PDA

View Full Version : Please help me build a Talashatora Swordsman



zugschef
2010-07-21, 06:10 PM
first off, thanks for taking your time reading this. what i'm asking for is not a theoretical build but a practically optimized build.

***

the basic build idea is based on an old character of mine, a half-drow monk with a major gold dragon bloodline who fought with a sword. i was completely new to the game, thus the horrible build.^^

later i came across a 3rd party product, the quintessential monk II, which features the ki swordsman, a pretty powerful prestige class which gives you a so-called ki sword. an at-will summonable sword which is wielded as a shortsword but increases in damage by leveling and gets enhancement boni (it becomes a brilliant energy weapon without the drawbacks^^). the ki swordsman also gets to ignore any damage reduction.

now with a little more knowledge and insight into the game i'd like to rebuild this character without the use of 3rd party products.

the perfect ability to duplicate the ki sword seems to be the psychic warrior's soulbound weapon acf (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), combined with the whirling steel strike feat (ecs) and the power weapon power (cpsi). that's why i use tashalatora to combine monk and psychic warrior.

the first 4 levels would probably look something like this:
1, monk1: open feat, monk bonus: monastic training (psywar), improved unarmed strike
2, psywar1: psywar bonus: open feat, soulbound weapon acf (weapon focus (longsword))
3, monk2: tashalatora, monk bonus: whirling steel strike
4, psywar2: soulbound weapon (longsword)

what i need help with is finding a viable fighting style. using improved trip and knock-down with polemaster is pretty obvious (2 lvls passive way monk), but it really has to be a sword which makes things much more complicated.^^ besides, i don't want to use metamorphosis (i think it's broken beyond reapair and i don't like the style) and tome of battle maneuvers.

the real problem is the choice between 2wf or 2h-power attack. 2wf doesn't mesh very well with expansion (dex penalty) and i've got no bonus damage (i'd have a lot of attacks though with greater flurry and 2wf and possibly snap kick), the 2h-power attack route is somewhat suboptimal with a longsword... i know robillar's gambit and karmic strike are nice in theory, but in my experience begging for hits leads to a fast and unheroic death.

i have also thought of using the scabbard as a buckler (i guess no dm would say no to that) but fighting with a buckler is somewhat suboptimal, too...

i'm also bothered by the fact that a character with expansion and monk unarmed damage would be stupid not to take advantage of that. i couldn't find any solutions in the rules for that, i've only got an idea for a (reasonable) houserule to solve it; i.e. letting a monk with a weapon enchanted with ki focus deal unarmed damage with this weapon. but it's only a work-around.

i hope you guys see where i'm stuck and have ideas to help me out.

Optimystik
2010-07-21, 07:06 PM
The whole point of Tashalatora is to give you the fists of a monk and the psychic powers of a manifesting class. If you're going to rely on your soulbound weapon instead, Tashalatora and Monastic Training are wasted feats.

zugschef
2010-07-22, 04:23 AM
The whole point of Tashalatora is to give you the fists of a monk and the psychic powers of a manifesting class. If you're going to rely on your soulbound weapon instead, Tashalatora and Monastic Training are wasted feats.
polemaster + tashalatora + knock-down + power attack makes an extremely capable tripper. i'd say you definitely can make a viable tashalatora-build without relying on unarmed strikes.

and they are not wasted feats because they represent the only possible way to emulate the ability to summon a sword by mind powers alone.

Master_Rahl22
2010-07-22, 10:11 AM
I think what Optimystik was saying is that you could just go with Psychic Warrior and save yourself 2 levels and 2 feats. Monk doesn't seem necessary to your desire for a guy with a mind sword, and like Optimystik said the primary purpose of Tashalatora is to progress Unarmed damage while gaining PP and powers as a Psychic Warrior. If you're not fighting unarmed, you don't need Monk at all.

Critical
2010-07-22, 10:19 AM
Aren't there some weapons that retain your unarmed damage? In MIC, IIRC...

And yes, Tashalatora is a wasted feat if you're not fighting unarmed.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 10:21 AM
Aren't there some weapons that retain your unarmed damage? In MIC, IIRC...

And yes, Tashalatora is a wasted feat if you're not fighting unarmed.

Two wasted feats - he needs Monastic Training for Tashalatora.
Not to mention 24 wasted PP and lost BAB (if not using fractional).


and they are not wasted feats because they represent the only possible way to emulate the ability to summon a sword by mind powers alone.

Tashalatora has nothing to do with Soulbound Weapon.

gallagher
2010-07-22, 10:29 AM
i once used a tashalatora build which used a three-section-staff, was a tripper and was actually pretty fun. the evasion and wis to armor helped on the defensive side of things, and used things like concealing amorphas and inertial armor to make me almost untouchable

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 10:30 AM
I'll have to agree with Optmystik here.
You just need soulbound weapon; go crazy from there.

EDIT: Oh, no, wait, I get it.
You want the AC bonus and flurry of blows while still progressing power selection. Well, it is a concept you could build around - I just think it's pretty weak mechanically.
If you can somehow get a scorpion kama as a longsword though, it'd be all business.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 10:38 AM
He can get Wis to AC without giving up PP and feats - just buy a monk's belt.

And he wants to be a swordsman - which are not monk weapons, thus he cannot flurry with them without Shou Disciple, which will cost him even more PP and ML.

Coidzor
2010-07-22, 10:45 AM
He can get Wis to AC without giving up PP and feats - just buy a monk's belt.

And he wants to be a swordsman - which are not monk weapons, thus he cannot flurry with them without Shou Disciple, which will cost him even more PP and ML.

Well, there was the feat from Eberron Campaign Setting that lets one flurry with the longsword. But, yeah, probably better dropping monk and doing a dip in spirit lion totem (for pounce) whirling frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm) barbarian instead...

Prime32
2010-07-22, 11:01 AM
This PrC may interest you. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) If you can't combine your two weapons then I suppose you could dual-wield them.

And yeah, there's no real reason for you to take monk levels (unless it's Cobra Strike monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike) to help meet the prereqs for that PrC :smalltongue:)

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 11:09 AM
Well, there was the feat from Eberron Campaign Setting that lets one flurry with the longsword. But, yeah, probably better dropping monk and doing a dip in spirit lion totem (for pounce) whirling frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm) barbarian instead...

Psywars dont need Pounce. Hustle, Psionic Lion's charge, Inconstant Location, Linked Dimension Swap etc.

There is just very little worth losing PP over, especially when they already get so few to begin with.

zugschef
2010-07-22, 12:01 PM
well the monk part is pretty mandatory for me... i personally hate to emulate class features with items (monk's belt) and the wis to ac bonus, evasion, fast movement, unarmed strikes and flurry of blows are features i really want to retain. this character is supposed to be a psionic monk fighting with a sword and not a psychic warrior. otherwise it would of course be much more effective to just solely take psychic warrior.

the way i see it now, there probably is no solution without some sort of work-around to this. fighting with longswords (and bastard- and greatswords as well) simply sucks in dnd...

Draz74
2010-07-22, 12:07 PM
So, go Monk 2/PsyWar X, but just don't bother with Monastic Training and Tashalatora unless you're going to use your unarmed attack sometimes.

This isn't a strong build, but it's totally workable.

2xMachina
2010-07-22, 12:10 PM
I think there's a 3rd party feat that makes your Mindblade a monk weapon, so you can flurry with them.

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 12:12 PM
I think there's a 3rd party feat that makes your Mindblade a monk weapon, so you can flurry with them.

It's not a third party feat, it's a kalashtar-only online official feat. Flowing Blade, I believe. It' in the Blades of the Quori article.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 12:14 PM
I think there's a 3rd party feat that makes your Mindblade a monk weapon, so you can flurry with them.

Well, a Soulbound Weapon isn't technically a Mind Blade - but I would houserule that it can benefit from Mind Blade feats.

zugschef
2010-07-23, 04:33 AM
good idea, thanks. =)

maybe i can work with that.

true_shinken
2010-07-24, 12:15 PM
good idea, thanks. =)

maybe i can work with that.

I have to say it again, zugschef - totally love your avatar.