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Tinydwarfman
2010-07-21, 08:16 PM
Why do people like it so much? Why do people not like it so much? I've heard wildly varying reviews of it, so I was hoping for a larger selection of reviews to average out the differences.

Prodan
2010-07-21, 08:18 PM
Do you like dragons?

Tinydwarfman
2010-07-21, 08:29 PM
No strong feelings one way or the other. (also no major spoilers please, in case I do run it.)

Lhurgyof
2010-07-21, 08:29 PM
What is this "Red Hand of Doom" of which you speak?

Powerfamiliar
2010-07-21, 08:34 PM
It's a simple iconic plot, and lots of fun. As a level 5-12 (I tihnk) adventure/campaign it also covers what many consider to be the most fun levels in 3.5 dnd.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-21, 08:43 PM
It's a simple iconic plot, and lots of fun. As a level 5-12 (I tihnk) adventure/campaign it also covers what many consider to be the most fun levels in 3.5 dnd.

That's apparently a misprint and it's intended to be from level 5-10

I find it fun but I get to play a homebrew version of Paladin and have a homebrew dragon mount now so that's probably a factor (Dragons are my favorite mythical creature)

EDIT: Plus, Paladins are my favorite class.

LordShotGun
2010-07-21, 08:46 PM
May people like/dislike it due to one unifying fact...It can and possibly will cause TPKs if your party is underoptimised OR it will be a massive cake walk if you have a party of power gamers.

From what I have heard, RHOD is best run using as few splat books as possible since it was a rather early made campaign in DnD's lifecycle and was not made with several quite common powergamer builds that have only been made possible by these later books.

Also, without giving TOO much away...Blaster AoE casters are NOT underpowered, you WILL need energy resistance of many types, and running away is ALWAYS an option unless its not...(if/when you play this campaign you will understand what I mean)

Lhurgyof
2010-07-21, 08:49 PM
May people like/dislike it due to one unifying fact...It can and possibly will cause TPKs if your party is underoptimised OR it will be a massive cake walk if you have a party of power gamers.

From what I have heard, RHOD is best run using as few splat books as possible since it was a rather early made campaign in DnD's lifecycle and was not made with several quite common powergamer builds that have only been made possible by these later books.

Also, without giving TOO much away...Blaster AoE casters are NOT underpowered, you WILL need energy resistance of many types, and running away is ALWAYS an option unless its not...(if/when you play this campaign you will understand what I mean)

Sounds like Dark Sun, 'cept that's level 1-60. xP

Sounds kinda fun. :smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2010-07-21, 08:53 PM
Oh, one question about the campaign. Spoilered for those here who haven't played it.

We just killed a red dragon. I don't remember its name but it was in the forest with the people on giant owls and it had a ring of minor cold resistance and we're about to go to "Rest". Anybody know how far into the campaign we are?

Powerfamiliar
2010-07-21, 08:55 PM
Oh, one question about the campaign. Spoilered for those here who haven't played it.

We just killed a red dragon. I don't remember its name but it was in the forest with the people on giant owls and it had a ring of minor cold resistance and we're about to go to "Rest". Anybody know how far into the campaign we are?

Rhest is not yet halfway through the adventure.
Edit: You might be playing with some modifications though, pretty sure there wasn't supposed to be a Red Dragon near Rhest.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-21, 09:02 PM
Rhest is not yet halfway through the adventure.
Edit: You might be playing with some modifications though, pretty sure there wasn't supposed to be a Red Dragon near Rhest.

Maybe. It appears that the red dragon was also way too strong for any normal group. We're level 10 and we only had a 20% chance of hitting the thing due to it having 32 AC and us not having a wizard. Although, as a class feature of my favorite Paladin ever I had a touch attack to deal with him

Malakar
2010-07-21, 09:27 PM
RHoD presents a unifed compelling theme across some of the widely regarded best levels of 3.5 D&D.

It has the widely regarded strongest monster as one of your main competition, with recommended power ups, and in situations designed very well to favor them.

It also has a host of memorable but incredibly weak and pathetic enemy NPCs.

As such, you play an epic D&D game, filled with tough fights you barely scrape by against powerful opposition, but lots of opportunities to prove how awesome and cool you are too.

The Plot is well done and cohesive, and never leaves you in a random "Damn, what do we do now?" moment, and involves about 1000 times less arbitrary DM fiat rules abuse than most modules.

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-21, 09:48 PM
As a DM, I liked RHoD because it was incredibly well-written. It had a lot of things in it that gave the DM options for what to do if the PCs do X, optional encounters, and a campaign timeline with notes on modifications based on the PCs' successes at certain tasks. Also, dragons!

Malakar
2010-07-21, 10:27 PM
It had a lot of things in it that gave the DM options for what to do if the PCs do X, optional encounters, and a campaign timeline with notes on modifications based on the PCs' successes at certain tasks.

This too, I think it would be more fun to play with a group good at seperating meta, or to tell your PCs straight up: You destroyed the Bridge, and now, the horde is set back X days or Y strength.

Because Red Hand does an excellent job of allowing character actions to really affect things in more than the obvious "X is dead" form, even if it is all DM fiat.

balistafreak
2010-07-21, 10:49 PM
Although, as a class feature of my favorite Paladin ever I had a touch attack to deal with him

Don't tell me it was the Dragon Killer. :smallamused:

Shivering Touch for those not in the know.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-21, 10:52 PM
Don't tell me it was the Dragon Killer. :smallamused:

Shivering Touch for those not in the know.

Nope. Deals divine damage equal to half my class level + my charisma modifier in D8s so 10d8 worth of damage just for spending a single turn undead attempt.

It still took a while to kill him and the ranger in the group dealt a critical which helped a lot

PId6
2010-07-21, 11:59 PM
Running it right now on PbP here. I'm certainly enjoying it so far, and it's fairly well-written. However, the enemies are, by default, kind of a cakewalk for optimized parties, hence why I've been optimizing most of them... quite a bit.

On a separate and completely unrelated note, I just PK'd my first PC this campaign! :smalltongue: It just happened at the Vraath Keep encounter.

Malakar
2010-07-22, 12:05 AM
On a separate and completely unrelated note, I just PK'd my first PC this campaign! :smalltongue: It just happened at the Vraath Keep encounter.

You didn't PK a PC.

PK can either be Party Kill, to indicate that a PC killed another PC, or as 2/3rd of the phrase TPK means Total Party Kill, as in the party is being killed. (Usually meaning, as opposed to TPK, the entire party but one individual.) Since you didn't party kill, and you are the DM, you didn't PK.

balistafreak
2010-07-22, 12:06 AM
He could be Penalty Kicking them. In the nads.

2xMachina
2010-07-22, 12:10 AM
PK = Player Killing in WoW/MMORPGs IIRC.

Though, usually you're a player yourself...

PId6
2010-07-22, 12:12 AM
Meh, terminology difference. I was referring to it in the generic "Player Kill" sense.

Saintheart
2010-07-22, 12:31 AM
I think the positive things about it is that it's one of the better-paced and better-written campaign games out there. The fluff isn't utterly interchangeable with other modules, it actually has an impact on the game. It freely admits the rough inferiority of many encounters given the party's intervention in the campaign world is more or less unexpected. It's the antithesis of the "trigger on entering room" dungeon; it builds in intensity. It also offers several different biomes, doesn't ever reduce itself to endless dungeoncrawling, and offers actual interesting skill-based challenges. The ticking time limit is also a plus; it gives a lot more immediacy to the idea that you've only got so long to get stuff done, which does impact on the 'endless time to build stuff' option.

I think it's also reeeeasonably customisable for more optimised parties if you know what you're doing; there's several good campaign journals on this site which give you a blow-by-blow for how to do it. And the climax of the adventure is just Made Of Awesome.

Probably its weak points are that one or two plot hooks are a little thin, but overall the game is somehow very good at making the players actually give a damn about the NPCs that inhabit the campaign universe.

Satyr
2010-07-22, 02:08 AM
I think it is pretty meh, compared to actually good adventure modules. It is terribly one-sided (kill this, kill that... as boring as watching bread), the overarching plot is uninspired and the one element which actually could have an impact on the game , the time table for the Evil Horde of Evil progression, has too little impact on the game to really care.

It's playable, but way too one sided and flat to be very interesting in the long run, mostly to the lack of variation in the challenges.

AslanCross
2010-07-22, 03:39 AM
May people like/dislike it due to one unifying fact...It can and possibly will cause TPKs if your party is underoptimised OR it will be a massive cake walk if you have a party of power gamers.

From what I have heard, RHOD is best run using as few splat books as possible since it was a rather early made campaign in DnD's lifecycle and was not made with several quite common powergamer builds that have only been made possible by these later books.

Also, without giving TOO much away...Blaster AoE casters are NOT underpowered, you WILL need energy resistance of many types, and running away is ALWAYS an option unless its not...(if/when you play this campaign you will understand what I mean)

My party was not heavily optimized, but it was mostly a cakewalk for the first couple of encounters. Then I started tweaking everything. It turned out to be challenging, epic and memorable for everyone.

I didn't find it to be a flat all-combat hackfest; some of the built-in roleplaying options were dealt with interestingly by my party. The Ghostlord terrified them, and they even found the interactions with the elves quite interesting.

If there's any part that kind of degenerates to hack-and-slash, it's the final dungeon.

Simba
2010-07-22, 03:58 AM
I started as a player in 2 RHoD groups here on the forums. One did not even start but was dropped shortly after the characters were accepted, the other one got a few pages before ending. I would finally like to play it to the end for once. I liked what I saw sofar. You can always pimp the little guys if you feel they are too weak.

FuryOfMetal
2010-07-22, 05:33 AM
So is this a downloadable module or do i buy it from a shop?

Eldariel
2010-07-22, 05:47 AM
Buyable. And the reason it's so well-liked? It's a well-written module. Sure, difficulty needs to be adjusted and there's one horribly written place in it, but the shell and the ways in which it engages the players are excellent. The story is quite compelling and it just works.

There have been a few extremely good Campaign Journals on RHoD here, which certainly increases the stocks. Quick list:
Saph's Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94243)
Kjones's Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal Part I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100257) & Part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123078)
AslanCross's Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110022)

Birstel
2010-07-22, 07:45 AM
On a separate and completely unrelated note, I just PK'd my first PC this campaign! :smalltongue: It just happened at the Vraath Keep encounter.

You're about on my pace then, I've had to increase levels on a few things, since I have 10-13 PCs depending on who shows up, but I've killed 2 PCs so far.

Bullrushing the stone shaping cleric off the bridge was fun!

kjones
2010-07-22, 08:09 AM
Thanks for the shoutout, Eldariel - I can state with confidence that my campaign journal is, in fact, excellent. :smallbiggrin:

I'll sum up my overall thoughts on the strengths of the module by quoting myself:


Unlike many other modules, the Red Hand of Doom module does a good job of not assuming that the players will take the straight-and-narrow path, and to its credit, it provides many provisions for what to do with wandering players, or those who miss a plot token or two along the way. However, the Vale is a big place, and many areas are simply not well fleshed out. I'm thinking specifically of the Hammerfast Holds here, but there are many others. Again, recall that this module should be viewed as a framework, and take the opportunity to flesh out small towns, minor NPCs, and random encounters on your own. Or be good at improvising, and remain consistent. If the party insists on wandering about the Vale, however, relate everything back to the coming of the Red Hand. Sooner or later, they'll get the picture.

Emmerask
2010-07-22, 08:13 AM
Why do people like it so much? Why do people not like it so much? I've heard wildly varying reviews of it, so I was hoping for a larger selection of reviews to average out the differences.

Compared to other d&d modules I tried it was quite good compared to what other gaming systems have to offer especially dark eye it is simply lacking both in detail, complexity and variety, its like comparing wheel of time and a song of ice and fire to eragon :smalltongue:. sadly most gaming systems with awesome story modules/campaigns have the worst mechanics, wonder why that is?:smalleek:

balistafreak
2010-07-22, 08:28 AM
You're about on my pace then, I've had to increase levels on a few things, since I have 10-13 PCs depending on who shows up -

Good lord, man, how do you keep things neat? :smalleek:

... are you a kindergarten teacher? It's the only possible explanation.

Satyr
2010-07-22, 08:37 AM
sadly most gaming systems with awesome story modules/campaigns have the worst mechanics, wonder why that is?

No idea, but then I like the TDE rules in their bizarre overloaded badness. Even though no one stops you to take the TDE adventures and play it, with something like Gurps or the Unisystem; it's just more work.

Hell, one day I write a complete DSA->Unisystem conversion, just for that purpose.

I also think that the overall quality of the TDE adventures (which reach from pretty bad to epiphany) has changed the perception of what a good adventure module should look like and pretty much spoil German role players in this regard which also changes the perception of RHOD because of a different framework of references. Compared to other D&D modules, it's quite okay; compared to the TDE standard, it is mediocre.

Birstel
2010-07-22, 10:10 AM
Good lord, man, how do you keep things neat? :smalleek:

... are you a kindergarten teacher? It's the only possible explanation.

I do feel like a kindergarten teacher sometimes, but it isn't as hard as it could be. All my players are or were in the military, so they respond to yelling very well. :smallamused:

I also pre-roll initiative for NPCs, and give players 10 seconds to tell me what they are going to do. I still takes me a long time to get through things though. We've been playing for 4 sessions and they just finished the bridge encounter.

Draz74
2010-07-22, 12:18 PM
So is this a downloadable module or do i buy it from a shop?

I got it on eBay for $4.

Karsh
2010-07-22, 01:11 PM
Chapter 4 is really the part that makes the game exciting to run. The way everything comes together and the brutal progression of the whole thing is just exciting as hell.

Chapter 5 is a comparative letdown, to be honest.

Having run the RHoD game in its entirety, I have to say that it's a good module for a party that sticks mostly to core and doesn't optimize too much.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-22, 01:55 PM
I really REALLY wanted to Run RHoD this summer, but for some reason amazon couldn't ship to where I live:smallfrown::smallsigh::smallannoyed::smallmad ::smallfurious:... might try on e-bay now that Draz mentioned it though

Tinydwarfman
2010-07-22, 02:51 PM
If I were to run RHoD with only 2 players, both relatively high-op, using non-core stuff, would it be about right? We debated about making it gestalt to give each character a bit more to do party role wise. Good or bad idea?

Draz74
2010-07-22, 02:55 PM
If I were to run RHoD with only 2 players, both relatively high-op, using non-core stuff, would it be about right? We debated about making it gestalt to give each character a bit more to do party role wise. Good or bad idea?

I'd say it should be workable with Gestalt. Without Gestalt ... hmmm, depends on the party playstyle, but it seems they'd have a hard time just having helpful Skills covered, for example.

PId6
2010-07-22, 02:57 PM
If it's two players, definitely do gestalt at the very least. With so few players, it's not so much the difficulty of the adventure, but rather that it's very easy for luck to knock out the entire party. There's also issues that the PCs may not be able to fill every roll that they need. Gestalt would definitely help with the latter, and you should consider giving them a cohort or DMPC to help with the former (so a single crit or fumble doesn't wipe out half the team).

Darkxarth
2010-07-22, 03:24 PM
I DM'd the entire game with two PCs: a level 7 utility Wizard and a level 7 archery Ranger. Obviously, the 2 extra levels made kept them from needing to be Gestalt, and it worked out pretty evenly. It helps that the enemy almost always has the benefit of the action economy.

The only places I found that I had difficulty with were the major combats. I suggest making sure that at least a couple of NPCs are present for at least the following (MAJOR spoilers below):
The battle against the Half-Dragon Behir
The battle against the Red Dragon
The battle to hold the street in Brindol
The battle against Wyrmlord Kharn and his crew (pretty much the whole Battle of Brindol could use Jorr, Trellara, and/or a Lion(s) of Brindol tagging along with the heroes)
The battle against High Wyrmlord Azarr Kul and the Blue Dragon-Demons
The battle against the Aspect of Tiamat

Other than that, my two PCs (plus Jorr who was there the whole time) only died once and managed to save the Vale from the Red Hand.[/spoiler]

Anyway, it was a lot of fun and the campaign went on using a couple of minor NPCs from the module to spur on the next adventure.