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View Full Version : Remastered and reskined 4e? (Want feedback on a rogue idea.)



Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-27, 09:53 PM
4e, despite the hate, is actually a decent system, but as far as portraying traditional D&D in a way thats true to the game's roots it's lacking. Most people accuse it of being too much like WoW and an mmo with all the powers stuff, but for me, the powers system actually is unique and enjoyable, but put to better use portraying a genera other then high fantasy...anime. Shonen anime in particular.

I know some of you may mention mutants and masterminds as a good game to replicate anime, and while I agree on that, something about having a bunch of named powers and melee fighters warriors capable of feats so superhuman they border on magical just really get me in that Dragon Ball Z kind of mindset.

Thus, I had an odd idea, what if I turned 4e as an anime based PnP game? It would include traditional anime races such as catgirls and Yoaki/Demons s alongside the typical humans and feature classes such as superpowered martial artists, magical girls and other such iconic anime character types. It started thinking of that but have yet to work on any of the homebrew for it. I am mainly wondering if all of you think that an anime version of 4e is even worth the trouble making before I even try to homebrew anything for it?

cupkeyk
2010-07-27, 10:55 PM
Catgirls. The two shifter races are good races for cat and dog people. The longtooth shifter is leonine while the razorclaw shifter is lupine, so they are the catgirl and the dogboy respectively.

Mando Knight
2010-07-28, 12:49 AM
Got it backwards, I think. Longtooth are related to werewolves, Razorclaw are related to pantera-based lycanthropes of some kind.

Kurald Galain
2010-07-28, 03:42 AM
This seems fitting...

Ka Me Ha Me Haaaaa! (monk at-will)
You spend a minute gathering your ki in a massively epic ball of energy, then irresistibly throw it at your opponent. The sheer force of the explosion creates a big crater, obliterates the landscape, and is capable of reducing a whole mountain to rubble.
Standard action, range 5
Attack: wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + wisdom modifier damage
Effect: the squares your target occupies are lightly obscured with smoke until the end of your next turn.

n00b killa
2010-07-28, 07:57 AM
This seems fitting...

Ka Me Ha Me Haaaaa! (monk at-will)
You spend a minute gathering your ki in a massively epic ball of energy, then irresistibly throw it at your opponent. The sheer force of the explosion creates a big crater, obliterates the landscape, and is capable of reducing a whole mountain to rubble.
Standard action, range 5
Attack: wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + wisdom modifier damage
Effect: the squares your target occupies are lightly obscured with smoke until the end of your next turn.

Make it an encounter power and you are pretty much there

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-28, 10:07 AM
It's quite easy to do. A friend of mine redid an entire superhero module (made for some obscure system from the 90's) in 4E, and used pregen characters for the PCs

I was The Spaniard - a gunslinging hero who used the guns of his father.

He was actually an Elven Archery Ranger, with renamed powers :smalltongue:

Moral: go wild. So long as you don't feel the itch to homebrew race or class mechanics, it's dead simple.

Faleldir
2010-07-28, 01:28 PM
This seems fitting...

Ka Me Ha Me Haaaaa! (monk at-will)
You spend a minute gathering your ki in a massively epic ball of energy, then irresistibly throw it at your opponent. The sheer force of the explosion creates a big crater, obliterates the landscape, and is capable of reducing a whole mountain to rubble.
Standard action, range 5
Attack: wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + wisdom modifier damage
Effect: the squares your target occupies are lightly obscured with smoke until the end of your next turn.

A secondary stat vs. AC attack that doesn't have the Weapon or Implement keyword? It will never hit!

Bolt Of Fire
Monk Attack 1
Useless flavor text.
At-Will, Fire, Implement, Psionic
Standard action
Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d12 + DEX fire damage. Your Flurry Of Blows originates from the target's square and deals fire damage.
Level 21: 2d12 + DEX damage.

Kurald Galain
2010-07-28, 01:35 PM
A secondary stat vs. AC attack that doesn't have the Weapon or Implement keyword? It will never hit!

Methinks thou missest the pointeth here :smallbiggrin:

Gruffard
2010-07-28, 01:44 PM
Methinks thou missest the pointeth here :smallbiggrin:

lol, I got it.

But yea now that you mention it, BESM d20 doesn't seem like it be hard to convert/overlay alot of the class ideas onto 4E classes with minor/no tweaks.

mobdrazhar
2010-07-28, 04:35 PM
Got it backwards, I think. Longtooth are related to werewolves, Razorclaw are related to pantera-based lycanthropes of some kind.

correct... so catgirls = Razorclaw and dogboy = Longtooth

9mm
2010-07-28, 04:55 PM
This seems fitting...

Ka Me Ha Me Haaaaa! (monk at-will)
You spend a week gathering your ki in a massively epic ball of energy, then irresistibly throw it at your opponent. The sheer force of the explosion creates a big crater, obliterates the landscape, and is capable of reducing a whole mountain to rubble.
Standard action, range 5
Attack: wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2d6 + wisdom modifier damage
Effect: the squares your target occupies are lightly obscured with smoke until the end of your next turn.

Fixed to represent actual show lengths.

Honestly, 4e isn't a bad game, but using the system to do something else would work very well.

Project_Mayhem
2010-07-28, 05:01 PM
Make it work with Diclonius or Lucy will tear your head off

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 02:00 PM
Yeah...I was actually going to make new powers rather then reskin the current ones. Mainly because the current powers do not assume high technology sans the artificer, so character types such as gunslingers, androids/robots and other such tech-reliant character types cannot be replicated with the current 4e classes unless you seriously revise exsisting powers.(At which at that point they may as well be new powers since say changing a warlock blast to being dex based(to represent an attack with a gun) instead of cha based would be fundementally altering the power.) Also, many classes, like the fighter, are uncommon(but not unheard of) in anmie. I mean, most physical characters in anime use martial arts as appose to medvial weapons and you will be hard pressed to find a shonen hero walking around in heavy armor unless their a samurai, and even then their more likely to dress in traditional feudal robes then the heavy samurai armor.(See Samurai X/Kenshin)

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 02:07 PM
Yeah...I was actually going to make new powers rather then reskin the current ones. Mainly because the current powers do not assume high technology sans the artificer, so character types such as gunslingers, androids/robots and other such tech-reliant character types cannot be replicated with the current 4e classes unless you seriously revise exsisting powers.(At which at that point they may as well be new powers since say changing a warlock blast to being dex based(to represent an attack with a gun) instead of cha based would be fundementally altering the power.) Also, many classes, like the fighter, are uncommon(but not unheard of) in anmie. I mean, most physical characters in anime use martial arts as appose to medvial weapons and you will be hard pressed to find a shonen hero walking around in heavy armor unless their a samurai, and even then their more likely to dress in traditional feudal robes then the heavy samurai armor.(See Samurai X/Kenshin)
You're going about this wrong.

Don't pick a class and then pick an archetype to bend it to; pick an archetype and attach a class to it.

For example, a sci-fi gunslinger should be an Archery Ranger. Multi-attacks, uses DEX, is highly mobile - done! Why choose Warlock? If it's the energy types, just use the "Flaming Sword" template and say "all damage from this weapon is X."

The point of using 4e is that the fluff can be attached to existing crunch. If you're going to make up new crunch too there's no reason to use 4e at all!

EDIT: OK, let's break it down. Give us 5 anime archetypes you'd like to use for the "core classes" of the hypothetical anime game. We'll link them to 4E classes as examples for how this can be done.

Kurald Galain
2010-07-29, 02:24 PM
EDIT: OK, let's break it down. Give us 5 anime archetypes you'd like to use for the "core classes" of the hypothetical anime game. We'll link them to 4E classes as examples for how this can be done.

We will? :smallbiggrin:

Let's see. Prodigous little child that is way too good at card games. Humongous mecha with a ridiculous missile battery. Fiery-tempered magical winged catgirl. Emo ninja. And long-yellow-haired martial artist that can cause the entire planet to explode.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 02:50 PM
We will? :smallbiggrin:

Let's see. Prodigous little child that is way too good at card games. Humongous mecha with a ridiculous missile battery. Fiery-tempered magical winged catgirl. Emo ninja. And long-yellow-haired martial artist that can cause the entire planet to explode.
(1) Summoner Wizard
(2) Archer Ranger - we just scale up the battlemat to Giant Mecha size :smallamused:
(3) Wild Sorcerer
(4) Rogue or Assassin
(5) Anything at Epic :smalltongue:

EDIT: Seriously though. The point I was trying to make is that saying "oh, D&D doesn't have guys who use technology so we need to change everything" is missing the whole point of refluffing the system. When you refluff something you keep the mechanics the same, but you change the justification for those mechanics.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 03:06 PM
Yeah, but you still forget armor is RARE in anime and if anybody has armor they are usually a villain. So I want to know, how would you get around the fact heroes usually don't wear armor, even light armor, when trying to convert the fighter a robe wearing swordsman or the cleric into a healing priestess?

Also, I don't know all the 4e classes because of a lack of books, so if there ARE robe wearing healing and fighting classes I apologize for my ignorance on the subject.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 03:09 PM
Yeah, but you still forget armor is RARE in anime and if anybody has armor they are usually a villain. So I want to know, how would you get around the fact heroes usually don't wear armor, even light armor, when converting say the fighter into a ROBE wearing samurai swordsman or the cleric into a healing priestess?
Rename the "armor."

Think in DBZ - folks are wearing "robes" all the time which supposedly have special powers. Or their costumes are supposed to be extra-strong.

In the alternative, you can replace the armor slot with "techniques" or "charms" or what-have-you. It's really not hard.

For example: Scale Mail (+7 AC, -1 SPD) Fighter = Fighter with Sakura Robes (+7 AC, -1 SPD). Why the reduced speed? Sakura Robes are cumbersome!

Caphi
2010-07-29, 03:11 PM
Yeah, but you still forget armor is RARE in anime

Anything at all with a transforming hero, anything at all with a giant robot, and Dragonball Z, just for starters?

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 03:16 PM
Yeah, that just enforces my point. I misworded my ealer statement. My issue with armor is that it's usually reserved for bad guys. Case in point, DBZ. Only the villains had any kind of armor sans vegeta, but he stoped wearing it after a while as well. As for transforming characters, most of them just get cooler looking cloths, not giant heavy armor. Case in point, magic girls. There ARE rare exceptions to this such as Saint Seya where the good guys actually get armor, but thats not the norm for anime heroes. Most of the time heroes wear cloths while armor is reserved for evil overlord and his minions.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 03:18 PM
Yeah, that just enforces my point. I misworded my ealer statement. My issue is armor is usually for bad guys in anime. Case in point, DBz. Only the villains(freza's men) had any kind of armor. As for transforming characters, most of them just get cooler looking cloths, not giant heavy armor. Case in point, magic girls. There ARE rare exceptions to this such as Saint Seya where the good guys actually get armor, but thats not the norm for anime heroes. Most of the time heroes don't wear big heavy armor, it's usually reserved for evil overlords and their minions.
Right. So the Bad Guys wear Scale Armor (+7 AC, -1 SPD) while the Good Guys wear Sakura Robes (+7 AC, -1 SPD).

Problem solved. Behold the Power of Aura Refluffing!

The Glyphstone
2010-07-29, 03:24 PM
Or just simply the power of their Manly Fighting Spirit (+7 AC, -1 SPD) for completely unarmored warriors; they simply shrug off wounds that would fell lesser warriors, but unconsciously check their advance slightly instead of rushing headlong into battle. Also, being tickled by a rust monster makes them laugh uproariously, which is humiliating and thus weakens their MFS temporarily.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 03:24 PM
Yeah, but good guys in anime also rarely use shields. So what would shields be? I can't really think of anything beyond some kind of magical power, but then that means that the swordsman type characters all have magic when some swordsman in anime are clearly mundane. So do you have any mundane supstitute for shields?

Caphi
2010-07-29, 03:26 PM
There ARE rare exceptions to this such as Saint Seya where the good guys actually get armor

I don't think I got my point across.

Most shows where the hero has a combat form have armor.

Most shows based on large machine battles have armor, even if you don't count the mecha itself.

There (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TekkamanBlade) are (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DetonatorOrgun) plenty (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Guyver) of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha) shows (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RockmanEXE) that (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RoninWarriors) feature (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BubblegumCrisis) main characters in armor suits.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-29, 03:26 PM
Even more potent Manly Fighting Spirit? Special training in a long-lost kung fu technique that lets them parry attacks with their open palm?

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 03:29 PM
Yeah, but good guys in anime also rarely use shields. So what would shields be? I can't really think of anything beyond some kind of magical power, but then that means that the swordsman type characters all have magic when some swordsman in anime are clearly mundane. So do you have any mundane supstitute for shields?
Gauntlets. Sais. What-have-you.

As for magic, just use the Inherent Bonus option and grant Boons to simulate Special Martial Arts.

I don't intend any offense, but you really should buy a one-month subscription to DDI. It's $10 (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/subscription.aspx) and gives you and 3 friends (permanently)

- a Character Builder program, updated with everything WotC has released to that date.

- Adventure Tools, which includes a Monster Builder program that has every monster WotC has released to that date

You also get access to the rules text of everything WotC has released via the Rules Compendium - though that access expires once your subscription expires.

Once you look these things over, you should have a better idea as to how easy it is to do what you're looking to do.

EDIT: the reason you want there to still be equipment for weapons & armor is to make it easier for the ancilliary game mechanics (enchantments, item slots) to continue to work. All you need is an item that occupies the same space and is thematically appropriate - which, fortunately, is really not hard to do at all.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 03:31 PM
Yeah, the only 4e books I have are the player's handbook, DM's Guide and Monster manuel...I don't have much info. Also, DDI is too much money for me, espcially since I'm still just a collage student and the only job I hold is part time. It's not a lot of money, I know, but most of my extra money gose to food, books and school and I would rather not take on an extra expense. What little I have left I save up or spend on MTG cards once in a blue moon(Though I have not bought any cards for a while now.) I happen to have a lot of 3.5 books simply because when 3.5 was being supported I was in high school, and thus I did not have collage related expenses to deal with at that time.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 03:48 PM
Yeah, the only 4e books I have are the player's handbook, DM's Guide and Monster manuel...I don't have much info. Also, DDI is too much money for me, espcially since I'm still just a collage student and the only job I hold is part time. It's not a lot of money, I know, but most of my extra money gose to food, books and school and I would rather not take on an extra expense. What little I have left I save up or spend on MTG cards once in a blue moon(Though I have not bought any cards for a while now.) I happen to have a lot of 3.5 books simply because when 3.5 was being supported I was in high school, and thus I did not have collage related expenses to deal with at that time.
A one-time payment of $10 is too expensive for you? :smallconfused:

I mean, if it really is, take up a collection from 3 of your friends. If you can't afford $2.50 a person, maybe you should sell off the MM?

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 03:52 PM
It's only a one time payment? I was under the impression that I had to pay $10.00 per month? If it's a one time payment I can easily get it. But if I have to pay any kind of monthly payment thats $10.00 or more it's a no-no. I feel like an idot now. *sighs*

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-29, 03:56 PM
It's only a one time payment? I was under the impression that I had to pay $10.00 per month? If it's a one time payment I can easily get it. But if I have to pay any kind of monthly payment thats $10.00 or more it's a no-no. I feel like an idot now. *sighs*
Like I said, $10 gets you the Character Builder (a program that has everything you need to make a character) and Monster Builder (a program that has everything you need to make a monster - including every monster published by WotC) permanently. You just can't update them without a valid subscription - but you can shell out another $10 next year to get all the updates and errata between now and then.

A valid license also allows 3 other computers to download updated versions of both Builders.

The only thing that needs a live description is the Rules Comphendium but most of the rules are in the PHB & DMG (which you have), the Errata can be accessed for free, and anything you're missing you can print out off of the Rules Comphendium during your live month and keep in a binder.

EDIT: you can download a trial Character Builder here. (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Tool.aspx?x=dnd/4new/tool/characterbuilder) It only has some of the updates (through PHB II IIRC) and only goes up to Level 3 but it'll give you an idea what it can do.

Also - be careful to disable the auto-renew when you order DDI. It's a bit tricky to do, but all it requires is some dilligence.

Tengu_temp
2010-07-29, 06:31 PM
I've participated in three anime-style 4e games: a mecha game, a Disgaea game, and a Touhou game. The system worked well for all of them, with no/minimal changes.

Arbane
2010-07-29, 10:36 PM
I've participated in three anime-style 4e games: a mecha game, a Disgaea game, and a Touhou game. The system worked well for all of them, with no/minimal changes.

That sounds interesting. How did you manage some of the really whacky powers the Touhou girls have?

Tengu_temp
2010-07-29, 10:56 PM
PCs are original characters, without Yukari-level crazy powers. Combat works more or less normally, just with focus on ranged attacks.