PDA

View Full Version : The Thanaturge: A New Twist on Necromancy [3.5 WIP][PEACH, APRICOT, WATERMELON]



Dencero
2010-08-17, 07:48 PM
NOTE: THIS WAS SUBMITTED BEFORE I WANTED TO! WAS WORKING ON IT AND SUBMITTED BY ACCIDENT. HELP IS APPRECIATED.

Okay now, before I begin, I would like to say this: The class itself was inspired by a Neverwinter Nights Module called Bone Kenning: The Art of the Thanaturge, created by Wes Lewis (SOURCE: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.detail&id=392) So, about a year and a half ago, I thought: This would be a great concept for a D and D class. So, I tried to get a hold of him, see if it was alright if I tried my hand at it, just as a common courtesy. But it appears he dropped off the map and my attempts for contact were fruitless. So, I went ahead and created the class. And in the same fashion I did with the Re-animator, it became very complex. But from what I've seen here, not everyone like the amount of customization that I so do love. Now, enough babble. I present to you:

The Thanaturge


http://www.mythinglinks.org/Dianne~necromancy~r35darkd.jpg
-Two Thanaturges of the Rynis family, dealing with a vengeful spirit

"Those who confuse Thanaturgy with Necromancy are truly ignorant of our art and what we represent"
-Andarus Amraphen

A Thanaturge is often confused with a Necromancer and on the surface, this is understandable. Both have power over the dead, but that is where the similarity ends. Necromancer's channel negative energy to animate the dead to serve their ends. Thanaturges take a different route. They weave the energy that is imprinted on the body, the very power that the soul leaves behind, and gives the corpse another chance at life. Thanaturges take the husks of the dead and do what seems to be the impossible: Create new life.

Making a Thanaturge: A Thanaturge is born, not made. Their power does not come from studying arcane texts or channeling the power of the gods. It is something new altogether, a power that comes directly from their bloodline. While most, if not all Thanaturges are born into Thanaturgic Families, there are rare instances where a child will show signs that they possess the power. Free Thanaturges have more choice over their decisions and what they do with their lives, but those born into families find resources and abilities that are exclusive to that particular family.

Abilities: Charisma is the most important ability of the Thanaturge, influencing how many thralls they can control and how hard their curses are to resist. Intelligence meanwhile dictates how powerful these thralls are and the strength of their regents.

Races: Any race has the capacity to become a Thanaturge. Although, Humans are more apt to become Thanaturges.

Alignment: Thanaturges are different when it comes to alignment. They live by a personal code that dictates how they use their powers and their alignment. The alignment and code of a free Thanaturge are usually his and his alone, but Thanaturgic Families pass down their code from generation to generation and expect everyone in their family to obey it. As an example, a Lawful Good Thanaturge might be dedicated to rooting out any evil undead they come across, while a True Neutral Thanaturge might not care what he does or who he does it to, as long as it furthers his research. If a Thanaturge breaks their code, then they find that they are mentally conflicted and lose their abilities and most atone for it. For example, the Lawful Good Thanaturge might have been hunted by a town that viewed him as evil and he decided to let the crypt of ghouls go unchecked, letting them ravage the town. He would then lose his powers. Or the True Neutral Thanaturge might become emotionally attached to a specific person in a town and jeopardizes his research by approaching them, thus losing his powers. The Thanaturgic Families show what is the basis for a code and examples of breaking it. It is up to the DM to decide what qualifies for breaking a code.

Characteristics: Thanaturges harbor great reserves of energy that is unknown in origin, even to them. The devout call their powers demonic and some Thanaturges actually agree with this claim. In reality, their power is not arcane, divine, holy, or demonic. Thanaturges have access to invocation, much like a Warlock, but possesses invocations that are unique to the Thanaturge. Thanaturges rely heavily on their Incant of Reanimation to create thralls to protect them in battle.

Religion: As a rule of thumb, most Thanaturges stay away from religious worship for a variety of reasons. This doesn't mean that they don't pay homage to the gods, necessarily. Some Thanaturges work in tandem with some religious orders, for good or ill. How a free Thanaturge interacts with religion is completely up to the Thanaturge in question, but Thanaturgic Families usually have some view about religion that the Thanaturge takes with them.

Background: Thanaturges come from all walks of life, from the Noble Amraphens, to the savage Vorunds, and even the reclusive Tureia. The lowliest peasant, to the highest king can be a Thanaturge.

Thanaturges and Other Classes: Thanaturges are the most flexible when it comes to relations with other classes. Their highly varied natures and backgrounds make it easier to assimilate into a party if they can find common ground. Thanaturges value strength and intellect, along with the resourcefulness of the individuals. Wizards, Sorcerers, and other spellcasters tend to be intrigued by a Thanaturge's power, understanding it for what it is and can be. A Thanaturge will definitely have disagreements with a cleric who sees the use of any undead as evil, but might see eye to eye with a Paladin who finds a Thanaturge who wishes to root out mindless and evil undead. Necromancers can either see a Thanaturge as a brother in arms, an obstacle, or a source of potential power. Thanaturges try to keep their abilities close to their chest and only reveals his true powers to those he believes he can trust.

Role: Thanaturges are controllers. They create undead to protect themselves and their allies and utilize powerful invocations to slip into the role of a spellcaster.

Hit Die: d6

Starting Gold: As Wizard unless stated otherwise


Class Features

Class Skills: The Thanaturge's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Alchemy, Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana, History, Nobility & Royalty, Religion)

Skill Points at First Level: (5 + Int Mod) X 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: Int + 5
Table 1.1
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Invocations

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Incant of Reanimation, Invocation (Least), Thanaturgic Dismissal, Thanaturgic Retribution 1d8|1

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Alchemical Process|2

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Thanaturgic Rite|2

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Dreaming Darkly, Thanaturgic Retribution 2d8|3

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Secrets of the Bone|3

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Invocation (Least or Lesser)|4

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|Thanaturgic Rite, Thanaturgic Retribution 3d8|4

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6|Thanaturgic Mystery|5

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6|Secrets of the Flesh|5

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|The Path, Thanaturgic Retribution 4d8|6

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|Invocations (Least, Lesser, Great)|7

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Thanaturgic Rite|7

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Thanaturgic Mystery, Thanaturgic Retribution 5d8|8

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|Secrets of the Mind|8

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+5|
+9|The Choice|9

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Invocation (Least, Lesser, Great, Dark) Thanaturgic Retribution 6d8|10

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Thanaturgic Rite|10

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Thanaturgic Mystery|11

19th|
+14/+8/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Secrets of the Soul, Thanaturgic Retribution 7d8|11

20th|
+15/+9/+4|
+12|
+6|
+12|True Incant of Reanimation|12[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
A Thanaturge is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor, but not shields.

Invocations: Thanturges have access to a list of Invocations and are used in the same manner as a Warlock of the same level. See Figure 1.2 for the list of Invocations a Thanaturge has access to.

Incant of Reanimation: Using a special rite, a Thanaturge may raise a single body as a thrall under his control. The rite takes a full round action to preform and provokes an attack of opportunity. A Thanaturge can control only a total HD of your Thanaturge level x 4 worth of undead creatures and may only use this ability on on humanoids. Any undead you would create that you could not control becomes mindless, unless stated otherwise. At first level, the Incant creates Bone Thralls. A Bone Thrall is created by using the bones of a deceased humanoid creature. If used on a body with flesh still on it, the flesh melts away. A Bone Thrall functions exactly like a Skeleton of the humanoid creature used, with the following stipulations: A Thrall is very hard to turn. If they attempt to turn or rebuke any kind of Thrall, the Thrall is treated as being 3 HD more than what it really is. Also, a Bone Thrall is in the sense, an automaton and requires constant instructions. You order the Bone Thrall by using a free action, but can only give a single order every turn. You may use X free actions per turn to order your Thralls, where X is your Charisma modifier. A Bone Thrall follows instructions as listed on table 1.3. At 5th, 9th, 14th, and 19th level, the Incant changes and allows you to Reanimate stronger and smarter forms of thralls.

Thanaturgic Dismissal: Thanaturges may use the power of their bloodline to turn or rebuke undead creatures, much like a cleric. A Thanaturge acts like a neutral Cleric of the same level, with the choice to Turn or Rebuke undead. But instead of staying with a single choice, at the beginning of the day, a Thanaturge may choose whether he turns or rebukes by spending 1 hour meditating. Once chosen for the day, the Thanaturge cannot change their choice. A Thanaturge may attempt to turn or Rebuke the Thrall of a fellow Thanaturge without difficulty.

Thanaturgic Retribution: A Thanaturge's power is strange and powerful. With the right practice it can be harnessed and released to inflict pain on those who would threaten you. Thanaturgic Retribution functions exactly like a Warlock's Eldritch Blast and deals damage as listed on Table 1.1. It can be modified, but not with Blast Shapes or Essences. A Thanaturge can mold and shape their Thanaturgic Retribution with special Invocations called Reactions. Only a single reaction may be used on Thanaturgic Retribution at any given time.

Alchemical Process: Thanaturges are known for their ability to create a wide range of chemicals with a variety of effects. You may use the Alchemy skill to create the following potions:

Mandrake Root Extract
Market Cost: 20 gp
Alchemy DC: 10
Description: Alchemical concoction that restores the body.
Mandrake has been known for its curative properties and in the hands of a Thanaturge, the properties are amplified. The user is healed 1d8 +The Thanaturge's intelligence modifier worth of hit points. After an hour, the potions side effects take effect. The user takes half the damage healed after the hour that cannot be healed magically. After 8 hours of rest, the user is healed and the hit points come back.

Pokeweed Extract
Market Cost: 15 gp
Alchemy DC: 13
Description: Pokeweed has been known to incite violent bouts of vomiting and diarrhea when handled wrong. But when used correctly, it can be used to cleanse the body of disease and poison. When ingested, it causes the user to become nauseated for one turn. On the following turn, they are cured of any and all disease and poison, but are sickened for the next 24 hours.

Passionflower Sedative
Market Cost: 16 gp
Alchemy DC: 13
Description: Passionflower is known for its aromatic properties, but not paralytic effects when distilled properly. When ingested, the user feels no outward effects for the three turns. Afterwords, it takes effect, causing paralysis for 1d6 turns on a failed fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 Thanaturge's Level+Thanaturge's Int Modifier). The Extract may be hidden in food as a poison and is detected the same.

Goldenseal Powder:
Market Cost: 35 gp
Alchemy DC: 17
Description:
Goldenseal in powder form can be used to protect the user from any harmful inhalants that they may come across, everything from mundane to magical. The powder must be inhaled through the nose for the powder to take effect. The user is dazed for one turn afterwords, but are immune to any substances or spells that could be harmful when inhaled. The powder's effects last for 6 Hours.

Wild Quinine Solution:
Market Cost: 40 gp
Alchemy DC: 16
Description:
Wild Quinine's properties can be used to enhance the healing process. When injected into the body, it bestows fast healing 1 for 1d4 rounds + the Thanaturge's Intelligence modifier. Injecting the solution is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity. If the user gains more hit points then they normally have, the hit points become temporary hit points. At the end of the duration, if the user still has temporary hit points, they lose the temporary hit points and take damage equal to the temporary hit points.

Yarrow Salve:
Market Cost: 75 gp
Alchemy DC: 18
Yarrow's ability to heal the body is renowned in the alchemical world, but with the right technique, it goes farther and heals more serious damage. When applied to the body, Yarrow heals one point of physical ability damage or drain. When a single subject uses three doses of Yarrow, it causes them to become sensitive to light, gaining Light Sensitivity for 24 hours. If they are in direct sunlight for more than an hour, they become sickened.

Ginseng Tea:
Market Cost: 100 gp
Alchemy DC: 20
Ginseng, when cultivated and brewed successfully, revitalizes and heals the mind. When drunk, Ginseng heals one point of mental ability damage or drain. When a single subject drinks three doses of Ginseng, they become Exhausted.

Thanaturgic Rite: Whether you have dug up ancient tomes written by Thanaturges of yore or have developed new ground breaking techniques, you've created rites that augment your Thrall's power. These rites siphon of a tiny amount of the soul energy from the deceased. It is the equivalent of taking a bucket full of water from the ocean. You may choose two Rites from the list below at the appropriate level. You may add any number of these rites to a use of the Incant of Reanimation, bestowing the bonuses as dictated. Each rite takes 10 minutes and costs the Thanaturge 35 gp worth of raw materials per HD of undead.

Level 3:

Rite of the Warrior:
The spirits of fallen warriors are always ready to return to battle. Fortunately, all you require is just a bit of their essence. By adding this rite to the Incantation, you bestow your Thrall with the ability to handle weapons and armor with ease. They are treated as if they had Weapon and Armor Proficiency of a Fighter.
Rite of the Apprentice:
Eager to return to their studies, the spirits of mages may be used to bless your thralls with the ability to use magic. By using this Rite, you may choose two spells from the list below. That spell is treated as an at will spell like ability that your thrall may use 3 times a day. Your Thrall is considered to be an arcane spellcaster with an effective level equal to 1/2 your Thanaturge level to determine DC checks and effective spell caster level.

-Abjuration:
Hold Portal: Holds door shut.
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.
-Conjuration:
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature of your choice to fight.
-Divination:
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Identify: Determines properties of magic item. Bone and Worm Thrall convey the properties to Thanaturge through flashes of images.
-Enchantment:
Charm Person: Makes one person friendly towards you.
Hypnotism: Fascinates 2d4 HD of creatures.
-Evocation:
Burning Hands: Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4).
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5)
-Illusion:
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design.
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance
-Necromancy:
Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds
Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage.
-Transmutation:
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Expeditious Retreat: Speed increases by 30 ft.

Rite of the Cut-Throat:
Not as willing as the rest of the souls to offer their abilities, the souls of rogues and thugs are ready to get back to their infamous trade. Your Thrall gains 1d6 Sneak Attack Damage and the Trapfinding ability as a rogue. They must be instructed to search for traps. When finished, they will signal that there is a trap in the area. Unless they had it life, they do no have the ability to disarm it.
Rite of the Pious:
Willing to divulge the prayers of their gods, your Thralls gain access to the Domains of the Cleric and may cast cure or inflict spells, your choice upon invoking this rite. You may choose one domain from those listed in the player's Handbook. Your Thrall is considered to be a Cleric with an effective level equal to 1/2 your Thanaturge level for determining DC checks and effective caster level. This also determines what level of cure or inflict spell that they may cast.
Rite of Nature:
Nature laughs, nature cries, nature gives, and nature dies. The secrets of the druids who once walked the land now belong to your Thralls. Your Thrall may use the Wild Empathy ability as a Druid. The Thrall uses its wisdom score in place of Charisma when making the Diplomacy check. Your Thrall may also cast two spells from the list twice a day. Your Thrall is considered to be a Druid with an effective level equal to 1/2 your Thanaturge level for determining DC checks and effective caster level.

Know Direction: You discern north.
Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius.
Goodberry: 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp/24 hours).
Summon Nature's Ally I: Calls creature to fight.
Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals. Bone and Worm Thralls convey what they have learned through flashes of images.

Rite of the Telepath:
Psions and Wilders who have departed to the other world may force their will on this one, with the right help. Upon choosing this rite, you may choose two powers from the list below. Your Thrall may now use those powers at will as a Psi-Like ability 3 times a day. Your Thrall is considered to be a Wilder with an effective level equal to 1/2 your Thanaturge level to determine the amount of power points it has access to. Your Thrall can augment these abilities using the power points they gain from the levels.

Crystal Shard: Ranged touch attack for 1d6 points of piercing damage.
Daze, Psionic: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Deja Vu: Your target repeats his last action
Demoralize: Enemies become shaken.
Deceleration: Targetís speed is halved.
Disable: Subjects incorrectly believe they are disabled.
Entangling Ectoplasm: You entangle a foe in sticky goo.
Far Hand: Move small objects at a limited distance.
Inertial Armor: Tangible field of force provides you with +4 armor bonus to AC.
Mind Thrust: Deal 1d10 damage.
My Light: Your eyes emit 20-ft. cone of light.
Telempathic Projection: Alter the subjectís mood.
Level 7:
Level 12:
Level 17:

Secrets of the Bone: The bones of the dead have whispered their secrets to you, allowing you to realize the secret of creating Worm Thralls. There are two different ways you may create Worm Thralls. The first is using the body of a deceased humanoid creature, creating a creature that functions exactly like a zombie of the creature used and functions like a Bone Thrall in the sense that it must be ordered and is difficult to turn or rebuke. The second way to create a Worm Thrall is taking a Bone Thrall that you already have under your control and grafting the flesh onto the bones. It takes 6 hours to graft the flesh and requires a full set of organs, muscles, and skin. After the graft is done, the Bone Thrall becomes a Worm Thrall and gains the physical attributes of the flesh's previous owner.

Secrets of the Flesh: The flesh of the fallen wish to be whole once again. They have revealed to you their deepest secrets, allowing you to create Thralls. Thralls are more powerful and smarter, due to their semi-conscious state. You may choose to create a Thrall, and only one Thrall. A Thrall is not undead, but does gain the Thrall Template, as shown on Table 1.4 and follows the rules as it dictates. If you attempt to create another Thrall, the force animating the previous one dissipates and causes the Thrall to turn back into the corpse. The Thrall gains the mental attributes of the previous owner and can access the information that belonged to them, gaining their skills and ranks. They lose any class levels that the host previously had. If a Rite is used on a Thrall, it gains 1/2 your Thanaturge level in the class that it specifies. (Ex: Rite of the Pious grants Cleric Levels. If two classes are listed (Psion/Wilder Sorc/Wizard) You may choose what class they take.)

Secrets of the Mind: The mind controls the body, but what controls the mind? The sentience you bestowed on your Thrall craves for more. They want a soul. You may coalesce the soul energy on the Thrall's body to a central point and create a Pseudo-Soul. The Thrall loses the Thrall template and gains the "Born" template and follows the rules as it dictates. If you attempt to create another Thrall, the force animating the previous one dissipates and causes the Thrall to turn back into the corpse.

Secrets of the Soul: The last piece of the puzzle falls into place and creates a true being of flesh and blood. The Thrall loses its Born Template and gains the "Reborn" template and follows the rules as it dictates.

True Incant of Reanimation: The point that all Thanaturges strive for, the ability to not only recreate life, but bestow life to those who lost it. By preforming a special ritual, you may resurrect someone as if they had been affected by True Resurrection with no material components. The ritual puts a strain on your body, causing you to take 2 points of Constitution Burn that is healed at the end of the week. If it is used multiple times, the Burn stacks and is healed at the end of the week. If you are reduced to zero constitution, you die and you cannot be raised, short of a Miracle or Wish.

Dencero
2010-08-17, 07:50 PM
Invocations:

-Least
---Reactions:
Bloodline's Grace:
Target: Self, Other
Range: Touch Attack
Casting Time: Standard Action
Duration: Instantaneous
By siphoning off of the power that courses through your veins, you may heal or damage those around you. Either yourself or another may be subject to this attack. You don't need to roll an attack on those who are willing, but must for those who aren't. You may choose to either heal pr harm a single target.
--
Breath of the Night
Dark Oneís Own Luck
Darkness
Devilís Sight
Entropic Warding
Leaps and Bounds
Miasmic Cloud
See the Unseen
Spiderwalk
Summon Swarm
-Lesser
Dreaming Darkly:
Casting Time: Full Round Action
Duration: 1 Minute/Level
You know how to preform the rituals to speak with the dead. At the end of the ritual, you may choose to Speak or Commune with the spirits of the area.
-Speak: You contact one random spirit from the area and draw it into the material plane. The nature of the spirit and what it know is up to the DM. The spirit cannot harm you and must answer your questions. You may ask one question per two Thanaturge levels. Upon finishing the questions, the spirit departs and you may not use your Speak ability in this area for the next 24 hours.
-Commune: Instead of contacting one spirit, you contact many at the same time, letting their unheard whispers fill your mind. This is more risky, requiring a will save equal to 10+1/2 the Thanaturge's level. If you succeed, you instantly know up to 3 facts about the area that you did not know before, DM's decision. If you fail, the whispers flood your mind, causing you to become sickened for 1d4 minutes, -1 Penalty to Will saves, and do not gain any knowledge.

Dencero
2010-08-17, 07:51 PM
Reserved For 1.3

Dencero
2010-08-17, 07:52 PM
Templates:

Feats:

Analysis
2010-08-18, 06:50 AM
The Bone Kenning module was nice. :smallsmile:

The idea of an invocation using necromancer (yeah, yeah, thanaturge, tomato, tomahto) is also good.

You are using nonstandard save and BAB progressions though, and have an uneven number of skill points per level. While not necessarily wrong per se, it feels a little jarring. I would give them 6 skill points rather than 5, and BAB/saves as a cleric. Also I would use the same number of invocations known as a warlock.

I recommend against using a code. It fits for things like paladins or clerics where an external power is judging them and may withhold its blessings, but not really for someone with inborn power. Individual thanaturges might well function like that, becoming conflicted if they violate their own ideals, but I wouldn't build it into the base class.

There is no Alchemy skill, rather there is Craft: Alchemy. Also, there is no Knowledge: Necrology or Knowledge: Anatomy. Instead, these things fall under Knowledge: Religion or Heal, respectively.

The Alchemical Process ability, does that basically represent rare alchemical items that only Thanaturges are taught to make?

The original game let you control one thrall at a time, only, but that I think was mainly due to the game engine being limited to a single henchperson creature. Because of this, I would allow this Thanaturge to construct an arbitrary number of thralls, but control only a certain number (total HD of level x 4 - level x 8 perhaps?) at the same time, with excess thralls becoming free-willed undead.

Also... while the various Thrall-creating abilities are flavourful, they are slightly limiting. I would recommend retaining the flavour, but simply making it so that the Thanaturge can create any type of undead up to her hit dice as long as she has the proper corpse material available. In the module, you used a summoning circle, so perhaps a ritual is required that takes, say, 10 minutes per HD of the resulting undead creature?

I would also make the speak with dead thing a bonus invocation, so that it can be used at will, and give the class Rebuke Undead as a cleric.

The resurrection ability could be a bonus invocation you learn (and there could also be a raise dead invocation) which happens to cause you ability burn. Would an undead thanaturge take Charisma burn instead?

Even then, it is actually a bit weak compared with the warlock - note that they get the Eldritch Blast as a primary feature. Some ability to channel negative energy (like the dread necromancer's touch attack, but probably stronger) would give the thanaturge offensive capacities as well as a way to heal her thralls.

Keep up the good work! :smallsmile:

Dencero
2010-08-18, 07:33 AM
The Bone Kenning module was nice. :smallsmile:

The idea of an invocation using necromancer (yeah, yeah, thanaturge, tomato, tomahto) is also good.

You are using nonstandard save and BAB progressions though, and have an uneven number of skill points per level. While not necessarily wrong per se, it feels a little jarring. I would give them 6 skill points rather than 5, and BAB/saves as a cleric. Also I would use the same number of invocations known as a warlock.

I recommend against using a code. It fits for things like paladins or clerics where an external power is judging them and may withhold its blessings, but not really for someone with inborn power. Individual thanaturges might well function like that, becoming conflicted if they violate their own ideals, but I wouldn't build it into the base class.

There is no Alchemy skill, rather there is Craft: Alchemy. Also, there is no Knowledge: Necrology or Knowledge: Anatomy. Instead, these things fall under Knowledge: Religion or Heal, respectively.

The Alchemical Process ability, does that basically represent rare alchemical items that only Thanaturges are taught to make?

The original game let you control one thrall at a time, only, but that I think was mainly due to the game engine being limited to a single henchperson creature. Because of this, I would allow this Thanaturge to construct an arbitrary number of thralls, but control only a certain number (total HD of level x 4 - level x 8 perhaps?) at the same time, with excess thralls becoming free-willed undead.

Also... while the various Thrall-creating abilities are flavourful, they are slightly limiting. I would recommend retaining the flavour, but simply making it so that the Thanaturge can create any type of undead up to her hit dice as long as she has the proper corpse material available. In the module, you used a summoning circle, so perhaps a ritual is required that takes, say, 10 minutes per HD of the resulting undead creature?

I would also make the speak with dead thing a bonus invocation, so that it can be used at will, and give the class Rebuke Undead as a cleric.

The resurrection ability could be a bonus invocation you learn (and there could also be a raise dead invocation) which happens to cause you ability burn. Would an undead thanaturge take Charisma burn instead?

Even then, it is actually a bit weak compared with the warlock - note that they get the Eldritch Blast as a primary feature. Some ability to channel negative energy (like the dread necromancer's touch attack, but probably stronger) would give the thanaturge offensive capacities as well as a way to heal her thralls.

Keep up the good work! :smallsmile:

Thank you for all the great advice! It also helps that the first person who replies knows exactly where this is coming from. Now, first off, I see your point and that's exactly the kind of advice I need and will change the skills, saves, BAB, and Invocations. And you're right. It didn't exactly feel right to me. As for the code, it's something I will keep, but not as a base mechanic. There's a method to my madness. It will used more for role-playing than anything else, but I still want it to be there. When I played Bone Kenning, I imagined this giant network of families. As such, I planned for first level feats that gave the player abilities and resources from their families. Taking into context what you suggested, I was thinking of something like this:

Amraphen:
You are an Amraphen, the noble shepherds of life and death. Your family is dedicated to reaching a balance of life, death, and undeath in the world. Eradicate the evil, protect the good, and keep a balance between the two. That is your code.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to turn or rebuke checks
Benefit: You double your starting gold
Refer to the Amraphen Family for more information and roleplaying ideas.

Now, onto the rest. Alchemy, Knowledge (Necrology), and Knowledge (Anatomy) exist in very obscure source books that I've come across. I'll transcribe them into 1.4 ASAP. And yes, the Alchemical Process ability represents unique regents that the Thanaturge can make, like in the original module. As for the free willed undead idea, yes, it does seem like a good idea and I will implement this. Bone and Worm Thralls though lack much free will or reasoning power. That's why I implemented the ordering around ability. Maybe when they create more, they could store them and use them for later. Gives a new meaning to "Skeletons in your closet." Thinking back on that, I'm gonna change it to one free action to X free actions where X is your charisma modifier. And Speak with Dead is sort of supposed to represent those divinations you could make in the module. I'll think about adding it to Invocations. Great idea on the resurrection ability. It will become a bonus invocation with constitution burn or charisma burn for undead Thanaturges. Maybe not necessarily negative energy damage. Maybe untyped damage on a grander scale of that one invocation I did before. I kind of want to make the Thanaturge a blank slate, capable of both good and evil. And for the flavor of creating unique undead will still be there. That's what the Rites are for. It's simplier than what I originally did. I've got 15 pages, front to back of body parts that can be used to create a thrall using the same kind of mechanic they used in the module: Two sets of bones, a skull, can add claws or not. Then came the muscles, skin, organ systems, and pseudo souls, each set with unique properties and abilities. If it still seems like a good idea to post the original mechanic, I will.

Thank you so much for all the suggestions. I will get to work on this as soon as I can. If you have any more ideas, please let me know. I could use all the help I can get.

Analysis
2010-08-18, 09:14 AM
The family idea is good. Maybe making a series of feats such as "Ampraphen Heritage" and give one out as a bonus feat on the first level of the class? They can come with the drawbacks of the code. Should probably have the prerequisite that they can be chosen only at first level (so if you later multiclass into Thanaturge you miss out on the bonus feat unless...) OR if you marry into the family in question. :smalltongue:

As for the alchemical components, are there other alchemists anywhere in the world that can create the same potions? If so, maybe that also should be a feat that the Thanaturges get as a bonus feat? Alternately, consider instead adding in the Warlock's crafting features (Imbue Item) in its place. That feature allows a warlock to create items (such as potions of cure wounds) without actually being able to cast the spells (still need the crafting feat though), which would produce a similar effect to what you are going for, but with greater versatility.

If you have an entire system for creating customized undead, I recommend you bundle it all up into the Rites mechanic and add it to the class. That could be great. :smallsmile:

Dencero
2010-08-18, 09:57 AM
The family idea is good. Maybe making a series of feats such as "Ampraphen Heritage" and give one out as a bonus feat on the first level of the class? They can come with the drawbacks of the code. Should probably have the prerequisite that they can be chosen only at first level (so if you later multiclass into Thanaturge you miss out on the bonus feat unless...) OR if you marry into the family in question. :smalltongue:

As for the alchemical components, are there other alchemists anywhere in the world that can create the same potions? If so, maybe that also should be a feat that the Thanaturges get as a bonus feat? Alternately, consider instead adding in the Warlock's crafting features (Imbue Item) in its place. That feature allows a warlock to create items (such as potions of cure wounds) without actually being able to cast the spells (still need the crafting feat though), which would produce a similar effect to what you are going for, but with greater versatility.

If you have an entire system for creating customized undead, I recommend you bundle it all up into the Rites mechanic and add it to the class. That could be great. :smallsmile:

I'm going to have a series of feats. As stated in the fluff, there are free Thanaturges out there, which will have a feat for themselves. I'll add an ability at the beginning, which will tie into "The Path" and "The Choice". The Path and Choice will give more abilities based on what you are and what you chose at first level.

*Facepalm* I forgot about that. >.>
But then again, I kinda wanted an ability for them to use early on. That's what I've got so far in Alchemy.

That's what I'm doing. First rites I've made are pretty simple. I'll add some more that will be for both good and the bad, like Thralls actually using positive and negative energy, making the susceptible to turning and rebuking. I have a lot planned for the Rites, thanks to the filling cabinet full of body parts.

....

That came out better in my head.

Latronis
2010-08-18, 10:29 AM
always thought it a little odd that the warlock was so light on necromancy, ill keep an eye on this

Starbuck_II
2010-08-18, 10:39 AM
Wait, 10 gp Cure light potion?

That seems a big paradigm for most DMs (since normal CLW potions cost 50 gp)

Dencero
2010-08-18, 02:46 PM
Wait, 10 gp Cure light potion?

That seems a big paradigm for most DMs (since normal CLW potions cost 50 gp)

I'm still working on it. I plan to have some sort of side effect, as I have had on the others.

Dencero
2010-08-18, 02:47 PM
always thought it a little odd that the warlock was so light on necromancy, ill keep an eye on this

Thanks. If you have any advice or ideas you wish to put forward, please do. I'm always looking for new ideas and any assistance I can get.

Analysis
2010-08-18, 03:01 PM
If you want positive energy thralls, consider giving them the Deathless rather than Undead type.

Dencero
2010-08-18, 03:03 PM
If you want positive energy thralls, consider giving them the Deathless rather than Undead type.

Noted. I'll dig up the books and go from there.

Dencero
2010-08-18, 03:51 PM
Okay, for kicks and giggles, I'm gonna set up a "To Do List". Might give me more of an idea where to go when I finish something.

1) Class Features
-Incant of Reanimation
-Secrets of Series
-Thanaturgic Retribution
-Thanaturgic Dismissal
-Alchemical Process
-Thanaturgic Rites (Note to Self: There's always something happening and it's usually quite loud)
--Level 3
--Level 7
--Level 12
--Level 15
-Thanaturgic Mysteries (Note to self: Think meta-magics that apply to the Incantation)
-The Path -> (Note to self: Can't do this until I make Heritages.)
-The Choice -> (See The Path)
2) Invocations (Note to self: Water, fire, air, and dirt. Freaking invocations, how do they work?)
3) Thanaturgic Families (Note to self: Pull up old notes)
4) Feats (Note to self: She waits for you to go to sleep, then she comes to eat your feats.)
5) Families (Note to self: 'Cause we're movin' on up!)
6) Templates
7) Prestige Classes (Note to self: Every family should have one prestige class. (Amraphen=Arbiter) (Turiea=The Fold) (Rynis=Exorcist) (Enthris=Wild Child? Wild One?) (Bandelran= Instigator) (Free Thanaturge=???)

Milo v3
2010-08-25, 04:28 AM
I've played the mod Art of the Thanaturge and I've wondered about a few things.

Like were is the Raven form I thik it would be an Invocation. Love your family idea. Also how can you make an incorporeal thrall or other types of undead other than skeletons?

Did you turn the curse feature into invocations.
Note: I love cursing people:smallsmile:
Mwah Hah Ha Ha........:belkar:
Dam backlash now I'm blind.:mitd:

Still I think you should add Curses for evil Thanaturges somewhat like evil clerics get different things to good ones. I have no idea what what good ones would get?