Solipsist Illusionist

[prufock]

Here's a bit of a strange one. Looking for advice on a concept-driven character that I've had in mind for a long time. Basically, I'm looking at a gnome who has spent some time in isolation, possibly on another plane (astral, shadow, or ethereal). Because of this, he has a mild form of Solipsism Syndrome. Essentially, he's not convinced that anything is really real. Life, the world, existence, maybe even thought could all be a dream or illusion.

Normally, this syndrome leads to loneliness, detachment, isolation, and indifference to the world. I don't think I want this character to be too depressed, though, so he is undergoing treatments, such as:
1. Visit a place in which you can see far off.
2. Get some plants.
3. Spend time around pets, spend time with people.
4. Find someone you can talk about your feelings with.
5. Eat healthy.
6. Keep Hydrated.
7. Get a normal amount of sleep.
8. Exercise.
9. Get outside.
10. Seek professional help.
(source) (http://solipsismhelp.webs.com/foodforthought.htm)

Anyway, it's not so much the concept I'm having trouble with, more like the build to fit the concept. My immediate thought was Wizard (illusionist)/Master Specialist, but sitting for an hour preparing spells from a spellbook every day doesn't really fit the theme for this guy.

So I'm figuring either a psion (shaper or kineticist) or sorcerer. Psionics doesn't seem to have a lot of the sort of powers I'd like, so I'm leaning toward sorcerer, but I could be persuaded the other way.

Essentially, what I'm asking is for opinions either way, as well as some concept-appropriate feats and prestige classes that might work.

Thanks in advance.

[Snake-Aes]

RP XP if he mentions Tang.

[Peregrine]

Psionics works well flavour-wise, in that being able to reshape the world around him with a thought plays right into his belief that the world is all in his mind. :smallwink:

[Cyrion]

How about a sorcerer who relies on illusion spells?

You'd want him to specialize in elaborate, exotic illusions in attempts to "outcompete" the fantasies (actually, reality) he sees himself as already constructing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Life, the world, existence, maybe even thought could all be a dream or illusion.
Or perhaps some sort of cooperative storytelling game?

After all, what are the odds that you're not fictional? (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1150) Every fictional character ever devised is evidence that you are. Let's go tell a solipsist, and then punch him, and then say "Stop imagining punching yourself!" (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=972)


Normally, this syndrome leads to loneliness, detachment, isolation, and indifference to the world.
Perhaps, but I don't see why it should have to. Planescape had a whole faction of solipsists, and I get the impression that many of them were sort of cheerful about it. (Although I don't think that I've personally seen more than a grand total of two Signers, so that's pretty anecdotal.)


My immediate thought was Wizard (illusionist)/Master Specialist, but sitting for an hour preparing spells from a spellbook every day doesn't really fit the theme for this guy.
Huh. Why not? (And what sort of gnome doesn't enjoy spellcraft? :smalltongue:)

What sort of powers are you looking for?

The Beguiler class gets lots of illusion spells, I'm pretty sure.

[Thiyr]

+1 for beguiler. Non-prepared, heavy on illusion and enchantment (both of which could fit the concept. Use enchantment to "open their minds to their illusory nature" and disable them in combat. Illusion, as said above, to try and "compete" with "reality".) Skills are nice as well.

Additional random off-the-cuff idea: pending on your playgroup's willingness to houserule/homebrew, you may be able to convince your DM to let you use master specialist for either illusion or enchantment, considering the class's already strong predisposition towards said schools. Perhaps change the specialist prerequisite to requiring advanced learning at certain levels to be of said school instead.

[Endarire]

Intro
A gnome Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster)1 with 2 flaws can qualify for Shadowcraft Mage (Races of Stone 120).

Setup
-Take Bluff and Disguise as class skills.
-Take Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus: Illusion (Complete Mage 45), and Spell Focus: Illusion. Your last feat can be whatever you wish. Improved Initiative and Easy Metamagic: Heighten Spell ("Dragon" issue 325) are solid choices.
-Learn net of shadows (Spell Compendium 147).

Now you qualify for Shadowcraft Mage!

Proceeding from Here
Generic Spellcaster1/Shadowcraft Mage5/Incantatrix3 is a solid start. The Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0) is very handy in this regard.

Alternatively
A gnome Wizard (Illusionist)3/Shadowcraft Mage5 works well, too. The alternate class features (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) give Wizard specialists a significant boost. Use one of your feats to get you Bluff and Disguise as class skills and proceed as with a Generic Spellcaster.

[prufock]

Or perhaps some sort of cooperative storytelling game?
Well, that's the general idea, but I don't know if I want to go THAT "meta" with it! :D


what are the odds that you're not fictional? (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1150) Every fictional character ever devised is evidence that you are.
The logical fallacies of that argument notwithstanding, that's certainly the kind of thing HE will use to argue his points. The great thing about this concept is that it is not falsifiable, which makes his belief very robust. He doesn't have to be correct, of course, just convinced!


Perhaps, but I don't see why it should have to. Planescape had a whole faction of solipsists, and I get the impression that many of them were sort of cheerful about it.
I know next to nothing about Planescape, but keep in mind there's a difference between solipsism as an academic philosophy and solipsism syndrome, which is a (proposed) pathological disorder. Part of what makes it a pathology is that it leads to negative affect.


Why not?
Well, if this guy has the perspective that "reality" is mutable, and can be changed with a thought, having to sit and prepare such changes from a spellbook everyday would seem an odd thing to do. The alterations should be fairly spontaneous, in my concept.


What sort of powers are you looking for?

The Beguiler class gets lots of illusion spells, I'm pretty sure.
His powers should be such that they seem to indicate an alterable reality, in that "it's all in your mind." While I guess you could apply that to any magic, I'm thinking a lot of illusion, some transmutation, conjuration, maybe some enchantment - things that literally change the way things are or seem. They should be, for the most part, immediately noticeable effects.
I'll have to check over Beguiler again. I've never played one, but I've heard good things.

Thanks!

[prufock]

Intro
A gnome Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster)1 with 2 flaws can qualify for Shadowcraft Mage (Races of Stone 120).

Setup
-Take Bluff and Disguise as class skills.
-Take Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus: Illusion (Complete Mage 45), and Spell Focus: Illusion. Your last feat can be whatever you wish. Improved Initiative and Easy Metamagic: Heighten Spell ("Dragon" issue 325) are solid choices.
-Learn net of shadows (Spell Compendium 147).

Now you qualify for Shadowcraft Mage!

Proceeding from Here
Generic Spellcaster1/Shadowcraft Mage5/Incantatrix3 is a solid start. The Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0) is very handy in this regard.

Alternatively
A gnome Wizard (Illusionist)3/Shadowcraft Mage5 works well, too. The alternate class features (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) give Wizard specialists a significant boost. Use one of your feats to get you Bluff and Disguise as class skills and proceed as with a Generic Spellcaster.

Thanks for the ideas! I'll run by the generic spellcaster idea. It seems like a bit of a cheat, but I doubt it will be overpowered. Also, I can work it into his backstory that the plane of shadow is where he was isolated.

[zaulsiin]

It seems to me that a BeguilerPHB2 entry into Shadowcraft MageRaces of Stone would most fit the flavor, if you're looking to avoid prepared casters.

The Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0) has some good information for you.

[Telonius]

It seems to me that a BeguilerPHB2 entry into Shadowcraft MageRaces of Stone would most fit the flavor, if you're looking to avoid prepared casters.

The Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0) has some good information for you.

I'd strongly recommend Shadowcraft Mage. A class where you can get your illusions to become realer than real seems to be right up this guy's alley.

[Fayd]

Flavor-wise, I'm all for psion or some other psionic class. Get the branch of powers to transmute reality, create illusions, mess with the other people's minds.

[Keld Denar]

I'd strongly recommend Shadowcraft Mage. A class where you can get your illusions to become realer than real seems to be right up this guy's alley.

Especially if you quote Jamie from Mythbusters by saying "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

My reality is more real than your reality will ever be. Now who's the crazy one?!?!?!?!

[TooManyBadgers]

I think I've played this character. It used a Sorcerer base, though.

[prufock]

Intro
A gnome Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster)1 with 2 flaws can qualify for Shadowcraft Mage (Races of Stone 120).

Setup
-Take Bluff and Disguise as class skills.
-Take Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus: Illusion (Complete Mage 45), and Spell Focus: Illusion. Your last feat can be whatever you wish. Improved Initiative and Easy Metamagic: Heighten Spell ("Dragon" issue 325) are solid choices.
-Learn net of shadows (Spell Compendium 147).

Now you qualify for Shadowcraft Mage!

Proceeding from Here
Generic Spellcaster1/Shadowcraft Mage5/Incantatrix3 is a solid start. The Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0) is very handy in this regard.


I'm not sure I understand how this works. Shadowcraft Mage requires that you are able to cast at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher. Maybe I'm missing some trick in the way you apply those feats, but I don't think it's a legal build. A first level generic spellcaster has no 4th level spells known or slots per day until level 8. Even if you combine Heighten Spell and Metamagic School Focus (which I'm not sure would count as the requirement anyway), you can still only cast Net of Shadows as a 2nd level spell, right?

[valadil]

Another vote for Shadowcraft Mage. I think your concept is awesome and this is the first character I've seen that makes sense for SCM, instead of just taking it because it's powerful.

The way I see it is that to your character your illusions are just as real as reality, and that lets you push more reality into them.

You would have to deal with prepared casting at first, but at higher levels SCM takes care of that.

[prufock]

I've decided I'm definitely going the Shadowcraft Mage route. Now I just need to figure out the best way to get into it. If Endarire's method is legit, awesome. If not, Beguiler or Sorcerer seems to fit. Thanks everyone!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Generic Spellcaster, like all the generic classes, are designed to be used in absence of all non-generic classes, including prestige classes. If your game is not using them exclusively, then they should not be available at all. You either get the customization of the generic classes, or you get the customization of standard base classes and prestige classes, they were never intended to be combined.

I'd go Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 8 for the build, Shadowcrafter is in Underdark (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003a) and can be substituted for more Master Specialist and two more Wizard levels. Use all three of the Illusionist ACFs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) from UA, along with the Gnome Illusionist 1 substitution level from RoS. Use Earth Spell in RoS with Signature Spell from PGtF to spontaneously cast any Evocation or Conjuration (Creation or Summoning) spell in the game, and get Residual Magic from CM so every other one you cast takes only a 0-level spell slot. If you're starting high enough level to have bought off a level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), you can start with the Shadow Creature template from LoM or Dark Creature from ToM. Alternatively get a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis in ToM for 22,000 gp to get the Dark Creature template for no level adjustment.

[prufock]

Starting level is 11, fyi. I think I've got my build figured out now. Thanks!

[Prime32]

Am I the only one who misread the thread title as "Somniloquist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somniloquy) Illusionist"? Because that could be fun too. :smalltongue:

[Endarire]

My Shadowcraft Mage early entry trick requires you fill your Bluff4 and Disguise4 reqs by some other means. Kudos to your DM if he lets you waive these. There's a third party 3.0 feat called Versatile that made 2 skills always class skills for you.

The Trick
-Heighten Spell is special among metamagic feats, and it actually changes the spell's level. Thus, a level 1 spell Heightened by 3 levels is considered a level 4 spell in all ways.

-Net of shadows (Spell Compendium 147) is a level 1 Illusion (Shadow) spell for Wizards. Dead end (Spell Compendium 59) is a less useful level 1 Illusion (Shadow) spell, but for Assassins, Bards, and Wizards.

-Metamagic School Focus (Complete Mage 45) lets you reduce the slot requirement by 1 of any metamagic feat you know thrice per day. In this case, we apply all slot reducers simultaneously. Debatably, prepared casters must prepare this Heightened Illusion (Shadow) spell to be RAW legal.

-So long as you have your level 4 Illusion (Shadow) spell available to cast, you can still qualify for Shadowcraft Mage.

[Keld Denar]

-Metamagic School Focus (Complete Mage 45) lets you reduce the slot requirement by 1 of any metamagic feat you know thrice per day. In this case, we apply all slot reducers simultaneously. Debatably, prepared casters must prepare this Heightened Illusion (Shadow) spell to be RAW legal.

THIS is the debatable part. Whether or not you can blow all 3 uses on one spell. MMSF is a good, balanced feat if you can only apply it once to a single spell. Allowing all 3 uses applied to one spell enables a rediculous amount of novaing that unbalances it significantly...

Also, whether its RAW legal is also debatable...

[Urpriest]

Some sort of Shadowcraft Mage fits the character well. The one reason I'd go with Psionics instead is the Microcosm power, which would essentially validate your character's perspective on life (at least until he/she died of thirst).

[prufock]

-Metamagic School Focus (Complete Mage 45) lets you reduce the slot requirement by 1 of any metamagic feat you know thrice per day. In this case, we apply all slot reducers simultaneously. Debatably, prepared casters must prepare this Heightened Illusion (Shadow) spell to be RAW legal.

Ah, that's pretty cheesy. And I'm not sure it's legal, but nevertheless I would not allow it if I were a DM. For one, it says "Three times per day, you can reduce by one level the cost of a metamagic feat." If you're applying them simultaneously, you aren't reducing one level three times, you're reducing three levels one time. Not the same thing in my interpretation.

[prufock]

Am I the only one who misread the thread title as "Somniloquist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somniloquy) Illusionist"? Because that could be fun too. :smalltongue:

How about Somniloquist Bard?

[prufock]

Would it hurt me much to take Beguiler as my main base, but dip Sorcerer for Arcane Disciple (luck) to get Miracle on the Sorc/Wiz spell list? I'll lose a level of spellcasting progression, but it seems like with Shadowcraft Mage that isn't going to be a big deal.

[Keld Denar]

Shadow Miracle is something thats debatable at best. Just because a spell is on your list, doesn't make it a sorcerer/wizard spell. If it did, every spell would be on every list and there would be no need for lists at all, simply because somewhere in the world someone invented an arcane version of a divine spell, or an archivist got ahold of something from a domain or obscure class list or whatever.

And honestly, do you really want to bring Shadow Miracles to a game? Thats about the single most abusive use of ScM imaginable. Thats the reason why many DMs ban ScM With Residual Metamagic, Versatile Spellcaster and enough MM reducers, having access to 8-10 XP free Miracles a day by level 13 or so is game shattering. Its a good class without that sort of BS, and a terrificly versatile blaster and battlefield controller. Don't screw yourself by trying to venture too much into the realm of the disgusting.

[prufock]

Shadow Miracle is something thats debatable at best. Just because a spell is on your list, doesn't make it a sorcerer/wizard spell. If it did, every spell would be on every list and there would be no need for lists at all, simply because somewhere in the world someone invented an arcane version of a divine spell, or an archivist got ahold of something from a domain or obscure class list or whatever.

Arcane Disciple adds the spells of one domain to your class list; if your class is Sorcerer or Wizard, that means the Sorc/Wiz class list for you. It seems pretty clear to me that it would apply to Shadow Illusion. It's only a Sorc/Wiz spell if you have the feat and are Sorc or Wiz.


And honestly, do you really want to bring Shadow Miracles to a game? Thats about the single most abusive use of ScM imaginable. Thats the reason why many DMs ban ScM With Residual Metamagic, Versatile Spellcaster and enough MM reducers, having access to 8-10 XP free Miracles a day by level 13 or so is game shattering. Its a good class without that sort of BS, and a terrificly versatile blaster and battlefield controller. Don't screw yourself by trying to venture too much into the realm of the disgusting.

Absolutely, and I'm going to discuss it with the DM first. We're only going to be level 11, so I would have at most half that many, since I would HAVE to use Residual MM first to emulate Miracle.
I'm not doing this to break the game. The RP aspect of this character is going to lead him to be suboptimal, so having him super-optimal mechanically would somewhat even it out. I don't plan to be dishing out miracles left right and centre, to try to "win" the game.

[Keld Denar]

Arcane Disciple adds the spells of one domain to your class list; if your class is Sorcerer or Wizard, that means the Sorc/Wiz class list for you. It seems pretty clear to me that it would apply to Shadow Illusion. It's only a Sorc/Wiz spell if you have the feat and are Sorc or Wiz.

The bolded part is the part that isn't covered by the Shadow Illusion ability. Shadow Illusion doesn't say "any spell on YOUR Sorcerer/Wizard list".

Anyway, I've argued that in the past, and I don't want to argue it again. If your DM hates you, don't blame us. You seem intent on carrying it out, and there is nothing that we of the internet can do to stop you. Best of luck.

[prufock]

The bolded part is the part that isn't covered by the Shadow Illusion ability. Shadow Illusion doesn't say "any spell on YOUR Sorcerer/Wizard list".

Anyway, I've argued that in the past, and I don't want to argue it again. If your DM hates you, don't blame us. You seem intent on carrying it out, and there is nothing that we of the internet can do to stop you. Best of luck.

Okay, I see now how you could argue that perspective. The difference between "the" spell list and "your" spell list. To me, the fact that it says your class list and that if you have more than one spellcasting class you have to pick one for it to apply to are the important parts. So I see what you're saying, but I personally disagree. I'm sure it's one of those longstanding arguments in the D&D forum world that never really gets resolved.

I've run it by the DM, and he's in agreement; it's broken as all get-out. Oddly, he seems okay with that, even allowing for the Heighten Spell early qualification trick.

But I haven't decided yet. It IS a bit much. This game won't be happening for at least a few weeks, and there are other, less cheesy ways I could use those 2 feats. I'm still not even sure if I'm going Beguiler or Sorcerer. That will likely depend on what the others are playing (do we need more skills or more magic?).

[Zanticor]

I think that if your illusionist is starting to cast shadow miracles on level 13 you might have to reconsider what is real and what is not. Perhaps your DM is really screwing with you and this is all really an illusion. If he allows that kind of cheese maybe it all just a lucid dream! I know that doesn't change much in the D&D realm but just consider this: do you get XP if you kill a monster in a D&D dream? Free miracles but without xp gain seems like a nightmare to me.:smallamused:

[prufock]

I think that if your illusionist is starting to cast shadow miracles on level 13 you might have to reconsider what is real and what is not. Perhaps your DM is really screwing with you and this is all really an illusion. If he allows that kind of cheese maybe it all just a lucid dream! I know that doesn't change much in the D&D realm but just consider this: do you get XP if you kill a monster in a D&D dream? Free miracles but without xp gain seems like a nightmare to me.:smallamused:

I wouldn't put it past him!

[Chauncymancer]

RP tip: Have him narrate what happened out loud, as if he was telling this story right now.
"And then a FIREBALL burst from my finger tips!"
Not necessarily in a meta way, but in a "and yesterday I..." kind of way.
Like that Stranger than Fiction movie.
(woot. first post :smallbiggrin:)

[Hirax]

This thread made me notice the solipsism spell from the spell compendium. Hot damn that packs a whallop.