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View Full Version : [d20r, Class] The Warlord, v3.0



Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 01:43 PM
This class frequently references "hero value": a hero value is equal to half your character level, though some feats and class features may augment it.

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Auras of Leadership | Auras of Command
1st | +1 | +1 | +0 | +2 | Aura of Leadership, Tactical Leadership +1 | 1 | -
2nd | +2 | +1 | +0 | +3 | Bonus Feat, Leader's Obligation | 2 | -
3rd | +3 | +2 | +1 | +3 | Motivation | 2 | -
4th | +4 | +2 | +1 | +4 | Alacrity, Aura of Command | 2 | 1
5th | +5 | +3 | +1 | +4 | Bonus Feat, Tactical Leadership +2 | 3 | 1
6th | +6/+1 | +3 | +2 | +5 | - | 3 | 2
7th | +7/+2 | +3 | +2 | +5 | Legion's Motivation | 3 | 2
8th | +8/+3 | +4 | +2 | +6 | Bonus Feat | 4 | 2
9th | +9/+4 | +4 | +3 | +6 | Double Aura | 4 | 2
10th | +10/+5 | +5 | +3 | +7 | Legion's Alacrity, Tactical Leadership +3 | 4 | 3
11th | +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +3 | +7 | Bonus Feat | 5 | 3
12th | +12/+7/+2 | +6 | +4 | +8 | - | 5 | 3
13th | +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +4 | +8 | Broaden Aura | 5 | 3
14th | +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +4 | +9 | Bonus Feat | 6 | 4
15th | +15/+10/+5 | +7 | +5 | +9 | Tactical Leadership +4 | 6 | 4
16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +7 | +5 | +10 | Mercurial Action (1/day) | 6 | 4
17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +8 | +5 | +10 | Bonus Feat | 7 | 4
18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +8 | +6 | +11 | - | 7 | 5
19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +8 | +6 | +11 | Triple Aura | 7 | 5
20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +9 | +6 | +12 | Bonus Feat, Mercurial Action (Cha/day), Tactical Leadership +5 | 8 | 6[/table]

HD: d10

Prowess: A warlord gains six prowess per level.

Skills: A warlord has the Knight and Warrior skill sets and chooses one other. He gains 4+INT skill points per level (x4 at first level).

Proficiencies: A warlord is proficient with all simple weapons, plus any three weapon groups of their choice. They are also proficient with all armors and with all shields (except tower shields).

Aura of Leadership (Ex): A warlord's mere presence is a stirring and motivating force, particularly on the battlefield. At first, second, fifth, eighth, eleventh, fourteenth, seventeenth, and twentieth, a warlord selects an aura from the list of auras of leadership below. A warlord may have one aura of leadership active at a time, and any bonus provided by an aura is considered a morale bonus unless stated otherwise. Each aura of leadership has a radius of 30'. Switching an aura of leadership is a swift action. Auras of leadership are Aura effects and are affected by feats and abilities that specifically augment auras.

Tactical Leadership (Ex): A warlord is always rapidly issuing commands to his allies on the battlefield: as such, allies within 30' of him gain a +1 to attack and damage rolls when flanking or when using a special combat maneuver (such as a bull-rush, a disarm attempt, or a fencer's Tactical Strike ability). This ability increases by +1 every five levels (to +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 20th).

Bonus Feat: A warlord gains a bonus investing feat at second level and again every three levels thereafter (5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th). He must meet prerequisites for these feats as normal.

Leader's Obligation: At second level, a warlord gains the Leader's Obligation style feat as a bonus feat.

Motivation (Ex): At third level and above, as a move action, a warlord can grant a move action immediately to one of his allies within 100'. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier. This ability does not alter the order of initiative and follows the normal rules for move actions, except that the ally is able to use the move action on the warlord's turn.

Alacrity (Ex): At fourth level and above, as a standard action, a warlord can grant an attack immediately to one of his allies within 100'. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier. This ability does not alter the order of initiative and follows the normal rules for attacks, except that the ally is able to use the attack on the warlord's turn. The ally chosen also gains a bonus on the attack and damage rolls equal to the warlord's hero value.

Aura of Command (Ex): At fourth level, a warlord gains the ability to radiate a second aura: an aura of command. At fourth, sixth, tenth, fourteenth, eighteenth, and twentieth, a warlord selects an aura from the list of auras of command below. A warlord may have one aura of command active at a time, and any bonus provided by an aura of command is considered a morale bonus unless stated otherwise. Auras of command have a 30' radius. Switching an aura of command is a standard action. Auras of command are Aura effects and are affected by feats and abilities that specifically augment auras.

Legion's Motivation (Ex): Starting at seventh level, a warlord may use an ability similar to his Motivation ability on multiple allies at the same time. As a standard action, he may grant a move action (as if by his Motivation ability) to all allies within a 20' radius centered within 100'. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier.

Double Aura (Ex): Starting at ninth level, a warlord may have two auras of leadership active at the same time.

Legion's Alacrity (Ex): Starting at tenth level, a warlord may use an ability similar to his Alacrity ability on multiple allies at the same time. As a standard action, he may grant an attack action (as if by his Alacrity ability) to all allies within a 20' radius centered within 100'. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier. Allies affected by this ability also gain a bonus on their attack and damage rolls equal to his hero value.

Broaden Aura (Ex): Starting at thirteenth level, a warlord may designate one aura effect he is currently generating as a broadened aura: double the radius of this aura. Switching which aura is broadened is a move action.

Mercurial Action (Ex): At sixteenth level and above, as a standard action, a warlord can grant a standard action immediately to one of his allies within 100'. This ability is usable once per day. This ability does not alter the order of initiative and follows the normal rules for standard actions, except that the ally is able to use the action on the warlord's turn. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier once the warlord reaches 20th level.

Triple Aura (Ex): Starting at nineteenth level, a warlord may have thre auras of leadership active at the same time.


Auras
Auras of Leadership
Bloodlust: The warlord grants a bonus on damage rolls equal to his hero value against creatures that have taken lethal damage in the past minute.
Bolster: The warlord creates a small pool of temporary hit points equal to twice his hero value. These temporary hit points are removed first whenever an ally within the aura takes damage. If more than one ally takes damage from the same effect simultaneously, the warlord designates how the temporary hit points are distributed. The temporary hit points refresh each round.
Extending: The warlord grants a bonus on durations of spells that are longer than instantaneous cast within his aura: such effects last for an additional number of rounds equal to the warlord's hero value.
Focus: The warlord grants a bonus on saves versus mind-affecting effects equal to his hero value.
Guardian: The warlord grants a bonus on spells that restore hit point damage cast within his aura: such spells heal extra hit points equal to his hero value.
Lively: The warlord grants a bonus on damage rolls equal to his hero value against undead creatures.
Magical: The warlord grants a bonus on spell damage cast within his aura equal to his hero value.
Opportunity: The warlord grants a bonus on attack rolls made as part of an attack of opportunity equal to his hero value.
Persistence: The warlord grants a bonus on opposed combat checks (such as for a bull-rush) equal to his hero value.
Resistance: The warlord grants energy resistance to one type of energy (acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic) equal to twice his hero value.
Shield: The warlord grants DR/adamantine equal to his hero value.
Targeting: The warlord grants a caster level bonus to allied spellcasters who cast spells within the range of his aura equal to his hero value when determining the range of spells.
Triumph: The warlord creates a small pool of luck points equal to his hero value. Any ally may remove one of these points as an immediate action to reroll a saving throw, attack roll, or damage roll. These points, once consumed, are gone until the warlord has a chance to rest for five minutes.
Valiant: The warlord grants a bonus on attack and damage rolls made as part of a charge equal to his hero value.
Vigilance: The warlord grants a bonus on Awareness and Initiative checks equal to his hero value.


Auras of Command
Evasive Maneuvers: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range gain the Evasion ability.
Heroic Willpower: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range gain a competence bonus to all saves equal to the Warlord's Charisma modifier.
Incredible Resolve: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range heal hit points equal to the warlord's Charisma modifier after successfully damaging an enemy.
Indomitable Phalanx: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range gain a dodge bonus to their Armor Class equal to the warlord's Charisma modifier.
Overwhelming Assault: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range may substitute the warlord's Charisma modifier for their own statistic modifier for a class feature, racial feature, feat, spell, or spell-like ability that has a save DC. For instance, if a cleric casts a spell, it has a save DC of 10 + the spell's level + the cleric's Wisdom modifier. If the cleric is within the aura, he may substitute the warlord's Charisma modifier for his Wisdom modifier.
Rapid Advance: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range gain a competence bonus to speed equal to 5' times the Warlord's Charisma modifier.
Renewed Confidence: If any ally within the aura's range becomes shaken, panicked, or frightened while this aura is active, the warlord may make a Diplomacy or Intimidate check to grant them a second save; the warlord must beat the save of the original DC + 10 in order to grant his ally a second save: the ally's second saving throw (if any) is at the original DC.
Spell Shielding: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range gain Spell Resistance equal to 5 + the warlord's class level + the warlord's Charisma modifier.
Synchronized Strike: When this aura is active, all allies within the aura's range who prepare an attack to occur at the same time as another ally's attack causes both attacks to receive a bonus to damage equal to the Charisma modifier of the Warlord.
Timed Advance: When this aura is active and initiative is rolled to start combat, all allies within the aura's range may immediately move a number of squares less than or equal to your Charisma modifier. This ability does not alter the order of initiative and follows the normal rules for move actions.

Thinker
2010-08-27, 02:33 PM
I only have two comments about this right now. First, Tactical Leadership does not specify in the text at what levels the bonus increases, which can be a bit confusing. Second, there is very little that the Warlord offers to allied spell-casters. I appreciate that the class is martial in focus, but in a world where there are many spell-casters, a leader would be expected to be able to increase their effectiveness as well.

I recommend mechanisms for increasing spell range, redirecting/shaping spells, and possibly providing some sort of protection-type ability for the spell-caster. Formations could be a fun addition to the class (or for another class), too.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 03:01 PM
I only have two comments about this right now. First, Tactical Leadership does not specify in the text at what levels the bonus increases, which can be a bit confusing.Fix'd.

Second, there is very little that the Warlord offers to allied spell-casters. I appreciate that the class is martial in focus, but in a world where there are many spell-casters, a leader would be expected to be able to increase their effectiveness as well.

I recommend mechanisms for increasing spell range, redirecting/shaping spells, and possibly providing some sort of protection-type ability for the spell-caster.Added Targeting and Extending leadership auras.

Morty
2010-08-27, 03:06 PM
What I like the most about this version of the Warlord is the removal of the followers the previous version had. It might fit thematically - a knight followed by a squire and so on - but it's cumbersome in actual play and constraining when creating NPCs, I think. Not to mention potentially unbalancing.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 03:07 PM
What I like the most about this version of the Warlord is the removal of the followers the previous version had. It might fit thematically - a knight followed by a squire and so on - but it's cumbersome in actual play and constraining when creating NPCs, I think. Not to mention potentially unbalancing.

That was the main issue I ran into. The followers were either godawful or broken, no middle ground. I figured stripping them out but putting in a secondary aura mechanic would fit nicely, and it gave me an opportunity to introduce the hero value (HV).

You'll add your HV to your dodge AC and to your trained skills, and with the right feats to other things as well.

Esser-Z
2010-08-27, 03:08 PM
Mm, Marshal that works. Delicious.

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 03:32 PM
I am really not a fan of action grant mechanics -- they can be OK, but it's unclear exactly what a nonmagical character can do to hand someone a bonus standard action or a bonus move action.

Normally, I'd try to ignore it, but this particular case is also unnecessary -- the entire purpose of the action grant is as a 'Martial Arts and Crafts' ability to make the 'brilliant strategist who can't wipe his own backside' archetype playable as part of a small-scale party.

But why do that?

Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus did not run into cave complexes, kill loads of monsters, and leave laden down with piles of treasure. If they needed a cave complex raided, they'd send in a half-century of auxilia.

There's a place for a martial leader, but that martial leader doesn't have to be a strategist, and he should have actual things to do for himself, not action grants and character jacks.

Caesar, Crassus and Pompey would be "ordinarily NPCs" -- for your PC class, you're trying to make the optio or the centurion who'd lead that half-century of auxilia.

Lord_Gareth
2010-08-27, 03:36 PM
I dunno, last I checked, D20r had gotten rid of the dividing line between magical and nonmagical.

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 03:41 PM
I dunno, last I checked, D20r had gotten rid of the dividing line between magical and nonmagical.

I'm familiar with the "magic can justify everything" problem, but I don't think ignoring the need to justify things is the right solution. The right answer, IMHO, is to remember that just because magic can be given capability XYZ, it doesn't mean that it should.

From a game design perspective, that basically means getting your non-magical characters sorted first -- start with the power source for which it's hardest to justify, then move onto the less restrictive options, using them to fill in whatever you couldn't justify for the more restricted guys, but keeping the power level toned down.

Despite that, however, I probably wouldn't mind action grants if they had been necessary for balance or some similar reason. But they aren't, and there is no reason for them to be. The character archetype that would need action grants to be useful doesn't actually need to be playable.

Arbitrary action grants are bad. Seeing the guy who needed them in order to be playable raiding a cave complex? That's even worse.

Thinker
2010-08-27, 03:49 PM
I am really not a fan of action grant mechanics -- they can be OK, but it's unclear exactly what a nonmagical character can do to hand someone a bonus standard action or a bonus move action.

Normally, I'd try to ignore it, but this particular case is also unnecessary -- the entire purpose of the action grant is as a 'Martial Arts and Crafts' ability to make the 'brilliant strategist who can't wipe his own backside' archetype playable as part of a small-scale party.

But why do that?

Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus did not run into cave complexes, kill loads of monsters, and leave laden down with a treasure. If they needed a cave complex raided, they'd send in a half-century of auxilia.

There's a place for a martial leader, but that martial leader doesn't have to be a strategist, and he should have actual things to do for himself, not action grants and character jacks.

Caesar, Crassus and Pompey would be "ordinarily NPCs" -- for your PC class, you're trying to make the optio or the centurion who'd lead that half-century of auxilia.

I don't see this class as a strategist. I see it as a tactician. Tacticians are the ones who go into those abandoned fortresses and cave complexes. Granting extra actions does fit thematically without being necessarily magical.

Actions are an abstract for what a character can do in a fixed period of time. Extra attacks are granted as characters level up and become more proficient with weapons. This is mirrored (only without the penalty attributed to secondary attacks) with the Warlord's ability to command those around him; I imagine it works out like him guiding and instructing them to perform better. The extra standard action is an extension of this as the Warlord goes beyond what could be reasonably expected of a mundane leader.

the humanity
2010-08-27, 04:05 PM
War? War is how a man is made. some men crumple like autumn leaves before their foes, a weak obstacle on the battlefield. some men charge into the thick of it all bravely, and with speed and power they destroy many before they crumple. some men hide being magic and emerge from the battle as living cowards. I am different. With a mighty blade I stand besides my allies, boasting of our strength as the mightiest foes fall before us, and the blood runs faster than a mountain river to the feet of their generals.

in other words, I like it.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 04:10 PM
I'm familiar with the "magic can justify everything" problem, but I don't think ignoring the need to justify things is the right solution. The right answer, IMHO, is to remember that just because magic can be given capability XYZ, it doesn't mean that it should.

From a game design perspective, that basically means getting your non-magical characters sorted first -- start with the power source for which it's hardest to justify, then move onto the less restrictive options, using them to fill in whatever you couldn't justify for the more restricted guys, but keeping the power level toned down.

Despite that, however, I probably wouldn't mind action grants if they had been necessary for balance or some similar reason. But they aren't, and there is no reason for them to be. The character archetype that would need action grants to be useful doesn't actually need to be playable.

Arbitrary action grants are bad. Seeing the guy who needed them in order to be playable raiding a cave complex? That's even worse.

1. They're not magic, and they're not ordinary. Which is why the abilities are (Ex): they're extraordinary in all senses of the term.

2. Action grants are a good way for a leader-type to provide direct influence on combat immediately. Auras are indirect influence, and "bonus on next x action" actions are either stupidly lame or ridiculously lolverpowered. The 4e warlord does it just fine, I liked it there, and I like snake's swiftness and the mass version in my 3.5 game.

3. The warlord gets plenty of bonus feats, gets full BAB, gets the best rate of prowess (bar the dreadnaught's exception), and gets a decent skill list. Action granting is far from the only thing he can do, and passive buffing is also far from the only thing he can do. He's not going to be as good a combatant as a dreadnaught, rogue, hunter, or fencer (whose abilities are more directly pointed towards combat), but the warlord makes all of them better at what they do by virtue of being nearby. He is then able to provide secondary backup with his feats--and there's nothing that says he can't include himself in mass alacrity, for instance.

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 04:17 PM
I don't see this class as a strategist. I see it as a tactician. Tacticians are the ones who go into those abandoned fortresses and cave complexes. Granting extra actions does fit thematically without being necessarily magical.

Is there a consistent explanation for what's going on when the warlord gives someone a standard action? Because I don't see one.


Actions are an abstract for what a character can do in a fixed period of time.

I don't think actions are abstract enough to justify this -- and attacks have a pretty clear and consistent explanation (each attack represents an opening).


The extra standard action is an extension of this as the Warlord goes beyond what could be reasonably expected of a mundane leader.

But, again, bonuses handle this perfectly well, without causing people to start wondering what is going on. And there are even better -- easier to justify -- options if you absolutely have to give them active commanding abilities.

Attacks that debuff the target somehow, for example. Hitting someone in such a way that they provoke an attack of opportunity? Given what an attack is, that's easy to justify.

Thinker
2010-08-27, 04:25 PM
Is there a consistent explanation for what's going on when the warlord gives someone a standard action? Because I don't see one. Standard actions are way too varied for it.
Motivation and direction (which increases efficiency). Sports coaches motivate and direct all of the time. They get players to hustle and do more in the same amount of time.




I don't think actions are abstract enough to justify this -- and attacks have a pretty clear and consistent explanation (each attack represents an opening).
I don't recall reading that an extra attack is an extra opening. Six seconds is a long time in the heat of battle. I always interpreted it as the attacker becoming better at making better attacks. Again, with the coach analogy, a baseball hitting coach can iron out a player's swing, get a faster and smoother motion, and make him connect with the ball better.




But, again, bonuses handle this perfectly well, without causing people to start wondering what is going on. And there are even better -- easier to justify -- options if you absolutely have to give them active commanding abilities.

Attacks that debuff the target somehow, for example.

Bonuses are also boring. "Oh yeah, when you attack next time, don't forget your +1, which stacks with all of the other +1's I'm giving you." Attacks that debuff the opponent also don't fit very well thematically with a commander. "I hit this dude, now he can't hit as hard. Aren't I a great leader?"

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 04:26 PM
Is there a consistent explanation for what's going on when the warlord gives someone a standard action? Because I don't see one.The warlord moves into position and creates a new opening when the blue dragon turns to face him. "BLAST HIM NOW!" he yells, and the wizard casts fireball.


I don't think actions are abstract enough to justify this -- and attacks have a pretty clear and consistent explanation (each attack represents an opening).See above. The warlord is creating an opening (via distraction, direction, or otherwise).


But, again, bonuses handle this perfectly well, without causing people to start wondering what is going on. And there are even better -- easier to justify -- options if you absolutely have to give them active commanding abilities.+x to y stuff is boring when its' an active ability, which is why the warlord gets them as passives.

Lord_Gareth
2010-08-27, 04:47 PM
Do you intend on releasing d20r as a PDF at any point, Celestis?

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 05:00 PM
Responses spoilered for length:



The warlord moves into position and creates a new opening when the blue dragon turns to face him. "BLAST HIM NOW!" he yells, and the wizard casts fireball.

But doesn't have to pay for it.

And that's not what I was asking for (although I wasn't entirely clear) -- can you apply this explanation every single time?

What you just described is sensible -- but it could have potentially been "as an immediate action, the warlord can make someone take part of their next turn early".


See above. The warlord is creating an opening (via distraction, direction, or otherwise).

In some cases, I don't have an issue with attack grants, for that exact reason. But anything? In any situation?


+x to y stuff is boring when it's an active ability, which is why the warlord gets them as passives.

Which is fine, but I fail to see the need for active abilities that directly relate to leadership. The various passive abilities seem to evoke the basic idea behind the class. Not every aspect of a class' fluff needs to be echoed in its mechanics -- nor does the class' fluff need to permeate absolutely every single mechanic.


Motivation and direction (which increases efficiency). Sports coaches motivate and direct all of the time. They get players to hustle and do more in the same amount of time.

More of what they could already do.


I don't recall reading that an extra attack is an extra opening. Six seconds is a long time in the heat of battle. I always interpreted it as the attacker becoming better at making better attacks. Again, with the coach analogy, a baseball hitting coach can iron out a player's swing, get a faster and smoother motion, and make him connect with the ball better.

That's related to training.


Bonuses are also boring. "Oh yeah, when you attack next time, don't forget your +1, which stacks with all of the other +1's I'm giving you." Attacks that debuff the opponent also don't fit very well thematically with a commander. "I hit this dude, now he can't hit as hard. Aren't I a great leader?"

Part of being a tactician is being able to figure out how to improve your situation -- and, hopefully, being able to do it as well.

Overall, this is definitely an improvement on having action grants be all the class can do, and I don't think there's anything really wrong here except for that one mechanic, but I don't think I can like this class. It's not your fault -- you just managed to hit on one of the things that really annoys me.

Thinker
2010-08-27, 05:16 PM
More of what they could already do.
Ability to do, yes. Willingness to do maybe. People often have to be pushed to do what they are fully capable of.


That's related to training.
Partially, yes. Training is not reflected in DnD style rules. You never get bonuses for training. You can also be corrected mid-game and be pushed or motivated to reach back and do more at any time.



Part of being a tactician is being able to figure out how to improve your situation -- and, hopefully, being able to do it as well.

You could use this argument against essentially any class. A paladin is just a holy warrior. Why have a class when you can just have a fighter who role plays a certain way? A rogue is just a criminal. Why have a class when you can just have an expert who selects various rogue skills? A druid is just a priest who hangs out in the woods. Why have a class when you can just have a cleric with nature domains? Really this is an argument against classes altogether, but not one we should be having when the system is already intended to be class based.

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 05:26 PM
You could use this argument against essentially any class. A paladin is just a holy warrior. Why have a class when you can just have a fighter who role plays a certain way? A rogue is just a criminal. Why have a class when you can just have an expert who selects various rogue skills? A druid is just a priest who hangs out in the woods. Why have a class when you can just have a cleric with nature domains? Really this is an argument against classes altogether, but not one we should be having when the system is already intended to be class based.

A base class is a broad archetype -- broad enough that the same base class can be read in different ways. You do need to be careful to establish a distinctive identity for the class, but that doesn't need to be much, and you can make it up to a point.

Fax has already done a decent job as establishing the druid as not just a nature cleric, for example -- the way druids operate is now entirely different.

Even in WFRP, it's not seen as a good idea to make a whole new class to do something that's handled well enough by the 'counts as' principle.

Thinker
2010-08-27, 05:28 PM
A base class is a broad archetype -- broad enough that the same base class can be read in different ways. You do need to be careful to establish a distinctive identity for the class.

Fax has already done a decent job as establishing the druid as not just a nature cleric, for example.

Even in WFRP, it's not seen as a good idea to make a whole new class to do something that's handled well enough by the 'counts as' principle.

I think the diversity of auras and the composition of various parties will provide plenty of diversity between two warlords. Are you changing your argument from disliking the extra actions mechanic to disliking the number of available options open to the Warlord?

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 05:31 PM
I think the diversity of auras and the composition of various parties will provide plenty of diversity between two warlords. Are you changing your argument from disliking the extra actions mechanic to disliking the number of available options open to the Warlord?

No, I'm not. I'm trying to defend what I said earlier.

And I don't see the need to argue -- I'm simply pointing out that I don't like the class and explaining why.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 05:35 PM
Do you intend on releasing d20r as a PDF at any point, Celestis?

Yeah, when I finish classes, feats, skills and spells there'll be a compilation PDF.


What you just described is sensible -- but it could have potentially been "as an immediate action, the warlord can make someone take part of their next turn early".Why is that any more sensible than granting them an extra action?

In some cases, I don't have an issue with attack grants, for that exact reason. But anything? In any situation?Up to Cha mod times per day, certainly.

Part of being a tactician is being able to figure out how to improve your situation -- and, hopefully, being able to do it as well....and part of it is directing your team to a quicker victory.

lesser_minion
2010-08-27, 05:58 PM
Why is that any more sensible than granting them an extra action?

To me, what you described was someone doing something at the right time.

What the mechanic you attached to it describes is a lot more than that.

As I said, you've simply managed to hit on a mechanic that I personally happen to dislike. You don't need to justify it to me. If you think it's necessary, just stick with it. I'm not the only person out here that you're doing this for.

Besides, the one true way to design things involves ignoring any claim that something is the one true way to design things.

NekoIncardine
2010-08-27, 06:23 PM
The Wiki version of this page has been mildly edited and expanded to include a proficiencies list and an in-class-block description of the Hero Value mechanic.

Fax, if you could please put them into the thread version for ease of readability, that'd be nice. :)

Fax Celestis
2010-08-27, 06:26 PM
The Wiki version of this page has been mildly edited and expanded to include a proficiencies list and an in-class-block description of the Hero Value mechanic.

Fax, if you could please put them into the thread version for ease of readability, that'd be nice. :)

Added proficiencies. The Hero Value thing is actually not part of the class: it's a general feature.

IcarusWings
2010-08-27, 06:33 PM
I like the class. I do have one problem with the ability grants though, however it's not the same problem as Lesser Minion. My problem is that it's just not really fun to sit back letting over people get new actions. I know that with full BAB and a lot of prowess they can fight, but if say, the dreadnaught, is better at fighting then surely it's a better option to let them attack and move again, than attack and move yourself.
I don't think you should get rid of the action grants by any means, I just think you need to give them motivation to do something themselves rather than letting someone else do their schtick again.
Maybe some kind of Lead by Example ability? When you drop an enemy to 0 or lower hit points then your allies get a morale bonus on attack rolls for charisma modifier rounds? Something like that. Something to give them something to do, rather than just "I give the wizard all my actions, I do the same next round. See ya' I'm goin' to the restroom".

Xefas
2010-08-27, 06:47 PM
I like the class. I do have one problem with the ability grants though, however it's not the same problem as Lesser Minion. My problem is that it's just not really fun to sit back letting over people get new actions. I know that with full BAB and a lot of prowess they can fight, but if say, the dreadnaught, is better at fighting then surely it's a better option to let them attack and move again, than attack and move yourself.
I don't think you should get rid of the action grants by any means, I just think you need to give them motivation to do something themselves rather than letting someone else do their schtick again.
Maybe some kind of Lead by Example ability? When you drop an enemy to 0 or lower hit points then your allies get a morale bonus on attack rolls for charisma modifier rounds? Something like that. Something to give them something to do, rather than just "I give the wizard all my actions, I do the same next round. See ya' I'm goin' to the restroom".

In my opinion, there are a lot of classes. If you don't want to represent your character mechanically with this class, choose another. Personally, I have no problem with having a few abilities that let me sit back and let everyone else do the work. It's a playstyle I enjoy, and I imagine I'm not the only one. This class is for us.

In fact, I'd want the exact opposite - a class that does basically nothing on their own, is completely worthless without friends, and makes everyone else awesome. Not something I'd want to play in every single campaign (but very few classes are), but would definitely be fun for me.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 03:10 PM
Blinkfield
You have learned to emulate blink dogs' teleportation abilities with your aura of command.

Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +3

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of command called "Blinkfield". When this aura is active, allies (excluding yourself) within this aura of command may teleport to any other location within the aura as a move action.

Unlike most auras of command, this aura is a supernatural ability.

Displacement Aura
You have learned to emulate displacer beast's displacing abilities with your aura of command.

Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +3

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of command called "Displacement Aura". When this aura is active, allies within the aura of command gain 20% concealment. True seeing, arcane sight, or a similar effect negates the concealment.

Unlike most auras of command, this aura is a supernatural ability.

Discriminate Chaos
Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +2 or Kobold and Warlord level 1st

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of leadership called "Discriminate Chaos". When this aura is active, you create a small pool of points equal to your hero value. As an immediate action, any ally within the aura may draw one point out to add 1d4 damage per point of your Charisma modifier to an attack they just succeeded upon but before determining the damage. Removed points remain used until you have a chance to rest for five minutes regardless of whether or not this aura is active or inactive.

Hive Mind
Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +2 or Dromite and Warlord level 1st

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of leadership called "Hive Mind". When this aura is active, allies within your aura have telepathy with one another.

Unlike most auras of leadership, this aura is a supernatural ability.

Lucky Break
Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +2 or Halfling and Warlord level 1st

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of leadership called "Lucky Break". When this aura is active, you create a small pool of points equal to your hero value. As an immediate action, any ally within the aura may draw one point out to reroll any d20 roll they make for an attack roll, saving throw, or skill check after seeing the value but before determining the result. Removed points remain used until you have a chance to rest for five minutes regardless of whether or not this aura is active or inactive.

Pyrrhic Victory
Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +2 or Phoe-Kun and Warlord level 1st

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of leadership called "Pyrrhic Victory". When this aura is active, enemies within the aura who attack allies who are also within the aura take fire damage equal to your hero value.

Unlike most auras of leadership, this aura is a supernatural ability.

Savage Tide
Prerequisites: Tactical Leadership +2 or Gnoll and Warlord level 1st

Benefit: You gain an extra aura of leadership called "Savage Tide". When this aura is active, allies within the aura who kill an enemy cause all enemies who are within 10' of them to make a Will save (DC 10 + your hero value + your Charisma modifier) or be shaken for one minute. This ability cannot make a creature frightened or panicked, but other abilities may build off the shaken condition inflicted by this ability.

OzymandiasVolt
2010-09-02, 08:24 PM
Shore is IMMENSELY USEFUL AURAS in here.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-02, 08:40 PM
Shore is IMMENSELY USEFUL AURAS in here.

Thanks. :3 I'm trying to make the feat ones worth the feat.

Lord_Gareth
2010-09-02, 10:56 PM
Quick question - how much damage do you expect to be slung around in the average D20r game? Are immunities as cheap and common as in 3.5? If so, that fire aura seems rather less valuable, though highly flavorful.

lesser_minion
2010-09-03, 05:35 AM
Hmm... looking at the expanded list, I'm not entirely convinced that they're all balanced with each other -- Lucky Break, in particular, seems like it has the potential to be quite brutal at high levels (although it's at least not as bad as the 3.5 sorc's "OK, everyone in the party is now immune to the next attack, spell, or anything directed at them").

The displacement aura also allows anyone nearby to hide -- while that might not be quite so bad as being able to disappear entirely by carrying around a tower shield, it is a little odd.

Also, Hive Mind might need renaming -- currently, it conflicts with the ability that some monsters get, IIRC.