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Chauncymancer
2010-09-01, 03:19 PM
There's a similar thread to this on skills, but I want to expand on the idea:
When you look at buying a new game system or new splat for you old system, what do you look for first? What's the big deal-breaker for you?
Is it feats? NPCs? Maps? Cool stories? New mechanics?

Tyndmyr
2010-09-01, 04:06 PM
I just sorta flip through it and try to get a feel for it. Systems vary too much for me to say "feats" or something. Plus, settings can vary in some systems. There's really no perfect way. Gotta dig a bit.

Drakevarg
2010-09-01, 04:08 PM
I start becoming subconciously dismissive of a gaming system when it occurs to me that a particular setting is fundamentally tied in with the rules.

EDIT: Big ol' typo fix'd.

ghost_warlock
2010-09-01, 04:09 PM
Well, for starters, I'm never again going to pay for a Forgotten Realms product. :smalltongue:

(Excepting, of course, periodic DDI character builder updates in which I have no choice on the matter.)

Xefas
2010-09-01, 04:24 PM
If it has classes, I'm not gonna buy it. If 90% of the mechanics present have to do with physical combat, I'm not gonna buy it. If it lists 'balance' as its number 1 design goal, I'm not gonna buy it.

If it has experience, I'm gonna be iffy about it, depending upon how the system handles it. For instance, if my character only gets experience for succeeding on a given task, I'm not going to buy it.

If the game has no mechanics that explicitly reward, within the mechanics of the game, good roleplaying or storytelling or making the experience more awesome for everyone present, I'm not going to buy it.

That's where I stand right now. My expectations have changed over the years, certainly, with each new roleplaying system I played.

Dust
2010-09-01, 04:25 PM
This is slightly off-topic and rather ranty but...

Before I get into character creation, after reading the setting, I imagine my character. then, if I discover the system is incapable of allowing me to BUILD said character, I become dismissive of it.

For example, in Qin, The Warring States (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12349.phtml) RPG (a 'realistic' historical chinese rpg with demons and sorcerers), it is near-impossible to build a competent martial artist. While it makes sense from a logical standpoint, it sure sucks the fun out of the game; lots of us picked it up because we thought we could play Hero. For a system chock-full of otehrworld nasties, it sure does suck not being able to use any barehanded wuxia.

Likewise, in game systems where using two weapons is not an option. Yes, I understand that it's generally an inferior combat choice (whether guns or knives or whatever) to all but the most practiced masters, but that's not the point.

Also systems where important facets of the character - such as personality quirks or race or whatnot - are randomized? Turns me right off.

Drascin
2010-09-01, 04:29 PM
I start becoming subconciously dismissive of a gaming system when it occurs to me that a particular setting is fundamentally tied in with the rules.

EDIT: Big ol' typo fix'd.

Personally, the thing that has that effect on me is an insistence on "realism". Any game that insists on how it's "realistic" as a great thing, it's going to have to put a damn good show on the rest of my flicking through the book if it doesn't want to go back into the shelf.

Highly randomized character creation is also a turn-off, for all but the less involved games (in short: for a one-shot-focused game ala Paranoia? Acceptable. For a game that intends you to actually play with it for a while? Not a chance).

Vangor
2010-09-01, 04:29 PM
Lack of armor and proportions on the female concept art. Increase in the size of certain features or skin showing lead to increased interest in the game.

drengnikrafe
2010-09-01, 04:37 PM
I've found quite a few games have a start-up set or a light version of their own rules for free. In keeping with that, I find that a 1 session playtest with my friends will often tell me everything I want to know about a game, especially whether or not we find it fun.

Xefas
2010-09-01, 04:38 PM
Highly randomized character creation is also a turn-off, for all but the less involved games (in short: for a one-shot-focused game ala Paranoia? Acceptable. For a game that intends you to actually play with it for a while? Not a chance).

Oh yeah, definitely gotta go with that, too. Paranoia or Kobolds Ate My Baby work beautifully with randomized generation. Most other games...not so much.

Daremonai
2010-09-01, 04:47 PM
For me, a lot of it is mechanical variety. If it's skill-based, then I want the ability to branch out and learn new skills, not just improve my old ones. If it's class-based, then I want to be able to multiclass, or at least be able to pick up features from other classes.

One of the things that always chafed with D&D 1st/2nd ed. was that unless you had very impressive ability scores, you were stuck with whatever class choice you made at the start, and had no chance to branch out or even pick any area of focus besides weapon choice.

Gavinfoxx
2010-09-01, 04:51 PM
Anything that is of the type where a player can't choose what type of character they have in a broad manner, and be competent at that task.

I'm big on player empowerment! :) :)

Maeglin_Dubh
2010-09-01, 04:56 PM
Variety.

Whether in races, classes, weapons, customizability, I need to have a nice assortment of toys to play with.

Reis Tahlen
2010-09-01, 05:06 PM
1. Epicness: if I look at the world features and whisper: "Awesome", this is it. Example: me, a few years ago, holding the fresh Earthdawn core book and screaming like a little girl: "OMYGAWD FLYING CASTLES!! FREACKIN' FLYING BATTLE CASTLES!!!"

2. Complexity/Part of luck of the rules: the rules must be simple, and not too much luck dependent. Example of system I hate: WoD (simple, but BY GOD it's absolutely awful) and Ars Magica ("What do you mean, the rules for that specific spell are page 15, 46, 123 AND 301?!")

valadil
2010-09-01, 05:17 PM
I want a new system to do something new. For pseudo medieval high fantasy I've already got D&D and I'm happy with it. A new game has to fill a new niche.

For campaign settings, I want inspiration. I want to read the book and say "I want to go to there." Maps are nice and all, but I want to read the book and get unique ideas that I can't run anywhere else.

Vitruviansquid
2010-09-01, 05:31 PM
I start becoming subconciously dismissive of a gaming system when it occurs to me that a particular setting is fundamentally tied in with the rules.

EDIT: Big ol' typo fix'd.

I'm the exact opposite. If a game is about knights, I want it to have mechanics that make players feel like they're in a setting about knighthood. If the game is about Cthulhoid horrors, I want mechanics that feel Lovecraftian.

I don't have a problem with setting-less systems, like Savage Worlds (although you could say it's "pulp" at the end of the day), but I feel like the ability to play any setting to a mediocre degree of immersion isn't as valuable as playing one to a great degree of immesion.

Kiero
2010-09-02, 05:40 AM
Obviously, skills (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166606) is a major one for me.

The chargen mechanics. If it has random chargen, I'm leery, if that's the only option, no thanks. I don't play RPGs to have a character handed to me by the system with little or no input from me, the player (whether that's WFRP, old-school "3d6 in order" or whatever else). That tells me the author thinks the "game" starts with chargen, and that players wishes really don't matter. Neither are notions I subscribe to.

If it's point buy, I take a breath. If it's ridiculously granular, I'll pass thanks (GURPS, HERO, et al). That tells me that the author thinks chargen should be a game unto itself, and that I should also enjoy tinkering with stuff there. Which I don't, I view chargen as a necessary evil before getting to the real fun of playing with other people.

The dice resolution mechanic is another one. I hate single-die, dice pools bigger than five dice and percentile methods. I like character skill to matter more than chance, but I also like rolling dice not to be onerous.

misterk
2010-09-02, 05:45 AM
Hmm, I want to be able to roleplay, so I want a system to feel like it encourages that. I couldn't care less about character generation, but lots and lots of choosing combat type options put me off as I suspect the game will not be conductive to roleplaying. I like systems to be matched up to settings, because they invariably are anyhow. I want a game who's rules I can leave on the back burner and focus on the world I or my players shall inhabit.

Serpentine
2010-09-02, 05:46 AM
If it inspires me or not. If I can flick through some pages and start getting ideas for fun characters from bits and pieces of its material, I'm more willing to give it a shot.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-02, 05:58 AM
I view the rules and the game as two entirely seperae critieon. The rules ae there simply to facilitate the game, not define it. The rules imperfectly model the "reality" of the game world, and if a conflict arises, the "reality" wins out.

Thus, I am only interested in the mechanical function of a set of rules on it's own merits. Flexibility in application is important, by which I mean ease of adatpion to my own game worlds. My system of choice nowadays is 3.5 (though, considering the amount of house-rules and homebrew, I really should call it 3.A); previously (and still my second choice) it was Rolemaster, which has the advantage I can literally go anywhere and anywhen. Varity in character development is important, as is having a character having somewhere to "go" mechanically and improve. (I'm not keen on systems where character mechanical improvement is minimal or non-existant.)

I dislike systems that rely on lots-of-dice, generally (though they sometimes have their place; I used West End Games D6 Star Wars as a solid base for a very tongue-in-cheek superhero parody game). Roleplaying mechanics (of lack thereof) are not critically important - since I don't need rules to model that bit of "reality". (Social skills are useful to have to roll a variance on, but not more than that.)

The biggest things, though, is whether the designers have designed the rules to be applicable to my style of play (i.e. imperfect simulation of a real world) and have thought about and asked the correct questions in the rules model. (Most don't.) It would now take a massively incredible system to topple 3.5 from it's current perch (despite 3.5's numerous flaws, the pluses outweight the negatives, especially since I'll just fix those.)

Psyx
2010-09-02, 06:51 AM
I look at the character sheet.

Then I thumb through the book to see where and how much space in the book is taken up with: Background material, the combat system, character generation.

dsmiles
2010-09-02, 07:00 AM
Highly randomized character creation is also a turn-off, for all but the less involved games (in short: for a one-shot-focused game ala Paranoia? Acceptable. For a game that intends you to actually play with it for a while? Not a chance).

Exact opposite of this. I love highly randomized madness I mean, character creation. HoL is one of my top three favorite games ever, right after AD&D and Toon.

Dizlag
2010-09-02, 08:37 AM
I look at the character sheet.

I do this for a new system. 100%. A character sheet can tell you a lot about a gaming system. If the character sheet is simple, then there's a good chance the game system will be. You can see the skills list on the character sheet, ability scores, stats needed for combat, and race / class combo or lack there of.

For a splatbook, I look at the fluff to see if it works for me then the crunchy bits to see if it's tastes good. (Sorry, just finished reading the latest Iron Chef thread =).

Dizlag

Thefurmonger
2010-09-02, 08:43 AM
I just sorta flip through it and try to get a feel for it. Systems vary too much for me to say "feats" or something. Plus, settings can vary in some systems. There's really no perfect way. Gotta dig a bit.

+1 to this. There really isn't any one thing to look for, I give it a flip and see if anything catches my eye.

Mongoose87
2010-09-02, 08:53 AM
It's really quite hard to say. I'm an avid DnD'er, but there are some incredibly different games that appeal to me. It just needs that certain "Je ne sais quoi."

Tyndmyr
2010-09-02, 08:55 AM
Yeah, there's a few of these I generally agree with, but there's always an exception. For instance, I generally don't enjoy being told miniatures are REQUIRED to play, or randomized character traits, but I love Necromunda.

It's more a matter of if everything works together well. I do second the dislike of gurps & hero character creation. Both of those strike me as painful, not fun. If character creation requires me to use a calculator, that system is probably right out.

arrowhen
2010-09-02, 09:03 AM
Any indication that the game is an attempt to "fix D&D" is a major red flag for me, as are words like "realistic", "detailed", or "balanced", or long sections of introductory fiction.

The Big Dice
2010-09-02, 09:06 AM
Wow people are fussy about what they'll buy.

Me, I'll read the back of the book, then look at the character sheet for some odd reason. The sheet really doesn't help me make my mind up, but it does let me know if the game is cluttered and full of rules constructs. Usually.

I'll flick through the book, look at the artwork and skim things like character creation and combat. But I won't buy until after I've read some revies online. RPGs are too expensive to be impulse buys these days. Unless they've got a pedigree like Pendragon,and those calibre of games are few and far between.

Smell is very important in the decision process, but that's my own idiosyncracies showing. I like a book that smells good.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-02, 09:11 AM
It's the glue that makes it smell good.

Mmmm, glue.

pasko77
2010-09-02, 09:15 AM
I look at the character sheet.

Then I thumb through the book to see where and how much space in the book is taken up with: Background material, the combat system, character generation.

+1
Expecially how many skills/attributes there are in the sheet.

Too much detail, and I'm not going to buy it.
Too much fight-related stuff, and I'm not going to buy it.

Totally Guy
2010-09-02, 09:50 AM
I'll tell you what turns me off:

"If you don't like a number of rules in this system feel free to change them to suit your group."

I'm pretty much paying you to come up with the rules. Have some confidence in your system. Tell me how good it is!

Tyndmyr
2010-09-02, 09:52 AM
I'll tell you what turns me off:

"If you don't like a number of rules in this system feel free to change them to suit your group."

I'm pretty much paying you to come up with the rules. Have some confidence in your system. Tell me how good it is!

Agreed. I already know I can change the rules, if I want. It feels like a cop-out.

Thinker
2010-09-02, 09:53 AM
I'll tell you what turns me off:

"If you don't like a number of rules in this system feel free to change them to suit your group."

I'm pretty much paying you to come up with the rules. Have some confidence in your system. Tell me how good it is!

I'll remember this and, if I ever get around to writing a system, I'll add a clause that says: "If you wish to change any rules in this game, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!"

Kylarra
2010-09-02, 10:00 AM
The art gets an odd amount of input from me, I have a tendency to become biased about a system based on the pretty pictures that they think are iconic.:smallredface: Thus I will never play a wizard:smallamused: Tongue-in-cheek

Beyond that, it's mostly perusal and how the rules/setting/whatever resonates with stuff I like or dislike.

bokodasu
2010-09-02, 12:43 PM
I look at the character sheet.

Me too. If I'd found Mouse Guard in the store instead of ordering it online, I'd never have bought it. (And I'd be ok with that decision; it's too poorly put together to invest the time in a) learning it and b) teaching it to the kids I wanted to play it with. Easier to lift the setting and play with another system, which I could have just done by buying the comics but oh well, hindisght.)

Although for me I'd probably have to say organization/professionalism is the most important thing. If you can't figure out how to present your system clearly, you probably don't have a very good idea of what it's actually about. And if you don't know, how am I supposed to figure out if that's something I want to play?

Telonius
2010-09-02, 12:48 PM
There's a similar thread to this on skills, but I want to expand on the idea:
When you look at buying a new game system or new splat for you old system, what do you look for first? What's the big deal-breaker for you?
Is it feats? NPCs? Maps? Cool stories? New mechanics?

For an entirely new system? I don't buy it before trying it out. If it doesn't work in a real-world playtest with a group of people that I like, that's the deal-breaker.

The Big Dice
2010-09-02, 04:11 PM
The art gets an odd amount of input from me, I have a tendency to become biased about a system based on the pretty pictures that they think are iconic.:smallredface: Thus I will never play a wizard:smallamused: Tongue-in-cheek

Beyond that, it's mostly perusal and how the rules/setting/whatever resonates with stuff I like or dislike.

I like pretty pictures too. L5R 4th edition is full of them. It's also a little pricey at $60 or thereabouts, but you can get it for less if you shop around.

Endarire
2010-09-03, 12:14 AM
I check through it, and check boards. If it has something I want enough to buy, I get it. Mechanics are the seller. Fluff is mutable.

gomipile
2010-09-03, 01:03 AM
So, from the perspective of this thread, what systems have the best character sheets, and how is that then reflected in those systems?

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-03, 06:04 AM
So, from the perspective of this thread, what systems have the best character sheets, and how is that then reflected in those systems?

Interestingly, I have yet to find any system that has a satisfactory character sheet. I inevitably end up having to make one up. This is true for just about every RPG, I've played in the last twenty years, from AD&D, to Rolemaster, to D&D 3.x to 4E. Except, notably, Warhammer FRPG 1st edition, which is adequate to the task (I have lots of official sheets from their character builder pack that outweight the extra effort of making "adequate" better.).

Chrono22
2010-09-03, 06:07 AM
How much effort the writers put into a particular subject tells me alot about what their priorities are. Page space is usually limited. Organization of the subjects, and the order in which they appear, is also important.
If 50% of the page space is dedicated to a shuffle board combat resolution mechanic, it isn't a big leap to say the game is in large part about shuffle board combat.

Interestingly, I have yet to find any system that has a satisfactory character sheet. I inevitably end up having to make one up. This is true for just about every RPG, I've played in the last twenty years, from AD&D, to Rolemaster, to D&D 3.x to 4E. Except, notably, Warhammer FRPG 1st edition, which is adequate to the task (I have lots of official sheets from their character builder pack that outweight the extra effort of making "adequate" better.).
I feel the same way, with the exception of WFRPG, which I haven't had a chance to play yet.

Kurald Galain
2010-09-03, 06:16 AM
For a game, I'm generally more interested in its setting than its system, so I like a "main" book with lots of fluff in it (assuming it is good fluff, of course).

I think a charsheet says a lot about the system; a clean and elegant charsheet leaves a good first impression. Related is how much time is required to write the mechanical parts of a character; taking less than ten minutes is good.

Knaight
2010-09-03, 06:35 AM
I usually just read through the system, but I've specifically trained speed reading to allow for this and last minute cramming. And if I hate the prose, and the system delves immediately into mechanics, or things are poorly explained, it gets put down. Yes, you Exalted. Similarly, Burning Wheel was engaging enough because of mechanics and prose to push through the horrible organization, and that accurately predicted my appreciation for it. Fudge and Chronica Feudalis I read very quickly, and found engaging throughout (particularly Chronica Feudalis), and they are currently my favorite systems.

As for the character sheet, I usually keep one next to the book while I read it or open in a seperate PDF while I read the book PDF. It makes understanding things so much easier.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-03, 08:51 AM
How much effort the writers put into a particular subject tells me alot about what their priorities are. Page space is usually limited. Organization of the subjects, and the order in which they appear, is also important.
If 50% of the page space is dedicated to a shuffle board combat resolution mechanic, it isn't a big leap to say the game is in large part about shuffle board combat.

This is true.

Flipping through Hero....math, maths, more maths. Dear god, nothing specific whatsoever. Oh look, more math. I swear, if I see trig, I'm closing the book. Wait...why would anyone ever label this as fun? Screw this.

Quietus
2010-09-03, 09:47 AM
Not so much something I think about beforehand, but my biggest thing that I get pissed about if I can't find one, is the index. Really, RPG-makers? You couldn't devote one extra page to telling me how to quickly find things in a book intended to be used as reference?

Also, I'm turned off by big character sheets. The D&D group I play with now, if I'd been introduced to the game with those sheets... they're FOUR FREAKING PAGES. That's way too much. One page for the "everyone has this", and one for spells/powers, please. Anything more than that is way too much.

The Big Dice
2010-09-03, 10:16 AM
Not so much something I think about beforehand, but my biggest thing that I get pissed about if I can't find one, is the index. Really, RPG-makers? You couldn't devote one extra page to telling me how to quickly find things in a book intended to be used as reference?
+1 there. That's one of the things I love about GURPS. Fully indexed and cross referenced is a great thing in a Big Book 'o Rules.

Also, I'm turned off by big character sheets. The D&D group I play with now, if I'd been introduced to the game with those sheets... they're FOUR FREAKING PAGES. That's way too much. One page for the "everyone has this", and one for spells/powers, please. Anything more than that is way too much.
I like a bigger character sheet myself. But then I do use plastic wallets and folders to make little booklets out of them, and then write on the plastic with a dry erase marker for things that change a lot in play.

Psyx
2010-09-03, 10:31 AM
I find WoD the worst to typically flick through. Tons and tons of pretentious fluff in unreadable fonts, with bits of crunch buried randomly in side-boxes. No index, and chapter names that bear no real relevance to their contents. And don't talk to me about the re-touched photos that sometimes masquerade as interior art.

Aotrs Commander
2010-09-03, 03:20 PM
Not so much something I think about beforehand, but my biggest thing that I get pissed about if I can't find one, is the index. Really, RPG-makers? You couldn't devote one extra page to telling me how to quickly find things in a book intended to be used as reference?

And that's strike against Warhammer FRPG. They released the index for it in one of the expansions...

Tyndmyr
2010-09-03, 03:23 PM
Not so much something I think about beforehand, but my biggest thing that I get pissed about if I can't find one, is the index. Really, RPG-makers? You couldn't devote one extra page to telling me how to quickly find things in a book intended to be used as reference?

I would like to change my answer to this. When this happens, it really annoys me. I then immediately put the book back on the shelf, and move on to the next one.

Quietus
2010-09-03, 04:33 PM
I would like to change my answer to this. When this happens, it really annoys me. I then immediately put the book back on the shelf, and move on to the next one.

If I had money to buy books these days, yeah. It'd be my #1 thing to check. Unfortunately, being ridiculously poor leaves me lacking in game book funds.

@the WoD stuff.. yeah. I LOVE the amount of fluff and setting in the books... I hate how half of it is illegible. I can't remember if it was the core book or the Mage one I have, but I remember one or two pages of it having some kind of shadow effect, and I can't for the life of me tell if that's because of a misprint, or some "style" choice that just made that block of text eye-bleedingly bad.

Mark Hall
2010-09-04, 11:22 AM
Before 4e, I would've said I could tell by reading. After 4e, I'll say a play-through, provided the concept is interesting enough.

Kylarra
2010-09-04, 11:25 AM
I would like to change my answer to this. When this happens, it really annoys me. I then immediately put the book back on the shelf, and move on to the next one.Lack of index wouldn't be an immediate dealbreaker for me, but the game had better pretty darned amazing to make me want to buy it after that.

Knaight
2010-09-04, 11:39 AM
Lack of index wouldn't be an immediate dealbreaker for me, but the game had better pretty darned amazing to make me want to buy it after that.

Or just short. If Risus doesn't have an index, no big deal. If GURPS doesn't have an index, then we have an issue. If Fudge doesn't have an Index, well the core rules are 40 pages, its an irritation and had better be good. Of course, of the ones I listed the only one that actually lacks an index is Risus, as the guy who wrote Fudge had a GURPS background.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-04, 11:43 AM
Before 4e, I would've said I could tell by reading. After 4e, I'll say a play-through, provided the concept is interesting enough.

This is also a good point. I was stoked for 4e until I played it. Books were put together nicely, I liked the idea of them bringing back old themes. Much better art than 3.5. It wasn't until I actually played that we realized we hated it.

Mark Hall
2010-09-04, 11:51 AM
This is also a good point. I was stoked for 4e until I played it. Books were put together nicely, I liked the idea of them bringing back old themes. Much better art than 3.5. It wasn't until I actually played that we realized we hated it.

Actually, I'm the absolute opposite. I read it and it looked like a horrible system... I think I described it as "d20 Earthdawn without the charm." In play, however, it works pretty well... less fiddly than 3.x, and many of the rules worked very cleanly.

Kylarra
2010-09-04, 12:00 PM
Or just short. If Risus doesn't have an index, no big deal. If GURPS doesn't have an index, then we have an issue. If Fudge doesn't have an Index, well the core rules are 40 pages, its an irritation and had better be good. Of course, of the ones I listed the only one that actually lacks an index is Risus, as the guy who wrote Fudge had a GURPS background.
To be fair, those are also free. :smalltongue:

TheThan
2010-09-04, 12:20 PM
What do I look for?

Hmm I suppose the major factor I look for when looking at RPGs is fun factor. How much fun do I think I will have Dming this game? How much fun do I think Iíll have playing the game?
In order to figure this out, I typically flip through the rulebooks. I typically flip through the character creation section and the combat section. Sometimes Iíll flip through some other parts that seem important, the magic section or the gear section for instance. but usually i can tell by just the character creation section and the combat section. its kinda hard to describe what i'm looking for. i guess ease of use is one major draw, and how complicated combat is.

Halaster
2010-09-04, 12:45 PM
Tough question, particularly for a pathological collector like myself. Which leads to the obvious answer: if it's out of print, chances are I want one :smallwink:

Otherwise, I disdain the following kinds of games:
- games that tell me how special they are. Heck, it's a hobby! No amount of self-worship on part of the game designers (White Wolf, I'm looking at you) is going to change that. If I get a whiff of self-importance, it's off.
- games with a "twist". I'm a genre kind of person, and games that try to play a genre non-straight don't go on my shelves. Games like Shadowrun and 7th Sea that add fantasy because, well ... because - just suck. Sometimes it works, but I won't bet my money on it.
- "rules-light" games. Like someone said above, "you can alter all the rules as you please" is a cop out. So is "we made the rules compact and easy to learn". 90% of the time you can read that as "yuck. rules. we don't like 'em, so you don't get any. play any way you want", which is just as bad.

Give me a straight out game with all the rules it needs and good-natured fun as its motto and you make me a happy man. Pendragon is the archetype of my game. So into its genre it stops just short of silly, highly specialized, but complete rules, and no pretensions of artsy fancyness.

Knaight
2010-09-04, 12:56 PM
To be fair, those are also free. :smalltongue:

Fudge still has an index in both the free version and the not free 10th anniversary edition. And Risus doesn't need one, full stop, its about 4 pages.

Kylarra
2010-09-04, 12:58 PM
Fudge still has an index in both the free version and the not free 10th anniversary edition. And Risus doesn't need one, full stop, its about 4 pages.Yeah, but neither is the type of book I'd be perusing on a shelf, full stop. Since both come in free form, indexing or lack thereof is irrelevant if I'm not paying for it, though partially relevant in terms of if I'd ever play it.

Ihouji
2010-09-04, 01:33 PM
Generally all I look for in book is mechanical stuff. My group always plays in homebrew worlds anyway, we just kind of make it up as we go along and put it on the map as we go. Setting books are useless to us unless the also happen to have a new class or races or cool monsters I don't even consider it. We just take from everything and mash it up how ever we like. Sort of like "You want to be a D&D wizard in the future with laser guns and space ships? sounds cool to me" sort of thing.

Its really all about finding the system we like since everything else can just be hammered out and plied to any system you want with a minuet amount of work, house rules, and imagination.