PDA

View Full Version : Anything wrong with medium saves? (DD&D 3.5)



Mystic Muse
2010-09-02, 02:26 PM
Not sure whether this goes here or the RPG forum. I figured here since Medium saves don't exist in RAW D&D. I was just wondering if there would be any balance issues with medium saves instead of just poor and good.

Temotei
2010-09-02, 02:43 PM
Not really. It's just kind of weird to have something different. If there's justification available for a medium save progression, that's fine, but most people prefer good and bad.

Balance does depend more on the class features than the chassis, though. I wouldn't worry about it if you really want to use medium saves, but personally, I prefer just giving good and bad saves. If you want to create a medium save, you could give them Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes/Iron Will/some ability that gives a bonus to a saving throw equal to 1/4 class levels...

Golden-Esque
2010-09-02, 02:47 PM
Not really. It's just kind of weird to have something different. If there's justification available for a medium save progression, that's fine, but most people prefer good and bad.

Balance does depend more on the class features than the chassis, though. I wouldn't worry about it if you really want to use medium saves, but personally, I prefer just giving good and bad saves. If you want to create a medium save, you could give them Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes/Iron Will/some ability that gives a bonus to a saving throw equal to 1/4 class levels...

I agree. Its always better to find a way to make useless feats useful then grant a major overhaul with minor effects :).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-02, 02:50 PM
Medium saves are perfectly fine. +6/+9/+12 should be it though...that's as far as you should ever deviate from the norm, for the sake of simplicity.

Another way to go about medium saves can be seen in the Scout class and the Swashbuckler, as, through class features, both effectively have a +9 save without having to show the strange +9 progression (Battle Fortitude and Grace provide the extra +3 bonus over the course of 20 levels, although I forget at exactly which levels the bonus is granted). This method is my preferred method, as I find it a more elegant solution, but either solution works.

lesser_minion
2010-09-02, 03:04 PM
The only problem is that the formula starts getting weirder than most people would like -- 1 + (5/12) level.

It's almost certainly easier to just offer extra increases at certain levels, as Djinn suggested.

Glimbur
2010-09-02, 04:21 PM
The only drawback to class features that make you effectively have a medium save is that generally the bonus from the class feature does not count as a base save. This makes it more difficult to qualify for feats, PrC's, etc. That is not a huge deal, but it is a consideration.

DracoDei
2010-09-02, 04:46 PM
I am in favor of the use of medium saves where appropriate, certainly in comparison to miscellanious class bonuses. If you are worried about confusing people use "Will Save*" instead of "Will Save" in the table and explicitly call it out in the footnote below the table.

Zhalath
2010-09-02, 09:01 PM
The only drawback to class features that make you effectively have a medium save is that generally the bonus from the class feature does not count as a base save. This makes it more difficult to qualify for feats, PrC's, etc. That is not a huge deal, but it is a consideration.

Not many PrCs or feats use base save as a prerequisite. The only one that springs to mind is Survivor, a la Savage Species, and that has a maximum save bonuses. And I don't really get why you'd take Survivor levels, when you can take a couple rogue levels, and get some of the stuff, but with way more skills and a better BAB than +0.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-02, 09:15 PM
Ur-Priest has a Base Fort Save +5 and Base Will Save +5 requirement. Only one I can think of.

I agree with Fax, personally - I think it's better to go with class features.

Cieyrin
2010-09-03, 02:32 PM
You have to dig through some of the more obscure books for Save requirements, like the greater toughness chain from Masters of the Wild requiring Fortitude bonii and that sort of thing. It's not usually that big a deal, really, so I don't think it usually matters, hence why Battle Fortitude and Grace work fine as is.