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The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-05, 02:24 PM
I was glancing around... and from what I can tell these forums right here get more 3.5 homebrew than any other forums I've yet found, including Wizards themselves.

This is pretty impressive http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


Consider this the 'Chat' thread for the homebrew forums.

Vaynor
2010-09-05, 02:25 PM
I think you might have something to do with that. :smalltongue:

Debihuman
2010-09-05, 03:46 PM
I agree. Wizard's site isn't as user friendly. I tried EnWorld but never got much feedback. Paizo's site is busy too, but not as much homebrewing.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-05, 03:48 PM
We have a ton of highly active and highly skilled homebrewers who offer excellent critique and produce a vast number of creations. This means we have a constant stream of work, and are a welcoming community to relative beginners. Thus, tons and tons of homebrew. :smallbiggrin:

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 04:38 PM
I don't know. ENWORLD has a very large amount of Homebrew in the Creature Catalog.

Vaynor
2010-09-05, 04:44 PM
We have too much homebrew for a successful "Creature Catalog" to have ever been created. :smallcool:

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 04:46 PM
We have too much homebrew for a successful "Creature Catalog" to have ever been created. :smallcool:

Maybe, but unless I'm mistaken, over at EN WORLD, the CC was created first, then the Homebrew, not the other way around.

Vaynor
2010-09-05, 04:47 PM
I assumed the Creature Catalog was a compendium (much like the attempted Homebrew Compendium on these boards). Is that incorrect?

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 04:50 PM
Mnmmh. Yes and no. Stuff is always being added, so not exactly. It's never finished at least.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-05, 04:53 PM
I don't know. ENWORLD has a very large amount of Homebrew in the Creature Catalog.
Yeah, but that's all they have. I stopped going over because there was maybe a single post a day in their homebrew forums.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 04:56 PM
Well, there's also the D&D Legacy & 4E House Rules sections.

Stycotl
2010-09-05, 05:03 PM
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=b12r4ndbo9q21ltc8ro8or49b2&board=39.0

this is pretty good, but not like the giantitp group. that is the primary reason i joined this site as opposed to the others back in 07.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-05, 05:04 PM
Well, there's also the D&D Legacy & 4E House Rules sections.
Yeah, but from looking at it just now it appears in the last 24 hours we have had several times as many posts as they do in all of those put together.

I also use to post my monsters over there. Still looks like maybe a post every other day or so.

Think we may still reign as homebrewiest :smallwink:

Nero24200
2010-09-05, 05:09 PM
I think this site has alot of homebrew because the people are generally friendly and have a keener eye for balance compared to some other forums I've seen.

I know I'd rather have my homebrew work critiqued here rather than elsewhere.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 05:22 PM
I know I'd rather have my homebrew work critiqued here rather than elsewhere.

:smallconfused:

Why would you limit yourself to only 1 site? Post it everywhere.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-05, 05:29 PM
:smallconfused:

Why would you limit yourself to only 1 site? Post it everywhere.

Same reason a steak lover would limit themselves to a perfectly cooked filet mignon instead of also eating a charred-black tough-as-leather cut and a raw, blood-dripping fresh cut. No need to sully your taste buds with inferior product when you can get the best.:smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-05, 05:29 PM
:smallconfused:

Why would you limit yourself to only 1 site? Post it everywhere.

Quality over quantity. :smallbiggrin:

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-05, 05:39 PM
Quality over quantity. :smallbiggrin:

Uh, why not both.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-05, 05:42 PM
Uh, why not both.
For me, because I've yet to get critiques on other websites. Simple as that. Part of the reason for me posting this thread was to see if anyone knew of additional forums for me to get feedback from.

So far I've been shown two sites I've already tried.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-05, 05:43 PM
Uh, why not both.

Do we look like Orks to you?:smallamused:

Vaynor
2010-09-05, 05:44 PM
Why not both? I tried posting on WotC a while back and I didn't get a single response for my homebrew. How many responses did I get here? 3 pages.

I just don't see the point, I guess.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-05, 05:55 PM
I've gotten a reasonable amount of feedback on the things I've posted on the new D&D Wiki.

Mulletmanalive
2010-09-05, 06:07 PM
I think part of it is that there isn't a "holy grail" amongst us here.

My tenure at BrilliantGamologists was short, about 4 posts, because I was treated like the enemy because I consider the writings of Frank and K to be basically anti-fun [I can see why people like it, but I like to kill magic rather than elevate other things].

Here, one can say "I like tier 4" and while people might say that it's strange but you'll get considered advice and suggestions. I like that and I'm sure other do too :smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-05, 06:11 PM
I think part of it is that there isn't a "holy grail" amongst us here.

My tenure at BrilliantGamologists was short, about 4 posts, because I was treated like the enemy because I consider the writings of Frank and K to be basically anti-fun [I can see why people like it, but I like to kill magic rather than elevate other things].

Basically, this. Sure, some of us profess certain theories of homebrew, and defend or suggest them (I myself am very guilty of this), but we don't hold things that sacred (although some people seem to be held sacred...Tribble, Krimm, and Demented One, I'm looking at you. :smallbiggrin:). With the people though, it's definitely deserved, and if someone has a conflicting opinion, nobody is going to kill anyone over it.

Zaydos
2010-09-05, 06:17 PM
It was the homebrew on this board that got me lurking on them (it might have been Kyuedo's truenamer fix, or some of the homebrewed martial disciplines as I was working on one at the time) and later on actually got me posting on them. Can't really say I spend much time on other forums, though.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-05, 06:21 PM
but we don't hold things that sacred (although some people seem to be held sacred...Tribble, Krimm, and Demented One, I'm looking at you. :smallbiggrin:).
Pfftt, don't even.

I get ragged good and proper plenty of times. Should see my Demolisher PrC. At least one guy was banned things got so heated during a homebrew discussion and I think I got a warning, though managed to keep my temper.

Everyone is free to critique my fur off, just be warned I bite back if I disagree :smallwink:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-05, 07:19 PM
Pfftt, don't even.

I get ragged good and proper plenty of times. Should see my Demolisher PrC. At least one guy was banned things got so heated during a homebrew discussion and I think I got a warning, though managed to keep my temper.

Every deity has those who deny it. :smalltongue:

Jogi
2010-09-06, 01:49 AM
The truth is that there has been much win in these forums. May the gods bless all you brewers!

Fako
2010-09-06, 01:54 AM
The truth is that there has been much win in these forums. May the gods bless all you brewers!

Seconded. Part of the reason I still run a D&D game is to try things out I find on here... currently have a d20r Rogue and Cleric in a party with an old Dragoon build, while the Rogue has DragoonWraith's Invoker class as a cohort... you never know what you can find on here...

Schylerwalker
2010-09-06, 04:22 AM
Oh, I'm sure they could be more homebrewy. Keep posting, Playgrounders!

Andion Isurand
2010-09-06, 04:24 AM
Giant in the Playground
verifiable "place of the way" for homebrew jutsu

Latronis
2010-09-06, 06:16 AM
well a lot of forums have a very elitist attitude vein running through thats not so prevalent here. :smallbiggrin:

DaTedinator
2010-09-06, 11:34 AM
Not to sound like a suck-up or anything, but I think a lot of the reason this forum is so much better than so many others is the administration. The rules here are much more thought out, and much better enforced than on a lot of forums. It helps keeps things focused.

Of course, the vibrant, helpful community is most of it, but I feel like the rules helped make the community the way it is. For example, prohibiting any judgement of people - for good or ill - based on post count may not have affected anything. However, looking at the facts that veterans here are much more helpful to newbies, and that we don't get a lot of posts-just-for-the-sake-of-posting (at least, not compared to other forums), it's easy to see a possible connection.

Crossfiyah
2010-09-06, 01:29 PM
It's probably because everyone else has moved on.

This forum is the equivalent of Western Pennsylvania.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-06, 01:37 PM
It's probably because everyone else has moved on.

Moved on from what?

Zaydos
2010-09-06, 01:39 PM
Moved on from what?

I'm guessing from 3.5. Does that mean they've moved to 4e? I know some people who prefer 4e, but a fair bit of the people I know still prefer 3.5.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-09-06, 01:40 PM
well a lot of forums have a very elitist attitude vein running through thats not so prevalent here. :smallbiggrin:

The idea behind this thread is, at least some what, elitist.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-06, 01:52 PM
The idea behind this thread is, at least some what, elitist.
I beg to differ. I was asking if there were any that approached these forums in the level and quality of homebrew.

If not, where are the leaders, and if so, well done to all who made us a great font of work and creativity.

Milskidasith
2010-09-06, 02:00 PM
Seeing as I account for like 80, maybe 90% of the critique on PrCs on this board... :smalltongue:

Nah, I'm kidding. This place is really great, though, especially because, for all the balance problems I bring up, for the most part all the stuff I'm not posting on *is* probably pretty balanced, compared to other sites (D&D wiki) where stuff is just nutty. Dungeons Wikia (or whatever the site was) wasn't bad either, last I checked.

That, and this site gets a continuous influx of people who read OotS, so there's more to bring people into the community.

Zaydos
2010-09-06, 02:08 PM
Seeing as I account for like 80, maybe 90% of the critique on PrCs on this board... :smalltongue:

Nah, I'm kidding. This place is really great, though, especially because, for all the balance problems I bring up, for the most part all the stuff I'm not posting on *is* probably pretty balanced, compared to other sites (D&D wiki) where stuff is just nutty. Dungeons Wikia (or whatever the site was) wasn't bad either, last I checked.

That, and this site gets a continuous influx of people who read OotS, so there's more to bring people into the community.

This is why I'm always glad when you don't post on something I made. It generally means it's broken if you do. I've actually gotten in the habit of if a PrC looks broken at first glance reading to find your critique (if there is one) before bothering to read all the abilities in depth.

Also why I am very wary of homebrew from D&D wiki but tend to trust things on this forum that have been put through being PEACH'd.

Aran Banks
2010-09-06, 02:27 PM
We sound like we're describing colleges....

Mulletmanalive
2010-09-06, 04:00 PM
We sound like we're describing colleges....

do you mean Colleges - places of higher learning - or Colleagues - people that we work with?

We probably could run a College on the subject of games design; there are establishments in Finnland that have such courses and I can't see any circumstance where you'll find better objective comparison of theoretical power levels that here.

Colleagues, well, when someone helps you out of common interest but you don't know them all that well, that's more or less what they are, isn't it?

The Glyphstone
2010-09-06, 04:22 PM
Not to sound like a suck-up or anything, but I think a lot of the reason this forum is so much better than so many others is the administration. The rules here are much more thought out, and much better enforced than on a lot of forums. It helps keeps things focused.

Of course, the vibrant, helpful community is most of it, but I feel like the rules helped make the community the way it is. For example, prohibiting any judgement of people - for good or ill - based on post count may not have affected anything. However, looking at the facts that veterans here are much more helpful to newbies, and that we don't get a lot of posts-just-for-the-sake-of-posting (at least, not compared to other forums), it's easy to see a possible connection.

*moves finger off "Vaporise DaTedinator" button.:smallbiggrin:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-06, 10:09 PM
Isn't helping Enworld any that at least half the time I go over the site is down :smallconfused:

Bhu
2010-09-07, 12:20 AM
Most of the feedback I get is here of the Brilliant Gameologist Forums. Wizards is a tomb, and Im in too many boards, forums, groups, what have you on other subjects to join more rpg forums than this right now.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-07, 12:23 PM
Most of the feedback I get is here of the Brilliant Gameologist Forums.
I tried those forums but it keeps saying I'm a bot...


On another note, as an expirement, 48 hours ago I posted something to several other main D&D homebrew sites. No response, and no posts since mine. I'm beginning to wonder if we're not the homebrewiest, but the only one still going strong.

mrcarter11
2010-09-07, 12:27 PM
So, who would we say are the most well known homebrewers on this site?

Morph Bark
2010-09-07, 12:33 PM
For me, because I've yet to get critiques on other websites. Simple as that. Part of the reason for me posting this thread was to see if anyone knew of additional forums for me to get feedback from.

So far I've been shown two sites I've already tried.

Agreed. I joined the WotC forums first but found them lacking, especially after their makeover, plus here there is more traffic. The same prettymuch goes for ENWorld, where I found there wasn't enough either. Plus, the atmosphere here is friendly. :smallsmile:

Fax Celestis
2010-09-07, 12:35 PM
We have too much homebrew for a successful "Creature Catalog" to have ever been created. :smallcool:

We tried. Anyone else remember Monsters in the Playground?

Gralamin
2010-09-07, 12:41 PM
We tried. Anyone else remember Monsters in the Playground?

Yes. And Footprints. And the Compendium. :smallbiggrin:

That said, I really need to dig back into homebrewing and start posting stuff again. I've gotten into a bad habit of never finishing things.

Admiral Squish
2010-09-07, 12:46 PM
Wasn't somebody working on a 'phoenix' magazine?

Bhu
2010-09-07, 12:49 PM
I tried those forums but it keeps saying I'm a bot...


You never got to post or something else? If there's something wrong I should tell the owners.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-07, 01:12 PM
You never got to post or something else? If there's something wrong I should tell the owners.
I couldn't register. Every time I tried it'd say something like 'VT at email is a bot at <ip adress>. Notifying admins'

arguskos
2010-09-07, 01:17 PM
Wasn't somebody working on a 'phoenix' magazine?
Temotei is/was/may still be. I dunno. PM him about it, if you're interested.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-07, 01:27 PM
*moves finger off "Vaporise DaTedinator" button.:smallbiggrin:
Is it a customisable button, or do you have one specifically for DaTedinator? Or is there just a colossal console with everyone's name on their own individual button?


So, who would we say are the most well known homebrewers on this site?

Krimm Blackleaf & The_Demented_One tend to be beyond recrimination with regard to their homebrew, which is almost always exquisite.

Fax Celestis & Vorpal Tribble are awesome and consistent with quality. DragoonWraith, Temotei & Arguskos also rocksor my socksors.

Then there's Zeta Kai's Final Fantasy X-d20 that made me want to marry him/her.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-07, 01:29 PM
Hrm. That being the case, might you get my name right? Heh.

:smallmad: Damn this new keyboard, screwing with my spelling. I'll change my post, feel free to add an I into your quote so I look like less of an idiot.

The S was me just being dumb.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-07, 01:31 PM
*whistles* What are you talking about? I don't see any 's'... nor you being an idiot.

Don't worry about it.

BRC
2010-09-07, 01:32 PM
I havn't spent much time on other homebrew boards, but I love the sense of community here, especially with community world-building. I don't know how many boards could have spawned a setting like Ishka for example.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-07, 01:58 PM
Krimm Blackleaf & The_Demented_One tend to be beyond recrimination with regard to their homebrew, which is almost always exquisite.

Krimm used to send me his stuff to go over for his posting. Haven't heard from him in awhile or seen his stuff.

Vaynor
2010-09-07, 02:05 PM
We tried. Anyone else remember Monsters in the Playground?

Oh yes, we've tried many a time. It's just never worked in the long run.

arguskos
2010-09-07, 02:08 PM
Krimm Blackleaf & The_Demented_One tend to be beyond recrimination with regard to their homebrew, which is almost always exquisite.

Fax Celestis & Vorpal Tribble are awesome and consistent with quality. DragoonWraith, Temotei & Arguskos also rocksor my socksors.

Then there's Zeta Kai's Final Fantasy X-d20 that made me want to marry him/her.
These are all great posters, but I don't really think I deserve such august company. Hell, I've only posted like five things of note, and that's probably an inflated number.

I would add Xefas, ErrantX, afroakuma, and Bhu as good brewers. I do want to call out Milskidasith though, both for being the grouchiest person alive (:smalltongue:) and for always giving it to the poster straight, which I respect greatly and which helps foster a strong environment for brew.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-07, 02:16 PM
These are all great posters, but I don't really think I deserve such august company. Hell, I've only posted like five things of note, and that's probably an inflated number.

I would add Xefas, ErrantX, afroakuma, and Bhu as good brewers. I do want to call out Milskidasith though, both for being the grouchiest person alive (:smalltongue:) and for always giving it to the poster straight, which I respect greatly and which helps foster a strong environment for brew.

What can I say, I liked your classes.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-07, 02:44 PM
These are all great posters, but I don't really think I deserve such august company. Hell, I've only posted like five things of note, and that's probably an inflated number.

Maybe you're not that high (I couldn't say, personally, as I haven't seen a wide array of your work), but you're at least damn close. The stuff you do post is often excellent.

The Glyphstone
2010-09-07, 02:56 PM
I used to be quite the 'brewer back in my own day, but those times are long past. Most of my best stuff got wiped in the last Forum Purge, so it was ancient.

arguskos
2010-09-07, 02:57 PM
Maybe you're not that high (I couldn't say, personally, as I haven't seen a wide array of your work), but you're at least damn close. The stuff you do post is often excellent.
I don't have a wide array of work, which is why. :smalltongue:

Also, where is Djinn in that list? He's a pretty chill fellow, or so I've been informed. :smallamused:

I'd also nominate zenanarchist for this list of probrewers, just cause though his work isn't amazing, he makes a lot of it and really tries to improve it, a laudable attitude, one that not everyone (including myself) has all the time.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-07, 03:02 PM
Also, where is Djinn in that list? He's a pretty chill fellow, or so I've been informed. :smallamused:

I've no idea, honestly. Personally, I think I'm pretty damn good, but then again...well...I'm biased. :smalltongue:

I'll leave my place on the list to others in a better position to be objective.

arguskos
2010-09-07, 03:03 PM
I've no idea, honestly. Personally, I think I'm pretty damn good, but then again...well...I'm biased. :smalltongue:

I'll leave my place on the list to others in a better position to be objective.
I'd vote for him. I mean, he's an alcoholic beverage, who wouldn't? :smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-07, 03:04 PM
I mean, he's an alcoholic beverage, who wouldn't? :smallbiggrin:

I'm a delicious 210 Proof. :smallbiggrin:

Zaydos
2010-09-07, 03:09 PM
I'd vote for Djinn.

arguskos
2010-09-07, 03:11 PM
I'm a lethal 210 Proof. :smallbiggrin:
Fixed that for you.

Warning: Djinn may cause blindness, nausea, feelings of awesomeness, and death. Use only in small doses or as directed by your doctor.

Kobold-Bard
2010-09-07, 03:30 PM
I'd vote for Djinn.

I knew there was someone else I wanted to add, but I couldn't remember who (I know people by avatar and I know Djinn by his water cooler bottle, this one confuses my mind).

Milskidasith
2010-09-07, 04:19 PM
Though the other avatar looked amazing, I am fairly glad he no longer has the creepy djinn avatar. It was... creepy. Yes, I know that's not a very good use of words.

I... have no clue who to nominate that hasn't already been brought up. Temotei? Doc Roc? The latter hardly posts stuff, but what stuff there is, is always pretty well balanced.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-07, 04:21 PM
Though the other avatar looked amazing, I am fairly glad he no longer has the creepy djinn avatar. It was... creepy. Yes, I know that's not a very good use of words.

Rutskarn is a master of his craft. His craft being painting, and creepiness.

Latronis
2010-09-07, 04:29 PM
I must agree, not the biggest fan of the previous djinn closeup.

Not to mention it completely laked the In_Tonic-ness

Vaynor
2010-09-07, 04:58 PM
I've no idea, honestly. Personally, I think I'm pretty damn good, but then again...well...I'm biased. :smalltongue:

Aren't we all? :smallamused:

And I agree, I much prefer the non-creepy Djinn. :smallwink:

DragoonWraith
2010-09-07, 05:49 PM
I preferred the even-older Djinn, it looked happier. It amused me.

And Djinn not only gets my 'vote', he'd probably be my choice for #1. He has excellent work.

Also, I second the comment about Milski - this place would not be nearly as good for homebrew without his extensive, well thought out commentary.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-07, 06:12 PM
Then there's Zeta Kai's Final Fantasy X-d20 that made me want to marry him/her.

Too bad he's taken. :smallwink:

I used to be quite the 'brewer back in my own day, but those times are long past. Most of my best stuff got wiped in the last Forum Purge, so it was ancient.

Didn't you do a poison based PrC? The Venomrazor or something?

DracoDei
2010-09-07, 09:04 PM
We tried. Anyone else remember Monsters in the Playground?
I do, and I hope that when enough money is available, a lawyer will be hired so that my undead may be found in dead-tree format... which reminds me... how, if at all, can I give the go ahead to Alchemy Prime to make Prime20 versions of them without ruining the chance for them to still be in Monsters in the Playground when and if that actually happens?

Too bad he's taken. :smallwink:


Didn't you do a poison based PrC? The Venomrazor or something?

I suspect you might be mixing up his Venom-smith and my Snake-Blade in your head... they were both in the same thread, and both seemed well received.

Bhu
2010-09-07, 11:10 PM
I couldn't register. Every time I tried it'd say something like 'VT at email is a bot at <ip adress>. Notifying admins'

Wow. Lemme see if I can fid out what happened.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-07, 11:13 PM
I used to be quite the 'brewer back in my own day, but those times are long past. Most of my best stuff got wiped in the last Forum Purge, so it was ancient.
Actually I'm about positive it's still there. I did a google search for my stuff and found it all cached awhile back when I made my compendium. However, the cache also linked to the actual page.

You can't find it with the forum search.

Gimme a creation and let's test it.


Wow. Lemme see if I can fid out what happened.http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Gralamin
2010-09-08, 12:23 AM
Doc Roc? The latter hardly posts stuff, but what stuff there is, is always pretty well balanced.

Having worked with Doc Roc, I can definitely agree with this. Sure sometimes he misses the little stuff, or leaves things missing vital information, but it is overall quite well done, and when he bothers to format it, quite a pleasurable read.

peacenlove
2010-09-08, 01:21 AM
Well being a lurker both here and in the old wizards threads i must say that i am glad that i found this site when i did because the sheer amount of homebrew around here has rivaled (and in many cases exceeded) the quality of good 3.5 edition books.
Because every time i log in i find something new to throw to my players as a DM, or a new character idea both mechanically and fluff wise. From Realms of chaos brilliant Descent of shadows project to Krimm's and Demented one Nation of the Dead campaign setting to the homebrew tome of battle compilation of disciplines you have seriously expanded my view on D&D and the quality of my games. And there are others of course too many to mention (and i still have interesting homebrew to read like Fax's d20r and vorpal tribble's monsters and stuff)
Also i second the critiques in the homebrew section. My meager homebrew has received much more critiques than deserved.

And i thank you for that :smallsmile:

Roland St. Jude
2010-09-08, 01:24 AM
well a lot of forums have a very elitist attitude vein running through thats not so prevalent here. :smallbiggrin:

Well, at least not before this thread was started. :smallwink:


Rutskarn is a master of his craft. His craft being painting, and creepiness.

Is it wrong that I read that as "panting and creepiness"?

Melayl
2010-09-08, 02:40 AM
These boards are much friendlier than the Wizards boards were (when I still went to them). A good portion of that is, I agree, due to the Rules and their enforcement. But a good portion of the accolade also belongs to the posters, who have always been willing to stay polite, offer good critique, and have fun.

I was quite pleased to find the sheer volume and quality of the brews here.

Morph Bark
2010-09-08, 07:08 AM
Is it wrong that I read that as "panting and creepiness"?

If you imagine Djinn's previous avatar comin at you while panting heavily, then yes. Yes, it is wrong.

(:smalltongue:)

Tael
2010-09-08, 04:58 PM
On the topic of excellent homebrew, Mr. Tribble! I demand that you finish your Seidoka of the Iron Bands Binder PrC! It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen!

Also, DragoonWraith and Fax make some really good stuff. Krimm and TDO have a fantastic compendium of amazing stuff, but regrettably they seem to have disappeared. I haven't seen much of Djinn's stuff, mostly because I have no idea where it is and you don't seem to have a compilation in your signature.

Realms of Chaos also makes a crapload of stuff, some of which, like his Gambit Fighter, is top notch. He always makes up really cool new mechanics, which leads to unbalance, but is very interesting.

arguskos
2010-09-08, 04:59 PM
On the topic of excellent homebrew, Mr. Tribble! I demand that you finish your Seidoka of the Iron Bands Binder PrC! It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen!

Also, DragoonWraith and Fax make some really good stuff. Krimm and TDO have a fantastic compendium of amazing stuff, but regrettably they seem to have disappeared. I haven't seen much of Djinn's stuff, mostly because I have no idea where it is and you don't seem to have a compilation in your signature.
Krimm and TDO do that. I've been around for a bit, and they seem to have phases where they just nick off and do other stuff for awhile. Hell, Fax does that too sometimes. I'd expect them back whenever they get inspired again. :smallwink:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-08, 07:32 PM
On the topic of excellent homebrew, Mr. Tribble! I demand that you finish your Seidoka of the Iron Bands Binder PrC! It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen!...

...I haven't seen much of Djinn's stuff, mostly because I have no idea where it is and you don't seem to have a compilation in your signature.

:smallconfused: Funny, this, given that the Seidkona of the Iron Bands was, in fact, one of my creations. Not that I don't absolutely adore VT's work, but please...credit where credit is due.

For most of my work, look at the winners of the PrC Contest, starting with Fallen, Not Forgotten. There's a few others floating around, like the Madspark Eccentric (which I love). A forum search will reveal most of them.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-08, 08:35 PM
On the topic of excellent homebrew, Mr. Tribble! I demand that you finish your Seidoka of the Iron Bands Binder PrC! It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen!
Thank you, thank you! :smalltongue:

Tael
2010-09-08, 09:07 PM
:smallconfused: Funny, this, given that the Seidkona of the Iron Bands was, in fact, one of my creations. Not that I don't absolutely adore VT's work, but please...credit where credit is due.

For most of my work, look at the winners of the PrC Contest, starting with Fallen, Not Forgotten. There's a few others floating around, like the Madspark Eccentric (which I love). A forum search will reveal most of them.

Uh, that is... I, er... :smalleek::smallredface:

*runs away*

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-08, 10:20 PM
On that note, the Iron Bands definitely is in my top favorite homebrew http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

DragoonWraith
2010-09-08, 11:18 PM
The Seikona of the Iron Bands is definitely one of my favorite classes ever - if it isn't my favorite, period, which off the top of my head I think it is.

watsyurname529
2010-09-09, 12:21 AM
I would say these forums are pretty homebrewy. After migrating over here with Bhu and the PrC thread it was more critiquing than I got at the WotC boards. It seems we also know each other more so it makes critiquing and homebrewing more worth while. Also the Vote up a [X] threads were awesome while they were around.

Plus then I found all of these guys who spend way too much time on this thing called Steam.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 09:43 AM
On that note, the Iron Bands definitely is in my top favorite homebrew http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


The Seikona of the Iron Bands is definitely one of my favorite classes ever - if it isn't my favorite, period, which off the top of my head I think it is.

You have no idea how amazing it is to hear this sort of thing. :smallbiggrin:


Plus then I found all of these guys who spend way too much time on this thing called Steam.

...guilty as charged.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-09, 09:59 AM
Krimm and TDO do that. I've been around for a bit, and they seem to have phases where they just nick off and do other stuff for awhile. Hell, Fax does that too sometimes. I'd expect them back whenever they get inspired again. :smallwink:

Yeah, it's generally writers-block related.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:00 AM
Yeah, it's generally writers-block related.

Indeed. That's why I've been absent...my mind just refuses to work properly.

Damn writer's block...:smallbiggrin:

Fax Celestis
2010-09-09, 10:01 AM
Indeed. That's why I've been absent...my mind just refuses to work properly.

Damn writer's block...:smallbiggrin:

I recommend turning off Team Fortress 2, queueing up the Einhander soundtrack, and pressing buttons you know are wrong until you find the right one.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:02 AM
I recommend turning off Team Fortress 2...

I have for a little over a month now. But I'll try the rest of it. :smallbiggrin:

Milskidasith
2010-09-09, 10:14 AM
Luckily, I am never short of homebrew to criticize. I think I'd go crazy (or play more Iji/LoL) if there wasn't somebody posting something.

Anyway, can I get a link to this amazing PrC people have been discussing? It seems like a good read.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:15 AM
Luckily, I am never short of homebrew to criticize. I think I'd go crazy (or play more Iji/LoL) if there wasn't somebody posting something.

Anyway, can I get a link to this amazing PrC people have been discussing? It seems like a good read.

By all means. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136589)

Milskidasith
2010-09-09, 10:22 AM
That is a really impressive PrC. The only question I really have is whether or not the bargain ability can be used if the subject is under duress/forced to agree to it.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:27 AM
That is a really impressive PrC. The only question I really have is whether or not the bargain ability can be used if the subject is under duress/forced to agree to it.


If the Seikona can get a victim to agree to a bargain, and then can seal the bargain in an appropriate manner (shaking hands, signing a contract, or whatever means of agreement are appropriate to the culture and situation), the victim falls under a terrible curse.

Those are the only requirements. So yes, a Seidkona is entirely able to use coercion to secure the binding. They're nasty that way.

However, if you, as a DM, wanted to remove magical coercion from the list, I'd say that's entirely fair, and possibly more in keeping with the spirit of the class.

Milskidasith
2010-09-09, 10:30 AM
Those are the only requirements. So yes, a Seidkona is entirely able to use coercion to secure the binding. They're nasty that way.

However, if you, as a DM, wanted to remove magical coercion from the list, I'd say that's entirely fair, and possibly more in keeping with the spirit of the class.

The point I was making was more that the wording is vague on "agree to a bargain." It's arguable you aren't really agreeing to something if you are forced to do it, so... yeah. Also, what about sarcasm? Fingers crossed? These are mostly irrelevant questions, but I think I'd have to dislike this class if it could penalize somebody for using sarcasm. :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:32 AM
The point I was making was more that the wording is vague on "agree to a bargain." It's arguable you aren't really agreeing to something if you are forced to do it, so... yeah. Also, what about sarcasm? Fingers crossed? These are mostly irrelevant questions, but I think I'd have to dislike this class if it could penalize somebody for using sarcasm. :smalltongue:

You don't mess around with the fey. If you're using sarcasm in a bargain which you're actually sealing (by contract, handshake, or the like), or you try to claim "fingers crossed" or some nonsense, true fey magic will just flip you the bird and claim your mind regardless. The magic cares about the contract, not the manner in which it was made: it's a fairly traditional fey thing, and one that I love.

Also, technically, if you're forced to make a bargain, you could always refuse. The alternative may be that the Seidkona kills you, but it's a choice that you made. Which is enough for the nastier type of fey.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-09, 10:37 AM
But you can't refuse if you're under the effects of a Compulsion, and probably not under a Charm either. Of course, Fey are also noted for both.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:38 AM
But you can't refuse if you're under the effects of a Compulsion, and probably not under a Charm either. Of course, Fey are also noted for both.

There's a reason the Seidkona is a nasty fellow. :smallbiggrin:

As I mentioned above, if you want to remove the "magical compulsion" from the "agreement" clause, that's fine. I chose not to, to make the Seidkona a bit more of a terror.

Milskidasith
2010-09-09, 10:47 AM
Another question (woah, thread derail): Does the task at least have to be possible? I mean "Extinguish the sun without using magic" could be agreed to under pain of death/magical compulsion, but that's... how do you even go about doing that?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-09, 10:49 AM
Another question (woah, thread derail): Does the task at least have to be possible? I mean "Extinguish the sun without using magic" could be agreed to under pain of death/magical compulsion, but that's... how do you even go about doing that?

...Hm. Good question. My gut instinct, knowing what I do about the fey, would be that no, it doesn't. People on impossible tasks are another tradition of the fey.

Ultimately, I'd make that a DM call, as I don't want to rule one way or the other.

Lix Lorn
2010-09-10, 04:07 AM
I love these forums. They're what got me into d&d. So I can safely say they're the homebrewiest I know. (Giggle)

If I were to name favourite classes, I'd single out DragoonWraith's Swordmage, Lord Garteth's Child of the Mausoleum, and Bhu's Super Happy Fun Berserker. (nods) They all deserve more press.

watsyurname529
2010-09-10, 11:03 AM
I love these forums. They're what got me into d&d. So I can safely say they're the homebrewiest I know. (Giggle)

If I were to name favourite classes, I'd single out DragoonWraith's Swordmage, Lord Garteth's Child of the Mausoleum, and Bhu's Super Happy Fun Berserker. (nods) They all deserve more press.

The sheer amount of PrC's Bhu has created in relatively little time in the Goblinoid/Orc thread should deserve more attention as well.

I counted and there are 85 in that thread alone with another one in construction. That's pretty homebrewy right there. In one thread.

Oslecamo
2010-09-10, 11:53 AM
I counted and there are 85 in that thread alone with another one in construction. That's pretty homebrewy right there. In one thread.

Well, my improved monster classes thread has over 150 converted monsters (around half done by me), indexed and everything on the 2nd post, and at least three more in the works. Oh and it's the second thread because the other one reached the 50 page limit.:smallcool: shameless self promotion

My goal is convert every wotc printed monster, and I've even worked in some of the homebrew ones of this forum on a request basis.:smallbiggrin:

I honestly doubt I would have been motivated to start and keep that project in any other gaming forum I know.:smallsmile:

Lix Lorn
2010-09-10, 02:03 PM
That's a good thread. (nodnod)

Juhn
2010-09-10, 03:48 PM
Also the Vote up a [X] threads were awesome while they were around.Those will be back in a couple of months, run by their originators.

When they start doing a number of those in a row the Homebrew forum tends to get flooded with them, so they turn off the taps for a while every so often.

For the moment I think they're devoting all their homebrewing time to finishing up VUACS though.


The sheer amount of PrC's Bhu has created in relatively little time in the Goblinoid/Orc thread should deserve more attention as well.

I counted and there are 85 in that thread alone with another one in construction. That's pretty homebrewy right there. In one thread.
Ah, that would explain why I haven't really seen much of Bhu's homebrew - I've never been in that thread.

The Tygre
2010-09-10, 04:18 PM
I'm just here to religiously worship whatever Krimm Blackleaf puts out. I wont even lie about it.

Eldan
2010-09-10, 05:10 PM
You don't mess around with the fey. If you're using sarcasm in a bargain which you're actually sealing (by contract, handshake, or the like), or you try to claim "fingers crossed" or some nonsense, true fey magic will just flip you the bird and claim your mind regardless. The magic cares about the contract, not the manner in which it was made: it's a fairly traditional fey thing, and one that I love.

Also, technically, if you're forced to make a bargain, you could always refuse. The alternative may be that the Seidkona kills you, but it's a choice that you made. Which is enough for the nastier type of fey.

Hehe. To quote a game I was in:

PC: "Oh, sure. Why don't you just take my children and my house as well?"
Fey: "Deal."

watsyurname529
2010-09-10, 07:46 PM
Those will be back in a couple of months, run by their originators.

When they start doing a number of those in a row the Homebrew forum tends to get flooded with them, so they turn off the taps for a while every so often.

For the moment I think they're devoting all their homebrewing time to finishing up VUACS though.


Ah, that would explain why I haven't really seen much of Bhu's homebrew - I've never been in that thread.

Ah. That's cool. I think I may or may not restart my VUA Magic Item then.

DracoDei
2010-09-10, 08:45 PM
Ah, that would explain why I haven't really seen much of Bhu's homebrew - I've never been in that thread.

Well, he also has his Critter thread and his Cat-Burglar thread...


In other news, I take it I am second tier? I can live with that, I just want to confirm sorta-like...

Gralamin
2010-09-10, 09:35 PM
Those will be back in a couple of months, run by their originators.

When they start doing a number of those in a row the Homebrew forum tends to get flooded with them, so they turn off the taps for a while every so often.

For the moment I think they're devoting all their homebrewing time to finishing up VUACS though.


Last time I looked at VUACS (I get suggested to people to help with balance a lot), it had a ways to go. But I don't know how often Afroakuma was updating the Doc.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-10, 09:42 PM
In other news, I take it I am second tier? I can live with that, I just want to confirm sorta-like...

Wait...what? We have tiers now? Something like this?

...I wonder where I am now (my guess would be towards the top, but I'm biased), and whether or not the higher tiers need nerfing... :smalltongue:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-10, 09:45 PM
*bares teeth at anyone who tries to nerf my tier*

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-10, 09:45 PM
*bares teeth at anyone who tries to nerf my tier*

Oh, please, VT. You're obviously OP. :smallbiggrin:

Gralamin
2010-09-10, 09:54 PM
Oh, please, VT. You're obviously OP. :smallbiggrin:

Agghhh. 2d10 Pun damage -> 20.

DracoDei
2010-09-10, 11:22 PM
*bares teeth at anyone who tries to nerf my tier*

As long as you continue to refrain from entering your own contests, I consider you to not be in any need of nerfing. Djinn OTOH... well, he did at least offer a prize for it...

watsyurname529
2010-09-10, 11:22 PM
Agghhh. 2d10 Pun damage -> 20.

Oh noes! You're now down to 7/27 HP!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-10, 11:46 PM
As long as you continue to refrain from entering your own contests, I consider you to not be in any need of nerfing. Djinn OTOH... well, he did at least offer a prize for it...

I should start doing the contests again...no one managed to claim it yet. :smallbiggrin:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-10, 11:49 PM
As long as you continue to refrain from entering your own contests, I consider you to not be in any need of nerfing.
*shifty look hidden beneath thick goggles... and lack of eyes*

arguskos
2010-09-11, 02:09 AM
Wait...what? We have tiers now? Something like this?

...I wonder where I am now (my guess would be towards the top, but I'm biased), and whether or not the higher tiers need nerfing... :smalltongue:
Yeah, we sorta do.

Top Tier: VT, Djinn, Krimm, Fax, TDO, afro, Zeta
Second-Tier: Temotei, Draco, DW, Milskidasith
Third-Tier: myself, everyone else I'm too tired to remember at 3 AM on 5 hours of sleep (sorry guys, I fail! :smallfrown:)

Samm
2010-09-11, 02:15 AM
I really like these forums. The community here is really friendly, vibrant, and generally really nice. It's got a very collaborative atmosphere too, which always helps. I think this vibrant and collaborative atmosphere is what makes this forum very hombrewy.

When I post a homebrew, people are usually responsive and I like that. And it's almost always is in a nice way, which is what keeps me coming back. Granted, I've never really been on many other forums, but I'm glad I'm here.

On the subject of the quality of homebrew, when I DM a game, I like the homebrew to be from this forum. Why? because I know there is a good critiquing process here; it gives the creator feedback on his work, so I as a DM can look at the feedback and have things pointed out to me that I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

And also, which Tier would I fit into? Would I even get a mention?

BladeofOblivion
2010-09-11, 03:48 AM
I really like these forums. The community here is really friendly, vibrant, and generally really nice. It's got a very collaborative atmosphere too, which always helps. I think this vibrant and collaborative atmosphere is what makes this forum very hombrewy.

When I post a homebrew, people are usually responsive and I like that. And it's almost always is in a nice way, which is what keeps me coming back. Granted, I've never really been on many other forums, but I'm glad I'm here.

On the subject of the quality of homebrew, when I DM a game, I like the homebrew to be from this forum. Why? because I know there is a good critiquing process here; it gives the creator feedback on his work, so I as a DM can look at the feedback and have things pointed out to me that I wouldn't have seen otherwise.


I agree. Everyone refuses to comment on my Runecaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281790&postcount=1) for some reason though. It is just a bad idea or do people just not notice it? A rather out-of-place anomaly here if you ask me. :smalltongue:

Vaynor
2010-09-11, 04:07 AM
Yeah, we sorta do.

:smallannoyed:

Really guys? Homebrewer tiers?



well a lot of forums have a very elitist attitude vein running through thats not so prevalent here. :smallbiggrin:

Well, at least not before this thread was started. :smallwink:

@v: :smalltongue:

Morph Bark
2010-09-11, 04:18 AM
I'm too tired to remember at 3 AM on 5 hours of sleep (sorry guys, I fail! :smallfrown:)

*pats* It's okay, everyone who is not a Warforged needs sleep occassionally. :smallwink:


:smallannoyed:

Really guys? Homebrewer tiers?

Oh. Oh my.

Quick! Someone cover up the tracks! jk

Ceiling009
2010-09-11, 05:13 AM
I haven't posted in a while here, but I was here so often when I was heavily playing 3.5... The Avatar homebrews, Crim's crazy ToB styles, man it was an exciting place.

I'm not saying it's not exciting anymore or anything, but not of lot 4e HB, but really, it's better here than it is at WotC's; man the Homebrew is dead there, with all the Chicken Littling from Essentials, and the really odd holier than thou attitudes of posters for trying to break the mold.

I should get back to posting here, and see what people think, that... aren't so... serious. In fact, when I get some sleep, and some clarity... I will do just that. This place is lovely after all.

DracoDei
2010-09-11, 07:55 AM
I just want to say: If you use the stuff, please tell the author how it went... the more detail the better, but even a simple "I had my party run into one of these, they were level <insert number here>, and it didn't go down in one round, but it didn't TPK them either." would mean so much to most monster brewers. I mean... even Vorpal Tribble and Bhu don't see much of that.

Samm
2010-09-11, 08:02 AM
I agree. Everyone refuses to comment on my Runecaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281790&postcount=1) for some reason though. It is just a bad idea or do people just not notice it? A rather out-of-place anomaly here if you ask me. :smalltongue:

Speaking of things that deserve commenting on, My Fighter Fix, it's in my Sig, so if you want, you can check it out.

But, yeah, I've given your Runecaster some attention.

This is what I like about these forums, people come up with interesting ideas! It's very good to be here. And I'd say in my limited experience, it's very homebrewy. The fact that everyone seems to be very accepting of everyone else, I think it makes this place very welcolming. This probably has something to do with the moderators and a good set of rules.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-11, 09:56 AM
:smallannoyed:

Really guys? Homebrewer tiers?

Perhaps. Yet somehow I feel this is almost entirely in jest. :smalltongue:

Also, I'll point out that, while we're not elitist about being good, we do have some very good homebrewers. They're just nice about it, and willing to help people who are new to the hobby. Being non-elitist doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the people who really know what they're doing. :smallbiggrin:

Fax Celestis
2010-09-11, 10:14 AM
Who else thinks that 4e Essentials does nothing but make us look better?

DragoonWraith
2010-09-11, 10:18 AM
I do, from Gral's report.

Lix Lorn
2010-09-11, 10:46 AM
What are 4e essentials?
...
I've played d&d since February, and I'm an active homebrewer.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-11, 11:26 AM
Going on the 6th day since I posted some stuff on various websites. Not a single response, and the most active one has had a total of 4 homebrew posts since.

So... yeah.

Btw, you find out anything, Bhu?

Oslecamo
2010-09-11, 11:33 AM
What are 4e essentials?


Long story short, when 4e came out Wotc lauded it as a paragon of balance and fun, and several people agreed.

In the last months however they've been announcing the essential lines, that basically picks several of the base design philosophies of 4e that they changed from 3.5 and throws them out of the window screaming and kicking.

But ohoh, they claim they aren't changing anything and that's it still good old 4e. Despite the fact that if you picked the 1st print 4e books they would be basically incopatible with the essential products.

They've redesigned 90% of 4e edition just two years after the launch, meaning unless you pay their monthal online subscrition to get the updates errata the new products will be incopatible with your old 4e material.

On the other hand, the homebrewers here keep providing steady improvements to 3.5, for free, and whitout completely changing their own material and ideas every couple years.


Djinn_In_Tonic:It means that actualy. Starting pating each others backs for no other reason that pating will lead to elitism even if the pating is deserved. I've seen it happen in other boards and it isn't pretty and is actualy one of the main reasons I left those .

Please let's not start that here. If you have time to be here cheering people that have already been cheered plenty then you have time to be helping other homebrewers or making new homebrew. Let people's actions and work speak for themselves.

(and as I read this I read posts on another forum that claim they're the bestest and all other forums are idea-dry, ah the irony...)

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-11, 11:38 AM
Djinn_In_Tonic:It means that actualy. Starting pating each others backs for no other reason that pating will lead to elitism even if the pating is deserved. I've seen it happen in other boards and it isn't pretty and is actualy one of the main reasons I left those .

Fair enough. Never seen it myself: I've been telling VT he's a god for a couple years now, and he sure hasn't let it go to his head except in a humorous, friendly fashion.

And, as I said...this "Tier" nonsense is all in jest. I'm pretty sure everyone realizes that. :smallbiggrin:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-11, 11:45 AM
Fair enough. Never seen it myself: I've been telling VT he's a god for a couple years now, and he sure hasn't let it go to his head except in a humorous, friendly fashion.
I've yet to receive a single blood sacrifice. Not even on my birthday.

Oslecamo
2010-09-11, 11:45 AM
Fair enough. Never seen it myself: I've been telling VT he's a god for a couple years now, and he sure hasn't let it go to his head except in a humorous, friendly fashion.

Good. I pray it stays that way.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-11, 11:51 AM
*Polite but removed previous post*

*Polite but removed reply, due to removal of previous post*

Probably best to let the topic die down. That said, I think we're all safely within the non-elitist zone here, although this is as far as I'd go. We're just offering our opinions on who we think are good homebrewers.

That said, back to our previous topic...whatever that was. :smalltongue:

akma
2010-09-11, 12:15 PM
I've yet to receive a single blood sacrifice. Not even on my birthday.

Any special requests on the type of sacrafice?



That said, back to our previous topic...whatever that was. :smalltongue:

Let`s see...
First this topic started by asking if this is the best forum, then people said it is. Then everyone started glorifying you, and then I skipped the posts and went to this page.
Also, I think it`s the wrong topic to constantly claim that the people in this forum are not elitists. Especially if it is "we`re the best and not elitists" kind of post.

Eldan
2010-09-11, 12:18 PM
Hi. Another Tier 4 brewer reporting in. :smalltongue:

I'd also like to join the church of Krimm and agree that the Seidkona (I'm not going to look up how to write an Edd on my keyboard) is one of the best classes ever.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-11, 12:18 PM
That said, back to our previous topic...whatever that was. :smalltongue:
I'm thinking we could make this into the 'Homebrew chat thread', where homebrewers get together in general or say hey to the rest. Perhaps also note the contests out there.

Monster Competition XLIX
I'm currently running the above and it is open for submissions. See signature for link.
Next month will also be the 50th anniversary of the monster competitions and hoping to make a big thing of it with prizes. As it's always a special Halloween-theme hope all you homebrewers come out.

Prestige Class Contest XXI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167654)
ErrantX runs a monthly Prestige Class contest that receives some very high-quality entries. Currently this month's is over, but the admins opened a poll for voting.


Am I missing any others?

BladeofOblivion
2010-09-11, 12:32 PM
Am I missing any others?

There are the Base Class contests by Lord Gareth and the Potpourri contests by DaTedinator.

arguskos
2010-09-11, 12:33 PM
Am I missing any others?
There were the old Vote Up a <blank> contests. Sadly, none are currently running though.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-11, 12:44 PM
Monster Competition XLIX
I'm currently running the above and it is open for submissions. See signature for link.
Next month will also be the 50th anniversary of the monster competitions and hoping to make a big thing of it with prizes. As it's always a special Halloween-theme hope all you homebrewers come out.


Remind me and I'll enter.

Eldan
2010-09-11, 12:46 PM
This forum really only misses one homebrew aspect, and it's the one I would probably need the most... adventures. Seriously. I can write a half-way functioning campaign world, my NPCs are probably good enough, but somehow, I'm totally unable to make a working adventure. It usually takes the PCs half an hour to get stuck before the entire thing breaks down when I write one.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-11, 01:40 PM
There are the Base Class contests by Lord Gareth and the Potpourri contests by DaTedinator.
Have a link?



Remind me and I'll enter.
You got it.

Oslecamo
2010-09-11, 02:21 PM
This forum really only misses one homebrew aspect, and it's the one I would probably need the most... adventures. Seriously. I can write a half-way functioning campaign world, my NPCs are probably good enough, but somehow, I'm totally unable to make a working adventure. It usually takes the PCs half an hour to get stuck before the entire thing breaks down when I write one.

Well the problem it's that more than anything else in D&D players will try to break the adventure. They'll do unexpected things, ask questions to wich you don't know the answer, and part of being a good DM means being able to deal with that.

So for homebrewed adventurers you would need to do one of the following.
-Assume the DM can improsive stuff in the fly to fill holes, wich means it has high chance of geting stuck anyway.
-State everything and anything on a 100 mile radius of the aventure so whatever the players choose to do it's covered, ending up with an encycplopedia that few people will have patience or time to read.
-Make just a few paths, and the players can't get away from them no matter what they do due to mighty enemies/ immovable obstacles, wich can easily end in railroading.

But meh, I may give it a shot anyway. Sounds like a good challenge!

Zaydos
2010-09-11, 02:24 PM
Wasn't there a vote up an adventure thread once? I think I saw one, but I never payed much attention to it (I prefer to make my own).

Vaynor
2010-09-11, 02:40 PM
Perhaps. Yet somehow I feel this is almost entirely in jest. :smalltongue:

Also, I'll point out that, while we're not elitist about being good, we do have some very good homebrewers. They're just nice about it, and willing to help people who are new to the hobby. Being non-elitist doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the people who really know what they're doing. :smallbiggrin:


Probably best to let the topic die down. That said, I think we're all safely within the non-elitist zone here, although this is as far as I'd go. We're just offering our opinions on who we think are good homebrewers.

I'm aware that it's in jest. However, there's a very big difference between saying a poster is really good at homebrewing to saying that the poster is better than another poster at homebrewing. Like you said, probably best to let the topic die down. :smallsmile:

Knaight
2010-09-11, 02:53 PM
Still, as long as there isn't an attitude of "that person is a better homebrewer than you, no criticism from you", its not worth worrying about. I would be a tier 6 or so homebrewer*, but when I point out flaws in Fax's work I don't get verbally attacked by everyone for criticizing him. Besides, the tiers seemed to have more to do with quantity of work than quality.

*At least in regards to D&D, here.

Eldan
2010-09-11, 02:58 PM
Well the problem it's that more than anything else in D&D players will try to break the adventure. They'll do unexpected things, ask questions to wich you don't know the answer, and part of being a good DM means being able to deal with that.


But meh, I may give it a shot anyway. Sounds like a good challenge!

My problem is that even if I have a city statted out (I often do), have encounters and dozens of NPCs planned and improvise everything else, the PCs never seem to be able to get to the end of my own adventures, but do it quite fine if I take a pre-made one and rewrite it extensively by adding two dozen new NPCs and a lot of new locations.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-11, 03:30 PM
but when I point out flaws in Fax's work I don't get verbally attacked by everyone for criticizing him.

Flaws? My work is flawless what are you talking about

No, in all seriousness, I frequently miss stuff that I shouldn't, by mere virtue of focusing too much on the complex bits that I forget the little stuff. Case in point: I forgot the proficiencies line for the warlord 3.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165950) when I posted it.

Glimbur
2010-09-11, 03:36 PM
Have a link?

Sure. The base class challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153960) is in voting at the moment, but there's the current contest. In case Gareth is reading this, I feel that next time a shorter time frame would be helpful... it's easy to procrastinate and we can keep up a faster pace than this contest required.

The potpourri contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162387) is also in voting. It has less of a history than the other contests, but I think we have seen some really cool stuff come from it.

Vaynor
2010-09-11, 03:48 PM
Sure. The base class challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153960) is in voting at the moment, but there's the current contest. In case Gareth is reading this, I feel that next time a shorter time frame would be helpful... it's easy to procrastinate and we can keep up a faster pace than this contest required.

I think my attempted class shows this perfectly. I had so much time I didn't worry about it, then never actually finished it. :smalltongue:

Knaight
2010-09-11, 04:22 PM
Flaws? My work is flawless what are you talking about

The missed question mark at the end was a nice touch. And of course your work is flawless, I'm part of the editing process.

Gralamin
2010-09-12, 12:37 AM
I'm not saying it's not exciting anymore or anything, but not of lot 4e HB, but really, it's better here than it is at WotC's; man the Homebrew is dead there, with all the Chicken Littling from Essentials, and the really odd holier than thou attitudes of posters for trying to break the mold.


I've got something in the works for 4e. There is no point in making classes in the power system anymore, in my opinion, since it is covered so well by the existing classes. This means that homebrewers should push what the system is capable of, and that is the entire point of the class I'm currently working on.

Ceiling009
2010-09-12, 01:41 AM
Well, the way the powers system works, is that while a lot of archetypes are covered in the base classes through phb1-3, is that the front loading is what changes. And role mechanics, and how wacky you get with that.
- Like a ranged defender?
- Melee Controller?
- or weird leaders?

Classes it seems are notoriously difficult in 4e, most due to the 70+ powers you gotta make to even contemplate making a single class. Anyway, I feel that at least the 4e folks here at least try. At other boards, it's more or less a lost cause.

Realms of Chaos
2010-09-12, 10:12 AM
He always makes up really cool new mechanics, which leads to unbalance, but is very interesting.

WEEEEEE, I'M UNBALANCED!!!! :smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2010-09-12, 10:16 AM
As long as no-one starts saying I have a reputation...

DragoonWraith
2010-09-12, 10:18 AM
And now I have Chrissie Hines stuck in my head.

Symmys
2010-09-12, 11:56 AM
I wish I had a group so I could use some of the awesome homebrew on these boards...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-12, 11:58 AM
I wish I had a group so I could use some of the awesome homebrew on these boards...

There's the online RPG part of these forums, which, in my experience, often allows homebrew work. :smallbiggrin:

Zaydos
2010-09-12, 12:09 PM
I know I'm more likely to allow homebrew from these forums than say D&D wiki. There are multiple reasons such as:
1) it is written legibly and normally has all its abilities actually rendered in a way which is readable.
2) the PEACHing process tends to make it much better balanced.
3) There's a decent chance I've read it already and don't have to spend 30 minutes trying to figure out how it can be broken because I've already done that.
4) A lot of it is so cool I want to see it used.

Also now I'm wondering if I have a reputation...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-12, 12:13 PM
I know I'm more likely to allow homebrew from these forums than say D&D wiki. There are multiple reasons such as:
1) it is written legibly and normally has all its abilities actually rendered in a way which is readable.
2) the PEACHing process tends to make it much better balanced.
3) There's a decent chance I've read it already and don't have to spend 30 minutes trying to figure out how it can be broken because I've already done that.
4) A lot of it is so cool I want to see it used.

5) The D&D Wiki is a synonym for "poorly balanced with little quality control." :smalltongue:

*one man's opinion*

Temotei
2010-09-12, 12:14 PM
5) The D&D Wiki is a synonym for "poorly balanced with little quality control." :smalltongue:

*one man's opinion*

That sort of fits in with number two, but...yeah. Poor D&D Wiki. :smallsigh:

DragoonWraith
2010-09-12, 12:19 PM
There is that other Wiki, the dungeons.wikia one, which is significantly superior to the old one. I haven't really perused the site, so I can't really speak for the balance/quality of everything on it, but at the least I know the admins were pretty aggressive about quality control ("You need to rewrite this; it's almost unreadable. If you don't at least acknowledge the problem and state intention to rewrite it, we'll have to delete this article in a week" or something along those lines). I know I did get some pretty solid PEACHing on the stuff I posted there.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-12, 01:34 PM
There is that other Wiki, the dungeons.wikia one, which is significantly superior to the old one. I haven't really perused the site, so I can't really speak for the balance/quality of everything on it, but at the least I know the admins were pretty aggressive about quality control ("You need to rewrite this; it's almost unreadable. If you don't at least acknowledge the problem and state intention to rewrite it, we'll have to delete this article in a week" or something along those lines). I know I did get some pretty solid PEACHing on the stuff I posted there.

There is the other other wiki (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/) too.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-12, 01:44 PM
Heh, I've never gotten any PEACHes there.

Samm
2010-09-12, 05:42 PM
There is the other other wiki (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/) too.

That is neat. I wonder when I'll have made enough homebrew to deserve a place on that....

DragoonWraith
2010-09-12, 05:58 PM
It's not merit-based, you just have to ask...

Samm
2010-09-12, 06:19 PM
It's not merit-based, you just have to ask...

Maybe when it gets too large to fit in my signature.

watsyurname529
2010-09-12, 10:53 PM
5) The D&D Wiki is a synonym for "poorly balanced with little quality control." :smalltongue:

*one man's opinion*

Hey, I have stuff on there that I tried very hard to make balanced. Some of which comes from these forums because I posted them in both places.

Otherwise, yes, there can be quite a bit of... let's just say low quality items...

Reverent-One
2010-09-13, 01:18 AM
They've redesigned 90% of 4e edition just two years after the launch, meaning unless you pay their monthal online subscrition to get the updates errata the new products will be incopatible with your old 4e material.

I'm only touching this one because it's a blatant falsehood I see way too much. For the record, the updates/errata/whatever you want to call them are completely free. This link takes you to the complete updates for every book. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/updatesarchive) You only need to spend money to get things like the character builder and the online rules compendium.

Jogi
2010-09-13, 01:41 AM
This forum really only misses one homebrew aspect, and it's the one I would probably need the most... adventures. Seriously. I can write a half-way functioning campaign world, my NPCs are probably good enough, but somehow, I'm totally unable to make a working adventure. It usually takes the PCs half an hour to get stuck before the entire thing breaks down when I write one.

I agree. No adventures here. Im with this fellow: I wish I could write good adventures. I'd post them ^^!

Gralamin
2010-09-13, 01:53 AM
I could probably write up some adventures, but they would be... odd to other DMs. Probably. I do some weird things in the "Back end" that the players don't necessarily know about, to represent some cool things in the "Front end" the players see. I also am very very bad with flavor text :smalltongue:.

That said, I've been told that I should write modules, so perhaps I should try one at some point.

DracoDei
2010-09-13, 06:06 AM
I could probably write up some adventures, but they would be... odd to other DMs. Probably. I do some weird things in the "Back end" that the players don't necessarily know about, to represent some cool things in the "Front end" the players see. I also am very very bad with flavor text :smalltongue:.

That said, I've been told that I should write modules, so perhaps I should try one at some point.

Well, you can't do worse than what we have so far (nothing), so I see no reason not to try, and several to GO FOR IT!

Tael
2010-09-13, 01:28 PM
This forum really only misses one homebrew aspect, and it's the one I would probably need the most... adventures. Seriously. I can write a half-way functioning campaign world, my NPCs are probably good enough, but somehow, I'm totally unable to make a working adventure. It usually takes the PCs half an hour to get stuck before the entire thing breaks down when I write one.

+ yes. I could write an adventure if I really wanted too, but it wouldn't be that good anyway. I would love to see some on the forums. And by the general quality of stuff here, they would be better than most wizards modules.

Eldan
2010-09-13, 04:45 PM
...they would be better than most wizards modules.

That's not exactly hard from what I've seen. Are there any people would call good?

arguskos
2010-09-13, 04:54 PM
That's not exactly hard from what I've seen. Are there any people would call good?
Red Hand of Doom is a module. So is Bastion of Broken Souls. Both are considered quite excellent in their own right.

Oslecamo
2010-09-13, 04:54 PM
I'm only touching this one because it's a blatant falsehood I see way too much. For the record, the updates/errata/whatever you want to call them are completely free. This link takes you to the complete updates for every book. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/updatesarchive) You only need to spend money to get things like the character builder and the online rules compendium.

Time is money my friend. The way they release the "free" errata is so inpratical that I would feel sorely tempted to pay their subscription if I wasn't such a cheapstake.

If they had an open free srd like in 3.5 I would agree with you, but it's pretty easy to miss changes with their "free" option for 4e when you've got dozens of pages of small and disembowed but important modificated details to check off.

Glimbur
2010-09-13, 04:58 PM
Well, you can't do worse than what we have so far (nothing), so I see no reason not to try, and several to GO FOR IT!

The only concern I have is that, to my biased impression anyway, a module is more work than a PrC, or a monster, or a bunch of spells, or whatever. I think that the semi-standard model on here of having a contest with a bunch of entries and people voting on them would not work because a) it is a lot of work to make an interesting module and b) such a module would be very tl;dr.

The only other model I have seen for homebrew is the ad-hoc model where someone posts their work and we all look at it. This avoids problem a) and reduces the impact of problem b): reading one module is much less work than reading and comparing several modules.

A third idea is collaborative module building, but that might turn out to be more work than just doing it yourself, depending on the team.

tl;dr Go for it, solo is probably easiest.

DracoDei
2010-09-13, 05:59 PM
The only concern I have is that, to my biased impression anyway, a module is more work than a PrC, or a monster, or a bunch of spells, or whatever. I think that the semi-standard model on here of having a contest with a bunch of entries and people voting on them would not work because a) it is a lot of work to make an interesting module and b) such a module would be very tl;dr.

The only other model I have seen for homebrew is the ad-hoc model where someone posts their work and we all look at it. This avoids problem a) and reduces the impact of problem b): reading one module is much less work than reading and comparing several modules.

A third idea is collaborative module building, but that might turn out to be more work than just doing it yourself, depending on the team.

tl;dr Go for it, solo is probably easiest.
Actually, a lot more homebrew gets posted ad-hoc than ever appears in the contests... so I consider that the "default". And yes, I agree that is the best way to go for the moment...

Incidently, I have two adventures, one of them possibly quite lengthy that are pretty simple in concept, yet really challenge the PCs... the only problem is that one of them requires a very specific combination of racial and diety factors to work... a variant elf nation would work. Also, it requires that Non-Lawful, but Good adventurers be willing to kill badguys in their sleep and then stand by while their clients lie to the public about what happened (for the greater good). Apparently some people think that is inconsistent (actually had a gaming group fall apart over that question... would have been nice if they had TOLD me there was a problem).

The more lengthy one is a real change from the normal D&D adventure model, and comes down to a series of random encounters... sorta. This is to say that you can throw together just about any random mix of Party Level appropriate creatures of certain alignments together, and it will make perfect sense. The maps for it are very simple... it "plays fair", but at the same time, is tremendously difficult, simply because it is such a departure from the normal adventuring model...

The thing about each of them is that any GM who can make a badguy NPC (not even an intricate BBEG, just a mook built around a specific class) can adapt either adventure to a wide variety of party levels very easily.

So... I have rambled a bit... I have been considering posting the first, and running PART of the adventure for the second as a PbP just to further explore why it is so challenging.

Reverent-One
2010-09-13, 07:26 PM
Time is money my friend. The way they release the "free" errata is so inpratical that I would feel sorely tempted to pay their subscription if I wasn't such a cheapstake.

If they had an open free srd like in 3.5 I would agree with you, but it's pretty easy to miss changes with their "free" option for 4e when you've got dozens of pages of small and disembowed but important modificated details to check off.

It may be more trouble than it's worth to you, but to say someone has to pay to keep up with the updates (which is what you said) is certainly not the case.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-09-14, 06:37 PM
Speaking of homebrewing adventures, I'm running my party through an "old school" dungeon crawl in a hidden jungle temple this semester, and I have all the maps and NPCs and such written out. When I'm done with it, would people be interested in my posting it as a module?

DragoonWraith
2010-09-14, 06:46 PM
Speaking of homebrewing adventures, I'm running my party through an "old school" dungeon crawl in a hidden jungle temple this semester, and I have all the maps and NPCs and such written out. When I'm done with it, would people be interested in my posting it as a module?
Yes!

I've been giving thought to trying my hand at DMing, and something I know is quality would be a great place to start.

Eleven
2010-09-15, 08:17 PM
Speaking of homebrewing adventures, I'm running my party through an "old school" dungeon crawl in a hidden jungle temple this semester, and I have all the maps and NPCs and such written out. When I'm done with it, would people be interested in my posting it as a module?

Absolutely. From what I've seen, your work is of excellent quality and I would love to see an adventure from your hand.

Plus, it would make my life much easier.

Knaight
2010-09-15, 08:35 PM
I would agree, and I never use pre made adventures. Still, it would be awesome just to have a look at. Plus, making WotC look like a bunch of chumps by comparison is always fun.

Milskidasith
2010-09-15, 08:50 PM
I would agree, and I never use pre made adventures. Still, it would be awesome just to have a look at. Plus, making WotC look like a bunch of chumps by comparison is always fun.

WotC did make ToB and Psionics. Those are pretty hard to top.

BladeofOblivion
2010-09-15, 09:07 PM
WotC did make ToB and Psionics. Those are pretty hard to top.

True. To be fair though, those are pretty much their crowning achievements in Homebrew Official Material.

Knaight
2010-09-15, 09:07 PM
WotC did make ToB and Psionics. Those are pretty hard to top.

We've got people here who do so, besides an adventure only has to top their adventures. Which means Red Hand of Doom.

Melayl
2010-09-16, 04:47 AM
Speaking of homebrewing adventures, I'm running my party through an "old school" dungeon crawl in a hidden jungle temple this semester, and I have all the maps and NPCs and such written out. When I'm done with it, would people be interested in my posting it as a module?

Definitely. I don't have a group to game with right now, but I do love looking over quality work.

I'd love to see any modules anyone wanted to post.

T.G. Oskar
2010-09-16, 09:29 AM
WotC did make ToB and Psionics and Incarnum. Those are pretty hard to top.

Fix'd?

Don't forget about Incarnum, Milski. It has the flavor of a unique, rarely-if-ever attempted system which transforms something common (magic items) into something special (soulmelds). That it had little popularity and that it has a learning (and loving) curve is what kinda killed it, unlike psionics which had loads of support and ToB that was the kind of system people weren't really expecting.

Eldan
2010-09-16, 10:18 AM
Of course, it also came out close to the end of 3.5, so like the Tome of Magic, it didn't get any support outside of the first book. Well, there was some binder stuff, but not much.

T.G. Oskar
2010-09-16, 12:31 PM
Of course, it also came out close to the end of 3.5, so like the Tome of Magic, it didn't get any support outside of the first book. Well, there was some binder stuff, but not much.

Actually, it had some support. I recall Dragon Magic creating some draconic-flavored soulmelds and I recall one or two more books with soulmelds in it. However, the fact that MoI also provided for typical magic items to grant some bonuses if bound to chakra was pretty much more support than what the Binders got (and they got a lot: psionic vestiges, city-bound vestiges and draconic vestiges IIRC).

The only book that got zero support from later books was ToB, but that was because it was one of the last books (ToB, Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils and Dragon Magic were the last books IIRC)

Milskidasith
2010-09-16, 01:56 PM
Yeah, I forgot about Incarnum. It is, like ToB and psionics, a very impressive system. Despite the good homebrew here (and despite my criticisms, there is a ton), not much here has really been as appealing to me as those three systems. Of course, the only things that I've seen that actually were "new systems" was d20r (which is only in alpha, and still has a lot of problems to be fixed), and the Penny Dreadful's stuff, which is generally really impressive but overall unfinished (unless I missed an update?)

Fax Celestis
2010-09-16, 02:25 PM
Of course, the only things that I've seen that actually were "new systems" was d20r (which is only in alpha, and still has a lot of problems to be fixed)

That is, of course, why it's in alpha. :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-16, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I forgot about Incarnum. It is, like ToB and psionics, a very impressive system. Despite the good homebrew here (and despite my criticisms, there is a ton), not much here has really been as appealing to me as those three systems. Of course, the only things that I've seen that actually were "new systems" was d20r (which is only in alpha, and still has a lot of problems to be fixed), and the Penny Dreadful's stuff, which is generally really impressive but overall unfinished (unless I missed an update?)

I've had a number of new systems brought up here, but I'm so terrible at actually finishing projects I don't think they can actually count. :smallbiggrin:

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 02:41 PM
I think the biggest reason I haven't posted here very much is because it felt like to me that if I didn't put everything in the nice table formats you guys use here and if I didn't write up lots of fluff and "playing a XXXX" information that no one seemed to care about what I posted. And I just don't really have the time to write that stuff. :smallfrown:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-09-16, 02:48 PM
I think the biggest reason I haven't posted here very much is because it felt like to me that if I didn't put everything in the nice table formats you guys use here and if I didn't write up lots of fluff and "playing a XXXX" information that no one seemed to care about what I posted. And I just don't really have the time to write that stuff. :smallfrown:

We like a bit of fluff, but I pretty much never include a "playing an XXX" section, and I haven't had a problem.

Tables and proper formatting, however, often make the difference between easy to read and just plain annoying to read. That will make a difference.

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 02:53 PM
Well, like for instance, anywhere else I've ever posted homebrew, I just pop a table out in Notepad (in fact I already have templates designed to use), copy/paste into the forum, and then close it in some kind of tag (at Wizards it was [html], at BG it's [tt], some places it's [code]). Its quite clear to read, it separates things well enough for myself and members of those forums, but here you guys use your own special tables which look really nice, but take MUCH longer to fill out and work with.

watsyurname529
2010-09-16, 03:36 PM
I think the biggest reason I haven't posted here very much is because it felt like to me that if I didn't put everything in the nice table formats you guys use here and if I didn't write up lots of fluff and "playing a XXXX" information that no one seemed to care about what I posted. And I just don't really have the time to write that stuff. :smallfrown:

Bhu has a template for PrC's hanging around somewhere that you can just copy/paste and it's already formatted perfectly.

Adding fluff is optional, but it can help critiques because people can see what you were trying to do and where you're coming from on the, in this instance, PrC.

Also, the tables from the WotC boards work just fine on these forums.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-16, 03:36 PM
Bhu has a template for PrC's hanging around somewhere that you can just copy/paste and it's already formatted perfectly.

Adding fluff is optional, but it can help critiques because people can see what you were trying to do and where you're coming from on the, in this instance, PrC.

You can also see the Guide to Homebrewing thread.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-16, 08:11 PM
Well, like for instance, anywhere else I've ever posted homebrew, I just pop a table out in Notepad (in fact I already have templates designed to use), copy/paste into the forum, and then close it in some kind of tag (at Wizards it was [html], at BG it's [tt], some places it's [code]). Its quite clear to read, it separates things well enough for myself and members of those forums, but here you guys use your own special tables which look really nice, but take MUCH longer to fill out and work with.
You can do code boxes here, but they look awful. I can't stand trying to read homebrew that uses them.

I disagree that the table codes are more difficult/time-consuming to use. What difference does it make if in Notepad you type a bunch of tabs and/or spaces, and typing a | in between some of those tabs/spaces? That's literally all it takes.

And yes, they're absolutely necessary, at least for me personally to read your work. I take critique seriously, and I won't put in that kind of effort for someone who can't even be bothered to make a decent table.

Eldan
2010-09-16, 08:19 PM
Well, I dislike the tables on this forum because I don't have a key for that sign, so I have to either copy paste it from somewhere or get some CTRL+number code.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-16, 08:31 PM
Well, I dislike the tables on this forum because I don't have a key for that sign, so I have to either copy paste it from somewhere or get some CTRL+number code.

PifRO has a class table generator (http://pifro.com/dnd/NEW/).

DragoonWraith
2010-09-16, 08:34 PM
Really? Didn't realize that other languages missed keys like that... frankly, I feel like that is a deficiency in your keyboard's design. The keys on a standard (English, I know, but nonetheless it is the standard) should not be dropped, aside from the letters obviously (and probably the $ since that's easily swapped for the appropriate symbol). But that's neither here nor there... there I can sympathize, but as visual as I am, without the table I can't get heads or tails of a class. I'd recommend, perhaps, writing the table in Notepad (or better Notepad++) or whatever your favored text editor is, and use some other character instead of |. Then just do a Search & Replace for that character to put in the |s.

Eldan
2010-09-16, 09:05 PM
Swiss keyboards are a special case, really. We already need all the special signs for german letters ( have their own keys), french letters ( also have their own keys) and a few others since all keyboards have to be useable with all four official languages. Just about every button on this keyboard has four things on it already. One or two have five. I guess that's just one they dropped.

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 10:27 PM
You can do code boxes here, but they look awful. I can't stand trying to read homebrew that uses them.

Right. I don't know why people think they look awful. Everywhere else uses them. I understand that compared to the nice ones you guys use they look like crap. I'm just saying, everywhere else I've been uses regular old code boxes and so it's easier for me to get feedback other places.


I disagree that the table codes are more difficult/time-consuming to use. What difference does it make if in Notepad you type a bunch of tabs and/or spaces, and typing a | in between some of those tabs/spaces? That's literally all it takes.

Not exactly. I have to add several headers and other things to an otherwise perfectly clear and readable table. It's a difference of literally 10 seconds vs at least 10 minutes.


And yes, they're absolutely necessary, at least for me personally to read your work. I take critique seriously, and I won't put in that kind of effort for someone who can't even be bothered to make a decent table.

See, that's what I mean. I've learned that I can't just post up the mechanics of a class for the people of these forums to look at and comment/critique. But I CAN do that elsewhere, which is why I don't post my homebrew here much. I'm not saying I'm upset at you guys or anything, I'm simply stating a fact.

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 10:35 PM
PifRO has a class table generator (http://pifro.com/dnd/NEW/).

Now THIS is incredibly useful. If I can figure out how to make custom mechanics with the Extra Columns Formulas I'll be completely good to go!

Such as, how would one use the Extra Columns Formulas to input a Warlock's Invocation levels from Least to Dark? Or to input a Warblades Maneuvers Known, Readied, and Stances?

DragoonWraith
2010-09-16, 10:37 PM
Right. I don't know why people think they look awful. Everywhere else uses them. I understand that compared to the nice ones you guys use they look like crap. I'm just saying, everywhere else I've been uses regular old code boxes and so it's easier for me to get feedback other places.
They're small and have weird horizontal scroll bars. I'm not dealing with horizontal scroll bars.


Not exactly. I have to add several headers and other things to an otherwise perfectly clear and readable table. It's a difference of literally 10 seconds vs at least 10 minutes.
You should have headers anyway. Seriously:

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Rawr
2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Blah![/table]

versus


Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Rawr
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Blah

What difference is there? Hell, I had a much harder time with the second because I had to keep track of how many spaces I was putting between things.

Of course, aesthetically there's no comparison:
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Rawr
2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Blah![/table]


Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Rawr
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Blah

(a lot of the problems that come from code boxes are more apparent with larger tables)


See, that's what I mean. I've learned that I can't just post up the mechanics of a class for the people of these forums to look at and comment/critique. But I CAN do that elsewhere, which is why I don't post my homebrew here much. I'm not saying I'm upset at you guys or anything, I'm simply stating a fact.
The code boxes at other forums look a lot better. Lack of other options is also a contributing factor: if you're not willing to put in the effort, why should we?

Owrtho
2010-09-16, 10:53 PM
Not sure if this is a standard Swiss keyboard, but according to the below picture (as well as a handful of other pictures of Swiss keyboards), the '|' is an alternate on the 7 key (specifically the Unshifted Alt Gr).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/KB_Swiss.svg
Owrtho

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 10:56 PM
They're small and have weird horizontal scroll bars. I'm not dealing with horizontal scroll bars.

I'll give you that one. Horizontal scroll bars do totally suck.


You should have headers anyway. Seriously:

No, I have all the normal ones in my notepad templates, but for unique stuff like my reborn Ranger, which utilizes Geomancy, something I made up, I need to add Mana, Spells Known, and Spell Level headers and columns. I pretty much don't bother with making classes that don't use unique mechanics and require extra headers and columns for, and that stuff is just at least 100% faster and easier with straight notepad to code conversion.


{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Rawr
2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Blah![/table]

versus


Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Rawr
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Blah

It might not be an issue if I went through and created new templates for this site specifically. Of course, those look messy in Notepad, which hinders my offline class creation (which is probably 98% of my work).


The code boxes at other forums look a lot better. Lack of other options is also a contributing factor: if you're not willing to put in the effort, why should we?

I'm not saying you should. I'm simply pointing out that you don't and that other forums do, and that's why I post elsewhere.

Fax Celestis
2010-09-16, 11:06 PM
Now THIS is incredibly useful. If I can figure out how to make custom mechanics with the Extra Columns Formulas I'll be completely good to go!

Such as, how would one use the Extra Columns Formulas to input a Warlock's Invocation levels from Least to Dark? Or to input a Warblades Maneuvers Known, Readied, and Stances?

Click the instructions link in the center of the page.

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 11:20 PM
Click the instructions link in the center of the page.

I did. It doesn't really explain things very well. I'm not a math major. I can't figure out how to start with a number and then add to that number at specific intervals by a specific amount.

But, really, it doesn't matter all that much. I can input those things manually and it would probably be faster anyway.

Milskidasith
2010-09-16, 11:39 PM
I seriously doubt numbers increasing at a set interval requires a math degree to understand. I'm sure calc is harder, and they teach that in high school. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, it's probably a good idea for you to learn the automatic class maker so that you can get everything formatted quickly, rather than manually input a class. While it may be faster to do one class rather than teach yourself how to use the class maker, once you learn it things will go faster, so it's only a matter of time until you'll have gotten more benefit out of learning how to use the class maker.

Ziegander
2010-09-16, 11:50 PM
I seriously doubt numbers increasing at a set interval requires a math degree to understand. I'm sure calc is harder, and they teach that in high school. :smalltongue:

Well, in any mathematics class the simplest thing I can think of for such a formula would be the function of a line, more specifically the slope of the line, but that doesn't exactly translate to D&D or the part of the generator I'm talking about. And, like I said, it doesn't exactly explain things like, how to create certain values and/or commands, very well.

Lix Lorn
2010-09-17, 02:57 AM
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Rawr
2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Blah![/table]

I want a class with Rawr! as a class feature.

Rockphed
2010-09-17, 03:56 AM
I want a class with Rawr! as a class feature.

It's not "Rawr!", it is "Rawr" and "Blah!". Obviously this class is some kind of taoist druid prestige class that enforces neutrality on the world about him.:smallamused:

If it weren't 3 in the morning, I would try to write such.

As to the original question of the thread, this is the home of the PPDC(that is the Paragon Pseudonatural Advanced Monstrous Crab for new people), if anybody else gets uppity, we sic it on em.:smallwink:

Morph Bark
2010-09-17, 04:36 AM
Swiss keyboards are a special case, really. We already need all the special signs for german letters ( have their own keys), french letters ( also have their own keys) and a few others since all keyboards have to be useable with all four official languages. Just about every button on this keyboard has four things on it already. One or two have five. I guess that's just one they dropped.

Really? They don't just use ' and : keys in combination with a, e, o, u to make those?

Wait... four official languages? French, German, Italian... and?

Eldan
2010-09-17, 07:02 AM
Really? They don't just use ' and : keys in combination with a, e, o, u to make those?

Wait... four official languages? French, German, Italian... and?

Il Rumantsch dal Grischun. Fa plaschair.

Which is about how much I speak of it. But then, it's pretty clearly a dying language anyway.



Not sure if this is a standard Swiss keyboard, but according to the below picture (as well as a handful of other pictures of Swiss keyboards), the '|' is an alternate on the 7 key (specifically the Unshifted Alt Gr).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/KB_Swiss.svg
Owrtho

Hey... you are right... there is some other thing pictured on my keyboard there (no idea how to do that, then), but it actually does "|". Good to know.

Edit: found it. It's "" that's pictured there. Seems they switched it up somehow. Now the key where "" is supposed to be just has nothing on it and doesn't react when Alt-GRed. Fabrication error, I guess.

DragoonWraith
2010-09-17, 08:45 AM
Edit: found it. It's "" that's pictured there. Seems they switched it up somehow. Now the key where "" is supposed to be just has nothing on it and doesn't react when Alt-GRed. Fabrication error, I guess.
No, it's not. It's really common, even on standard English keyboards, to have a broken bar symbol on the key that types a vertical bar. See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar) on the subject.

Eldan
2010-09-17, 08:48 AM
Yes, but I also have a key with the bar sign on it, which does nothing. That's what's strange about it.

Oslecamo
2010-09-17, 08:55 AM
Swiss keyboards are a special case, really. We already need all the special signs for german letters ( have their own keys), french letters ( also have their own keys) and a few others since all keyboards have to be useable with all four official languages. Just about every button on this keyboard has four things on it already. One or two have five. I guess that's just one they dropped.

Well that's a pretty innefecient waste of space on my opinion. Where I live keyboards have just a couple buttons with the acents.

^~` (do not confuse with ').

Then those buttons are simply combined with any of the vogals!



Really, why do you need a key for each vogal+acent combination?

Eldan
2010-09-17, 09:09 AM
Politics, I'd guess. We have, as I said, four languages and if you ever write a form or design a product without one of them, you'll be publicly lynched in the papers.

We have about ten to twenty thousand exclusive rumantsch speakers and they still manage to be very, very vocal about it.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-18, 06:36 PM
Meant to give you a head's up earlier, but those of you who know of the awesome Realmshelp site, better not be using it anymore.

Mods are cracking down on links to it.

Goodbye awesome feat-site :smallfrown:

Lix Lorn
2010-09-18, 06:57 PM
Meant to give you a head's up earlier, but those of you who know of the awesome Realmshelp site, better not be using it anymore.

Mods are cracking down on links to it.

Goodbye awesome feat-site :smallfrown:
Awww. Do we know why?

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-09-18, 07:05 PM
Awww. Do we know why?
It's copywritten material, so can't link to it.

Lix Lorn
2010-09-18, 07:10 PM
Oohhh.... right.

Ziegander
2010-09-18, 09:42 PM
Lix, is your avatar farting a heart-cloud? Or is she riding it?

Samm
2010-09-18, 09:45 PM
Her avatar is Princess Peach. One of her moves in Brawl was to lurch sideways, and when she hit somebody a heart would appear. Lix Lorn's avatar is in the process of doing that.

Ziegander
2010-09-18, 09:59 PM
Aaaahh, okay, lol. I love that move!

Lix Lorn
2010-09-19, 06:26 AM
Correct. XD
It's the move that makes her playable. IMO. XD
VOTE FOR MEEEEE

Morph Bark
2010-09-19, 06:30 AM
Her avatar is Princess Peach. One of her moves in Brawl was to lurch sideways, and when she hit somebody a heart would appear. Lix Lorn's avatar is in the process of doing that.

Well that's a rather reverse way of "hitting that".

Lord_Gareth
2010-09-20, 02:43 AM
So, who wants to make a Brawl D20? Volunteers, anyone?

Ziegander
2010-09-20, 02:48 AM
So, who wants to make a Brawl D20? Volunteers, anyone?

Would there be a 20 level base class for each Brawler?

Morph Bark
2010-09-20, 03:41 AM
Would there be a 20 level base class for each Brawler?

Not counting clones, of course. And I think you could put highly similar ones together, too.

Ziegander
2010-09-20, 03:52 AM
Or perhaps make them Tome of Battle-type martial disciplines? Save the Princess discipline would represent Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, and perhaps even Toadstool, while the Fire Emblem discipline would obviously take care of Marth, Roy, and Ike.

Samm
2010-09-20, 04:13 AM
Or perhaps make them Tome of Battle-type martial disciplines? Save the Princess discipline would represent Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, and perhaps even Toadstool, while the Fire Emblem discipline would obviously take care of Marth, Roy, and Ike.

Lol.

What about Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede? They're quite unique. You'd need one for ROB, Bowser... The list goes on and on...

However, you could group Bowser and Dedede, together in the "BBEG" discipline.

Morph Bark
2010-09-20, 04:19 AM
However, you could group Bowser and Dedede, together in the "BBEG" discipline.

"Big Bowser-Educated Groupies"? :smallamused:

Samm
2010-09-20, 06:21 AM
"Big Bowser-Educated Groupies"? :smallamused:

Big Bad Evil Guy. :smallannoyed:

Yeah... They also have some similar abilities.

Ziegander
2010-09-20, 08:02 AM
Lol.

What about Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede? They're quite unique. You'd need one for ROB, Bowser... The list goes on and on...

However, you could group Bowser and Dedede, together in the "BBEG" discipline.

Yeah, I just listed the easiest ones. Meta Knight and Pit could be evil and good halves of the same discipline (similar to Devoted Spirit, but not). Kirby... and Yoshi could be in the same discipline perhaps... King Dedede, Bowser, and Ganondorf in the same BBEG discipline? This could work as all are big, slow, bruisers.

Eldan
2010-09-20, 08:12 AM
Ganondorf obviously has the same discipline as Falcon.

Morph Bark
2010-09-20, 09:27 AM
Ganondorf obviously has the same discipline as Falcon.

Captain Falcon is easily done as an Unarmed Swordsage focusing on Desert Wind (and probably Setting Sun and Diamond Mind).

Ziegander
2010-09-20, 11:39 AM
So, basically a whole new Tome of Battle installment featuring upwards of 5 disciplines, I doubt new classes are needed, but PrCs for sure, and alternate class features (to represent each of the various Brawlers) themed around SSBB? Sounds good to me! :smallcool: