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zephiros
2010-09-07, 10:53 AM
Just out of curiosity, how many ways do people know of to do it? I'm sure there'll be a lot more than I expect, but I was curious of what some of them are, and what classes are capable of avoiding magic missiles.

Duke of URL
2010-09-07, 10:56 AM
Well, there's shield, of course, as well as the brooch of shielding. Lesser globe of invulnerability works (as does similar spells), as does an antimagic field.

You can counterspell it with magic missile or dispel magic. A ring of counterspells can be used by non-casters.

You can boost your spell resistance to negate the spell.

Mirror image or any other spell/effect that makes you seem to be in one place rather than where you are can be useful as well. However, blink, et. al., do not work as force effects extend into the ethereal plane.

zephiros
2010-09-07, 11:02 AM
2 questions on that then.

A) Are there any planes aside from ethereal that a teleport spell could save you from? And would teleporting long distances (eg to other continents) in the material plane do you any good?

B) So non-casters without magical items are more or less out of luck?

I'm curious to find whatever ways I can but in particular, if there exist any for a rogue or assassin, I'd love to hear them. :P I don't know the assassin spell list unfortunately.

Duke of URL
2010-09-07, 11:08 AM
Let's go to the spell text:


The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature canít be singled out

So, total cover or total concealment work as well. A stealthy character could avoid the magic missile simply by not being able to be targeted (i.e., hidden). The spell offers no save, and always hits a creature that can be targeted, except as noted above.

So, the only ways to avoid it are to counter it (with a spell or similar effect, or be close enough to AoO the casting, assuming it isn't being cast defensively and you don;t have a way around that), resist it (spell resistance), simply not be there, prevent yourself from being targeted (hiding, sanctuary, etc.), or offer a decoy (mirror image, etc.).

So, to your questions...

A) Anywhere out of range of the spell would keep you safe, of course. Also, within range, but non-targetable (total cover or concealment).

B) Total cover or total concealment certainly work. Staying out of range, too. Interrupting the spell via AoO is possible, but unlikely to be very effective between defensive casting and 5' steps.

Crasical
2010-09-07, 11:08 AM
2 questions on that then.

A) Are there any planes aside from ethereal that a teleport spell could save you from? And would teleporting long distances (eg to other continents) in the material plane do you any good?

B) So non-casters without magical items are more or less out of luck?

I'm curious to find whatever ways I can but in particular, if there exist any for a rogue or assassin, I'd love to hear them. :P I don't know the assassin spell list unfortunately.

A. Plane-shifting to dodge magic missiles seems wasteful to me. As long as you're still in the same plane or Ethereal, though, I believe the magic missile will still hit you.

B. Pretty much. Are you really so worried about getting struck by magic missiles?

Abies
2010-09-07, 11:11 AM
2 questions on that then.

A) Are there any planes aside from ethereal that a teleport spell could save you from? And would teleporting long distances (eg to other continents) in the material plane do you any good?

B) So non-casters without magical items are more or less out of luck?

I'm curious to find whatever ways I can but in particular, if there exist any for a rogue or assassin, I'd love to hear them. :P I don't know the assassin spell list unfortunately.

Not quite sure what you're asking here, Magic Missile is an instantaneous effect, so once its cast youre get hit, there really is not a travel time involved. Unless you have a readied action or an instant effect set to go off in the event of being targeted with MM, you're going to get hit.

If you did have a contingent teleport set to whisk you away to the other side of the world or another plane, I guess you'd be ok so long as it was out of range of the spell. (And any other plane that's not the etherial would be fine, except maybe Shadow)

Total cover would prevent any damage since MM does not damage inanimate objects, but a Tower Shield would not help since the descriptive text of tower shield specifically says its does not...

So, yeah magic item-less, noncasters are pretty much out of luck.

Ormagoden
2010-09-07, 11:12 AM
Move out of the spells range.

Contingency teleport...although i'd much rather buy a brooch or 4

true_shinken
2010-09-07, 11:16 AM
A weapon enchanted with Spellblade (Magic Missile) works as well.

Dr.Epic
2010-09-07, 11:18 AM
I know there's a magical item. I forget what it's called.

2xMachina
2010-09-07, 11:21 AM
Hmm, try to use Anklet of Translocation to remove LoS? You need walls and doors to do that though.

zephiros
2010-09-07, 11:45 AM
@Crasical Oh I'm not worried about being hit. I'm worried about missing. In RP it seems one of the other members of the party is becoming a little assertive. This is just in case they need to be roughed up a bit. :smallamused:

Crasical
2010-09-07, 11:47 AM
@Crasical Oh I'm not worried about being hit. I'm worried about missing. In RP it seems one of the other members of the party is becoming a little assertive. This is just in case they need to be roughed up a bit. :smallamused:

Well that really does put a different spin on the question, doesn't it?:smallbiggrin:

Make sure he doesn't have Shield or anything like it, and you're golden, sounds like.

Lysander
2010-09-07, 11:55 AM
There's also spell resistance.

ericgrau
2010-09-07, 12:00 PM
Mirror image
Can be destroyed with 1 swarm of magic missiles, plus one of them hits the caster.

Shield and brooch of shielding are standard ways. The brooch is preferred b/c you won't want to waste an action on shield until after you get hit... and then you're already hurting. Likewise counterspelling is rather inefficient b/c it takes a readied action which you wouldn't think to do until after you're hit. Really magic missile is so uncommon the best way is to get more hitpoints. Or other things that are handy in general, like the SR lysander suggested. Put shield on a scroll for emergencies, but I wouldn't even waste a prepared spell on it.

zephiros
2010-09-07, 09:43 PM
Yeah unless the assassin learns shield (don't think so?), I know she has no magic items, or spell resistance....and I don't think they learn any strong counterspells either...if they learn any. Or have SR.

holywhippet
2010-09-07, 10:02 PM
Mirror image

Can be destroyed with 1 swarm of magic missiles, plus one of them hits the caster.


I don't think so. Mirror image makes up to 8 images and a successful attack against any single image destroys it. Magic missile tops out at 5 missiles per casting - you can make each missile hit a different target but there's no guarantee it will hit the real one.

There are some more exotic ways of avoiding a magic missile. Forcecage will block them. If the target is a strong enough caster, spell immunity can be used to block that spell specifically.

Note that shield may or may not be 100% reliable depending on how you read it. It's open to debate as to whether the shield spell blocks magic missile spells or the disk it creates blocks them.

dextercorvia
2010-09-07, 10:30 PM
Note that shield may or may not be 100% reliable depending on how you read it. It's open to debate as to whether the shield spell blocks magic missile spells or the disk it creates blocks them.

Neither. I'd say negates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) is a fairly strong (i.e. 100%) word.

Mando Knight
2010-09-07, 10:46 PM
Note that shield may or may not be 100% reliable depending on how you read it. It's open to debate as to whether the shield spell blocks magic missile spells or the disk it creates blocks them.

Unless you (re)introduce facing rules into 3.5, this isn't an issue. The disk is assumed to always be facing where it's most helpful to the caster.

2xMachina
2010-09-07, 10:47 PM
It's a magical floating disk. Not much of a stretch that it'll move to intercept.

holywhippet
2010-09-07, 10:59 PM
I might be too used to 3.0 where you had to manually set it.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-08, 12:41 AM
I don't think so. Mirror image makes up to 8 images and a successful attack against any single image destroys it. Magic missile tops out at 5 missiles per casting - you can make each missile hit a different target but there's no guarantee it will hit the real one.

There are some more exotic ways of avoiding a magic missile. Forcecage will block them. If the target is a strong enough caster, spell immunity can be used to block that spell specifically.

Note that shield may or may not be 100% reliable depending on how you read it. It's open to debate as to whether the shield spell blocks magic missile spells or the disk it creates blocks them.

Technically, a force missile mage can increase that number by two.

In addition, there is a bigger version of force missile in SpC, with plenty more missiles.


And to echo what others already said, the various "shield" spells do in fact negate magic missile. Unless you're a force missile mage, in which case, you don't care.

Schylerwalker
2010-09-08, 05:02 AM
Spell turning would work, and it would be hilarious.

Kudaku
2010-09-08, 05:15 AM
Nightshield (cleric/wizard 1) would do it too, it's in SC.

Malbordeus
2010-09-08, 06:19 AM
theres a ring that counters spells too.

Chain MM (SpC) is a pretty powerful version of MM that goes up to 10

however, unless you are aiming to kill said assasin, i'd advise not doing it, MM deals LETHAL damage, not non lethal or temporary damage, and from a rp point of view, if somone deals lethal damage to you, they are trying to kill you, not annoy you, or get a point accross.
i'd suggest using a different spell to aggravate the guy like Blind/deafen or bestow curse while he's asleep(scare/fear are good ways of embarrasing other players while keeping it funny) or use glitterdust/web on him first.

ways to avoid MM that he may have however - if he wins initiative and casts Swift invisibility you may be stuffed and mounted inside of a round. make sure he cant see you, or is distracted with something else before casting to make sure you get a supprise round on him.

Curmudgeon
2010-09-08, 06:38 AM
B) So non-casters without magical items are more or less out of luck?
Some of them, yes. But anyone able to Hide better than the caster can Spot can't be targeted. So Assassins and Shadowdancers with Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight are virtually immune.

hamishspence
2010-09-08, 06:59 AM
Force dragons get immunity to force as an extraordinary ability:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonEpic.htm#forceDragon

However, turning yourself into one of those might be extreme overkill when there are easier ways.

Duke of URL
2010-09-08, 07:35 AM
however, unless you are aiming to kill said assasin, i'd advise not doing it, MM deals LETHAL damage, not non lethal or temporary damage, and from a rp point of view, if somone deals lethal damage to you, they are trying to kill you, not annoy you, or get a point accross.
i'd suggest using a different spell to aggravate the guy like Blind/deafen or bestow curse while he's asleep(scare/fear are good ways of embarrasing other players while keeping it funny) or use glitterdust/web on him first.

Whelm is a good option here. If you can rule that [Force] is an energy type, there's also Nonlethal Substitution (force) as a +0 metamagic.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-08, 07:50 AM
Also, spell immunity.

Veros
2010-09-08, 08:35 AM
I don't know... If a person has 50 hp and an attack does a max of 49 not counting critical hits... It sounds non-lethal to me. =D

But I'm probably weird like that. =P

Malbordeus
2010-09-08, 08:48 AM
Veros: however you dont know necessarily if they have taken damage already without hideously metagaming. its like saying in D&D modern that a gun only does 2D8 damage, therefore you having 16+hp means i cant kill you by Shooting you in the face

magic missile while doing minimal Hp damage is still an equivalent to opening fire on somone.
ask Saph sometime about how funny explosive runes really is :P

Duke: force is a type of energy... although i'm not sure if its a type that nonlethal spell can affect. nice idea though, i may play a nonlethal blaster at some point :P

true_shinken
2010-09-08, 09:07 AM
Veros: however you dont know necessarily if they have taken damage already without hideously metagaming. its like saying in D&D modern that a gun only does 2D8 damage, therefore you having 16+hp means i cant kill you by Shooting you in the face
I agree. You can't just stab someone 'because they have more than X hp' and expect it not to be seen as lethal.
Maybe in a OOTS-like campaign, where you know how hit points work and the like, but certainly not in the usual D&D game.

Emmerask
2010-09-08, 09:15 AM
As long as the dmg is not changed via metamagic or secondary effects added
Damage reduction 5/- will not avoid it but the missiles will have no effect on you.

Duke of URL
2010-09-08, 09:16 AM
As long as the dmg is not changed via metamagic or secondary effects added
Damage reduction 5/- will not avoid it but the missiles will have no effect on you.

DR does nothing against spell damage.

Emmerask
2010-09-08, 09:18 AM
oh you are quite right it does nothing, damn houserules always get int the way ^^.

dextercorvia
2010-09-08, 10:44 AM
Whelm is a good option here. If you can rule that [Force] is an energy type, there's also Nonlethal Substitution (force) as a +0 metamagic.

Nonlethal Substitution is a +1 metamagic actually. That always struck me as odd.

Also, ways to get more magic missiles than 5 -- Reserves of Strength. Not really worth it by itself, but with other CL boosts (and Fell Drain) it could be. Bestowing a negative level on an extra combatant or 5 each round would be worth 1d6 damage to me.

Lapak
2010-09-08, 10:54 AM
If you're talking about another party member, and you're talking about beating them up 'to teach them a lesson' without killing them, you should keep in mind that there is a 100% effective way to avoid Magic Missiles once you've given them warning: killing the caster before he can send them.
- in his sleep
- with a bow, which out-ranges them
- while he's flatfooted and in melee range
- any of 1000 other times

Once party conflict hits the attacking-each-other point, it will end in killing-each-other 9 times out of 10. So I'd recommend either "don't escalate to violence," or "don't leave them alive," because party members are uniquely placed to take advantage of the most significant weak point of spellcasters: being attacked by someone already inside your defenses when you're unprepared or spent.

Tyndmyr
2010-09-08, 11:38 AM
I prefer hold person for a warning. Works great on non-casters, and doesn't quite escalate things to lethal levels. Also, you can then talk to them about it without risking anything untoward happening.

ericgrau
2010-09-08, 12:03 PM
I don't think so. Mirror image makes up to 8 images and a successful attack against any single image destroys it. Magic missile tops out at 5 missiles per casting - you can make each missile hit a different target but there's no guarantee it will hit the real one.
While mirror image has a higher cap than magic missile, magic missile keeps up until it caps at level 9. Past that point there's quickened magic missile.


Note that shield may or may not be 100% reliable depending on how you read it. It's open to debate as to whether the shield spell blocks magic missile spells or the disk it creates blocks them.
Shield stops magic missiles because the spell says it stops magic missiles, specifically. There are no other relevant rules on the matter in 3.5.

Choco
2010-09-08, 01:30 PM
The best way to avoid magic missiles is simply to destroy in the face whatever would cast them at you before it has a chance to get it off!

Wall of Force would work too, due to interrupting line of effect. That and I think force effects stop magic missiles anyway.