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heymejack
2010-09-08, 10:32 PM
got in an argument today about attacks of opportunity. i have always been under the impression that no matter what, a given creature (player, non-player, monster, god, whatever) can get one, count 'em, one attack of opportunity against any other given creature. no matter what. you move through three of my squares? i get an AoO for the first. you pick up your weapon and cast a spell? i get ONE AoO.

am i crazy? did i make this rule up? it's just the way we've ALWAYS played, and i thought it was the real rules.

my friend insists, however, that a person making 5 ranged attacks within your reach provokes 5 attacks of opportunity. is it true?

gomipile
2010-09-08, 10:36 PM
Here's a quote from the SRD:

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

That implies that a character can provoke multiple AoOs on the same turn

Lhurgyof
2010-09-08, 10:46 PM
got in an argument today about attacks of opportunity. i have always been under the impression that no matter what, a given creature (player, non-player, monster, god, whatever) can get one, count 'em, one attack of opportunity against any other given creature. no matter what. you move through three of my squares? i get an AoO for the first. you pick up your weapon and cast a spell? i get ONE AoO.

am i crazy? did i make this rule up? it's just the way we've ALWAYS played, and i thought it was the real rules.

my friend insists, however, that a person making 5 ranged attacks within your reach provokes 5 attacks of opportunity. is it true?

A character can take ONE attack of opportunity per turn. If it's multiple people, then they can hit you 5 times.

Edit: Ninja'd.

mobdrazhar
2010-09-08, 10:52 PM
As stated with Combat Reflexes you would be able to make multiple AoO against a creature in the same round, however without it you would only be able to make 1 AoO against the creature each round regardless of how many provoking actions they use

Private-Prinny
2010-09-08, 10:56 PM
At least this isn't as bad as my group, where the DM insists that moving into a threatened square provokes an AoO. Despite me showing him proof otherwise. Four times.

But yeah, a character can provoke multiple AoOs in one turn. The major caveat is that any one move action provokes 1 AoO per person, no matter how many threatened squares you move through. If, however, someone moved out of one of your threatened squares and then cast a spell, you would get to make 2 AoOs (assuming Combat Reflexes). Likewise, if someone cast a swift action spell and a standard action spell in the same turn in one of your threatened squares, you would get 2 AoOs, one for each spell.

I think.

Douglas
2010-09-08, 10:58 PM
Assuming you have Combat Reflexes and enough dexterity, you can make a potentially very large number of AoOs against a single creature in the same round. 5 ranged attacks? 5 AoOs. Move and cast? 2 AoOs. Stand from prone and attack unarmed? 2 AoOs.

The rule your mistake is likely based on is that specifically for movement-based AoOs leaving multiple squares in the same round only counts as one provocation. Move directly away, exiting threatened area immediately but not using the Withdraw action? 1 AoO. Run 15 complete circles around someone, staying in his threatened area the entire time? 1 AoO.


Likewise, if someone cast a swift action spell and a standard action spell in the same turn in one of your threatened squares, you would get 2 AoOs, one for each spell.
Swift action spells don't provoke, actually.

gomipile
2010-09-08, 11:58 PM
Assuming you have Combat Reflexes and enough dexterity, you can make a potentially very large number of AoOs against a single creature in the same round. 5 ranged attacks? 5 AoOs. Move and cast? 2 AoOs. Stand from prone and attack unarmed? 2 AoOs.

The rule your mistake is likely based on is that specifically for movement-based AoOs leaving multiple squares in the same round only counts as one provocation. Move directly away, exiting threatened area immediately but not using the Withdraw action? 1 AoO. Run 15 complete circles around someone, staying in his threatened area the entire time? 1 AoO.


Per enemy.

Jornophelanthas
2010-09-09, 06:28 AM
Suppose that you don't have the Combat Reflexes feat, and therefore have only one attack of opportunity per round. Whenever someone provokes an attack of opportunity from you, you have the choice whether or not you are actually going to make that attack, or to wait for another provocation and make the attack of opportunity on that one.

Suppose you are threatening a spellcaster and a weak minion. The minion goes first and moves past you, provoking an attack of opportunity. You have the option of ignoring that provocation, keeping your single attack of opportunity in reserve for when/if the spellcaster decides to cast a spell (non-defensively).

You are not obliged to make an attack of opportunity at the first provocation. Still, you will likely do so in most cases, since it probably will be the only provocation that round, anyway.

panaikhan
2010-09-09, 07:21 AM
in one of the OOTS pages, Roy charges a half-ogre(?) with a spiked chain, and gets AoO'd twice before he gets there.

If this is correct, how is it done?

Duke of URL
2010-09-09, 07:26 AM
in one of the OOTS pages, Roy charges a half-ogre(?) with a spiked chain, and gets AoO'd twice before he gets there.

If this is correct, how is it done?

I think it's been established that that particular comic is not rule-correct, because it used a flawed (but common) interpretation of the AoO on movement rules.

That said, assuming Roy was charging, the half-ogre could get a second AoO if he also had the Hold the Line feat. (Actually, that one would be first, when Roy enters the threatened area. Then the normal AoO for when he leaves the threatened area.

heymejack
2010-09-09, 07:31 AM
awesome, good to know. thank you very much.

Snake-Aes
2010-09-09, 07:32 AM
AoOs kinda have to be looked by both attacker and provoker's points of view

If an action is listed as provoking an attack of opportunity, everyone that threatened the provoker gains the AoO.
Unless an action is stated to only provoke once per round (like movement), then the provoker provokes again every time he does it.

Without combat reflexes, characters can only perform one attack of opportunity per round.

Greenish
2010-09-09, 09:34 AM
in one of the OOTS pages, Roy charges a half-ogre(?) with a spiked chain, and gets AoO'd twice before he gets there.The half-ogre mentions having spent 5 feats for it, so they'd be

Combat Reflexes
Hold the Line
Dodge
Spring Attack
EWP: Spiked Chain
Then Mobility as an armour property to qualify for Spring Attack, though the ogre wouldn't really need that chain (if he invested in Tumble, or to a way of stopping the attacker).

Alternatively, he picked Mobility as a feat and used Spiked Chain with the non-proficiency penalty.

Either way it'd work as described (except that Roy ought to get a hit in with each charge).

herrhauptmann
2010-09-09, 09:48 AM
The half-ogre mentions having spent 5 feats for it, so they'd be

Combat Reflexes
Hold the Line
Dodge
Spring Attack
EWP: Spiked Chain
Then Mobility as an armour property to qualify for Spring Attack, though the ogre wouldn't really need that chain (if he invested in Tumble, or to a way of stopping the attacker).

Alternatively, he picked Mobility as a feat and used Spiked Chain with the non-proficiency penalty.

Either way it'd work as described (except that Roy ought to get a hit in with each charge).
Mobility armor first appeared in the MiC right? That was way after that particular comic was released. Besides, the OOTS typically sticks to core spells and monsters. They even lampshaded it in comic 32 (first appearance of the lawyers), and in Haley's fight with Tsukiko
Mobility feat and non-proficient with chain, that'd work, but I doubt the ogre would've hit that reliably. And again with the whole keeping core thing...

Besides, I personally disagree with the idea that items and spells can be used to grant access to feats and prestige classes...

Snake-Aes
2010-09-09, 09:50 AM
You are overthinking it. Rich just ignored the rules.

RebelRogue
2010-09-09, 10:34 AM
You are overthinking it. Rich just ignored the rules.
Actually, I'm pretty sure he just thought they worked that way.

Also, didn't Roy fail a AoO exam in OtooPCs? That would be great fridge logic :smallwink:

Greenish
2010-09-09, 10:52 AM
Mobility armor first appeared in the MiC right? That was way after that particular comic was released. Besides, the OOTS typically sticks to core spells and monsters. They even lampshaded it in comic 32 (first appearance of the lawyers), and in Haley's fight with Tsukiko
Mobility feat and non-proficient with chain, that'd work, but I doubt the ogre would've hit that reliably. And again with the whole keeping core thing...Well, the whole spring attack chain is rather extraneous to the ogre's fighting style. I'd have gone with Imp. Trip or Stand Still to prevent taking damage altogether.

And yeah, Roy mentioned his poor grades in AoO class in the very same page.

As for items to qualify for feats… Yeah, I do think it as bad form, but then again Dodge and Mobility are both poor and boring feats. I only mentioned it because the ogre told he'd burned five feats for his trick, and I couldn't make it match otherwise. (Though Burlew probably wasn't thinking about Hold the Line.)

KillianHawkeye
2010-09-09, 11:15 AM
I'm pretty sure Rich mentioned on the OotS forums that he had messed up on that strip. Either that, or rules accuracy was sacrificed for the sake of the punch-line.

VirOath
2010-09-09, 11:32 AM
I'm pretty sure Rich mentioned on the OotS forums that he had messed up on that strip. Either that, or rules accuracy was sacrificed for the sake of the punch-line.

I believe he mentioned both, first being true and latter being the excuse :smalltongue:

Duke of URL
2010-09-09, 11:46 AM
(except that Roy ought to get a hit in with each charge)

Not necessarily. I think the half-ogre could ready his attack on his action, take the AoOs Roy provokes, then his regular, readied action, which takes him out of Roy's current reach, and if he doesn't move back in a straight line, it foils a continuation of the charge.

"I ready an action to move 5' to the left, attack, and move 15' back if someone gets within 10' of me."

Assuming we've added Hold the Line, Roy takes an AoO for entering the threat range, another for leaving it (though this is somewhat rules-nebulous, as movement should only provoke once, but you could argue specific vs. general, too...), and then the readied action is taken. Roy can't continue the charge, because the half-ogre is no longer in a straight line away from Roy's original position.

Of course, Roy should not charge again, but just do a move + standard action. The problem is, he's now one square too far away to get there with a human land speed when wearing heavy or medium armor (20'), plus the half-ogre's readied action for the next round kicks in anyway.

But that might not work after the first time... the half-ogre can't ready an action again until his next turn... hmmm...

Greenish
2010-09-09, 11:55 AM
"I ready an action to move 5' to the left, attack, and move 15' back if someone gets within 10' of me."You can only ready standard, move or free actions.

Assuming we've added Hold the Line, Roy takes an AoO for entering the threat range, another for leaving it (though this is somewhat rules-nebulous, as movement should only provoke once, but you could argue specific vs. general, too...)The actual line, at least in SRD is "[m]oving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent". No nebulousity here.

hamishspence
2010-09-09, 12:00 PM
You can only ready standard, move or free actions.
The actual line, at least in SRD is "[m]oving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent". No nebulousity here.

So, if you emphasise the "out of" then it makes sense for there to be 2 AoOs- because it's only moving out of multiple squares that can only provoke 1 AoO- not moving into squares?

Makes sense to me.

Greenish
2010-09-09, 12:06 PM
So, if you emphasise the "out of" then it makes sense for there to be 2 AoOs- because it's only moving out of multiple squares that can only provoke 1 AoO- not moving into squares?Pretty much my point. Normal AoO triggers when the target moves out of a threatened square (and can only be triggered once per turn), Hold the Line triggers when the target charges into a threatened square.

Hold the Line doesn't even specify it can only occur once per turn, but has the pesky "[y]our attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved" clause. The designer clearly wasn't thinking that the combatants might have different reach.