Castiel
2010-09-11, 01:17 AM
I have an idea for a class, but as I was reading a post on the forums called "on the philosophy of class design" (link at the bottom) I came across some points that made me question whether or not it was really needed.
So the question is whether or not Pathfinder needs a Gish class that is meant to be prestige, but could easily become a base class as well. There are many paths for a divine character (Aside from the base classes you have the Holy Vindicator, the Hell Knight, even the Mystic Theurge if thats how you play), the same goes for a rogue class (shadow dancer, master spy, assassin). Each class seems to have a prestige class or two that it can make a transfer into, but the specific roll that a Gish fills is left mostly wide open.
In Pathfinder, there is only the Eldritch Knight, which I dislike (that may just be me though). I find that it limits your ability to wear armor because it lacks any class abilities to reduce spell failure and I can't find any feats that do it. The problem is solved by mithril breast plate, which is good armor, but you still have a 20% spell failure (off the top of my head, I could be wrong), you can't use heavy armor's and do any real casting, and you can't wield two handed weapons because of somatic components. So basically a fighter will have better AC, deal better damage, and a sorcerer will always cast more often than you, and probably live longer because they aren't in the middle of combat. So, I pretty much feel like the class is them giving a sorcerer/wizard some fighter bonus feats, full BAB and taking away everything else (bloodlines for the sorcerer). There is nothing particularly special about it, nothing that makes me go "ooh... I wanna play that!" I find myself moving towards the Inquisitor to fill the role I want, and I don't normally like to play divine themed characters.
Anyways, I may be completely wrong, and the Eldritch Knight may fill that role perfectly. If that is the case, then I'd be glad to hear it, because there isn't any need to do unnecessary work.
However, if the role isn't filled properly I might have a solution. I think the hardest thing to do when making a melee-caster is to find a way to make casting in combat a viable option. I have a possible solutions:
In order to cast a spell the player must succeed a dexterity check. This could represent a hand sign that channels arcane/divine energy. The DC of the check would be something along the lines of 10+Spell Level+a distraction level (and maybe additional points if the player is wearing gloves). Additionally the player would have a variable casting time where the amount over the DC that he roles determines the casting time (e.x. if the player attempts to cast a 5th level spell the DC would be 15. If the player rolled a 15-17 it would be a full round action, 18-20 would be standard, and 21-23 would be move action, etc.) Using the sorcerer chart for spell advancement you would be at LEAST level ten before you could cast a 5th level spell, and it would be safe to assume that a character of that level could have a DEX around 20 (or higher) if they tried which gives them a +5 bonus to their check. This means that 40% of the time it will be a standard action, and 25% of the time it would only be a move action, so you could still attack as well.
This allows them to potentially do some combat damage as well as magic damage. However it could become broken if you can cast in heavy armor, and you buff up your Dex score. A solution would be to restrict heavy/medium armor/ apply the armor check penalty to the DC to cast a spell. So if a 10th level player wanted to cast a fifth level spell while he was wearing normal full plate the DC would be 21 and the increments would be 21-23,24-26, and 27-29 which makes it considerably more difficult to cast in a decent time.
This is purely speculative and has not been playtested at all, and I am positive I have overlooked something. If it is extremely broken tell me, because I'd like to work at it. If you think it could be the basis for a new class, then I'd love all of the assistance I can get. If the role is already filled, thats fine too, again this is purely for the fun of it, so any advice/insight is appreciated. I'm also fairly new to Pathfinder so I may have misunderstood some of the rules, and I may also have missed some feats, or other things that would change everything. If I have, I apologize beforehand.
Other things to consider
- Channeling spells through a weapon (similar to duskblade)
- Runes on armor allowing for spells to be cast
- A Full Metal Alchemist like class where you use drawn circles to cast spells, and transform the world into a weapon
- A way to avoid attacks of opportunity when casting spells
Thanks.
On the Philosophy of Class Design~~
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55947
So the question is whether or not Pathfinder needs a Gish class that is meant to be prestige, but could easily become a base class as well. There are many paths for a divine character (Aside from the base classes you have the Holy Vindicator, the Hell Knight, even the Mystic Theurge if thats how you play), the same goes for a rogue class (shadow dancer, master spy, assassin). Each class seems to have a prestige class or two that it can make a transfer into, but the specific roll that a Gish fills is left mostly wide open.
In Pathfinder, there is only the Eldritch Knight, which I dislike (that may just be me though). I find that it limits your ability to wear armor because it lacks any class abilities to reduce spell failure and I can't find any feats that do it. The problem is solved by mithril breast plate, which is good armor, but you still have a 20% spell failure (off the top of my head, I could be wrong), you can't use heavy armor's and do any real casting, and you can't wield two handed weapons because of somatic components. So basically a fighter will have better AC, deal better damage, and a sorcerer will always cast more often than you, and probably live longer because they aren't in the middle of combat. So, I pretty much feel like the class is them giving a sorcerer/wizard some fighter bonus feats, full BAB and taking away everything else (bloodlines for the sorcerer). There is nothing particularly special about it, nothing that makes me go "ooh... I wanna play that!" I find myself moving towards the Inquisitor to fill the role I want, and I don't normally like to play divine themed characters.
Anyways, I may be completely wrong, and the Eldritch Knight may fill that role perfectly. If that is the case, then I'd be glad to hear it, because there isn't any need to do unnecessary work.
However, if the role isn't filled properly I might have a solution. I think the hardest thing to do when making a melee-caster is to find a way to make casting in combat a viable option. I have a possible solutions:
In order to cast a spell the player must succeed a dexterity check. This could represent a hand sign that channels arcane/divine energy. The DC of the check would be something along the lines of 10+Spell Level+a distraction level (and maybe additional points if the player is wearing gloves). Additionally the player would have a variable casting time where the amount over the DC that he roles determines the casting time (e.x. if the player attempts to cast a 5th level spell the DC would be 15. If the player rolled a 15-17 it would be a full round action, 18-20 would be standard, and 21-23 would be move action, etc.) Using the sorcerer chart for spell advancement you would be at LEAST level ten before you could cast a 5th level spell, and it would be safe to assume that a character of that level could have a DEX around 20 (or higher) if they tried which gives them a +5 bonus to their check. This means that 40% of the time it will be a standard action, and 25% of the time it would only be a move action, so you could still attack as well.
This allows them to potentially do some combat damage as well as magic damage. However it could become broken if you can cast in heavy armor, and you buff up your Dex score. A solution would be to restrict heavy/medium armor/ apply the armor check penalty to the DC to cast a spell. So if a 10th level player wanted to cast a fifth level spell while he was wearing normal full plate the DC would be 21 and the increments would be 21-23,24-26, and 27-29 which makes it considerably more difficult to cast in a decent time.
This is purely speculative and has not been playtested at all, and I am positive I have overlooked something. If it is extremely broken tell me, because I'd like to work at it. If you think it could be the basis for a new class, then I'd love all of the assistance I can get. If the role is already filled, thats fine too, again this is purely for the fun of it, so any advice/insight is appreciated. I'm also fairly new to Pathfinder so I may have misunderstood some of the rules, and I may also have missed some feats, or other things that would change everything. If I have, I apologize beforehand.
Other things to consider
- Channeling spells through a weapon (similar to duskblade)
- Runes on armor allowing for spells to be cast
- A Full Metal Alchemist like class where you use drawn circles to cast spells, and transform the world into a weapon
- A way to avoid attacks of opportunity when casting spells
Thanks.
On the Philosophy of Class Design~~
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55947