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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class New Base Class: The Teleporter (Version 2.3, Finished!)



Saph
2010-09-19, 09:57 AM
21/3/2011 - New feats added! See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10599227#post10599227) for details.



The Teleporter


The teleporter is similar to the warmage, beguiler, or dread necromancer in that he specialises in one or two schools of arcane magic, but while warmages destroy and beguilers deceive, teleporters travel. While teleporters cannot summon energy as a wizard or sorcerer can, they can move things faster, better, more often, and more freely than any other spellcaster. Since the ability to travel is of little use without the right information, teleporters also learn divination magic to be able to communicate with and view distant lands, and as a natural consequence of their powers they become skilled at disrupting or blocking the travel magic of their enemies.

In an adventuring party teleporters function primarily as support, transporting party members in and out of danger. They also have a limited ability to fill the roles of scout or damage dealer. While teleporters lack the firepower of most arcane casters and the restorative magic of divine ones, a surprising amount of problems can be solved by putting the right person in the right place at the right time.

A female teleporter is sometimes called a teleportress.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/th/9/93/Suikoden_viki.jpg


Viki, a teleporter

Abilities: Charisma is your primary stat, as it determines the quantity and effectiveness of your spells. Constitution and Dexterity are also useful, as with any character; a teleporter has a low Hit Die and benefits from extra hit points, and their inability to wear armour makes Dexterity valuable. Intelligence is a good fourth choice, to benefit your knowledge skills.

Races: Adaptability and wanderlust means that humans and half-elves are the most common races among teleporters, though halflings and elves also appreciate the freedom to travel in their long lifetimes. Dwarves and half-orcs rarely become teleporters due to ther less forceful personalities and a general lack of interest in seeing the world.

Alignment: While teleporters can be of any alignment, their tendency to travel constantly and never settle down causes them to lean towards chaos. Good-aligned teleporters use their powers to move people out of danger and to help them get where they need to go, while evil teleporters commit nefarious deeds and then vanish into thin air before they can be brought to answer for their crimes. Neutral teleporters, more common than either, simply use their abilities for profit, either joining mages' guilds or the Wayfarer's Union, or working for anyone with a need for fast transport and the money to pay for it.

The Teleporter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Displacer field, hostile teleportation|5|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Abrupt Jaunt|6|4|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Advanced learning|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Teleportation spell power +1|6|6|4|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Enhanced capacity|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Advanced learning|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Dimensional Jaunt|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Dimensional freedom|6|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Teleportation spell power +2|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Advanced learning|6|6|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Improved enhanced capacity|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Improved Abrupt Jaunt|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|-|-|-

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9||6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Advanced learning, teleportation spell power +3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|-|-

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Endless teleportation|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|-

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Greater enhanced capacity|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Advanced learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Teleportation spell power +4, dimensional mastery|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6[/table]


Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Speak Language (none), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill Points Per Level: 2 + Int modifier (x4 at first level)

Starting Gold: 3d4 x 10 (75 gp)

Starting Age: As sorcerer (PHB 109)



Class Features

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Teleporters are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff. Teleporters are not proficient with any kind of armour or shield. Armour of any type interferes with a teleporter's gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: A teleporter casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the teleporter spell list below. When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all the spells for that level on the teleporter's spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. Essentially, your spell list is the same as your spells known list. You also have the option of adding to your existing spell list through your advanced learning class feature (see below).

To cast a teleporter spell, you must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a teleporter's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the teleporter's Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a teleporter can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. The base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, you receive bonus spells for a high Charisma score (PHB 8).

A teleporter need not prepare spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your spells per day for that spell level.

Displacer Field (Su): While teleporters do not learn to use armour as warmages, beguilers, and dread necromancers do, and have only a fraction of the defensive spells of a wizard or sorcerer, they benefit from a powerful defensive teleportation field. When you are targeted by an attack which you are aware of (including melee and ranged attacks, as well as single-target spells and effects, but not area effects), you may attempt a displacer field check as an immediate action: roll 1d20 + your Charisma modifier + your caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) spells. The DC of this check is equal to the opposing attack roll. If the opposing attack is a spell or effect which does not use an attack roll (e.g. a single-target spell such as hold person) the DC is 11 + the spell or effect's caster level.

If the check succeeds, and the attack is a ranged attack, spell, or effect, you may redirect the attack as you teleport the shot or spell energy elsewhere. Pick a new legal target for the attack to which you have line of sight and line of effect. If the attack used an attack roll, the result of your displacer field check becomes the new attack roll.

Against melee attacks, the displacer field functions differently; in this case, the attacker is teleported up to 30 feet horizontally to an empty square of your choice. You must have line of sight and line of effect to the destination. If the teleport puts the attacker out of melee range, the attack misses.

You decide whether to make your displacer field check after seeing the result of the opposing attack roll, but before damage or saving throws are rolled. If you fail your check, the attack affects you normally. This ability is an immediate action and can be activated at will.

Example: Viki, a 6th-level teleporter, is targeted by three ranged spike attacks from a manticore. Viki's AC is 18; the manticore's attack rolls are 14, 26, and 19. The first attack misses and the second and third attacks hit. Viki decides to use her displacer field ability against the third attack and rolls a 13. Adding her Charisma modifer of +4 and her caster level of 7, this gives a final result of 24, which is enough to redirect the attack. Viki decides to redirect the attack back at the manticore, and the 24 becomes the new attack roll. Since 24 is enough to beat the manticore's AC, Viki and the manticore are hit with one spike each.

Hostile Teleportation (Ex): A teleporter can use teleportation spells and abilities against an unwilling target, and need not accompany them on their journey. When you use a Conjuration (teleportation) spell or effect that normally requires its targets to be willing, you can attempt to affect unwilling targets as well. Unwilling targets receive a Will save; if they fail, they are teleported.

Furthermore, when using a Conjuration (teleportation) effect which has a target of "You and touched objects or other willing creatures" you may choose to exclude yourself from the effect.

This ability does not extend to spells gained from other spellcasting classes.

Example: Viki, a 6th-level teleporter, casts Dimension Door against a goblin riding a worg. She succeeds on her touch attack against the goblin, and since the goblin and the worg are touching each other, she attempts to affect both of them. Viki's caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) spells is 7th, easily enough to affect both the targets. The destination she chooses is straight up at maximum range, and she chooses to exclude herself from the effect. Both the goblin and the worg receive Will saves. If they fail, they will reappear 680 feet in the air above their current location, probably with unfortunate consequences.

Abrupt Jaunt (Su): At 2nd level, you gain the ability to teleport 10 feet as an immediate action. You can use this ability once per point of Charisma bonus per day (so a teleporter with Charisma 17 could use this ability three times per day). You can't bring other creatures with you, and you can't use this ability in response to an attack you aren't aware of.

At 13th level, you can use this ability at will.

Advanced Learning: At 3rd level, you can add a new spell to your list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a sorcerer/wizard spell of the Conjuration or Divination school and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell you already know. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to your spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on your list.

You gain another new spell at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level.

Teleportation Spell Power: At 5th level, you gain an untyped +1 bonus to your caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) spells and abilities. This bonus increases to +2 at level 10, +3 at level 15, and +4 at level 20.

Enhanced Capacity (Ex): At 6th level, a teleporter learns to transport material more efficiently. When using any spell or effect with the teleportation descriptor that allows other creatures to be brought along (such as teleport or dimension door) the number of Medium or smaller creatures you can bring along is increased from one per three caster levels to one per two caster levels.

At 12th level, the number increases further to one per caster level.

At 18th level, the number becomes unlimited; you can transport any number of creatures, providing all are in contact with each other and at least one is in contact with you.

Dimensional Jaunt: At 8th level, you gain Dimensional Jaunt as a bonus feat (Complete Mage, page 41).

Dimensional Freedom (Ex): At 9th level, a teleporter learns to break through magical effects that would confine them. When one of your spells or abilities would otherwise be blocked by some effect which prevents extradimensional movement (such as dimensional anchor, dimensional lock, or forbiddance) you may make a caster level check, using your normal caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) spells, against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the creator of the effect. If you succeed, your spell or ability works after all. If you fail, your spell or ability is prevented as normal. This ability only works against effects which specifically block travel; it offers no protection against effects which block magic in general (such as counterspelling or antimagic field).

Endless Teleportation (Sp): At 17th level, you gain the ability to use greater teleport as a spell-like ability at will.

Dimensional Mastery (Ex): A 20th-level teleporter has reached the peak of his abilities. Your caster level checks for your Dimensional Freedom ability automatically succeed and you automatically overcome the spell resistance of any creature you target with a Conjuration (teleportation) effect.



Spell List

A teleporter's spell list is very limited, and as spontaneous casters, they are always one level behind prepared casters in terms of spell level. To make up for this, teleporters treat all spells with the Conjuration (teleportation) type as being one spell level lower than they actually are – this is reflected in the table below. Note that only a teleporter benefits from this reduction: a teleporter with the Scribe Scroll feat could create a scroll of dimension door as a 3rd-level spell, but if a wizard were to write it into her spell book, it would be a 4th-level spell as normal.

0-level: arcane mark, benign transposition (SpC), dancing lights, detect magic, hail of stone* (SpC), message, read magic
1st-level: baleful transposition (SpC), comprehend languages, dimension hop (PHB II), identify, feather fall, mage armour, resist planar alignment (SpC), rope trick*
2nd-level: analyze portal (SpC), anticipate teleportation (SpC), blink*, dimension step (PHB II), locate object, portal alarm (SpC), regroup, rocks fall**, scattering trap (PHB II)
3rd-level: arcane sight, avoid planar effects (SpC), baleful blink* (PHB II), clairaudience/clairvoyance, dimension door, dispel magic, greater mage armour (SpC), interplanar message (SpC), translocation trick (SpC), tongues
4th-level: dimensional anchor, dimension jumper (C.Mage), dimension shuffle (PHB II), dismissal, greater blink* (SpC), greater dimension door, improved portal alarm (SpC), locate creature, plane shift, scrying, secret chest*, teleport, zone of respite (SpC)
5th-level: contact other plane, cometfall* (SpC), greater anticipate teleportation (SpC), make manifest (SpC), prying eyes, seal portal (SpC), sending, tactical teleportation (C.Mage)
6th-level: analyze dweomer, banishment, ethereal jaunt*, ghost trap (SpC), greater dispel magic, greater teleport, interplanar telepathic bond (SpC), mage's magnificent mansion*, phase door, planar bubble (SpC), refuge, teleport object, true seeing
7th-level: deadfall* (SpC), greater arcane sight, greater plane shift, greater scrying, mass make manifest (SpC), maze
8th-level: dimensional lock, discern location, etherealness*, gate***, greater dimension jumper (C.Mage), greater prying eyes, teleportation circle
9th-level: astral projection, freedom, imprisonment, mage's disjunction, reality maelstrom (SpC), reaving dispel (SpC), wish****

*The type of these spells is changed to Conjuration (teleportation). Instead of creating or summoning the relevant material, the teleporter teleports it out or in.
**New spell, see below.
***Planar travel effect only.
****Transport travellers effect only.

Spells not contained in the Player's Handbook are abbreviated as follows: C.Mage = Complete Mage, PHB II = Player's Handbook II, SpC = Spell Compendium.

New Spell: Rocks Fall
Rocks Fall
Conjuration (teleportation)
Level: Teleporter 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: 5-foot radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: No

This spell teleports a collection of objects from somewhere in the multiverse into the air directly above the target. The objects immediately fall to the ground with a crash, dealing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all creatures and unattended objects within the target area. The objects then teleport back to their place of origin.

The exact composition of the objects is chosen by the caster at the time of casting, and makes no difference to the effect of the spell. By default, the spell creates rocks, but can also be used to drop stones, logs, bricks, furniture, pianos, anvils, or any other inanimate object the caster can think of.


Adaptions & Notes

The teleporter is designed to be on the power level of the Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warblade, Swordsage, or Crusader; very good at one thing, and moderately good at several others. With the Advanced Learning feature and Use Magic Device skill, a teleporter should be able to hold their own in even a high-power party.

If you want to increase the teleporter's power, you can start adding Conjuration (creation) spells to the teleporter's spell list, the idea being that the teleporter isn't creating the materials, but teleporting them in from somewhere in the multiverse. Be aware however that the Conjuration (creation) spells are among the most powerful in the game, and if you add too many you'll end up making the teleporter better than the Sorcerer in every way.



Using a Teleporter as an NPC

I originally designed the teleporter as an NPC class for one of my campaigns. It's often useful as a DM to provide the players with a means of fast transport. However, a transportation service can be boring if it's too predictable, so if using an NPC teleporter as a taxi service, an interesting variation is to add the following class features:

Ever Ready: At 6th level, a teleporter gains the ability to cast the teleport spell without expending a spell slot. However, if the teleporter does this, roll twice on the mishap chart and take the higher result. In addition, a teleporter's teleport spells have no range limit and need no information on the destination (but see below).

Teleport Mishaps: Teleporters are not, in general, the most reliable of people. When casting teleport or any similar spell, a teleporter does not use the normal familiarity chart from the PHB; instead, roll d100 on the chart below. (It's recommended that you have the players rather than the DM make this roll – it's far more entertaining.) If using greater teleport rather than teleport, a teleporter rolls twice and takes the lower result.

01-10: Thrown through Positive Energy Plane. Everyone teleported is affected as by a heal spell.
11-70: On target.
71-80: Off target by 1d100 % of travel distance in a random direction (roll 1d10 - 1: north, 2: northeast, 3: east, 4: southeast, 5: south, 6: southwest, 7: west, 8: northwest, 9: straight up, 10: straight down.)
81-90: Similar location (anywhere that looks thematically similar to the target).
91-97: Thrown through space. Roll on the Random Planar Destinations table (Spell Compendium, pg 169).
98-100: Thrown through time. Roll another d100 to see when:

01-20: Creation of the world. Consult your campaign world's creation mythology to see what's there.
21-40: Prehistory. Dinosaurs and aboleths.
41-60: Near past. Pick an eventful period within the campaign world's history.
61-80: Future. Dead suns and mind flayers.
81-100: Far future. Modern-day or science fiction setting of the DM's choice.

Getting back through time is at the DM's discretion. It's generally recommended to have the teleporter be able to figure out a way home within rounds, minutes, hours, or days, depending on which number the DM considers most amusing or dramatically appropriate. Really cruel DMs may leave the party stranded in the new timeframe and require them to find their own way back.


Version History
Version 1.0:

-Displacer Field was originally a flat miss chance that forced ranged attacks to miss and melee attackers to be teleported randomly away, starting at 20% at level 1 and rising to 80% at level 19.

Version 2.0:

-Changed Displacer Field from a flat miss chance to an immediate-action opposed check.
-Clarified Dimensional Freedom.
-Moved Improved Abrupt Jaunt to level 13 (reason: dead level).

Version 2.1:

-Added abilities for skills.
-Added starting gold and age.

Version 2.2:

-Added Diplomacy to skill list.
-Removed the spell school change to Mage Armour and Greater Mage Armour.
-Added Tactical Teleportation (C.Mage) to spell list.

Version 2.3:

-Added Wish to spell list (transport effect only).
-Various minor rewordings and rewrites.

Rising Phoenix
2010-09-19, 10:02 AM
At a glance:

I like this, a lot and will most likely properly comment on it when I've had a proper read of it in the morning. :)

R.P.

Edit: Actually just read it. It looks solid. The only issue I could see is with displacer field being a too powerful a defensive mechanism (though very flavourful) and melee needs full attacks. I would remove that.

However, I would let the class teleport a hostile enemies as an immediate action less they succeed on a will save.

Saph
2010-09-19, 10:20 AM
Edit: Actually just read it. It looks solid. The only issue I could see is with displacer field being a too powerful a defensive mechanism (though very flavourful) and melee needs full attacks. I would remove that.

However, I would let the class teleport a hostile enemies as an immediate action less they succeed on a will save.

Could do. It's based off the Warhammer 40K displacer field which teleports the wearer when they're about to be hit. I could change it to do that instead; just have it make the teleporter blink out and reappear a foot or two away, enough to make an attack miss but not enough to shift their position.

Epsilon Rose
2010-09-19, 10:41 AM
I like this class, that said I'm worried about the power of abrupt jaunt and displacement field. At upper levels this characters going to be almost impossible to hit with anything other than an aoe. The at will immediate action teleport means that if anything bad targets them they can just teleport away and even if they don't bother to do that they essentially have an 80% miss chance in addition to what ever else they might have for defenses.

Combined with that the at will greater teleport + hostile teleport is also pretty broken. Think about it, if you spend a couple of nights with a telescope you can teleport enemy fighters to mars with impunity effectively one-shoting anyone who fails there will save.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 11:40 AM
Yeeaaaah, a permanent 80% miss chance against any form of attack is... incredibly broken, especially when you've got abrupt jaunt for the few attacks that actually hit. What's interesting is that, as worded, you can even use a caster level check (without the bonus, granted) in order to keep your miss chance in an AMF... ouch.

Anyway, basically, this class is... very hard to kill with anything that isn't another caster, but it can't do too much, because, besides it's extra chosen spells, it really doesn't have much offensive capability besides "will save or be teleported into space."

Oslecamo
2010-09-19, 12:07 PM
Love this! great work Saph!:smallbiggrin:


Yeeaaaah, a permanent 80% miss chance against any form of attack is... incredibly broken, especially when you've got abrupt jaunt for the few attacks that actually hit.

I believe the contrary, it's incredibly balanced compared to high level casters with more defensive spells that you can shake a stick at.

Plus, it mostly screws fullcasters that want to end battles with a single spell, and that's a very good thing.

The warblade just pulls out his supply of javelins, time stand stills, raging mongoose and overloads the miss chance with moar dakka. The swordsage uses aoe maneuvers. The dread necro sends forth his undead minion hordes.

Also as you mentioned the teleporter's offensive abiity is quite limited, so what's the problem with them being good at keeping themselves alive?

Plus they look more like a support class, teleporting allies into full attack range and/or out of danger.

Morph Bark
2010-09-19, 12:12 PM
I believe the contrary, it's incredibly balanced compared to high level casters with more defensive spells that you can shake a stick at.

Plus, it mostly screws fullcasters that want to end battles with a single spell, and that's a very good thing.

In that case, 80% miss chance would work better against spells only, or ranged attacks only, or both those, but not non-magic melee attacks.

Does miss chance also affect things that don't require an attack roll btw? If not, it could be added that other magical effects requiring a Reflex save could be affected too. Fort- or Will-targeting spells might not work as well in this case, but you could try anyway.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-19, 12:14 PM
So breath weapons, splash weapons, and spells are needed to kill the this thing at higher levels? Worrisome, but it has few attack spells (spells that would cancel invisibility).

I like the idea of it alot.

Seems it has mostly low levels damage/suck spells (a few higher like Maze though). So mostly a buff/utility caster with a few attack ones.

Combined I guess that makes the defensive abilities less problematic. Hard to say till playtested personally.
Some things look stronger on paper than reality (ala Monk).
Either way I like the idea.

Any chance of that Alternate class feature that Warmages get where you can choose any spell but +1 to level instead of Advanced Learning? If not, cool just curious.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 12:16 PM
Plus, it mostly screws fullcasters that want to end battles with a single spell, and that's a very good thing.


Except spells that don't require attack rolls aren't blocked.


The warblade just pulls out his supply of javelins, time stand stills, raging mongoose and overloads the miss chance with moar dakka. The swordsage uses aoe maneuvers. The dread necro sends forth his undead minion hordes.

The miss chance doesn't run out, which means that none of these strategies (save hitting with weak AoE attacks) actually work. "They use all their resources to deal the most damage possible" is their strategy in general, and the 80% reduced damage they take from the abilities of anything but people with AoE attacks is... very, very bad. Not to mention only full casters and hulking hurler's (IIRC) get AoE attacks worth speaking of.


Also as you mentioned the teleporter's offensive abiity is quite limited, so what's the problem with them being good at keeping themselves alive?

Because it's unbalanced. Imagine if the commoner got the ability to never be harmed by anything, ever. That's basically what this is (in an extreme form). It's a class who's offensive capability is a few (conjuration, granted, so very good) spells and will save or dies, but it's nearly impossible to be damaged by anything that isn't a full caster/hulking hurler (and hulking hurler's can be teleported from).


Plus they look more like a support class, teleporting allies into full attack range and/or out of danger.

That is still not an excuse for giving them nigh invulnerability to anything but AoE attacks. It's an unbalanced class feature and probably needs to be reworked or removed. An idea could be a caster level + int bonus check to redirect the attack back at the original attacker, as an immediate action or free action once (maybe twice at higher levels( per round; attacks get checked against attack rolls, spells get checked against the same CL + int check. That way it actually hurts casters using single target spells *more* than it hurts melee, while still giving them some defensive options.

EDIT: Also, with advanced learning, you can fairly easily get a fort save or die/suck and a couple good blast or AoE save or suck spells, which brings the offensive power of this up monumentally. It won't have much flexibility, but it's nigh invulnerable, has massive amounts of utility, and a ready supply of multi target will save or dies.

Saph
2010-09-19, 12:19 PM
I like this class, that said I'm worried about the power of abrupt jaunt and displacement field. At upper levels this characters going to be almost impossible to hit with anything other than an aoe. The at will immediate action teleport means that if anything bad targets them they can just teleport away and even if they don't bother to do that they essentially have an 80% miss chance in addition to what ever else they might have for defenses.

Bear in mind that you get the 80% displacer field at level 19. At that level other casters have things like time stop, shapechange, summon monster IX, gate, wail of the banshee, etc.


Combined with that the at will greater teleport + hostile teleport is also pretty broken. Think about it, if you spend a couple of nights with a telescope you can teleport enemy fighters to mars with impunity effectively one-shoting anyone who fails there will save.

Greater teleport + hostile teleportation still requires both a touch attack and a save. Compare it to, say, irresistable dance. I honestly don't think a touch range at-will save-or-die is particularly broken at level 17 - multi-target save-or-be-screwed spells are available to other classes far earlier than that.


Anyway, basically, this class is... very hard to kill with anything that isn't another caster, but it can't do too much, because, besides it's extra chosen spells, it really doesn't have much offensive capability besides "will save or be teleported into space."

It's got a few attack spells - the teleport line, as well as the 'drop objects on enemy' line. But no, the class isn't supposed to have the direct attack power of a wizard or sorcerer.

For those who think the 80% cap on Displacer Field is too high, what do you think a better number would be? Keep in mind that you aren't going to get the high numbers until very high level, at which level all casters have some pretty ridiculous abilities.


Any chance of that Alternate class feature that Warmages get where you can choose any spell but +1 to level instead of Advanced Learning? If not, cool just curious.

I considered it, but decided that Conjuration was so flexible that you don't really need the option of any other schools. :P Besides, polymorph effects and so on don't really fit thematically.

Oslecamo
2010-09-19, 12:23 PM
Except spells that don't require attack rolls aren't blocked.

The displacer field even works against targeted spells like hold person; the magical energy is redirected somewhere else.

I wasn't aware that hold person needed attack rolls to hit. This is a class for 3.5, not 4e I believe.:smallamused:

"Targeted" spells are spells that have a target, not spells that need attack rolls.:smallwink:



The miss chance doesn't run out, which means that none of these strategies (save hitting with weak AoE attacks) actually work. "They use all their resources to deal the most damage possible" is their strategy in general, and the 80% reduced damage they take from the abilities of anything but people with AoE attacks is... very, very bad.

A decently optimized warblade can easily dish out hundreds of damage with thrown weapons by that level. Reducing it by 80% simply means the d6 teleporter is dead instead of reduced to an indisinguishable pool of blood.



Not to mention only full casters and hulking hurler's (IIRC) get AoE attacks worth speaking of.

If by "worth speaking of" you mean insta gib then yes I'll give you that.



Because it's unbalanced. Imagine if the commoner got the ability to never be harmed by anything, ever. That's basically what this is (in an extreme form). It's a class who's offensive capability is a few (conjuration, granted, so very good) spells and will save or dies, but it's nearly impossible to be damaged by anything that isn't a full caster/hulking hurler (and hulking hurler's can be teleported from).

Again, it's not that hard to optimize a melee character to be dealing hundreds of damage at range by that level with multiple attacks, so even if 80% are blocked the teleporter is still hurting bad.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 12:23 PM
For those who think the 80% cap on Displacer Field is too high, what do you think a better number would be? Keep in mind that you aren't going to get the high numbers until very high level, at which level all casters have some pretty ridiculous abilities.

Restating the suggestion I made, you can help this classes limited offense (sort of; advanced learning gives it a good, if somewhat small, variety of things to do) and absurd defense by changing it to a free action one or two times per round (or an immediate action, which makes it unable to stack with abrupt jaunt) that uses a CL+Cha (on the above I used int without rechecking the classes key stat) check against CL + key mod or the attack roll. Makes it better against mages, less likely to totally shut down everybody without AoEs, and gives you offense, all in one swoop.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 12:29 PM
A decently optimized warblade can easily dish out hundreds of damage with thrown weapons by that level. Reducing it by 80% simply means the d6 teleporter is dead instead of reduced to an indisinguishable pool of blood.

Err... yeah, no. Abrupt jaunt takes care of the hits. It is entirely possible you won't be hit, at all, by that point, at least not enough that you're going to get instagibbed, unless you have literally no other options and the warblade is really optimized. Given .2 damage output, a conservative constitution mod of +6 at level 20, and the assumption the martial character never misses, you'd need a damage output of almost 1000 per round (193 HP, so 965 damage) in order to kill this class with an instagib. While that's possible, it's a very high optimization barrier required to hit somebody who I assume is sitting still, not using their class features and only has a +6 item of Con to their name.



If by "worth speaking of" you mean insta gib then yes I'll give you that.


This class wouldn't be getting instagibbed unless the melee character was incredibly lucky.


Again, it's not that hard to optimize a melee character to be dealing hundreds of damage at range by that level with multiple attacks, so even if 80% are blocked the teleporter is still hurting bad.

This is assuming, of course, that enough of the attacks hit, that the warblade is optimized enough to instagib with only .2 times it's actual strength, that abrupt jaunt doesn't ruin it's day (if they aren't ranged, then the warblade just lost his full attack routine/full round manuevers), and that the teleporter has no other defensive options.

The big one, is, of course, assuming every warblade is so optimized that they can kill somebody with .2 (at best) of their damage output. That's the thing; this takes disproportionate amounts of optimization to kill. With a less optimized warblade, you can probably expect a bit over 200 to 300 per round when dropping high level maneuvers, which means that you won't be killing this class at all (literally; with a 18 starting con, a book of +4 con, and a +6 item of con, 200 damage wouldn't kill this without the defensive abilities), and you don't need anything. Get any of the many defensive options this class could pick up (personal favorite: Item of continuous AMF. You're not affected, everybody else is screwed or at least badly hurt), and then it's back to disparity until the warblade optimizes even further.

Oslecamo
2010-09-19, 12:38 PM
(personal favorite: Item of continuous AMF. You're not affected, everybody else is screwed or at least badly hurt)

Doesn't work at all. AMF doesn't block line of effect. Spells go trough, they just don't affect anything on the AMF itself. Says so on the spell itself.

But if you're not yourself affected by the AMF yourself (kinda pointless if you were), then it means that the are were you stand is AMF free, and so when the empowered maximized fireball explodes at your side, the fire still burns you. It doesn't burn around you, but it burns your flesh as the AMF just supresses the fireball on the affected area, wich your body is exluded off.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 12:41 PM
Doesn't work at all. AMF doesn't block line of effect. Spells go trough, they just don't affect anything on the AMF itself.

But if you're not yourself affected by the AMF yourself (kinda pointless if you were), then it means that when the empowered maximized fireball explodes at your side, the fire still burns you. It doesn't burn around you, but it burns your flesh as the AMF just supresses the fireball on the affected area, wich your body is exluded off.

You don't seem to get it, Oslecamo. This isn't one of those "shaped AMF" things that come up every so often; those are cool but don't work.

This is a flat out AMF you are affecting yourself by. The problem is that this class gets a feature to *automatically ignore* an AMF (or make a CL check, but with the capstone, that is not required) that lets any of its spells or abilities work in it.

That is why it works. You can ignore an AMF entirely, while still being well within it.


Dimensional Freedom (Ex): At 9th level, a teleporter learns to break through magical effects that would confine them. When one of your spells or abilities would otherwise be blocked by some effect which prevents extradimensional movement (such as dimensional anchor or dimensional lock) you may make a caster level check, using your normal caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) spells, against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the creator of the effect. If you succeed, your spell or ability works after all. If you fail, your spell or ability is prevented as normal.


Seeing as an AMF does block teleportation... yeah, fun times. It's like Cheater of Mystra, but free!

Oslecamo
2010-09-19, 12:51 PM
That is why it works. You can ignore an AMF entirely, while still being well within it.

Seeing as an AMF does block teleportation... yeah, fun times. It's like Cheater of Mystra, but free!

Now it's a question of wording. AMF doesn't block, it supresses stuff. Plus Dimensional freedom refers to stuff that specifically block only dimensional travel.

It could be read your way... But I believe it would be a clear twisting of intention.

This is, by your reading then the teleporter can also ignore line of sight, line of effect, lack of spell slots, saves, paralyzis, stun, pun-pun, and any and all effects that could prevent you from teleporting someone.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 12:56 PM
Now it's a question of wording. AMF doesn't block, it supresses stuff. Plus Dimensional freedom refers to stuff that specifically block only dimensional travel.

It could be read your way... But I believe it would be a clear twisting of intention.

This is, by your reading then the teleporter can also ignore line of sight, line of effect, lack of spell slots, saves, paralyzis, stun, pun-pun, and any and all effects that could prevent you from teleporting someone.

It specifically states magical effects, which none of things you listed are, but an AMF is. Also, yes, an AMF does block extradimensional travel; you can't teleport to where an AMF is and wait for it to expire, it just fizzles. You can't teleport out of an AMF and wait around until it expires to leave; you just don't get teleported.

You are also completely ignoring that, with nothing but a +6 item of con, this class has an effective HP of almost 1000 (above 1000 counting the 10 HP from 0 to dead.), That is a serious problem, because even ToB classes, with their very high power floor (relative to many classes) aren't really capable of getting through that without some pretty hardcore optimization.

ocel
2010-09-19, 01:21 PM
why not have the class gain a 5% miss chance instead of 20 or 30 per every 3 or 4 levels?

also the amount of spells the class learns should probably share the same progression of wizard.

also anti magic fields should probably effect it as well.

Oslecamo
2010-09-19, 01:21 PM
It specifically states magical effects, which none of things you listed are, but an AMF is. Also, yes, an AMF does block extradimensional travel; you can't teleport to where an AMF is and wait for it to expire, it just fizzles. You can't teleport out of an AMF and wait around until it expires to leave; you just don't get teleported.

You're telling me that there aren't spells that block line of sight/effect, neither ones that paralyze/stun you? By your reading I hit the teleporter with a hold person, she fails the save and yet still can teleport next turn.

I say it's pretty clear the Dimensional Freedom is clearly intended to just ignore effects that specifically block teleportation, not any and all effect that may stop your spellcasting, even if magic in nature.



You are also completely ignoring that, with nothing but a +6 item of con, this class has an effective HP of almost 1000 (above 1000 counting the 10 HP from 0 to dead.), That is a serious problem, because even ToB classes, with their very high power floor (relative to many classes) aren't really capable of getting through that without some pretty hardcore optimization.

Well who said they have to kill it in one round? It has no self healing, no minions, it can just run away at best, and that counts as victory (and exp) for the other side.

The teleporter isn't a wizard. She can't say "Ah, tomorrow I come back with a new array of spells to f*** you!". If she retreats she's defeated because whatever was her objective wasn't achieved and she can't come back with a super vengeance.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 01:30 PM
You're telling me that there aren't spells that block line of sight/effect, neither ones that paralyze/stun you? By your reading I hit the teleporter with a hold person, she fails the save and yet still can teleport next turn.

I say it's pretty clear the Dimensional Freedom is clearly intended to just ignore effects that specifically block teleportation, not any and all effect that may stop your spellcasting, even if magic in nature.

Then the ability needs to be reworded, which is what I've been saying. At the moment, it is incredibly vague, but an AMF actually does seem to be as close as you can get to the listed dimension lock spells without actually being those spells (or anticipate teleport), since it blocks teleports and magic specifically, not all actions.

EDIT: What I'm saying here is that AMF makes more sense to be gotten around because it actually does specifically block extradimensional travel, and doesn't block actions. Hold Person blocks actions, so you wouldn't be able to make the check while attempting to cast a spell, and stuff that blocks LoS doesn't really block teleportation (you can teleport without LoS or LoE), so.. yeah. Your examples still really aren't panning out.


Well who said they have to kill it in one round? It has no self healing, no minions, it can just run away at best, and that counts as victory (and exp) for the other side.

You did. You have stated, multiple times, that even with the defense, other classes can instagib her... which they can't.


The teleporter isn't a wizard. She can't say "Ah, tomorrow I come back with a new array of spells to f*** you!". If she retreats she's defeated because whatever was her objective wasn't achieved and she can't come back with a super vengeance.

And? This is basically a total non sequitar. The point is a permanent, unstoppable 80% miss chance on all effects is *far* too powerful, defensively. It is unbalanced with the rest of the class, and the rest of the T3 classes; only the T2+ classes really have any way to effectively hurt a teleporter.

The point is basically a class with limited (but still pretty good) offense, good utility, and nigh invulnerable defensive abilities is a rather bad chassis; it's the exact opposite of rocket tag, and poor design for the same reasons; namely, that one side is going to have no options (rocket tag: one side is dead. Stone wall: Defensive side can't hit, dies slowly. Offensive side can't hit, dies slowly. Neither can hit: Boring).

t needs to be redesigned so the class has enough offensive capability to be good for a T3 (it's not bad ATM, but could definitely use a little bit more punch, which my suggested change would do), while not getting a permanent defensive ability that even high level wizards would probably want, along with not having such an *incredibly* high skill floor in terms of defensive abilities; while normally increasing the skill floor is good because it provides more balance between optimizers and nonoptimizers, increasing it as high as this class does means that only optimizers can effectively fight this without the fight rapidly becoming boring.

Saph
2010-09-19, 02:22 PM
I actually spent a little time thinking about whether the teleporter should get to use teleportation through an AMF or not. On the one hand, it's a cool ability, and I like the idea that it can always use its primary function (teleporting things). And it's not as if you run into AMFs very often. On the other hand, the class is already fairly powerful and you could argue that there's no reason that it should get to ignore AMFs when the beguiler and dread necro don't. I'll have to think about it.

I think those of you using the 80% figure are kind of missing the point, though. Most games don't get to the level 17-20 range, and every caster has ridiculous stuff they can do at that level. You need to compare it with what the equivalent classes can do.

In this case, the equivalent classes are the Beguiler and the Dread Necromancer. If you can show me that the teleporter is significantly more powerful than either of those two over a certain level range (pick a 4 level band, say), then I'll agree that it needs nerfing.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 02:27 PM
I actually spent a little time thinking about whether the teleporter should get to use teleportation through an AMF or not. On the one hand, it's a cool ability, and I like the idea that it can always use its primary function (teleporting things). And it's not as if you run into AMFs very often. On the other hand, the class is already fairly powerful and you could argue that there's no reason that it should get to ignore AMFs when the beguiler and dread necro don't. I'll have to think about it.

I think those of you using the 80% figure are kind of missing the point, though. Most games don't get to the level 17-20 range, and every caster has ridiculous stuff they can do at that level. You need to compare it with what the equivalent classes can do.

In this case, the equivalent classes are the Beguiler and the Dread Necromancer. If you can show me that the teleporter is significantly more powerful than either of those two over a certain level range (pick a 4 level band, say), then I'll agree that it needs nerfing.

The point is not power as a whole, so much, but defensive power. This class has more defensive potential than any relevant class, and, furthermore, it has it at any optimization level. Yeah, with massive optimization, the 80%+abrupt jaunt may not save you from a warblade, but that's assuming that this class doesn't use anything but its class features while the warblade is optimized for 1k+ damage per round (and the 1k+ damage per round doesn't even include abrupt jaunt canceling plenty of things). If this class is optimized further, it becomes even more invulnerable.

Also "people don't play at high levels, so my high level abilities can be broken" is not good design philosophy.

Basically, assuming you aren't incredibly optimized, this class will almost *always* win encounters by stonewalling the enemies. Even at high optimization, an 80% miss chance is incredible, but any optimization below that and this class may as well be invulnerable.

EDIT: Also, why does the miss chance even have to scale. It's not like AC, where it becomes less effective. At any given point, a 20% miss chance still means you are only taking 80% of the enemies full damage potential.

Morph Bark
2010-09-19, 02:31 PM
Restating the suggestion I made, you can help this classes limited offense (sort of; advanced learning gives it a good, if somewhat small, variety of things to do) and absurd defense by changing it to a free action one or two times per round (or an immediate action, which makes it unable to stack with abrupt jaunt) that uses a CL+Cha (on the above I used int without rechecking the classes key stat) check against CL + key mod or the attack roll. Makes it better against mages, less likely to totally shut down everybody without AoEs, and gives you offense, all in one swoop.

This sounds like a very good suggestion. If such a thing were done, I could probably convince the guy DMing the next campaign for my group to allow me to play this class. I've never been much one for teleportation, but focusing on it? It would make it an intruiging offer to try that I might not be able to refuse.

Saph
2010-09-19, 02:31 PM
Also "people don't play at high levels, so my high level abilities can be broken" is not good design philosophy.

Since it's not my design philosophy, that doesn't bother me much. Let me restate, in case I was unclear. Every caster has incredibly powerful abilities at high levels. Therefore, saying that a high-level caster ability is incredibly powerful doesn't prove very much. If you want to argue that the overall abilities of this class are too strong, the best way to do it is to compare it with the nearest equivalent classes, e.g. the beguiler or dread necro.


EDIT: Also, why does the miss chance even have to scale. It's not like AC, where it becomes less effective. At any given point, a 20% miss chance still means you are only taking 80% of the enemies full damage potential.

It's to reflect the fact that miss chance spells and effects generally get better as you go up in levels. At low levels, few characters will have more than a 20% miss chance, and most won't even have that. At high levels, it's not uncommon for high-powered characters to have one or two 50% miss chance effects active in all difficult battles.

At the moment I'm considering reducing the miss chance, but I'll wait for more feedback before I do any editing.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 02:37 PM
Since it's not my design philosophy, that doesn't bother me much. Let me restate, in case I was unclear. Every caster has incredibly powerful abilities at high levels. Therefore, saying that a high-level caster ability is incredibly powerful doesn't prove very much. If you want to argue that the overall abilities of this class are too strong, the best way to do it is to compare it with the nearest equivalent classes, e.g. the beguiler or dread necro.

The problem is that *no ability*, at least not without extreme optimization, gives you nearly as much potential for reducing damage taken than an 80% miss chance with no way to bypass it.

That's the point: This has an incredibly low skill ceiling, so it can only really be played with optimized casters and be reasonable, and even against decently optimized martial characters, it can still just ignore them, and that's before even optimizing this class at all.

Also, there is no way to get an uncounterable, unstoppable, uninterruptable 80% miss chance. Mirror Images can be destroyed or true seeing'd (and take an action to put up), other miss chances can be dispelled or countered... this can't.

Also, this is far better than the beguiler, at least; it gets plenty of will SoDs, can pick from the best school in the game in order to get a few options to round out it's arsenal, doesn't get stopped by mind affecting abilities, and, as I've said, has a far better defensive option that requires no optimization to use and doesn't have any kind of counter. Dread Necro... also probably better, but that's a really hard thing to judge. Defensively, it beats a Dread Necro handily, and basically all the ToB classes would get crushed by this, and its utility is much higher than theirs as well.

Saph
2010-09-19, 02:39 PM
The problem is that *no ability*, at least not without extreme optimization, gives you nearly as much potential for reducing damage taken than an 80% miss chance with no way to bypass it.

As I said in the previous edit, I'm thinking of reducing that, but I'll wait for more feedback first. I understand your point.

I'd still be interested in a comparison between this class and the other know-their-whole-spell-list classes (warmage, beguiler, dread necro), as they're the closest model.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 02:44 PM
As I said in the previous edit, I'm thinking of reducing that, but I'll wait for more feedback first. I understand your point.

I'd still be interested in a comparison between this class and the other know-their-whole-spell-list classes (warmage, beguiler, dread necro), as they're the closest model.

As I've said: It has better defensive abilities than the beguiler (since Mirror Image has so many counters), better SoDs than any of them (since it can pick from conjuration), and good utility as well. It also handily beats all the ToB classes, which the other three list casters do not. I could do an in depth comparison, but I really don't feel that should be necessary when we are dealing with a class who reduces any offensive action taken against it to a fifth of its normal power, has access to a wide variety of save or dies, can't be stopped by the few counters that would exist to its powers, can (possibly) go around in an AMF without caring, and actually has a list filled with good amounts of non teleporty utility.

arguskos
2010-09-19, 02:45 PM
Since it's not my design philosophy, that doesn't bother me much. Let me restate, in case I was unclear. Every caster has incredibly powerful abilities at high levels. Therefore, saying that a high-level caster ability is incredibly powerful doesn't prove very much. If you want to argue that the overall abilities of this class are too strong, the best way to do it is to compare it with the nearest equivalent classes, e.g. the beguiler or dread necro.
I believe that what Mils is saying in his own acerbic way is that the Teleporter is NOT balanced aginst the DNecro or the Beguiler. See, the Teleporter has the ability to merely ignore its fellow Tier 3 classes, and it has a defensive ability vastly beyond anything anyone else is capable to producing short of some absurdly high-end optimization. The Beguiler and Dread Necromancer cannot produce such amazing effects with so little effort, and that is the issue. Point one thing out for either class (something out of the box that requires nothing more than leveling up and using one class feature) that is the functional equivalent of a 80% miss chance. Or even a 50% miss chance.


At the moment I'm considering reducing the miss chance, but I'll wait for more feedback before I do any editing.
It needs to come down. The reason why is because it doesn't take any effort, AND comes with good secondary effects. This is not just miss chance, it is miss chance that can ruin entire turns. Let's say you are a level 6 Teleporter fighting against a pouncing Barbarian 6. Barb rages and charges you, getting two attacks (yay pounce). He triggers your miss chance with his first attack, and gets shunted away. His turn is WASTED. He might be in a wall, in the air, behind objects, in the midst of other enemies, who the hell knows? You literally just STOOD THERE, didn't have to take an action, and you completely invalidated someone. This is not balanced.

My suggestion is as follows: the cap is brought down to 50%, and it takes an immediate action to trigger on any attack.

EDIT: Mils beat me to why this isn't balanced against the Beguiler/DNecro (and don't even mention the Warmage, which is not balanced against his fellows, much less this guy). I like it, but the balance is pretty off.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 02:48 PM
I believe that what Mils is saying in his own acerbic way is that the Teleporter is NOT balanced aginst the DNecro or the Beguiler. See, the Teleporter has the ability to merely ignore its fellow Tier 3 classes, and it has a defensive ability vastly beyond anything anyone else is capable to producing short of some absurdly high-end optimization. The Beguiler and Dread Necromancer cannot produce such amazing effects with so little effort, and that is the issue. Point one thing out for either class (something out of the box that requires nothing more than leveling up and using one class feature) that is the functional equivalent of a 80% miss chance. Or even a 50% miss chance.


It needs to come down. The reason why is because it doesn't take any effort, AND comes with good secondary effects. This is not just miss chance, it is miss chance that can ruin entire turns. Let's say you are a level 6 Teleporter fighting against a pouncing Barbarian 6. Barb rages and charges you, getting two attacks (yay pounce). He triggers your miss chance with his first attack, and gets shunted away. His turn is WASTED. He might be in a wall, in the air, behind objects, in the midst of other enemies, who the hell knows? You literally just STOOD THERE, didn't have to take an action, and you completely invalidated someone. This is not balanced.

My suggestion is as follows: the cap is brought down to 50%, and it takes an immediate action to trigger on any attack.

EDIT: Mils beat me to why this isn't balanced against the Beguiler/DNecro (and don't even mention the Warmage, which is not balanced against his fellows, much less this guy). I like it, but the balance is pretty off.

I still prefer my "immediate action to make a check to turn the attack against the attacker" one, since it adds a bit of offensive flair and risk to the class, and offers a more offensive, but less likely to stop the attack, counterpoint to abrupt jaunt.

A flat out 20% miss chance wouldn't be too terribly unbalanced, although I'd really prefer it not randomly teleport the attacker around; that's just a lot of dice for nothing.

Saph
2010-09-19, 02:55 PM
OK, you guys have convinced me that Displacer Field needs to be reduced in power. At the moment there are two possibilities I'm considering to nerf it:

First option: Keep as is, but reduce miss chance, perhaps by making it a 5% increase every three levels instead of 10%. That would make it 20% at level 1, 30% at level 7, 40% at level 13, and 50% at level 19. Capping it at 50% brings it into line with effects such as displacement, blink, total concealment, and incorporeality, all of which also give a 50% chance. Probably also make the effect teleport the teleporter rather than the attacker.

Second option: Use Mils' suggestion of an opposed CL+Cha check against the enemy attack. I'm not sure how this would work against spell attacks, however, and I haven't yet figured out whether this would involve teleporting the attack, the attacker, or the teleporter.

If you've got a preference, chime in. :smallwink:

Magikeeper
2010-09-19, 03:13 PM
I agree that 80% is too much, but I think we should talk about the low-level implications of this.

A 20% miss chance vs all attacks and many spells at level ONE that also nukes melee full attacks at high levels AND is not beaten by true sight (poor displacement). I would expect to see a ton of other class X/Teleporter 1s out there. Very much worth it. You already have the Jaunt as a low-level defensive option (although I would have it be 1+cha times per day [minimum 1]). The class doesn't need this at level 1. Level 4 is a bit early, but is at least out of easy dip range. This ability would be cool to gain at any level, I think 6-7 would be good myself.

Not sure what I would replace the instances of this ability with though.

Saph
2010-09-19, 03:16 PM
I agree that 80% is too much, but I think we should talk about the low-level implications of this.

A 20% miss chance vs all attacks and many spells at level ONE that also nukes melee full attacks at high levels AND is not beaten by true sight (poor displacement). I would expect to see a ton of other class X/Teleporter 1s out there. Very much worth it.

Both of the nerfs I'm considering (see post #30) would stop it from nuking melee full attacks. Any feedback on which you think is better is appreciated.


You already have the Jaunt as a low-level defensive option (although I would have it be 1+cha times per day [minimum 1]).

It's identical to the conjurer ACF from PHB II. I decided that if I was using the same name, I should probably make it as similar as possible.

Zaydos
2010-09-19, 03:32 PM
Teleporting the defender in response to being attacked still ruins a full-attack. And at 1st level a 20% chance of being missed by any targeted attack/spell is much better than a dread necromancer's armor proficiency (especially since they also get mage armor); at 20th level that's still an awesome power.

Morph Bark
2010-09-19, 04:03 PM
OK, you guys have convinced me that Displacer Field needs to be reduced in power. At the moment there are two possibilities I'm considering to nerf it:

First option: Keep as is, but reduce miss chance, perhaps by making it a 5% increase every three levels instead of 10%. That would make it 20% at level 1, 30% at level 7, 40% at level 13, and 50% at level 19. Capping it at 50% brings it into line with effects such as displacement, blink, total concealment, and incorporeality, all of which also give a 50% chance. Probably also make the effect teleport the teleporter rather than the attacker.

Second option: Use Mils' suggestion of an opposed CL+Cha check against the enemy attack. I'm not sure how this would work against spell attacks, however, and I haven't yet figured out whether this would involve teleporting the attack, the attacker, or the teleporter.

If you've got a preference, chime in. :smallwink:

I'd go for the second, since it is a more unique and balanced manner to use it in and you could also potentially apply it to spells that don't require attack rolls.

Epsilon Rose
2010-09-19, 04:22 PM
I agree, the second option seems to be the far more interesting of the two (as nice as flat bonuses are they get kinda boring after a while).

Saph
2010-09-19, 05:21 PM
Okay, so let's have a look at the numbers on the second option (opposed CL check vs attack roll). We'll assume a starting stat of 16 for the teleporter and stat boosts at appropriate levels. Picking a few monsters:

Level 1 monster: Orc. Attack bonus of +4.
Level 1 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +4 (3 Cha, 1 CL).

Level 5 monster: Dire Lion. Attack bonus of +13.
Level 5 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +10 (4 Cha, 6 CL).

Level 10 monster: Fire Giant. Attack bonus of +20.
Level 10 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +19 (6 Cha, 13 CL).

My suspicion is that an attack bonus at any given level is probably going to be higher than a CL + stat check, since it's much easier to buff attack rolls (charging, flanking, spells, etc), so if I make it an opposed check, it'll probably fail more often than it succeeds. Which is a possibility, I guess.

Starbuck_II
2010-09-19, 05:24 PM
Second option: Use Mils' suggestion of an opposed CL+Cha check against the enemy attack. I'm not sure how this would work against spell attacks, however, and I haven't yet figured out whether this would involve teleporting the attack, the attacker, or the teleporter.

If you've got a preference, chime in. :smallwink:

I like the attack being teleported. If attacked in melee, this instead teleports the attacker (chance they might still be in range of course).

Vs Hold person (other targeted spells) this might make a random person affected if teleported ends up in that spot.

Morph Bark
2010-09-19, 05:28 PM
My suspicion is that an attack bonus at any given level is probably going to be higher than a CL + stat check, since it's much easier to buff attack rolls (charging, flanking, spells, etc), so if I make it an opposed check, it'll probably fail more often than it succeeds. Which is a possibility, I guess.

Well, on the plus side, since you are heavily Cha-dependant you will probably try to increase it as much as you want. Caster level boosts can also be easy enough to get if you look for them. Plus, when you compare it against other casters it is 50-50 flat.

Taking average rolls it would be like 50% concealment, but with rolling done instead. Against tactically-working melee fighters it'd be less, but that works in their favour, so it's like a minus for casters against you.

And if it would still turn out a little less than that, there's still big chances of them missing anyway. Especially if you manage to get some luck rerolls.

Saph
2010-09-19, 05:39 PM
Okay, so that would make Displacer Field have two different effects, depending on whether it was used against ranged/spell attacks or against melee attacks. In either case, you'd roll an opposed check. If successful:

Ranged/spell attack: Teleport attack away, redirecting it to new target within a certain distance (haven't decided how far) and within teleporter's line of sight. If the attack used an attack roll, the teleporter's opposed check becomes the new attack roll.

Melee attack: Teleport attacker horizontally away a certain distance (haven't decided how far). Teleporter gets to pick location, if inside solid object, instead appears in nearest square.

What do you think?

Zaydos
2010-09-19, 05:54 PM
Okay, so let's have a look at the numbers on the second option (opposed CL check vs attack roll). We'll assume a starting stat of 16 for the teleporter and stat boosts at appropriate levels. Picking a few monsters:

Level 1 monster: Orc. Attack bonus of +4.
Level 1 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +4 (3 Cha, 1 CL).

Level 5 monster: Dire Lion. Attack bonus of +13.
Level 5 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +10 (4 Cha, 6 CL).

Level 10 monster: Fire Giant. Attack bonus of +20.
Level 10 teleporter: CL + Cha bonus of +19 (6 Cha, 13 CL).

My suspicion is that an attack bonus at any given level is probably going to be higher than a CL + stat check, since it's much easier to buff attack rolls (charging, flanking, spells, etc), so if I make it an opposed check, it'll probably fail more often than it succeeds. Which is a possibility, I guess.

So it gives you a 35% to 50% immunity from Lv 1 on that's still extremely powerful, even if it is an immediate action to use. If it is a free action it ought to fail more often than it succeeds, there's a reason Displacement is considered good and a reason not to ban Illusion.

Saph
2010-09-19, 07:11 PM
Here's my current draft of version 2.0 of Displacer Field. See what you think.

Displacer Field (Su): While teleporters do not learn to use armour as warmages, beguilers, and dread necromancers do, and have only a fraction of the defensive spells of a wizard or sorcerer, they benefit from a powerful defensive teleportation field. When you would otherwise be hit by an attack (including melee and ranged attacks, as well as single-target spells, but not area effects), you may attempt a displacer field check as an immediate action: roll 1d20 + your Charisma modifier + your caster level for Conjuration (teleportation) effects. The DC of this check is equal to the opposing attack roll. If the opposing attack is a spell or effect which does not use an attack roll (e.g. a single-target spell such as hold person) the DC is 11 + the spell or effect's caster level.

If the check succeeds, and the attack is a ranged attack, spell, or effect, you may redirect the attack as you teleport the shot or spell energy elsewhere. Pick a new legal target for the attack to which you have line of sight and line of effect. If the attack used an attack roll, the result of your displacer field check becomes the new attack roll.

Against melee attacks, the displacer field functions differently; in this case, the attacker themselves is teleported up to 30 feet horizontally to an empty square of your choice. You must have line of sight and line of effect to the destination. In this case the attack simply misses.

You decide whether to make your displacer field check after seeing the result of the opposing attack roll, but before damage or saving throws are rolled. If you fail your check, the attack affects you normally. This ability is an immediate action and can be activated at will.

Milskidasith
2010-09-19, 08:42 PM
Looks good. Against opponents with optimized to-hit, it won't do much, but it certainly offers you a lot of anti caster protection, which is pretty good since that also lets you do a lot of spell redirection.

Plus it's incredibly cool.

Epsilon Rose
2010-09-19, 09:33 PM
If I remember the rules for immediate actions properly (and I'm fairly certain I do) I like it.

Saph
2010-09-20, 04:31 AM
OK, version 2.0 is up.

Changes:

-Reworked Displacer Field as above.
-Clarified Dimensional Freedom.
-Moved Improved Abrupt Jaunt to level 13 (reason: dead level).

Leaves a few levels without class features, but they're all ones at which the teleporter gains a new level of spells, so I think this is OK.

Lix Lorn
2010-09-20, 04:43 AM
I really like it. :smallsmile:

Saph
2010-09-20, 08:33 AM
Version 2.1: added abilities for skills, as well as starting age and gold.

Starting to look like the class is pretty much finished. If anyone has any further suggestions, post them below!

Morph Bark
2010-09-20, 08:35 AM
Considering they have Speak Language, why not add Diplomacy to their skills, too? I would definitely like to play one of these as a kind of diplomat that easily brings messages from one kingdom to another, or across planes even.

Saph
2010-09-20, 08:45 AM
That's a possibility, too. I was worried about giving them too many useful skills compared to primary spellcasters like the Sorcerer, but I guess the 2 + Int skill points is probably the real limiting factor anyway. Diplomacy would give them more of an 'emissary' feel.

Rising Phoenix
2010-09-20, 09:28 AM
Much tamer now Saph.

I still think that displacement field coupled with abrunt jaunt is too powerful a defense against melee.

Even though it is cool, I would be still tempted to say that there's no chance of teleportation vs melee attacks and that the attack simply misses if I were to allow this class (and yes I am seriously thinking of allowing this for my next campaign):smallsmile:

Cheers and thanks!

R.P.

Saph
2010-09-20, 09:49 AM
Much tamer now Saph.

I still think that displacement field coupled with abrunt jaunt is too powerful a defense against melee.

Since they're now both immediate actions, you can only use Displacer Field or Abrupt Jaunt in one turn - not both at once.

Displacer field is actually fairly unlikely to work against level-equivalent melee attacks. If you consider a charge from an average 6th-level Barbarian, the Barb's total attack bonus will be 6 (BAB) + 4 (Strength) + 2 (Rage) + 2 (Charge) + 1 (weapon) + 1ish (other bonuses - Weapon Focus, Bless, Haste, etc) = 16 or so. A 6th-level teleporter's displacer field bonus will be 7 (CL) + 4 (Cha) = 11 or so. This difference will increase with level (it's much easier to buff attack bonus than CL) making Displacer Field risky.

Abrupt Jaunt, on the other hand, is very effective against melee, but doesn't really do anything against spells. So out of the two defensive abilities, Abrupt Jaunt is better against melee attacks, while Displacer Field is better against spell attacks.

In any case, glad you like it!

DracoDei
2010-09-20, 03:30 PM
Having Mage Armor, but not Entropic Shield seems off for this class. Mage Armor in this case would seem to mean (if applying Occam's Razor) teleporting in planes of pure force from... the elemental plane of force? Which I have never heard of existing in any D&D cosmology?
Entropic Shield OTOH implies bending space in weird ways that make projectiles get a bit hard to aim, or simply having them teleport away a few feet out...
Now you COULD fluff Mage Armor as similar space-warping... but it doesn't seem the most obvious thing.

EDIT: For posterity, I will link anyone looking for a non-caster class similar to this one to HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6018203&postcount=5).

Saph
2010-09-20, 03:51 PM
The thing is that Entropic Shield only works on ranged attacks and has a very short duration, which is why pretty much no-one uses it. I agree that Mage Armour doesn't exactly fit the fluff, but I prefer it to giving them an armour proficiency. I might just leave Mage Armour as is instead of changing its type.

ocel
2010-09-20, 05:57 PM
looks like the class improved a bit, would like to see more teleporter mishaps through.

Milskidasith
2010-09-20, 08:08 PM
looks like the class improved a bit, would like to see more teleporter mishaps through.

Seeing as that's NPC only, and screwing over PCs for using their class features is, quite possibly, the most awful design choice I can think of (in D&D 3.5e, anyway), I don't really think it needs to be expanded. At the moment, this class actually looks... very, very good.

I need to get a seal of approval image I can post, because, since the 80% miss chance was sorted out, I'm honestly out of any real criticism for this.

ocel
2010-09-20, 08:13 PM
Seeing as that's NPC only, and screwing over PCs for using their class features is, quite possibly, the most awful design choice I can think of (in D&D 3.5e, anyway), I don't really think it needs to be expanded. At the moment, this class actually looks... very, very good.

I need to get a seal of approval image I can post, because, since the 80% miss chance was sorted out, I'm honestly out of any real criticism for this.

if there were more teleport related spells it would be an interesting variant caster class, like the summoner in pathfinder advanced; only it makes more sense fluff wise.

Milskidasith
2010-09-20, 08:23 PM
if there were more teleport related spells it would be an interesting variant caster class, like the summoner in pathfinder advanced; only it makes more sense fluff wise.

There are plenty of teleportation spells; this class has a pretty full spell list.

ocel
2010-09-20, 08:26 PM
There are plenty of teleportation spells; this class has a pretty full spell list.

what would you include?

Milskidasith
2010-09-20, 08:32 PM
what would you include?

You don't seem to be understanding the point I am making: This class is, at the moment, balanced for where it is aimed at.

The only thing I may want to add is Wish, but only for the "teleport anybody from anywhere to anywhere else" ability.

ocel
2010-09-20, 08:49 PM
You don't seem to be understanding the point I am making: This class is, at the moment, balanced for where it is aimed at.

The only thing I may want to add is Wish, but only for the "teleport anybody from anywhere to anywhere else" ability.

sounds good, what tier would this class be? in the 3 or 2 range?

DracoDei
2010-09-20, 09:52 PM
The thing is that Entropic Shield only works on ranged attacks and has a very short duration, which is why pretty much no-one uses it. I agree that Mage Armour doesn't exactly fit the fluff, but I prefer it to giving them an armour proficiency. I might just leave Mage Armour as is instead of changing its type.
Yeah, I was more TRYING to say to add Entropic Shield than to drop Mage Armor actually.

Epsilon Rose
2010-09-20, 11:40 PM
I'm just musing but might it be interesting to add something like precipitate breach?

Morph Bark
2010-09-21, 03:30 AM
I need to get a seal of approval image I can post, because, since the 80% miss chance was sorted out, I'm honestly out of any real criticism for this.

http://www.lolblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/seal.jpg

Hmmm?

Saph
2010-09-21, 05:42 AM
Seeing as that's NPC only, and screwing over PCs for using their class features is, quite possibly, the most awful design choice I can think of (in D&D 3.5e, anyway), I don't really think it needs to be expanded. At the moment, this class actually looks... very, very good.

I need to get a seal of approval image I can post, because, since the 80% miss chance was sorted out, I'm honestly out of any real criticism for this.

Glad you like it. :)


I'm just musing but might it be interesting to add something like precipitate breach?

Not familiar with that one. Is it a spell?

Version 2.2 changes:

-Added Diplomacy to skill list.
-Removed the spell school change to Mage Armour and Greater Mage Armour.

Had a re-read of Entropic Shield and while I can see how it could be interpreted to fit, it's not an obvious one, and I'm not sure if it's useful enough to be worth it. Wish is a bit too powerful and universal (since it's effectively a do-anything spell, and the planar travel option of Gate is far better than the 5,000 XP Wish travel effect).

Milskidasith
2010-09-21, 06:35 AM
Glad you like it. :)



Not familiar with that one. Is it a spell?

Version 2.2 changes:

-Added Diplomacy to skill list.
-Removed the spell school change to Mage Armour and Greater Mage Armour.

Had a re-read of Entropic Shield and while I can see how it could be interpreted to fit, it's not an obvious one, and I'm not sure if it's useful enough to be worth it. Wish is a bit too powerful and universal (since it's effectively a do-anything spell, and the planar travel option of Gate is far better than the 5,000 XP Wish travel effect).

The planar travel option of gate doesn't have the ability of teleporting anybody you desire across multiple planes to you and/or into the sun.

Saph
2010-09-21, 06:40 AM
The planar travel option of gate doesn't have the ability of teleporting anybody you desire across multiple planes to you and/or into the sun.

Okay, checked Wish and it's definitely more powerful. The question is whether it's worth adding to the spell list just for the sake of the traveller effect - that 5,000 XP cost is a killer.

Oh, and I added Tactical Teleportation to the spell list. I've tried to find every teleportation spell in core, SpC, PHB II, and C.Mage, but if anyone can spot one I've missed, give me a shout.

ocel
2010-09-21, 01:17 PM
Oh, and I added Tactical Teleportation to the spell list. I've tried to find every teleportation spell in core, SpC, PHB II, and C.Mage, but if anyone can spot one I've missed, give me a shout.

Well, if we include some of the homebrewed spells of this board, we could increase the number present, here is what I know thus far:


On a related note why is summon monster excluded ?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5725988
Wandering City

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4673819
Leomund’s Vanishing Pocket

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43975
Teleportation Tracer

Teleportation Tracer, Greater

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6565383#post6565383
Quick Jump

Split

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165632
Random Hop

Forgot the address for these two, but will look for them at a later time.

Chain Jaunt
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60ft+10ft per level
Target: Self only
Duration: 10 Rounds+1/2 levels
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Chain Jaunt gives the caster the ability to teleport at will to any point within his line of sight and within range as a move action for the stated duration. The target square may not be occupied unless you can fit in the square with whatever is occupying it. You need a free hand to make a small gesture for the teleportation.

Greater Chain Jaunt
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60ft+10ft per level
Target: Self only
Duration: 10 minutes+1/2 levels
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
As Chain Jaunt except as indicated here.

Saph
2010-09-21, 04:46 PM
On a related note why is summon monster excluded ?

Summoning is just too big a feature to fit in without drastically increasing the teleporter's power level; it would be like giving them the polymorph line, or healing spells. Also, while summoning sort of fits the teleporter's flavour, there's a significant difference between moving a creature and compelling it to follow your orders. Honestly, you could make a whole class based just around summoning creatures (and Pathfinder has one already).

Epsilon Rose
2010-09-21, 04:47 PM
Not familiar with that one. Is it a spell?


Heh sorry about that Precipitate Breach (and Precipitate Complete Breach) is a spell from the Planar Handbook on pg 103. It creates a minor planar breach (the rules for which can be found on pg 151).

ocel
2010-09-21, 05:33 PM
Summoning is just too big a feature to fit in without drastically increasing the teleporter's power level; it would be like giving them the polymorph line, or healing spells. Also, while summoning sort of fits the teleporter's flavour, there's a significant difference between moving a creature and compelling it to follow your orders. Honestly, you could make a whole class based just around summoning creatures (and Pathfinder has one already).

hmm, good point, well please tell me if my latest suggestions,the links, were of some assistance, at your convenience,

Saph
2010-09-22, 05:45 AM
hmm, good point, well please tell me if my latest suggestions,the links, were of some assistance, at your convenience,

They were useful, but I decided in the end to limit the number of sources the class drew from. The idea is that someone can look up the class on this page and use it without needing to link to any other sources as well; as things are it references only three non-core books, which hopefully is a small enough number to be manageable.

The Planar Breach was interesting, but I figured that since the spells weren't reprinted in the Spell Compendium, I'd leave them be. Decided to add Wish in the end, though, more for completeness than because I thought there's much change of it being used.

Looks like the class is finished, apart from any other last corrections! Thanks to everyone who's submitted feedback.

Version 2.3 changes:

-Added Wish to spell list.
-Various minor rewordings and rewrites.

DracoDei
2010-09-22, 11:28 AM
People without those books don't have to cast those spells.

Also, I would CONSIDER making a Teleporter-only spell that duplicated the effects of Wish, but only for Teleportation, and has a lower XP cost (2,500? 1,000?).

DireSockPuppet
2010-09-22, 11:50 AM
What worries me is that the Displacement is quite complex considering how often it is used. Rolling what is essentially an extra save for every attack would slow combat down a fair bit, which could be really irritating. I can see other players getting quite annoyed with the Teleporter.

ocel
2010-09-22, 11:51 AM
I think the 20th ability,Dimensional Mastery, needs to be toned down, since automatically succeeding every spellcheck regardless of SR, is pretty much a gamebreaker, but then again, so is everything else at that level...

I like the idea of advanced learning through; good call on that choice, it gives the class some variety not sure if it makes it a tirer 1, but i'm pretty certain its roughly a 2.

Milskidasith
2010-09-22, 01:37 PM
I think the 20th ability,Dimensional Mastery, needs to be toned down, since automatically succeeding every spellcheck regardless of SR, is pretty much a gamebreaker, but then again, so is everything else at that level...

I like the idea of advanced learning through; good call on that choice, it gives the class some variety not sure if it makes it a tirer 1, but i'm pretty certain its roughly a 2.

No, it's not. It's a tier 3 class. It has good defensive abilities, but basically all of its offense (besides touch attack will SoDs) comes from advanced learning, so it doesn't have the versatility of a T2 or a T1. If it were that high on the tiers, it would be a flaw because it wasn't intended to be that strong.

Also, automatically succeeding SR checks isn't much, at all. It's already easy enough to do, and since this class has a built in +5 caster level before items, you were probably doing it anyway.

Morph Bark
2010-09-22, 03:57 PM
What worries me is that the Displacement is quite complex considering how often it is used. Rolling what is essentially an extra save for every attack would slow combat down a fair bit, which could be really irritating. I can see other players getting quite annoyed with the Teleporter.

Remember that it requires an immediate action, so you can only do it once per turn.

You also cannot use it if you used a Quickened spell on your turn in the same round, because a Quickened spell consumes your swift action and if you use your swift action you lose your immediate action for that turn.

Saph
2010-09-22, 06:16 PM
What worries me is that the Displacement is quite complex considering how often it is used. Rolling what is essentially an extra save for every attack would slow combat down a fair bit, which could be really irritating.

You can only use one immediate/swift action per turn, so you can use Displacer Field once per turn, rather than once per attack. The idea is that you'd write down your Displacer Field bonus somewhere obvious on your character sheet. So the sequence would be:

DM: tells you enemy attacks with a roll of X
You: decide to use Displacer Field, look at number on top of character sheet, roll d20.
Result: succeed = redirect, fail = nothing.

Shouldn't take more than a few seconds if you're organised. I agree that having players able to do reactions to attacks does slow combat down a little, but on the whole I think giving players access to counters and reactions is a good thing.


I think the 20th ability,Dimensional Mastery, needs to be toned down, since automatically succeeding every spellcheck regardless of SR, is pretty much a gamebreaker, but then again, so is everything else at that

The long-range teleport spells are generally touch spells that allow SR. This means that to pull them off on an enemy, you need to:

1. Get to touch range
2. Succeed on touch attack
3. Overcome SR
4. Have enemy fail Will save

That's a lot of chances for something to go wrong. Even automatically overcoming SR, that still leaves stages 1, 2, and 4, which won't come off all that often.

Finally, bear in mind that at level 20, almost all dangerous enemies can teleport too. This means that if you teleport a monster, it's quite likely to teleport straight back.


No, it's not. It's a tier 3 class. It has good defensive abilities, but basically all of its offense (besides touch attack will SoDs) comes from advanced learning, so it doesn't have the versatility of a T2 or a T1. If it were that high on the tiers, it would be a flaw because it wasn't intended to be that strong.

That's the plan. The teleporter does have an edge over the Beguiler or Dread Necro in that Conjuration is one of the two power schools, but it's still going to have nowhere near the versatility of a wizard or sorcerer.

Saph
2011-03-21, 12:50 PM
New Teleporter Feats - PEACH!


I've been really encouraged by all the people supporting this class in the Homebrew Galleries nomination page, and since a couple of my players have been planning to try it out in a campaign, I thought I'd add some new material. One slight problem with the class as it stands is that there are very few feats that really work with it except for the obvious-but-boring Spell Focus (Conjuration). So here's the first draft of a few teleporter-only feats. Tell me if you think any are too strong, weak, or otherwise need improvement!

Notes in spoilers.


Guardian Displacer Field

You can extend the protection of your displacer field to nearby allies.

Prerequisite: Displacer field class feature.
Benefit: You can use your displacer field when another creature is targeted by an attack. The targeted creature must be within 30 feet and within line of sight and line of effect, and you must be aware of the attack and make a displacer field check as normal. If your check succeeds, your displacer field functions exactly as if you had been the one targeted.
Normal: Your displacer field only works on attacks which target you.

A basic 'party protection' ability. I kind of like it since you have to spend your immediate action for the round, meaning you'll be lowering your own defences in the process.
Area Displacer Field

Your displacer field can redirect area effects that target you.

Prerequisite: Displacer field class feature.
Benefit: You can use your displacer field when you are targeted by a spell or effect with a burst or spread area. You must be within the area which the burst or spread would affect, and you must be aware of the attack and make a displacer field check as normal. If your check succeeds, you may choose a new point of origin for the burst or spread to which you have line of sight and line of effect. The new point of origin must be a target which the creator of the effect could legally have chosen.
Normal: Your displacer field does not function against area attacks.
Special: If you also have the Guardian Displacer Field feat, you can use this ability even if you are not within the burst or spread's area, so long as the point of origin for the burst or spread is within 30 feet and within line of sight and line of effect.

I think Burst and Spread covers everything that you'd expect this kind of thing to cover. Note that it won't work on stuff like Blasphemy which has to be centred on the caster.
Rapid Displacer Field

You can use your displacer field with lightning speed.

Prerequisites: Displacer field class feature, character level 15th or higher.
Benefit: Once per round, you can activate your displacer field as a free action instead of an immediate action. You must still be aware of the attack. This feat 'refreshes' at the same time that your immediate actions do, i.e. at the end of your turn.
Normal: Activating your displacer field is always an immediate action.

This is effectively the teleporter version of the Stance of Clarity Diamond Mind stance from Tome of Battle, and has a similar level restriction. Still worried it might be too powerful, though - action economy is a bit deal.
Greater Abrupt Jaunt

The range and precision of your Abrupt Jaunt ability improves.

Prerequisite: Abrupt Jaunt class feature.
Benefit: When you use Abrupt Jaunt, you may teleport anywhere between 5 and 20 feet.
Normal: Abrupt Jaunt teleports you 10 feet.

Not flashy, but useful. A lot of attack spells have a radius of 20 feet and a reach of 15 feet or more isn't uncommon at higher levels.
Guardian Abrupt Jaunt

You can snatch allies out of danger with a quick teleport.

Prerequisite: Abrupt Jaunt class feature.
Benefit: You may use Abrupt Jaunt to teleport another willing creature instead of yourself. The creature must be within 30 feet and within line of sight and line of effect.
Normal: Abrupt Jaunt teleports only yourself.

The equivalent of Guardian Displacer Field. Great for saving allies, but you'll run out of uses fast until you hit level 13.

Cieyrin
2011-03-22, 11:01 PM
This is certainly neat. I kinda would like to see perhaps instead of Rapid Displacer something that'd change it to using AoOs, so you can have defensive chaos all over the place, especially with Guardian Displacer Field. Maybe a bit powerful but it opens up options so you can save your immediates to Jaunt out of Dodge. :smallwink:

Saph
2011-03-24, 03:33 PM
That could be kind of entertaining actually - have some teleport effect that triggers off AoOs. Wouldn't work once the enemy knew about it, but it would be a good way of surprising enemies who assumed that the caster isn't going to threaten.

Cyspero
2011-09-06, 11:58 PM
" New Spell: Rocks Fall
Rocks Fall
Conjuration (teleportation)
Level: Teleporter 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: 5-foot radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: No

This spell teleports a collection of objects from somewhere in the multiverse into the air directly above the target. The objects immediately fall to the ground with a crash, dealing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all creatures and unattended objects within the target area. The objects then teleport back to their place of origin.

The exact composition of the objects is chosen by the caster at the time of casting, and makes no difference to the effect of the spell. By default, the spell creates rocks, but can also be used to drop stones, logs, bricks, furniture, pianos, anvils, or any other inanimate object the caster can think of. "

This looks like a lot of fun, mechanically and for RP. "Suddenly 42 potted petunias appear in the sky, crashing down onto the Kobolds." I have a Summoner who has already taken Spell Focus (conjuration) to eventually qualify for augmented summoning and I'm thinking about asking my DM if I can research this spell. I've found your Summoner guide really helpful, how do you think Rocks Fall would compare to the other level two spells for summoners? I know their spell slots are limited, do you think this would be a good fit?

Cieyrin
2011-09-07, 10:30 AM
" New Spell: Rocks Fall
Rocks Fall
Conjuration (teleportation)
Level: Teleporter 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: 5-foot radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: No

This spell teleports a collection of objects from somewhere in the multiverse into the air directly above the target. The objects immediately fall to the ground with a crash, dealing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all creatures and unattended objects within the target area. The objects then teleport back to their place of origin.

The exact composition of the objects is chosen by the caster at the time of casting, and makes no difference to the effect of the spell. By default, the spell creates rocks, but can also be used to drop stones, logs, bricks, furniture, pianos, anvils, or any other inanimate object the caster can think of. "

This looks like a lot of fun, mechanically and for RP. "Suddenly 42 potted petunias appear in the sky, crashing down onto the Kobolds." I have a Summoner who has already taken Spell Focus (conjuration) to eventually qualify for augmented summoning and I'm thinking about asking my DM if I can research this spell. I've found your Summoner guide really helpful, how do you think Rocks Fall would compare to the other level two spells for summoners? I know their spell slots are limited, do you think this would be a good fit?

There's a 1st level spell, 0th for Teleporters, that you may want to compare this to: Hail of Stone from Spell Compendium. Same range, better area (5' rad cylinder that's 40' high), no save. It only does a d4 per level, cap at 5d4, is a 1 round to cast and costs 5 gp to cast each time, so we could perhaps improve on that to get to where you want this spell to be. It does damage comparable to a fireball in a smaller radius, which seems much for a 2nd level spell, when the 2nd level area spell, Snowball Swarm, does 2d6 + 1d6/2 CL after 3rd, cap 5d6 in a 10' radius and has SR. Your spell also does non-energy damage, so there's that to consider as well, considering spells usually deal with energy resistance and not DR.

What I'd recommend to make this, essentially Greater Hail of Stone, in line with existing spells would be to expand the radius from Hail of Stone's to Snowball Swarms, meaning a 10' cylinder, 60' high, deal 1d4 bludgeoning/CL, have no save or SR and keep it at standard action casting. Spell-level should be 2nd level for Sor/Wiz and 1st for Teleporters. Let me run a little math to see how this new version compares damage wise.

{table=head]CL|Snowball Swarm|Greater Hail of Stone|Fireball
3|2d6/7 avg|3d4/7.5 avg|3d6/10.5 avg
4|2d6/7 avg|4d4/10 avg|4d6/14 avg
5|3d6/10.5 avg|5d4/12.5 avg|5d6/17.5 avg
6|3d6/10.5 avg|6d4/15 avg|6d6/21 avg
7|4d6/14 avg|7d4/17.5 avg|7d6/24.5 avg
8|4d6/14 avg|8d4/20 avg|8d6/28 avg
9|5d6/17.5 avg|9d4/22.5 avg|9d6/31.5 avg
10|5d6/17.5 avg|10d4/25 avg|10d6/35 damage[/table]

Hmm, damage might still be a bit strong for 2nd level...Maybe it doesn't matter after 7th, when they start to seriously diverge damage-wise and 3rd and 4th level spells are being thrown about anyways. Well, whatevs, See what you think.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Dralnu
2011-09-07, 02:55 PM
Very cool class, but the spell list is so wonky. Hail of Stone as a 0th level spell? Seriously?

EDIT:

The teleporter is designed to be on the power level of the Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warblade, Swordsage, or Crusader; very good at one thing, and moderately good at several others. With the Advanced Learning feature and Use Magic Device skill, a teleporter should be able to hold their own in even a high-power party.

Levels 1-5 is pretty tame, as once per round you can redirect an attack against you to anyone else very easily, or if you want an auto-success then you can simply say no to it with abrupt jaunt. But that's not so bad, because why would enemies attack you? Oh right, Hail of Stone, a really good 2nd lvl AOE spell, is offered at 0th level. Still relatively fine.

Then starting at level 6 you have an AOE Save-or-Die (Dimension Door, Will save or take 68d6 at level 6??). Okay, now it's not fine.

There's also Advanced Learning and Use Magic Device (why does the class have this, by the way?) which we all know what that opens up.

Honestly the rest of it is pretty tame if redundant. But since you've already got AOE SoD's and an inability to be targeted outside of AOE attacks, your bases are pretty much covered. Against anything with flight, you can call it SoG, "Save or Gone," because you've transported them so far away that they no longer contribute to the fight for more than enough rounds, if they even return to the fight at all. The only stuff that really denies your trick are magic immune creatures or creatures with teleports of their own.

All in all I'd put it in the upper edge of tier 3, maybe bottom tier 2 depending on if you can pick up any game-breaking conjuration spells with Advanced Learning. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer still work fine, but ToB characters are only useful when your AOE SoD trick isn't applicable, so teleport them in when you face a magic-immune golem. Or just teleport past the golem.

I really like the idea of a battlefield controller who is teleporting all over the place, teleporting allies, and teleporting enemies. Unfortunately, such options are simply subpar to some of the other broken abilities that the class currently has.

Qwertystop
2011-09-10, 08:29 PM
Looks pretty cool.

To the people who are talking about all the crazy stuff this can do, don't forget: Max falling damage is 20d6. No 68d6 as mentioned by Dralnu. May not be much of a limiter, but is still theoretically survivable, and stops it from being a guaranteed kill on a failed save later on.

For balance, I'd say maybe only some of the teleportation spells should be lower level, and others should stay the same. That way, you can limit the more powerful ones.

Cieyrin
2011-09-10, 10:11 PM
Plus, Hail of Stone is 1st level normally and hardly a broken spell. Oh noes, 5d4 damage with no save at 5th level? The 5 gp of jade each casting requires adds up rather quickly to boot.

I don't see what's broken by Advanced Learning that the other super specialized arcane types don't get. It's a method to expand and customize, what's wrong with that? And UMD? So what? Artificers still do it better, since they can make the custom toys to use it properly and have infusions to juryrig what they don't. They're still not nudging in on the Sorcerer's turf in scales of power.

Dralnu
2011-09-11, 02:30 AM
My mistake, I forgot about the falling damage cap. I'd say it's still OP for the mid levels and becomes fine at the higher ones (though teleporting your opponents miles away might as well be SoD in terms of gameplay).

Hail of Stone is very good as a 1st level spell. AOE no save is really good. Giving it away as a cantrip is pretty silly since it's already good at 1st.

Red Moldova
2014-02-24, 06:28 AM
Someone just linked to this in a recruitment thread, Displacer field is overpowered, severely overpowered. Immediate Action At Will to Negate both Attacks and Single Target Spells. How is Abrubt Jaunt limited to a number of times per day and Displacer Field not? The Class more or less makes a lot of sense other than that one ability. It's balanced fairly well and I like the retooling of different spells to be Conjuration (Teleportation) school.

Limit Displacer field to a limited number of uses at first level and then scale it up later, even make it at-will later like Abrupt Jaunt. The way it is there's way too much potential for abuse with a 1 level dip.

Falcon777
2014-02-24, 09:47 AM
The first time I got approved to use this class in a game (the thread died before the game even started) the dm pmed me about this problem where he worked out a solution.

Unfortunately I deleted that pm because the game died before it even started. However, the general gist of it was that displacer field would not be at will at first. Instead, it would be something to the effect of 2 or 3 times a day plus CHA modifier plus 1/4 level until level 13 where it became at will (like abrupt jaunt).

He also felt that it was too strong for the displacer field to be able to take a melee attacker and move them away from the teleporter 30'. So he also had a scale where displacer field would start out at 10' then slowly move up to 30'...or something like that. I think if those two things were implemented it might make it a little bit more balanced.

Do remember, however, that a single use of displacer field only negates a single action and as every use requires an immediate action it can only be done once in a round. Just food for thought.