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Ravens_Wing
2010-09-22, 12:18 PM
I have been looking at Existing Magical Items and the Building of new ones using the rules in the DMG.

I have noticed several Items that while using them they allow the user to be treated as though they have a specific feat, even if that character doesnít have the prerequisites for that feat.

Here is one to show you what I mean:
Rapier of Disarming

When used to attack a foe, a rapier of disarming acts as a +2 rapier. When used to disarm an opponent, however , this weapon provides its wielder with an additional +4 insight bonus on the roll. The wielder of a rapier of disarming gains the use of the Improved Disarm feat, even if she doesnít meet the prerequisites for it.
Moderate transmutation; CL 12th Combat Experience, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Improved Disarm; Price 32320 gp; Weight: 3lb.

*as seen on pg 56 of Dragon #322
**Note I have seen other items this is just one that I had handy to show you.

Now I have looked and I cant seem to find a cost for how one would make new items with this kind of power does any one know where the rules for something like this might be?

I have looked in the DMG and the Magic Item Compendium but havenít seen anything. So if it is in one of these books Page # would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Greenish
2010-09-22, 12:22 PM
I'm afraid you'll have to eyeball them. Not all feats are equal, and rules for prizing custom magic items (which don't speak about feats), well, let us say they've raised quite a discussion.

Doug Lampert
2010-09-22, 12:25 PM
I'm afraid you'll have to eyeball them. Not all feats are equal, and rules for prizing custom magic items (which don't speak about feats), well, let us say they've raised quite a discussion.

3.0 the typical cost was 4,000 GP IIRC.
3.5 the typical cost is 5,000 GP IIRC.

But most of the feats granted are pretty crappy, things like +2/+2 skill bonuses.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-22, 12:32 PM
I was afraid of the having to Eyeball it option. I had hoped that there was a formula that could be used. something incuding what kind of bonus that was given and the # of prerequisite feats that you are missing to get it...

Greenish
2010-09-22, 12:32 PM
3.0 the typical cost was 4,000 GP IIRC.
3.5 the typical cost is 5,000 GP IIRC.

But most of the feats granted are pretty crappy, things like +2/+2 skill bonuses.I don't know how good a guideline that is. For example, Quick Draw is 300 gp, Iron Will 3,000 gp, TWF or ITWF 18,000 gp, and so forth, just in official sources.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-22, 12:33 PM
Where are you pulling these costs from?

Greenish
2010-09-22, 12:37 PM
Where are you pulling these costs from?
Quick Draw - Least Crystal of Return (MIC)
Iron Will - Otyugh Hole (wondrous location, CScoundrel)
TWF/ITWF - Gloves of the Balanced Hand (Magic of FaerŻn, or MIC for 8,000 gp, I notice.)

aeauseth
2010-09-22, 12:52 PM
Magic Items with Feats are discussed in the Arms & Armor book. This is a 3.0 book. I recall the price guidelines were 5-10k per feat + 5k per prereq. Pricing normal magic items is pretty difficult, feats is even more fraught with problems.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-22, 01:06 PM
I dont think I have That Arms and Armor Book... Who is it published by? Also are you shure of those costs?

aeauseth
2010-09-22, 01:36 PM
Went back to my library and I found it in the "Arms & Equipment Guide" sidebar on pg128. Published by WoTC. I believe it is out of print, but should be available at Amazon or other used book store. I've use it for reference, mostly for flavor and unique weapons. I like giving my vilians a unique weapon. :smallcool: Also has druidy materials for armors and such.

Exceprt:


Magic Items that Grant Feats: Pricing feats for magic items is a very fuzzy area. If a feat is purely mechanical, such as Great Fortitude, default the rules in Ihe DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide with an adjustment for the fact that the bonus has no type. For instance, the belt of endurance grants Great Fortitude, which adds a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves. A +2 resistance bonus on all saves would cost 4,000 gp. It shouldn't be more or as economical to buy bonuses to all saves separately, so a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves alone should cost 2,000 gp. If the bonus has no type assigned to it, you could double or even triple that. Metamagic feats should adjust the level of the spells to which they apply, and thus change the price. While this is still a matter of judgment, consider increasing all the spell levels by +1 if the item affects spells of 0-3rd level, by +2 if the item affects spells of 0-6th level, and by +4 if the item affects spells of any level. A general guideline for other kinds of feats is that they cost 10,000 gp, plus another 5,000 gp to 10,000 gp per prerequisite.

These are 3.0 guidelines and as I stated earlier pricing magic accurately items is difficult to do.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-22, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the Post aeauseth That helps me a fair amount I now have better idea what i am getting myself into here.

Curmudgeon
2010-09-22, 05:18 PM
I don't know how good a guideline that is. For example, Quick Draw is 300 gp, Iron Will 3,000 gp, TWF or ITWF 18,000 gp, and so forth, just in official sources.
I've assembled a list where you can determine the cost of feats in official magic items here (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/feats.html).

Quick Draw, the feat, is worth quite a bit more than 300 gp. The Least Crystal of Return can only affect one weapon at a time, and can only be used with a weapon that's of at least masterwork quality. If you're a TWF dagger thrower you might need dozens of these, with +600 gp each (+300 per masterwork weapon, +300 each crystal). 602 gp each dagger instead of 2 gp with Quick Draw is a pretty steep price increase.

The Otyugh Hole location requires significant skill checks plus a week of your time, and the benefit can disappear forever at the DM's will, simply because of the word of this location spreading. So while there's a stated gp value, that isn't guaranteed to give you the feat on an ongoing basis.

Jacque
2010-09-22, 05:46 PM
We use the following rules for magic items granting feats. Note that some feats of course are better than others, so these rules are just guidelines:

Enchantments that Mimic Feats

You must have the feat in your sheet (and not added from a magic item) in order to apply a it to a magic item.

Use the following formula to determin the price of adding the power of a feat to a magic item: (Number of prerequisites +1) squared, x 1000 gp.

Eg: Spell penetration has no prerequisites ((0 + 1) x 1 x 1000 = 1000 gp). Greater weapon focus has three prerequisites (proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 8th. (3 + 1) x 4 x 1000 = 16000 gp)

Epic feats use the same formula, multiplying the result by x10, and adding a further 200,000gp.

Hawriel
2010-09-22, 08:11 PM
just find a magical enchantment or an item that does somthing similar and estimate from that. Iron will for example is a +2 save to will tests. There are rules for adding bonuses to saves use them.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-23, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the input Guys! The specific feat that i was thinking of using was one from pathfinder.

Greater Disarm.
It gives an additional +2 to disarm that stacks with the bonus from improved disarm. It also makes it so that when you disarm an opponent their wepon lands 15 feet away in a randon direction as opposed to at their feet.

I would be placing it on a weapon so that only when using that weapon do you get the benifit from the feat. something like the example I used at the begining. The Rapier of Disarming...

But this has been something I have looked at before and have wanted to figure out. So all of this input is great!

bartman
2010-09-23, 12:25 PM
Think about the mobility feat, and the mobility enhancement to armor. It is a +1 bonus, and is a feat that has 1 prereq. Greater Disarm has 2 prereq's, so I would say that is should be at leat a +2 bonus, maybe if you already have the 2 prereq feats then make it a +1

Tyger
2010-09-23, 12:41 PM
Thanks for the input Guys! The specific feat that i was thinking of using was one from pathfinder.

Greater Disarm.
It gives an additional +2 to disarm that stacks with the bonus from improved disarm. It also makes it so that when you disarm an opponent their wepon lands 15 feet away in a randon direction as opposed to at their feet.

I would be placing it on a weapon so that only when using that weapon do you get the benifit from the feat. something like the example I used at the begining. The Rapier of Disarming...

But this has been something I have looked at before and have wanted to figure out. So all of this input is great!

Well, for comparison on that, the Disarming property (MiC, page 32) grants +2 to Disarm attempts, and makes it so you can't be disarmed of that weapon. Its a +2 enchantment. Seeing as how that only works with that weapon, and has to be applied to an existing weapon, that means its worth a minimum of 16K GP. Which, for the record, is outrageously expensive and I can't see anyone EVER actually paying good gold for that enhancement.

That's why "eyeballing" is so darned hard - you have multiple sources all giving you different ideas of cost.

Personally, if it was specific to the weapon, I'd just tell the player to get the Disarming enchantment. Granted, at my table, that would be a flat 2-4K price, rather than a + enhancement. After all, a Locked Gauntlet gives you the "hard (though not impossible) to disarm me" part, and the rest is a +2 bonus is a situational manner... that's not worth an enhancement to me.

Ravens_Wing
2010-09-23, 12:45 PM
Yeah I Have been avoiding just putting a +1 or +2 bonus for a feat as some feats dont give you all that much and a +1 can mean a LOT of gold if you already have say a item that is magicly enhanced. also that bonus system only works for wepons and armour, It isnt used for non combative magical items.



Yeah i saw the Disarming quality in the MIC and in my oppinion that has to be a typo... +2 bonus cost for a +2 to disarm only I mean yes you cant be disarmed but you would be better off just gettting a +2 weapon cause then you would have the +2 to your disarm attemps aswell as the rest of your attacks and your damage too. Yeah way too expensive.