View Full Version : [Saga Edition] Force Power Redesign (PEACH!)

2010-09-24, 12:27 AM
Hi, me again. I hope you guys know Star Wars Saga Edition.

I run one Star Wars Saga Edition game and play in another. Though I love the system to death, and like the way they handled Force Powers, I can't help but feel that maybe they failed a bit when it came to how they scale and the implementation of some specific powers.

As it is, activating a Force Power is the same as any other skill check. This isn't a bad idea, but skills don't scale that linearly with levels like attacks do. In addition, many of the Force Powers given are broken at the base, like move object and energy drain.

To rectify that, I had two problems ahead of me. One, change the way activating Force Powers works, and two, change some of the Force Powers themselves.

We'll start with PART I: USING THE FORCE

The way you activate Force Powers is currently like so:
1/2 level + Charisma mod + 5 if trained + 5 for skill focus.

Any Force User who wanted to specialize in Force Powers would obviously grab Skill Focus as soon as they could. This lead to things like a level 1 character with 16 CHA having a +13 to UTF at level 1. DC 15 checks cannot be failed, and DC 20 checks have well over a 50% chance of success. Even DC 25 checks aren't too much trouble, with a 45% chance to succeed (12 or higher).

However, the most the character could ever get out of this skill was an additional +10 from levelling, provided he/she didn't up his/her Charisma over the course of the game. The maximum they will ever have is +23, supposing all of the above happens.

Now, level 20 characters can do some awesome stuff, but at that time, a +23 is going to hit a Defense of, say, 37 (10 + 20 levels + 3 in relevant stat + 4 class bonus) roughly 35% of the time. If the target has Unstoppable Force, that drops to 15%.

These are Sith Lords and Jedi Masters, and yet, their mastery of the Force isn't too impressive for being 20th level.

Clearly, a redesign was needed - both to fix the problem of ludicrously high low-level skill mods and to give a boost at the end game to reward those who had focused on Force powers.

Working with a friend, we concocted a new system that is similar to BAB. The math for activating a Force power with Use The Force is as follows:

3/4 level + Charisma mod + # of Force Training feats/2

With Skill Focus in UTF, it changes to this:

Full Level + Charisma mod + # of Force Training feats/2

The Force Training bonus is the number of Force Training feats you have taken divided by two and rounded down. It caps at a max of 3, since there are only 7 normal feat slots, and Force Training is never a bonus feat.

Yes, a bit complex, but here's why: Making it based on 3/4 or full character level eliminates the scaling problem. Skill Focus still provides ample rewards to those who choose it, though the rewards are more over time, and the Force Training bonus is a little extra to those who really choose to specialize in it. This way, those who want to dabble can still get a small bonus, and those who stick with it are rewarded.

To help, I've made a nice little graph charting the progress. Sorry if it is difficult to read. It uses the values in the above examples for Charisma mod and Defense calculation.


As seen, the new way scales much better and actually ends up a few points higher than the old way, in both the SF and non-SF cases.

So, the issue of Force Users being both overpowered for low levels and underpowered for high levels is done. Next up…


I love the variety of the powers given to the players. Some of them, however, can be a little wonky - both over and under powered.

For an example of overpowered: Drain Energy. You can take away a Jedi's lightsaber with a simple DC 15 check.

Underpowered: Force Blast. Did a maximum of 5d6 damage…with a DC 30 check. An equivalent Move Object check deals 8d6 points of damage, plus additional effects, like getting to move the target around.

With that in mind, I got my big PDF-o-Force-Powers out and started to peruse it, looking for Force Powers that could use either a buff or a nerf.

What I found is listed below. In many cases, I have not listed the full power, but I can go through the effort it takes and type up the new versions. However, I'm not sure if doing so would violate copyright (putting either the complete old versions or the new versions with my additions), so for now, I'll err on the side of caution.

Also note: Please, if you have suggested fixes for other Force Powers, let me know. These were just the ones that stuck out in my mind, and I would love to hear if you guys have done anything like this.

The words next to the Force Power name is the sourcebook that the original power can be found in.

And so, without further adieu,
Thread's List of Revised Force Powers

Replace the current description with the one below:
[light side]
You reach out to an ally telepathically, sending visions of the near future to give the ally an edge or protect the ally from harm.
Time: Swift action or reaction
Target: One ally within 12 squares of you and line of sight.
Make a Use the Force check:
The target may use the check result in place of any one of the following until the start of your next turn:
Attack roll: Use the check result, unmodified.
Skill check: If using the check result for a skill the target is not trained in, the target uses the check result - 5 and the target cannot use this check for a "trained only" application of the skill. Otherwise, use the check result, unmodified.
Opposed check: Use the check result, unmodified.
Defenses: Use the check result + 1/2 your heroic level to replace one defense of the target's choice.

Force grip now has the [dark side] descriptor added to it when the power is used against a living creature with an intelligence of 3 or higher.
Replace the "Special" description with the one given below:
Special: You may spend a Force Point to maintain force grip as a standard action for one additional round. No new Use the Force check is required.

Replace the current description with the one below:
Force Blast
You use the Force to create a ball of compressed air and debris that you can hurl at enemy targets.
Time: Standard Action.
Target: One target within 12 squares and line of sight.
Make a Use the Force check:
If your check equals or exceeds the target's Reflex Defense:
DC 15: The blast deals 2d6 points of damage to the target + 1/2 the character's heroic level. The target is also pushed away from the Jedi one square. For every 3 additional points over the target's Reflex Defense, the target is pushed an additional square. If the target hits a wall or other solid object, they take half the damage they took from the original Force Blast.
DC 20: 3d6 + 1/2 level.
DC 25: 4d6 + 1/2 level.
DC 30: 5d6 + 1/2 level.
DC 35: 6d6 + 1/2 level.
Special: You can spend a Force Point to add your full heroic level to damage (instead of 1/2) and push the target an additional 2 squares. In addition, you can spend a Destiny Point to add double your heroic level to damage and push the target an additional 10 squares.

Replace the current description with the one below:
Move Object
You telekinetically move a target.
Time: Standard action
Target: One creature or object within 12 squares and your line of sight.
NOTE: Before rolling your Use the Force check, pick one of the options below.
Make a Use the Force check:
If the target is a creature that resists your attempt, your Use the Force check must exceed the target's Fortitude Defense.
Option 1: Move Large Object - you pick up the target and give it a telekinetic push, focusing much of your power on simply moving it as opposed to damaging it. You can move the target six squares in any direction. If you push them into a solid surface, such as a wall, they take damage listed below. You can hurl the target at (or drop it on) another target in range if your Use the Force check exceeds the second target's Reflex Defense. Both targets take damage determined by your Use the Force check result:
DC 15: Move object up to Medium Size (deals 1d6 points of damage)
DC 20: Large size (deals 2d6 damage)
DC 25: Huge size (deals 3d6 damage)
DC 30: Gargantuan size (deals 4d6 damage)
DC 35: Colossal size (deals 5d6 damage)
Option 2: Slam - you pick up the target, move it straight up into the air, and then give it a rough telekinetic slam against the ground. This option goes for damage over control, and as a result, you cannot move objects larger than Huge size.
DC 15: Move object up to Medium size (deals 2d6 points of damage)
DC 20: 4d6 damage
DC 25: Move object up to Large size (6d6 damage)
DC 30: 8d6 damage
DC 35: Move object up to Huge size (10d6 damage)
Special: You may choose to maintain concentration on the object and move it from round to round if you chose the Move Large Object option of this power. Maintaining the move object power is a standard action, and you must make a new Use the Force check each round. If you suffer damage while maintaining move object, you must succeed on a Use the Force check (DC 15 + damage taken) to continue concentrating. If you deal damage with the move object power, you cease to be able to maintain it.
If you use move object against a hovering or flying target (such as a speeder or starship), the target can oppose your Use the Force check with a grapple check as a reaction. If the target wins the opposed check, you are unable to move the target.
If you chose the Move Large Object option, you may spend a Force Point to increase the maximum size of the object by one category an do an additional 1d6 damage, up to Colossal [frigate] and 6d6 damage. If you chose the Slam option, you may spend a Force Point to deal an additional 2d6 damage plus one-half your heroic level. Alternately, you may spend a Destiny Point to up the maximum size by three categories and do an additional 3d6 damage, to Colossal [station] and 8d6 damage or do an additional 6d6 + your full heroic level damage, if you chose Move Large Object or Slam, respectively.

Lower all DCs by 5.
In addition, you gain a +2 Force bonus to your next attack against the target.

Farseeing is now a standard action.
If you use farseeing, you may choose to use the presented option or the following new one:
Using farseeing grants you the ability to make a sense surroundings check and subsequent Perception check as if you were in any square within 12 squares and line of sight from your current position.
This is a DC 20 check.
You can maintain farseeing as a standard action, requiring a new Use the Force check each round. If you take damage while maintaining farseeing, you must succeed at a Use the Force check, DC 15 + damage taken, to continue maintaining farseeing.

Sever force is a full-round action.
Change "hours" to "rounds".
In the Destiny Point section, change "days" to "hours".
Spending a Destiny Point can negate the effects of sever force.
In addition, you can only use sever force once per day on any given target.

Add an additional DC to the tail end of it, with a fly speed of 8 squares.

By spending a Force Point, morichro can be used as a free action after a successful grab/grapple check.

While maintaining phase, you get a +5 bonus to your Reflex Defense, but you cannot attack. Doing so ends phase, and you can no longer maintain it.

Rend does 4d6 damage.

Lower all DCs by 5.

Increase all damage by +1d6.

Use DCs and damage as provided below:
DC 20: 4d6
DC 25: 6d6
DC 30: 8d6

Powers with the [lightsaber form] tag can be used in conjunction with attacks made while using a lightsaber with kinetic combat.

The bonuses apply to two defenses. Spending a Force Point applies the bonus to all defenses.
You can only have one instance of resist force active at a time.

This power is essentially useless in favor of inspire. Just FYI.

At the end of the Special section, add: In addition, the target cannot apply any of his swift actions towards moving up the condition track until the beginning of your next turn. Any talent or feat that allows movement up the condition track negates this penalty (i.e. Indomitable).

If a target has DR, double it for purposes of reducing damage.
Spending a Force Point increases the range to a 3x3 area.

Does 4d6 damage.

Increase the distance pushed to two squares.

If you wish to use this power on a powered object or droid, your check result applies against the Will Defense of the creature using the object or the Fortitude Defense of the droid and uses the DCs as listed. If the object is not attended, use the listed DCs.

The penalty applies to all skill checks, ability checks, defenses, opposed checks, and attack rolls. In addition, for each round that the target is affected by force light, increase the penalty by 1, to a maximum of the target's Dark Side Score.
Spending a Force Point increases the damage by +2d6.
Spending a Destiny Point does not cause the -1 penalty or the stacking penalties. Instead, it causes the target to automatically go down the condition track for each round of exposure. These are considered persistent conditions as long as the target is within 6 squares of you.
You may only use force light against a given target once per day. Maintaining the power for multiple rounds is counted as only one use.

This power is now called "Force Tempest"

Use the following DCs:
DC 15: The target gains a +1 Force bonus to Will Defense and 1d6 temporary HP.
DC 20: +2 Force bonus
DC 25: +5 Force bonus, +2d6 temporary HP
DC 30: +10 Force bonus.

Use the following DCs:
DC 20: The target takes 1d8 Force Damage and moves 1 step down the condition track. This condition is considered persistent and cannot be moved by any means until the end of your next turn.
DC 25: 2d8 damage
DC 30: 3d8 damage
Spending a Force Point grants an additional 1d8 damage and the target must spend 4 swift actions (as opposed to the normal 3) the first time it wishes to improve its condition.

The target takes a -5 to melee attack and a -2 to ranged attack rolls while under the effects of plant surge.

Add 1/2 your heroic level to damage done by thought bomb.

That's all I got. Comments, critiques, suggested revisions, and whatnot are all welcome, and if you want to hear my reasoning behind changing any of the powers, then please, ask me.

2010-09-24, 07:31 AM
I approve of your new system, I am hosting a SAGA edition game and feared that the force power would become near impossible to use in the later.

2010-09-24, 08:59 AM
I approve of your new system, I am hosting a SAGA edition game and feared that the force power would become near impossible to use in the later.

Thanks, glad to hear it. That was a problem that my groups haven't encountered yet, but that I know was going to crop up - I first noticed it when I was making the campaign's Big Bad, and I noticed that his Use the Force check was only 10 points higher than the party's level 3 Force tank.

It seemed a bit silly.