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DragonsAion
2010-09-30, 01:47 PM
I have a player that will be playing in a game of mine and he asked me to post this up for you all to review.

As for right now he has a build of Psion 1 for the Astral Construct power and four levels of Wilder. He is planning on taking 5 more levels of wilder and going into the pyrokineticist PC for the ten levels. (not really in that order)

He is planning on taking the practiced manifester feat so that by 20th level he has a manifester level of 14 that can be increased with wild surge to 16th.

His overall plan is to use Astral Construct as a bodyguard/ flanker in combat and to make up for the limited number of powers he will have. Also he is planning to take the energy *** line of powers in order to do damage to
monsters that are immune to fire damage.

***Sorry, forgot to add that he will be playing a Half-Giant as his race.

Psyborg
2010-09-30, 02:04 PM
Taking the feat Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct at Wilder 3 would let him manifest Astral Construct as a Wilder. With the Psion 1/Wilder X route, he still only has a manifester level with Psion powers of 1 (plus four from Practiced Manifester plus whatever he got from Pyrokineticist advancement, if any; I'm away from books atm).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-09-30, 02:09 PM
His Psion and Wilder manifester levels will be counted separately. With Practiced Manifester twice, one for each class, he'll have a manifester level of 13 for Wilder and 5 for Psion, each of which can be increased by Wild Surge, which won't even be any better than using Overchannel. At level 20 he won't get anything better than the 4th level astral construct, which will not make any noticeable contribution. His powerpoints will be pooled into one total, but his manifester level and powers known for the two classes will be completely separate just like if he was going Cleric/Wizard.

Pyrokineticist is extremely weak. The Bolt of Fire ability tops out at 10d6 damage per round, at a level when it's not going to make a significant contribution. The only useful ability the entire class grants is the Fire Lash at the first level, which is only good because you can Power Attack with it and make touch attacks. If he wants to deal damage, just learn powers like Energy Missile.

With those two things in mind, you should realize by now that this is going to be an extremely weak character. I doubt he'd be able to make a significant contribution, and the rest of the party will feel like they're carrying him through the adventures.

He could stick with Psion, use the Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ACF, maybe use the Anarchic Initiate prestige class in Complete Psionic, and maybe grab no more than nine levels of Constructor (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). This would put a strong focus on his astral constructs and he could learn offensive powers to deal energy damage and be a much more viable character as a primary caster.

He could stick with Wilder, grab just one level of Pyrokineticist (or some variant (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e)), and go into Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) to buff his BAB. Get Point Blank Shot (+1 attack and damage with the fire lash), Precise Shot, and Power Attack, and use the lash two-handed. Flanking won't matter because you make a ranged attack with it, but he'll be ignoring most of his opponents' AC bonuses with the touch attack. Keep in mind that extra damage is the same type as the weapon's base damage, so Power Attack will add more fire damage when you use it with the flame lash. He can spend a few feats on Expanded Knowledge to get Astral Construct and Energy Missile.

Edit: Half-Giant is an extremely weak race for the +1 LA. Maybe suggest he use one of the giant bloodlines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) with a human, or use Goliath from Races of Stone. If he insists on using Half-Giant, I'd waive the level adjustment for this character. The racial abilities it grants won't make him any better at what he does, in fact the -2 Dex will only hinder his attack rolls with his ranged touch spells and the fire lash, while the +2 Str won't increase his damage output and a large size fire lash will deal the same damage as one that's medium, small, or any other size.

Keld Denar
2010-09-30, 02:16 PM
Aren't there some feats in Complete Psionic that allow you to take on certain properties of your Astral Construct when you manifest it?

{Scrubbed}

DragonsAion
2010-09-30, 02:49 PM
for my games manifester levels stack for power purposes just like arcane spell casting levels for the sorcerer and the wizard.

your level in the class still affects the powers you can chose for that classes list.

Caliphbubba
2010-09-30, 02:51 PM
for my games manifester levels stack for power purposes just like arcane spell casting levels for the sorcerer and the wizard.

wait, what? is that a house rule of yours or are you under the assumption that is the way it's always worked? pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

it's fine if it's a house rule, but I'm confused.

DragonsAion
2010-09-30, 02:55 PM
it's how we have all ways played it. but after looking it up it seems to be a house rule i've mistaken as a core rule.

will explain in more detail when i'm not on lunch break.

SurlySeraph
2010-09-30, 03:35 PM
How you houserule that CL stack will be pretty important for how this build works. If the Psion level doesn't slow down his power progression, and gives him more power points as if it were another level of Wilder rather than giving 2, it would be worthwhile.


Pyrokineticist is extremely weak. The Bolt of Fire ability tops out at 10d6 damage per round, at a level when it's not going to make a significant contribution. The only useful ability the entire class grants is the Fire Lash at the first level, which is only good because you can Power Attack with it and make touch attacks. If he wants to deal damage, just learn powers like Energy Missile.

Don't forget Heat Death. But yes, he'll be much better served with a class that doesn't stop his manifester progression.

kestrel404
2010-09-30, 03:41 PM
If you're willing to accept some house rules, I think I've got a decent option. Instead of going Psion-Wilder, just see if he's willing to play a charisma-based Ardent. (Sub Charisma for Wisdom as manifesting attribute)

Ardent looks like a decent match here (assuming he doesn't have to decide between cha and wis), as he can flavor it however he wants (based on the mantles he chooses) and he can mix levels of Ardent with Pyrokineticist and still pick up more powers as he goes.

The nifty bit about Ardent is that you can take any power you can manifest - so by taking the Practiced Manifester feat right before/after leaving the class, you can take additional levels later and still get appropriately-leveled powers. It will also give him a lot more powers than Wilder.

As for being a half-giant, I think that's a poor option. If he's willing to play a +1 LA class, look at the Draconic template from Races of the Dragon - +2 to str, con and cha as well as claws and the dragonblood subtype for +1 LA. (Mild cheese here): Make it a Dragonborn Star-elf and he can have -2 dex, +2 cha and either a breath weapon that scales with hit dice (always nice) or flight (even better) without LA. These options can stack (Draconic Dragonborn Star Elf, would lose the claw attacks from the Draconic template due to Dragonborn template).

A Bloodline (I suggest Titan or Fey) would also work nicely as it plays well with both Manifesting classes in general (bloodline levels stack with manifester level for all purposes, including calculating bonus PP) as well as the Pyrokineticist class in particular (nd6 fire bolts, where N is based on class level).

DragonsAion
2010-09-30, 11:17 PM
The way it works in my game is that manifester levels and caster levels stack for the respected system. ( manifester level stacks with manifester levels, arcane stacks with arcane levels, and divine stacks with divine.)

For example, a psion 1 / psi-warrior 9 would have a manifester level of 10. So when ever he manifests a power he can manifests it as a 10th level manifester. However, he can only chose powers as per his class levels. (I.E he can only pick powers as a 1st level Psion and a 9th level Psi-warrior)

WinWin
2010-09-30, 11:31 PM
Could always just use the Mantled Wilder adaptation. The example even uses astral construct.

Link here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)

More info on Mantles in Complete Psionic. They are basically Domains for Psionic characters. The Creation Mantle will give access to a few Shaper powers.

DragonsAion
2010-10-01, 12:27 AM
I have both. the reason for wilder is for the elude touch class feature which lets him add his CHA mod to his touch AC and the DC for the pyro is based off CHA.

if it weren't for that the ardent would work well.

Hmmm, thanks for the link. I've looked it over and the mantled warrior looks neat. Might give that two him as a suggestion.