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ffone
2010-10-06, 08:33 PM
What are some weapon enhancements, or other items/spells/feats/etc. to improve tripping? My list so far is:

1. Improved Trip, of course
2. Known-Down feat (basically reverses the order of IT - attack, then free trip attack; it's errata'ed to not 'chain' with IT )
3. A weapon with a bonus, like a guisarme
4. A reach weapon (again, guisarme) seems nice for trapping, since a prone foe with lesser reach won't be able to 5' and full attack on their turn (and trapping someone is an AoO they provoke from movement could prevent them from getting where they were going - like completing a charge, or getting a full attack the round after, or fleeing from you)
5. getting larger size (Enlarge Person), for the size and Str bonus and (more) reach
6. Crystal of return (MiC) so if you have to drop the weapon to avoid being countertripped after a failed trip attempt, you can whisk the weapon back into hand next turn (forget if that's a move or free action, but prevents the AoO from picking something up the normal weapon)
7. If you have enough tumble ranks, the skill trick to stand up for free w/o proving AoOs, in case you're countertripped

Is there a weapon enhancement for tripping? Is there a way to prevent the countertrip attempt foes get when your trip attempt fails? Also, if you throw a melee weapon that you can be used for trip attempts, can you do a 'ranged trip'?

Also, does tripping work against flying foe (and if so what happens to them)?
What about foes who provoke a movement AoO during jump or climb movement? Can you trip oozes - AFAICT they had no RAW 'immunity' to it, but it's hard to conceptualize (i.e. write out / explain in-character)

gallagher
2010-10-06, 09:25 PM
you can gain situational modifiers for attacking from higher ground.

amaranth69
2010-10-06, 09:31 PM
Spiked chain. It takes EWP feat, but you get soooo much; reach and threatening adjacent spaces, tripping/disarming bonuses, no AoO on an attempt, and you can opt to drop the weapon if rolls say you would be tripped back. Plus it is finessible if you are going with a dex build.

true_shinken
2010-10-06, 09:34 PM
Is there a weapon enhancement for tripping?
I believe there is one in MiC, yes.


Also, if you throw a melee weapon that you can be used for trip attempts, can you do a 'ranged trip'?
Only if you are a Bloodstorm Blade.


Also, does tripping work against flying foe (and if so what happens to them)?
It works, they fall.

Grynning
2010-10-06, 09:39 PM
I feel like a Person_Man evangelist these days, but his melee compilations really are very useful. Three that are applicable here:
Melee combos: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026
Increasing size and reach (both needed): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595
Extra attacks and AoO's: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595

AslanCross
2010-10-06, 09:41 PM
It works, they fall.

I'm not sure if this is explicitly mentioned anywhere, though that's how I run it. Tripping a creature of less than Good maneuverability will cause it to "stop," causing it to fall below minimum forward speed. It will stall.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-06, 09:43 PM
2. Known-Down feat (basically reverses the order of IT - attack, then free trip attack; it's errata'ed to not 'chain' with IT )
Do you have the link for this ruling? I keep saying so, but can never provide documentation.



Also, does tripping work against flying foe (and if so what happens to them)?
You can trip foes which fly via wings. Link eagles, halfcelestials, griffins, etc. And yeah, they fall out of the air.
Though there are a few winged races which state that if they go unconscious in the air, their wings automatically open up to send them into a slow spin to the ground (might need a minimum distance to get the wings to open up) Not sure what happens when you trip those guys.
Something like a person using a fly spell, or a beholder, you can't really trip them.

jpreem
2010-10-07, 03:26 AM
Tripping has nothing to do with unconciousness. So i guess theyd work the same.

Eldariel
2010-10-07, 09:31 AM
I'm not sure if this is explicitly mentioned anywhere, though that's how I run it. Tripping a creature of less than Good maneuverability will cause it to "stop," causing it to fall below minimum forward speed. It will stall.

Rules Compendium covers it. If they fly with wings, they can be tripped. Otherwise not.

OMG PONIES
2010-10-07, 09:45 AM
Is there a weapon enhancement for tripping?

Sweeping (MIC page 44) is a +1 enhancement that provides a +2 competence bonus on trip checks. The book has other useful gear for trippers as well, such as:

Armbands of Might (page 72) for a +2 untyped bonus
Brute Gauntlets (page 83) for a morale bonus of +2 to +4 depending on how many charges you spend
Greatreach Bracers (pages 108-9) for 10 feet of extra reach 3/day. Some people favor these over the Armbands of Might.


Is there a way to prevent the countertrip attempt foes get when your trip attempt fails?

Sure, just drop your weapon.


Also, if you throw a melee weapon that you can be used for trip attempts, can you do a 'ranged trip'?

As true_shinken mentioned, only Bloodstorm Blades can do so. However, you may want to take a look at bolas, a ranged exotic weapon from the PHB. It allows you to make ranged trip attacks, though the range increment is only 10 feet.

Keld Denar
2010-10-07, 10:41 AM
Do you have the link for this ruling? I keep saying so, but can never provide documentation.

The actual errata is in the errata for Sword and Fist (a 3.0 book). It was errataed to not allow the follow-up attack from Imp Trip when you successfully trigger Knockdown. When Knockdown was reprinted in Dieties and Demigods (the source in the SRD, most recent printing), the errata was not included. Whether this was errata by ommision or a simple copy/pasta editing error has been heavily debated (mostly between myself and Curmudgeon, IIRC). Take from that what you will, I don't have any desire to debate it anymore.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-10-07, 10:49 AM
The Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld boosts trip checks nicely IIRC.

Radar
2010-10-07, 11:25 AM
I feel like a Person_Man evangelist these days, but his melee compilations really are very useful. Three that are applicable here:
Melee combos: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026
Increasing size and reach (both needed): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595
Extra attacks and AoO's: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595
You forgot his interesting melee control build: War Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138082). :smallbiggrin:

true_shinken
2010-10-07, 11:36 AM
You can get a bonus to the opposed check from Factotum 3 (Brains Over Brawn), Marshall 1 (Motivate Strenght) or a Cleric spell (forgot which; boosts opposed checks).

Keld Denar
2010-10-07, 11:54 AM
The Art of War minor Marshall aura also helps trip checks. If you could find some way to project two minor auras, you could get Cha x2 on your trip checks, one from increasing Str checks (which Trip is) and one from increasing all combat manevuers (which Trip also is).

Fun fun!

Person_Man
2010-10-07, 01:39 PM
Grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm).

Explosive Spell: If the enemy fails their Save against the spell, they are pushed to the edge of the spells area of effect, knocked prone, and take extra damage. +2 LA. Unapproachable East pg 43.

Wary Swordknight Substitution level: Allows a Halfling Paladin to be treated as one size larger when its advantageous to them (Bull Rush, Trip, Grapple, etc). Replaces Aura of Courage. Great for mounted builds. Champions of Valor pg 52.

Sand Snare: If you successfully Trip and enemy in an area of sand/loose dirt/etc, they must take a Full Round Action followed by a Move action if they want to stand up. No Save. Work with someone who has a Bottle of Endless or sand creating spells. Sandstorm pg 52.

Shield Charge: When you charge an enemy and attack with your Shield, you get a free Trip attack and your enemy. A good low level option when combined with Shield Slam (a Daze effect). Complete Warrior pg 105.

Alter Self/Wild Shape/Polymorph: Lots of forms have an auto-Trip ability, like the wolf.

Totem Barbarian variant: Trade various class features for Feats and a few other minor things. Wolf gives Improved Trip, bypassing Combat Expertise and it's Int requirement. Unearthed Arcana.

Tunnel Fighter: When you hit your enemy from higher ground (like when you’re mounted, or climb/fly above the enemy), your enemy must make a Balance check or be knocked Prone or give up his next Move action. When in a tunnel, you can block line of site, so your enemies can’t target your allies standing behind you. (Useful if you spend a lot of time in dungeons). Requires that you be a Dwarf or Gnome. Dungeonscape pg 46.

The Triad vestige (Mind’s Eye WotC article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a)). Grants a couple handy psionic powers, a limited number of power points, Smite Evil once every 5 rounds (a very handy bonus), +5 Diplomacy and Sense Motive, Bardic Knowledge, and proficiency with every weapon, including every exotic weapon. This basically opens up all of the Haberdash combos (Trip, Grapple, Disarm, etc) without having to take a level of Master of Masks, and some interesting Smite combos as well. Requires at least 10 levels of Binder (or Binder PrC) + the Improved Binder feat though, and by then you have access to crazy awesome vestiges like Dantalion, Desharis, Haures, and the uber Zagon. But hey, if you feel like being a melee build for the day, it's a nice option.

Orthos vestige also has a breath weapon that knocks everyone prone, plus all day 50% concealment and Blindsight. But it requires 15 levels of Binder or whatnot + Improved Binder feat.

Awesome Smite feat: Whenever you Smite and use Power Attack, you can ignore a certain amount of DR, or knock your enemy Prone, or ignore any miss chance your target might have - although as a tactical feat, you can only do one of these each time you Smite. Not limited to Smite Evil. And it's actually not that hard to get plenty of Smite attempts with the Smite weapon enhancement, Killoren, vestiges, and certain PrC. Comp Champion.


A metagame point that I've written before that's worth re-iterating - don't do the same thing over and over again every round. If you put most of your resources into one or two combos, then when your DM throws encounters at you that are immune or resistant to those combos, you are boned.

For example, incorporeal and swarm enemies cannot be tripped. Enemies that are sufficiently big and strong - giants, dragon, or other trip builds - will be very difficult to trip. And IIRC, you can't be tripped while underwater or on certain planes of existence. Plus Balance if you have 10 or more ranks, you can make a Balance check (-10 penalty) in place of a Str or Dex check to resist being tripped (Comp Adventurer pg 97). And there's the Combat Acrobat feat: If you make a DC 20 Balance check to negate being knocked Prone (essentially making you immune to Trip), and/or a DC 15 check to ignore up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. PHBII pg 76.

The point is - Trip is good - but not the end all be all of melee combat. If it's something you're interested in, give it a few feats and class abilities and then move on.

Togo
2010-10-07, 02:30 PM
Shock trooper - complete warrior. It doesn't help you trip, but it does allow you to combine trip with bull rush, and often characters that are good at one are good at the other...

Ruinix
2010-10-07, 02:41 PM
i don't remember well how exactly it achieve but i recall there is a few feats for whisper gnome (RoS) wich with titan fight and other feat it have bonus to trip against 2 size biger enemys, negate the enemy size bonus and negate the trip back in case of fail the check. and give +10 AC bonus as well or more XD

Greenish
2010-10-07, 02:46 PM
i don't remember well how exactly it achieve but i recall there is a few feats for whisper gnome (RoS) wich with titan fight and other feat it have bonus to trip against 2 size biger enemys, negate the enemy size bonus and negate the trip back in case of fail the check. and give +10 AC bonus as well or more XDConfound the Big Folk.

Soranar
2010-10-07, 06:14 PM
the only ranged trip I can think of , outside of the ones already mentioned, is through using the master thrower PrC

take the trip shot feature of the class (available at the first level)

you get +4 to your trip attempt and it's DEX based

it works well except for 1 thing , prone characters get +4 AC from ranged attacks due to being prone, so normally it's more of a support build as it's difficult to go for the kill at that point (but your meatshield should be happy to smash them into the ground in your place)