4.0 charachters and indestructability

[meolmir1]

hey people just converted from 3.5 D&D to 4.0 and i must say its been a nigthmare so many old rules that once brought power and simplicity to the game have been nerfed and removed. my question is directed towards those who are well versed in both 3.5 and 4.0 i am currently in need of a lvl 7 charachter i want to make the charachter in some sense...broken as to annoy my dm :smallbiggrin:

I am currently leaning towards the ranger (melee) and or the artificer(undecided)

So if any1 has any charachter build they would suggest that could take an onslaught of a 'rule abiding' dm (must be 4.0 i cannot stress this enough) i would greatly appreciate it and if you could find a way to make it as broken as "THAT DAMN CRAB!!!" I will be throughouly impressed and post the results of the next game

all help is appreciated

[Mando Knight]

Nothing in 4e is that broken anymore: WotC has been quite diligent about "updating" away any infinite loops or such.

As it is, I ask you: which over-optimized build do you want to use? Do you want to deal excessive damage? Lock an entire encounter down with just a wave of your hand? Sit down and sip tea while your enemies fail at killing you? Sip tea while the Barbarian does your dirty work? Heal such an insane amount of damage each round that the DM starts pulling out things with attack and damage rolls way beyond your level just so he can keep one of your guys bloodied for more than one turn?

[WitchSlayer]

Ranger is a strong class, but even an optimized build in a strong class won't make you wizard level broken in 4e

[Mystral]

Roll a defender. Nothing more to it.

Which defender? We need more info what you really want to do with him. Do you want to just take as much damage as possible? Do you want to protect your allies? Do you want to dish out the damage yourself?

[Aron Times]

hey people just converted from 3.5 D&D to 4.0 and i must say its been a nigthmare so many old rules that once brought power and simplicity to the game have been nerfed and removed. my question is directed towards those who are well versed in both 3.5 and 4.0 i am currently in need of a lvl 7 charachter i want to make the charachter in some sense...broken as to annoy my dm :smallbiggrin:

I am currently leaning towards the ranger (melee) and or the artificer(undecided)

So if any1 has any charachter build they would suggest that could take an onslaught of a 'rule abiding' dm (must be 4.0 i cannot stress this enough) i would greatly appreciate it and if you could find a way to make it as broken as "THAT DAMN CRAB!!!" I will be throughouly impressed and post the results of the next game

all help is appreciated
Building a decent character in 4e is easy. It's very difficult to make an underpowered character if you have some common sense, and it's also very difficult to make an overpowered character unless your DM allows questionable rules interpretations at the table. Basically, the game is very well-balanced despite its now large library of splatbooks, and you don't have to spend hours trying to build a balanced character, one that won't break the game (wizard, CoDzilla) nor be dead weight to the party (monk).

The others can help you more about building a ranger or an artificer, since I don't play those classes, so I thought I'd offer some other kind of advice...

Basically, roleplaying noncombat encounters in 4e is like freeform roleplaying with a few dice rolls. Plot-breaking and game-breaking spells have been removed from the game, forcing players to actually roleplay instead of using a single spell to solve the problem. This sounds cliche, but try to think out of the box; think of what you want your character to do first instead of looking at what's on his character sheet first.

According to the various articles in Dungeon magazine, DMs in 4e are encouraged to "say yes or roll for it." Basically, if you want to find a map of the surrounding area, the DM should give it to you or make you roll for it. And it's not a matter of a single roll to resolve the issue. It could be a roll to find out why there are no maps, another to find someone who could make a map, maybe a roll to find out why the cartographer's shop in the next town has been burned to the ground, etc.

[Reluctance]

A kobold with a Candle of Evocation and designs on Manipulate Form. I don't care that those don't exist in 4e, your character will definitely annoy the DM. That can get you kicked out, then maybe the rest of the group can get on enjoying their game without someone trying to spoil things at every turn.

[Mystic Muse]

Why are you trying to annoy the DM?


A kobold with a Candle of Evocation and designs on Manipulate Form.

now now, how can he break the game when you point him to items that don't even exist in 3.5 let alone 4th edition:smalltongue:It's Invocation, not evocation

[herrhauptmann]

1)This isn't a text message, you can use full words and correct spelling, we won't laugh at you. But that's one of my pet peeves...
2)Yeah the switch from 3.5 to 4e (or between any two editions) is always a pain. If you're not completely used to 4E, asking for a super overpowered character is probably a waste. Just the different abbreviations alone can be enough to cause headaches when an optimizer is giving advice
3)Why are you intending to mess with the DM? You can't 'win at D&D.' And if you try, well the DM can always win against the players, simply by virtue of the fact that he designs the encounters, and knows what that dice roll on the random encounter chart means: 8 goblin minions or 3 ogre brutes against your 2nd level party.
4)Most of the overpowered stuff seems to have been removed/edited/whatever by WoTC. A lot more so than they ever did with 3.0/3.5. And the whole character builder program makes it much easier for them to ensure that the majority of players know of the changes as soon as they happen (rather than hunting down errata/faq on the wotc site.)
5)The only time I've seen someone make an underpowered character in 4E, they were literally trying to do almost everything with their character concept. Everything except what the class was designed for. Like a rogue intended to be a leader, and defender, and a controller (via area effects and summoning somehow), however the player didn't want to be the striker. He didn't like the idea of throwing fistfuls of d6 in 3.5, and wanted to avoid it in 4E as well...

[meolmir1]

k so im messing with my dm because he has made converting a living h*ll He has sent over powered creatures at my party and I (lvl 13 monsters for a lvl 7 party) and has been aiming and killing every character (im the only one to have died in my party) ive made this character will be my third so far!!:smallfurious:

As u can see I have a jerk for a dm just because. I have already consider leaving the game but i would be stuck with out D&D for the next 4 years as im in college in the middle of nowhere so instead I am going to have my character frustrate him by staying alive doing massive amounts of damage

I dont care what kind of build it is im willing to work with anything just send me what you have

thanks as always

[Yuki Akuma]

Dude. Level 13 monsters aren't overpowered against well-built level 7 characters. Have you read the DMG at all?

Just because you keep dying doesn't mean your DM is out to get you. It could mean you have bad luck, or you're bad at the game. Or maybe he's bad at balancing, taking the XP costs without taking into account what the party is capable of.

Unless your DM is cackling in sadistic glee when you die, but I doubt that.

Trying to build a character to 'get back at' your DM isn't the way to do things. Not least because, as DM, he can smack you down at will for disrupting the game. And if he is out to get you, no amount of cheese will save you anyway.

[Kesnit]

Just because you keep dying doesn't mean your DM is out to get you. It means you have bad luck, or you're bad at the game.

The fact that the OP is the only one who has died adds credence to the idea that the OP is just unlucky. Bad rolls can mess up any encounter.

As others have said, you aren't going to be able to built an extremely OP character in 4e. And even if you did, the DM will just throw harder monsters at the party in order to challenge your PC, meaning the other PCs will likely die because they aren't powerful enough.

You said you've had 2 PCs die so far. What were they, and how did they die? If you explain the situation, maybe we can help you with builds that will work better for your preferred play style.

[Fallbot]

If you think the DM is picking on your character unfairly (maybe, maybe not, not enough information for me to judge), then talk to them about it, don't go behind their back to create some kind of game breaking monster of a character (easier said than done in 4E). If they really are out to get you, then they'll get you anyway no matter what you do, and if you've just been dying due to bad luck or the DM not being familiar with the new rules then you're creating animosity and ruining everyone else's fun for no reason. Seriously, this is not the way to deal with people.

[Sinon]

Just because you keep dying doesn't mean your DM is out to get you. It could mean you have bad luck, or you're bad at the game. Or maybe he's bad at balancing, taking the XP costs without taking into account what the party is capable of.

Or everybody (OP, DM, and the party members all included) don't understand how party roles work in 4e.

I think we need to know about the classes you played the first two times and in what kind party. Did you have a defender? Was he doing his job?


If we get the context a little better, we can give you advice on builds and tactics that will result in higher survival rates.

I realize that's not the advice you (OP) are seeking, but if your characters start making it through encounters alive, I think you'll be less inclined to want to annoy your DM.

And no one seems inclined to help you do that anyway.


So what were you playing? In what kind of party?

[elpollo]

k so im messing with my dm because he has made converting a living h*ll He has sent over powered creatures at my party and I (lvl 13 monsters for a lvl 7 party) and has been aiming and killing every character (im the only one to have died in my party) ive made this character will be my third so far!!:smallfurious:

To be fair, if you're the only one who's died he's clearly not killing every character.



As u can see I have a jerk for a dm just because. I have already consider leaving the game but i would be stuck with out D&D for the next 4 years as im in college in the middle of nowhere so instead I am going to have my character frustrate him by staying alive doing massive amounts of damage

Could you not run a game yourself? Or talk to him. Screw the former, just talk to him. He sounds like he's new to 4th.



Dude. Level 13 monsters aren't overpowered against well-built level 7 characters. Have you read the DMG at all?

Eh... their defences are significantly higher than they should be, and the characters will very rarely be hitting. Whilst such fights are far from unwinnable they take ages as the characters never hit. The monster will also almost always be hitting, so has a constant stream of damage. I believe that a lower level elite (you can solo, but they tend to take a while to kill as well) and some minions (whether these be actual minions or simply normal monsters is up to the DM) make a much more interesting fight.



Just because you keep dying doesn't mean your DM is out to get you. It could mean you have bad luck, or you're bad at the game. Or maybe he's bad at balancing, taking the XP costs without taking into account what the party is capable of.

What?

But no, it sounds like the DM is throwing a too high level monster at the party when he should be making it a solo/elite to make sure the party can actually hit regularly. Also throw in sidekicks to stop stun-locking, or use those crazy solos with multiple turns per round.




Trying to build a character to 'get back at' your DM isn't the way to do things. Not least because, as DM, he can smack you down at will for disrupting the game. And if he is out to get you, no amount of cheese will save you anyway.

Damn straight.

Definately talk to him. Offer him advice. Possibly send him to some forums so he can get help building appropriate encounters. Help him grow as a DM rather than try to destroy the game. Seriously, if you go into something with the mindset that you're not going to enjoy it, don't be surprised when you don't enjoy it. Make the most of the game and you might actually start having fun.



1)This isn't a text message, you can use full words and correct spelling, we won't laugh at you. But that's one of my pet peeves...

Don't you ever feel the need to defend this point. Fight on, brother!

[Hzurr]

...so many old rules that once brought power and simplicity to the game.

Um...wait, you're saying that 3.5 had more simplicity than 4E? Really?


Also, what everyone else has said is pretty accurate. 4E is tough to make an "overpowered" character. If you want nothing but raw damage, a bow-ranger is pretty nasty, but you end up doing nothing but spamming twin-strike the entire game.

I might recommend going wizard, and focusing on things like walls, zones, and other stuff that significantly screw with Monster abilities (you won't be doing a lot of damage, though). I've found that a very good controller does more to mess with a DMs plans than any other character.


On a more important note: Have you spoken to your DM about your frustration? If he's also still getting used to the conversion, maybe he just needs some time, and needs to hear about your issues with the game in a calm, mature manner. Trying to annoy him more than he annoys you is not the way to go.

[Mando Knight]

Dude. Level 13 monsters aren't overpowered against well-built level 7 characters. Have you read the DMG at all?


Against well-built lv7 characters, true. However, they are just barely outside the range of "expected encounter material" for a "difficult" encounter for "average" lv7 characters (i.e. those who might have swapped out a few "power" choices for "flavor" choices). Level 13 Elites or Solos, however, would be way out of most Level 7 characters' ability to defeat.

If you're the one who's dying all the time, I think the problem might either be with you or with your relationship with the DM. In both cases, don't antagonize him (Hell hath no fury like a DM scorned. No, wait...), and try to change up your tactics a bit.

What were your characters before? How did they die? What's the makeup of your group? What kinds of monsters do you usually face? What do you do when you enter a fight? Have you made your DM angry? Have you openly insulted his choice of game system?
All of these questions are things you should look at before complaining on the internet that your DM's a jerk because your character died.

[WitchSlayer]

I'm almost wondering if your DM doesn't really know 4E all that well and assumes the power level is roughly the same as 3.5, thus he throws really strong monsters to compensate for your party's possible cheese.