Is it ever alright to hit a girl?

[John Cribati]

Okay, hear me out here: I'm not the kind of person who starts fights. I've been in three fights in my whole life (and won two; third was a draw b/c of teacher). Now, I've never "seriously" fought a girl before: What do you think is the protocol on that?

Personally, if the girl wants to fight me, let her come after me, but I won't hold back. Gender Equality and self defense. I'll never throw the first blow; I'll never even challenge a woman to a fight, but once she throws a punch at me, I'm throwing one back.

[Zevox]

Same times it's alright to hit a guy. Necessary self-defense only. 'Tis the only fair way.

Zevox

[KerfuffleMach2]

If she's coming at you with a knife, I think a punch or two is called for.

In all honesty, I mostly agree. Personally, I'll let a couple hits go before I hit back. I'd mostly just try restraint at first.

[Emperor Ing]

Some guys say they won't hit a girl. Even if it's one of those "you say that now..." things or it's "chivalrous" it's sexism. Plain and simple. :smallannoyed:

[ForzaFiori]

I have hit a few girls before, but I have never thrown the first punch, in any fight. I will admit, I tend to give girls more leeway than guys, but if a girl truly wants to fight and is trying to hurt me, I'll stop her just like I would a guy. Having taken martial arts, I learned quickly that girls can beat the piss out of you just as well as a guy can

[Dr.Epic]

If they started it (regardless of gender) then whatever. Fight back.

[Trog]

In self-defense while fighting for my life? Sure.

Otherwise, no. :smallannoyed:

[Worira]

Same times it's alright to hit a guy. Necessary self-defense only. 'Tis the only fair way.

Zevox

Here is the correct answer.

I'll add "Practice or competition for martial arts" to the "times it's all right to hit someone", though.

[Haruki-kun]

Only if it's in self-defense. Or defending someone else from physical harm. Otherwise no.

[Thajocoth]

There's always a nonviolent solution to every problem, even if it's not obvious.

If the girl wants you to hit her, or hitting her will save someone's life (yours, hers, someone else's...) or she starts a fight with you, I'd say it's fine... But the same exact applies to guys, hermaphrodites, androids, and everyone else.

[Zevox]

Here is the correct answer.

I'll add "Practice or competition for martial arts" to the "times it's all right to hit someone", though.
True - and other sports involving hitting, like boxing, wrestling, etc. Wasn't thinking about them since that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing the OP is talking about.

Zevox

[FoE]

I have no problem with hitting or even killing woman in self-defence. However, I generally wouldn't challenge a girl to a fight as readily as I would a guy, though I wouldn't necessarily back down from a challenge either.

[Moonshadow]

Yes, but I don't hit ladies.

[Andraste]

Yes, in self defense only. However for me, that applies whether it's a girl or a guy.

[Starbuck_II]

Only if you believe in Equality.

If you believe woman are weaker than you shouldn't hit a lady*.

Me, I'm all about equality. So I would if I had to, but no less than a guy.

I'm trying for pacifism (fighting as last resort) lately.

*A lady doesn't start fights.

[Tonal Architect]

It's just as right to hit a girl as it is to hit a guy.

[Jack Squat]

For serious self defense, or for sparring I will.

In just a normal 'a chick decides to take a swing at me' scenario*, I probably won't hit her back. With the size/strength of an average female, I'm more likely to restrain them than throw punches, as I'm more able to overpower them. I'm more likely to strike a guy because at my weight and fitness level, and with the type of guy that's likely to get into a fight, I'm at a disadvantage.



*not that the scenario is normal for me, but it's excluding additional factors such as weapons and drug use.

[thubby]

is it alright? so long as its alright to hit anyone else in the same situation.

would I? she'd probably have to go farther than a guy would. actually getting up to hitting someone is an emotional thing.

[DeadManSleeping]

Only when it's alright to hit a guy.

Of course, different amounts of force are necessary for people of different toughness. On average, a girl will not be able to take as much force as a guy. Still, I prefer to judge each case individually. Averages mean little to the individual, in this sort of situation.

[Tinkee]

Wait, you mean you aren't supposed to hit girls?

[junglesteve]

DEAR GOD NO! DON'T DO IT! Not for any moral reason but for a 'i dont want a misdemeanor and me battering a woman on my record' reason. Seriously, my friend's ex was punching him in the face so he trips her into the snow and sits on her until the cops shows up. End of the story? He is booked with assault or some other lesser version, great job!

If a woman is involved #1 run the **** away because equality doesnt exist and the law is stacked in their favor. #2 Take the beating and wait for cops to show and press charges.


For serious self defense, or for sparring I will.

In just a normal 'a chick decides to take a swing at me' scenario*, I probably won't hit her back. With the size/strength of an average female, I'm more likely to restrain them than throw punches, as I'm more able to overpower them. I'm more likely to strike a guy because at my weight and fitness level, and with the type of guy that's likely to get into a fight, I'm at a disadvantage.



*not that the scenario is normal for me, but it's excluding additional factors such as weapons and drug use.

Any 'restraining' will still not bode well for you.

[Force]

In a fight wherein I cannot escape and must do harm in order to preserve mine/another's life? Sure.

Girl punches me in the shoulder? No.

[CynicalAvocado]

if said female had me on the ground, clawing my face off, the i'd hit her to get her off.

[nihilism]

first of all its almost never acceptable to hit anyone regardless of gender.
I see violence as a social tool. if a social situation gets to the point where it is appropriate to hit someone gender is irrelevant.

The hitting girls taboo is a holdover from an age of sexism along with "ladies first" and "woman's place is in the home" none of them have a place in society.

don't men have the right not to be clobbered?

note, this is all moral and philosophical as junglesteve said you probably would be arrested.

[BizzaroStormy]

I think this is all assuming that you and the metaphoric female are in a situation where a punch would typically be appropriate. Not just punching them because you feel like it.

Anyway, I think it's perfectly fine. Though I would prefer to headbutt the other party in place of a punch.

[Copacetic]

Eh. I don't think so. Considering that most non-martial arts trained women are less than a match for me, I see no reason why I would punch them like a dude. Men, on the other hand, have a good chance of doing a solid amount of harm to me, so I have no quams about striking them wherever. If I can deal less harm to the women, than I will.

[Don Julio Anejo]

You people who say "it's okay to hit a woman" do realize that while they are equal to men cognitively/emotionally/legally/etc, most women also don't train upper body strength, are physically smaller and also can't take very much of a punch, right? Wannabe Shwarzenegger bodybuilders notwithstanding, obviously. It's kind of like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he's pissing me off."

If it ever gets to a fight, most men are strong enough to restrain a woman (as in, hold her arms so she can't hit you but without actually harming her) anyway. Although I honestly can't think of a situation (that isn't at least in part your fault) where a woman would want to hit you anyway. Hell, even with men, 90% of fights start because of pissing contests, be it at five or at forty-five.

[VanBuren]

You people who say "it's okay to hit a woman" do realize that while they are equal to men cognitively/emotionally/legally/etc, most women also don't train upper body strength, are physically smaller and also can't take very much of a punch, right? Wannabe Shwarzenegger bodybuilders notwithstanding, obviously. It's kind of like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he's pissing me off."

If it ever gets to a fight, most men are strong enough to restrain a woman (as in, hold her arms so she can't hit you but without actually harming her) anyway. Although I honestly can't think of a situation (that isn't at least in part your fault) where a woman would want to hit you anyway. Hell, even with men, 90% of fights start because of pissing contests, be it at five or at forty-five.

Although again, individuals trump averages. The general rule is, if you can restrain, restrain. If, however, they're strong enough that you can't, then defend yourself.

[JonestheSpy]

This:


Eh. I don't think so. Considering that most non-martial arts trained women are less than a match for me, I see no reason why I would punch them like a dude. Men, on the other hand, have a good chance of doing a solid amount of harm to me, so I have no quams about striking them wherever. If I can deal less harm to the women, than I will.

And this:


You people who say "it's okay to hit a woman" do realize that while they are equal to men cognitively/emotionally/legally/etc, most women also don't train upper body strength, are physically smaller and also can't take very much of a punch, right? Wannabe Shwarzenegger bodybuilders notwithstanding, obviously. It's kind of like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he's pissing me off."

If it ever gets to a fight, most men are strong enough to restrain a woman (as in, hold her arms so she can't hit you but without actually harming her) anyway. Although I honestly can't think of a situation (that isn't at least in part your fault) where a woman would want to hit you anyway. Hell, even with men, 90% of fights start because of pissing contests, be it at five or at forty-five.

In the majority of cases, even if a woman is attacking a guy, the guy will have options to defend himself and/or restrain the woman without actually hitting her.

[Andraste]

It's kind of like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he's pissing me off."

No, it's like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he/she's attacking me." I wouldn't hit anyone just because they're pissing me off. A weak female deserves no better than a weak male.

(I'm not saying I would only hit weak people, I was just continuing with your wording)

[Moff Chumley]

I'm going to side with the "if I'm hitting anyone, I don't discriminate" faction. But I try to avoid hitting people. *shrug*

[nihilism]

has anyone noticed that not a single female has posted on this thread?

[Seffbasilisk]

I don't hit ladies.

Some drunk coming at me swinging, odds are, isn't a lady.

If she is, I'll restrain her as nonviolently as I am capable of. If she's not, I'll mostly deflect, and toss.

If she strikes at the family jewels? All bets are off.

[Lord_Gareth]

Morally, if it's alright to hit a guy, it's alright to hit a girl. Dealing with the realities of law enforcement, however, I won't hit a girl. However, I would like to note that if someone wants to play, I'll shake their bouncy booty.

[Zevox]

It's kind of like saying "it's okay to hit someone significantly weaker than me if he's pissing me off."
Except that it's not even remotely that, since nobody here has suggested that it's okay to hit anyone just because they're pissing you off.

Zevox

[Wandiya]

Only when it's okay to hit a man and I follow this no matter the gender

Do not hurt when holding is enough
Do not wound when hurting is enough
Do not maim when wounding is enough
The last two lines never come into play though (yet).

Edit: had one too many lines in.

[Worira]

Oh god, the lack of parallel sentence structure, it burns.

[Gorgondantess]

I've hit a girl for the sole purpose of proving that I would, and that it's no worse than hitting a guy. Of course, I knew said female would be okay with it before I hit her, but the point still stands.:smallamused:

[Castaras]

has anyone noticed that not a single female has posted on this thread?

Sup.

Nope, I don't discriminate between hitting girls and guys. However, the stereotype that you shouldn't hit girls has worked in my favour once before. (Guy being a bastard in class, [as usual. Despite people telling him to bugger off and leave me be] I slap him, people laugh at him because he got owned by the geeky girl; teacher "Didn't see a thing"). So while I don't think it's right, I do like the stereotype, and I will if there is an absolute need abuse the stereotype so as to sort out the situation.

[Remmirath]

has anyone noticed that not a single female has posted on this thread?

Probably because that supposed rule only applies to males? At least, that's why I hadn't before now.

I should think it fairly obvious that it is all right to hit a girl in any situation it would be all right to hit anyone else in. Not that there are really wonderfully many of those that won't potentially get you locked up or what.

The only real difference as pointed out earlier is that the girl might be weaker than you, but so might a guy you're hitting. And she might not be. You don't know. Sure, if either one looks obviously weak it's probably best not to clobber them at full force, but it's not always easy to tell just by looking at someone how strong (and especially how tough) they are.

[Coidzor]

Only when it's okay to hit a man and I follow this no matter the gender

The last two lines never come into play though (yet).

Hmm... What's the source on that? Aikido?

[Kris Strife]

I'll ask them if the believe in gender equality first. :smallamused:

[Alleine]

I'd never hit a girl. I'd also never hit a guy. If I'm that close I've already lost.

Being physically weaker than 90% of the people I know has its downsides. Luckily firearms can take people out from a distance regardless of personal strength :smallwink:

[thubby]

I'd never hit a girl. I'd also never hit a guy. If I'm that close I've already lost.

Being physically weaker than 90% of the people I know has its downsides. Luckily firearms can take people out from a distance regardless of personal strength :smallwink:

"if it's a fair fight, you aren't cheating nearly enough" my old martial arts teacher would say :smalltongue:

[Xefas]

DEAR GOD NO! DON'T DO IT! Not for any moral reason but for a 'i dont want a misdemeanor and me battering a woman on my record' reason. Seriously, my friend's ex was punching him in the face so he trips her into the snow and sits on her until the cops shows up. End of the story? He is booked with assault or some other lesser version, great job!

If a woman is involved #1 run the **** away because equality doesnt exist and the law is stacked in their favor. #2 Take the beating and wait for cops to show and press charges.

This basically.

I doubt more anecdotal evidence is necessary, but suffice it to say, I've also witnessed instances of the above. Law enforcement of any kind is always going to take the lady's side.

[Alleine]

"if it's a fair fight, you aren't cheating nearly enough" my old martial arts teacher would say :smalltongue:

Such a wise teacher :smallcool:

[Morph Bark]

Here is the correct answer.

I'll add "Practice or competition for martial arts" to the "times it's all right to hit someone", though.

And since martial arts is pretty much for self defense only, this is a mere extension of that, too.

[Wandiya]

Hmm... What's the source on that? Aikido?

Nope, It's from the Thomas Covenant series of books (I've only read 1st series so it's in one of them) by Stephen Donaldson. No idea what aikido is.
The last two lines are:


And kill not when maiming is enough
The greatest warrior is he who does not need to kill

[factotum]

I wouldn't ever start a fight or throw the first punch*, but if someone starts fighting me then I'm going to defend myself regardless of their gender.

* Although if I'm really, really annoyed I've been known to punch inanimate objects like doors...

[Jack Squat]

Any 'restraining' will still not bode well for you.

For the record, I wasn't talking in a theoretical sense. It's worked out so far.

[IthroZada]

To think I looked through this entire thread without finding a single joke involving incomplete sandwiches or empty kitchens.

Seriously though, it seems that almost everyone is on the same page that you treat the woman the same way as the man, respectfully, with a bit more restraint concerning the woman. Which certainly seems the best way to do it. Don't hit the woman if she slaps you maybe once, but if she's got a knife don't hold back.

[Spiryt]

but if she's got a knife don't hold back.

And run away. :smalltongue:

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Those who know me on here will know my answer.

I would only ever hit a woman if there was no possible alternative. Otherwise, there is no way I would ever do so. I've been called sexist or chauvanistic by women who want to have something to prove, but if that's what being a gentleman means, then I am more than willing not to harm a gender of people who are typically physically weaker than myself.

/oldfashionedvalues

[endoperez]

And since martial arts is pretty much for self defense only, this is a mere extension of that, too.

Many martial art styles are also done as a sport. Some people are in it for the sport, not the martial art. Sumo, olympic wrestlers, olympic judokas, olympic tae kwon do practitioners, etc etc practice a sport. Chinese wushu is martial arts, but not all people who do it practice it for that. Tai chi is a martial art, but most people doing it aren't training in it to fight.


1) There's always a nonviolent solution to every problem, even if it's not obvious.

2) If the girl wants you to hit her

2) :smallamused: Heh, good catch! That sounds like another valid, possibly kinky, reason.


1) One should strive to find the nonviolent solution to every problem you come across. However, there isn't a perfect solution for every problem. If you are already being attacked, you won't have time to talk the other guy (or gal) out of it, and you can't always tell what choices result in those situations. In an extreme case, if you live in a country that's in the middle of a civil war, there's no nonviolent solution to the war. Refusing to do violence yourself won't make the violence go away...

[Maroon]

This basically.

I doubt more anecdotal evidence is necessary, but suffice it to say, I've also witnessed instances of the above. Law enforcement of any kind is always going to take the lady's side.
So in essence, when the cops comes calling, the idea is to camp it up?

[Serpentine]

No more nor less than it is alright to hit a guy.

[KenderWizard]

has anyone noticed that not a single female has posted on this thread?

It was a weirdly long time before any did!



I doubt more anecdotal evidence is necessary, but suffice it to say, I've also witnessed instances of the above. Law enforcement of any kind is always going to take the lady's side.

It's not true that the cops will always side with the woman, but there is a bias. If you've both been injured, the onus will fall on the man, because he's probably done more damage: as a lot of people have pointed out, women are smaller and slimmer, on average. But male abuse is becoming more recognised in society. If the man was attacked first, and can keep calm and explain his side, he's got a good chance. Unfortunately, if you've both just been fighting, you've both got your adrenaline going, which makes you both aggressive, but the woman drops her level first and starts crying, so now the man's aggressive and the woman's crying, and that does look bad.

I dunno, I've only ever hit girls*, because it's not fair for a girl to pick a fight with a guy, because they get into trouble if they fight back! :smallamused: Is it ever alright to hit a guy?

*Sparring or messing around with friends, not picking fights in bars or anything!

[mangosta71]

If a person is big and strong enough that restraining them will be difficult/impossible, I'll put 'em down regardless of gender. Men are more likely to fall into that category, but I'll drop a woman that applies just as fast.

[Phaedra]

This basically.

I doubt more anecdotal evidence is necessary, but suffice it to say, I've also witnessed instances of the above. Law enforcement of any kind is always going to take the lady's side.

Ah ha ha. I assure you law enforcement does not in any meaningful sense "always take the lady's side". Quite the opposite in fact, at least in the UK.


Those who know me on here will know my answer.

I would only ever hit a woman if there was no possible alternative. Otherwise, there is no way I would ever do so. I've been called sexist or chauvanistic by women who want to have something to prove, but if that's what being a gentleman means, then I am more than willing not to harm a gender of people who are typically physically weaker than myself.

/oldfashionedvalues

Something to prove? What an intruiging statement. Do expand.


As to the original question, you should hit a girl in precisely the same circumstances that you would hit a boy - only if really necessary and as a last resort. There should be no difference based on sex.

[mangosta71]

Something to prove? What an intruiging statement. Do expand.

I assume he means that the woman in question imagines him to be sexist so that she can feel superior. In essence, a person that just wants to be argumentative for the sake of being an ass.

[Lvl45DM!]

I think of it like this.
Is a man allowed to hit a smaller, weaker man?
Is Roy allowed to hit Elan?

in my mind the answer is no

[Morph Bark]

To think I looked through this entire thread without finding a single joke involving incomplete sandwiches or empty kitchens.

I think that says something about the maturity level here.

And let's not forget the possibility of "I'd hit that" jokes either.

Seriously though, I think it is commendable that such things aren't prevalent in this thread.


EDIT:

I think of it like this.
Is a man allowed to hit a smaller, weaker man?
Is Roy allowed to hit Elan?

in my mind the answer is no

So, in the same vein, is a man allowed to hit a bigger, stronger man?

[MountainKing]

Some guys say they won't hit a girl. Even if it's one of those "you say that now..." things or it's "chivalrous" it's sexism. Plain and simple. :smallannoyed:

No it isn't; it's a preference for not cooling my heels in the county jail. :smallannoyed: Or better, a state prison. :smallannoyed::smallannoyed: Depending on where I'm at, there are some really bad places that I do NOT want to end up in because I hit a girl, and I happen to know full well that the law enforcement in these places (aka, the places that I frequent, your milage may vary) will be more than happy to put cuffs on ME before they put cuffs on the woman.

So, there's your sexism; blame the establishment.


I have hit a few girls before, but I have never thrown the first punch, in any fight. I will admit, I tend to give girls more leeway than guys, but if a girl truly wants to fight and is trying to hurt me, I'll stop her just like I would a guy. Having taken martial arts, I learned quickly that girls can beat the piss out of you just as well as a guy can


Of course, different amounts of force are necessary for people of different toughness. On average, a girl will not be able to take as much force as a guy. Still, I prefer to judge each case individually. Averages mean little to the individual, in this sort of situation.

I have an ex who once told me, "If you can hit like a man, you can take a hit like a man." I laughed in her face (which she did NOT like), because she was 110 lbs soaking wet and carrying a brick in each hand, and stood at like 5'4". :smallamused: At the time I weighed in at ~350 lbs, and was 6" 1/2". There was no way. So yeah, threat analysis goes a long way.

*NOTE* Yeah, I know, martial arts go a long way to leveling the playing field, but they can only do so much. In my experience, physical size does make a difference; again, your mileage may vary, and this isn't the place to get into it about martial arts.


Nope, I don't discriminate between hitting girls and guys. However, the stereotype that you shouldn't hit girls has worked in my favour once before. (Guy being a bastard in class, [as usual. Despite people telling him to bugger off and leave me be] I slap him, people laugh at him because he got owned by the geeky girl; teacher "Didn't see a thing"). So while I don't think it's right, I do like the stereotype, and I will if there is an absolute need abuse the stereotype so as to sort out the situation.

:smallyuk: <---- All I'm going to say on that one.

[Copacetic]

Nope, I don't discriminate between hitting girls and guys. However, the stereotype that you shouldn't hit girls has worked in my favour once before. (Guy being a bastard in class, [as usual. Despite people telling him to bugger off and leave me be] I slap him, people laugh at him because he got owned by the geeky girl; teacher "Didn't see a thing"). So while I don't think it's right, I do like the stereotype, and I will if there is an absolute need abuse the stereotype so as to sort out the situation.


If one of the menfolk had given a girl the ole backhand, he would, ironically, be called sexist and an abuser. Also had assault charges pressed. As others have pointed out, local law enforcement tends to frown on men fisticuffing women. Now, please women-posters-of-giantitp don't tear me apart for this, but if someone smaller and weaker than you, like, say, a 12 year old, came swinging, how many of you would slug the kiddies lights out?

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Something to prove? What an intruiging statement. Do expand.
I knew someone would pick up on that:


I assume he means that the woman in question imagines him to be sexist so that she can feel superior. In essence, a person that just wants to be argumentative for the sake of being an ass.
Yes, that's generally what I meant. My primary experiences of feminism are largely comprised of this.

[SDF]

I playfully hit my female friends all the time. Usually after they hit me in a similar fashion. If it ever came down to a moral dilemma about hitting a woman, I'm probably just going to call the police.

[SaintRidley]

Now, please women-posters-of-giantitp don't tear me apart for this, but if someone smaller and weaker than you, like, say, a 12 year old, came swinging, how many of you would slug the kiddies lights out?

Pick them up by the scruff of the neck (or some grabbable portion of their clothing, and spin around a few times so they get dizzy and then set them off and walk away.

They're generally small enough that that's still an option.

[Lillith]

IMO I think the general rule should be that you don't hit anybody. Not a man and not a woman. Self defense however is a different case. If you have to fend for yourself I think you should hit/slap/kick whoever it is, man, woman, misc it's self defense and they started it.

[Coidzor]

If one of the menfolk had given a girl the ole backhand, he would, ironically, be called sexist and an abuser. Also had assault charges pressed. As others have pointed out, local law enforcement tends to frown on men fisticuffing women. Now, please women-posters-of-giantitp don't tear me apart for this, but if someone smaller and weaker than you, like, say, a 12 year old, came swinging, how many of you would slug the kiddies lights out?

Offhand, I'd probably either use my superior reach to shove him away from me and down towards the floor or acquire control of one then both of the afore-mentioned limbs and keep them from lashing at me with them or acquiring a weapon with them.

[Blue Ghost]

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever been tempted to hit a girl. I think girls are just easier for me to get along with than guys.

[VanBuren]

If one of the menfolk had given a girl the ole backhand, he would, ironically, be called sexist and an abuser. Also had assault charges pressed. As others have pointed out, local law enforcement tends to frown on men fisticuffing women. Now, please women-posters-of-giantitp don't tear me apart for this, but if someone smaller and weaker than you, like, say, a 12 year old, came swinging, how many of you would slug the kiddies lights out?

No, because I think I could restrain a 12-year old without punching him out. Same goes if I'm fighting a woman who is significantly weaker than me, or a man who is significantly weaker than me.

Which is the whole point. It's not that you shouldn't strike women in self-defense, it's that you shouldn't slug out people who are significantly weaker than you if you can restrain them less forcefully. Likewise, if that's a really stupid option because the opponent is stronger than you, then regardless of gender, you have the right to protect yourself in whatever way you reasonably think is necessary.

[Willis888]

It's never alright to hit anyone.

Nor is it alright to allow yourself to be hit.

With that as your guide, be reasonable.

[Malfunctioned]

The answer for me is absolutely never.

Of course, I have the exact same answer if I was to hit a man.

I may playfully hit people in jest but I absolutely abhor actual violence, sparring and stuff like that is perfectly fine and I quite enjoy the sword-fighting with my friends but actual violence is something I hate.

[Zevox]

No, because I think I could restrain a 12-year old without punching him out. Same goes if I'm fighting a woman who is significantly weaker than me, or a man who is significantly weaker than me.

Which is the whole point. It's not that you shouldn't strike women in self-defense, it's that you shouldn't slug out people who are significantly weaker than you if you can restrain them less forcefully. Likewise, if that's a really stupid option because the opponent is stronger than you, then regardless of gender, you have the right to protect yourself in whatever way you reasonably think is necessary.
Precisely. Arguing that women are usually weaker than men and whatnot is beside the point, since if the woman in question falls into that category, she's not enough of a threat to warrant hitting, which makes the self-defense unnecessary. The same would be true of a man in that situation.

It's up to you to rationally determine what level of force is necessary to defend yourself against someone if they attempt to attack you, regardless of the assailant's sex. Thus, you hit a woman in the same situations where you would hit a man - when there is enough of a threat to you to make it necessary to defend yourself that way. Simple as that.

Zevox

[FoE]

I think it's generally accepted that if a woman is trying to kill or maim you, it's all right to use an appropriate amount of force to defend yourself.

But would I hit a woman as readily as I'd hit a man? Hell no.

Obviously, circumstances play a part in it. But I have the "PROTECT THE FEMALES, FOR I AM AN EXPENDABLE MALE AND THUS OF NOMINAL IMPORTANCE TO MAINTAINING OUR POPULATION" instinct that most guys do. That's not sexism, that's biology.

Despite my laughs, I still laughed at this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9fbIFMAIrQ) from Way of the Gun. So, you know, I'm a terrible person.

[Knaight]

Precisely. Arguing that women are usually weaker than men and whatnot is beside the point, since if the woman in question falls into that category, she's not enough of a threat to warrant hitting, which makes the self-defense unnecessary. The same would be true of a man in that situation.

Exactly. Sex is irrelevant, in self defense one should do whats necessary, and if someone is significantly weaker, smaller, etc then not much is going to be necessary.

[ChameleonX11]

I'd have to go with MountainKing on this. When 90% of the population around you is smaller and weaker, fights aren't an option. People will get hurt too easily, regardless of gender.

The basic rule I use is that they can hit/slap/kick me as much as they want, I won't fight back until they actually hurt me or it seems like its getting to that point very quickly. Guys have a tendancy to get to that point first, so thats all i've tested against. Having them hurt themselves when they kick your shins among other things is nice though.

The only expception to this rule is my little sister however. She has gone as far as too stab me in the eye, spartan style, after I beat her in a game of pool. Even after that, I just can't bring myself to hit my little sister.:smallannoyed: Does anyone else have that problem?

[Malfunctioned]

The basic rule I use is that they can hit/slap/kick me as much as they want, I won't fight back until they actually hurt me or it seems like its getting to that point very quickly. Guys have a tendancy to get to that point first, so thats all i've tested against. Having them hurt themselves when they kick your shins among other things is nice though.


I may not be big but I can definitely agree with this. I seem to have very hard bones and also seem to be somewhat resistant to pain. So I come into situations like this.

*friend headbutts me*
Friend: OW! *recoils in pain*
Me: And what have we learnt? Again?
Friend: That you have a very hard head?
Me: Aaand?
Friend: Next time I should go for a groin shot?
Me: Perfect.


Yeah....
It's quite fun.

[ChameleonX11]

I may not be big but I can definitely agree with this. I seem to have very hard bones and also seem to be somewhat resistant to pain. So I come into situations like this.

*friend headbutts me*
Friend: OW! *recoils in pain*
Me: And what have we learnt? Again?
Friend: That you have a very hard head?
Me: Aaand?
Friend: Next time I should go for a groin shot?
Me: Perfect.


Yeah....
It's quite fun.

You see. I'm that, but with padding for my more vulnerable areas. :smallbiggrin:

[Bongos]

A woman would have to have a weapon and be trying to seriously hurt, maim or kill me before I would strike her.

I've had women strike me with intent and anger before and I have never hit back.

[LordOMud]

Quick answer: Never.

[Morph Bark]

FEMALES, FOR I AM AN EXPENDABLE MALE AND THUS OF NOMINAL IMPORTANCE TO MAINTAINING OUR POPULATION" instinct that most guys do. That's not sexism, that's biology.

See now if the global human population would be below a million and men would be the majority by some margin of sorts, I'd agree. But in a world where there is twice as many humans than the earth really can handle the way we're going about? Bad way of logicking. :smalltongue:


Of the people I've come to blows with... I think it's mostly been siblings and best friends (or rather, people who later became my best friends). Whenever it was a bully they would quit after I seriously fought back. And if we're talking about face-shots... only one time that I can remember, which was a slap right across the face of a friend I got into a heated argument with. He left for a bit and then came back 20 minutes later, after which we made up.

[Coidzor]

Friend: Next time I should go for a groin shot?
Me: Perfect.


Yeah....
It's quite fun.

Getting kicked in the genitalia is fun for you? :smallconfused:

[Malfunctioned]

Getting kicked in the genitalia is fun for you? :smallconfused:

Nope, having such hard bones that the only place my friends can really injure me easily without themselves getting hurt being my groin entertains me. I just try to educate them.

[KenderWizard]

Yes, that's generally what I meant. My primary experiences of feminism are largely comprised of this.

Goading someone into saying something pseudo-sexist isn't feminism, it's being manipulative. Lots of people these days have been given a bad view of feminism because it's so much easier to remember the girl going "Did you DARE to hold that door open for me?!" because she's crazy and loud than it is to remember how different things used to be and how the average feminist is probably your mom. (I don't know any of your mothers, but mine definitely is, and my kids' mom will be too! :smallsmile:)

You can look at the hitting thing either way: it's discriminating against men because it assumes the man will always be the aggressor, the bully, the abuser, but why does society assume that? The other side of the coin reads that society assumes the woman is weak and useless, always the victim. That's sexist too. The cops assume the man hit the woman, because they think the woman is a passive victim. That works fine for the woman today if she gets off without a charge, but it doesn't say much for decades of campaigns for equality either!

[Coidzor]

Nope, having such hard bones that the only place my friends can really injure me easily without themselves getting hurt being my groin entertains me. I just try to educate them.

Curious that this is both regular enough to be a thing and also that you'd want to educate them to hit you in that area.

Cultural drift is weird.

[Johel]

I always refrained from hitting girls (or smaller people. Not that I'm tall but whatever) because it didn't feel fair.
I did throw a rather direct punch at a girl once, though.
It was in 4th grade, I was 9.

Bitch was making fun of me in a rather humiliating fashion after I tripped.
Well... My angry look as I closed the distance was not enough to make her understand she should not have said the next line.
"Oh !! He's going to cry, now ?"
Well, I did, emotion and stuff.
But so did she.
Not a word, just a fist that rose and go strait for the mouth.
The look of shock and pain on her face did cheer me up.
Teachers told me that "boys must not hit girls".
I corrected silently : "shouldn't".:smallamused:

To put it simply :

You are not suppose to hit a girl or a weaker boy.
That's called honor (and empathy) :
If it represents no physical threath, you don't have to use physical violence.
You will feel ashame if you do and it wasn't "right".
(or you won't but then, that's moral dissonance)

And a girl (or weaker boy) is not suppose to act in a way that could trigger an rather impulsive answer from you.
That's called common sense :
Don't taunt Cthulhu.

Now, just listen to your guts : they know when it's ok and when it's not.

[Spiryt]

Nope, having such hard bones that the only place my friends can really injure me easily without themselves getting hurt being my groin entertains me. I just try to educate them.

Uh, professional fighters can injure themselves on people's bones... Doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of places that can be easily injured no matter how hard bones are....

Anyway the point is, as mentioned, that there would be really rarely point to hit most of the girls in the first place.

Fists, and other attacks that can be expected, are usually very ineffective in case of 'average Joe', and if average Joe is a woman, this would be even more visible.

I was walking down the street once with two friends, and was assaulted by the 6 -7 people group of retarded or whatever guys, who were seeking some brawl at freaking 4 pm.

I was punched straight to the eye by one of them, and only thing that happened was about 48 hours of worse vision and a bit of colors.

I managed to run away without any problems.

The point is that majority of humans, aren't explosive/talented/trained enough to seriously harm people with low amount of strikes.

Most of injuries and death in brawls happens when things escalate, and somebody is getting seriously clobbered, stomped, etc.

If you're assaulted like that, fighting back isn't best option, but as mentioned, if striking back can help you, any sane person should strike, whether he must strike man, woman, pope or catgirl.

Then comes the problem, when girl could hurt you by pushing you against the trash bin, or one of 384 such situations, when anybody can possibly hurt you. But then, there's usually high possibility, than in such pushing, chaotic situations, hitting someone isn't anyway very good thing to do.

Then comes the mentioned issue of law problem with girls, whether they wer dangerous or not.
And, also mentioned, that best way of using your greater strength and muscle mass would be actually holding and restraining.

So in short, there would be generally situations when minimal violence is the best, and situations when it's anyone matter of absolute survival when it comes to hitting girls - like being ambushed by a girl with lead pipe or whatever - as woman muggers aren't so unheard of, at least here.

[Phaedra]

Yes, that's generally what I meant. My primary experiences of feminism are largely comprised of this.

Well, having never seen any of the precise instances, I wouldn't like to comment on whether the lasses who ranted at you were wrong or right. But one person's chivalry is another's sexism. What level of feminism is too much? If you pull a chair out for me and I ask you not to because you wouldn't do so for a man, do I have "something to prove"?

Edit@ \/ It is possible to ask someone not to do something in a polite manner without it being some kind of explosive rant. This is what I meant - is that also classed as crazy feminism?

[Coidzor]

Eh, it'd be nice to see some appropriate prioritization. And anger management courses being attended. When someone holding the door open is enough to trigger an explosive outburst, that's just facepalm.

There's also the bit of jarring clashes of expectation when something intended as either a friendly gesture or something that one didn't even realize one was doing but would be filed under "inocuous" gets a "you rude *" response, creating an undercurrent of hostility where before there was conviviality.

Also the implied assumption/accusation that the act is being done merely out of sexual desire for the speaker or in an active attempt to bed the speaker, dehumanizing the actor by reducing him to a sexual organ and with implicit demonization of sex and sexual desire like sex is immoral and it is somehow wrong to desire it.

[FoE]

See now if the global human population would be below a million and men would be the majority by some margin of sorts, I'd agree.

I refer more to the instincts ingrained in us during the primeval days of knuckle-dragging monkey-men. When there were, oh, a couple million humans across the entire planet, survival depended greatly on numbers and thus women were more important to maintaining our miniscule population. The men were only really integral to the initial stage of the breeding process; afterwards, they're only good for hunting or sabretooth tiger chow.

Those instincts — the ones that also make us yawn when one person yawns and consider breasts to be totally awesome — are still ingrained in us, whether we like it or not.

[Giggling Ghast]

Those instincts — the ones that also make us yawn when one person yawns and consider breasts to be totally awesome — are still ingrained in us, whether we like it or not.

Woman smell good. Soft.

[Cahokia]

In my opinion, it's never alright to hit anyone. I generally try to act chivalrous, but that's just because I grew up on Arthur and Quixote, I barely have a choice in the matter. Conditioning and all that.

I took tang soo do for about 10 years and boxed for 5, but the only thing I'd use from either are guards. My personal stance on violence mirrors Gandhi's:


The strength to kill is not essential for self-defence; one ought to have the strength to die. When a man is fully ready to die, he will not even desire to offer violence. Indeed, I may put it down as a self-evident proposition that the desire to kill is in inverse proportion to the desire to die. And history is replete with instances of men who, by dying with courage and compassion on their lips, converted the hearts of their violent opponents.

My stance is that it is better to be hurt than to hurt.

[John Cribati]

... No offense to Gandhi, but that seems kind of selfish. Gandhi did the nonviolence to bring something about (Indian independence from Britain, IIRC). However, if somebody is trying to injure me in any way, I am not going to just take it, leaving my family to pay my medical/funeral bills.

On a related note (not to Gandhi, to the general thread), I do a lot of play-fighting, and the girls in my are are more rough than you'd expect them to be. I've brought it up to them several times that if I'm seriously fighting a girl, exactly where it would be appropriate to... well, hit them. I mean, generally speaking, If I want to end the fight without injuring them too badly (apparently I don't know my strength or something), would it be acceptable to go for the chest? I don't want "sexual harassment" slapped onto the "assault" charge I'd already brought upon myself.

[Knaight]

If your concern is law enforcement, then it depends highly on the local law enforcement, laws, etc. As far as injury, a hit to the chest is going to do far less damage than one to the head or abdomen, there is a rib cage in the way of any important internal organs, where the kidneys or whatever are less protected. The head is even worse, head injuries are always risky, due to brain damage, the amount of blood loss expected for cuts on the head, etc. there are very few places on the head that can be hit without worry for permanent damage, if there are any at all.

That said, if you have the option pins and such are probably better than strikes anyways.

[Admiral Squish]

The way I was taught the rule, you never hit a lady. But if she hits first, she's not a lady.
That being said, I still have a very difficult time fighting or hurting girls. I believe it's been mentioned before, but holds and pins are much less guilt-inducing. If absolutely necessary, I end up going for one-hit takedowns. Vital points like the solar plexus or a throat-jab.

[Cahokia]

... No offense to Gandhi, but that seems kind of selfish. Gandhi did the nonviolence to bring something about (Indian independence from Britain, IIRC). However, if somebody is trying to injure me in any way, I am not going to just take it, leaving my family to pay my medical/funeral bills.

I'm sure Gandhi doesn't mind. :smallwink: I don't agree with some of his teachings myself. If someone is trying to injure me in some way, I'm going to try and stop violence without causing it myself, but if I cannot stop them, then yes, I will "just take it." If their act of violence would kill me, and I could not stop it without inciting violence myself, then so be it. No action is unselfish, and if I cannot stop destruction in the world I will at least not add to it. That is more important to me than currency, and I'm certain my family would understand.

[Knaight]

The way I was taught the rule, you never hit a lady. But if she hits first, she's not a lady.

I would consider "don't hit anyone unless they hit you" universal. Escalating a situation from words to violence should never be done, but keeping up with a situation that escalated is just fine. If one can drag it back down instead, even better.

[FoE]

I've brought it up to them several times that if I'm seriously fighting a girl, exactly where it would be appropriate to... well, hit them.

Try poking them in the back of their knee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle1i6llk4q). :smalltongue:

[Worira]

In my opinion, it's never alright to hit anyone. I generally try to act chivalrous, but that's just because I grew up on Arthur and Quixote, I barely have a choice in the matter. Conditioning and all that.

Uh... What? In no Arthurian legends was Arthur ever a pacifist, nor did the chivalric code advocate pacifism. In fact, it tended rather more toward "be polite when stabbing people. P.S. heathens don't count." than "don't hit anyone ever". And I'm not sure how you managed to absorb chivalric values from a book mocking them.

[Em Blackleaf]

I personally believe it is never okay to hit anyone unless they're attacking you. I also, personally, would be hardly capable of defending myself. So don't hit me... I bruise easily.

So, it only makes sense, if someone (male OR female) is hitting you, hit them back/block yourself in self-defense (because it would go against our life-preserving instincts and our logic to do otherwise :smalltongue:).

Just don't start fights. No matter how mad you are, whether the target is male or female, don't lash out physically. That causes more problems than it solves. I don't know if you'd feel better, but one needs to control their emotions. Because hitting someone is assault and it's not nice. :smalltongue:

So anyway, I never understood violence. It's so unnecessary.

And I don't particularly like the, "never hit a lady" thing. As I said, it should be "never hit anyone (unless they hit first)". It should all seem just as awful no matter who's hitting whom.

[FoE]

So anyway, I never understood violence. It's so unnecessary.

Because it's fun! :smallbiggrin:

[SMEE]

The Rainbow mod: The discussion on this thread is delving too close on real world politics, with all that law talk.
Thread locked.