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Salbazier
2010-10-10, 11:06 AM
I love blasting spells, blame it on my video games background if you want. I know its weak, but still.

So, I have Two questions:

First, how to make a blaster that effective in play with official materials?

Second, is there any good homebrew out there that fix evocation somewhat?

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 11:07 AM
As a blaster it's generally best to stick with Conjuration rather than Evocation. The Orb of Fire/etc. series of spells are particularly nice. For an optimized blaster, google the Mailman Sorceror.

Marnath
2010-10-10, 11:16 AM
If you want to hombrew evocation to be better at blasting, making the orb series of spells evocations would help with that and in my opinion is what they should be anyway: it makes no sense for them to be instantaneous conjurations, how is a sphere of lightning non-magical enough to enter an AMF for example?

herrhauptmann
2010-10-10, 11:25 AM
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=5890
Build was made a few years ago, could probably be optimized further.

Last Laugh
2010-10-10, 11:25 AM
For me sneak attack makes evocation much better. Invisibility/grave strike/vine strike/golem strike (SC all) let you reliably sneak attack everything
Hunter's Eye gives you CL/3 d6 sneak attack (sweeet)
Unseen Seer, and spellwarp sniper both boost sneak attack aaaaaaaaaand full spellcasting.

Unseen seer (CMage) gives you +1d6 precision damage (sneak attack or skimish) at 1, 4, 7, and 10. bonus divination spells (most of those handy sneak attack spells are divination on the ranger/assassin/blackguard spell lists)

Beyond that spell thief gives you sneak attack, master spellthief(cadv) adds spellthief levels to sorc/wizard/whathave you and lets you steal spell slots from enemy casters. I believe it stacks w/ practiced caster.

IT is more than reasonable to have an invisible flying wizard throwing around 15d6 Orbs of fire + 12d6 sneak attack against golems.


An alternate route is shadow craft mage (races of stone, gnome only). arcane thesis silent image (reduces mm costs) and incantrix (FoE) 10.
convert silent images to scorching ray/splinter bolt. add every metamagic feat you can get (invisible-2, twin+2?, split+1, empower
+0, maximize+1, energy substitution(carc or cmage)-2) which gives you +0 metamagic costs.

something like 4*15*9(how lazy can I be, eh?) and you can still have a tasty +6d6 sneak attack on each (HUNTER EYE!!!) forgot to mention
in this case your spells can actually become more real than.... reality? quasireality confuses me but I think they take more damage if they disbelieve

Incontrol88
2010-10-10, 12:11 PM
I'm running a pretty blast-o-rific Eldritch Theurge right now. You can use the feat Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane pg. 181) to get away with only one level in Sorcerer, followed by 4 levels of Warlock to get enough skill ranks for ET.

Since ET advances both spellcasting and invocations, you're basically the equivalent of a Sorcerer 6/Warlock 9 by level 10 with 5 levels in ET. Spellblasting Fireball or Fireburst spells has gotten me pretty impressive damage.

I'll probably post my build later today actually since I'm looking for Feat/Invocation advice on it.

Radar
2010-10-10, 12:29 PM
(...)
An alternate route is shadow craft mage (races of stone, gnome only). arcane thesis silent image (reduces mm costs) and incantrix (FoE) 10.
convert silent images to scorching ray/splinter bolt. add every metamagic feat you can get (invisible-2, twin+2?, split+1, empower
+0, maximize+1, energy substitution(carc or cmage)-2) which gives you +0 metamagic costs.

something like 4*15*9(how lazy can I be, eh?) and you can still have a tasty +6d6 sneak attack on each (HUNTER EYE!!!) forgot to mention
in this case your spells can actually become more real than.... reality? quasireality confuses me but I think they take more damage if they disbelieve
The best part about the Shadowcraft Mage is that you are an immenlsy versatile spelcaster - you prepare Silent Image and change it into almost any Evocation or Conjuration spell on the fly. With some more optimisation (Earth Spell - requires you to be a gnome) you can even throw 9th level spells from 8th level slots. Cherry on the cake: Miracle is an Evocation spell. :smallbiggrin:

Last Laugh
2010-10-10, 12:42 PM
5$ says that most shadowcraft mages are gnomes anyways :P
And if you are using shadowcraft mage for evocation your dm might not get angry for playing a tier 0^^

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-10-10, 12:48 PM
If you want to hombrew evocation to be better at blasting, making the orb series of spells evocations would help with that and in my opinion is what they should be anyway: it makes no sense for them to be instantaneous conjurations, how is a sphere of lightning non-magical enough to enter an AMF for example?
In fluff, itís a matter of methodology. Whereas evocation creates magical energy, conjuration simply summons a non-magical energy from somewhere before it gets hurled without any magic left for the field to affect. Just some mundane fire or acid.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-10, 01:46 PM
Effective Evocation: Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm).

Seatbelt
2010-10-10, 02:08 PM
What spells would you use for blasting if your DM is like mine and HATES the orb spells?

KellKheraptis
2010-10-10, 02:17 PM
What spells would you use for blasting if your DM is like mine and HATES the orb spells?

Sculpted Chained Widened Hail of Stone, with as many status effects as possible crammed on it. Now ask the DM how awesome it was to actually have a chance of his BBEG's making the save vs daze or your character missing the ranged touch attack.

Hail of Stone is SR No/No Save. Reserves of Strength to remove the damage cap, and then play the DM's shtick of "rocks fall, everyone dies!"

Last Laugh
2010-10-10, 02:19 PM
Scorching ray. wings of flurry (RoTD). not certain if they are honest evocation spells, but they blast good.

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 02:26 PM
Sculpted Chained Widened Hail of Stone, with as many status effects as possible crammed on it. Now ask the DM how awesome it was to actually have a chance of his BBEG's making the save vs daze or your character missing the ranged touch attack.

Hail of Stone is SR No/No Save. Reserves of Strength to remove the damage cap, and then play the DM's shtick of "rocks fall, everyone dies!"

Hail of Stone doesn't specify a target. How are you Chaining it?

KellKheraptis
2010-10-10, 02:28 PM
Hail of Stone doesn't specify a target. How are you Chaining it?

Hmm...hadn't thought of that. Twinned it is, preferably cast en mass out of a fusion chain :) There, that works.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-10, 02:31 PM
What spells would you use for blasting if your DM is like mine and HATES the orb spells?

Melf's Acid Arrow.

Because it's just Orb of Acid with a slightly different effect.

Radar
2010-10-10, 02:36 PM
In fluff, itís a matter of methodology. Whereas evocation creates magical energy, conjuration simply summons a non-magical energy from somewhere before it gets hurled without any magic left for the field to affect. Just some mundane fire or acid.
Which doesn't make much sense fluff-wise and crunch-wise. Crunch: mundane fire is a flat 1d6 per round. Conjuration has enough good spells even without Orbs.
Fluff: ok you summoned a ball of elemental fire and throw it. How is it kept together without magic? How does it even work for sonic or force? It might make sense, if you would actually throw a tiny portal to the appropriate elemental plane, but then it would be blocked by the Antimagic Field anyway.

Obviously it's a matter of personal preference, but IMO Orbs should be Evocation.

And yes, Hail of Stone is hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-10, 02:38 PM
The perfectly mundane fire from the Plane of Fire is 3d6 per round.

The Great Wheel is not the real world. Its laws of physics are different. There totally exists mundane fire that does 5d6 damage, as well as totally nonmagical force that can be formed into balls and thrown at people.

Incontrol88
2010-10-10, 02:47 PM
Mundane fire can still vary as to temperature and intensity, so I suppose it being variable in damage makes sense. Also, I'm new to these forums so could somebody briefly explain "Fluff" and "Crunch" 'cause I'm seeing them everywhere!

Urpriest
2010-10-10, 02:48 PM
Mundane fire can still vary as to temperature and intensity, so I suppose it being variable in damage makes sense. Also, I'm new to these forums so could somebody briefly explain "Fluff" and "Crunch" 'cause I'm seeing them everywhere!

Crunch is rules, Fluff is...everything else. Descriptive content, roughly.

Godskook
2010-10-10, 02:57 PM
Look at a DragonFire Adept for all your blasting needs.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-10, 03:17 PM
I love blasting spells, blame it on my video games background if you want. I know its weak, but still.

So, I have Two questions:

First, how to make a blaster that effective in play with official materials?

Second, is there any good homebrew out there that fix evocation somewhat?

Grab a sorc. Trade the familiar out for usable metamagic. Learn the following: Wings of Flurry, Wings of Cover, Teleport. The rest of your spells are available for buffs and utility, at your discretion.

Grab lots of metamagic, and CL boosters. The exact details are unimportant, but Arcane Thesis(Wings of Flurry) is filled with obvious win, and enlarge spell is also filled with win. I'm also fond of quicken and twin, as you get higher. Take a prestige class. Anything that doesn't lose caster levels will do, but anything that provides additional CL for blasting, or additional buffs, or additional metamagic feats is a good choice.

Tactics: Teleport to encounter. Cast wings of flurry. Repeat.

Eloel
2010-10-10, 03:28 PM
Grab a sorc. Trade the familiar out for usable metamagic. Learn the following: Wings of Flurry, Wings of Cover, Teleport. The rest of your spells are available for buffs and utility, at your discretion.

Grab lots of metamagic, and CL boosters. The exact details are unimportant, but Arcane Thesis(Wings of Flurry) is filled with obvious win, and enlarge spell is also filled with win. I'm also fond of quicken and twin, as you get higher. Take a prestige class. Anything that doesn't lose caster levels will do, but anything that provides additional CL for blasting, or additional buffs, or additional metamagic feats is a good choice.

Tactics: Teleport to encounter. Cast wings of flurry. Repeat.
You forgot to mention Spellwarp Sniper.

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-10-10, 03:34 PM
Which doesn't make much sense fluff-wise and crunch-wise. Crunch: mundane fire is a flat 1d6 per round.
Mundane fire as from a torch is 1d6 per round. Kind of a low-temperature fire.


Conjuration has enough good spells even without Orbs.
That is a good enough game-design excuse with which I will not bother to argue. Iím just focusing on the fluff.


Fluff: ok you summoned a ball of elemental fire and throw it. How is it kept together without magic?
You summon a bit of fuel with it?


How does it even work for sonic or force?
Donít know enough physics to try to tackle sonic. And Iíd want to save the catgirls anyway.

But ďForceĒ is something totally made up by D&D. Just Ďcause most force effects require magic to maintain, doesnít mean all do. At least, it doesnít have to have magic retain it for more than the split second it reaches its target (see below).


It might make sense, if you would actually throw a tiny portal to the appropriate elemental plane, but then it would be blocked by the Antimagic Field anyway.
Maybe you are throwing a portal. A portal that, once created, stays open on its own without magic until it collapses naturally. And it just so happens that such portals are very unstable and tend to naturally collapse almost immediately.

Not as if there isnít precedent for non-magical planar portals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#deadMagic).

Tyndmyr
2010-10-10, 04:26 PM
You forgot to mention Spellwarp Sniper.

Nah, that's a raywizard build. Good, but the wings of flurry build isn't limited by such mundane things as number of targets and the like.

Im personally a fan of IoT7V, but it's a bit painful in terms of spells for a sorc to qualify.

Salbazier
2010-10-11, 06:49 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I've got some new build ideas. :smallsmile:

Totally agree on Orb should be evocation. Fluff... meh, fluff is mutable anyway and I don't quite see how energy spells match general conjuration fluff anyway.

So, aside from making orbs evocation (and banning shadow evoc line) what should be done to buff evocation?

Jan Mattys
2010-10-11, 07:01 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I've got some new build ideas. :smallsmile:

Totally agree on Orb should be evocation. Fluff... meh, fluff is mutable anyway and I don't quite see how energy spells match general conjuration fluff anyway.

So, aside from making orbs evocation (and banning shadow evoc line) what should be done to buff evocation?

Quick Question:
Do you want to make a Blastzard who is the equivalent of the Godly Batzard in terms of impact on encounters, or what?

Because it seems to me that Save or Die / Save or Suck / Battle Control wizards are broken, while a blasting wizard is more or less ok out of the box. Yes, it is an inefficient way to be a wizard, but it is a decent way to make a balanced character in a party.

So why are you asking how to buff one of the (few) builds where a wizard is not game breaking?
Remember: "Do not fix what is not broken" :smallsmile:

Psyx
2010-10-11, 07:07 AM
First, how to make a blaster that effective in play with official materials?
Second, is there any good homebrew out there that fix evocation somewhat?


Blasters ARE effective. They just get a lot of grief on forums because they aren't as 'optimal' as certain other types of caster.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing an Evoker and loading up on Fireball. You will be effective, and you will own-up in fights more than many/most/maybe all other party members. It's good. They work. They don't suck. You won't suck.

Fireball = 35 damage on average, at CR10. 5 Targets for a reasonably well-placed one = 175 points of damage in one combat round... say three targets save for half... That's still 120ish damage. Is the fighter and cleric doing that much? Probably not. And -in case people missed it- things die when they run out of hit points. Most monsters are killed by running out of hit points, rather than by status effects.

'Combust' is a 2nd level spell... touch attack (ranged with Spectral Hand). 45 damage at CR10, no save. That's not inconsequential, either. Do that every round in a tough fight, and you're probably pulling more of your weight than a lot of the other party members are.

Evoking doesn't really need fixing. It's just that some of the other schools are too good.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-11, 07:25 AM
But the thing is, it's much easier to deal 35 damage without using a spell slot. And by that level, 35 damage is nothing.

Okay, so you can deal 175 damage... spread out over 5 targets. This won't make any difference at CR10. You have wasted your turn.

Now, if you could deal 175 damage to one target, you'd be good.

If you cast Combust every round you'll run out of spell slots very quickly. The Fighter, meanwhile, is dealing 45 damage per swing of his sword without using any resources at all, except maybe some HP.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 08:14 AM
Well, consider that you need not wait till CR 10 to do such damage. One character I built recently, at level 6, had arcane thesis and fiery burst, resulting in 9d6 fireballs. At level 6, that is quite potent, and generally results in a lot of bodies. This wasn't exceptionally optimized, either. Just two handy feats, both of which have additional uses.

Blasting can be exceptionally good if you work on it.

Salbazier
2010-10-11, 08:19 AM
Well, what Jan and psyx said is true.. but it's like yuki akuma said. High end monsters have too much hp.
Maybe boosting the damage output a bit is fine? Like using higher dice for higher level spells or .

To be honest it doesn't matter that much, I'll play what I want even if it sucks big time and I've got pretty good blaster builds anyway. It just kinda grief me to the see treatment evocation received, support wise and forum wise.

random thouught:


things die when they run out of hit points.

LOL, this remind of a funny quote :smallbiggrin:

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 08:35 AM
Well, consider that almost any spell will generally do d6/level out of the box. The reason I prefer wings of flurry is that it lacks a damage cap, has a nice range around you, in which it targets EVERYTHING hostile. And it's force damage. The save or suck portion is just a bonus.

Now, which exact damage spells you prefer will vary depending on what you value, but in general, you should be able to pick one that has several nice things in addition to d6/level damage.

In additional to CL boosters, you've got the metamagic possibility. Say at level 10 you have a total of +3CL(easily accessible with two feats, one of which is arcane thesis), and know Empower(now a +1) and Enlarge(now a +0).

You can thus cast 13d6 *1.5 damage spell. This'll average 68.25 damage at level 10, which is hardly trivial for aoe damage.

Shortly afterward, you gain access to the Cl 12 version of craft magic tattoo, for an inexpensive +1 CL. Additional metamagic investment can continue to soup up your blasting as well. Remember, we only put three feats into boosting damage so far. At level 10, that's not terribly crazy.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-11, 08:42 AM
Bracers of the Entangling Blast. MiC. Make your fireballs entangle people too and suddenly you offer control.

Psyx
2010-10-11, 08:51 AM
High end monsters have too much hp.


Then use bigger spells than 2nd and 3rd level ones. Fireballs and Combusts are just very basic staples that aren't as useless as half the internet would have you believe. If you're CR 10+ and fighting high end monsters, then there are bigger blasts than fireballs.
[...Like twinned, empowered, maximised 180hp fireballs... :smallbiggrin: ]

35hp of damage each to a horde of 'chaff' monsters isn't small-fry. It's a chunk of their HP. It's nothing compared to what can be done by a blagged-out ubercharger or crazy frenzied berserker, but in the context of a normal, reasonably power game, a blaster evoker more than carries their weight.

Duke of URL
2010-10-11, 08:56 AM
How to make a blaster more effective? Arcane Thesis (and any other metamagic reducer you can get your hands on) and lots of metamagic.

Psyx
2010-10-11, 08:56 AM
LOL, this remind of a funny quote :smallbiggrin:


Well; it's true. Status effects are nice, but there comes a time in the fight where you need to take away the monster's HP to make it go bye-bye, so you can loot it. If the mage can do that by blowing stuff up in a manner that's more effective on party assets than having the tanks stand there and get punched in the face for three more combat rounds, then it's a good use of spells.

Battlefield control is great, but it alone does not win the fight. It is merely a tactical enabler. There is - and always will be - a need to kill stuff with spells that go 'boom'.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-11, 10:01 AM
LOL, this remind of a funny quote :smallbiggrin:

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/070/976/original/PEOPLE_DIE_IF_THEY_ARE_KILLED.jpg?1284052406 (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainObvious)


Battlefield control is great, but it alone does not win the fight. It is merely a tactical enabler. There is - and always will be - a need to kill stuff with spells that go 'boom'.

Wizards can go entire careers without making a single thing go boom, by disabling monsters and letting the Fighter chop them up for three rounds without getting punched in the face.

There is no need for Wizards to deal direct damage with their spells. If they want to there are enough optimisation options to make them okay at it, but it's not a requirement at all.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 10:04 AM
What? Fighters?

That would imply that in a party of four, you do not have four wizards. This confuses and frightens me.

Salbazier
2010-10-11, 10:06 AM
http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/070/976/original/PEOPLE_DIE_IF_THEY_ARE_KILLED.jpg?1284052406 (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainObvious)



I know you'll get it :smallbiggrin:

Amphetryon
2010-10-11, 10:26 AM
Blasters pair well with Cleave-happy melee types.

Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned one of the best Evocation spells: Streamers. It's in Shining South. Up to 20d10 damage to a target at a Touch, unless the target chooses to take no action once targeted. :smallcool:

Jan Mattys
2010-10-11, 10:31 AM
Wizards can go entire careers without making a single thing go boom, by disabling monsters and letting the Fighter chop them up for three rounds without getting punched in the face.

There is no need for Wizards to deal direct damage with their spells. If they want to there are enough optimisation options to make them okay at it, but it's not a requirement at all.

Ok, I know I'm opening a huge can of worms here, but...
Let's assume you're a young wizard. Let's assume you just turned lvl 7, so you're a young, very talented and powerful wizard. Your hands burn with magical energy,
Let's say you enter a magic shop, or the local mage guild, and the old man before you offers you either a save or suck spell that allows you fellow fighter to get all the glory, or a spell that lets you shoot deadly fire from your fingers.
Wouldn't you choose the latter over the first? :smallbiggrin:

Salbazier
2010-10-11, 10:34 AM
Blasters pair well with Cleave-happy melee types.

Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned one of the best Evocation spells: Streamers. It's in Shining South. Up to 20d10 damage to a target at a Touch, unless the target chooses to take no action once targeted. :smallcool:

Eh, nice spell. I think I've read about it somewhere but never bothered to look it up.


Ok, I know I'm opening a huge can of worms here, but...
Let's assume you're a young wizard. Let's assume you just turned lvl 7, so you're a young, very talented and powerful wizard. Your hands burn with magical energy,
Let's say you enter a magic shop, or the local mage guild, and the old man before you offers you either a save or suck spell that allows you fellow fighter to get all the glory, or a spell that lets you shoot deadly fire from your fingers.
Wouldn't you choose the latter over the first? :smallbiggrin:

The latter.

Then some elder wizard or the sort come along and preach to you about all the wonder of being a 'god' and how to be a 'proper' wizard. :smalltongue:

Jan Mattys
2010-10-11, 10:43 AM
...and you tell the old wizard to shut the hell up, he's old and feeble while you know all too well what real power is.

...then you grow older and wiser as you venture in the wilds.

That's why, roleplay-wise, you should get Magic Missile as lvl 1, Fireball as lvl 3, but Time Stop and Wail of the Banshee over over Meteor Swarm as lvl 9.

...and you spend your last days back at the local guild, preaching young and proud wizards about the wonder of being a "god" and how to be a "proper" wizard.

:smallbiggrin:

Amphetryon
2010-10-11, 10:52 AM
...and you tell the old wizard to shut the hell up, he's old and feeble while you know all too well what real power is.

...then you grow older and wiser as you venture in the wilds.

That's why, roleplay-wise, you should get Magic Missile as lvl 1, Fireball as lvl 3, but Time Stop and Wail of the Banshee over over Meteor Swarm as lvl 9.

...and you spend your last days back at the local guild, preaching young and proud wizards about the wonder of being a "god" and how to be a "proper" wizard.

:smallbiggrin:
That's only true if that's the sort of character you actually want to roleplay. "Should" implies that those that play it differently than suggested are doing it wrong.

Psyx
2010-10-11, 10:54 AM
Wizards can go entire careers without making a single thing go boom, by disabling monsters and letting the Fighter chop them up for three rounds without getting punched in the face.

And they could go an entire career without killing anything at all, sitting at home making wands. That's about as exciting. :smallbiggrin:

Evokers are a great way of playing a wizard without being a near-broken force which eclipses nearly everything else. You're still a massive force to be reckoned with, but you're seldom stamping all over the campaign, as many other types of wizard do too easily.

Jan Mattys
2010-10-11, 10:57 AM
That's only true if that's the sort of character you actually want to roleplay. "Should" implies that those that play it differently than suggested are doing it wrong.

In case you didn't notice, I put a ":smallbiggrin:" in the end.
Was just joking, running along what salbazier said :smallsmile:

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-10-11, 10:59 AM
That's only true if that's the sort of character you actually want to roleplay.
Indeed. Some wizards just never learn. :smallbiggrin:

And role-play-wise: The rate most characters seem to gain XP doesnít leave much time for wising up anyway. The power just comes too quickly.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 11:01 AM
Agreed. I see it as likely that young hotshot gnomish mcWizard rolls back into town a few months later, bragging that the silly old feeble wizards giving advice haven't accomplished anything at all, while blasting has made him like unto a tiny, wrathful god of destruction.

Jan Mattys
2010-10-11, 11:09 AM
Agreed. I see it as likely that young hotshot gnomish mcWizard rolls back into town a few months later, bragging that the silly old feeble wizards giving advice haven't accomplished anything at all, while blasting has made him like unto a tiny, wrathful god of destruction.

Enters Marty McFighter, the old but still handsome partner of the old feeble wizard and legendary hero, having slain countless dragons while they were entangled, dazed, or unconscious.

"You know nothing about true power!" he cries. He then charges forward, waiting for his old pal to turn the gnome into a frog he can just cut in half.

Sadly, MrOldMan is having prostate problems and is nowhere to be seen. Too late does Marty realize his mistake. Suddenly everything becomes very, VERY hot.

All that's left is a burned armor and some ashes, while the gnomish blaster walks past the crossroads and into the first tavern he sees.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-11, 11:13 AM
And they could go an entire career without killing anything at all, sitting at home making wands. That's about as exciting. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, casting blasting spells that do nothing but deal damage is incredibly boring.

See, I can state my opinions as objective fact too!

Uncertainty
2010-10-11, 11:19 AM
Actually, casting blasting spells that do nothing but deal damage is incredibly boring.

See, I can state my opinions as objective fact too!

I think that the ":smallbiggrin:" was meant to imply that his statement was in jest.

Keld Denar
2010-10-11, 11:34 AM
Empower Spell + Scorching Ray (12d6 at CL8, 18d6 at CL12) can leave a pretty big mark for a 4th level spell. Certainly better damage-wise than Wings of Flurry would produce at that moment vs a single target. And when you get 6th level spells, you can Empower Wings of Flurry too!

Psyx
2010-10-11, 11:37 AM
See, I can state my opinions as objective fact too!


You already did. Right near the bottom of page 1.

The difference is that I was joking.