BlackLamb
2010-10-22, 08:49 PM
Hi everyone.
I cut my teeth on 2nd edition D&D and while I like a lot of the 3.X innovations to the game, I still prefer flow and relative power levels of my beloved 2nd ed. I've made a few houserules to bridge the systems and thought I'd share them here for some possible feedback. First the chassis...
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort/Will Save|Ref Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th
1st|+0|+2|
+0|Domain|3|1+1
2nd|+1|+3|
+0|-|4|2+1|-
3rd|+2|+3|
+1|-|5|2+1|1+1|-
4th|+2|+4|
+1|Turn or Rebuke Undead|6|3+1|2+1|-|-
5th|+3|+4|
+1|-|6|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-
6th|+4|+5|
+2|-|6|4+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-
7th|+4|+5|
+2|-|6|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
8th|+5|+6|
+2|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
9th|+6/+1|+6|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
10th|+6/+1|+7|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
11th|+7/+2|+7|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
12th|+8/+3|+8|
+4|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
13th|+8/+3|+8|
+4|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
14th|+9/+4|+9|
+4|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
15th|+10/+5|+9|
+5|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
16th|+10/+5|+10|
+5|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
17th|
+11/+6/+6|+10|
+5|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
18th|
+12/+7/+7|+11|
+6|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
19th|
+12/+7/+7|+11|
+6|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1
20th|
+13/+8/+8|+12|
+6|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1[/table]
As you can see this Cleric is a little less front-loaded than standard 3.X. I think this is more in the spirit of the 3.X innovations of making gaining levels matter.
The next thing you'll notice is BAB progression is 2/3 instead of 3/4 which is keeping in line with 2nd edition. I also made both iterative attacks highest BAB -5, because again I think it's more in keeping with making gaining levels matter.
I futzed a little with the spell progression because at the level you get 5+1 spells per level you don't care about those spell levels, but I accelerated when you get 4+1 spells per level because you do still care about spell levels 2 lower than your highest. And I like that it brings Clerics and Wizards closer in line with each other.
Domains: Clerics start with one domain and gain additional domains at levels 8, 12, 16, 20. Your domain spell is a choice from 3 spells per domain at spell levels 1-3, 2 spells per domain at spell levels 4-6, and 1 spell per domain at spell levels 7-9. I've shrunk the cleric general spell list down and expanded the domain spell lists to make them more like 2nd edition spheres.
Turn Undead: 3.X turning is awful. It's too good at low levels and worthless at mid to high levels. So I updated the 2nd edition turn undead table to make use of some 3.Xisms. I also made turning undead primarily a paldin ability and have clerics turn or rebuke undead as a paladin three levels lower.
LEVEL OF PALADIN
{table=head]-|1|2-3|4-5|6|7-8|9-10|11|12-13|14-15|16|17-18|19+
1- HD|
15|
15|
15|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*|D*|D*
2 HD|
18|
18|
18|18|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*|D*
3-4 HD|
21|
21|
21|21|21|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*
5 HD|
24|
24|
24|24|24|24|T|T|D|D|D*|D*
6 HD|
25|
25|
25|25|25|25|25|T|T|D|D|D*
7 HD|
-|
27|
27|27|27|27|27|27|T|T|D|D
8 HD|
-|
-|
29|29|29|29|29|29|29|T|T|D
9 HD|
-|
-|
-|30|30|30|30|30|30|30|T|T
10 HD|
-|
-|
-|-|33|33|33|33|33|33|33|T
11-12 HD|
-|
-|
-|-|-|35|35|35|35|35|35|35
13-14 HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|36|36|36|36|36|36
15-16 HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|38|38|38|38|38
17+HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|-|40|40|40|40
[/table]
* An additional 1d4 + (cha modifier) creatures of this type are turned.
Frequency: You may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + (cha modifier). You may only make one attempt per encounter.
Range: 60 feet
Turning Check: Roll 1d20 and add your paladin level and charisma modifier. Compare that number to the above table to determine what hit die of undead you can effect. A T indicates that a creature of that hit die is turned regardless of roll and a D indicates that a creature of that hit die is dispelled.
Number Turned: 1d6+(paladin level)+(cha modifier). Lowest hit die are effected first.
Duration: Turned undead flee from you by the best and fastest means available to them. They flee for 10 rounds (1 minute). If they cannot flee, they cower (giving any attack rolls against them a +2 bonus). If you approach within 10 feet of them, however, they overcome being turned and act normally. (You can stand within 10 feet without breaking the turning effect, you just can’t approach them.) You can attack them with ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away), and others can attack them in any fashion, without breaking the turning effect.
To follow will be a revised Cleric / Domain spell list that I especially would like a critique of.
I cut my teeth on 2nd edition D&D and while I like a lot of the 3.X innovations to the game, I still prefer flow and relative power levels of my beloved 2nd ed. I've made a few houserules to bridge the systems and thought I'd share them here for some possible feedback. First the chassis...
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort/Will Save|Ref Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th
1st|+0|+2|
+0|Domain|3|1+1
2nd|+1|+3|
+0|-|4|2+1|-
3rd|+2|+3|
+1|-|5|2+1|1+1|-
4th|+2|+4|
+1|Turn or Rebuke Undead|6|3+1|2+1|-|-
5th|+3|+4|
+1|-|6|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-
6th|+4|+5|
+2|-|6|4+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-
7th|+4|+5|
+2|-|6|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
8th|+5|+6|
+2|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
9th|+6/+1|+6|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
10th|+6/+1|+7|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
11th|+7/+2|+7|
+3|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
12th|+8/+3|+8|
+4|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
13th|+8/+3|+8|
+4|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
14th|+9/+4|+9|
+4|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
15th|+10/+5|+9|
+5|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
16th|+10/+5|+10|
+5|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
17th|
+11/+6/+6|+10|
+5|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1
18th|
+12/+7/+7|+11|
+6|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1
19th|
+12/+7/+7|+11|
+6|-|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|3+1
20th|
+13/+8/+8|+12|
+6|Domain|6|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1|4+1[/table]
As you can see this Cleric is a little less front-loaded than standard 3.X. I think this is more in the spirit of the 3.X innovations of making gaining levels matter.
The next thing you'll notice is BAB progression is 2/3 instead of 3/4 which is keeping in line with 2nd edition. I also made both iterative attacks highest BAB -5, because again I think it's more in keeping with making gaining levels matter.
I futzed a little with the spell progression because at the level you get 5+1 spells per level you don't care about those spell levels, but I accelerated when you get 4+1 spells per level because you do still care about spell levels 2 lower than your highest. And I like that it brings Clerics and Wizards closer in line with each other.
Domains: Clerics start with one domain and gain additional domains at levels 8, 12, 16, 20. Your domain spell is a choice from 3 spells per domain at spell levels 1-3, 2 spells per domain at spell levels 4-6, and 1 spell per domain at spell levels 7-9. I've shrunk the cleric general spell list down and expanded the domain spell lists to make them more like 2nd edition spheres.
Turn Undead: 3.X turning is awful. It's too good at low levels and worthless at mid to high levels. So I updated the 2nd edition turn undead table to make use of some 3.Xisms. I also made turning undead primarily a paldin ability and have clerics turn or rebuke undead as a paladin three levels lower.
LEVEL OF PALADIN
{table=head]-|1|2-3|4-5|6|7-8|9-10|11|12-13|14-15|16|17-18|19+
1- HD|
15|
15|
15|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*|D*|D*
2 HD|
18|
18|
18|18|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*|D*
3-4 HD|
21|
21|
21|21|21|T|T|D|D|D*|D*|D*
5 HD|
24|
24|
24|24|24|24|T|T|D|D|D*|D*
6 HD|
25|
25|
25|25|25|25|25|T|T|D|D|D*
7 HD|
-|
27|
27|27|27|27|27|27|T|T|D|D
8 HD|
-|
-|
29|29|29|29|29|29|29|T|T|D
9 HD|
-|
-|
-|30|30|30|30|30|30|30|T|T
10 HD|
-|
-|
-|-|33|33|33|33|33|33|33|T
11-12 HD|
-|
-|
-|-|-|35|35|35|35|35|35|35
13-14 HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|36|36|36|36|36|36
15-16 HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|38|38|38|38|38
17+HD|
-|-|
-|-|-|-|-|-|40|40|40|40
[/table]
* An additional 1d4 + (cha modifier) creatures of this type are turned.
Frequency: You may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + (cha modifier). You may only make one attempt per encounter.
Range: 60 feet
Turning Check: Roll 1d20 and add your paladin level and charisma modifier. Compare that number to the above table to determine what hit die of undead you can effect. A T indicates that a creature of that hit die is turned regardless of roll and a D indicates that a creature of that hit die is dispelled.
Number Turned: 1d6+(paladin level)+(cha modifier). Lowest hit die are effected first.
Duration: Turned undead flee from you by the best and fastest means available to them. They flee for 10 rounds (1 minute). If they cannot flee, they cower (giving any attack rolls against them a +2 bonus). If you approach within 10 feet of them, however, they overcome being turned and act normally. (You can stand within 10 feet without breaking the turning effect, you just can’t approach them.) You can attack them with ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away), and others can attack them in any fashion, without breaking the turning effect.
To follow will be a revised Cleric / Domain spell list that I especially would like a critique of.