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Sploosh
2010-10-23, 02:38 AM
Our group just got ourselves a copy of it and I have mixed feelings. I had a very fun time running around as a yeti wielding a stopsign as a weapon. It gave the game a light hearted feeling from the start and that feeling continued with the random character creation preventing any focused optimization.

I'm a big fan of optimizing, practical, not theoretical. I wouldn't claim to be the best at it by any means, but I stand out among the group. I normally have to make sure I build things in line with the party, and I always have a pang of regret for not being able to fully explore all my options because of that.

Not having to worry about any of that is a change of pace that I enjoy. If someone is weaker than someone else, it's the dice's fault, not ours.

On the other hand, one of our players had a 6 for their con score and it wasn't a surprise that she almost died the first fight and wasn't so lucky the next. It sucks to get shafted with such low health and not have any other choice to make up for it. The lethality rate to start with doesn't help either

Did I mention I was a yeti with a stop sign?:smallsmile:

What do you guys think of the new Gamma World? What are your experiences?

DeltaEmil
2010-10-23, 03:34 AM
That's what Gabe from Penny Arcade thinks about. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/10/13/)

Which makes it very strange, and I'd like to try it out too.

ghost_warlock
2010-10-23, 05:28 AM
I own the boxed set, but won't be able to playtest it until tomorrow.

Having looked through the stuff, however, I'll say that I like some of it (artwork, humor, equipment lists, templated character generation, overcharge, gorgeous battle maps) and hate other aspects (randomized booster packs of powers, deck building, extremely random stat generation, no personalization during character generation, low capstone level).

The game seems designed for one-shots and on-the-fly sessions. It certainly seems antagonistic to players becoming attached to their characters.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-23, 09:32 PM
I just finished playing a promo at the local game store not, what? Four hours ago. I enjoyed the hell out of it. I was a gravity controller mind coercer. I was stuck on the character as soon as I learned I didn't take falling damage. Me and my friend are going half and half on our own copy of the game.

Oh, and the minitank. God we loved the minitank.

Hal
2010-10-23, 10:24 PM
I accidentally posted a second Gamma World thread, but I'll repost my reactions from a game day trial:


I played an empath giant by the name of "Gentle Ben." My weapon of choice: a stop light. At one point in the game, I grew a yeti-like pelt (Chewbacca, anyone?) and then lost it. So, I was a naked empath giant . . . wearing a bike helmet (Oh random loot tables, you never fail).

I liked building my character; the random creation makes for some interesting combinations, from the silly to the superb (we had a speedster cockroach - he could shift before and after an attack, had move speed 8, and could ignore terrain features . . . wicked). The way powers swap in and out after encounters makes things chaotic. I found it interesting and amusing, but the volatility could make many characters unreliable.

Overall, though, I liked it. If nothing else, definitely good for a laugh.

Otogi
2010-10-23, 10:36 PM
You know, yeti's (or yetei, or whatever) always seem to show up a lot with this game.

I think I'll love it more than the previous editions. :smallbiggrin:

ghost_warlock
2010-10-23, 11:34 PM
No yetis in our group. We had:

Rat swarm pyro
Cockroach doppleganger (me)
Android radioactive
Plant doppleganger
Hawkoid pyro
Mental coercer plant.

So...2 plants, 2 pyrokineticists, and 2 dopplegangers. Would have been 3 dopplegangers, but the android player insisted on rerolling because she didn't want to be the same as everyone.

Omega tech seemed all-but pointless as we never really got any (despite lots of searches, maybe that was a GM error).

Most fun: either vomiting on monsters as an at-will attack, or rolling on the random junk tables and finding uses for the crap we'd find.

Edit: Maybe I'm just overthinking the whole thing, and I realize that optimization isn't really a concern, but does anyone else think the plant traits are sort of, well, crap? I mean, fire vulnerability in exchange for...not really anything. :smallconfused:

Hat-Trick
2010-10-24, 12:26 AM
We got a new piece of Omega after every encounter. My party consisted of:

Me, the Grav 'troller mind coercer
a electrokinetic yeti
a felinoid doppleganger
an android doppleganger
a rat swarm empath
a rat swarm something
a plant mind coercer breaker
a radioactive mind coercer

Our android was named Xerox, using voltron gestures to duplicate.

Eldan
2010-10-24, 08:50 AM
Hmm.

You know, I usually dislike 4th edition, but Gamma World is a game and setting I could actually see working very well with this. I've played a few one-shots in the past with an AD&D equivalent edition, and they were always a blast. And from everything I hear about 3rd edition, this actually sounds like a huge lot of fun.

Or I might just start a large 3.5 homebrew.

oxybe
2010-10-24, 09:37 AM
i never played the older versions of GammaWorld and while we didn't have the gameday at our FLGS, i did play GW at my buddy's.

players:
-Android Doppelganger, CTRL+V (me, a pseudo-megaman ripoff with a 64-pixel screen for a face and a chiptune-style voice)
-Android Felinoid, FEL-IX (it was a "Feline Something Librarian, Mark IX". he rode around on a horse)
-Empath Mindbreaker, Deanna Roy (a jerk-version Expy of a star trek character, or so i'm told since i know nothing of Star Trek. her Omega Tech was a robot dog based around Dr.Who's K-9. funny banter follows as the dog provides no useful information)

it was fun.

the empath was the assistant to the "mayor" of our small community and called upon my character, a salvage droid & the historian/librarian droid to go check out the mysterious explosions outside of town which have been causing problems for our traders.

after finding the burning wreck of half a pickup, we put the clamps on some murderous anthropomorphic badger salvagers and retrieved a space probe sent out by previous canadian prime minister Robert Borden in the 1910-20's (because world leaders have been working with aliens for a long time, you know:smalltongue:) containing a mysterious topographical map of the eastern coast with a mysterious blip leading somewhere.

all for a scrap of 1960's New York Press newspaper. that and we kept the alien tech :smallbiggrin:

it kinda puts D&D into perspective:
-save our country and i'll give you your own fife!
-save our kingdom and i'll give you thousands of gold!
-save our town and i'll give you the sports section! (due to newspapers containing information on pre-big mistake culture & civilization)

it was silly and it's not something we'll probably play for a "serious" campaign, but as a pickup and play it's great.

Jaidu
2010-10-25, 11:35 AM
I had fun playing at the Game Day, and I'm GMing for my friends tomorrow. One of the characters at the table was Penny, a Telekinetic/Radioactive, who used her telekinetic powers to have a large number of coins cling to her (heavy armor) and fly off at the enemy whenever needed (ranged weapon). (Whenever the GM called this character on initiative, he did *knock knock knock* "Penny?" *knock knock knock* "Penny?" *knock knock knock* "Penny?")

I wasn't too happy with my character for the game (Hypercognitive Empath) because I didn't match any of the attack stats for weapons and both my origin powers were encounter powers, so once I used those I was pretty much stuck making terrible ranged basic attacks. That is, until I drew the Load Lifter Harness Omega Tech and effectively became a giant crushing machine. Fun.

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 11:41 AM
Did I mention I was a yeti with a stop sign?:smallsmile:

I believe that this is the most important part of this post. Where else could you play a STOP sign-wielding-Yeti (except HoL, of course)?

I had little hope for the 4e-esque edition of Gamma World, but I may pick it up and give it a try.

bokodasu
2010-10-25, 12:35 PM
Look, I REALLY don't have time to learn another gaming system right now. Really. No radioactive yetis, no psychic swamp critters, no... a stop sign, you say?

All right, you win. I'm taking a long lunch tomorrow to pick it up.

Duke of URL
2010-10-25, 12:47 PM
Hmm.

You know, I usually dislike 4th edition, but Gamma World is a game and setting I could actually see working very well with this. I've played a few one-shots in the past with an AD&D equivalent edition, and they were always a blast. And from everything I hear about 3rd edition, this actually sounds like a huge lot of fun.

Yeah, for me 4e simply doesn't "feel" like D&D either. But for some reason, I can see the general mechanics working really well for Gamma World.

Sploosh
2010-10-25, 01:56 PM
Maybe I'm just overthinking the whole thing, and I realize that optimization isn't really a concern, but does anyone else think the plant traits are sort of, well, crap? I mean, fire vulnerability in exchange for...not really anything. :smallconfused:

Yeah, the races aren't exactly even. Take a look at engineered human or felinoid and compare it to the plant and you have a pretty big gap. Then you can lack any weapon stat and end up with terrible attacks.

This isnt counting some people getting omega tech that gives you things like permenant resist 10 fire and lightning vs someone getting a one time bad power based on a stat you have a 5 in.

For example: One of our players has died twice in two sessions, her current character has terrible attack stats, low health, bad omegas and relatively weak racials.

On the other hand, my friend and I have great omegas, and relatively syngergistic origins. I'm a seismic yeti and I rolled an 18 in con so I am at max HP with resist 5 physical, and improved AC.

We got some great alphas and the two of us managed to defeat 8 even level skirmishers and a higher level commander after our two other gamers got killed in two turns due to terrible HP in the fight right before this.

We kill them and immediately get attacked by 4 even level artillery, with 4 additional appearing about 2 rounds apart for a total of about 20. Thanks to our alphas I was healing 10 a turn and between that and my friend's incredible damage resistance we managed to hit and run our way into winning.

Not really even.

That said, the game is still a blast.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-25, 02:24 PM
Yeah, but with a well built deck, characters would improve. Having synergistic cards would allow for better performance even with low attack stats.

Sploosh
2010-10-25, 02:37 PM
Yeah, I think that is definitely the next step. The island of choice in a sea of random. :smalltongue:

ghost_warlock
2010-10-26, 01:00 AM
Came across something that some of y'all might be interested in: a web-based, one-click character generator (http://html5.holycow.com/gammaworld/).

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 01:50 AM
Very barren. Needs more Stone Yeti!

Eldan
2010-10-26, 01:55 AM
That character generator is pretty cool. I got a wagon, a draft horse, a pick-up and a generator with 8 hours of fuel. I'm starting a caravan.

Anyway, it seems from what I read here, they at least kept the "balance" from earlier editions. Which is great. In my game, we had a plant man able to fly, heal himself (which was fantastic, it was like the only healing power in the game, and very unlikely to get. The other possibility was spending a few weeks waiting for natural healing), touch an item and find out what happened with it for the last ~100 years and take double actions with his four arms, which meant that he carried four flintlock pistols which he could all shoot every turn. Then we had a turtle man who had the equivalent of plate armour, but no combat abilities and a fire-breathing wolfman. Those all weren't too bad, but it was entirely possible to roll horrible characters.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 02:34 AM
We ran healing where if you survived the combat, you're back to full, the second winds were awesome, our felinoid doppleganger needed that like every fight, poor fellow. How did your plant keep ammo around? I thought anymore than one shot per gun meant no ammo after the fight finished.

ghost_warlock
2010-10-26, 02:38 AM
RAW is heal full after every fight.

My main beef with the plant race is that, while other templates get at least a few traits, all plants get is +2 Fort and fire vulnerability. Oh, and their novice power is a 1/encounter. Seems like sort of a boring, short stick (pun semi-intended).

Eldan
2010-10-26, 02:39 AM
Mind you, that wasn't 4e gamma world but the old game. I have no idea if the fluff is still the same, but the world was up to late medieval technology, you could buy swords, armour, flintlocks and ammo in shops. So he just had a bag of pistol balls.

I mostly mentioned this as an example of the game not being any more balanced in the earlier editions. This was... 3rd? 4th? Somewhere around that. Before it became d20, at least.

Edit: plants were awesome in that edition. You don't need to eat, which is a great help, and depending on your type, you get more bonuses. Let's see... heat adaption, free "Spines" mutation and living without much water as a cactus, free psychic mutations as a flower, massive bonus to mental resistance as a fungus...

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 02:42 AM
Oh, well 7th plays way differently, then. Fun game, if you like rules light hilarity and a little TCG mixed into your TTRPG.

Eldan
2010-10-26, 02:45 AM
Yeah. That's what I mean, really. That old edition was a little weird... the combat was pretty fast-paced, with few rules, the setting and adventures were wacky, but then there were suddenly these pieces of pretty gritty rules in there, like running out of food and water, the very, very harsh radiation rules or that you basically had 60 or so HP, but only healed a handful per day.

Which is why I think 4E might do the setting and over the top pulp-feeling much more justice.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 10:51 AM
Many more levels in badass, yes. It concentrates more on the fun parts of adventuring and downplays the unimportant things like natural healing.

EvilJames
2010-10-26, 12:09 PM
Sounds interesting but the booster packs of powers seems at best like a poor game mechanic to me, at worst it seems like a way for wizards to try and squeeze more money from customers. I mean how optional are the cards? Can I get away with not having any and play the game just fine or do you need them in order to actually play your character? If so I'll pass, it sounds so far like a game that doesn't do campaign mode well which is a shame, because I already have Kobolds ate my Baby for humorous randomized one shots.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 12:18 PM
You get, what? 80 cards in the game box? So you don't actually need to buy boosters, but if you want to "optimize" your Alpha/Omega draws, yeah you want some booster packs.

Eldan
2010-10-26, 01:55 PM
Okay, question. Is the Gamma World box playable on it's own, or do I need the 4E core rules? if the former, it's a purchase I might consider, if I can get some online shop to mail it over here for a reasonable price.

TheEmerged
2010-10-26, 02:04 PM
As for the game itself? I'm still waiting for my box to come in. I think the bookstore is keeping it until the other product I ordered comes in or something.

RE: The cards. Cheapskate that I am, this is going to be replaced with a percentile roll against a table thank you very much :smallcool:

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 02:07 PM
Self contained, as far as I know.
Rulebook, character sheets, playmaps, character and monster tokens, cards. You might need a seperate set of funky shaped dice, but other than that, you'll be good to my knowledge.

Sploosh
2010-10-26, 02:13 PM
You pretty much want a copy of the 4e rules. The box doesn't even come with any dice, which is a disappointment in and of itself.

You get quite a large amount of cards in the box itself, but like Hat-Trick said, if you want to get more synergistic cards, get a more solid theme going (ie. Yeti related cards, Damage soaking/prevention cards, ect..) or just want the option to make sure you have a chance of getting SOME decent cards.

It's important to note that your "deck" is very small if you are using your own, and you don't get to draw from it all the time anyway. You also dont get to have duplicates, so you can't really use a combo as a crutch.

If you don't have your own decks, you simply draw from the DM's deck, which are the 80 or so cards you start with.


Edit: But it IS stand-alone. It's rules just aren't as indepth as say, the Rules Compendium, and if it doesn't change those rules, you use the 4e rules, which is why having one is nice to have.

Here is what you get with the box:
•160-page book with rules for character creation, game rules, and an adventure
•2 sheets of die-cut character and monster tokens
•2 double-sided battle maps
•Cardstock character sheets and mutation power cards
•Mutation power card deck
•Loot power card deck

Hat-Trick
2010-10-26, 02:15 PM
Why do you want the 4e rules? Gamma World comes with it's own.

Eldan
2010-10-26, 02:43 PM
Should be good enough then. I have bags full of funky dice already from my 3.5 times. :smallbiggrin:

SwordChucks
2010-10-26, 03:06 PM
I rolled up a speedster/mindbreaker and was ready to be the scout from TF2 with a spiked bat, until I got the heavy lifter omega tech. I hit a porker with a telephone pole and never looked back.

Jaidu
2010-10-27, 01:36 PM
I ran the first part of the Stead of the Iron King, the adventure in the rulebook, last night, and we had a lot of fun.

The party consisted of:
Birdbrain McNugget, Hypercognitive/Hawkoid: Supremely mobile scout who screeched and coughed his way through battle.
Nick Newton, Electrokinetic/Gravity Controller: Bending the laws of time and space to suit his whims.
Penny, Telekinetic/Radioactive: A young woman covered in coins that serve as both her armor and weapon.
Slag, Seismic/Doppelganger: A lithic warrior wielding the "Parking Meter of Justice", creating short-term clones who wield the "Knock-off Parking Meter of Justice"
The Consciousness, Doppelganger/Rat Swarm: A swarm of "mirror roaches" that sent off bits of itself to combat opponents.

Early on, Penny was knocked out by a Yaxil (flying lion thing), and The Consciousness exploded (via the Explode card) directly on top of her, finishing her off, and, unfortunately, missing every enemy except a Badder with 2 hp. She was replaced by Lord Shaggington, a Seismic Yeti who wielded Jeeves, a cryogenically frozen skier, as a club.

Soon, The Consciousness succumbed to its tremendous fear of badgers (Badder Fear Wave power), but Slag managed to salvage a mini tank from the Badders! Out of nowhere, Princess Kittyfur (Felinoid/Hypercognitive) showed up, ready to fight. The mini tank made the next combat fairly easy, and apparently was a very common piece of tech in this region, because Birdbrain McNugget managed to find another one. With a pair of tanks (Slag made his recharge roll), the party rolled through the next encounter. The game ran incredibly fast, as we got through character creation, intro roleplay, and five combats in less than four hours, and we have three combats left. I plan on including some anti-tank mechanisms that aren't written into the adventure.

Sploosh
2010-10-27, 01:58 PM
Awesome. I suspect that the secret to a hillarious and fun game lays in having a seismic yeti. This thread needs more yeti.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-27, 02:03 PM
Moar Yeti!!
http://www.theyeticave.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/yeti.jpg

Sploosh
2010-10-27, 02:05 PM
Haha, nice

dsmiles
2010-10-27, 02:37 PM
You pretty much want a copy of the 4e rules. The box doesn't even come with any dice, which is a disappointment in and of itself.

You get quite a large amount of cards in the box itself, but like Hat-Trick said, if you want to get more synergistic cards, get a more solid theme going (ie. Yeti related cards, Damage soaking/prevention cards, ect..) or just want the option to make sure you have a chance of getting SOME decent cards.

It's important to note that your "deck" is very small if you are using your own, and you don't get to draw from it all the time anyway. You also dont get to have duplicates, so you can't really use a combo as a crutch.

If you don't have your own decks, you simply draw from the DM's deck, which are the 80 or so cards you start with.


Edit: But it IS stand-alone. It's rules just aren't as indepth as say, the Rules Compendium, and if it doesn't change those rules, you use the 4e rules, which is why having one is nice to have.

Here is what you get with the box:
•160-page book with rules for character creation, game rules, and an adventure
•2 sheets of die-cut character and monster tokens
•2 double-sided battle maps
•Cardstock character sheets and mutation power cards
•Mutation power card deck
•Loot power card deck

Stop. You had me at 'stop sign-wielding-yeti.' :smallcool:

Sploosh
2010-10-27, 03:27 PM
They come for the stop sign wielding yeti, they stay for the cigar smoking men with lightsabers and jet packs.

Also, they stay for the yeti.

We need someone to photoshop a stopsign onto that yeti and get a few shots of frozen people used as weapons and a few choice tank shots.

Hat-Trick
2010-10-27, 03:32 PM
I was tempted, but all I have is Paint.

TheEmerged
2010-11-02, 06:00 PM
So, finally got my copy.

RE: Plant origin. I'm thinking the imbalance in the origin attributes is supposed to be balanced by its powers. I'd have to see that in play, though.

RE: My Character. So, the first character I rolled up as practice was a Mind Coercer/Breaker. No, really, got both. I was half expecting to get Interaction as my one bonus skill :smallbiggrin:

Have to say I'm looking forward to trying this in actual play.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-02, 06:52 PM
Tee-hee, this is great. Playing around with the character generator got me a Rat Swarm / Cockroach with two canoes, a pickup truck, a climber's kit, and a radio cell phone. And 9 Stealth. I am a mobile beast. :smallbiggrin:

Otogi
2010-11-02, 09:58 PM
I hear you can use monsters from the Monster Manual in this game. Any truth to that?

Hat-Trick
2010-11-02, 10:28 PM
Apparently, it is possible to use 4th ed material in Gamma World and vice versa (I have yet to see this in play for the fact that my copy has yet to arrive at the local gamestore :smallfrown: and that I pretty much don't play 4th ed otherwise).

Psyren
2010-11-02, 10:36 PM
That's what Gabe from Penny Arcade thinks about. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/10/13/)

Which makes it very strange, and I'd like to try it out too.

They had me at "psychic cat." :smallbiggrin:

This seems like a fun, Borderlands-y system.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-02, 11:06 PM
I hear you can use monsters from the Monster Manual in this game. Any truth to that?
As I understand it, yes. It seems to be derived from the basic 4e rules, with some slight changes and a revamped character creation system, so combat should work the same way.

bokodasu
2010-11-03, 07:48 AM
Man, I wound up ordering it and when it went out for delivery the truck it was on BROKE. (Probably destroyed by a yeti of some sort.)

They promise it will be here today. And my friend just said he wants to have a roleplaying weekend when he finishes his basement. I think we have a winner!

Eldan
2010-11-03, 08:13 AM
Haven't been able to get my hands on a copy yet, as shipping it over here plus taxes is damn expensive, but after reading up on it a little:

Giving new powers every combat is the best idea ever, bar none. In the old edition, character creation was one of my favourite parts, even if it was grossly unbalanced. Semi-redoing characters every combat is fantastic.

TheEmerged
2010-11-04, 12:48 PM
Well, I miss feats but the constant card swapping should make up for it. On the other hand, I'm flat-out dying to try some of these characters in actual play situations. Especially the Plant Swarm O_o

shadowmage
2010-11-04, 01:47 PM
I picked up my copy earlier this week and loved the origins. Reading up on the Empath I think it was, I could not help but think Android + empath would make a great Marvin paranoid android. It talked about how empathy's would cry when someone else does and that people also tend to pick up their emotions.

Tengu_temp
2010-11-04, 05:57 PM
I have mixed feelings about this system. On one hand, I like how silly and pulpy it is. On the other, could Wizards make it even more obvious with it that they want your money, here and now? Official events where you can bring your own pimped-out deck and where all the "hardcore" players look down on you if your deck is cheap are only a matter of time, just you wait.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-04, 05:59 PM
I think the system is pretty hardcore-proof. It's very very silly.

But I get your point.

WildPyre
2010-11-04, 06:50 PM
I'm not getting this game... ever. I'm sorry I REFUSE to buy a pack of 8 collectable cards for $4 or so in order to play an RPG. If somebody happens to have it and I can use the basic cards, hey cool... but I think it's rediculous to mix a CCG with an RPG.

He who spends the most cash gets the best character is just flat out stupid, and I'm not going to feed Hasborg money for such load of crap. Seriously, did the cards HAVE to be collectable? They couldn't have just made power cards and left it at that? They just HAD to find another way to drain your money.

Classy Hasborg, classy.
They do this to D&D and I'm starting a revolt... 4th Ed is bad enough.
*gives them the bird and walks away*

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-04, 07:01 PM
I'm not getting this game... ever. I'm sorry I REFUSE to buy a pack of 8 collectable cards for $4 or so in order to play an RPG. If somebody happens to have it and I can use the basic cards, hey cool... but I think it's rediculous to mix a CCG with an RPG.

He who spends the most cash gets the best character is just flat out stupid, and I'm not going to feed Hasborg money for such load of crap. Seriously, did the cards HAVE to be collectable? They couldn't have just made power cards and left it at that? They just HAD to find another way to drain your money.

Classy Hasborg, classy.
They do this to D&D and I'm starting a revolt... 4th Ed is bad enough.
*gives them the bird and walks away*

*Sigh* Please read this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/10/13/). Scroll down and read Gabe's post.

You don't have to buy the cards. You can't WIN at D&D. The game works just fine without them. With games like Magic, you are playing against other players, so you do need to shell out massive amounts of money to be competitive. D&D is a cooperative game, so the incentive to get cards is pretty low; you don't need the "best character." Since you don't seem to be opposed to the cards themselves, why not pretend that they aren't collectible, and play that way? Not to mention that balance isn't the key here. Everything is so random that some characters will always be more powerful than others, and getting a particularly good mutation slightly more often than others is not going to unbalance it any further.

Also, Hasboro != WotC, and I'm ignoring your intentionally inflammatory comment about 4e.

Cealocanth
2010-11-04, 07:10 PM
How'd you get a hold of it? I though it didn't come out till February,

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-04, 07:11 PM
How'd you get a hold of it? I though it didn't come out till February,

You thought wrong, my good sir. (http://www.amazon.com/Gamma-World-Roleplaying-Game-Setting/dp/0786955082/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288915853&sr=8-1)

Cealocanth
2010-11-04, 07:13 PM
Well then. I'll probably be getting a source book at the least.


How's the mutation system?

WildPyre
2010-11-04, 07:47 PM
*Sigh* Please read this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/10/13/). Scroll down and read Gabe's post.

You don't have to buy the cards. You can't WIN at D&D. The game works just fine without them. With games like Magic, you are playing against other players, so you do need to shell out massive amounts of money to be competitive. D&D is a cooperative game, so the incentive to get cards is pretty low; you don't need the "best character." Since you don't seem to be opposed to the cards themselves, why not pretend that they aren't collectible, and play that way? Not to mention that balance isn't the key here. Everything is so random that some characters will always be more powerful than others, and getting a particularly good mutation slightly more often than others is not going to unbalance it any further.

Also, Hasboro != WotC, and I'm ignoring your intentionally inflammatory comment about 4e.

I don't have to buy the cards? So you're telling me you can take the cards out of the game and play it without the cards... at all... none of them?

As I understand it you can't. As I understand it the cards are used for both powers and loot. Is this correct?

Also I honestly think you're underestimating the competativeness of people when it comes to little collectable cards, and optimisation in RPGs.

Am I opposed to the cards themselves? No of course not there are several games out there that use cards... it's when you add that innocent little word "collectable" to them that they leave a bad taste in my mouth. You seem to like 4th edition (not my cup of tea but hey). So now imagine that the power and item cards in 4th edition were collectable.

I'm sorry I'm not going to keep buying booster packs to find the things I need for my character. I've played an RPG with collectable cards called "Dragon Storm" where the powers and gear were all on collectable cards... it was horrible... I repeat HORRIBLE. You want a long sword? Sure, you got the card for that? No, well you're SOL.

You're right D&D isn't a competative game and I understand that Gama World isn't either... but I tell you what you sit down to play D&D with heavy optimisers and play a gimped monk. Tell me how much fun you have.

I'm sure it's a fun game, and like I said I wouldn't be opposed to sitting down with firends who have the basic set and using those cards... but as for buying booster packs of cards for an RPG... there are no words to convey my distaste... actually there are but the mods prevent them.

You're welcome to have fun with the game, you're welcome to like it, just as I'm welcome to stand here and say that putting CCGs in RPGs is redonculous.

PS: "© 1995-2010 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All Rights Reserved" so... yeah...

shadowmage
2010-11-04, 07:54 PM
You do not have to build a deck. You play and draw from the DM's Decks. If your playing the game as they meant it of being fun and light hearted, so you do not need to build your own deck. The cards are not like Magic, I have not heard any thing about rarity for them. If you fee you have to build a deck to play the game, then that is where you run into the problem. Me I will play with the basic deck that came with the set and just use it for one off games.

Sploosh
2010-11-04, 07:56 PM
There are plenty of cards to start with when you buy the game. So any of the added cards are a perk, not required. Likewise, the cards dont determine all of what you get, nor do they help you if you rolled crappy on other things and have a 20 char and no attack stat.

That is what seperates this from say, playing a monk with optimizers. You could be a monk, but you could also have all 18s and the wizard could have an int so low he can't cast level 1 spells.(Note that you do get automatic stats to the primaries of your origins, it just so happens that some of those origins for example do not their main ability as a main attack stat) Likewise, the normal cards aren't worse than the other ones, so you can't really gurantee to be better off.

I'm not saying you aren't better off being able to minimize the chance of not getting a card you want, I'm just saying that it won't make the game suddenly not random and ultimately isn't guranteed to make or break anything. If you are upset by being underpowered, you are going to run into that with or without the extra cards.

WildPyre
2010-11-04, 08:07 PM
I refer back to my original post...


I'm not getting this game... ever. I'm sorry I REFUSE to buy a pack of 8 collectable cards for $4 or so in order to play an RPG. If somebody happens to have it and I can use the basic cards, hey cool... but I think it's rediculous to mix a CCG with an RPG.

I have nothing against playing the game... I'm sure it makes for a fun one off game, it seems like a fun lighthearted game to play when an actual game gets called off for lack of player/s or what have you.

It's the buying more cards that rubs me the wrong way. Not gonna do it... done it before, not doing it again. In my expierience CCGs and RPGs do not mix.

Otogi
2010-11-04, 08:45 PM
Okay, so I just got the game, and I haven't been able to play it yet, but I have to say just reading is an experience. It's all the Gamma World goodness of the past with a slightly modern twist, and I love what they did with it.

BTW, weird question, but favorite origin? I'm kinda digging Rat Swarm.

Hat-Trick
2010-11-04, 11:02 PM
Grav 'troller. No falling damage. You're like Dante-lite! Oh, and CON as a Primary for HP and Attack, gravity flux at will power, criticals send enemies flying. Good stuff.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-04, 11:07 PM
It's the buying more cards that rubs me the wrong way. Not gonna do it... done it before, not doing it again. In my expierience CCGs and RPGs do not mix.

But what we're saying is that you don't have to buy more cards. It's entirely optional, and doesn't even make a significant difference in the game, AFAIK.

WildPyre
2010-11-04, 11:59 PM
But what we're saying is that you don't have to buy more cards. It's entirely optional, and doesn't even make a significant difference in the game, AFAIK.

Okay... the cards that I don't HAVE to buy... they're the powers and equipment of the game, yes? I mean I KNOW they're the powers but from what I've come to understand they're used for the loot as well...

Go to the player's hand book... rip out some of the pages with spells and equipment.

Now... you don't HAVE to play with those pages, but if you want to play with the full options of the basic game, you can go out and buy packs of random pages and try to trade around for all the pages you're missing.

Had they said "Okay here's the game, and here's ALL the cards from the basic system. By the way we /may/ release expansion sets but we'll sell them as a bundle of complete collections of that expansion." I'd have absolutely no problem with it. As it stands though I resent having to collect cards to get fireball and long sword. I think it's a horrible way to set up an RPG, and only serves the company selling the packs of random cards.

This isn't a feature... it isn't for balance issues, it is in no way to the player's advantage or convieneance... it is a simple, obvious ploy to get more money.

Hat-Trick
2010-11-05, 12:12 AM
The box comes with 80 cards, which are all you need. There is NO reason to buy the cards unless you want to. I think it's neat and fun, just seeing what I'd get, others might like having a customized deck for certain character types, and others, such as yourself, can just pull from the 80 standard cards and just have fun. No tearing pages. The cards aren't the ONLY way of getting stuff. You can start with once armor piece, a ranged weapon and a melee weapon. Basic gear, right there. You get fun little trinkets like PDAs and golfballs left over from pre-apocalypse. You get the equivalent of magic items from cards, which you have 80 of (technically only forty as the other half is for the random alpha power you get each encounter) just from buying the box. The little green card packets don't exist to you, and that in no way hampers your game. If the thought that someone else is buying cards to create synergy with their characters turns you off, then the system sucks, but if the thought of YOU having to buy cards just to PLAY turns you off, it is a non-issue.

Sploosh
2010-11-05, 12:20 AM
Favorite origin is hands down the engineering human. I love being the super human spawn of science who gets to punch out the yeti with the stop sign and then wrestle the badder to the ground. Plus, depending on your other origin, you can have your own jetpack or flamethrower. You can tame animals or know kung fu.

All the while being the drop dead sexy. Women want you, men want you, and everyone wants to be you.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 12:32 AM
You seem to misunderstand my analogy about tearing pages out of the book. What I'm saying is that they're selling a portion of the game... heck it's a random portion of the game. If you want the full power and equipment list you have to buy random packs of cards and collect/trade for them. It just grates me to know that the complete, basic game, has this CCG aspect to it. There are parts of the basic system, sold seperately and randomly, from... the basic system.

This may not bother you, I understand that. That's fine.

It cheeses me right the heck off. I don't feel that's any way to run and RPG and wouldn't use it for anything more than a one off, throwaway game that I'm not going to take seriously. I understand that's actually a way to look at the system, that's fine too, though I would have perfered a Gama World game I'd be comfortable playing more regularly.

ghost_warlock
2010-11-05, 01:46 AM
You seem to misunderstand my analogy about tearing pages out of the book. What I'm saying is that they're selling a portion of the game... heck it's a random portion of the game. If you want the full power and equipment list you have to buy random packs of cards and collect/trade for them. It just grates me to know that the complete, basic game, has this CCG aspect to it. There are parts of the basic system, sold seperately and randomly, from... the basic system.

This may not bother you, I understand that. That's fine.

It cheeses me right the heck off. I don't feel that's any way to run and RPG and wouldn't use it for anything more than a one off, throwaway game that I'm not going to take seriously. I understand that's actually a way to look at the system, that's fine too, though I would have perfered a Gama World game I'd be comfortable playing more regularly.

A better analogy would be that the core box is PHB1 and the random booster packs are the PHB2...heck randomized packs of minis would be another fitting anology. Seriously, the game is perfectly playable without them but if people want to dump more money into the game WotC has made that an option.

Favorite origin? Easily the cockroach one, because I've always wanted the ability to have an at-will barf attack. What could possibly be more awesome!? :smallcool:

John Campbell
2010-11-05, 02:04 AM
Random pieces of PHB2. At $4 for eight feats/spells/whatever. With no guarantee that they're ones that you want, or even ones that you don't already have.

(Are they really $4 for 8 cards? That's what PA seems to be saying, but... seriously? That seems insanely overpriced to me, even before figuring in the, "Ha ha! You just paid us for nothing!" random factor.)

Hat-Trick
2010-11-05, 02:08 AM
Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26023881/Card_List?pg=1), Wildpyre. Since you hate the idea of buy packs. Problem solved. Have fun with your Stone yetis with stop signs.

shadowmage
2010-11-05, 06:28 AM
Random pieces of PHB2. At $4 for eight feats/spells/whatever. With no guarantee that they're ones that you want, or even ones that you don't already have.

(Are they really $4 for 8 cards? That's what PA seems to be saying, but... seriously? That seems insanely overpriced to me, even before figuring in the, "Ha ha! You just paid us for nothing!" random factor.)

I understand that and can agree with it somewhat, but I also understand they the market is finite and they have to make money some how to keep the game going.

WildPyre I think most of our problem is we feel your just throwing the whole game away because of the card issue. Your not forced to buy the card. But maybe we are more fluff gamers and do not feel we have to build our own decks and your a crunch gamer and feel you do. Also so you understand how it works. When drawing Alpha or Omega cards you can draw from either the Deck the DM has, which can be just all his cards or a themed deck he chooses to build. Or from your own deck that mush have at least 7 card, I think, and no more the 2 of one card. So you could buy the box sets find the 10 or 15 cards you like build your own custom deck and never touch booster pack. It is not likely you will get through a large deck as you shuffle your discard in after every extended rest. So unless you really see a boost pack card you want, which I am sure very quickly you will be able to buy singles on line.

Eldan
2010-11-05, 06:29 AM
Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26023881/Card_List?pg=1), Wildpyre. Since you hate the idea of buy packs. Problem solved. Have fun with your Stone yetis with stop signs.

Oooh. Nice...
Now I'm really tempted to build my own cards from these. Download some pictures, stick them small pieces of thin cardboard...

Though I'm still not able to buy the actual set anywhere. Dammit.

bokodasu
2010-11-05, 06:34 AM
Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the random card idea either, but I figured I'd just print up a bunch of my own cards if I really felt the need to expand. (Which I don't, honestly. It looks like a fun game and all, but not one I'm going to be playing so often that I'll need more than the basic pack.) But if that link is actually a list of all the cards, hey, even better! (Firewall.)

And hey, I did finally get my copy! Now I just need to find someone to play with, and a time to do it in.

dsmiles
2010-11-05, 06:46 AM
Going to see if I can find the boxed set this weekend, wish me luck! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: @Eldan: They don't sell cardstock at the office supply stores over there? Much better than cutting and gluing.

Eldan
2010-11-05, 07:24 AM
That should work too, yes. I still have a huge stack of little cards I used to learn french vocabulary with. That should help.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 09:15 AM
I understand that and can agree with it somewhat, but I also understand they the market is finite and they have to make money some how to keep the game going.

Better way to make money? Require each player to have their own deck but sell all the cards from the basic set in a single pack. That way each player needs to buy their own cards. You buy the game you get THE WHOLE GAME, not some randomized portion of it.


WildPyre I think most of our problem is we feel your just throwing the whole game away because of the card issue. Your not forced to buy the card.

Then you're obviously not reading what I'm saying. once again and for the hard of hearing...

I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO PLAY THIS GAME USING THE DM'S DECK.

Yes, I have issue with there being a portion of this game that has been split up and randomly packaged so that players can go out and spend money to try and get the rest of their game without knowing exactly what it is they're buying.

Honestly I fail to see why so few people seem to have an issue with this. Does the game come with a free literal pack of kool aid to drink? They have sold you an incomplete game! I mean geeze it's almost like a bad joke!


But maybe we are more fluff gamers and do not feel we have to build our own decks and your a crunch gamer and feel you do.

No, once again, you've completely missed what I've said. I'm ticked off that the game is not fricking complete when you buy it. There are metaphoric pages missing from your book. Sure you can play it that way, very enjoyably so... and as I've said SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE, I would play it that way if one of my friends gets it... but in the back of my mind I'll still know that WotC held back some of the game and wants to sell it to me in random packs.

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 09:21 AM
Honestly I fail to see why so few people seem to have an issue with this. Does the game come with a free literal pack of kool aid to drink? They have sold you an incomplete game! I mean geeze it's almost like a bad joke!


It's no more selling you an incomplete game than what they sell you when you just buy the PHB I for 3.5 or 4e. You can play the whole game just fine, but you can also buy additions if you feel like spending the money.

oxybe
2010-11-05, 09:29 AM
the game is complete Pyre, you're just taking offense at an imagined slight.

do you know what's a real offense? when i bought my first PHB over thirteen years ago and i didn't get any of the dice actually needed to play!

see, that is being sold an incomplete game. i was forced to buy a separate product to be able to use the one initially bought.

see, if you were complaining that GW didn't come with dice and is incomplete, then you might have a point. it's hard to play the game without any dice... but the mutation+tech cards it come with make the game fully playable.

that they (WotC) offer you an optional add-on does NOT mean the game is incomplete. it is simply an imagined slight that you are taking offense to.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 09:37 AM
It's no more selling you an incomplete game than what they sell you when you just buy the PHB I for 3.5 or 4e. You can play the whole game just fine, but you can also buy additions if you feel like spending the money.

No, I'm sorry but I see it as the basic set is the basic set... they made it all as one set so I'm sorry that's the way I'm going to see it. You can go into the PHB and rip out pages from the spell and equipment lists and still play the game just fine... but it's not the whole game.

Does the basic set even come with certain predetermined cards or is that random as well? If it's predetermined cards, do the boosters have a chance of having the cards from the basic set? Seriously $4 for 8 cards? If they're randomly packed is there a rarity system? Why should any of this have been wedged into an RPG?

There are better ways they could have done this, better ways to make money, than trying to get players to buy packs of random cards, in hopes that they'll get the card/s they want to round out their characters.

I'm sure the game is fine and dandy to play as it is, heck I'll say it again... I'll play it using the DM's deck... but open your eyes people this was done with the sole purpose of draining money out of people and if enough people drink the kool aid with Gama World, we'll be seeing more of this jack-holery from WotC in the future.

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 09:48 AM
No, I'm sorry but I see it as the basic set is the basic set... they made it all as one set so I'm sorry that's the way I'm going to see it. You can go into the PHB and rip out pages from the spell and equipment lists and still play the game just fine... but it's not the whole game.

That's why they didn't do that. They have the spells and equipment you get with the boxed set, and then you can spend more money to get other spells and equipment. It is no different than supplementary books for 3.5 or 4e, except in format.


Does the basic set even come with certain predetermined cards or is that random as well? If it's predetermined cards, do the boosters have a chance of having the cards from the basic set? Seriously $4 for 8 cards? If they're randomly packed is there a rarity system? Why should any of this have been wedged into an RPG?

The boxed set comes with 80 cards that are only in the boxed set. You cannot get them in the boosters.


I'm sure the game is fine and dandy to play as it is, heck I'll say it again... I'll play it using the DM's deck... but open your eyes people this was done with the sole purpose of draining money out of people and if enough people drink the kool aid with Gama World, we'll be seeing more of this jack-holery from WotC in the future.

Of course it was made to make money, every single product WoTC creates is made to make money, whether it's these booster packs or additional books for 3.5/4e.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 10:01 AM
That's why they didn't do that. They have the spells and equipment you get with the boxed set, and then you can spend more money to get other spells and equipment. It is no different than supplementary books for 3.5 or 4e, except in format.

And that you're buying them blindly in random fashion. It is good to hear that the cards in the pack are a predetermined set of cards that aren't in the boosters. THIS actually does make it feel more like a complete game. It doesn't magically fix the fact that they're trying to sell other cards for it in random packs.

As for the money issue, yes I realize they're supposed to be making money, but there's a big differance between selling a supplement for an RPG and breaking that supplement up and selling it in random packs.

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 10:06 AM
And that you're buying them blindly in random fashion. It is good to hear that the cards in the pack are a predetermined set of cards that aren't in the boosters. THIS actually does make it feel more like a complete game. It doesn't magically fix the fact that they're trying to sell other cards for it in random packs.

As for the money issue, yes I realize they're supposed to be making money, but there's a big differance between selling a supplement for an RPG and breaking that supplement up and selling it in random packs.

And if you don't like how they sell their supplementary materials, you are free to not buy them. Doesn't mean you have to say everyone that does is "drinking the kool-aid".

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 10:11 AM
And if you don't like how they sell their supplementary materials, you are free to not buy them. Doesn't mean you have to say everyone that does is "drinking the kool-aid".

When everyone feels the need to plug their ears and go "nananananana" when I speak out about the failings of the system... yeah I kinda feel the need to point out the kool aid drinking.

I've said that people are free to enjoy the game, heck I've admited that I'd probably enjoy playing from the DM's deck as a one off game... I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room and being told (repetedly) that there is no elephant.

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 10:16 AM
When everyone feels the need to plug their ears and go "nananananana" when I speak out about the failings of the system... yeah I kinda feel the need to point out the kool aid drinking.

I've said that people are free to enjoy the game, heck I've admited that I'd probably enjoy playing from the DM's deck as a one off game... I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room and being told (repetedly) that there is no elephant.

Except your claims of it "not being a complete game" were totally wrong, so that plugging of ears you're talking about isn't happening.

shadowmage
2010-11-05, 10:18 AM
No I think it is more you see it as an elephant and other see it as a dog. I see and understand your point. I just look at the cards as supplemental books and you look it as part of the core book. Yes in the long run to get a full "book" of cards I might have to pay more then a normal supplement. I can not say for sure as I have not seen the price of the cards.

Personally I think I feel a little more like you with the new 4E player cards coming out. I plan on picking up one booster pack after that I am leaving those. To me with Gamma world the cards were build into the base design so I am OK with it, with the new 4E cards I feel those are a tacked on scheme to get money.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 10:28 AM
Except your claims of it "not being a complete game" were totally wrong, so that plugging of ears you're talking about isn't happening.

Yes I claimed that right up untill the point that you pointed out why that was incorrect and I retracted that particular complaint. Though I had to specificly ask if the cards in the main set were the same cards being sold in boosters and have that answered rather than somebody bringing that up... and that question wasn't even fully answered, though I can assume that they're not randomly packaged if they're also not available in the boosters.

There's also still the issue of them selling a supplement in random packs that people just feel they can ignore because you "don't need to buy it". At least now I know why you "don't need to buy it." It's still an crappy way to sell a suppliment and I doubt people would overlook it so much if it were done with D&D.


No I think it is more you see it as an elephant and other see it as a dog. I see and understand your point. I just look at the cards as supplemental books and you look it as part of the core book. Yes in the long run to get a full "book" of cards I might have to pay more then a normal supplement. I can not say for sure as I have not seen the price of the cards.

Personally I think I feel a little more like you with the new 4E player cards coming out. I plan on picking up one booster pack after that I am leaving those. To me with Gamma world the cards were build into the base design so I am OK with it, with the new 4E cards I feel those are a tacked on scheme to get money.

First of all, thank you.

Secondly... they're... 4th ed... cards... *face palms* There are no words to express my rage.

shadowmage
2010-11-05, 10:30 AM
There's also still the issue of them selling a supplement in random packs that people just feel they can ignore because you "don't need to buy it". At least now I know why you "don't need to buy it." It's still an crappy way to sell a suppliment and I doubt people would overlook it so much if it were done with D&D.

Oh it is and once they start dropping I am sure we will see a lot more poeple going off about it.

TheEmerged
2010-11-05, 12:56 PM
Thanks for that link to those lists. Going to save me a LOT of typing :smallcool:

For the record, I too am from the "Not buying anything 'collectible' like that, ever" school of thought. I'm old school enough to be perfectly happy with random tables, however, so this doesn't bother me.

Hat-Trick
2010-11-05, 02:02 PM
I just don't see where it's all that bad. Sure the system is made to get people to buy stuff, but that's no reason to accuse people of drinking the Cole-Aid (CoH GR FTW). We're glimpsin' the problem, but we're not gunna go all fight 'o clock about it. It's a mole hill to me, but a mountain to you.

Eldan
2010-11-05, 02:06 PM
So, anyone up for a homebrew project? Making those lists into cards (in excel, probably)? Collecting pictures and all that?

Hat-Trick
2010-11-05, 02:08 PM
There aren't pictures on the cards, although they are designed pretty neat. If you mean taking pictures of physical cards, I got 16 from the promo run. 18 including the promo exclusive they handed out.

TheEmerged
2010-11-05, 02:29 PM
I just don't see where it's all that bad. Sure the system is made to get people to buy stuff, but that's no reason to accuse people of drinking the Cole-Aid (CoH GR FTW). We're glimpsin' the problem, but we're not gunna go all fight 'o clock about it. It's a mole hill to me, but a mountain to you.

Answering for myself here, not the other guy.

"All that bad" and references to Kool-Aid(tm) are too strong -- on both sides of the argument. For me it's a matter of knowing my limitations. I'm a little bit OCD (and at one time, had the M:TG collection to show for it). I've resolved, for this and other reasons, that I'm not doing "collectible" gaming stuff like this ever again.

Another reason? There's this concept you may have heard of called a budget :smallwink: Every dollar I spend on X is a dollar I can't spend on Y. My gaming budget is already tight enough. $4 for 8 cards is... bonkers, frankly. $4 for the 80 cards that came with the game I could handle. $4 for 8/120ths of a supplement? Not happening.

Somebody else thinks that's okay? Capitalism is a wonderful thing, a product is worth whatever the buyer will pay, and all that. I'm not getting worked up over it. I'm not shelling the extra money out either.

Eldan
2010-11-05, 02:31 PM
There aren't pictures on the cards, although they are designed pretty neat. If you mean taking pictures of physical cards, I got 16 from the promo run. 18 including the promo exclusive they handed out.

Really. Well, I'll still make mine with pictures. I don't care, those cards I have are pretty big.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 03:27 PM
So, anyone up for a homebrew project? Making those lists into cards (in excel, probably)? Collecting pictures and all that?

I'm fairly sure this, while a wonderful project one might do for themselves, is not something you want to spread around, since it seems ever so slightly illegal, despite how much I'd like to play the game without having to muddle through random packs of cards to get the ones I want/need.


On other notes... am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? Yes... yes I am, and I think I need to do it, stand up and say "Oh hell naw!" before WotC continues down this path and makes D&D 5th ed: Plainswalkers and build a CCG into my "hallowed ground" as it were.

http://oi25.tinypic.com/ndo7i8.jpg

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 03:31 PM
On other notes... am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? Yes... yes I am, and I think I need to do it, stand up and say "Oh hell naw!" before WotC continues down this path and makesD&D 5th ed: Plainswalkers and build a CCG into my "hallowed ground" as it were.


See that, right there? That's the making a mountain out of a molehill. That's a assuption with no actual evidence to support it. A couple supplementary materials that involve cards does not mean that WotC wants D&D to be made up entirely of cards. Related XKCD comic (http://xkcd.com/799/)

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 03:38 PM
See that, right there? That's the making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think the big hint for that was me admitting I was... so... umm... good for you?

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 03:46 PM
I think the big hint for that was me admitting I was... so... umm... good for you?

But then you go right on to say that you "think you need do it", which contradicts your admitting you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you really thought you were blowing this out of perportion, you'd realize all you need to do is sit back and not buy the packs yourself.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 03:52 PM
But then you go right on to say that you "think you need do it", which contradicts your admitting you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you really thought you were blowing this out of perportion, you'd realize all you need to do is sit back and not buy the packs yourself.

It needs to be blown out of proportion... people need to stop and think about how badly this can go if WotC keeps intigrating CCGs into their RPGs... people need to stand up and say "NO! No more of this!". If people don't stand up and speak out about the things they don't like then these things will continue on.

Am I blowing things out of proportion a bit? Yes, but it's only when things are blown out of proportion that you can take a good look at them as it were. People are looking this over as a little thing that bears no importance... they're wrong.

Do you honestly think WotC won't continue to push CCGs into their RPGs if people don't complain about it? Do you think they won't go deeper? Do you not see how this could continue on and become very, VERY bad?

I can see these things, they frighten and disgust me... and I'm saying NO.

Reverent-One
2010-11-05, 03:54 PM
Do you honestly think WotC won't continue to push CCGs into their RPGs if people don't complain about it?


Yep, I do.

WildPyre
2010-11-05, 03:57 PM
Yep, I do.

I'm afraid I've lost that kind of faith in the company a while ago.

dsmiles
2010-11-06, 08:31 AM
I'm afraid I've lost that kind of faith in the company a while ago.

They're going to push CCGs into RPGs whether we complain or not. They're just out to make a buck.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-06, 01:33 PM
Not to mention, they're legally obligated to try to make as much money as possible. If they think they can make the most money by selling extra books or extra cards, then that's what they have to do.

dsmiles
2010-11-06, 04:28 PM
Not to mention, they're legally obligated to try to make as much money as possible. If they think they can make the most money by selling extra books or extra cards, then that's what they have to do.

Not sure "legally obligated" is the right term there. Perhaps "financially obligated" is better, since the law doesn't force them to make extra profit. (That's just for lining their collective pockets. :smalltongue:)

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-11-06, 05:01 PM
Actually, they are a publicly traded company, so they are required by law to make the most money for their stockholders.

Kyos
2010-11-06, 09:32 PM
A few of my friends have been trying to get into DnD, but we're not very good at getting a group together. I've been thinking of using this system as a quick, simple way to ease them into this type of game. Thoughts?

On another note, I think my biggest problem will be getting them out of the video game mentality: Using their powers in ways other than explicitly described and having actual conversations with NPCs will be my biggest issues, I think.

WildPyre
2010-11-06, 10:17 PM
It seems to me that this sytem would be a good way to ease people into 4th edition D&D... though I feel 4th edition is a game best used to ease people into other RPGs, so take that as you will.

oxybe
2010-11-06, 10:26 PM
i agree WildPyre, 4th ed is awesome.

WildPyre
2010-11-06, 10:43 PM
Yup, completely awesome for new players.

I perfer to play 3.5/P myself though... but that isn't what this thread is for. Gamma World and 4th ed are great for introducing new players to the concept of RPGs. I completely endorse using them to indoctrinate new players.

fil kearney
2010-11-08, 03:48 PM
Yup, completely awesome for new players.

I perfer to play 3.5/P myself though... but that isn't what this thread is for. Gamma World and 4th ed are great for introducing new players to the concept of RPGs. I completely endorse using them to indoctrinate new players.

I was about half- drunk when I played... I'm a total idiot when drunk, so I know 4e can be played effectively by idiots... which makes it little more than a "party game" to me.. which is totally awesome!


It's no more selling you an incomplete game than what they sell you when you just buy the PHB I for 3.5 or 4e. You can play the whole game just fine, but you can also buy additions if you feel like spending the money.

best analogy thusfar. And if 4e / gamma world stuff is continued to be put on line unrestricted; let em sell cards. just gimme more options.

I played a radioactive engineered human last week; we got all the way to level 4 in a 6 hour session... it was THE most fun in roleplaying I've had in 10 years. Not being allowed to choose your character is smart; starting play was Fast... and then to randomly switch a mutation power per encounter was raw genius... we would HOWL with laughter at some of the crap we got... every time you roll a 1 on a d20-- and we fumbled a LOT-- forced you to ditch your random mutie and get a new card.. you could activate a random power.. say, "super genius" to figger out how to shut the computer sentry that kept targeting the team with laser turrets... only to roll a 1 on the check, and thus not only botch the roll, but LOSE "super genius" in place of something completely different.

It's mostly fluff n fight; leading from one combat scenario to the next.. but you have NO idea what you are going to have, or be able to do in the encounter.. so everything is totally new every encounter.

getting killed is not really that big a deal... you die, you roll another character in 5 minits (faster than most combats resolve) and you can jump right back in... keep your character sheets from the dead, though... you'll eventually roll the same combo again, and it's like your favorite character gets resurrected.
--if your DM plays this way; you can simply opt between rerolling a new character, or lose all your omega tech loot and start again fully healed at the end of the encounter... you don't get to "loot the dead" for accumulated omega tech, so it becomes worthless junk anyway.

That's another fun random bit; when you get omega tech, there's a 50% chance it breaks after being used that encounter anyway.. so you can't even be that possessive of your stuff. We had a robot-dominating remote control survive every encounter.. we kept fighting robots and dealing with computers, and that remote was a game-winner.

OOH! and overcharging! we overcharged mutie powers EVERY TIME regardless of whether it was good or bad... we'd peer pressure each other into doing it. :p
One guy had a time distortion power to give him extra actions... but he botched the overcharge and disappeared from the game time-stream for 2 hours... he effectively committed suicide the first round of that battle. lol.
I tried running across magma and botched my athletics... I miraculously got Phasing, and was able to take NO damage at all. unbelievable. :)
for this I enjoyed the cards.. it was fun cutting the deck and flipping them at the DM angrily when he snatched away "Soooooper Genius" (the quote on this card was "Go ahead and say it.. "... after we had already said "Sooooooper Genius" just like wile e coyote... frigging priceless)

This game is like HoL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hol_%28role-playing_game%29)... but actually playable.

next game day at the local store is wednesday. I'm so looking forward to it.
As much as I hate the idea of booster cards, I may just buy a few packs simply to contribute money for the time spent enjoying. the cards are a bonus perk. :)