PDA

View Full Version : Dancing Chains of.... what?



Lev
2010-10-29, 02:41 AM
Dancing Chain (4th level BoVD spell) doesn't specify what the chains have to be made of, it only says the chains can grow to 15' long and spout sharp stuff on em.

What's the wackiest, most useful or most broken things you can think of making these base chains out of? (Can be expensive, only needs to be 3 links or so)


Scroll down to see how broken this spell actually is!

Eldan
2010-10-29, 03:34 AM
Riverrine is kinda cheap (in a very expensive way) and a little uncreative.

So... Spiked chains? Brambles (great for unseelie fey)? Bones of the enemy's Children (this is the BoVD, after all)?

Lev
2010-10-29, 04:05 AM
Well I know that adamantine would mean 1 adamantine spiked chain attack per caster level per round which would obliterate obstacles.

So far stone wall + dancing chain + clouds look nice, they can crawl into a little slit in the wall and attack-- they can move anywhere inside the casting range you want as fast as you want (casting range is close).

An ooze frozen into multiple chains is another idea.

Heat metal + chains is another idea, and good imagery for wall of chains + wall of fire + dancing chains.

FelixG
2010-10-29, 05:00 AM
Well I know that adamantine would mean 1 adamantine spiked chain attack per caster level per round which would obliterate obstacles.

So far stone wall + dancing chain + clouds look nice, they can crawl into a little slit in the wall and attack-- they can move anywhere inside the casting range you want as fast as you want (casting range is close).

An ooze frozen into multiple chains is another idea.

Heat metal + chains is another idea, and good imagery for wall of chains + wall of fire + dancing chains.

That sounds like a really intimidating thing to encounter...

Rogue to barbarian: "...you go first!"

Lev
2010-10-29, 05:48 AM
That sounds like a really intimidating thing to encounter...

Rogue to barbarian: "...you go first!"


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5643/dancingchains2.jpg

Dancing Chains
Transmutation
Level: Demonologist 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One chain per level within range
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
The caster can control one chain per level as a standard
action, making the chains dance or move as she wishes.
In addition, the caster can increase the chainsí length
by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor-edged
barbs. These chains attack as spiked chains that use the
casterís normal ranged attack bonus on attack rolls or
grapple checks (treat each chain as Medium-size when
grappling).
The caster can climb a chain she controls at normal
speed without making a Climb check.
A few things:
-Chains do not specifically say they can fly, so we can assume they are ground based unless houseruled.
-Chains are not granted a move speed, so it's assumed they have infinite movement as long as it does not break mechanics or eye-balled time dynamics.
-Chains can let you climb their entire transmuted length with no listed means of suspension at your base speed, one is forced to assume they balance on their tip like some sort of pole that elevators you to the top somehow.
-Chains can grapple, grow razor spikes when attacking, and attack as spiked chains.
-You must have all the chains ready, but the spell does not have a chain length listed.

What can we draw from this? Pretty cool stuff actually:

Stilts
Nothing says the chains can't move while you are climbing them, it says you can move your normal speed so that takes infinite movement out of the question and drops it back down to your base speed across land.

Lightning Fast Swarm
The chains can move during your round anywhere within your casting range, this is 25'+5/2lvl, so a 10th level wizard could control 10 chains and have them basically "blink" to any feasible location in a 50' radius of the level 10 wizard, this means around walls, through holes, underwater, after you make other chains break down a door or wall, and other such ridiculousness.
Nothing says you have to increase the size of the chain, it can stay as a few links and can attack from inside a very small space, and you can use a spiked chain's reach and end the chains turn on a square outside of reach. (And that's only if you can't move after the chain attacks!! Technically you could attack anything within range with impunity!)

Indeterminate Chain Length
There is no listed length or material for the chain, this means that the total length of the base chain is indefinitely small or large, long or short. The DM COULD houserule that the transmuted part of the chain be as long as a close range spell's radius OR diameter, or that you lose control of a chain when it goes outside of your spell range, or that it simply breaks the enchantment with that chain or the length that passed through your range barrier.
The chain has technically infinite powers of lifting, but a DM could houserule that because of it's listed properties the chain has the following indications of strength:
A) A Chain (therefore has a break DC)
and
B) Can lift YOU.
Just to clarify, my character is a Exiled Modron, which means he is 500lbs.
This means the chain CAN pick up 500lbs (assuming the chain is attached to the things you are picking up, or that you lift the weight you want to carry.
This means it has a "lift over head" carrying capacity of at least the caster. This also means it can carry you even at your maximum load, or for instance, carrying one or 5 party members.

Magic Multi Elevator and Just a Chain
Also, it does not say that there is any specific means of you climbing it, and it targets any "chain" with no save, no SR, just a "chain".
This means, you both animate and control any chain within your close casting range, can control 1/level and can grow any of them by up to 15'.
This means that:
A) You can use a chain tethered at both ends to climb without a check.
B) Can use ANY chain to immediately sprout razor sharp barbs as many times as you like, this means those of a chain demon, lengths of chain suspending a platform or drawbridge, or even anything you find that you can make a chain out of, regardless of what it is if you can make 3 or more links in it you can grow it 15' and sprout razor barbs and grapple people with it.


Can anyone find some problems with this reasoning? ;]

Moogleking
2010-10-29, 06:26 AM
Chain Lightning :smalltongue:?

Lev
2010-10-29, 06:27 AM
Chain Lightning :smalltongue:?
Did someone say living chain lightning homebrew? No save, no SR.

Chess435
2010-10-29, 09:51 AM
Don't forget tentacles! Everyone loves spikey tentacles! :smallbiggrin:

Greenish
2010-10-29, 10:39 AM
-Chains can let you climb their entire transmuted length with no listed means of suspension at your base speedNot at your base speed. You don't have to make the Climb checks, but you still move at the normal climbing speed, which is a quarter of your base speed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9656081).

Perfect Control
It does not take an action to control these chains, so there's nothing stopping you from, let's say, with a level 10 wizard rushing into a room on a chain stilt and casting Evard's Black Tentacles then using the chain to grapple 9 times with adamantium piercing damage with the grapple.The description says that controlling the chains is a standard action, by my reading.

Demons_eye
2010-10-29, 11:00 AM
Not at your base speed. You don't have to make the Climb checks, but you still move at the normal climbing speed, which is a quarter of your base speed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9656081).


Objection (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4453644) NTL

Greenish
2010-10-29, 11:04 AM
Objection (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4453644) NTLYes, and then you'll have to make a climb check. The spell only allows you to use the normal climbing speed without a check.

FelixG
2010-10-29, 11:06 AM
Chains made from carp!

The enemies confusion should buy you a second surprise round :smallbiggrin:

Lev
2010-10-29, 11:26 AM
Not at your base speed. You don't have to make the Climb checks, but you still move at the normal climbing speed, which is a quarter of your base speed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9656081).
The description says that controlling the chains is a standard action, by my reading.

Good call!

Knew I missed something!

Jothki
2010-10-29, 11:42 AM
Hmm, no save even for attended chains...

Looks like pretty much an instant win against spiked chain users.

Lev
2010-10-29, 11:48 AM
Can an illusionary chain lift you? Can you make a chain with shadow puppets?

subject42
2010-10-29, 12:24 PM
Lightning Fast Swarm
The chains can move during your round anywhere within your casting range, this is 25'+5/2lvl, so a 10th level wizard could control 10 chains and have them basically "blink" to any feasible location in a 50' radius of the level 10 wizard, this means around walls, through holes, underwater, after you make other chains break down a door or wall, and other such ridiculousness.
Nothing says you have to increase the size of the chain, it can stay as a few links and can attack from inside a very small space, and you can use a spiked chain's reach and end the chains turn on a square outside of reach. (And that's only if you can't move after the chain attacks!! Technically you could attack anything within range with impunity!)



Stilts
Nothing says the chains can't move while you are climbing them, it says you can move your normal speed so that takes infinite movement out of the question and drops it back down to your base speed across land.

Actually, if you hang onto the chain and move them constantly to the edge of your radius as a standard-action, don't you break relativity, since the edge of your radius is moving too?

Mikeavelli
2010-10-29, 12:54 PM
Chain Lightning :smalltongue:?

I wanna try this in a game, see if the DM lets me do it... :D

Chess435
2010-10-29, 02:12 PM
I wanna try this in a game, see if the DM lets me do it... :D

If you can provide evidence that your DM let you do it, I will give you five whole internets.

Lev
2010-10-29, 09:10 PM
Actually, if you hang onto the chain and move them constantly to the edge of your radius as a standard-action, don't you break relativity, since the edge of your radius is moving too?
Correct, the chains technically can travel as fast as you can + reach 50' at level 10 from the point you end up.