How to kill your player characters.

[Logician]

Don't worry, this thread isn't nearly as bad as the title would imply.

To run a fun game, i feel it is necessary to occasionally kill PCs. I know not to intentionally engineering a encounter to kill of one my PCs, but i would like to create them is such a way as to make death a very real possibility. The problem is, i don't like the idea of the PCs dieing to normal encounters and what-not, as these anti-climatic deaths cause more bitterness than tension and thus don't contribute to the overall enjoyment of the game (I am, of course, speaking purely off what i know of my players, though i know its possible you or your players not feel the same way).

Thus, I ask, what are good ways to kill PCs? Good being leaves the player in question not feeling like their death wasn't stupid or random (though not necessarily epic).

[Alleine]

Usually I slip live grenades in their pockets, but they get suspicious when I run quickly out of the room.

I actually heavily advise against killing your players as it is illegal in most countries. Killing their characters is a much safer practice. :smallbiggrin:

[Calimehter]

Don't worry, this thread isn't nearly as bad as the title would imply.

I hope not. Killing players is kinda high up on the "DM is your opponent and not your storyteller" meter.

Edit: Ninja Assassin!!!

One way to minimize the chances for character death in 'normal' fights is to cut way down on any opponents that have "Save or Die" type abilities, as well as those who can simply deal out enough damage on a non-crit to take out a character in one go. Save those guys for the BBEG encounter.

[Ormagoden]

I usually use rocks... big rocks... from space

[The Big Dice]

Usually I slip live grenades in their pockets, but they get suspicious when I run quickly out of the room.

I actually heavily advise against killing your players as it is illegal in most countries. Killing their characters is a much safer practice. :smallbiggrin:

I'm sure everyone seeing the thread topic was thinking the same thing :smallbiggrin:

As for killing characters, I won't go out of my way to kill a character. But if one dies, it's going to be a consequence of a choice the player made. That choice could be pushing the governor's son into the river, or it could be deciding to charge when retreat was the sensible option. However the situation comes up, in game actions should always be the reason a character dies.

Anything else is just too easy.

[Logician]

Usually I slip live grenades in their pockets, but they get suspicious when I run quickly out of the room.

I actually heavily advise against killing your players as it is illegal in most countries. Killing their characters is a much safer practice. :smallbiggrin:

Yes but sticking to the safer method is what causes the problem of complacency which i am trying to solve. So long as my players know they are safe at the table they wont mind having to re-roll chars. Obviously i don't want this, i want tension, thus, my question.

Though i suppose advice should be given on that other matter as well, some DMs may find it useful.

[Tyndmyr]

Thus, I ask, what are good ways to kill players?

Any way that the cops don't find out about, I call good.

[Katana_Geldar]

When the DM has a VERY good night dice-wise and the players have a bad one. I've had one players fate hinge on my damage roll, which was low. And he would not let me fudge it.

Best thing? I had to roll anything but a natural 1 to miss him.

[Logician]

As for killing characters, I won't go out of my way to kill a character. But if one dies, it's going to be a consequence of a choice the player made. That choice could be pushing the governor's son into the river, or it could be deciding to charge when retreat was the sensible option. However the situation comes up, in game actions should always be the reason a character dies.

Anything else is just too easy.

I generally like this as well, however everyone in my group is very level-headed and intelligent, and aside from intentionally crafted plot scenarios i doubt they will mess up on their own very often.

Except for one player of course.... The one who shot the lieutenant of a small army in the presence of said army... and was then promptly killed withing 3 seconds by the 10 archers and 5 wizards with range... The party has just said they had nothing to do with him however.

Also he is a fairly large man, and i doubt i could kill him through means outside of explosives or poison, which my players will probably call unfair.

Also, i'm editing the post now.

[Reynard]

Best thing? I had to roll anything but a natural 1 to miss him.

Did you mean "hit him"? :smallwink:

[Katana_Geldar]

Um, yeah, guess I did. It's too early in the morning.

[Zanatos777]

When the DM has a VERY good night dice-wise and the players have a bad one. I've had one players fate hinge on my damage roll, which was low. And he would not let me fudge it.

Best thing? I had to roll anything but a natural 1 to miss him.

I had something like this happen. An archer blasted the party crusader down to almost nothing in a few shots and was almost certain to kill him with the remaining attacks only for me to roll three misses in a row...my players actually didn't believe me (I'm not sure if they do even now).

[Tyndmyr]

Thats when rolling without a screen is truly awesome. Shouting and celebrating usually ensue after a player survives entirely by a lucky roll of the die.

[Tengu_temp]

Let them accomplish something incredibly awesome with their death.

[Johel]

As suggested by LordShotGun here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174283)

Enraged, Enlarged house cats.
Tons of them.
With Stone Skin or another kind of annoying DR.

Now, more seriously, anything that involves sacrifice of the individual to further the overall success of the group in an hopeless situation will be welcome.
The paladin who holds off a horde of gnolls to allow his friends to keep further, even though he'll barely last ten rounds.
The monk who starts a grapple with a fire elemental to pin it for a few rounds, despite the heavy fire damages.
The sorcerer who casts a mere fireball to make the ice cave collapse rather than a teleport as his last spell because retreating would mean losing the ONE chance to kill the Big Bad.

A less epic but more fun variation is having the character acts in a manner that should result in a "worthy death", only to survive, albeit in a dire position.
Now the group has to chose QUICKLY between saving the character or succeeding in their goal.

The paladin has defeated the horde but is now dying. He can call his friend for help, as the hall is pretty narrow and sound travels well.
But getting back to help him might put the whole quest in jeopardy, as security is getting thicker.
Also, the paladin can hear something baaaad is coming his way. Will he actually call for help at all ?

The monk has survived, the elemental has been defeated but it jumped into a lava pit just before dying, pulling the monk with it.
The monk felt on a rock which is quickly drowning in the magma.
At the same time, if the party has an apocalypse device to stop.
They don't know how many rounds they still have. Tell "not long but "maybe enough to save him and get **** done... maybe".
The monk won't survive a bath, that's for sure...but then, the world's at stake.

The sorcerer made the cavern collapse and survived but then, so did the Big Bad, who's now sneaking away.
The sorcerer is crushed (but alive) under a big chunk of ice.
Saving him isn't a problem but then that means letting SOMEONE get away, with nearly no chance to ever get another shot at him.
The Mcguffin is safe, though, so both options are acceptable : it's merely a question of priority.

[Tyndmyr]

Start a war. Grab heroes of battle, and spend some time properly fleshing out the armies on both sides. RHoD may also prove useful for inspiration.

Crazy, crazy things happen in war, and it provides all kinds of opportunity for heroes to die in epic fashion while stopping Something Horrible from destroying everyone.

Edit: A fun house rule is to have any PC who takes enough damage to kill him completely dead without stopping at unconscious, get one extra turn to be used for last words/final heroic action. They're already dead, but they get to go out with a bang.

[Katana_Geldar]

Let them accomplish something incredibly awesome with their death.

Agreed. I said to the player if he died, he could have an awesome death scene.

[Tengu_temp]

Awesome death scene ideas:

The hero fights off a large group of much stronger enemies, stalling for time. His allies arrive on the scene when he collapses, and the last thing he sees is them defeating the enemies, none too late thanks to his sacrifice alone.
The hero and the BBEG duel in the latter's fortress over an artifact that would give the BBEG incredible power if he tapped its potential. The hero receives a fatal wound and, with his dying breath, breaks the artifact, causing an explosion that kills them both and destroys the fortress.
An enemy army is approaching quickly towards the kingdom. There is no time to do anything but flee now, and the heroes can do just that - but they also have an item that can give its wielder an incredible boost in power, at the cost of his life. Will they run, or will one of them use the item to destroy the army?
A villain is launching an incredibly strong attack at one of the heroes, an attack that the hero will surely not survive. But! One of the others throws himself into the way of the attack, sacrificing himself for his friend, and gives encouragement to the rest with his dying breath. His sacrifice angers the others so much they kill the villain in a curb-stomp battle.

The last of these happened in one of my games. The fun fact is, the villain was supposed to escape and appear later - but the dice were on the players' side, and it was so awesome that I just didn't have the heart to change it. They deserved it.

[Aotrs Commander]

I actually heavily advise against killing your players as it is illegal in most countries. Killing their characters is a much safer practice. :smallbiggrin:

I feel I must make my obligatory rebuttal that I find it much easier to kill and replace players than it is to faff about replacing characters. I have an endles stream of the former in the brig, I'm sorry, uh, Happy Player Living... um ...Box... And, er, anyway, I find an abrupt Maximised Disintegrate on a player is a great way to keep the rest in line. And you just get another one from the aforemention Happy thingy-whatever-it-was-I-said once you brust the dust off the character sheet.

[1337 b4k4]

For handling random deaths, I like the cinematic rule. Think Boromir in LOTR. He was at 0HP the moment the second arrow went into his chest, but he went down fighting in a glorious blaze of battle. So it should be with your players. The rule I follow is that when a character reaches 0HP they are dead. For as many rounds as they have CON, they can continue to act. During these last few rounds, anything can happen (find ways to say yes). Break out the cheater dice (two 20's, no 1), skip the rolling entirely, double the damage, blow up buildings, leap upon the BBEG and pull him off the cliff with you, do whatever it takes to make these last few rounds as cinematic and epic as possible. The only catch is that regardless of what happens in those last few rounds, the character will die at the end. No potions or healing spells will stop that.

[panaikhan]

Of recent character deaths, things have been a bit sucky for me.

One long combat a few weeks ago killed three characters in the party (including mine), because defeating the monster caused it to explode. DM had a lucky damage roll.

A more recent death was my thief missing their detect traps roll (I apparently needed a natural 19 or 20), then opening a door. Lightning trap. Fluffed Reflex save. 20HP (max), 40 damage.

In our group, the DM doesn't need help...:smalleek:

[jiriku]

Thus, I ask, what are good ways to kill PCs? Good being leaves the player in question not feeling like their death wasn't stupid or random (though not necessarily epic).

The most important thing is simply for the PCs to be fighting over something meaningful. I avoid "random encounters" almost entirely when running games, and try as much as possible for combats to be about something, especially the difficult combats that have ECL higher than the party's level. The players aren't just fighting bandits or killing some beast that lives in a cave. They're hunting down a drug dealer in his safehouse, or trying to capture a couatl, or protecting the Empress from a scry'n'die assassination attempt.

When the PCs are fighting over something meaningful, any PC deaths are also meaningful.

[Oracle_Hunter]

In general, PCs should die in one of the following ways:

(1) Trying to achieve something awesome
(2) As a result of their obvious stupidity
(3) In a hilarious fashion

As a rule, if your character died solely as the result of a single bad roll, it was a bad death. A lucky crit after a long battle is one thing; a goblin with a greataxe taking off your head first round is another.

Remember: a "normal encounter" stops being one when the Players become afraid for their characters' lives. Give them time to develop that fear, and it will be a Good Death :xykon:

[Ruinix]

i kill PCs when they fail in strategy or gather infomation (the way to play not the skill) of the quest/campaing/what ever.

when they bring simple knifes to a magic battle is when they deserve to die.

usually i made the all campaing with 2 or 3 hooks and backup plans for my BBEG to miss inform and lead to a trap the PC group.

[The Big Dice]

In general, PCs should die in one of the following ways:

(1) Trying to achieve something awesome
(2) As a result of their obvious stupidity
(3) In a hilarious fashion
Ahhh, players long since moved out of the area. I used to game with a guy who could acheive all three of these in one go. And do it roughly once a month.

[Seffbasilisk]

I recommend having a reoccuring villain kill one while they're tending to something of personal relevance.

IE: Paladin rescues a kitty from a tree for a little peasant girl, waves goodbye to her, and his eyes go wide, his expression slack and surprised, and a little blood dribbles from the corner of his mouth. A black hat, following by a cruelly scarred and grinning face rises over his left shoulder, holding the hilt to a longsword embedded in his back.

"Smile for the little girl, pretender. Tell me. Did your false god protect you from death attacks?"

[KingMerv00]

Depends. How do you run raise dead and ressurection?

If you have a revolving door afterflife, death becomes just another status temporary condition like sickened or stunned.

As a DM I limit the number of rezzes for both the players and NPCs. Keeps things more dramatic.

[Severus]

I like an item that our DM just dropped on us.

We're in a great war against some epic bads. So we go hunting some items of slaying against the epic bads and come across a device that casts an incredibly powerful slaying spell on its target. The catch is it casts the same spell on you, basically fueling the effect with your soul energy.

So you can be the great hero, but the odds are greatly in favor of you dying and being unresurrectable.

Many variations on the idea are possible, but it basically offers the player the chance to off themselves to save the day.

[mikeejimbo]

One of the "problems" with a high possibility of character mortality is that the players tend to not get attached to their characters at all. In my group, it has become a running joke that any time we're faced with a dangerous situation, I utter "So for my next character..."

I put "problem" in quotes because this isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on the mood/tone/etc of the campaign/group/etc.

[Silus]

Very rarely has my DM thrown a BBG at us. We've usually gotten killed due to some stupid accident or something. However, one awesome instance stick out in my mind.

Thrown in a Spoiler due to length.


So, we're on this flying pirate ship, flying over this island, looking for this hidden base that holds a Stargate style time portal. The objective, originally, was to sneak in, set it to self-destruct, and get back to our own time.

Well, the DM wasn't expecting us to fly around the island, so soon, we passed through this illusionary dome, and BAM! Right in the middle of a Spelljammer dry dock. This Psion lady (who later turned out to be the DM's former character :smallannoyed:) somehow turned the dome to stone, sealing us inside. I had the idea to go higher into the dome where it was pitch black, as about 4/5ths of us (Players and pirates) had Darkvision, so we could hunt them up there in the dark. Well the Sheb**** ended up blowing us out of the sky. We crash, make for the armory, and get jumped. Somehow, the Dwarf in the group somehow sold his soul to Pazuzu, in return for....something. Anyway, the Armory became perma-locked, and the people that jumped us were removed from the picture.

So we get to the Time Portal building, and a portal opens up. Out of the portal, straight from the Abyss, riding an Abyssal Purple Worm and followed by a group of Ogres, came the last of our party, a Prinny. So we all get into the building and are deciding how to destroy the portal, when the Sheb**** walks in, monologues, and offers to send us through the portal, back to our own time. Well, since we had to destroy the portal, that wasn't an option. So combat breaks out, and she just wrecks us (16 Psion/4 Rogue). She two-shots the Worm and essentially wipes the floor with us.

So it's down to just me (Half-Machine Human Ranger) and a Dwarf Fighter (or Barbarian, I forget) make a break for it towards the shipyards to jack a Spelljammer to make a last ditch attempt at destroying the portal. Well, the DM does a dickish thing and makes it so we can't pilot the ship (Requires magic to operate), so instead, we get the cannons ready as the Psion lady finishes off the Prinny. We open fire, taking out the portal.

I then PK'ed the Dwarf, who had been the one that initiated combat in the first place. On the plus side, even as level 3's, we dropped her from 100 HP down to 15HP and made her burn through like 90% of her power points.

[vjbp]

well, in our's game, DM allows us to have as much rezz as we want... losing a level, but you get to live. there is the limitation, 'thou. you can't make more then 2 PCs (like, one dies, and you decide you don't want to play with him anymore, or it would be in character that he stays dead, or whatever; you can make another..)

anyways, so far, the most deaths are experienced by the skweeshiest in our group (he's worse then me, and I'm a freaking gnome); the count must be somewhere around... 10? 15? there were few sessions when he'd die like at least two times, so we started givin' him awards when he'd live... :smalltongue:

if you must kill the PCs, let them be killed by own stupidity. and make it funny as hell, so no-one would get too upset. :smallsmile:

[Nachtritter]

The most entertaining death I've ever had in character was in college. We blew up half a mountain with "thundersticks" (read: dynamite made from dwarven lore) in order to access an ancient and forgotten mine.

What we hadn't counted on was the huge amount of Gelatinous Cubes that had taken up residence in the mine in the meantime. Or that the area we'd dynamited - about 50 feet up the mountain - we one of their prime "breeding" areas.

Yes, we died under an avalanche of Gelatinous Cubes. To our credit, the GM said they were the most surprised and startled Gelatinous Cubes we'd ever seen.

Now, as for actually killing characters, I've always felt that the rogue wizard who casts a fairly innocuous illusion spell on a giant monster of some kind (i.e., making a Stone Golem look like a little girl in precious little curls) and then having them wreck havoc on the unsuspecting players is always good for a mightily confused death or two. :smallbiggrin:

[The J Pizzel]

Star Wars spoiler:

The way Chewbacca died in the Star Wars novels.A moon falls on him while saving Han's son. Seriously, a f**king moon.

[KingMerv00]

Now, as for actually killing characters, I've always felt that the rogue wizard who casts a fairly innocuous illusion spell on a giant monster of some kind (i.e., making a Stone Golem look like a little girl in precious little curls) and then having them wreck havoc on the unsuspecting players is always good for a mightily confused death or two. :smallbiggrin:

Well naturally the PC's get a will save everytime they hit/get hit by the cute little girl (because surely that counts as "interacting"). If they can't make a will save after the 12th try, they deserve to be confused.