Signature Spell and heighten spell feats - any ruleing?

[bot]

I'm building a shadowcraft mage for a campaign soon, however i'm having second thoughts about the use of heightened spell use on my signature spell (silent image) - anyone know if it's sanctioned by Sage, any official source, ect or if it's just an assumption on people's behalf because they think it's a sweet trick?

[Keld Denar]

It is legal. You can apply metamagic to spontaneous spells. Check out the description of clerics. They essentially have Signature Spell for all cure/inflict spells. The issue with this, is that applying MM on the fly increases the casting time to a full round action. This can ALSO be counteracted with the Rapid Metamagic feat in Complete Arcane, but that is another feat required for an already feat taxed build. Even with 2 flaws, you're in trouble to get Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Mastery, Signature Spell, Rapid Metamagic and still have room left over for the fun stuff like Residual Metamagic and Practical Metamagic.

[bot]

It is legal. You can apply metamagic to spontaneous spells. Check out the description of clerics. They essentially have Signature Spell for all cure/inflict spells. The issue with this, is that applying MM on the fly increases the casting time to a full round action. This can ALSO be counteracted with the Rapid Metamagic feat in Complete Arcane, but that is another feat required for an already feat taxed build. Even with 2 flaws, you're in trouble to get Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Mastery, Signature Spell, Rapid Metamagic and still have room left over for the fun stuff like Residual Metamagic and Practical Metamagic.

Aha! Lovely, thanks I guess I just need someone to to connect the dots for me.

Yes, rapid metamagic is probably not going to happen on this char, especially since we don't play with flaw rules : )

[Keld Denar]

Really, Signature Spell is overkill. If you are playing as a Focused Specialist, you'll have 3 slots per level to devote to Shadow Illusion. Thats a TON of versatility right there. You'd get a lot more versatility, staying power, and spontinaity out of Residual Metamagic while burning up 0th - 1st level spell slots for full strength Shadow Illusions.

[bot]

Really, Signature Spell is overkill. If you are playing as a Focused Specialist, you'll have 3 slots per level to devote to Shadow Illusion. Thats a TON of versatility right there. You'd get a lot more versatility, staying power, and spontinaity out of Residual Metamagic while burning up 0th - 1st level spell slots for full strength Shadow Illusions.

You might be right, and yea I am focused specialist.

I also had residual metamagic in my build, up until 10mins ago when i found i had made a miscalculation on number of feats. I'll consider dropping signature spell, tho i was quite keen on it so I best sleep on it before making any rash decisions :)

Thanks so far

edit: spellcheck

[Keld Denar]

Here is Par von Foodle (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153340), my 8th level gnomie ScM for a game that died long ago. I did use flaws, but have most of the tricks you'll need. The biggest trick is to use Pearl of Power 1s with Residual Metamagic. First you cast your max heightened spell. The next round, you cast one from a 0th or 1st level slot which is automatically heightened to max level from Residual Metamagic. Later, after the combat, use a low level cheap Pearl of Power to recall the 0th or 1st level spell you spent with Residual Metamagic. This essentially doubles the number of spell slots you get for the low price of 1000g per spell slot.

[bot]

Here is Par von Foodle (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153340), my 8th level gnomie ScM for a game that died long ago. I did use flaws, but have most of the tricks you'll need. The biggest trick is to use Pearl of Power 1s with Residual Metamagic. First you cast your max heightened spell. The next round, you cast one from a 0th or 1st level slot which is automatically heightened to max level from Residual Metamagic. Later, after the combat, use a low level cheap Pearl of Power to recall the 0th or 1st level spell you spent with Residual Metamagic. This essentially doubles the number of spell slots you get for the low price of 1000g per spell slot.

wow super thanks for the tip and link. It was very helpfull to look Par over for spell list among other things. Nice flavor in background story also.

I'm probably deciding that i'm skipping mastery and signature spell, i was pretty feat starved already.

[jiriku]

Here is Par von Foodle (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153340), my 8th level gnomie ScM for a game that died long ago. I did use flaws, but have most of the tricks you'll need. The biggest trick is to use Pearl of Power 1s with Residual Metamagic. First you cast your max heightened spell. The next round, you cast one from a 0th or 1st level slot which is automatically heightened to max level from Residual Metamagic. Later, after the combat, use a low level cheap Pearl of Power to recall the 0th or 1st level spell you spent with Residual Metamagic. This essentially doubles the number of spell slots you get for the low price of 1000g per spell slot.

Wait, what? Do I understand correctly that you're casting silent image or somesuch out of a first-level slot with a free residual Heighten, and that when you recall the spell with the PoP, it brings back the spell with the spontaneously applied free metamagic still attached? That's...really nice.

[Keld Denar]

No, you aren't recalling it with the metamagic applied. You can, however, trigger it on a subsequent Residual Metamagic combo.

Story Time!

Par von Foodle, a frugal Shadowcraft Mage has two 1st level Silent Images, two 3rd level Silent Image, and two 4th level Silent Image.

Round one of combat, Par casts a 4th level Silent Image, using Shadow Illusion to make it emulate Par's Beshadowed Tentacles, a Conjouration(Creation) spell.

Round two of combat, Par casts a 1st level Silent Image. Residual Metamagic triggers and automatically heightens the spell up to 4th level, allowing Par to emulate another 4th level spell, say...Summon Monster IV to get some minions to beat on the poor bad guys trapped in his Par's Beshadowed Tentacles.

Round three of combat, the shadow summons just aren't getting the job done, so Par casts one of his 3rd level Silent Images, this time emulating a Darkfireball, an Evocation. Par's Darkfireball does 10d6 damage, and all is good.

Round four of combat, ITS STILL NOT DEAD!!!!! Par, tapping once more into his Residual Metamagic, casts his second 1st level Silent Image which is automagically Heightened up to 3rd level. Par sculpts this shadowstuff into a Blacklightning Bolt that finally manages to slay the remaining foe.

After combat, Par reaches into his Haversack and pulls out 2 Pearls of Power I. Staring intently at each one, Par recalls the two spent 1st level Silent Images. He now has two 1st level, one 3rd level, and one 4th level Silent Images remaining.

Next combat, Par casts his spells again in the same combination: 4th, 1st, 3rd, 1st with a result of 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd. If he didn't have the Pearls to get back those 1st level spells, he would have only been able to cast one 4th and one 3rd, but because of them he gets DOUBLE the spells in the 2nd encounter.


Make sense? If you are out of high level spells, Pearling back 1st level Silent Images doesn't help you much, but as long as you have high level slots and Residual Metamagic, you can turn each of those pearls into a higher level slot with the proper timing and application of Shadow Illusion!

[jiriku]

OK, now I get it. That's...really efficient. 'Tis a shame I hate gnomes with the burning fury of a thousand suns. Perhaps a whisper gnome could make this work without triggering my gag reflex....

[Keld Denar]

Regular Gnome > Whisper Gnome for ScM because of the +1 DC of illusions for MOST of your life. Once you get past 100% reality, its a little bit of a drawback, but not enough to warrent not doing it. ScM is just that good.