My Players Dawdle

[Magugag]

A lot.

I'm currently DMing a survival campaign set in a magical take on a zombie (or rather, undead) apocalypse. It's going pretty swimmingly so far, but there's one thing that not only limits how much we can get done in a night, but also tears people right out of the emotion of the moment: My players will sit around, sometimes for half an hour or more, discussing what should be done about a particular situation. It's normally heavily OOC; they often begin talking in roleplaying terms but quickly degrade to talking about game mechanics.

I understand why they might be hesitant to just tromp down that dark hallway with low visibility. They're all attached to their characters, and there's nothing wrong with that. But they seem afraid of risk-taking, they constantly slip out of roleplaying their characters when they come to these challenges, and there's absolutely no decisiveness among them. I'm not sure how unusual this is, but it's getting to be a problem. I don't want them spending half of our game night in three rooms, if I can avoid it.

I'm resistant to the idea of putting a time limit on these things. I feel that doesn't really solve the problem; I don't want them to stop thinking about what they're doing, necessarily. In this campaign, that would kill them all anyways. :P But does anyone have any suggestions for how to get them to dawdle less, be more in-character, or at least to encourage them to work as a team?

[Pie Guy]

Well, these are real people in these scenarios. Maybe running down that hallway is something you'd stop to think about.

[Magugag]

True enough, but sitting around for thirty minutes deciding how to tackle a single hallway without any action is pretty ridiculous, especially if you decide that their discussion takes place in real time among their characters. Take into account that we've got a reckless half-orc barbarian, a resolutely brave paladin of Kord, a pious Cleric of Pelor and a ranger with a deep-seated hatred of the undead, and the reaction gets a bit less realistic.

[Kaun]

Don't stop time in game for the OOC chats,

Put them into situations where there isn't time for them to stop and think about it.

Keep things in the world happening while they are chatting.

for example, if they are sitting at the mouth of the ally way trying to figure out what to do have the sounds of aproaching undead start to eminate from the way they came.

[jumpet]

I don't want them to stop thinking about what they're doing, necessarily. In this campaign, that would kill them all anyways.

This might have something to do with it. If there is a general paranoia that one wrong step will lead to a TPK then of course the players will start to overthink things and become paralysed with indecision.

I'd try to convery the message that you're not going to punish the group on making roleplaying choices or suboptimal tactics. Just as long as there is some degree of sound reasoning behind their decisions you won't be throwing them into the deepend. At least not without sufficient clues and hints that its time to make a tactical withdrawal.

Also often players look for visual clues of approval from the dm when thinking up plans. This can help point them in the right direction

[Warlawk]

Don't stop time in game for the OOC chats,

Put them into situations where there isn't time for them to stop and think about it.

Keep things in the world happening while they are chatting.

for example, if they are sitting at the mouth of the ally way trying to figure out what to do have the sounds of aproaching undead start to eminate from the way they came.

This would absolutely be my suggestion as well. I actually suffer from the same problem, though I am a player in the game. In our regular group, I make virtually every decision that moves the game forward. I tried in one game to play a character who was a follower and not a leader, nothing got done. I think the quoted suggestion is probably the best choice if no one is stepping up and leading. Show them a few times that making quick decisions will not kill them and maybe they'll get the hint.

[Gamer Girl]

Tip 1-This is the classic move. Simply start a fire under them. The idea is to make where ever they are unpleasant to say the least, hostile at worse. I simple random encounter with two guards, one that runs away, can give them the idea that 'we'd better get moving before more show up'. For an undead type game, a nice ghost goblin could work. Strange noises also work, as do strange lights. You can even role play it out(Guy in black armor walks over-"Excuse me where is the evil overlords room?'' and chats with the PC's, gets suspicious about them and then 'remembers' another place he needs to be and moves off)

Tip 2-Give the PC's a gift or two. This is a bit sneaky, but it works. When the PC's kill a monster and find 1,000 gp worth of treasure, make that '1,000', 20 potions of cure light wounds(or 5 moderate), give them a couple of cure-type wands with less then 20 charges, plus scrolls. You might want to go a bit 'beyond' what their wealth should be by the book. The idea is to make them feel a bit safe. Plenty of PC's will take great risks, if they have a backpack full of healing potions.

Tip 3-Avoid things that make them stop and wonder, like dark hallways. Just have a bit of light in the hallway. Then they won't be so worried. Try to give them a good number of easy outs. Door 1 and 2 are covered in blood, but door 3 is normal looking..what door to pick?

Tip 4-Avoid traps, they scare players like yours. You can still use traps, of course, just make them a bit faulty. Like give them a minus to hit or let them have a rotten dart or such. So they take little or no damage.

Tip 5-Bait. When they see a shiny gold crown across a room with a checkerboard floor...some PC's will be over come by greed.

[Rodimal]

Tip 1-This is the classic move. Simply start a fire under them. The idea is to make where ever they are unpleasant to say the least, hostile at worse. I simple random encounter with two guards, one that runs away, can give them the idea that 'we'd better get moving before more show up'. For an undead type game, a nice ghost goblin could work. Strange noises also work, as do strange lights. You can even role play it out(Guy in black armor walks over-"Excuse me where is the evil overlords room?'' and chats with the PC's, gets suspicious about them and then 'remembers' another place he needs to be and moves off)

Tip 2-Give the PC's a gift or two. This is a bit sneaky, but it works. When the PC's kill a monster and find 1,000 gp worth of treasure, make that '1,000', 20 potions of cure light wounds(or 5 moderate), give them a couple of cure-type wands with less then 20 charges, plus scrolls. You might want to go a bit 'beyond' what their wealth should be by the book. The idea is to make them feel a bit safe. Plenty of PC's will take great risks, if they have a backpack full of healing potions.

Tip 3-Avoid things that make them stop and wonder, like dark hallways. Just have a bit of light in the hallway. Then they won't be so worried. Try to give them a good number of easy outs. Door 1 and 2 are covered in blood, but door 3 is normal looking..what door to pick?

Tip 4-Avoid traps, they scare players like yours. You can still use traps, of course, just make them a bit faulty. Like give them a minus to hit or let them have a rotten dart or such. So they take little or no damage.

Tip 5-Bait. When they see a shiny gold crown across a room with a checkerboard floor...some PC's will be over come by greed.


Act and react like everything they are saying OOC is being said in character for all to hear. Including and especially the bad guys.


Out

[Evil DM Mark3]

If you take some of this fine advice, let them know first. Seriously, do not spring this on the party for you will have uproar. Tell them in a calm and open manner and explain why you are doing it.

[Kaun]

If you take some of this fine advice, let them know first. Seriously, do not spring this on the party for you will have uproar. Tell them in a calm and open manner and explain why you are doing it.

The opposit of this, if they cant take a suprise then may i suggest Farmvil may be more their pace.

[Rasman]

Don't stop time in game for the OOC chats,

Put them into situations where there isn't time for them to stop and think about it.

Keep things in the world happening while they are chatting.

for example, if they are sitting at the mouth of the ally way trying to figure out what to do have the sounds of aproaching undead start to eminate from the way they came.

this is the situation I would use, it does wonders for the group I'm in, we were rushed by Winter Wolves because our Wizard wouldn't shut up, so we make haste when being attacked

when Zombies are beating on the door behind you, you don't get 20 minutes to decide which way to go and ways of holding the door...unless that's a really strong door...so, unless all your doors are reinforced adamantine, I'd start rushing their in game time with their own out of game convos


If you take some of this fine advice, let them know first. Seriously, do not spring this on the party for you will have uproar. Tell them in a calm and open manner and explain why you are doing it.


The opposite of this, if they cant take a surprise then may i suggest Farmville may be more their pace.

Kaun is right, this will add to the realism of the situation...the WHOLE point of an RPG is to BE someone else in a DIFFERENT situation, not to sit at a table and pretend to swing an imaginary sword and a zombie that only exists in your brain or as a piece on a board

[Dralnu]

My players will sit around, sometimes for half an hour or more, discussing what should be done about a particular situation. It's normally heavily OOC; they often begin talking in roleplaying terms but quickly degrade to talking about game mechanics.


PCs only have the luxury of sitting around and planning endlessly when they're not under time constrictions. You can get around this issue by simply introducing scenerios where they have time restraints.

Our first (and most amazing) DM had a 6 second rule for combat rounds. If you're spending time over-analyzing a situation and optimal choices, he begins counting down from 6. If you run out of time, you delay. This makes perfect since IC because each round is 6 seconds, so it doesn't make sense for the character to have an indefinite time to think about their next move while in the moment.

When I started DM'ing, I adopted that rule and then came across your same issue: people sat around thinking too much. So, just like combat has time restraints, so too can noncombat scenerios.

This isn't arbitrary out of game ruling, of course. Force a legitimate sense of urgency. One way is imminent danger. They're being chased by spooky stuff. Cloudkill is seeping into the room. They're swimming through underwater tunnels and don't know how long they can hold their breath for -- AND half-dragon sharks are chasing them. Boulder chase, indiana jones style, or a boulder made out of bloody corpses if you want horror.

There's other ways to instill urgency that isn't just immediate pain. A PC could get infected with a disease, maybe ghoul disease, and must seek a cure before he turns into an undead. A dark ritual must be stopped before it occurs at sunset. The mansion must be properly barricaded before the undead arrive. Their only transport out of the city will be leaving soon and they have to get there in time.

Putting IC clocks on the group really cut down the dawdling in my group. It's also just plain good storytelling and adds to the drama of the whole thing.

[Evil DM Mark3]

The opposit of this, if they cant take a suprise then may i suggest Farmvil may be more their pace.You start having in game time move along with real time without telling them you will have a serious problem at the table. They will not like the fact that you have changed the rules on them without letting them know.

[Rasman]

You start having in game time move along with real time without telling them you will have a serious problem at the table. They will not like the fact that you have changed the rules on them without letting them know.

if you're a DM that isn't feared a little bit, then you're doing it wrong...besides, with no surprises, there's no danger, you're just in your little comfort zone and picking your nose with Timmy the second level Paladin that wants to know if he can cut the guy's head off and wear it on his belt

[Killer Angel]

I'm resistant to the idea of putting a time limit on these things. I feel that doesn't really solve the problem; I don't want them to stop thinking about what they're doing, necessarily. In this campaign, that would kill them all anyways. :P But does anyone have any suggestions for how to get them to dawdle less, be more in-character, or at least to encourage them to work as a team?

Did you already tried to speak with the players, explaining your problem?
When it happens to me, I try to remember them the characters they're supposed to be.
Planning is OK; but as you said, an undead-slayer dedicated meleer, won't stop for too long...

[psychoticbarber]

if you're a DM that isn't feared a little bit, then you're doing it wrong...besides, with no surprises, there's no danger, you're just in your little comfort zone and picking your nose with Timmy the second level Paladin that wants to know if he can cut the guy's head off and wear it on his belt

Eugh, never been a fan of this argument. My players didn't fear me and I got along quite well, thanks.

That said, it's good to light a fire under them, but you should provide an out of character warning that the pace might pick up without the players if they take too long, and some in character warnings that things are going march on without them if they take their time before they get seriously punished for it.

[FelixG]

Could do a combination of them, they are sitting there, give them a warning in game, as soon as they start going OOC and talking mechanics spring it on them, if they freak out after the battle just tell them that they should stay in character and life and death situations have a limited response time

[Psyx]

Pressure them...

There are zombies coming up behind them, a passage in front... the stop to faff... Tell them 'the zombies will be on you in ten seconds... ten.... nine...'

If you get to 'zero' go to combat rounds. Keep the pressure on. They may try to 'stall' with questions 'what's the corridor floor like' and such... answer in one word and then resume counting. They don't have time to take all the details in, after all.

After all: Zombie films are about rush and tension... remove that and it's less fun.

[bokodasu]

Get a set of sand timers; use the 5-minute one for rest times, the 3-minute one for a quick breather, and the 1-minute one for any given player's turn. You didn't finish whatever you were doing when the sand ran out? Too bad, your turn is over, now there's a zombie eatin' yur brainz.

It sounds kind of harsh, but you don't have to use it for long - generally players get the idea and start speeding things up and you only have to break them out when they go back to their formerly pokey ways.

[mikeejimbo]

Tip 3-Avoid things that make them stop and wonder, like dark hallways. Just have a bit of light in the hallway. Then they won't be so worried. Try to give them a good number of easy outs. Door 1 and 2 are covered in blood, but door 3 is normal looking..what door to pick?

Hehe, this wouldn't work in my group.

"So clearly door number three is the one you want us to go through - which means it's obviously a trap! But wait, you might have expected that, which means I can clearly not trust the wine in your cup!"

[Mercenary Pen]

Hehe, this wouldn't work in my group.

"So clearly door number three is the one you want us to go through - which means it's obviously a trap! But wait, you might have expected that, which means I can clearly not trust the wine in your cup!"

In which case the answer is obviously to have the floor start to fall away from under their feet- it doesn't even have to be a trap, it could simply be they are treading a hallway that has the ceiling joists of the floor underneath rotting away.

[ashmanonar]

Hehe, this wouldn't work in my group.

"So clearly door number three is the one you want us to go through - which means it's obviously a trap! But wait, you might have expected that, which means I can clearly not trust the wine in your cup!"

Then introduce a character that identifies himself as a Sicilian?

Inconceivable!

[SamsDisciple]

My d&d group normally doesn't have this problem but take those same people and start playing gurps and its a whole new ballgame. Normally its still in character but we take over an hour planning how we are going to storm the research facility then when its time to roll the dice we just rush in headfirst and ignore the planning we just did.

[Xiander]

As i see it there are two problems. One: your players are afraid of making a bad choice, which leads to excessive discussion. Two: your players tend to fall out of character while discussing.

Most of the advice already given works fine on problem one, as long as the discussion is in character. If for example the cleric and the paladin are discussing wether or not to go down the dark hallway, and they are pressured by persuers, they will use less time or be forced to make a decission at some point.

Out of character this does not work. You can´t threaten or cajole John into quickly deciding what his cleric character will do. Which means that problem two makes it a bit harder to solve problem one.
If i had this problem with my players i would probably try to use a carrot instead of a stick, to get them to stay in character. Give a small but significant xp bonus to any player who keeps their charater ingame. Make sure you tell them you will do this before you start doing it, otherwise it´s likely not to work.


One last thing, try telling them that you would like them to stay in character. And the point out to them when they drop out of character. Making them notice is a good first step.

[thompur]

PCs only have the luxury of sitting around and planning endlessly when they're not under time constrictions. You can get around this issue by simply introducing scenerios where they have time restraints.

Our first (and most amazing) DM had a 6 second rule for combat rounds. If you're spending time over-analyzing a situation and optimal choices, he begins counting down from 6. If you run out of time, you delay. This makes perfect since IC because each round is 6 seconds, so it doesn't make sense for the character to have an indefinite time to think about their next move while in the moment.

When I started DM'ing, I adopted that rule and then came across your same issue: people sat around thinking too much. So, just like combat has time restraints, so too can noncombat scenerios.

This isn't arbitrary out of game ruling, of course. Force a legitimate sense of urgency. One way is imminent danger. They're being chased by spooky stuff. Cloudkill is seeping into the room. They're swimming through underwater tunnels and don't know how long they can hold their breath for -- AND half-dragon sharks are chasing them. Boulder chase, indiana jones style, or a boulder made out of bloody corpses if you want horror.

There's other ways to instill urgency that isn't just immediate pain. A PC could get infected with a disease, maybe ghoul disease, and must seek a cure before he turns into an undead. A dark ritual must be stopped before it occurs at sunset. The mansion must be properly barricaded before the undead arrive. Their only transport out of the city will be leaving soon and they have to get there in time.

Putting IC clocks on the group really cut down the dawdling in my group. It's also just plain good storytelling and adds to the drama of the whole thing.

With lasers! Don't forget the frikkin' lasers!

[Rasman]

well, if you're afraid of surprising them, then you could always try British Zombies and have the Zombies, in game, politely tell them that

"excuse me, Sir Timmy Zombiebane, I do hate to be a bother, but we're breaking in if you don't run or hide yourself in the lavatory. Your door will last for about 18 seconds now, oh, sorry chap, 12 seconds now. Oh dear, would you mind not holding it shut, you're making it hard for us to prepare our tea..."


Hehe, this wouldn't work in my group.

"So clearly door number three is the one you want us to go through - which means it's obviously a trap! But wait, you might have expected that, which means I can clearly not trust the wine in your cup!"

"The Sicilian Complex" as I like to call it...wonderful reference and VERY true.


Inconceivable!

I'm...not sure you understand the meaning of that word...

[Skorj]

Wow, so many replies and no one has mentioned Left4Dead? In that game, any time the players dawdle for more than a few seconds, a ravening horde of dozens of high-speed zombies attacks. Because you know the game works that way, you adjust your tactics accordingly. (As others have said, never change the rules without a warning.)

[Gamer Girl]

Hehe, this wouldn't work in my group.

"So clearly door number three is the one you want us to go through - which means it's obviously a trap! But wait, you might have expected that, which means I can clearly not trust the wine in your cup!"


I game with people too young to have seen this movie(It has no special effects? Lame!, as they would say....)

[Xyk]

Don't stop time in game for the OOC chats,

Put them into situations where there isn't time for them to stop and think about it.

Keep things in the world happening while they are chatting.

for example, if they are sitting at the mouth of the ally way trying to figure out what to do have the sounds of aproaching undead start to eminate from the way they came.

That's nearly word-for-word the advice I was gonna give. That's what I do and it works wonders.

[Rasman]

I game with people too young to have seen this movie(It has no special effects? Lame!, as they would say....)

YOU'RE NEVER TOO YOUNG FOR THE PRINCESS BRIDE!!!

Left4Dead is an EXCELLENT example, I was kind of drawing from that, but I didn't want to outright say it because, well...I kind of view it as a cult game and few people would understand me running around screaming "PILLLLLLZZZZ HEAR!!?!?!11!" or "Francis, what do you not hate?" "I don't hate vests."

[Warlawk]

YOU'RE NEVER TOO YOUNG FOR THE PRINCESS BRIDE!!!


Exactly. We own a copy [shifty eyes], you know... for the kids.

[Fiery Diamond]

Eugh, never been a fan of this argument. My players didn't fear me and I got along quite well, thanks.

That said, it's good to light a fire under them, but you should provide an out of character warning that the pace might pick up without the players if they take too long, and some in character warnings that things are going march on without them if they take their time before they get seriously punished for it.

Completely agreed. Especially with the first paragraph. My players loved how I DMed in college. And they did not fear me. At all. In fact, out of two and a half years of gaming, there was only one character death that was not planned out beforehand. (this was two separate games, btw)

[Rasman]

Exactly. We own a copy [shifty eyes], you know... for the kids.

of...course you do...

Peanut...that is all...

*darts off into mysterious corridor without taking 10 minutes to think about it*

:smallbiggrin: Topic Pun Intended :smallbiggrin:

[Magugag]

I admit, I do want there to be a certain fear. I don't want my players to think that I'm out to get them, but I don't want them to think that there's absolutely no danger to their characters, either. This is a dangerous world, where things like death and dismemberment are completely possible.

I really have to thank you all for the responses; I have another game session tonight, and I'm going to try the 'light a fire under them' method and see how that works. I never expected to get so much help and support!

[Kaun]

'light a fire under them'

No method, actualy light a fire under them.

[Rasman]

No method, actualy light a fire under them.

I support this message

...oh oh...if one of them dies...literally light them on fire...all problems can be solved with ample amounts of fire :smallbiggrin: