Demonic Creation (Life In Hell Supplement)

[DragonOfUndeath]

instead of homebrewing a bunch of different Demon Races we (the people posting here: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172430)) decided to have a generic Demon race and a Demonic class. the class would have a bunch of options and basically be a Build-It-Yourself Demon Kit.

here is what we got so far:

The Demon

Hit Die:d8

Skill Points at 1st Level:(8+Int Mod)x4
Skill Points for Additional Levels:8+Int Mod

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:?

{table=header]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Level Bonus|Demonic Power
1|+1|+2|+2|+2|Demon Traits|1
2|+2|+3|+3|+3|Ability|2
3|+3|+3|+3|+3||3
4|+4|+4|+4|+4|Ability|3
5|+5|+4|+4|+4||4
6|+6|+5|+5|+5|Ability|5
7|+7|+5|+5|+5||6
8|+8|+6|+6|+6|Ability|6
9|+9|+6|+6|+6||7
10|+10|+7|+7|+7|Ability|8
11|+11|+7|+7|+7||9
12|+12|+8|+8|+8|Ability|9
13|+13|+8|+8|+8||10
14|+14|+9|+9|+9|Ability|11
15|+15|+9|+9|+9||12
16|+16|+10|+10|+10|Ability|12
17|+17|+10|+10|+10||13
18|+18|+11|+11|+11|Ability|14
19|+19|+11|+11|+11||15
20|+20|+12|+12|+12|Ability|15
[/table]


Design Notes: I took the Outsider type and put it in chart for per level, I used the Warlocks Invocation progression bumped up a little. This is just a rough draft, we'd need powers and abilities for them overall. The outsider HD is d8, not sure if it should stay that way though. For the 1st level Demon Trait part, I think that should be a group of abilities to choose from depending on what the demon was created for. Berserkers would get Rage like abilities and could improve them as they level. Shadows could gain...well Shadow abilities that they could improve upon, Seducers could gain alternate forms and so forth.

we need Abilitites, Powers and maybe refining the progression if needed. any thoughts?

[akma]

What does the demonic power column exectly means?
And there are no demon traits listed.

And here are some abilities to add to demons:
1. Possesion. Will fit more incorporal demons.
2. Shapechanging.
3. Controlling someone`s movements without controlling him. Somehow I feel the demons with this ability should look less round.
4. Seeing someone`s mental weaknesses.
5. Attacks based on demonic energies.
6. Enslaving victims.
7. Framing other beings as being demonic.
8. Making someone`s shadow attack him.
9. Hiding in someone`s shadow.
10. Causing insanity.
11. Whispering into minds.
12. Causing/taking away emotions. Causing emotions would be problamatic since it would completly change the emotion drug industry.
13. Speak with a voice of another: Ability to mimick any voice perfectly.
14. Control scent: An ability to control how you smell, and mimick any smell perfectly.
15. Crippling: Through various magical torture techniques, certain demons can remove abilities from creatures permanantly. They could remove the regeneration ability from a troll with this ability, for exemple. The process is very painfull and takes hours.
16. Inspire: The demon inserts an idea into a mortal mind - it could be a way to "invent" a new powerfull spell, or the realization that the red that will most fit the painting the mortal works on will be blood red. The victim becomes obssesed with that idea. Works like suggestion, but instead of hours it works for days.
17. Mental reach - the demon can make physical attacks from a distance much longer then where he would normally could. For exemple, meduim sized demon with this ability could make a claw attack from 20 feet.

[Pyre_Born]

The Demonic Power column is going to be for abilities like the warlock invocations. Basically this Demons version of spell like abilities, I never did clarify that much in the discussion thread.

Some Demonic Powers might be:
Shadow Walking
Invisibility
Some type of cage like power
mental control

Demon Traits are up in the air right now. I'm gonna say that things like Darkvision are a given, and probably picking an immunity based on the type of demon you want to make.

So far all we really have is the shell for progression purposes, and we'll try to adjust it and balance abilities for the levels.

I'm thinking that their abilities from levels are what they can do/what defines them, and their powers are augmentations. Basically, if you want a Slaver Demon, you'll take abilities for domination and control, and powers will focus on augmenting them. Example: All Slavers might have Hellish Cage an ability that surrounds their prey in a force like box. However a shadow slaver might have a power that turns the cage into a mass of shadow tentacles that ensnare anyone coming to close, while a fire based slaver might have a power that makes the cage with an intense heat that keeps away others/burns down the house the prey is in?

I like the abilities, and going with them I can see a way to work out the ability/power aspect.

Let's use 11.Whisper Into Minds
The Demon could gain that at low levels, and at later levels gain powers to:
Cause Nightmares/Fear
Inspire/Imprint Ideas
Control/Coerce
Dominate/Possess

Think of it like a Demonic Evolution. Instead of having Demon A that turns into Demon B through favor of their ruler, you have Demon 1 who grows in power, soon turning into Demon 1.1, then Demon 1.2.

While Demons may be created the same in the beginning this allows each Demon to take it's own course from that point at the DM's whim. Hopefully once finished this will give an easy solution to that.

Some Demon Roles:

Berserker:
-Rage
-Fast Movement
-Bloodlust

Slaver:
-Caging
-Torture
-Branding?
-Limited Mind Control

Spy:
-Invisibility
-Flight
-Silence
-Read Thoughts
-Alter Memories

Corrupter
-Alter Self/Shapechange
-Influence
-Telepathy

Mentalist
-Illusions
-Telepathy

Soldier
-Regeneration
-Thick Skin
-Bull's Strength


I'm also thinking of a Demonic Dragon that uses a contagious Illusion Breath Weapon. It uses it's breath to convince those caught in it that their allies are their enemies. At higher levels the illusion breath can be transferred by touch, meaning that the dragon would probably target an unarmed fighter who would then infect his allies during attacks.

Peace,
Pyre

I hope I made sense...I'm tired and my attention is wandering

[akma]

The roles could be farther diversified, corruptors could be divided to those who seduce, those who cause betrayel, those who cause someone to abondon his cause for wealth or fake power (or power that would help the demon lords), etc.

Also, there is another possible role:
Distruption/chaos: they are the ones who are supposed to cause trouble in the mortal societies, making them fight each other so they will be more vurnable to demon attacks. A bit like spies, but focused on causing destruction instead of getting information, so they don`t tend to infiltrate deeply into mortal society.
Possible powers:
- Invisibilty.
- Shapechanging.
- Possesion/domination.
- Illusions.
- Inspire.
- Charm spell like abilities.
- Controlling someone`s movements without controlling him.

Also, I thought about an idea for an ego shattering demon - he challenges mortals for a duel and promises great reward if he would win, and the mortal would have to give him something if he loses (like his soul). Then the demon wins and the mortal weeps for his arrogance.

[Pyre_Born]

The roles could be farther diversified, corruptors could be divided to those who seduce, those who cause betrayel, those who cause someone to abondon his cause for wealth or fake power (or power that would help the demon lords), etc.

Yeah diversifying would help out



Also, there is another possible role:
Distruption/chaos: they are the ones who are supposed to cause trouble in the mortal societies, making them fight each other so they will be more vurnable to demon attacks. A bit like spies, but focused on causing destruction instead of getting information, so they don`t tend to infiltrate deeply into mortal society.
Possible powers:
- Invisibilty.
- Shapechanging.
- Possesion/domination.
- Illusions.
- Inspire.
- Charm spell like abilities.
- Controlling someone`s movements without controlling him.

I like that idea



Also, I thought about an idea for an ego shattering demon - he challenges mortals for a duel and promises great reward if he would win, and the mortal would have to give him something if he loses (like his soul). Then the demon wins and the mortal weeps for his arrogance.
[/QUOTE]
That would definitely fit the flavor of the demons.

I was thinking of an infection demon. This demon would create shards that burst from it's body upon death. If you get wounded by one you have a chance of coming under the influence of that demons master. Once control over the infected is complete, the Demon Lord can begin to warp the person.

Peace,
Pyre

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm innately distrusting of the words "Community Worldbuilding Project" but I adored the Mongoose Press game, Infernum, which this seems to be a more core D&D retread of, so i'll be happy to help.

Borrowing from their format, the simplest method might be to create 5 powers in each "chain," and forbidding anyone from taking the same chain two powers in a row. Either that or taking the four-five tier approach of the Warlock itself.

That and the power level you want balancing against are needed before i start throwing ideas at you: You want Tier 2, 3, or 4 power level. I prefer 4 myself, but i'm odd that way. I can do 3 and I can happily design broken stuff but not tune it for 2. In other words, Sorcerer; Beguiler/Swordsage or Rogue power levels?

[akma]

Do you think commandor demons should be a seperate rule, or that each one would be unique? Or that they would simply be higher level demons under the catagory of another rule?



I was thinking of an infection demon. This demon would create shards that burst from it's body upon death. If you get wounded by one you have a chance of coming under the influence of that demons master. Once control over the infected is complete, the Demon Lord can begin to warp the person.


Good, sounds efficent.


I'm innately distrusting of the words "Community Worldbuilding Project" but I adored the Mongoose Press game, Infernum, which this seems to be a more core D&D retread of, so i'll be happy to help.

I`m probably worse then you - I held the belief that any big community project eventully fails. But this forum is a lot more active then the forums that made me have that impression.



Borrowing from their format, the simplest method might be to create 5 powers in each "chain," and forbidding anyone from taking the same chain two powers in a row.

I think it will be good to set the powers in chains or groups, but I think that each chain/group should have as many powers as we can think for it.



That and the power level you want balancing against are needed before i start throwing ideas at you: You want Tier 2, 3, or 4 power level. I prefer 4 myself, but i'm odd that way. I can do 3 and I can happily design broken stuff but not tune it for 2. In other words, Sorcerer; Beguiler/Swordsage or Rogue power levels?

My instinct says tier 2, but I have a feeling most will end up as tier 3.
Tier 2 makes sense at first glance: it got d8 hitpoints, good BAB, good saves and gets a lot of abilities. But each demon will have a certain rule, so they are going to be more focused.

Possible demon traits: immunity to hell enviroment hazards, certain energy resistence 5, spell resistance.

[Pyre_Born]

Do you think commandor demons should be a seperate rule, or that each one would be unique? Or that they would simply be higher level demons under the catagory of another rule?

I'd say start with the demons they rule over, then make it a few levels higher with a unique progression. Using base classes for example purposes. If you had Wizard Demons, the Lead Demon for that group would probably be a Wizard/Archmage Demon. They start out the same, but anything above the normal is a unique progression...make sense?



I`m probably worse then you - I held the belief that any big community project eventully fails. But this forum is a lot more active then the forums that made me have that impression.

This was the first I've actually ever joined let alone read, so I had no idea what I was getting into :smallbiggrin:



I think it will be good to set the powers in chains or groups, but I think that each chain/group should have as many powers as we can think for it.

Yeah that would be a good way to do it, it would make it easier to find a common progression, but still allow for flexible choices if you want to mix and match



My instinct says tier 2, but I have a feeling most will end up as tier 3.
Tier 2 makes sense at first glance: it got d8 hitpoints, good BAB, good saves and gets a lot of abilities. But each demon will have a certain rule, so they are going to be more focused.

I'd say make Demons Tier 2, but most of our classes/prestige classes Upper 3/Lower 2, give the Demons a slight edge to make teamwork/cooperation a little more helpful, that's my POV



Possible demon traits: immunity to hell enviroment hazards, certain energy resistence 5, spell resistance.

Sounds good, I was thinking we could have some basic choices for Demonic Traits, and then have some ability options to increase them if they want to.

So have the Resistance turn into Immunity with some focus, or Spell Resistance turn into Spell Turning/Immunity for certain spells with feats.

Peace,
Pyre

[Mulletmanalive]

I'd say make Demons Tier 2, but most of our classes/prestige classes Upper 3/Lower 2, give the Demons a slight edge to make teamwork/cooperation a little more helpful, that's my POV

Not...entirely clear as to your logic there, but based on the chassis, i can certainly give you a selection of powers that allow for something like a tier 2, which is basically a tier 4 class on steroids, when you think about it:

Core assumption:
There are 5 grades of powers:
Minion grade, level 1-4
Demon grade, level 5-9
Fiend grade, level 10-13
Greater Demon grade, level 14-17
Demon Prince grade, level 18+

They start with the minor and end with the retarded. It's not been made clear what the "abilities" are supposed to be an i'll work with upped power Mutation chains from Infernum...

General Abilities:

Chain of Resilience:
Minion: Survivor in Hell - Resistance +20 to one energry type and +10 on two additional energy types.
Demon: Skin of Iron - Standard action, gain 30 temporary hp as you form ablative material around your body.
Fiend: Swimming in Horror - Gain immunity to one energy type and resistance +20 to two more. Stacks with Survivor in Hell
Archdemon: Barrier Infernal - As a Standard action, gain immunity to one type of damage until the end of your next turn.
Demon Prince: Absorb Torment - As an Immediate action, you can negate one hit directed against you, storing the damage for later use. You may store multiple hits, but no more than your maximum hp. Releasing the attack takes the form of your choice of a 300ft Ray attack, a 100ft line attack or a 30ft cone attack; this is a standard action.

This kind of think alright and I can add to them at my leisure? Most powers will be one ability but some might be more like basic packages [for instance, the Chain of Stench might have a package that allows Stinking Cloud at will or you can negate your ability to use this for a few hours to use a Cloudkill]

[Pyre_Born]

Not...entirely clear as to your logic there, but based on the chassis, i can certainly give you a selection of powers that allow for something like a tier 2, which is basically a tier 4 class on steroids, when you think about it:

Sorry, I was kind of answering for two threads in one, The Demon class here should probably be Tier 2. I was clarifying that classes for PC's in the Life in Hell thread should probably be around Tier 3, that way the classes themselves would require more of a group effort to cover every aspect needed to succeed.

In short Demons-Tier 2 :smalltongue:



Core assumption:
There are 5 grades of powers:
Minion grade, level 1-4
Demon grade, level 5-9
Fiend grade, level 10-13
Greater Demon grade, level 14-17
Demon Prince grade, level 18+

They start with the minor and end with the retarded. It's not been made clear what the "abilities" are supposed to be an i'll work with upped power Mutation chains from Infernum...

That progression should pretty much cover it



General Abilities:

Chain of Resilience:
Minion: Survivor in Hell - Resistance +20 to one energry type and +10 on two additional energy types.
Demon: Skin of Iron - Standard action, gain 30 temporary hp as you form ablative material around your body.
Fiend: Swimming in Horror - Gain immunity to one energy type and resistance +20 to two more. Stacks with Survivor in Hell
Archdemon: Barrier Infernal - As a Standard action, gain immunity to one type of damage until the end of your next turn.
Demon Prince: Absorb Torment - As an Immediate action, you can negate one hit directed against you, storing the damage for later use. You may store multiple hits, but no more than your maximum hp. Releasing the attack takes the form of your choice of a 300ft Ray attack, a 100ft line attack or a 30ft cone attack; this is a standard action.

This kind of think alright and I can add to them at my leisure? Most powers will be one ability but some might be more like basic packages [for instance, the Chain of Stench might have a package that allows Stinking Cloud at will or you can negate your ability to use this for a few hours to use a Cloudkill]

They look good, feel free to add more abilties.

Peace,
Pyre

[Pyre_Born]

New and Improved Demon, still WIP but I'm trying to get more fleshed out.

The Demon

{table=header]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Powers
1|+1|+2|+2|+2|Demon Core Abilities, Demon Ability|1
2|+2|+3|+3|+3|Demon Ability|2
3|+3|+3|+3|+3||3
4|+4|+4|+4|+4|Demon Ability|3
5|+5|+4|+4|+4||4
6|+6|+5|+5|+5|Demon Ability|5
7|+7|+5|+5|+5||6
8|+8|+6|+6|+6|Demon Ability|6
9|+9|+6|+6|+6||7
10|+10|+7|+7|+7|Demon Ability|8
11|+11|+7|+7|+7||9
12|+12|+8|+8|+8|Demon Ability|9
13|+13|+8|+8|+8||10
14|+14|+9|+9|+9|Demon Ability|11
15|+15|+9|+9|+9||12
16|+16|+10|+10|+10|Demon Ability|12
17|+17|+10|+10|+10||13
18|+18|+11|+11|+11|Demon Ability|14
19|+19|+11|+11|+11||15
20|+20|+12|+12|+12|Demon Ability|15
[/table]

Hit Die:d8
Skill Points (1st Level):(8+Int Mod)x4
Skill Points per level:8+Int Mod

Demon Core Abilities

Speed: A Demons base speed is 30 ft.

Ability Increases: A Demon gains a +2 bonus to two separate ability scores.

Horrific Form: A Demons primal and alien form is horrific to creatures not from the Demons plane and is invariably hideous to behold. *Each Demons natural form is unique in some way, and those who know these forms use this knowledge to identify demonic groups. *A Demon created to be part of a group shares the basic physical form as the rest of its type. *A Demon returns to its natural from upon death.

Fear: Any creature seeing a demon’s true form must make a Will save (DC 10 + the demon’s Hit Dice + the demon’s Charisma modifi er) or become shaken. If the witness rolls a 1 on his save, he instead is frightened and flees for 1d6 rounds. Repeated exposure to this sight inures the witness against the fear. A witness gains a +1 bonus to his saving throw for each time he has viewed the true form. Demons usual use their shapechange ability in the presence of other creatures to keep them from becoming used to their horrific form.

Shapechange: Demons can change shape, taking on the shape of any humanoid species they have knowledge of. Using this as a disguise grants a +10 bonus to disguise checks. Shapechanging is taxing on a Demon that has not focused on this aspect however. A Demon may only use this ability for 30 minutes, at which point it cannot use the ability again for another 30 minutes. Shorter periods of change require less rest, for every minute changed, the demon cannot use the ability for a minute.*

Resistance to Damage: Demons are not physiologically like mortals.*
- Demons are hard to kill, a Demon that has taken enough damage to reach negative hit points must still roll to recover but does not lose additional hit points from a failure.*
- Demons are immune to natural poisons and diseases.
- Demons gain Resistance 10 to once specified energy.
- Demons do not need to eat or breathe.

Darkvision: Demons can see in the dark at the same range as humans can see in light.

Demon Weaknesses:
Every demon has a craving*or*bane,*something the demon craves in order to remain healthy, or something to avoid as if it were deadly poison. A demon with a craving must indulge it every day or the demon will grow weaker; one with a bane takes damage whenever confronted with the bane.
A demon has one craving or one bane, not both. A particular demon’s craving or bane has no apparent relation to the demon’s powers or the base material the demon uses as a body. (One salt-bane demon decayed into salt when killed, as did a salt-craving demon who took long baths in the sea every day.) The demon’s craving or bane never changes.
Knowing a demon’s craving is a way to appease the demon; knowing its bane is a way to control the demon. Because demons cannot hide their reactions to banes, mortals who know about demons sometimes use banes to help positively or negatively identify demons they encounter. (“The roses didn’t bother it at all; it can’t be a Reaper.”)

Craving:*Cravings are usually common substances the demon must consume or use in large quantities, though some demons crave rarer materials in smaller quantities. Common substances are things readily available for purchase, even in large quantities. Uncommon substances are available only in moderate quantities or from specialized locations. Rare substances are heavily restricted, available only in tiny quantities or available only from a small group of people.
Sample common substances: Alcohol, ham, puppies, antifreeze.
Sample uncommon substances: Expensive wine, human blood, pedigree bulldogs, 19th-century books, gold, cocaine.
Sample rare substances: Virgin’s blood, uranium, Vampire blood, pandas.
A demon that fails to indulge its craving takes a -1 penalty on attacks, saves and checks for each day that passes since the demon last sated its need. These penalties go away once the demon sates its craving. A demon needs a new sample of the craving every time it indulges; a demon that needs antifreeze can’t simply keep a bathtub of it in its apartment and soak every day the demon needs new antifreeze every day.
A demon may indulge its craving regardless of its current physical form. Mr. Antifreeze can soak in antifreeze as a human or in his natural form. The act of serving the need makes the demon immune to the substance’s harmful effects (if any) for that time; a uranium-craving demon doesn’t get radiation burns when feeding his craving, though the demon is as vulnerable to radiation as anyone else at other times.
A craving is always a detriment, though careful management means it can be just an annoyance.

Bane: A bane may be a substance, a condition or even a word. Some demons cannot stand the touch of salt, or rum or silver. Some cannot cross water, or bear the light of the full moon or see their refl ections in mirrors. Some grow nauseous at the sound of the word “yellow,” or weaken at hearing “molecule” or collapse in pain when someone shouts “Belgium.”
Using a bane against a vulnerable demon gives at a penalty on attacks, saves, and checks for 10 minutes. The penalty’s severity depends on the bane: a common bane imposes a -1 penalty, uncommon -3 and rare -6.
This penalty stacks with itself, but a creature can use a bane to harm a demon only once per minute. The bane has a visible effect on the demon (though in human guise the demon may blame its reaction on bad food or something similar)

Demon Abilities:

Powers


Right now what I'm thinking is that we make the abilities, and if they can be grouped use the Chain system like Mulletmanalive did. That way we have organized groups for specific sections. Also use the grade system to place abilities in, this will be easier for chain abilities since you'll just improve as you go. But for individual abilities find a good grade and put it their.

What i'm thinking is once we have abilities fleshed out, we can group them in grade sections like 4e did with the Tier feats, makes it easier to find, and then make a list of chains like Cleric Domains, you see the list, and find the description in it's grade section.

Now onto a bunch of abilities, these are just descriptions, but I have most of them fleshed out.

{table=header]Ability|Prerequisite|Benefit
Awe|Minion Grade|+5 on social skills
Bestial Rage|Demon Grade|Enter a rage
Between the Light|Demon Grade|Use shadows to travel intangibly for short distances
Breach Barrier|Int 13, Demon Grade|Pass through solid objects
Break the Defiant|Demon Grade|Deal temp Wis damage
Clarity|Minion Grade|Negate surprise and flat-footed
Claws| Minion Grade |You grow claws that deal 1d8 damage
Cloak of Gathering|Cloak of Night,Demon Grade|Make up to five others invisible
Cloak of Night|Touch of Shadow, Minion Grade|Become Invisible
Confess|Cha 13, Demon Grade|Target reveals secrets
Command|Demon Grade|Target must obey one-word command
Conditioning|Mesmerize|Fiend Grade|Give targets penalties to resist commands
Conjure Minion|Demon Grade|Conjure a Demonic minion
Corrupting Aura|Demon Grade|Radiate 1d6 vile damage in 10 foot radius
Corrupting Bolt|Corrupting Touch|Deal 1d6 vile/2 levels at range
Corrupting Touch|Demon Grade|Make a touch attack for 2d6 vile damage
Crushing Blow|Minion Level|Gain +4 Damage, Improved Unarmed Strike and deal damage as one size larger
Death Grip|Demon Grade|+8 Grapple
Demonic Will|Fiend Grade|Ignore certain conditions, act normally when dying
Dread|Minion Grade|Improve fear
Emotion Perception|Heightened Senses|Identify the emotions of a creature
Entrancement|Awe, Demon Grade|Target feels strong positive feelings toward you
Eye of Terror|Dread|Immobilize targets with fear
Extend Disguise|Minion Grade|Remain in alternate form longer
Familiar Stranger|Mask of Tranquility, Demon Grade|Appear as someone the target expects to see
Flight|Manipulate Attraction|Gain fly speed of 60 ft.
Ghost Step|Fiend Grade|Gain etherealness
Great Stature|Minion Grade|Grow one size for one minute
Heightened Senses|Minion Grade|+5 to Listen, Search, and spot; double darkvision
Hold|Push|Hold a target in place telekinetically
Husk Minion|Demon Grade|Create a Zombie minion from a body
Infernal Pact|Cha 13|Enhance a mortal for a feether info, and Sense Motives
Iron Rending|Demon Grade|Ignore 8 points of hardness
Leach Rage|Demon Grade|Steal 1 round of rage from another demon
Legendary Arm|Fiend Grade|+10 to strength for lifting and throwing objects
Loose Tongue|Minion Grade|+8 Diplomacy, Ga
Manipulate Attraction|Minion Grade|Make yourself slippery or sticky
Manipulate Cohesion|Demon Grade|Increase or Decrease an objects hardness
Manipulate Earth|Minion Grade|Manipulate the ground to attack or defend
Mask of Tranquility|Minion Grade|Others have a harder time telling you are a demon
Mental Projection|Heightened Senses, Greater Demon Grade|Project your senses out of your body
Mindstrike|Minion Grade|Attack deals 1d6 vile damage, 2 temp Wis
Mortal Fear|Eye of Terror|Greater Demon Grade|Deal 5d6 vile damage to those under your fear
Murderous Recharge|Corrupting Ability|Gain bonuses for killing with corrupting ability
Possession|Greater Demon Grade|Take possession of a mortal
Push|Demon Grade|You can move objects telekinetically
Shatter Mind|Eye of Terror, Fiend Grade|Target gains a minor psychological disorder for a week
Show True Form|Minion Grade|Momentarily reveal your true form
Sovereignty|Entrancement, Greater Demon Grade|Foes must make a will save to attack you
Speed Surge|Demon Grade|Gain an extra standard or move action
Summoning|Awe, Fiend Grade|Command someone to come to you from anywhere in*hell
Telepathy|Demon Grade|Communicate telepathically
Thrallsight|Infernal Pact, Demon Grade|See of speak through someone in a pact with you
Thrallsave|Infernal pact, Fiend Grade|Possess someone you have a pact with
Torturous Memory|Fiend Grade|Add, alter, or erase memories
Touch of Shadow|Minion Grade|Make an item on your body invisible
Warding|Demon Grade|Gain +1 AC/2 levels
Warp Space|Int 13, Fiend Grade|Teleport anywhere in Hell
Wind's Fury|Fiend Grade|Create a whirlwind that traps and moves target
[/table]


And putting the grades here for reference so I don't forget when I'm editing

{table=header]Grade|Level
Minion|1-4
Demon|5-9
Fiend|10-13
Greater Demon|14-17
Demon Prince|18+
[/table]

[Mulletmanalive]

Unless you've changed what it does for Life in Hell, you've priced the Vile damage abilities at least one, if not two grades too low.

Vile damage cannot be healed in hell. Period. Hallow spells don't work on unhallowed ground. and concencration certainly won't...

[Pyre_Born]

Unless you've changed what it does for Life in Hell, you've priced the Vile damage abilities at least one, if not two grades too low.

Vile damage cannot be healed in hell. Period. Hallow spells don't work on unhallowed ground. and concencration certainly won't...

I had completely forgotten about that. I'm gonna change the ability to either negative or unholy damage and make an ability to improve it to vile damage later on.

Thanks for the catch.

Peace,
Pyre

[Snowfire]

Technically it can be healed within Soulheart and the area surrounding her, but that's only because Soulheart was built on the Prime and then directly transported over to Hell when the Catastrophe hit - hence taking a portion of the land around her with it. The Circle is more an arcane circle then a holy one, but some of them have dabbled in the powers of the divine at least once or twice.

However, that doesn't really matter in regards to this debate. I just saw this and felt the need to say something.

....:smallredface:

And now I'll be very, very quiet...

[Pyre_Born]

Technically it can be healed within Soulheart and the area surrounding her, but that's only because Soulheart was built on the Prime and then directly transported over to Hell when the Catastrophe hit - hence taking a portion of the land around her with it. The Circle is more an arcane circle then a holy one, but some of them have dabbled in the powers of the divine at least once or twice.

However, that doesn't really matter in regards to this debate. I just saw this and felt the need to say something.

....:smallredface:

And now I'll be very, very quiet...

Haha, actually you bring up a good point, I'll bring up a topic over on the main thread about possibly having the hallowed ground of churches transfer with the towns, and even have clerics make certain areas hallowed ground. With that, I could leave Fiend tier and up as vile damage, adding a little more threat to the party. If you don't have someone that can make the area holy for a short period of time/overcome vile damage you better hope you aren't too far from a town or your SOL.

Peace,
Pyre

*Note* I'm going to try to get the detailed abilities up later, and possibly start organizing everything into Grades and Chains for ease in searching.

*Edit* A OGL Vile Damage I'm putting up for the main thread to be worked on, with some feats we're gonna work on it should even everything out middle ground between normal and Vile damage


Corrupted Damage:
Corrupted Damage, like regular damage, results in the target losing hit points or ability damage. However, Corrupted Damage has a more damaging effect outside of Hallowed Ground. This is due to the pure corruption that arises from damage by this energy.

Corrupted Damage can only be healed (naturally or magically) on Hallowed Ground, or within the effects of a Consecrate or Hallow] spell.

While on Hallowed Ground, damage done by Corrupted energy heals at twice the normal level.

--Design Notes--
I figure with this, characters that aren't prepared will be in more danger from death if they aren't within close range of a town or hallowed area. Seeing as this is Hell after all, I think this would add to the feel of characters needing to band together and work as a team. If you aren't relatively close to a town or church you better hope you've got a healer or someone trained against corrupted energy with you.

[akma]

I realy like the cravings and banes idea, but I have one problam with it - I don`t think that it should be that the demons would have to satisfy their cravings everyday, but regulary. I know it`s vague, but everyday sounds like it`s too strict.
Also, while posting a demon here, should be it in a character sheet format or a monster format?

[Pyre_Born]

I realy like the cravings and banes idea, but I have one problam with it - I don`t think that it should be that the demons would have to satisfy their cravings everyday, but regulary. I know it`s vague, but everyday sounds like it`s too strict.
Also, while posting a demon here, should be it in a character sheet format or a monster format?

For the Bane/Craving thing, I'm thinking make it once a week for EXTREMELY common items, once a month for harder to find? Maybe even have once a year for nearly impossible. So Hell soil would be once a week, Virgin Blood would be once a month, Liquid sunlight (just a random name for some difficult to make magic item) once a year, since only 2 or 3 mortals know how to make it.

That way, once a week shouldn't be too difficult for your average demon to take care of.

Posting demons...I'd say use a monster format for the stats.

*Edit*
Posting some possession rules here for reference


Possession:

Possession
Possession is means by which a powerful creature, usually of the upper or lower planes, as well as some undead, attempt to gain control over a mortals body and in some cases their soul.

A possessing creature can influence, and later, gain complete control of its victim. This almost always results in the death of the victim if needed for only a short time, or specific purpose.

Since Demons are such powerful creatures, they are the most commonly known users of possession. Being capable of snuffing out mortal life with little more than a thought is just one of the reasons they are feared, the loss of ones soul however strikes right at the heart of most mortals.

Many Demons refuse possession due to the limits of their natural abilities while in the shell of a mortal. However to many, the benefits of walking amongst mortals with little chance of physical harm outweighs the drawbacks.

Possession Attempts:
Possession is a two stage process, the initial contact, and then the complete possession.

Initial Contact:
When a creature first exerts its will upon a victim it is attempting to possess, the victim must attempt a Will save. A DC of 10 + 1/2 the possessing creature's HD + Charisma Mod is required in order to resist the attempt.
If the saving throw succeeds, then the victim hears strange voices, feels chills, and sometimes feels a sense of dread. These have no mechanical aspects.
On a failed saving throw, the possessing creature corrupts the victims mind. Each day, the possessor can attempt to force the victim to perform some action, usually something to cause the victims close contacts harm, or an act of blasphemy. The only restriction on this is that during this stage, the possessing creature cannot force the victim to harm itself or anyone else in a lethal way. The victim can resist this urge by succeeding at another Will save at the same DC, if failed the victim succumbs to the urge and performs the action.
The corruption of the initial contact lasts for only a short time before complete control is accomplished. To determine how long before full possession takes effect, add the Victims HD and Charisma Bonus, and do the same for the possessor. Subtract the possessors value from the Victims. A positive result is the number of days until full possession, a negative number means that the possession is immediately a full possession.

Example
A 12 HD Demon with a +5 Cha Bonus (17 total) tries to possess a 18 HD(level) Human with a +6 Cha (24 total). 24-17=7 Days till total possession, assuming Initial Contact succeeded.

Full Possession:
Once full control is seized, a possessing creature can do as it pleases with the victim. Full possession is equivalent to magic jar except that not receptacle is required and their is no time limit. The possessing spirit cannot use its supernatural powers, however its spirit augments the mortal frame, it uses its own mental abilities, and (if better than the victims) its own physical ability scores.
While in possession of a mortal body, the being is anchored to the plane it is on. This means that banishment,*dismissal,*dispel evil, or other similar spells cannot force it out of the body, or to its home plane.

Exorcism
In order to perform an exorcism, their must be at least one person present with at least 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion). The exorcist must have access to a holy symbol, and the exorcism must take place relatively free of interruptions. Finally in order to perform an exorcism, the possessed victim must be present and bound in some fashion.
Only a single person is required to perform an exorcism, however it is often helpful to have aid in the form of religiously knowledgeable persons, or physically powerful persons.
Once all preparations are complete, the exorcism can begin. Once started, any interruption of more than a minute per exorcist's level will end the exorcism attempt, wasting the efforts.
At the start of the exorcism, the exorcist must announce his intention to banish the possessing soul from the victim, and must formally declare his will to bear against the soul. Following that the exorcist must brandish the holy symbol in some way and recite an exorcism litany. This must be done for a minimum of 8 hours.
At the end of each 8 hour session, the exorcist can try to draw the possessing soul out of the victim. To do this he must roll a Knowledge (Religion) skill check, modified as follows;
- +1 if performed in a church of the exorcists faith, +2 if it is a church of the exorcists own parish.
- A maximum of 2 assistants can use aid another to augment the exorcists check
- Bonus equal to the exorcists charisma bonus
- +1 bonus for each time the possessing spirit has resisted the exorcism
- +2 bonus if the exorcist uses a turning attempt (1 per session)
- +4 if the exorcist has exorcised this possessing soul before
- +2 bonus if the exorcist uses blessed candles
- +1 bonus if the exorcist uses a holy symbol forged by a priest of at least 10th level

The result of the check is sets the Will save DC which the possessing spirit must attempt. The possessing spirit gains a +2 bonus to this save if is in full possession of the victim.

If the possessing soul succeeds, then it has resisted the exorcism, and another attempt must be made. If it fails, one of two things happens. If it had only corrupted the victim then it is banished from the body, back to its own. If it had full possession, then its hold over the victim is weakened, and the victim is considered only to be corrupted.
Should the possessing soul resist the attempt, or be weakened to corrupting, then the exorcist can make another attempt after 8 hours, using the results above. The exorcism is over once the possessing soul is banished from the victim.
If the possessing soul that had its control weakened to corrupting succeeds in resisting the second exorcism, it returns to full possession of the victim.

The Costs of Exorcism:
Exorcism are extremely taxing on the body and soul of the exorcist. At the conclusion of the second hour of an exorcism and each hour thereafter the exorcist must make a fortitude save. The DC is 10 + 1 per hour after the first. So an exorcist in the 5th hour of a session must attempt a save against a DC of 14. If the save is successful, there are no adverse effects, however, if the save fails, the exorcist takes 1d6 nonlethal damage and becomes fatigued. The exorcist also becomes fatigued if the possessing soul resists the exorcism attempt. If the exorcist is already fatigued, he becomes exhausted.
In order to eliminate fatigue, the exorcist must rest for a full night, ending the exorcism attempt. An exorcist with a qualified assistant however can allow the assistant to take over the exorcism while he rests.

Failed Exorcism:
The exorcist who becomes exhausted from the attempt and has no one to take over the ritual fails the exorcism. The possessing soul retains control, and the exorcist that attempted the ritual cannot attempt to exorcise that soul for a year and a day.



Peace,
Pyre

[Pyre_Born]

Just a little bump to keep the place alive, once I get over this flu I'll get some more stuff formatted for Demons.

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

I think I might create a more honourable demon lord and make a few demons under him with a theme of honour. Anyways, here is an honourable demon, the deal maker.

Honourable demons
"He stood within the circle, sorrounded by magical symbols. The orange skinned demon aproached him.
"The only step left is for you to make a symbolic sacrafice."
The honourable demon handed the mortal a knife, and the mortal made a shallow cut on his hand. Blood shed and soiled the ground.
"This deal would not only have benefits. When the time comes, you will have to destroy the thing I`ll tell you to."

Honourable demons are corruptor demons, who give mortals something they want in exchange for something their master wants. Their stratagy is to give little things in exchange for little things first, and slowly tempt the mortal who they deal with to more and more deals. Not only does the mortal become a strong demon after he dies, he also helps farther a demon lord goals in the way.
They are called honourable demons becuse they can`t lie and can`t cheat. They were created that way so they would gain reputation as honourable, thus people wouldn`t worry about them screwing them and would agree to make deals. However, immitations were made by other demon lords, immitations that lie, cheat and betray.
The only way to diffrenciate between honourable demons and their fakes is that the originals got a bane for constant lies – if someone will lie to them constantly in a short period of time they would get very angry. The fakes don`t got that bane, but they got a craving for blood to have another motivation to do deals. However, few are the mortals who know about the fake honourable demons, and fewer are the ones who know how to expose them.
In any case, the deal goes the same way – the honourable demon talks with the target as a mortal while scouting for targets, and then secretly reveals his true nature, and offering a deal. The deal sounds like the mortal will benefit a lot more then he loses from it. When the mortal says yes, complex magical symbols are drawn, and the honourable demon guides the mortal thru the ceremony, and the deal is sealed when the mortal sheds some of his blood. Some rare honourable demons allow a diffrent kind of symbolic sacrafice, or demand a bigger sacrafice.
Honourable demons look humanid, orange skinned, with long nails, hoofs, 1 to 5 horns and face that looks like they were stretched.

Honourable demon
Meduim outsider (demon)
HD 5D8 (22)
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Init: +0
AC 18; touch 10; flat-footed 18
(+8 naturel armor)
BAB +5; Grp +5
Attack Claws +5 1d8 damage X3 crit
Full-Attack Claws +5 1d8 damage X3 crit
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks None.
Special Qualities Word of power, ampathy, shapechange.
Saves Fort +4 Ref +4 Will +4
Abilities Str 11, Dex 10, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 17
Skills Sense motive, listen, spot, search +8,
Feats
Environment Hell.
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 5
Treasure Normal
Alignment Any lawfull, but more often then not lawfull evil.
Advancement By class
Level Adjustment +5, since it`s like a level 5 demon

Shapechange (SL)
Honourable demons can assume to shape of any humanoid as a free action.
Ampathy (SU)
Honourable demons can feel the emotions of anyone they see. It`s a near perfect way to know if anyone suspects them or plans to attack them.
Word of power (SU)
The deals made with honourable demons cannot be easily ignored after done. The person who agreed to a deal with an honourable demon must make a will save of 18 (15 + honourable demon charisma modifier) to not fulffill it. The DC is 13 (10 + charisma modifier) if the target doesn`t make a symbolic sacrafice.

[Pyre_Born]

It looks great, is it easier to make the demons by using a class table?



Level Adjustment +5, since it`s like a level 5 demon


Perfect way to put it :smalltongue:

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

Possesion is very hard for the demon and very hard to get rid of. Which means that for the demon lords it`s only worthwhile to possess important people.


It looks great, is it easier to make the demons by using a class table?


I didn`t realy use it much, but it helped with knowing how many abilities to put. Only now I saw that in the class table abilities were moved to even levels instead of odds, so technically honourable demons have one more ability then they should.

And here are some demon ideas:
Blinders: Those are soldier demons that offer battlefield support by blinding a lot of enemies.
Torturers: Their offical role is data extracting, but they torture inoccents for fun when they have no assignments.
Demonic mount: Some sort of intelligent mount slave demon.
I don`t think I`ll do the first two, and probably won`t work on the third idea eithar.

[Pyre_Born]

Possesion is very hard for the demon and very hard to get rid of. Which means that for the demon lords it`s only worthwhile to possess important people.

That was intentional, I'm working on feats to resist possession, help with exorcism, and abilities to help the demon possess someone. The rules still need some tweaking, but hopefully after the abilities are up it will even itself out.



I didn`t realy use it much, but it helped with knowing how many abilities to put. Only now I saw that in the class table abilities were moved to even levels instead of odds, so technically honourable demons have one more ability then they should.

I might switch the abilities back to the old progression since it seems to be working well for how many the Honourable Demon gets.



And here are some demon ideas:
Blinders: Those are soldier demons that offer battlefield support by blinding a lot of enemies.
Torturers: Their offical role is data extracting, but they torture inoccents for fun when they have no assignments.
Demonic mount: Some sort of intelligent mount slave demon.
I don`t think I`ll do the first two, and probably won`t work on the third idea eithar.
I'll see what I can work up ability wise for them.

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

I might switch the abilities back to the old progression since it seems to be working well for how many the Honourable Demon gets.


Also, if a mortal will take the demon class, the demon traits make less sense (at least not all at once), so he will get no abilities at first level.

[Pyre_Born]

Also, if a mortal will take the demon class, the demon traits make less sense (at least not all at once), so he will get no abilities at first level.

I'm trying to figure out some rules to let humans become demons, just something to add onto the beginning of the class to make it worthwhile at Demon level 1 for them.

Peace,
Pyre