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Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-09-29, 12:30 PM
There stands a newly erected building, Giant pillars of white alabaster hold up a domed, cathedral style ceiling. The enormous oak doors, witch are embossed with some of the great events of the town, stand finally open, only a small red ribbon blocking the way. Inside the oaken portals is a scene that potrays all the wealth and prosperity that is the Town. Marble floors, alabaster walls, granite statues, and silk tapestries, to name the least.
There is a grass field covering at least five acres with a flower garden courtyard, and in the middle of the courtyard stands a massive fountain. the fountain portrays the epic battle of Lykan and Mortia De Luna Draco, the beginning of the town. The water shoots out of Mortia's scythe and Lykans Spear. the water splashes off of Mortia's outstretched wings, and cascades down the marble skin of the two combatants. The five acres of courtyard is full to the point of bursting, such volume is the crowd, all who have come to see the dedication of this newest marvel and wonderful addition to the Town.

Your current council!

Council Members

Mayor Gwen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=2849)
Deadly/Ilias
Sophistemon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=8489)
Trog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=9453)
El Jaspero (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=3046)
Fenric
Earin/Vael (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=17962)

Mayor
Gwen the WXdruid

BelkarsDagger
2006-09-29, 01:28 PM
Oh sorry, yes you had my approval. It was late at night when I wrote the last one. Your playing style is great, and there has been no complaints about you godmoding or anything.

-Death

Thank you very much, Death. :)

Jacklu
2006-09-29, 05:39 PM
Just reposting my idea so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

((Oh mighty town Council members I come before you with a humble request! *begins burning chicken on an elaborate alter* I would like to start a Town wide game, played out via PM and normal posts. My idea is to resurect the Food Feud. Players could ether pummel each other with food in the Food Feud thread or pull off risky food snipes via PM. The food snipes would follow the same basic rules as the assasinations that ran rampent throughout the Town in the early days, only they would be nonleathle and slightly more userfreindly. The Food Feud would run for a set amount of time, and I have a highly trained staff of gnome trash collecters to clean up the mess afterwards...

Kyrian
2006-09-29, 05:41 PM
Jacklu, Rouk...whoever you are at this point...

As I told Oskar last night...PM the council members...some have stated many times that they pay more attention to their PMs than this thread.

Daedrous Avari
2006-09-30, 07:57 PM
I'm planning on doing a large SKYE Armada event in which their headquarters flies over the town and conducts an invasion to find Daedrous and those who have commited large crimes.

Basically, there is going to be a takeover. The only way it will affect Town lives is that nobody will be able to go farther than the woods and the countryside, and every now and then the Skye Armada is going to ask the proprietors of shops if they can conduct a search to find Daedrous and the rest of the Outcasts (who will be introduced shortly.)

They can refuse, however they may have to take out force, which can be ignored. If ignored, the SKYE patrol will leave.

The EVENT thread for this will be the SKYE headquarters, a large almost Star Destroyer sized ship.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-01, 12:25 AM
Doesn't sound too bad to me. I say run with it. I'll let ya know if I can think of any advice to dispense. :D

Indurain
2006-10-01, 01:16 AM
I'm going to have some thoughts on this tomorrow, DA could you PM this to me, as a reminder for me to respond.

I'm hesitant after what happened at the Pimp Party, so I just want to cover some stuff with you before you go ahead with it.

I like the idea, but just want to work out the actual execution of it.

Yarram
2006-10-01, 01:34 AM
Could the SKYE Armarda not be a complete take-over?
I mean, we're talking about there would need to be MANY epic creatures in the armada to take this place over.

Can't you just storm each place one, by one to find the Deadrous guy?
That way it can become a town wide storyline and people can react however they want.

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-01, 11:45 AM
Anyone can react, It's fine. It's made to be like that. SKYE Armada mainly consists of level 20 soldiers and Captain Airborne is about 25.

@Llama

The artificier that we created will spawn somewhere in the story.

Yarram
2006-10-02, 02:11 AM
^^So in that case it won't be too dangerous, but it will not be something to take lightly.

I am going to introduce a new character to the town. His name will be Samuan Umi and he will be a lvl 35 wizard.
The special thing about him though is he will have a orb.
That orb will contain a minature universe completely (and by that I mean EVERYWHERE) populated by powerful magic users that worship the character like a god.

He made this orb his lifes work. The elf that owns it created the glass orb in child-hood and has been constructing the universe and breeding the people inside it to become the most powerfull magic users possible.

As they are so small, he doesn't gain the power of all that would be equitable to him were they all his size in the orb.
The many people in the universe worship him unitedly as he created them to be that way, and they channel a huge portion of their magic into a nexus in the centre of the orb constantly.

When he holds this orb, he can pull magic from it freely, but noone else can as the people inside give their magic to him, and him only. This magic that he can draw upon at will basically allows him to cast any spell he wants as a standard action and because time for the people in the orb runs 1 billion times faster than it does in real life this magic never runs out.

The orb basically allows him to cast regular spells, and also he can create, using pure magic, anything he wants with it.

I'll take any suggestions about how I can better run this character.
I do, however plan to have the character to have taken the vow of non-violence and the vow of peace.

Flabbicus
2006-10-02, 08:51 AM
^^So in that case it won't be too dangerous, but it will not be something to take lightly.

I am going to introduce a new character to the town. His name will be Samuan Umi and he will be a lvl 35 wizard.
The special thing about him though is he will have a orb.
That orb will contain a minature universe completely (and by that I mean EVERYWHERE) populated by powerful magic users that worship the character like a god.

He made this orb his lifes work. The elf that owns it created the glass orb in child-hood and has been constructing the universe and breeding the people inside it to become the most powerfull magic users possible.

As they are so small, he doesn't gain the power of all that would be equitable to him were they all his size in the orb.
The many people in the universe worship him unitedly as he created them to be that way, and they channel a huge portion of their magic into a nexus in the centre of the orb constantly.

When he holds this orb, he can pull magic from it freely, but noone else can as the people inside give their magic to him, and him only. This magic that he can draw upon at will basically allows him to cast any spell he wants as a standard action and because time for the people in the orb runs 1 billion times faster than it does in real life this magic never runs out.

The orb basically allows him to cast regular spells, and also he can create, using pure magic, anything he wants with it.

I'll take any suggestions about how I can better run this character.
I do, however plan to have the character to have taken the vow of non-violence and the vow of peace.

I remember alluding to something similar to that with a portable hole. Good times, good times.

Does he honestly need to be that powerful though?

Murky_Pool
2006-10-02, 03:12 PM
Right, we all know that when you're afk unexpectedly your character 'falls asleep'

Red Thing and a few others have commented upon this.
Red Thing has also coined the term 'Love Plague' (wonderful image, don't you think?) for the large number of romances that have started recently.

I'm thinking of running a story about this. I'd like to set up a thread for the Town Resivoir and a De-Salination Plant. I will have an antagonist be adding drugs and/or magic to knock people out randomly and make people fall in love.

It's not fleshed out fully, but I'm going to try and run it as an investigation rather than a fight. It won't involve an incredibly powerful badguy so I'm expecting that the 'big guns' (and you know who you are) will pretty much ignore it. The only minor wrinkle is that it would be primarily a Police job, but I'll try to leae it open enough to include anyone who wants to look for clues.

As it's not a World Destroying Plot, I can't see any reason to require approval, but if somone REALLY doesn't like the idea, I'll drop it.

I'll cut and paste this into a PM for every council member I can remember, I just thought I'd thorw it out here for initial comments, and in case it offends anyone (I'm good at that).

Kenyon
2006-10-02, 03:14 PM
I'm no councilmember, but I like the idea! Kenyon's been grumbling about his random passing out ever since he came here.

Hoseki
2006-10-02, 03:16 PM
Well, that could happen, but we'd still have random love and people falling asleep. So it would be kinda pointless. ;)

InaVegt
2006-10-02, 03:16 PM
But it wouldn't be solves, would it? I mean we need the love to keep it light and the passing out to explain when a player has to leave.

Mik
2006-10-02, 03:16 PM
I like the idea, except personally for the part of being able to explain people falling in love with the drugs.

But I too am not a council member, and I'll probably be the only one to see it that way, so yea...

ChaotikLawfull
2006-10-02, 03:21 PM
I like Murky's plan. Chaotik, as of recently, gets all of his water through a custom spell which teleports it in out of wells from struggling desert communities that desperately need it, because it's the evil way of doing so, so that would explain why he has not fallen in love yet.

Of course, Cupid would need a high-powered sniper rifle to score a hit on Chaotik. Actually, that'd be some sight... ;D

Murky_Pool
2006-10-02, 03:21 PM
Well, if I gave the ending away here it would kinda spoil the point of the thing wouldn't it.

Obviously it won't actually affect these real world issues so that's a given. Assuming that the 'evil' is stopped then you could use this to break off a romance, or damage one and have the 'making up' part.

And Kyrian, it's Town man, anything can do anything. It only has to be vaguely explained - Certain chemicals mixed with the correct magic and voila - 20 gallon drum of Love Potentcy dropped into the drinking water. I wasn't actually going to give you a chemical breakdown of a love potion.

Mik
2006-10-02, 03:22 PM
:D...thanks Murky...

Either way...I like the idea...

Now...if you'll only keep calm when you learn what weapon Mik has.....hehehe

ChaotikLawfull
2006-10-02, 03:23 PM
Hmm. Will this villain be specifically targetting those fortunate few who haven't fallen victim to his EEEEVIL schemes yet? ;D

Flabbicus
2006-10-02, 03:25 PM
Hmm. Will this villain be specifically targetting those fortunate few who haven't fallen victim to his EEEEVIL schemes yet? *;D

Nooo! I've been avoiding the Love Plague like a... well... like a plague.

ChaotikLawfull
2006-10-02, 03:26 PM
Join the club. We have customized coffee mugs.

Seft Sirag
2006-10-02, 03:47 PM
So... how do I expain why Val is still resisting continuing the relationship with the ghost of his fiancée considering he's been drinking nothing but water since he got here? ::)

I think its a good idea, though.

@v Good point. Can't believe I forgot about 'em again.

Flabbicus
2006-10-02, 03:49 PM
So... how do I expain why Val is still resisting continuing the relationship with the ghost of his fiancée considering he's been drinking nothing but water since he got here? *::)

I think its a good idea, though.

Immunity?

The gloves protect him?

Destro_Yersul
2006-10-02, 05:24 PM
Join the club. We have customized coffee mugs.


When do I get mine?

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-02, 05:29 PM
When do I get mine?

You don't get one. *We've seen your posters of Lilly on the walls of the Document Copying place.

V Myobi destroyed the muzzle. you have no evidence that ever happened.

Destro_Yersul
2006-10-02, 05:32 PM
Wait, who? That's forty feet in the air! -shifty eyes-
anyways, you should talk "Bad Llama" ;D

v: curses! I'm putting truth elixer in the next drink I buy you...

Kenyon
2006-10-02, 05:36 PM
*hides camera behind his back, looks around innocently*

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-02, 07:36 PM
Murk, try to do it AFTER the Sky Armada takeover. Or during. Whatever works best.

beholder
2006-10-02, 11:11 PM
still waiting on a verdict for sealing the mirror world. right now beholder's plan is to reroute all traffic to the plane of eternal beuracracy.
approval?

Mik
2006-10-02, 11:12 PM
Beholder, it's been said over a dozen times, PM the council members.

Gamerofthegame
2006-10-02, 11:21 PM
And another note...

You might wanna think this through before doing it from a IC view point, not characterwise, but world wise.

Lykan's stuff is in essence all Mirrors, so he still is a bleed from the mirror plane. Kerigan, out of a extreme technicality, is a bleed of the Mirror plane, Dancing man is too, I think. Probably others. Ye'd have to get rid of these bleeds first I would figure before closign it completely.

Now, second and more imporant note, I am pretty sure this world has non-PC gods. Real ones. And there is probably a mirror plane god, Who'd get might peeved about you doing this.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-03, 06:10 AM
Right, we all know that when you're afk unexpectedly your character 'falls asleep'

Red Thing and a few others have commented upon this.
Red Thing has also coined the term 'Love Plague' (wonderful image, don't you think?) for the large number of romances that have started recently.

I'm thinking of running a story about this. I'd like to set up a thread for the Town Resivoir and a De-Salination Plant. I will have an antagonist be adding drugs and/or magic to knock people out randomly and make people fall in love.

It's not fleshed out fully, but I'm going to try and run it as an investigation rather than a fight. It won't involve an incredibly powerful badguy so I'm expecting that the 'big guns' (and you know who you are) will pretty much ignore it. The only minor wrinkle is that it would be primarily a Police job, but I'll try to leae it open enough to include anyone who wants to look for clues.

As it's not a World Destroying Plot, I can't see any reason to require approval, but if somone REALLY doesn't like the idea, I'll drop it.

I'll cut and paste this into a PM for every council member I can remember, I just thought I'd thorw it out here for initial comments, and in case it offends anyone (I'm good at that).

Wow. I love the idea! I dont think it should be just the police, I think it should be a town wide epidemic. I think that, like the blizard, it should be affecting everyone, and let people choose weather or not it affects them. I think the idea is brilliant.

I would like to put it to a vote of the council for world wide epidemic, or just as Red think has it. We all know that red thing is good at not godmodding, so lets let him have some fun!!!

Hydrogelic
2006-10-03, 08:43 AM
Im planning such that people who frequent the black market Often enough get acess to 'The Guild'

I dont want to reveal too much , but suffice to say , the headquarters are located on a large chunk of rock , floating in a star filled pocket dimension .

There is an obscenely complete library , as well as a crapload of other services .

Purple cloaks are mandatory .

Anyone got any problems with this ?

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-03, 09:10 AM
Purple cloaks are mandatory .

Anyone got any problems with this ?

All cloaks are required to be eihter light red or black.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-03, 09:15 AM
And, for those of us who dont wear cloaks?

what then?




Paint?

Murky_Pool
2006-10-03, 09:17 AM
Sounds like a job for AvatarMan

Calling Earin the Frenzied, Alert, Alert

Hydrogelic
2006-10-03, 09:37 AM
Purple cloaks are provided at the enterance , and at any rate , if you try to wear a different coloured cloak in there , or indeed , no cloak , what you are wearing will turn purple over the next three hours of being within the dimension .

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-03, 09:38 AM
Well, I dont know that its such a good idea for the Mayor to be seen in the black market anyways...

Hydrogelic
2006-10-03, 09:46 AM
Well, I dont know that its such a good idea for the Mayor to be seen in the black market anyways...

Actually , the black market is just a subsiduary of the Guild . The guild itself operates on several planes , through several different buisnesses . Technically , you'd be hard pressed to prove that the black market even exists , even if you had a team of accountants and access to all the guild documents .

Besides , who could pass up heated pool acess for members , (Since that seems to be popular) AND a brewery run by monks who do nothing but distill vodka , all day , every day .

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-03, 09:48 AM
Mmmmmm Vodka.......

AmberVael
2006-10-03, 10:02 AM
Sounds like a job for AvatarMan

Calling Earin the Frenzied, Alert, Alert


WHEEP! WHEEP! WHEEP!

*Sprints to latop*

"This is Earin the Crazed, how may I help you?"

Murky_Pool
2006-10-03, 10:03 AM
Purple Emergency!!

We Need a Purple Cape and Cloak Field over all entrances to the Black Market. All avtars must be aligned to this change.

Purple Emergency!!

AmberVael
2006-10-03, 10:05 AM
AAAAAAAHHHH! TOO MUCH!
*Head a'splode*

But no, seriously, if you really feel the desire to have your avatar wearing a purple cloak when you go the blackmarket thingy, I'll be happy to provide, especially if you already have one of my avatars.

Supagoof
2006-10-03, 10:35 AM
I was wearing purple before it was cool

ChaotikLawfull
2006-10-03, 11:06 AM
People who did X before it was cool aren't cool, they're just losers who did something that used to be uncool. :P

Yarram
2006-10-03, 10:51 PM
I remember alluding to something similar to that with a portable hole. Good times, good times.

Does he honestly need to be that powerful though?
It doesn't need to be anything. But it will be that powerful because I really like the idea of it. :P

Dib
2006-10-04, 04:38 PM
I'm back...

I've come to request permission for Mai-Tai-Naan, god of balance and equality to finally make his debut in the town...

He will not be powerful in combat or meagical sense, but he is immortal and can manipulate the weak minded to a certain extent...

If there is anything else that you need to know, just ask and I'll let you know...

thank you...

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-04, 05:47 PM
well, as long as PC's with low will saves still have a chance to succeed, (no god-modding mental domination, not that I think you will, just trying to get used to this advice thing,) then I am ready to see this new God of Balance.

Krursk
2006-10-05, 02:53 AM
I'm here for a non-storyline reason, just to be different. I suppose I should reapply for being a judge, as I've been inactive for so long. Does the council approve?

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-05, 05:33 AM
Can we have a link to some of the court cases you have judged in the pass Krursk?

Dib
2006-10-05, 07:22 AM
Don't worry, I won't be doing any god-modding... it'll be kinda like voices in there heads...

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-05, 07:25 AM
Well, that seems fine with me, Dib or should I start calling you Clarabell now?

Be sure to PM the rest of the Council as that is the best way to get our attention.

Dib
2006-10-05, 12:21 PM
Ah yes, forgot about the PMing thing...

Dib will be fine, and cheers ;D

wxdruid
2006-10-07, 03:27 PM
Well, thanks for all who voted in the recent election. *:-) *I'll check this thread frequently and respond to any questions/concerns. *Please PM me if you feel the matter is private and I will answer as soon as I can. *

Here's a rundown of what I have seen suggested in this Thread, anyone may correct me if I'm wrong.

Term Limits for Council members-how long should terms be?

getting some councilors off and electing new ones-I feel this can be taken care of with term limits.

A written set of guidelines for the council to clarify their role in Town
-people playing gods in Town
-town affecting storylines
-improve/expanding storyline help

Remove all references to Titans in the TIAP thread

Disbanding the council altogether

Anyone have anything to add/change to the list, or recommendations for the above changes?

:-)

Supagoof
2006-10-10, 08:32 PM
People who did X before it was cool aren't cool, they're just losers who did something that used to be uncool. :P

Ah, but when was wearing purple not cool?

Pimp on playa!

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-10, 09:21 PM
*Death steps up to the microphone*

I would like to say that unfortunatly things have cropped up with the Management, and I shall leave you for a short period of time.

Maybe if you wish to have a filler council member, or completely take me off the council, that would be effective.

*Death leaves*

OOC: I am afraid a rather personal real life issue has arrised, and I will be away from the board from a indefinite time, hopefuly not to long, but I fear some people will get annoyed by my inactiveness.

AmberVael
2006-10-10, 09:26 PM
He's left himself open! Get him!
*Death gets swarmed by a 'pro-active council' mob*
I do think the 'temporary council member would be a good idea. Perhaps the second highest voted person in our recent election could step up?

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-11, 12:33 PM
That seems like a reasonable plan. So when are we going to end our terms and start new ones?

AmberVael
2006-10-11, 12:39 PM
Um. Good question. I'm thinking 2-3 months, maybe. But I'm not the only one who gets a say in this.

Sneak
2006-10-11, 10:34 PM
Hey.

I'm here to ask permission for stopping time on the 20th or sometime around then. I figured that as long as the boards are down, there might as well be a legitimate reason. I'll come up with some kind of twisted plot to go with it if it's approved. Although I don't see why it shouldn't be, since the forums are down anyway.

Of course, I'll have to do it a bit in advance, as I won't be able to post it right when the forums go down. But although it'll be a pre-emptive post, it won't actually take place until the forum stop.

Indurain
2006-10-12, 12:00 AM
I would definately say, if there's anyone diabolical enough to pull off something of that magnitude it would be Sneak.

I say rock the casbah!

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-12, 12:01 AM
Sneak, you're crazy, but I'm glad you're still around.

Go with my blessing.

wxdruid
2006-10-12, 08:50 AM
Sneak, I have to say your idea sounds great. *I agree with Indurain and LLama. *Have fun stopping time. *:-)

Term Limits-I think terms should be 4-6 months. *That will give someone time to get used to being on the council and sufficient time between voting periods so we aren't forever trying to get Townies to vote. *:-)

AmberVael
2006-10-12, 10:33 AM
So what about this 'temporary council member' thingy for Death's absence? Anyone have any objections comments to using the second highest voted person in the recent election?
If Supagoof and Exachix still remember who that was, that is.

V: Hm. That causes problems.

Supagoof
2006-10-12, 10:44 AM
2nd place was a three way tie....

El Jaspero,
Red Thing/Murky Pool
Oskar

wxdruid
2006-10-12, 11:08 AM
That causes a bit of a problem. :-) a runoff then?

Murky_Pool
2006-10-12, 08:39 PM
Roll a D6.

What sort of gamers would we be if we didn't make numerical choices based on the approriate dice roll?

1-2 El J
3-4 Red Thing
5-6 Oskar

wxdruid
2006-10-12, 09:22 PM
I'll agree if all three people agree to abide by the results. :-)

Murky_Pool
2006-10-12, 09:32 PM
I'll abide by the result of a dice roll

BelkarsDagger
2006-10-12, 09:36 PM
As do I.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-12, 09:43 PM
As will I.

Indurain
2006-10-12, 09:45 PM
To save time, since all three agree, I rolled for it.

If people accept my results.... Here it is.

Click to end the suspence. (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=677296)

AmberVael
2006-10-12, 09:46 PM
And so El J it is.
Gwen, I think we should go for 4 months then. We don't want too long of a time in between things, just in case stuff crops up.

wxdruid
2006-10-12, 09:48 PM
I'll PM the other council members to get their attention. :-)

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-12, 09:49 PM
Do I have to wear the black robe and all?

wxdruid
2006-10-12, 09:50 PM
A Black Robe is what the judge (me) wears, not council members. So you're free to wear bright yellow El J. :-)

Indurain
2006-10-12, 09:50 PM
Of course not...do you think I do?

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-12, 10:03 PM
Well, I thought if I was standing in for Death I might need to look the part.

Anyway, add my "yes" vote to Sneak's time-stop idea. It sounds great, but then again I'm also a sucker for anything with the SneakTM brand on it.

As for term limits: one thing I'd strongly suggest is staggering the term expirations.. While this would lead to more frequent Council elections, it would also give some continuity to the Council which, having served on a similar council before, is crucial to keeping it going. I'd propose elections every three months for half the Council.

I do have some concerns with the idea of term limits, but my brain isn't working well enough right now to write them up coherently, so they'll have to wait.

Yarram
2006-10-13, 02:27 AM
*Death steps up to the microphone*

I would like to say that unfortunatly things have cropped up with the Management, and I shall leave you for a short period of time.

Maybe if you wish to have a filler council member, or completely take me off the council, that would be effective.

*Death leaves*

OOC: I am afraid a rather personal real life issue has arrised, and I will be away from the board from a indefinite time, hopefuly not to long, but I fear some people will get annoyed by my inactiveness.

In other words, you are 15, and have parents, who get angry at people for the darndest things. ;D Am I warm, or is it something far more complicated then that. :'(

Murky_Pool
2006-10-14, 05:17 AM
I want to make a point about Public Use NPC's

This comes from the use and non-use of the Police Fairies. *They were put there by Supagoof and left open for everyone as a way to speed play for when (quite often) there were no police on line.

I've seen a number of people walk into the station and then leave without speaking to an online officer. *And a specific post highlights this when the player is not comfortable useing the NPC's.

I post as them from time to time when it's warranted. *If I'm online, but not in the station I will be Godric or one of the others, I think this may confuse people into beliviing that the fairies are Police Use Only.

I would like the welcome thread to have a note to this effect

Any thread which states the an NPC is available for reasonable use by any player is giving permission for ANY player to do so. *No matter how peripheral, how new, how inexperienced. *Don't feel bad or uncomfortable, the thread starter has allowed YOU to do this, he doesn't mind as long as you play that NPC within the rules he set up on the original post. * eg Don't kill them or have them look the other way while you rob the store.

That's my contribution. *I've seen people go into trogs and not get served when there's no barman online so it's not just the police fairies.

AmberVael
2006-10-14, 12:56 PM
I've been thinking. If we are going to go ahead with the temporary council member idea, should we go ahead and get one for Wukei as well? I know she gets on, from time to time, but it might help us out a bit to give someone else the reins until she can get back on reliably again.
Coin toss time? Or d4?

Murky_Pool
2006-10-14, 01:10 PM
Makes sense to me, I'll abide by the result of a D4 if we're using the old list.

wxdruid
2006-10-14, 01:10 PM
I think Wukei should be asked before we ask someone to fill her spot temporarily.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-14, 03:13 PM
I agree with Gwen; getting replaced, even temporarily, without being asked is pretty harsh. Given that she has to drop out like this because of health problems, I'd rather not make a bad thing even worse for her.

And here are my thoughts on term limits:

-I generally think they're a good thing, as turnover in the Council will help keep new ideas and fresh blood flowing through it. My concern, however, is that it's not hard to envision a future point at which there aren't enough good, or interested, candidates to field a quality Council. Yes, we're flush with good people now, but probably the Town's only actual law, ever, is "things change".

-As such I'd like to suggest a "two on, one off" set of term limits: a person can serve on the Council for at most two terms before having to sit out for one term. I'm not sure who will keep track of this, but I suppose we can just trust our candidates to be honest.

-Also, as I noted earlier I'd really be in favor of staggered elections: assuming, say, that a Council term is six months, that means we'd elect half the Council every three months. It means more elections, but it also means more continuity.

AmberVael
2006-10-14, 03:27 PM
I think Wukei should be asked before we ask someone to fill her spot temporarily.

That sounds fine to me, though I would really prefer to have someone around. I mean, it is no offense to her that she is having RL problems. We just need someone to fill in for a bit, but if she feels that it is insulting to her, I will remove my suggestion.

Alarra
2006-10-14, 03:41 PM
I like the idea of staggering council elections. I think 6 months might be a bit long in the time of this town though....the faces of this town change really quickly. I mean, quite a few of the people that were nominated in the current election haven't even been around 6 months. In terms of board time, 6 months is really quite awhile. I'd personally advocate for 4 months, with 3 (this is assuming there are 6 members, which now that i think of it, there may be 7) councillers being elected every two months.

Now....ideally, with two new council members just being elected, it'd be nice if there was one more spot open for election, and then the other three, or 4? (are there 6 or 7 council members? I don't even know) would be up for election in 2 months.

So...I would like to ask the current council members....Do you all have the time to devote to the council right now? Are you all sure there's not someone that's been nominated that would do a better job? And then you'd be able to run again in two months. I know there's been some concern about Wukei being able to give the board enough time, but if anyone does step aside, even for the sake of making elections run better, I'd like it to be their choice.

Also....for future elections....I think it's important that the people being nominated have to accept the nomination before they go to a vote.

And yeah....I think I will sticky this thread and not the ooc one....

edit: oh, also.....I think it would be a good idea to keep the first post of this thread up to date with, say...a list of the current council members, and next to each an indication of how many terms they have served and when they are up for reelection. It being llama's post, he'd probably have to be willing to keep it updated...that okay llama? or if you're too busy, I could do it too.

(and now...darn it Alarra...you get off this messageboard and go study....you have 2 midterms on Monday, and all you've done yesterday and today, is hang on here)

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-14, 07:06 PM
six council members, one mayor. ;D

Seven, so any voting that comes by can be decided, with the mayors vote. What was decided on eons ago was all are equal, but one for a tie breaker. ((thats me))

I like the idea of council terms, but not the 2 on 1 off idea. If someone is good at being a counciler, why put a limit on how long they can stand?

Also, three elections every 3 months seems good. Good time, good thinking, but what about the posistion of Mayor? ((kinda personal to me...)) same terms, or longer? shorter? Ive been the mayor for just about six months now, so if it is the same, I think its about time for a reelection. ((vote mortia))



Any thread which states the an NPC is available for reasonable use by any player is giving permission for ANY player to do so. No matter how peripheral, how new, how inexperienced. Don't feel bad or uncomfortable, the thread starter has allowed YOU to do this, he doesn't mind as long as you play that NPC within the rules he set up on the original post. eg Don't kill them or have them look the other way while you rob the store

I like this, and will add it, if anyone doesnt like it, put it to a vote, and if majority rules I will remove it. I like our town NPC's, and feel that they have been getting some inattention lately... ;D


And sneak, I love the time stop idea, and have a hard time saying no to you...

wxdruid
2006-10-14, 09:48 PM
I agree with having elections every three months, with someone serving a total of 6 months. Also serving for a total of two terms before sitting one out is also a good idea, allows for the newer people to serve on the council and get some new ideas and vitality in the council. Which means of course that we need to elect one more council member. Is there a council member that would like to consider stepping down? The elections every 3 months would allow for a good turnover in the council without killing everyone with constant elections.

Mortia, are you ready for a Mayoral race? I would consider the same could apply to the mayor, a total of two terms possible and then give someone else a chance to run for mayor. :-)

Those are my thoughts. :D

Murky_Pool
2006-10-14, 10:00 PM
I'm not sure anyone else would want the Mayors job though. Lets look at his recent activities

Fight all comers in the arena
Hit on other people's girlfriends (hee, hee. I did wince when you kissed Libris)
Get beaten up by your own daughter and dark side

Oh dear, it's really too late for me to be posting things with real people. Normal service will be resumed after some sleep

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-15, 12:15 AM
My suggestion of 6 months came about because 4-month terms would mean having elections every other month, which just seems far too often to expect much participation. I'm entirely willing and even eager to be proven wrong, but I just has my doubts.

On a more personal note: after writing up El J's battle flag this morning, I realized I rather miss being the "virtual herald" I was for several years on an LP MUD. I'm considering opening a College of Heraldry, to create and grant coats-of-arms to citizens and institutions of the Town. Would people be interested in this? I'd be happy to write up a charter and start granting coats, but only if's something folks would actually want to do.

Indurain
2006-10-15, 03:32 AM
The idea of an coat of arms for Indurain intrigues me greatly.

I also concur with the 6 month term idea, and staggered elections...that said...no, I don't want to give up my chair yet.

As for the 2 terms on/1 term off...I disagree. I say if they manage to get elected again...let them stay as long as the votes are coming. *bites lip about making comment on politics*

Fenric
2006-10-15, 10:25 AM
I like the heraldry idea.

AmberVael
2006-10-15, 10:28 AM
Must... resist... making coat of arms for everyone...
Stupid avatar making urges!

Rydia
2006-10-15, 11:48 AM
Ah, heraldy. Got you now, here I was thinking you ment like the town crier.

I wondered what they where doing with coats of arms. :D

Rydia wanders off in a daze.

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-15, 12:12 PM
Some thoughts: Combine Town Hall with Welcome to Town thread, or the TIAP thread.

Alarra
2006-10-15, 12:18 PM
If that's something we want to do, we'll do it after the move to new board, as then I'll be able to split and merge threads...

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-15, 12:26 PM
Ah, heraldy. Got you now, here I was thinking you ment like the town crier.

I wondered what they where doing with coats of arms. :D

Rydia wanders off in a daze.

Not so much the town crier thing, but heralds did make proclamations and such; it's believed that they escorted leaders in battle and were used as negotiators and announcers and such; after battles they were called upon to identify captured and slain knights by their coats-of-arms, thus the term "heraldry".

It seems like there's some actual interest in this, so I'll put my lil' brain to work on it sometime in the next few days.

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-15, 12:38 PM
If that's something we want to do, we'll do it after the move to new board, as then I'll be able to split and merge threads...

Alright, sounds cool.

Rydia
2006-10-15, 01:13 PM
Not so much the town crier thing, but heralds did make proclamations and such; it's believed that they escorted leaders in battle and were used as negotiators and announcers and such; after battles they were called upon to identify captured and slain knights by their coats-of-arms, thus the term "heraldry".

It seems like there's some actual interest in this, so I'll put my lil' brain to work on it sometime in the next few days.

Learn something new everyday!

Also since I hi-jacked my brothers laptop (^_^ yay) and since he is preocupied, I guess I should ask an avatarist, if they do them, for a heraldy thingy for him... "-_-

Destro_Yersul
2006-10-15, 05:42 PM
Darn it, now I have to find out the correct terms for Destro's heraldry.
*Goes to look it up*

wxdruid
2006-10-15, 07:33 PM
Here are the current thoughts on Term Limits and elections

Term Limits

Gwen 6 months-elections every three months for 1/2 the council and 2 on, 1 off term limits
Vael 4 months
Alarra 4 months-elections every two months for 1/2 the council
Mortia 6 months and a mayoral race every 6 months
Indurain 6 months and against term limits
El Jaspero 6 months-elections every three months for 1/2 the council and 2 on, 1 off term limits

Seems a majority of the people that posted like 6 month terms and there is some debate about term limits. I haven't seen any comments yet from Wukei, Trog or LLama on this particular topic. If I got your information wrong or you have further comments, please don't hesitate to post. :-)

Kyrian
2006-10-15, 07:45 PM
6 months-elections every three months for 1/2 the council and 2 on, 1 off term limits

There's my opinion....people have already explained good reasonings...so I don't feel the need to repeat them again.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-15, 09:19 PM
I would like to make sure that everyone knows I am against the term limit rule. I think that if someone starts to fail at their job, the people will just not elect them. If their good, why tell them no?

It would seem that the popular consensus is 6 months, and it would seem that a majority of the council feels that way also. I suggest putting a few things to a vote inside the council, then seeing what the people think. I motion for the following to be voted on.

Term limits: Yes or no.

6 month terms Yes or no.

Off set elections yes or no.

new, hot pink robes yes or no.

If the tallies say no, (or yes, for the first) we will then discuss the other options.


On another note, I do feel that it might be time to have another Mayoral race, if we decide to have the terms at 6 months. I would be coming up on my end of term.
((that and I would like to see if everyone else thinks that I am still the best man for the job...))

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-15, 09:22 PM
I second the Mayor's motion for the vote. Should we do this publicly, or via PM?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-15, 09:24 PM
I have always thought that the council sits in public session, so I say right here, on this page. We will have the council vote first, then let the people put in their 2 cents...

wxdruid
2006-10-15, 09:32 PM
I third :-) the Mayor's motion for a vote. (Is it possible to third a motion?) and I agree with Mortia that it should be public on this thread.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-15, 09:35 PM
Sure you can third it....

Just like Ender did...

((anyone want a cookie?))

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-15, 09:35 PM
Frankly, I agree that it should be a public vote, but being the "new kid" I thought I'd better check.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-15, 09:42 PM
*rolls on floor laughing at El J calling himself the "new guy"*

Rydia
2006-10-16, 04:46 AM
Rydia sighs and she is forced to write down what the "brother over the shoulder" tells her to.

There was a long speech attached to this about the hot pink robes, and something about the Llama already having that idea, but I would vote yes for the hot pink robes ;)

Little edit: I miss the "Hey all, hope you guys are going allright" and he threatens to take back the laptop. Honestly ::)

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-16, 07:39 AM
hiya Rydia and welcome to the Playground.

Waves hello to her brother as well.

TheQuestionable
2006-10-16, 04:15 PM
Just a couple questions from a newer face:

*If I make an island off the shores of the beach (out of human sight) that's inhabited by a ghost witch would that be allowed? And if I did would I need to record her into the Player Dictionary?

*Or could I make my Main Character as haven in the forest (maybe make a temple for small creatures who have no safe place to go)? Of course it would be made out of whatever Murvana can will or aid will allow.

*And if I bring Murvana's other from the Mirror World to stay premenantly would I also have to record her as well?

Flabbicus
2006-10-16, 04:22 PM
Just a couple questions from a newer face:

*If I make an island off the shores of the beach (out of human sight) that's inhabited by a ghost witch would that be allowed? And if I did would I need to record her into the Player Dictionary?

*Or could I make my Main Character as haven in the forest (maybe make a temple for small creatures who have no safe place to go)? Of course it would be made out of whatever Murvana can will or aid will allow.

*And if I bring Murvana's other from the Mirror World to stay premenantly would I also have to record her as well?



You don't even have to use the dictionary if you don't want.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-16, 04:30 PM
Just a couple questions from a newer face:

*If I make an island off the shores of the beach (out of human sight) that's inhabited by a ghost witch would that be allowed? And if I did would I need to record her into the Player Dictionary?

That is allowed and you would not need to record her in the player directory. You never have to record anyone, but sometimes its easier for new players to interact if they know a bit about the character they are interacting with.


*Or could I make my Main Character as haven in the forest (maybe make a temple for small creatures who have no safe place to go)? Of course it would be made out of whatever Murvana can will or aid will allow.
Go right ahead.


*And if I bring Murvana's other from the Mirror World to stay premenantly would I also have to record her as well?

Nope. To the best of my knowledge, Fenric does not pester those who don't register their characters. Well, maybe Kyrian he does.

Fenric
2006-10-16, 04:36 PM
The directory is for people who want to make things go more smoothly by having a single, central location to post their character information.

It is absolutely not required for you to ever post there (quite a few people who haven't). There are some requests surrounding what you should do if you choose to post there, listed in the very first post of the thread.

Also: for all you new folks, I am not updating the central directory until after the board move. I'm going to have to redo all of the links after that anyway.

Mik
2006-10-16, 05:26 PM
Nope. To the best of my knowledge, Fenric does not pester those who don't register their characters. Well, maybe Kyrian he does.


Yea yea yea...I don't have anything for any of my characters....bite me.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-16, 05:28 PM
*rolls on floor laughing at El J calling himself the "new guy"*

On this Council, I most certainly am. As the junior officer, I will begin the official voting:

Term limits: Yes. I think turnover is good.

6 month terms: Yes, provided we are having staggered elections. Otherwise, No.

Off set elections: Yes.

new, hot pink robes: Yes, if I can get one with sparkles.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-16, 05:37 PM
Yea yea yea...I don't have anything for any of my characters....bite me.
no, thank you, Mr. Werewolf. I don't want your lycanthrocooties.

As for the voting

Term Limits: Yes
6 months: Hmmm I was thinking 4, but I will trust El J's experience in these matters and vote YES.

Off set terms: No. Don't see it as neccessary.

Hot Pink Robes: Robes, yes. Other accessories, *looks at Librarian* no.

Murky_Pool
2006-10-16, 07:16 PM
Only robes eh Llama?

There's not a lot of point in voting then :(

((Oh dear, perhaps MY water has come down with Town disease))

wxdruid
2006-10-16, 07:19 PM
Term limits: Yes, 2 on, 1 off

6 month terms: Yes

Off set elections: Yes, every three months

new, hot pink robes: Gwen already wears a robe/cloak, it has lovely fall colors. LLama gave it to her and she doesn't need any other ones.

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-17, 06:29 PM
I came up with a good idea awhile ago, about having a Town Homepage Thread where you could keep links, notes and everything about the Town you need to remember. It doesn't only need to be about the town. Like mine would have all the notes about my character, and for switching accounts like avatar urls and what to put in your sig/avi text. Any comments, agreements?

Flabbicus
2006-10-17, 06:30 PM
I came up with a good idea awhile ago, about having a Town Homepage Thread where you could keep links, notes and everything about the Town you need to remember. It doesn't only need to be about the town. Like mine would have all the notes about my character, and for switching accounts like avatar urls and what to put in your sig/avi text. Any comments, agreements?

Doesn't the character thread already fulfill that function?

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-17, 06:33 PM
No, it's about characters AND MORE.

But I sorta guess so. Any addon ideas to it?

So maybe it's more like a Notes Thread. Or Fenric can make a Notes/Character titled thread.

Flabbicus
2006-10-17, 06:37 PM
No, it's about characters AND MORE.

But I sorta guess so. Any addon ideas to it?

So maybe it's more like a Notes Thread. Or Fenric can make a Notes/Character titled thread.

There is a note section within the character thread. :-/

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-17, 06:45 PM
Yeah, but it's not what I meant.

Kyrian
2006-10-17, 06:47 PM
I came up with a good idea awhile ago, about having a Town Homepage Thread where you could keep links, notes and everything about the Town you need to remember. It doesn't only need to be about the town.

Then why the hell would it be called Town Homepage Thread??

Seft Sirag
2006-10-17, 06:51 PM
I came up with a good idea awhile ago, about having a Town Homepage Thread where you could keep links, notes and everything about the Town you need to remember. It doesn't only need to be about the town. Like mine would have all the notes about my character, and for switching accounts like avatar urls and what to put in your sig/avi text. Any comments, agreements?

Surely its better just to have a folder on your desktop full of these things? that's what I do, and it works fine for me.

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-17, 07:05 PM
Then why the hell would it be called Town Homepage Thread??


I still don't understand why you can't be nice, Kyrian. You're 150% worse than Wukei.




Surely its better just to have a folder on your desktop full of these things? that's what I do, and it works fine for me.

Alright, I guess I'll do that.

Rydia
2006-10-17, 07:08 PM
Oh, I have a notepad document on my desktop ^_^

V ~_^ I thought so to!

Daedrous Avari
2006-10-17, 07:09 PM
Good idea, Ms. Fairy Floss.

Murky_Pool
2006-10-17, 07:28 PM
I keep my notes in an actual notebook by my desk. How retro am I !!

And grats to Kyrian for outperforming Wukei by a whole 50%

Kyrian
2006-10-17, 07:31 PM
I keep my notes in an actual notebook by my desk. How retro am I !!

And grats to Kyrian for outperforming Wukei by a whole 50%

Thank you. *bows*

Sneak
2006-10-17, 07:35 PM
Thank you for that very well thought out, clear, and insightful post, Kyrian. *It has indeed elucidated the situation.

*ducks bullet* *Dang, I forgot it was critical hippo hunting season.

EDIT: *And Murki, he didn't outdo her by 50%, he outdid her by 150%. *Rivik/Daedrous said 150% worse.

So I guess that would be 151% if you count Arha.

Murky_Pool
2006-10-17, 08:24 PM
I'm terrible at percentages sneak, I thought he meant Kyrian was 150% of Wukei's not inconsiderable skill. I'm going to lie down now.

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-17, 10:54 PM
Quick question from the paladin who is himself a knave: Where exactly is the entrance to the Black Market?

http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif

Rydia
2006-10-18, 04:24 AM
Lovely linky to help the fellow Paladin. ^_^ (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=town;action=display;num=1159282280)

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-18, 05:23 AM
Yeah, I saw that, I was thinking more along the lines of where this tunnel is in relation to other places in Town.

Murky_Pool
2006-10-18, 05:46 AM
It isn't as such. I asked the owner and he told me it's like an Adult Shop. Everyone knows where it is, but no one admits to going in.

If you want to buy something from there, just go to it, there's no need for special knowledge

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-18, 06:10 AM
Hey, Gaheris is a knave, but still a paladin. I was more thinking of a way around that ward than wanting to buy something. ;D

Murky_Pool
2006-10-18, 07:03 AM
Well, he probably won't appreciate a paladin raid on his shop if that's what you meant by "Way around that ward" so don't expect a welcome.

InaVegt
2006-10-18, 01:27 PM
I'm going to request something, Saint nicholas to appear in town, the first blocks have been set in motion but as it looks now it can just as easily happen as not. for more information about Saint nicholas or sinterklaas as he's usually called over here look Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas)

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-18, 01:37 PM
I'm intrigued and amused. You have an interesting set-up. Can you PM us a little bit more information on it? Will he be Godly? Will he brings gifts to good little llamas?

Or shoot me an AIM about him? I can't check it till I get home, but it'd be nice to have something to look forward to.

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-18, 03:10 PM
Well, he probably won't appreciate a paladin raid on his shop if that's what you meant by "Way around that ward" so don't expect a welcome.
I never expect a welcome. The only reason I'm asking about anything here is because I'm trying to feel out whether or not I'll just start a big OOC argument over whether I could do that.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-19, 06:56 AM
I want to make it clear from the get-go: I am writing this as El Jaspero the player, not El Jaspero the character.

I am requesting that the Town Council take some type of formal action against Eloquent_Rune for his actions last night. He lured El J, Thecla, Mik, Alex, and Alarra into an intensely godmodded fight beginning here (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=town;action=display;num=1157843272;s tart=144#144) which ended here (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=town;action=display;num=1157843272;s tart=226#226) in an attempt to sieze not only an on ongoing plotline, but an attempt to remove the character Agneta and an act of personal violence against Alarra bordering on rape, none of which was approved by those present.

As a participant in this disgusing event and the one bringing before the Council I will naturally not be voting on it, but I strongly desire that some action be taken. We pride the Town as a welcoming place goverend by social mores and a few simple rules, and Eloquent_Rune clearly failed them miserably last night. I formally request that the Town Council do something to enforce them.

-El Jaspero

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-19, 09:06 AM
hmmmm. We've never really been asked anything like this before. Thoughts from the other council members/townfolks on how to address this situation?

InaVegt
2006-10-19, 09:11 AM
Well I've read the last few pages on the thread in question, and That's very much godmodding, worse than the stuff I've done in the past.

Rydia
2006-10-19, 09:30 AM
Just thoughts from a new townee.

Well, this does seem to come from god-modding which came from conflict. Conflict does seem to be able to cause lots of problems to arrise from it since we have a "no stats" attitude. People do sometimes try to outdo to get a plot across or for other reasons.

Although I think this was a mere case of bad orginaization skills. If ER had stated that he didn't want you guys to defeat him until he did his plot, which I must say I had difficulty following "^_^, and what he was planning to do may have gone smoother.

I must wonder what the council is suposed to do, anymore actions rather than polietly requesting will just cause more anger and can lead to the mods believing that this whole "Town" thing should be taken down due to the space and problems it generates.

Alarra was also involved in this and she seemed to not have to much problem, merely stated that she couldn't save it. If anyone wants to do any action it would be Alarra, and I think she may have done it by then.

Maybe just talking to ER and asking what he was attempting to do, and what it was going to, and how the people involved needed to react. And this way any problems can be resolved before hand.

Phew.

There is no way I am doing political and legal.
^_^

Alarra
2006-10-19, 10:32 AM
Okay, I guess I have to weigh in here. Yes, that fight was run very poorly. Yes, his last action amounted to extreme godmodding, especially being as I had already expressed to him that I was clearly not going to allow that to happen.

However, that being said, he knows his actions were wrong, he changed them, apologized to everyone involved and is going to work hard to not do that in the future.

I don't know what the council would do, as there isn't a precedent for this. I'm sorry, but I'm the type of person that tries to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and help them learn. But I guess whatever you think.

wxdruid
2006-10-19, 10:36 AM
My thought as a council person and as the judge, If Alarra and El Jaspero wish to press charges and take it to court, this is one possible solution. He could be charged with assault and stalking.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-19, 11:16 AM
I can see that I was not clear enough in my initial post.

The godmodding in the fight is of little concern to me. That happens all the time; if he had an outcome in mind he should have expressed it better so we could have helped him reach that vision, but meh.

I am, however, extremely angry and disgusted at his treatment of Alarra without her permission. That someone would think it right to treat a fellow Townsperson this way is revolting and, if tolerated, sets a terrible precedent. That is why I have taken this directly to the Council: a bright, hard line has been crossed here, and it is the Council's duty to protect the Town's citizens by making it clear where that line is, and what the price is for crossing it.

My personal preference would be banishment, but I am willing to listen to other ideas.

AmberVael
2006-10-19, 11:21 AM
Anger I can understand. Infuriation I can commiserate with. But asking someone be banned from Town is even worse than what he did.
Rather than toss him out, maybe you should try and help him figure out where things went wrong. that would be a very preferable way to deal with things. As it has been said, he already said he was sorry, apologized, and said he would try to do better in the future, not to mention he changed it so that the disapproved action did not happen.
If our council approves of this banishment, I no longer approve of our council. That is simply going too far.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-19, 11:37 AM
Banishment is extreme for a first offense, especially since E_R is a relative newcomer to the Town. This sort of thing has sadly happened before, but its been a long time ago.

It is true that E_R should have talked with Alarra before starting the plot, but he didn't and things went sour. He has apologized and we can work on correcting his mistakes. The plot can be written out of continuity if all parties so desire. (heck, kyrian, phoenix and I once deleted 4 whole pages of Milk Bar when a plot of ours went where it shouldn't have.)

If El J chooses to not be a part of his next plot, that is his right. I wish I could post more, but I need to get back to work.

Mik
2006-10-19, 11:38 AM
(heck, kyrian, phoenix and I once deleted 4 whole pages of Milk Bar when a plot of ours went where it shouldn't have.)

((Hehe...I remember that...awful hard for me while I was on wireless in Florida))

Lord Iames Osari
2006-10-19, 11:42 AM
I agree with Vael and Atreyu. Yesterday night, Eloquent Rune expressed his regret about godmodding to me in an AIM conversation. I didn't save the conversation or follow up on it, as I assumed it was an isolated instance rather than a continuous one. But banishment is too harsh, especially on a member who has only been here for a few days - a week at most. If someone persistently and consistently godmods over a long period, then perhaps banishment might be merited. But Eloquent Rune is a new member and may not have realized his error.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-19, 11:47 AM
Hmmm....but what can we do to prevent from happening in thefuture??

Add a new section to the welcome to the town thread about running plots?

wxdruid
2006-10-19, 11:47 AM
As I understand the council, they do not have the power to banish someone. Talk to-yes, take to court-yes, all within the Town. He has apologized and I'm more than willing to talk with him about the whole incident, if El Jaspero wants me to.

InaVegt
2006-10-19, 11:51 AM
*Gently reminds gwen to check her PM's*

wxdruid
2006-10-19, 12:41 PM
Yes, Gezina I have checked my PM's. :-) I think it's a cute idea, go ahead.

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-19, 12:51 PM
And this kind of thing is precisely why I said this:


I never expect a welcome. The only reason I'm asking about anything here is because I'm trying to feel out whether or not I'll just start a big OOC argument over whether I could do that.
It is abundantly obvious that Eloquent_Rune is either completely inexperienced with freeform roleplaying or is willfully ignoring all the conventions despite knowing them. I'm not on the council, so it's not my call in any way, shape, or form, but I would suggest putting him on a probation of sorts, and maybe assigning him a mentor if both he and someone who can mentor him agree to it. It looks like he just needs to learn, and turning him loose into the Town again without any sort of guidance (has he even seen this complaint that we know about?) won't accomplish much.

InaVegt
2006-10-19, 01:17 PM
Well, I've started the first thread for it.

wxdruid
2006-10-19, 02:51 PM
So far El J, Atreyu and I have put our two cents in on Term Limits, 6 month terms, Offset elections and robe colors. We are still waiting to hear from Mortia, Wukei, Trog and Indurain. I have nicely reminded everyone by PM about this matter. :-)

Supagoof
2006-10-19, 05:08 PM
As I understand the council, they do not have the power to banish someone. Talk to-yes, take to court-yes, all within the Town. He has apologized and I'm more than willing to talk with him about the whole incident, if El Jaspero wants me to.

The IC and OOC of this has me swirling in confusion like El Jaspero's blade.

If OOC the council seeks to do anything, then it will be to talk to E_R about the actions he took, which he has already tried to make up for. Anything further is really out of their hands.

Banishment should be left to the Mods.

As for God-modding, there are multiple ways to deal with it, other then harsh words. They are again, ignoring the post, being more creative then the post, getting a mod to speak with person making the post.

The council is not a group of Mods. They are a group of people who the town trusts to help with the organization of plots/characters. They do their best with the time they volunteer to help us from tripping over and into each other, as we each come up with our own unique storylines and attempt to make them interact. It seems to me that E_R tripped, and fell hard. The council helps us keep civilized, to a point that a bunch of sword weilding magic users with divine powers of imagination can be civilized :P.

To ask them too, or expect them too be able to govern who can or who can not play in the town, is just too much.

That being said, if IC El Jaspero wanted action for the attack, there have been places set up and do run quite well for dealing with issues like this IC. The courthouse, the police station, and the arena are just a few that come to mind.

I like to think of Godmodding a little like a person whose has a drug addiction. You can try to help them (by assigning a mentor to help, sending suggestions), but unless they want the help, it would do no good. If the drug addiction (god modding) lasts too long, people will eventually not want to be around (play or post) with the addict (godmodder).

I feel bad that such an event did happen, to you El Jaspero, Alarra, and also the others around you. It does take two however, to keep a thread going, and as much as you were being godmodded (attacked if you will), you were also letting it happen to you (by not changing the posting forum to somewhere else, teleporting out, or ignoring E_R).

Anyway, that's my two cents on the whole subject. If I offended anyone by my words, I apologize - twas not my intent. Like any advice, you may either heed it or ignore it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On another happier note, if the council wants to have a vote every 6 months, I will gladly offer my assistance in tallying the votes again. With the last round having a three way tie for second, I'm most interested to see which of those three would win if Gwen hadn't taken so much of the voting percentage. ;D

Viva La TOWN!

Graklok
2006-10-19, 05:11 PM
Graklok runs through the town hall.

"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

Exachix
2006-10-19, 05:12 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On another happier note, if the council wants to have a vote every 6 months, I will gladly offer my assistance in tallying the votes again. With the last round having a three way tie for second, I'm most interested to see which of those three would win if Gwen hadn't taken so much of the voting percentage. ;D

Same here. I'll help when needed =D

Hoseki
2006-10-19, 05:18 PM
Graklok runs through the town hall.

"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

Thank you, Graklok, for lightening the mood. ;D

EloquentRune
2006-10-19, 05:22 PM
I the player of Eloquent Rune wish to address the council on my actions last night.

I am sincerely sorry for my actions and have tried to change them. I did go too far and now have an understanding of how plots should be handled.
I have great respect for all of the members of these fine message boards and hope that my actions will cause no harm to any of them.
It is true that I have only been in town for about a week and rushed into making a plot.

I leave it to the decision of the council and will comply to any and all decisions about these circumstances peacefully and 100%.

Indurain
2006-10-19, 05:27 PM
Personally, I feel that E_R understands what he did wrong now, and will make an effort to avoid any such situations in the future. I think OOC what needs to be said has been said.

As for IC, than it is entirely up to Alarra, El J and the others present to decide if charges would be required.

Personally, I don't think banishment is necessary, especially if the most offended party (Alarra) has come forth showing her understanding.

As for the vote, I thought my voice had been heard.

6 month term: YES
Staggered Elections: YES
Robes: I think my stance on clothing is fairly obvious.
Term Limits: NO (And I will back this up once again with the argument that if people feel the council are doing a good job, then they should be allowed to stay as long as the people continue to vote them in. I'd use RL examples but politics are not allowed on these forums.)

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-19, 05:44 PM
Good evening, friends.

I'm glad to see that discussion is happening on this matter. Only by talking about it can we address it. I am, however, sadly disappointed in the response.

Atreyu, you acknowledged that this has happened before; why are we even talking about this then? I don't think you meant to, but you're helping me make my case. By not dealing with this harshly...heck, by not dealing with it at all, the Council is expressing a policy of tolerance. By tolerating this, you're approving of it, and by approving of it you're encouraging it, and you're all guilty the next time it happens.

Furthermore, several people have expressed sympathy for E_R because he's a newcomer. I am one of them. As I have said before, my issue is not with his godmodding. Yes, the Town, much less running an event, is a tricky business that's fraught with subtle challenges. It does not, however, take an experienced roleplayer to know that raping people is wrong. It is always, always wrong, no matter what the context. Always.

E_R himself has expressed his regret at his mishandling of the plot. As noted above, this is not my issue. I have yet to see him express regret for violating a fellow Townsperson, and continue to call upon the Town Council to take a stand against this disgusting, violent act.

-El J

Renegade Paladin
2006-10-19, 07:04 PM
Holy Christ, I'd totally skimmed over that part when reading the fight. I'd seen so much godmode by then that I was just getting the general gist of things by the end.

Forcibly impregnating someone else's character? How the hell could anyone consider that acceptable behavior at any time?

Alarra
2006-10-19, 07:06 PM
Okay. First off, the council does not have the power to ban people from the town, and even if they did, it certainly would not be a punishment for a first offense.

I can see where you are coming from El J, but I for one, did not see his actions as akin to rape, and I'm certain neither did he. That was in no way the intention of this plot.

The truth of the matter is that E_R and I were in discussion about this plot ahead of time, at least slightly. So the major problem that I had with it was the fact that I expressed that I would not allow that to happen and he posted that it did anyway.

E_R has expressed regret for his actions, changed the action, and is going to work to do things better in the future. I think this is about the best outcome we can expect right now, at least OOC...should you want to do something IC with pressing charges, you and I can discuss that later.

Flabbicus
2006-10-19, 07:17 PM
I would like to state that from a "citizen" of The Town's view E_R's actions did not appear to be rape of any forms. More along the lines of possessing the baby.

And banishment of any form is bad, m'kay?

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-19, 08:04 PM
I would like to state that from a "citizen" of The Town's view E_R's actions did not appear to be rape of any forms. More along the lines of possessing the baby.

Forgive me; once I find a better term for "forced, violent impregnation against the victim's will" I will be glad to use it. Rape is about power and control of another's body, not about sex. Can you deny that was what Eloquent_Rune was doing?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-19, 08:09 PM
I want to make it clear from the get-go: I am writing this as El Jaspero the player, not El Jaspero the character.

I am requesting that the Town Council take some type of formal action against Eloquent_Rune for his actions last night. He lured El J, Thecla, Mik, Alex, and Alarra into an intensely godmodded fight beginning here (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=town;action=display;num=1157843272;s tart=144#144) which ended here (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=town;action=display;num=1157843272;s tart=226#226) in an attempt to sieze not only an on ongoing plotline, but an attempt to remove the character Agneta and an act of personal violence against Alarra bordering on rape, none of which was approved by those present.

As a participant in this disgusing event and the one bringing before the Council I will naturally not be voting on it, but I strongly desire that some action be taken. We pride the Town as a welcoming place goverend by social mores and a few simple rules, and Eloquent_Rune clearly failed them miserably last night. I formally request that the Town Council do something to enforce them.

-El Jaspero


Ok, I havent read through the other replies yet, (and I imagine that there are a few) but I will clearly say, as has been said before, and is said in the Welcome to the town thread, The council is for advice only. We have no power to take action, nor do we have any right to. We help to keep things organized, give advise where it is needed, usually when asked for, sometime when it is not, but we cant, nor should we, ever try to take adverse actions against some one. That gives the council too much power.

With the thing of godmodding, I have learned (RL, not RP) that problems met with anger almost always lead to more anger, and that it will spiral into a vortex of malice, hate, and discontent. To take some kind of action against someone would be acting based off of someone's anger on behalf of the council, and I personally would hate to see that happen.

On the other hand, if anger or discontent is met with compassion and a try at understanding, then the problem will usually fix its self. That is why I started the TIAP thread, to try to help people to get along.

Here is my recommendation. I suggest that El J, being the most senior person on the boards (post count) and the newest member of the council, should make an effort to educate E_R, and teach him how to drive a storyline home with out offending people, or godmodding.

I agree that the biggest reason for most godmods is a lack of communication, but he did apologize for it, and I believe that an apology warrants forgiveness. Instead of trying to punish someone that was acting out of ignorance, why not just try to abolish the ignorance? I know that if we could manage that, more people might be willing to come to the town and play with us.

You see, this is the moment when we decide what kind of people we are going to be. The kind that are spiteful and vindictive towards those that don't do the things that we do, or the kind of people that reach out to those that don't understand fully how we play, and try to help them in that. I personally choose the latter.

AmberVael
2006-10-19, 08:15 PM
I hate to change your plans, Mortia, but I have already worked out with ER that I will give him a bit of help. If he wants two tutors, thats his choice, but I doubt he will.

Just give the guy another chance, okay El J?

Lord Iames Osari
2006-10-19, 08:21 PM
*sways and sings* " 'Cause all we are saaaaayiiinnnnnnng... is give peace him a chaaaaaaance...."

wxdruid
2006-10-19, 08:22 PM
Here are my feelings,

(They are very hard to write, and these are my feelings and thoughts and not meant as anything else), Alarra expressed that she did NOT want something to happen, yet Eloquent Rune did it anyway. I can only say how I would feel if someone did that to Gwen. I would feel betrayed, I would feel that I didn't matter, that my character was stomped on, crushed underfoot. It has happened to me personally, I do not wish it on anyone, never. I don't know how to stop it in the future, I only hope that it would never happen.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-19, 11:28 PM
My apologies to El J if it seemed I was attacking him personally, that was not my intent. I have finished reading the comments back, and where the event occurred, and my opinion has altered slightly.

I have two opinions, and I will state them both, one is IC, the other, OOC. I believe that these are aligned with what El J had in mind, and if that is the case, I agree with it 100%.

IC:
Rape is a worse crime than murder. It leaves the victim broken, feeling betrayed, and it is a violation of the worst sort. Now, the debate is, did a rape occur? E_R changed what had happened after he realized that he had offended everyone. It will go to trial, lead (hopefully) by Gwen, and judged by me. We will, IC, settle what needs to be settled, but I agree with Alarra, banishment is not a first offense punishment.

OOC:
I think that E_R has learned a lesson. I think that he might be a better RP'er for this experience, but I also think that he needs someone to guide him. Dancing man has stepped up to the plate on this matter, and I would like to thank him for this. I will also spend a little more effort in the storylines to try to help people keep the Godmodding to a minimum, but remember that the council only has the power of suggestion, not rules. What ever weight that carries, we cant stop someone from doing anything. We don't have the authority from the MOD's. Now, the OOC debate is, did E_R do something that is outside the rules of the thread? I cant say, that is for the Mods to do. It was a violation, yes. But I don't know that it violates anything else. It wasn't a graphic violation, unwanted, yes, but to the point of not being PG? I don't think so. This has brought to mind that maybe the Welcome to the town thread might need some editing, to include proper treatment of other players, but I would hate to limit people on how evil they can be. The Varity gives a spice to the town.

Now, my personal opinion. I think that this topic has been talked to death. The have been many resolutions, and many suggestions offered, but the point remains, he made a mistake. He apologized for it, and in the thread, corrected his actions. I say settle it IC, and OOC, basically hope he learns from it, and give him what ever support he needs. There has been much passion, and a lot of intense thoughts and words, I would say, aside from the trial, and the mentoring, let the mater lie.

Indurain
2006-10-20, 12:27 AM
My apologies to El J if it seemed I was attacking him personally, that was not my intent. I have finished reading the comments back, and where the event occurred, and my opinion has altered slightly.

I have two opinions, and I will state them both, one is IC, the other, OOC. I believe that these are aligned with what El J had in mind, and if that is the case, I agree with it 100%.

IC:
Rape is a worse crime than murder. It leaves the victim broken, feeling betrayed, and it is a violation of the worst sort. Now, the debate is, did a rape occur? E_R changed what had happened after he realized that he had offended everyone. It will go to trial, lead (hopefully) by Gwen, and judged by me. We will, IC, settle what needs to be settled, but I agree with Alarra, banishment is not a first offense punishment.

OOC:
I think that E_R has learned a lesson. I think that he might be a better RP'er for this experience, but I also think that he needs someone to guide him. Dancing man has stepped up to the plate on this matter, and I would like to thank him for this. I will also spend a little more effort in the storylines to try to help people keep the Godmodding to a minimum, but remember that the council only has the power of suggestion, not rules. What ever weight that carries, we cant stop someone from doing anything. We don't have the authority from the MOD's. Now, the OOC debate is, did E_R do something that is outside the rules of the thread? I cant say, that is for the Mods to do. It was a violation, yes. But I don't know that it violates anything else. It wasn't a graphic violation, unwanted, yes, but to the point of not being PG? I don't think so. This has brought to mind that maybe the Welcome to the town thread might need some editing, to include proper treatment of other players, but I would hate to limit people on how evil they can be. The Varity gives a spice to the town.

Now, my personal opinion. I think that this topic has been talked to death. The have been many resolutions, and many suggestions offered, but the point remains, he made a mistake. He apologized for it, and in the thread, corrected his actions. I say settle it IC, and OOC, basically hope he learns from it, and give him what ever support he needs. There has been much passion, and a lot of intense thoughts and words, I would say, aside from the trial, and the mentoring, let the mater lie.

Well said. I agree completely!

Rydia
2006-10-20, 03:55 AM
At most maybe a week in jail, and then if El Jaspero would like to write some guidelines to put in the "welcome to the town" thread to show the people what exactly where we are drawing the line.

This way one can not claim ignorence. The way ER seems to have handled himself after wards in in a way of regret and he knows what he did is wrong. Punishment will not make anything better.

Rydia skips off^_^

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-20, 07:35 AM
I would hear from the rest of the Council on Mortia's proposal.

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-20, 08:48 AM
My apologies to El J if it seemed I was attacking him personally, that was not my intent. I have finished reading the comments back, and where the event occurred, and my opinion has altered slightly.

I have two opinions, and I will state them both, one is IC, the other, OOC. I believe that these are aligned with what El J had in mind, and if that is the case, I agree with it 100%.

IC:
Rape is a worse crime than murder. It leaves the victim broken, feeling betrayed, and it is a violation of the worst sort. Now, the debate is, did a rape occur? E_R changed what had happened after he realized that he had offended everyone. It will go to trial, lead (hopefully) by Gwen, and judged by me. We will, IC, settle what needs to be settled, but I agree with Alarra, banishment is not a first offense punishment.

OOC:
I think that E_R has learned a lesson. I think that he might be a better RP'er for this experience, but I also think that he needs someone to guide him. Dancing man has stepped up to the plate on this matter, and I would like to thank him for this. I will also spend a little more effort in the storylines to try to help people keep the Godmodding to a minimum, but remember that the council only has the power of suggestion, not rules. What ever weight that carries, we cant stop someone from doing anything. We don't have the authority from the MOD's. Now, the OOC debate is, did E_R do something that is outside the rules of the thread? I cant say, that is for the Mods to do. It was a violation, yes. But I don't know that it violates anything else. It wasn't a graphic violation, unwanted, yes, but to the point of not being PG? I don't think so. This has brought to mind that maybe the Welcome to the town thread might need some editing, to include proper treatment of other players, but I would hate to limit people on how evil they can be. The Varity gives a spice to the town.

Now, my personal opinion. I think that this topic has been talked to death. The have been many resolutions, and many suggestions offered, but the point remains, he made a mistake. He apologized for it, and in the thread, corrected his actions. I say settle it IC, and OOC, basically hope he learns from it, and give him what ever support he needs. There has been much passion, and a lot of intense thoughts and words, I would say, aside from the trial, and the mentoring, let the mater lie.

I think the mayor speaks words of wisdom and I agree. Thank you Earin for your offer of mentorship.

wxdruid
2006-10-20, 11:02 AM
I have no problem overseeing a trial, but with that said I leave it to El Jaspero and Alarra as I believe it is their choice if they wish to be involved in a trial.

Trial: There are two ways to have a trial

Town vs Eloquent Rune

El Jaspero and Alarra vs Eloquent Rune

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thank Earin for volunteering to mentor Eloquent Rune.

AmberVael
2006-10-20, 11:17 AM
I just had a thought that semi-came from this incident.
ER was not going to be able to get back on for a bit (until after the switch), so I told him I would write up a helpful guide and send it to him so he could read it later at his leisure.
I know we already have a little of that in the welcome thread, but when I finish it, would people like me to post it somewhere? I intend on going a bit more in depth about godmodding and meta-gaming, and quite a bit about plots.
So should I post it when I'm done? And where?

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-20, 11:21 AM
sounds great, Earin. I suppose for the sake of procedure, you should post it here. Then we can all marvel over it and officially declare it be part of the Welcome to the Town thread. or we can suggest minor changes then you can add it.

But i'd say post it here first.

Rydia
2006-10-20, 11:27 AM
^ I don't know ~_^ Posting it in the stabbity death thread sounds very tempting...

AmberVael
2006-10-20, 12:20 PM
I like the idea of posting it in Stabbity Death.
"You die a rulesibbity head a'splode death!"
But anyways, rough draft part one: Godmod.
[hr]
A Definitive Explanation of Godmodding, and How to Avoid it.

-Godmodding:
Taking control someone else's character without their expressive permission. This term applies to any extent of control, especially including any reactions to something you have done.

Using this definition of godmodding condenses our rule ‘Do not Godmod’ to one very simple but inclusive rule: Do not control someone else’s character. This seems a simple enough thing to avoid, but in some situations (such as combat) people take control in a limited way without realizing it.
Still using combat as our example, here are three examples of godmodding (Using my character as an example, darn my godmodding ;)) One blatant, one general, and one subtle in successive order:
1. Vael shoots a blast of energy at (PC) and the energy rends (PC) who falls dead with a wail.
2. Vael swings a sword at (PC) and strikes home, leaving a small angry red line of blood.
The third example is split into two posts by two separate people to show the entire situation:
3. Post (PC) – (PC) draws his weapon and readies himself for combat, going on the defensive.
Post (Vael) – Vael slashes (NPC) and reversed the attack, striking at (PC)

The first example of godmodding is obvious, I attacked someone and killed them, usurping all of their control over their character, not even allowing them to describe how they died.
The second example is fairly noticeable as well. I attacked and rather than allowing them control over their character, I went ahead and said that they were hit.
The last one is a rather subtle godmod, though it is still there. I did not post a definite reaction for the PC, only saying that I attacked them. I did not kill anyone’s NPC without their permission, only using the NPC with general license. However, what I did do was presume that I hit the NPC. What if (PC), or another person nearby had wanted to prevent me from harming the NPC? I effectively denied them a chance to react to my attack, though my use of the NPC was okay.
Now that I have defined godmodding and given some examples, the question to answer is: How can I avoid godmodding by accident?
The answer is this: You can try to do anything to someone, but they control what actually happens to themselves. Never deny someone a chance to react, no matter what you do. Before you post, consider what you have written. Do you directly affect someone with it, adversely or positively? Do you block them off from some options that someone would normally have in their situation? If the answer to either question is yes, you probably need to revise your post.

wxdruid
2006-10-20, 12:57 PM
Thecla wags her tail and howls at the moon. :-)

Maybe add a slight bit about preapproved godmodding type things. I know sometimes I move Thecla and Mik around via teleport, but I also know that he won't mind.

Also in the instance when DbtMD killed Thecla, I gave him permission to kill her.

Bow.
2006-10-20, 01:07 PM
Or that sometimes people could be the same person in different accounts (Like when Fenhai would be killed by Peter-John)

AmberVael
2006-10-20, 01:09 PM
Taking control someone else's character without their expressive permission.
But I will add a clause that makes it clearer, it does make sense.

Alarra
2006-10-27, 12:44 PM
Hey.

I'm here to ask permission for stopping time on the 20th or sometime around then. I figured that as long as the boards are down, there might as well be a legitimate reason. I'll come up with some kind of twisted plot to go with it if it's approved. Although I don't see why it shouldn't be, since the forums are down anyway.

Of course, I'll have to do it a bit in advance, as I won't be able to post it right when the forums go down. But although it'll be a pre-emptive post, it won't actually take place until the forum stop.

Did this end up happening?

wxdruid
2006-10-27, 12:47 PM
I didn't see Sneak actually post it, I would've enjoyed it.

AmberVael
2006-10-27, 01:20 PM
And so, while Town was gone, we have gained:
A NEW AND IMPROVED GODMODDING/PLOT HELP GUIDE:

A Definitive Explanation of Godmodding, and How to Avoid it.

-Godmodding:
Taking control someone else's character without their expressive permission. This term applies to any extent of control, especially including any reactions to something you have done.

Using this definition of godmodding condenses our rule ‘Do not Godmod’ to one very simple but inclusive rule: Do not control someone else’s character. This seems a simple enough thing to avoid, but in some situations (such as combat) people take control in a limited way without realizing it.
Still using combat as our example, here are three examples of godmodding (By me, darn my godmodding ;)) One blatant, one general, and one subtle in successive order:
1. Vael shoots a blast of energy at (PC) and the energy rends (PC) who falls dead with a wail.
2. Vael swings a sword at (PC) and strikes home, leaving a small angry red line of blood.
The third example is split into two posts by two separate people to show the entire situation:
3. Post (PC) – (PC) draws his weapon and readies himself for combat, going on the defensive.
Post (Vael) – Vael slashes (NPC), giving him a gaping wound and reverses the attack, striking at (PC)

The first example of godmodding is obvious, I attacked someone and killed them, usurping all of their control over their character, not even allowing them to describe how they died.
The second example is fairly noticeable as well. I attacked and rather than allowing them control over their character, I went ahead and said that they were hit.
The last one is a rather subtle godmod, though it is still there. I did not post a definite reaction for the PC, only saying that I attacked them. I did not kill anyone’s NPC without their permission, only using the NPC with general license. However, what I did do was presume that I hit the NPC. What if (PC), or another person nearby had wanted to prevent me from harming the NPC? I effectively denied them a chance to react to my attack, though my use of the NPC was okay.
Now that I have defined godmodding and given some examples, the question to answer is: How can I avoid godmodding by accident?
The answer is this: You can try to do anything to someone, but they control what actually happens to themselves. Never deny someone a chance to react, no matter what you do. Before you post, consider what you have written. Do you directly affect someone with it, adversely or positively? Do you block them off from some options that someone would normally have in their situation? If the answer to either question is yes, you probably need to revise your post.
Note, however, that the definition states that this is only godmodding if you do not have someone’s permission. If you obtain someone’s OOC permission to godmod, then feel free to godmod against them within their restraints. However, I recommend that you merely work out someone’s response before time, just in case something unexpected comes up (like another player interfering).
Also note that there is another form of godmodding, which will be known as ‘passive godmodding’ (kudos to Iames for the name). Passive godmodding is when a player ignores an entirely legitimate post for little to no reason. If you miss reading a post, that is one thing, but to ignore a post intentionally is very bad form. You are allowed to react to someone’s post in nearly any way you want, but ignoring it really should not be done unless they are godmodding or adversely affecting an ongoing plot without permission. On that last note-

Plots: How to create and interact with them

Plots are rather delicate issues in Town. Most people have preconceived notions as to how they want their plot to begin, proceed and end, so even normally allowed posts may be considered godmodding (or at least interfering) for the purposes of a plot.
When interacting with something that appears to be an ongoing plot, consider your actions carefully. If they have significant impact on the plot, you normally should check your action with the player either by PM or OOC conversation.
Actually tacking down a definitive way to avoid this is rather tricky, because what you can and cannot do to a plot is largely determined by the plot’s nature and its creator. In general, if your character has an easy and simple solution to a plot problem, check with the creator of the plot. Characters in plots are also largely immune to death from non-plot sources, since their health may be vital to the advancement of a story, so try not to fatally wound them, or you may be ignored.
Creating a plot is fairly simple. Think of your plot. If it affects a large portion of town, involves a fairly powerful character (lets say around 40 or more ECL) or involves a large number of NPCs (think army or large group), you should get it approved by the council. Please note, however, that the council DOES NOT have the authority to keep you from creating and starting your plot. They do, however, give you a general idea of how the town will react to the plot, whether it seems as though you might godmod with your plot, and what they think should be improved/changed/edited from your plot. The final decision of whether your plot happens or not comes from YOU. The council is merely a handy group which can give you advice and ideas for your plot. If the council does not approve of your plot, and you run it anyways, many people may ignore your plot due to the problems that the council saw in it. It is far easier for everyone if you merely abide by the councils decisions and advice.
When running your plot, I urge you to be adaptive. Let people join in with their own ideas and abilities, and be willing to see your plot change and the final ending be somewhat different. If you have your heart set on a certain ending or a certain path, either try to work around people’s acts/decisions, or talk to them OOC about what you would prefer. Most people will understand your preferences, and abide by your wishes. It is your plot after all. However, they want to have fun too. Try not to just ignore what someone does unless you have too. I know I said earlier that people have preconceived notions, and that they have the liberty to ignore posts if they interfere, but I find that the best plots are the ones that go with the flow and work with the characters as they react. If you want to make an exclusive, extremely rigid plot, I advise that you write a story rather than play it out on the boards. Interaction is what RP is all about, after all.

And there you have it. Any suggestions/questions?

Flabbicus
2006-10-27, 03:02 PM
I have a question regarding assassinations, connected to the shift to the new boards.


If I were to, for example, send a PM to the victim that I fire a bullet into his chest and he/she/it has blocked all known mafia members or has a buddy list PM system in place, what should we do?

Can we just tell people not to do that?

wxdruid
2006-10-27, 05:30 PM
Here's what the Changes in Forum Software Thread at the top of the page

"Another long requested feature that the new boards have is a Buddy/Ignore List. The Buddy list allows you to be notified when certain posters are online, and sort your PMs accordingly. The Ignore List allows you to ignore certain posters who possibly get on your nerves and would provoke a rule breaking reaction. You cannot ignore Mods or Admins, and there is a "ghost post" where the ignored post would be, so that you can click on it to see what was said if you so desire."

I would say, experiment with it and find out exactly how this works.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-27, 05:39 PM
Earin: Nice thoughts on godmodding, but I would note that all your examples are combats. While this is likely the most common form of godmodding, it is clearly worth noting and warning people that RP godmodding is just as wrong, and is probably an easier trap to fall into. I'd like to see some out-of-combat examples added as well.

The Council as a whole: I have discussed the matter of E_R with Alarra, and we have chosen not to go forward with a trial. Should The Town itself feel it wants to press charges I will assist in any way I can.

AmberVael
2006-10-27, 06:14 PM
Sounds to be a good idea, El J. I'll wait for some more suggestions and then post a revised version (or change my old post)

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-27, 09:39 PM
Well, looks like you have it semi sorted eljaspero.

*Death sips a ginger beer*

I do enjoy these things.

*Death takes some taxpayers money and goes to order another*

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-27, 10:40 PM
Earin, I like the idea of a more indetail form of the anti godmodding slogan, but I must agree with my comrads, could you possibly come up with some other forms than combat? I for one would gladly give you permission to post in the Welcome to the town thread, and I would even include a comment in my first post saying to look down for more information on godmodding. I would like to see afinished version before I do that though. Perhaps some of the other council memebers would be able to write some on other than combat Godmods? Just a thought.

AmberVael
2006-10-27, 10:46 PM
As I said to El J, I'll wait for any other suggestions, then put a fully revised version up.
Anything else to be added/changed besides other examples?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-27, 10:51 PM
On the plot subject, I had begun to work on a simmilar thing. I had it subdevided into diffrent parts, namely the who, what, when, where, why, and how of a characters plot. I belive that if all those questions are answered, a plot will be throughly interisting and well layed out. If I can find it, I will PM it to you, and see what we can come up with together. If not, yours seems fairly complete anyway. You seem to have covered most of what I was thinking.

AmberVael
2006-10-27, 10:57 PM
That would be cool. If you could actually PM me. I know I can't PM you. I already tried. I was going to talk to you about Arena Stats, but oh well.
Suffice to say, I was bored, and I didn't feel like dealing with Homebrew stuff anymore, so I made by-the-rules legit stats for you.
Its rather different than your other Arena stats in some ways, but still very good.
Did you go back through your PM box and delete all the old stuff? I think that is what blocks PMing at the moment. Isn't that what they say in the Forum Issues?
*Goes and checks*

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-27, 11:14 PM
Yup, deleted all 1,248 PM's No change. I think that the PM system is just down for now. Here, I just made a faux E-mail through Yahoo. Send it here, and We will talk. I will edit this post as soon as I recive your E-mail.

mayormdld@yahoo.com

Ah, heck. Its a faux e-mail anyway, so I will leave it around for a while. If anyone needs to contact the Mayor for anything, I will put this as my E-mail, and have keep it open for town purposes...

AmberVael
2006-10-27, 11:19 PM
Tis done. You can now edit when you receive.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-27, 11:51 PM
K Thanx!

So, does anyone know the results of the current vote? have all the councilers voted? I am waiting for last, as I am supposed to be the tie breaker...

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-28, 12:25 AM
*Checks the thread*

Ah, El Jaspero is the next councilperson. Good to know that it is given to a honourable gentleman, not that gentlewomen aren't honourable...

We worked out the terms and what not? Since this is a new server, and almost end of the month, it may be good to start changes around about now.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-28, 01:08 AM
Well, on the matter of changing things a little, (kinda been done already, but hey, change is good right???) Heres the current tally from the council regarding, well, the council.

Term limits, 3 yes, one no

Six month terms 4 yes, zero no

Off set elections, 3 yes, one no

Hot pink robes, two yes, two no.

Now that 4 councilers have voted, I will put my two cents in, and give some a majortity.

Term limits. I dont see them as nessarary, but after a bit of thought, changes in leadership have not ofter turned out in vain, so yes. Lets keep the leadership in flux, and see what happens.

Six month terms. I have liked this from the begining, so Yes.

Off set elections. Yes. Keeps some in while others learn their new places.

Pink robes. Yes. But that only takes the tally to 3 vs 2. Need one more counciler to vote on this...

So, by majority vote of the council, here is how we stand.

Term limits, Yes. 2 on, 1 off.

Six month terms, yes.

Off set elections, yes.

Pink robes, yet to be decided.

Given the new rules of the council, there will be a mayoral election in 2 weeks, and 3 of the councilers a month past that.

The election will follow the same standard layed out in Judge Gwens election, which is two people getting PMed (hopefully) the votes, and their tallies should match. THe election will go for a week, starting and ending at midnight on sunday. Personaly, I nominate my self for mayor, but I cant do that... :)

anything I missed?

Flabbicus
2006-10-28, 10:02 AM
Alright this is really annoying me.

Some of the things that I mentioned in the Definitive Out of Character Thread have seemingly been reinstated.


I have attempted to start two random fights but either people are too rapped up in sitting around and talking to do anything or think I am some new person. This is Rilik incase you were wondering. Prowl has indulged into the second plot and I applaud him for it but most of the other super-beings which we call denizens of this town never leave the tavern.

I don't want some upstart god to come in and use a deus ex machina to end a plot, but at least for them to acknowledge the fact that something's happening.

AmberVael
2006-10-28, 10:06 AM
If you are talking about that dragon, I ignored it because I thought it was a joke...

V: Oh. Hm. My bad.

Flabbicus
2006-10-28, 10:08 AM
Well... only partially.

Kenyon
2006-10-28, 10:20 AM
Well, it may all be in the way you present it. When Kenyon got kidnapped back before the transition, I half-expected everyone hanging out in the Streets to ignore the dozen some-odd thugs carrying a man-sized bag. But next thing I knew, I had 4 people all over them, saving the day.

I only had a half-chance to see the forums yesterday, but if I remember right, that whole random attack (at least the one I saw) was kinda sudden. I would suspect that the denizens here would be used to the whole "*pop*BLARGHBLARGHBLARGHIATTACKNOWZ" style, and see it as a joke, like Earin did, rather than an opportunity to get some action going.

Maybe try building it up a bit more. Or I'm completely reading this all wrong. It's happened before. :)

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-28, 10:21 AM
Hey! Death's back!

*hangs up his robe and dusts off the chair*

Thanks for letting me sit in on the party, guys.

Seren
2006-10-28, 10:28 AM
I was actually being kinda oblivious and didn't notice you posting about a dragon until a couple posts in, and by that point everyone else was ignoring it, so I assumed you were joking as well. Sorry. That's something I try really hard to never do.

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-10-30, 03:24 AM
Hey! Death's back!

*hangs up his robe and dusts off the chair*

Thanks for letting me sit in on the party, guys.

I think I may have to throw the ceremonial robes down for the time being.

*Death heads out back to lot a few more office supplies.*

I shall run for election in the next place, well technically I will glide.

*death gives a hallow laugh at his joke*

I am just a bit to distracted to do Councilwork. I leave my station in the capable hands of El Jaspero.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-10-30, 07:44 AM
*A slightly embarrassed Pirate King shuffles back in and resumes his seat*

Hehe, yeah. A smart guy would've checked with Death first.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-10-30, 04:40 PM
Dont worry El J. I dont think anyone has ever accused you of being one of those... :)

Flabbicus
2006-10-31, 04:46 PM
I would like to ask council permission for the summoning of a great power, referred to as a god by some and an abomination by others. It might not even show up but if it does I will need full god powers to show it's capabilities. I am of course referring to the tentacled monster that we all know and love (not Cthulhu).

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-10-31, 04:55 PM
Can you PM us some info on his plot, Rilik? Personally, I believe you are capable of handling this thing, but I don't even know what its from.

Kenyon
2006-10-31, 04:56 PM
I'm no councilmember, but I'm more than prepared to be touched by His Noodly Appendage.

Flabbicus
2006-10-31, 05:08 PM
Can you PM us some info on his plot, Rilik? Personally, I believe you are capable of handling this thing, but I don't even know what its from.


I'm no councilmember, but I'm more than prepared to be touched by His Noodly Appendage.

Kenyon hit the noodly appendage on the head, or tail.

His powers include; ability to turn people into pirates, can create beer volcanoes at will, etc.

Kenyon
2006-10-31, 05:12 PM
Don't forget the Stri-wait, that wouldn't be PG-13, would it...

Flabbicus
2006-10-31, 05:20 PM
Yeah, stripper factories are probably frowned upon.

Flabbicus
2006-11-01, 05:32 PM
Basically what I'm asking is if I can make a god come, set up a temple/pasta shop and start converting people.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-11-01, 06:42 PM
Basically what I'm asking is if I can make a god come, set up a temple/pasta shop and start converting people.

Well for starters, you can clearly only "convert" people that are willing. Even named NPCs from other players' threads are off-limit without their permission.

But to get to the heart of the matter: are you requesting permission to play a god?

Flabbicus
2006-11-01, 07:45 PM
I guess you could think of it like Inari at Fenric's temple, but it will randomly flow over the town. I doubt I will keep the FSM around for a long time.

And I will only convert nameless NPC's unless specifically told that I can do so to others. And by convert I mean turn them into a pirate.

Xerillum
2006-11-01, 09:53 PM
Xerillum runs into the town hall, covered in sweat and grime. he sets a leather sack down, and draws a design on the ground. Instantly, misty hands grab him and pull him under.

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2006-11-01, 11:30 PM
((Xerillum...you do realize this is an OOC thread, right?))


I guess you could think of it like Inari at Fenric's temple, but it will randomly flow over the town. I doubt I will keep the FSM around for a long time.

And I will only convert nameless NPC's unless specifically told that I can do so to others. And by convert I mean turn them into a pirate.

If the FSM's powers are only directed at nameless NPCs I can't see anything wrong with this. And who could possibly have a problem with more pirates, anyway?

AmberVael
2006-11-02, 12:27 AM
And who could possibly have a problem with more pirates, anyway?

I'm only going to do this once, so gloat over it as much as you can.
Darn you pirates, but:
I guess I can't disagree... (http://www.commissionedcomic.com/index.php?date=2006-10-07)

Flabbicus
2006-11-02, 05:17 PM
It has begun. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17801&page=3)

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-03, 12:23 AM
Seeing as elections and all that are coming up, I would like to create a political party. I of course would not be the head of this party and would be happy to stand by as treasurer but to create it I need to run it past people and get members.
This is actually something I would like to do in RL but probably won't as to create a new party I would need alot of funding which as a citizen coming from a slightly impoverished family (by that, I mean my parents don't get paid 'jack' for what they do, and it is quite a lot) I would not have. But anyway, to the idea!

The Realist Party
because we actually give a s#@*
(the motto is what I'd like it to be but possibly it is to offensive and "Dahm" or "Stuff" might be a better word to use. Obviously this motto is a kind of joke on real world politicians who obviously don't)

Goals
A centralist party that leans towards left-wing, to a point.
The major aim of this party is to give poor people more power and money, to a point, that one being that they actually have to do something for themselves.
(No dole bludgers)

The parties main purpose woud be as a law-creating force and writing up a propper constitution for the town which would e enforced by the police.
(Pretty much it would be an extension of the council with the main aim not being on character creation and new ideas, but on making the town a "safe place" RP wise.)

So what does anyone think of the idea?
It would work best if their were 2-3 other parties as well all led by people with conflicting ideas.
For RP reasons it would be best if the parties were all different and noone just created identical ones for the sake of creating their own.
It would also be good if people just outright created parties that lent towards evil aswell and people actually joined them.


More on the subject:
If everyone in the council joined different parties (or some could remain as individualists if they really wanted.) Then the party with the most council members could force forwards new and interesting laws, that could be promptly scrapped when the next majority comes in.
i.e. Someone could enforce a law so that everyone had to touch their noses as they entered a building, or else be fined.
THis would become really annoying so it would be likely that that party wouldn't get voted in again.

Having political parties would also put a bigger range of council members on the board as people could vote for certain people, even if they didn't necessarily like them personally, because thier party gave more "rights" to them.


Alternative:
An alternative would be for the council and politics to remain seperate and the council could deal with OOC things and the senate with IC things.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-03, 02:49 AM
Did I just read socilaist? :) jk

I dont know about political parties here, I think that is one of the big problems with...

No RL politics, right.

I guess that makes me an Individualist, right?

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-11-03, 02:51 AM
((We could have two houses, the upper and lower! Or something, sounds interesting, did P&L last year, it may work, but other's probably have a better opinion than my own :biggrin:))

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-03, 04:45 AM
First of all, we'd need two opporsite parties ran by willing members.
The face of each party should possibly be a council person, but not necissarily the chairman.
RL politics wouldn't be taken in and obviously you don't have to worry about the politic thing if you don't want to. It would just be advisable to support one, otherwise, the wrong clauses would get in. (or the alternative is to COMPLETELY ignor them ad thier effects on the town but thats ok.)

So I'd create the realist party and who would do the other(s)?

P.S. Socialism all the way.

InaVegt
2006-11-04, 05:32 AM
I love the Idea of a senate, the council would still deal with OOC stuf IMO and the mayor would function both as the head of the council and the head of state (think president), BTW can gez join the realist party?

Edit: if we're going to do this and add another layer of realism to the town I would say people need to vote for a constitution first, maybe the political parties can each come up with their own propositions for constitutions and there will be voted upon, a yes or no for every single one, if more is needed the political parties just think of more untill we have a complete constitution, then there will be voted for the first senate according to the constitution.

Oh and I'm going to create my own party

Edit2:
Democratic Party of Inari (DPI)
Inari is for the greater good of the people, not just her own flock.

Goals
The DPI inspires for the common good of all people, protecting the weak and making sure everyone has a decent life. They inspire for a safe town, even for nameless NPC's. Criminal should be convicted proportionally, small crimes will only get a fine but there will be a long (for the town) sentence on more serious crimes. They are based on a chaotic good philosophy and as such don't want too many laws, only the laws that are nessecary. Even though they're religious they strive for absolute freedom in religion. They also believe people should be able to be free from work and celebrate at their religious holidays, unless of course they work at a temple and are needed to help organize the event.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-04, 12:01 PM
You know, when we first started, I had opposed the thought of a town constitution, but as the town has grown, and more people and ideas come into play, I find that it might be useful. If we do it, I think that it should be as the town started, silly, but with depth. It would take a lot of work, but hey, hasnt the town? perhaps it is time to start getting everyone's veiws on it. I will start a new thread for this, and lets see where it takes us.

Alarra
2006-11-04, 12:36 PM
Let's make sure we keep things away from -real- politics and political parties, k thanks bye.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-04, 07:00 PM
Yes, we can't get into "real" politics, only politics that expressively effects the town.
i.e. No nuke debates, Water Crises debates or anything that reflects something happening in RL.

Xerillum
2006-11-05, 02:30 PM
I'm wondering if I could start a storyline? I would be about a terrorist that would blow up the watersupply stations if his demands are not met. the demands are for rule over all lands past the valley and a strip of water in front of the bay. Tell me what you think.

Renrik
2006-11-05, 02:38 PM
You know, of course, that the goblins already have a semi-socialist party, right?

The Goblin Labor Party

The Symbol is a green goblin hand on a red background. The hand is clenched around a sickle.

The Goblin Labor Party in the political offspring of the Goblin Worker's Union and the Goblin Statehood Army. It maintains the GSA as a militia and defense force, but has no currenty intentions f deploying it. It has some ties to the church of Maglubiet, but those ties are weak, due to the secular nature of the GLP.

The Goblin Labor Party's first goal is to ensure the economic and social well-being of all monstrous races (especially goblinoids). They beleive in spurring economic growth by using loans and other such methods, and campaign for civil treatment of all monstrous races.

The Goblin Labor Party beleives that all creatures are of equal potential, and that it is the duty of society to each individual to allow that potential to be realized, and the duty of each individual to society to use that potential for the good of their community.

The dominat faction within the party beleives in social reformation in the world abroad, but also actively campaigns towards a free state for the monstrous races. Currently, the most popular idea is to unify and rebuild the old goblinoid empire.

Flabbicus
2006-11-05, 02:40 PM
I'm wondering if I could start a storyline? I would be about a terrorist that would blow up the watersupply stations if his demands are not met. the demands are for rule over all lands past the valley and a strip of water in front of the bay. Tell me what you think.

You're supposed to ask before you plant the bomb you know.

AmberVael
2006-11-05, 02:46 PM
He knows, we already had this discussion.
And you might even be able to skip council permission and just ask Murky Pool, X.

Xerillum
2006-11-05, 02:49 PM
the bomb has been deactivated.

wxdruid
2006-11-05, 03:10 PM
personally I find it an interesting idea Xerillum and agree with Vael, that Murky Pool is the one to talk to first. :-)

Renegade Paladin
2006-11-05, 05:36 PM
Oh, I think it'd be fun. I also think the plan is doomed to failure, but since I'd be opposing it, that's part of the fun. :smallamused:

AmberVael
2006-11-05, 05:37 PM
Its in the town, of course it is doomed to failure. X probably knows that though.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-07, 03:30 PM
I've been seeing this stuff about there being "arena battles" at some stage.
If I wanted to fight Mortia, what would I have to do?

AmberVael
2006-11-07, 03:33 PM
Well first, you would have to get Mortia online to fight at sometime. :smalltongue:
Then you would have to work with me to get approved stats for your character. Don't worry, pretty much I'll tell you what special rules we use, and you make your character from there. Then I go over it and make sure everything was made correctly. ((And yes, everyone, I finally got entirely correct stats for Mortia))
Then you will have to wait in line. Currently I am waiting to battle Mortia in the arena as well.

Our arena battles are entirely 3.5 rules based. This is the only part of town that is not freeform.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-07, 04:21 PM
Don't worry about having a legal character.
I've got that.
Min-maxed yes... actually, its just all-round awsome.
Access to 9th level spells (wizard) ability to perform 20 attacks in one round, dex=34. Hide score=63...
I think I have all bases covered =P
Can I challenge other people?
i.e. you?

Alarra
2006-11-07, 04:22 PM
I am putting this here because I don't want to make an actual announcement of it and most everyone reads this. Now....lately things have been rather inflammatory. People are getting in arguments on nearly every thread about rules violations and the manner in which people are playing their characters and whether certain characters should or should not be allowed. This is going to stop now. If you have a problem with something a character is doing, either talk to one another civilly or contact a mod. Most likely me, as I'm the only mod who hangs out here. I've been lenient here and not issued you all warnings for flaming, but keep in mind that I will be in the future. *transforms back into cuddly pudding goddess* And have a nice day!

AmberVael
2006-11-07, 04:23 PM
@ Thri-Kreen_DK
Yes, and someone doing that is LONG overdue.
We have yet to have someone fighting a person other than Mortia.
But which of my characters do you want to fight? I have quite a few, you know.
And about your character- heh heh. Nice. Mortia has that too, ever since I stated him. Don't think you are the only one who can do that though.

@ Alarra
Meep!
*Runs and hides*