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Xefas
2010-11-22, 07:37 PM
Just some experimentation with homebrewing Heretical charms. Also taking requests. :smallbiggrin:

The City In My Soul

Abeyant Factory Soul Construction
Cost: 5m; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, Experimental Acceleration Mastery

The Principle of Hierarchy stores, within her, potentials and concepts so vast and complex that, to most, they would seem impossible. The Demon City has, since time immemorial, forged the impossible from the green inferno of his mighty heart. By combining the essence of both Yozi, an Infernal may create an automated assembly line of thought and energy within his own secondary soul.

By first committing the motes to this charm, the Infernal designates an Artifact of up to 3 dots to begin work upon in his soul factory. This functions under the normal Artifact crafting rules, except that the Infernal needs no materials to begin working, and the only charms that may modify the crafting process are Experimental Acceleration Mastery and either First Malfeas Excellency or First She Who Lives In Her Name Excellency (these Excellencies always apply). The motes devoted to an Excellency must be committed for the entire duration of the crafting or the crafting fails.

The Infernal need not put forth any physical effort to crafting the Artifact. The process is completely automated in his own tiny soul-world. Upon finishing the Artifact in this way, the Infernal's motes are uncommitted, and the Artifact lays dormant within him. To draw it forth, he need only direct a miscellaneous action towards a pile of raw materials of the appropriate type within (Essence) yards, and the materials congeal into the finished Artifact.

By keeping the idea of the Artifact in his soul, he may use the Repeat Business rules as normal (see Oadenol's Codex pg 29). An Infernal may only craft a single artifact in his soul factory at a time. His soul is the equivalent of a Master's Workshop.

A second purchase at Essence 5+ allows an Infernal to craft up to 4 dot artifacts in his soul, and his soul counts as a Flawless Workshop.

A third purchase at Essence 6+ allows an Infernal to craft up to 5 dot artifacts in his soul, and his soul counts as an Ideal Workshop.

Abattoir-Shrine Soul Construction
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Demonic Primacy of Essence, Sun-Heart Furnace Soul

It is the Endless Desert's nature to bind the weak to her will, and it is in the nature of the weak to worship her. To the Demon City, the dying howls and strewn gore of his victims are as the sweetest reverences and platitudes. By combining the essence of both Yozi, an Infernal may construct a house of torment within his own secondary soul and populate it with those he has damned.

When the Infernal deals the killing blow to a mortal, God-blood, or Exalt with an Essence less than their own, they may choose to draw in and trap the Hun of their soul in the Infernal's Abattoir-Shrine. The slain will, consequently, never rise as a ghost.

An Infernal who has just taken this charm has an Abattoir-Shrine large enough to hold 100 damned souls. For 2 additional experience points, they may increase the size to 1,000 souls. For 2 more experience points on top of that, they increase the size to 10,000 souls.

An Infernal with 5 damned souls is considered to have a Cult of 1, as they are fed by the torment of those they have trapped. 20 souls grant them a Cult of 2. 100 souls grant them a Cult of 3. 1,000 souls grant them a Cult of 4. 10,000 souls grant them a Cult of 5.

The motes respired by a Cult formed this way may recharge the reservoir granted by Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, but does not stack with the normal Cult background.

Spooky Aquarium Soul Construction
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, What Lurks Beneath

The Great Mother's womb is eternally swollen with all manner of unspeakable horrors, ready to be birthed upon an unwitting populace. The Demon City is a haven that harbors innumerable legions of demonic soldiers ready to march upon Creation and bring it to a bloody end. By combining the essence of both Yozi, an Infernal can become a mobile launching point for those monsters of the deep that wish harm upon the land but lack the necessary faculties to bring forth their wrath.

By committing the required motes, an Infernal may store a creature summoned via What Lurks Beneath in the spooky aquarium within his soul. At any point afterward, as a miscellaneous action, he may unleash the stored beast. As long as his motes remain committed, the beast may swim through the air as easily as it would water (as well as breathe it if it could not already), but may not willingly move farther than (Infernal's Essence + Willpower) yards from its master. If it is brought outside this range forcefully, the motes are uncommitted and it loses the benefits this charm grants it.

The Infernal may only commit motes to storing one monster at a time. However, with an additional purchase at Essence 4+, they may increase this number to three. A third purchase at Essence 5+ increases this number to (Essence). Additional monsters after the first only cost 1 committed mote.

Arterial Roadway Soul Construction
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Sun-Heart Furnace Soul, Running to Forever

The Silent Wind is graceful in her murderous whirlwinds; every movement an exquisite expression of her love - not calculated, but purposefully efficient by its very nature. The Demon City is an overwhelming force, though he abides no waste that he is not in control of. When he chooses to apply ten times as much power as is necessary, it is because he chooses, and not because he doesn't know his own strength. By combining the essence of both Yozi, an Infernal can refine the essence pathways that connect his Sun-Heart Furnace Soul to his Exaltation, and construct additional avenues for processing his expenditures more efficiently.

The essence pool granted by Sun-Heart Furnace Soul is no longer considered peripheral, but instead acts as personal motes, causing no essence-runoff to fuel an anima banner if the Infernal so chooses. However, when the Infernal chooses to exert energy into displaying his glory, he may do so all the more efficiently. He may choose to treat every one mote spent from his Sun-Heart Furnace Soul as three for the purposes of building his Anima Banner.
Brothers and Sisters in Arms

Glass Messiah Exoskeleton
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (x2), Temple Self Apotheosis

While Malfeas hides himself away in layer upon layer of thick armor, Cecelyne lays herself bare, that all may see her boundless glory. With these concepts merged, a prophet may armor himself in the righteous panoply of the fallen while refraining from denying his flock the privilege of reveling in his beauty.

The Infernal's armor is no longer brass, but clear glass that remains immaculately clean at all times (preventing penalties for filth or similar), allowing all to glimpse his naked body beneath it. While his anima banner flares at the 8+ mote level, the light of his essence refracts through the glass armor, shining brilliantly as a beacon visible for miles. As he shines, he adds his permanent Essence rating to his Appearance as those that glimpse him are overwhelmed with awe.

This charm does not stack with Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton or Obsidian Assassin Exoskeleton. One of these three charms must be chosen when Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is first activated, and that is the charm that takes effect until the Infernal reactivated Viridian Legend Exoskeleton and alters his decision.

Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (x2), Experimental Acceleration Mastery

Malfeas is always eager to bulldoze sections of his own city-body to make room for new improvements, utilizing his own form as a canvas for creation. The Principle of Hierarchy is her own perfect tool, practicing her universal art across venues both mundane and incomprehensible. Merged, an enterprising technician may use these concepts to use his own body to speed his work.

The Infernal's armor is no longer brass, but thick, frosted crystal in a swirling flame motif. In addition to the essence tools produced by Tool-Transcending Constructs, the Infernal may now morph his own armored limbs into exotic tools not found outside of the most glorious of first age factory cathedrals, increasing the speed benefit of Experimental Acceleration Mastery from (Essence) to (Essence x 3) while Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is active.

Incidentally, the Infernal may also transform his limbs into the equivalent of any perfect-quality mundane weapon or shield, though he is restricted to a maximum of one razor harness and either one two-handed weapon or two one-handed weapons at a time (a shield is considered a one-handed weapon for this).

This charm does not stack with Glass Messiah Exoskeleton or Obsidian Assassin Exoskeleton. One of these three charms must be chosen when Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is first activated, and that is the charm that takes effect until the Infernal reactivated Viridian Legend Exoskeleton and alters his decision.

Obsidian Assassin Exoskeleton
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Viridian Legend Exoskeleton (x2), Bloodless Murk Evasion

Malfeas lacks finesse - not that he does not understand it. He simply is too vastly powerful for the cardboard universe that he exists in. However, his faithful chum, the Ebon Dragon, is always there to provide him with helpful insights on subtlety, and even act as his hands in situation that require a more delicate touch.

The Infernal's armor is no longer brass, but a swirling mass of shadows more visible as an inverted blot in the concept of vision than as a distinct presence. While in an area with less than bright sunlight, the Infernal adds their Essence in dice to all Stealth rolls while Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is active.

Furthermore, the Infernal's body is much more malleable while he armors himself in shadow. While Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is active, the Infernal may use Bloodless Murk Evasion to move through space regardless of the intervening physical objects, allowing him to bypass walls and other obstacles. He may now use Bloodless Murk Evasion anytime he wishes, and not simply to dodge attacks.

This charm does not stack with Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton or Glass Messiah Exoskeleton. One of these three charms must be chosen when Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is first activated, and that is the charm that takes effect until the Infernal reactivated Viridian Legend Exoskeleton and alters his decision.

Silver Scepter of Ordained Martyrs
Cost: - (1m); Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical, Obvious
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Vitriolic Corona Endowment (x2), Verdant Emptiness Endowment

When an Infernal activates the second purchase of Vitriolic Corona Endowment, he may summon an ornate scepter of brilliant silver in lieu of the standard spear. This scepter uses the base statistics of a Goremaul instead of a Dire Lance, but is otherwise identical.

With a sweep of his scepter, the Infernal may reflexively spend one mote to activate one Demand he has imbued with Verdant Emptiness Endowment in every creature within (Essence x 10) yards. That Demand is expended, and they are given the task "Defend me at all costs". Those that refuse are inflicted as usual. Those that do not refuse are branded with the Old Realm symbol for "Martyr" in silver light upon their forehead.

Until the Demand's duration elapses, all health levels of damage that the Infernal takes are instead spread among her Martyrs, assuming they are within at least (Essence x 100 yards). If the Martyr is still alive at his Demand's conclusion, the silver brand fades. However, if a Martyr dies, the brand is seared inexorably into his flesh and bone, marking his corpse as a faithful servant to the Yozi.

Crystal Psycho-Amplification Implement
Cost: - (1m); Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical, Obvious
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Vitriolic Corona Endowment (x2), Mind-Hand Manipulation

When an Infernal activates the second purchase of Vitriolic Corona Endowment, he may instead summon a thin crystal staff that is either slightly flared at both ends, one of which dips into a bowl-shape with a sharpened edge, or has two needle-like prongs at one end (appearing as either a giant spoon or tuning fork). This implement uses the base statistics of a Wrackstaff instead of a Dire Lance, but is otherwise identical.

With their staff in hand, the Infernal finds it easier to focus and hone their mind into a weapon of deadly precision or overwhelming force. When they activate the Telekinetic Blow or Telekinetic Blade uses of Mind-Hand Manipulation, and only make a single attack, the base damage is doubled to (Essence x 2). If he makes multiple telekinetic attacks, two of those attacks do not contribute multiple action penalties (so a flurry of three telekinetic blows would confer no penalty).

The purposeful gestures that must be made with the amplifier make the fact that they are making telekinetic attacks Obvious, even while using Unseen Force Application. The DV penalty invoked by that charm is still applicable, as there are still no clear sensory tells of where and when an attack will land, but anyone who sees the Infernal will be able to tell they're the one attacking.

At Essence 5, if the Infernal also knows the Malfeas charm "Kissed By Hellish Noon", he may extend his staff's ability to inflict aggravated damage to Gods, and to innately use Green Sun Nimbus Flare, to his Mind-Hand Manipulation attacks while his staff is active.
Double Heresy!

Manufactorum Primordial Body
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 6; Type: Simple
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Abeyant Factory Soul Construction, Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton, Principle Invoking Onslaught

The Infernal's flesh and soul have been transfigured into tools of creation, and now it is time for this transformation to reach its logical conclusion.

With an explosion of essence, the Infernal's body undulates and morphs, growing crystalline protrusions that sink into the ground and lift him high into the air, where his limbs crack and expand into new architectural forms. Over the next minute, his body becomes a massive building of flesh, bone, brass, and crystal. After an hour has elapsed, the Infernal becomes active once again, as his insides have all been properly formed and configured.

While a building, the Infernal cannot dodge, though he may still parry by growing crystalline limbs that function as perfect mundane weapons. He has no movement or jump speed while a building, and he need not eat, drink, or breathe while in this form. Though, he must still "power down" as a form of sleep, if sleep was already necessary for him.

Inside the Infernal exists four sections, all but the first of which are optional, at the Infernal's discretion. The first section is a room with no doors or openings (unless the Infernal specifically wishes there to be) that houses the Infernal's heart and souls. Any damage done to his body elsewhere will simply create an opening in that section of his body. To actually deal damage to his health levels, one must cut their way into this room and stab his heart, which may not block or dodge, and has no soak or hardness. His soul, in this room, continues to function as Abeyant Factory Soul Construction, but instead of it requiring raw materials to manifest the artifact, the Infernal may simply pay 5 motes to materialize the finished artifact within himself.

The second is a set of living quarters with enough space and bunk-beds to comfortably fit 20 people, as well as functioning showers, and a fully stocked kitchen, refrigerator, and pantry with enough food to feed 20 people for (Essence) days, which the Infernal may restock by spending a single mote. If the Infernal does not spend at least a single mote per day maintaining his indoor plumbing, it ceases to work.

The third is a workshop section that functions as an ideal workshop for all forms of craft that the Infernal has rated 6 or higher. Here, the Infernal may use his crystal limbs to craft as if he were physically present, accepting help from aids or other benefits he could make use of were he physically present. By spending 5 motes, he may create all the materials he needs for any one artifact.

The fourth is a library that contains knowledge of all the Infernal's abilities, spells, and charms. By studying here, a person may consider themselves as having a mentor for the purposes of training times for abilities, spells, or charms the Infernal knows, without the Infernal having to take the time to train them himself. In addition, if the Infernal has at least one purchase of Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi), the library is also stocked with all manner of occult paraphernalia. The Resource cost of conducting Thaumaturgy within such a library is 0, as the user simply accesses the myriad charts, mystical diagrams, and magical caches held within.

An intercom system allows the Infernal to transmit his voice into any room within himself, or over a loud-speaker to project his voice outside. Other people may also use this intercom to communicate into other rooms or into the outside.

By spending a single mote to calibrate himself, the Infernal may alter the temperature in his body anywhere from 40 degrees to 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Any higher or lower, and he risks damaging the delicate instruments that compose his Abeyant Factory, Workshop, or Library areas. The temperature will stay this way until he spends additional motes.

Light fixtures in a color of the Infernal's choice illuminate his insides. At his discretion, he may grow light dials for occupants to control the brightness or dimness of them independently.

Doors from the outside and to each section of the Infernal's body are chosen when the Infernal first activates this charm. He may choose to supply them with some independent mechanism for the occupants to open and close them on their own, or he may leave any or all of them at his function alone, possibly converting an area into a prison or vault.

When the Infernal releases the committed motes, it takes a full hour for his body to properly reconfigure back into human form. He may reduce this time, but doing so inflicts one level of unsoakable aggravated damage per 10 minutes the time is sped up, as his flesh is transfigured incorrectly.

With a second purchase of this charm, an Infernal may tap into a demesne under his manufactorum, causing his heart room to double as a hearthstone room. While tapped into the demesne, his heart will grow an appropriately aspected hearthstone. The Infernal may choose to attune any occupants inside of him to his hearthstone, and may break such an attunement at any time, regardless of distance. When this charm ends, the hearthstone dissolves.

If an Infernal stays tapped into a demesne for one month per dot of the demesne, he may corrupt it into a Vitriol Aspect, or an aspect fitting either his caste or favored Yozi (if he has Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger, he may make Him-Aspected demesnes). The hearthstone produced spontaneously morphs into a hearthstone of the new aspect.

Reproduction Construction Compunction
Cost: 1m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Simple
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: One Gestation Period
Prerequisite Charms: Abeyant Factory Soul Construction, Spiteful Sea Tincture

The Infernal produces a single tentacle from his body and strikes a mundane object that he could craft with his crafting abilities and would not be considered large enough to be a "larger work" (i.e. one in which Dexterity does not come into play). By Malfeas' command, the Small God of the object awakens and obeys. By Kimbery's blessing, the Small God is formed into a metaphysical womb. And by She Who Lives In Her Name's dominion, it is instilled with the materials and processes it will need in the coming period.

The bestowed object's god-womb functions exactly as a tiny replica of the Infernal's Abeyant Factory Soul Construction (using the Infernal's craft rolls as normal). Completely independent of his actions, it will continue to craft an exact replica of the Small God and the associated object within itself. When the crafting (gestation) period is over, the object gives birth to its perfect copy in an act with a visual accompaniment indescribable by any mortal tongue spoken in Creation (unlike Abeyant Factory Soul Construction, no materials are required to manifest the objects upon their completion - these are incorporated into the womb when the charm is activated). There simply aren't the words. Some of the oldest dialects of Old Realm, such as the Lintha derivation, come exceedingly close.

Once the object has given birth once, this charm ends, and its god-womb reverts back into an insensate Small God, though it may be subsequently impregnated again. The duration of this charm specifically refers to the time between this charm's activation and when the object gives birth. The "gestation period" will be different depending on the Infernal's craft rolls.

If an Infernal releases the committed motes before the construction is finished, the womb reverts back to a Small God without harm, banishing the aborted proto-object permanently to Elsewhere.

Contemptuous Theogenetic Reconstitution
Cost: 30m, 2wp; Mins: Essence 5; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Heretical, Sorcerous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Wayward Divinity Oversight, Wholeness Rightly Assumed, Inner Devils Unchained

Since time before time, the Gods have been the humble servants of their Primordial masters. Therefore, they must truly be pitied, for their primary purpose for existence has been subverted by some flaw in the Primordials' own design; unthinkable as it may be. However, their traitorous malfunction is only a single rusted cog in an otherwise salvageable machine - with a little work, they may be made to function properly once more.

This charm may be used to recreate a dead god from a pile of starmetal. This is not a form of resurrection; that would be against the laws of Creation, and thus anathema to Cecelyne and She Who Lives In Her Name. The creature that is pulled forth is not the dead god, but rather tattered remains sewn together with shadows and hatred in a marionette mockery of the dead god. It retains all the memories of its life, though they are hazy and always far more grim and disturbing than the true account. Parts of its personality remain, though its Motivation becomes twisted with elements of the Infernal's Urge (for example, an Infernal with the Malfean Urge "Slay the Unconquered Sun" animating a God with the Motivation "Protect the North from the threat of the Fair Folk" might alter it into "Protect the North from the threat of the Unconquered Sun" and its memories would reflect a dire need to slay the Unconquered Sun, as he is clearly the largest threat to the Northern Direction), and it gains an unbreakable intimacy for obeying the will of the fallen Primordials, who it instinctively recognizes as its unquestionable masters. The vast majority of risen gods have no other positive intimacies, as they spill out of their roughly hewn and desecrated spirit-bodies.

The statistics of the god after it has been raised is determined by the size of the chunk of starmetal from which it is created. If only a portion of the whole of the remains of the god is used, the restrictions still apply, as the piece brought to life is simply that - an incomplete fragment. Using starmetal in this way consumes it utterly. Note that only raw starmetal may be used, as after it is refined and constructed into an artifact, too much of the structural integrity is compromised to pull a functioning god out of it.

A chunk of starmetal worth only Resources 1 can create only Essence 1 gods. This progression is linear up to a piece of starmetal worth Resources 5 creating an Essence 5 god. Afterwards, the increase is more dramatic. Two Resource 5 pieces create an Essence 6 God, Four Resource 5 pieces create an Essence 7 God, Eight for Essence 8, Sixteen for Essence 9, and Thirty-Two Resource 5 pieces for creating an Essence 10 simulacrum of a fallen Incarna. Multiple pieces from different gods may not be used - they must all come from the same god. An Infernal cannot raise a god with a higher Essence rating than their own.

Gods being generated without pre-existing statistics should use the Roll of Glorious Divinities Vol 1 description of Divine Mechanics as a guideline for creating their stats. Charm sets will remain mostly intact, though the specific conditions under which a charm may be used may take a particularly sinister turn (a God that may use Sheathing the Material Form only while immersed in water, that is then raised, might have this condition changed to only while in complete darkness).

The same can be said of the lesser fragments of greater deities. Using their full statistics, they can be scaled down, removing dots or charms ancillary to their primary purpose, while keeping as much of their core (twisted) being intact.

It should be noted that "artificially" created starmetal, such as from Principle Invoking Onslaught or Constructive Convergence of Principles, is not suitable for the creation of a god. In the same way that synthetically grown human flesh in the vague shape of a human is not a human, dead god-flesh molded from the universe that has never known true divinity is not a god.

Additionally, this charm holds no sway over starmetal produced from non-Creation-born gods. The gods of Autochthonia, the hypothetical living worlds of heretical Infernals, or possible alternate worlds hidden in the depths of the Wyld are beyond it's capacity to manipulate.
Kung Fu Demons

Vassal-Enlightening Malediction
Cost: 15m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple (Dramatic Action)
Keywords: Heretical, Enlightenment, Obvious, Touch
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Two of: Tarnish Flash Technique, Verdant Emptiness Endowment, Lease the Flame, Tragic Love Amusement, Inner Devils Unchained, Great Mother's Tears

This is the Infernal version of Soul-Enlightening Beneficence (see pg 18 of Scroll of the Monk). It functions exactly as that charm, except that the newly enlightened mortal does not lose a point of permanent willpower. Instead, they permanently become a Creature of Darkness and native of Malfeas.

An Infernal may purchase this charm a second time at Essence 6+ if they already know Sowing the Emerald Lotus. Once they do so, they may use this charm on Terrestrial Exalted, with the same procedure as usual, inflicting 'Creature of Darkness' status on the Terrestrial in the process. However, in lieu of the normal benefits, the Terrestrial's limitations in climbing the Lotus are instantly blasted apart, granting him the ability to learn and use Celestial Martial Arts. The lingering effects are, however, very different from those of the Immaculate procedure.

Because the Terrestrial gained enlightened via brute force instead of discipline and finesse, he does not need to make a (Dexterity + Martial Arts) roll to enter a Form Charm. Instead, the poisoned Essence that freed him from his bonds boils forth when he enters a Celestial Form Charm, wreathing him in blatantly Malfean-green flames that constantly flicker into Old Realm characters proclaiming terrible blasphemies. Should he produce an Anima Banner in this state, it is a bright green very similar to the animas of the Green Sun Princes. Once he is no longer in a Celestial Form Charm, the flames take around 2 minutes to completely disintegrate, and his anima remains green until it has completely receded.

In addition, a Terrestrial enlightened this way is considered of the "wrong" element for all elementally-aligned Celestial Martial Arts, paying the surcharge for using their charms as normal, and they may never align their element with such styles (even with mastery of the chosen style). However, they are especially compatible with Infernal Monster Style, and any other styles developed by demons or Infernals (such as Black Claw style), and reduce the cost of all charms belonging to those styles by 1m while in the corresponding Form Charm for them.
The Mad Sun

Shadow Remembers the Sun
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: -
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Fond Remembrance of Adrián, and one of (Purity of Madness Defense, Triumph of the Will, Scouring Banishment Technique, Ego-Infused Pattern Primacy, Will-Crushing Force, Nemesis Self Imagined Anew, or Sea Dissolves Herself)

Among the fallen Yozi, Malfeas, Adorjan, and Szoreny number among those that have felt the humiliation of having their form torn asunder and reconfigured wholly and completely. While Szoreny stands as a shattered reflection of his former self, and Malfeas weeps in pity and shame, Adorjan is unique in that she has embraced her new form. Not only that, but she can remember her former self with gleeful nostalgia, and within this behavior, she may draw strength from that long-dead Primordial.

Infernals have been mutilated in much the same way, and coupling the principle of Adorjan's remembrance with a force powerful enough to peel away the layers of Yozi influence upon their Exaltation may afford them some small echoes of their past selves.

By taking this charm, the Infernal gains the Past Life background at 1 dot or, if they already possessed the Past Life background, their rating in the background increases by 1 dot. The simple act of possessing this charm also allows an Infernal to reach "Legendary" Past Life status, by having an effective Past Life rating of 6.

If, even with this boost, an Infernal has less than an effective 6 in their Past Life background, they feel an instinctive pull towards things of consequence to their ancient persona. Examples might include their Lunar Mate, a daiklaive buried in a First Age tomb, or the place in Creation where their past self was finally chased down and butchered by agents of the Usurpation. These errands should be non-trivial, but not necessarily an epic quest in and of themselves. Successfully fulfilling one of these conditions raises the Infernal's Past Life rating by 1 at no cost.

Hungry Devil-Tiger Technique
Cost: 1m; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Heretical, Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Shadow Remembers the Sun

An Infernal must have a Legendary Past Life rating to purchase this charm. This charm may only be used to supplement a Melee attack that is also augmented by a use of the Infernal's Past Life background.

The Infernal's weapon blazes with flames the color of molten gold as his fury and madness becomes transparent with the malice that has boiled for millennia in the memories of a warrior betrayed by his most trusted advisers and confidants. He instantly gains a point of Limit from the strain on his Exaltation. If he modifies the roll with a use of a First [Yozi] Excellency, he gains an additional point of Limit from mixing the fundamental concepts of those murdered with the power of the murderer, which inflicts additional strain. If he also possesses a [Yozi] Mythos Exultant and has stunted this roll, he gains an additional point of Limit from forcibly crashing through the legend imprinted upon his Exaltation with the legend of memories long sealed into its depths. If the Infernal would suffer Torment from these increases, he instead postpones the Torment until the beginning of his next action.

The Infernal multiplies additional successes on their attack roll by the amount of Limit they currently possess for the purposes of calculating additional raw damage.

Heart-Impelling Method
Cost: 6m; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Heretical, Combo-OK, Emotion, Social, Obvious
Duration: One Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Shadow Remembers the Sun

An Infernal must have a Legendary Past Life rating to purchase this charm. This charm may only be used to supplement a Performance roll to address an audience that is also augmented by a use of the Infernal's Past Life background.

The Infernal's mouth and eyes explode with arcs of golden lightning that begin to snake around their form as their caged Solar persona reaches outward in a desperate effort to feel something; anything but the cold darkness of the Jade Prison or the stifling morass of their postmortem imprisonment.

They choose an emotion to inspire in the audience, and individuals subject to the performance that have an MDV lower than the threshold successes on the performance roll are afflicted with that emotion for a scene; perhaps too well. As the ambient Solar Essence overwhelms them, the audience loses their ability to regulate their emotions as their minds go haywire.

If the Infernal chose an emotion such as "Sadness", the audience is inflicted with crippling depression identical to the Heart of Tears limit break. Feelings such as "Happiness" spiral those effected into fits of psychotic self-destructive hedonism like that inflicted by the Overindulgence limit break. "Anger" might result in Berserk Anger as the victims can barely restrain their rage and frustration. If a chosen emotion doesn't fall into one of these categories, they should be used as a guideline. This effect is Unnatural Mental Influence and requires two Willpower to resist.

If the Infernal's Past Life did not take hold of him as a result of this Performance roll, he too is automatically inflicted with the chosen over-emotional state. He is not allowed to pay the two Willpower cost to resist, but he may instead choose to gain three Limit by voluntarily straining his Exaltation to contain the emotions bleeding out from it.
Cosmic Losers

Cast-From-Heaven Epiphany
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 3; Type: -
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Victory in Defeat, By Pain Reforged

In perfect health, a Primordial is immutable. It can neither learn nor change, no matter how much it would wish to do so. It is only in defeat, beaten and scarred from the callous brutality of their trusted subordinates, that the Primordials were able to accept new lessons. The Yozi are defined more by their pitiful defeat than by any victory.

Every time the Infernal "loses" to another Exalt - defined as any instance of being forced to retreat due to overwhelming physical injury, failing at social combat in a way that would qualify for activating Victory in Defeat (though the purposefulness of activating Victory in Defeat obviates also using this charm on that instance of defeat), having a Background eliminated (such as a Manse being destroyed, or a Cult eradicated), a Motivation or Urge rendered impossible, or some appropriate long-term goal thwarted at great expense to the Infernal - they are effected in some small way depending on the Exalt's type. If multiple Exalts collaborated in defeating the Infernal, the one most responsible is the one used by this charm. While the Infernal need not even know what an Exalt is, much less which kinds exist, he must still have knowledge linking the Exalt to his defeat in the case of non-obvious losses (such as an Exalt anonymously wiping out a Cult), and have some idea that their enemy is a supernatural being that bears some difference from regular gods and demons.

Losing to a Solar inspires bitterness. The Infernal instantly learns of the Solar's highest virtue, and may choose to convert a dot of their own corresponding virtue into experience. If the Solar has multiple virtues tied for highest, then the one most associated with the defeat of the Infernal is used. If the Infernal lowers his primary virtue below 3, it is still considered to be 3 for all purposes concerning limit and torment. This may not lower a virtue below 1.

The more heroic the hero, the more horrible the world has to be to oppose him.

Losing to an Abyssal inspires fear. The next charm the Infernal learns that either directly aids a Crafting action, or directly improves the Infernal's defenses (typically something that increases Soak, improved DVs, or provides a Perfect Defense or Shaping Defense) has its training time reduced to a single hour, as the Infernal's primal fear drives it to stave off Oblivion and the Death Essence that is so antithetical to his power.

Losing to a Terrestrial or Alchemical inspires hatred. The next charm the Infernal learns that increasing the damage he deals, directly destroys something, or spreads pestilence and despair (such as charms that cause Green Sun Wasting, or charms that provide direct mental anguish like Golden Years Tarnished Black) has its training time reduced to a single hour, as the Infernal rages against such weak and pathetic foes that dare to oppose his glory. An Infernal who knows of such things may also speculate that the enmity the Yozi feel towards Gaia and Autochthon, the greatest of betrayers, may also add an extra dimension to this effect.

Losing to a Sidereal inspires defiance and paranoia. The next time he sleeps after his moment of defeat, he may unconsciously cast off one instance of unnatural mental influence effecting him that was placed there by a Sidereal. With a flash of insight, he awakes in a cold sweat with hateful knowledge of what has been done to him.

Losing to a Lunar inspires frustration. The Infernal howls in impotence at the Wyld-tainted chaos beast that has foiled his plans. Truly, the Infernal must be inadequate - the disciples of Luna are flexible, ever changing, and the Infernal must be so as well to triumph. Thus, he may choose to immediately convert one dot of an ability or attribute into experience points, casting off the dead weight that used to define him, in order to forge forward into a new form and power.

Losing to an Infernal, whether Green Sun Prince or Akuma, does nothing. Just as the Yozi may thrash against each other, much in the same way the Primordials of old did, they may do nothing to change their brothers and sisters.

umbrapolaris
2010-11-22, 09:37 PM
hi, can you tell me what is Exalted, i never heard of it

Vaynor
2010-11-22, 10:10 PM
EDIT: Whoops, I meant to put this in the homebrew section. :smallredface:

The Red Towel: Sure thing. Moved to Homebrew.

Xefas
2010-11-22, 10:31 PM
The Red Towel: Sure thing. Moved to Homebrew.

Thank you for the move. :smallsmile:

In celebration, I added a fourth charm.


hi, can you tell me what is Exalted, i never heard of it

I'm probably not the best person to ask. The Exalted wiki entry (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Exalted_%28game%29) will probably do a better job.

Primal Fury
2010-11-22, 11:44 PM
Oh! I love Heretical charms!

The City In My Soul: So you're basically a walking assembly line. Cool, cool.

Abattoir-Shrine Soul Construction: I like this effect, but I'm not sure about the prerequisites. This feels very... Ebon Dragon-y to me (a la Life Denying Hate & power from suffering). Could you explain your reasoning behind it?

Spooky Aquarium Soul Construction: I really like this one, the wait time imposed by What Lurks Beneath is a serious pain, and this is a pretty cool way around that (though the name does sound a bit silly, given the source of the themes :smalltongue:)

Inneverating Windmill Soul Construction: I... don't like this one. It basically says "You don't have Running to Forever anymore". Now, I like the idea of a charm that let's you mix and match ways to fill your various peripheral mote pools, but not one that says "this is just a normal mote pool now". Effects like that... dilute Infernal themes.

Xefas
2010-11-23, 12:08 AM
Oh! I love Heretical charms!

The City In My Soul: So you're basically a walking assembly line. Cool, cool.
Actually "The City In My Soul" was just a title of sorts to show that the below charms had a common theme. That charm's name is Abeyant Factory Soul Construction.


Abattoir-Shrine Soul Construction: I like this effect, but I'm not sure about the prerequisites. This feels very... Ebon Dragon-y to me (a la Life Denying Hate & power from suffering). Could you explain your reasoning behind it?

Well, I actually made this charm for someone playing in a game I'm running. They basically said "I'm a Slayer and I want to gain power by harvesting souls" so I ran with that.

But, in addition to that, I'd already been toying around with some way to do Cecelyne-ish stuff without the sprawling cult. Some hypothetical characters fit with some of the themes of Cecelyne (dominance, wish-granting, respiring essence real fast) without fitting others (being known by hundreds of thousands of worshipers world-wide). To characters like that, the big cult is just cumbersome and seems tacked on. Before Broken Winged Crane came out, I'd have said "Tough luck, you don't dictate the theme of Cecelyn's charms. You take the charms from Cecelyne. She's the one in control. She dictates the themes". But, with Heretical charms, you're allowed to mix-and-match-and-mutilate themes together, so I figured, why not?


Spooky Aquarium Soul Construction: I really like this one, the wait time imposed by What Lurks Beneath is a serious pain, and this is a pretty cool way around that (though the name does sound a bit silly, given the source of the themes :smalltongue:)

Glad you like it. I admit the name is a bit silly, but after wracking my brain for SAT words (and taking more than one trip to Thesaurus.com) to name the first two, I said "Screw it. Spooky Aquarium. Infernals designed these charms, and hypothetically there's at least one Infernal out there with a sense of humor."


Inneverating Windmill Soul Construction: I... don't like this one. It basically says "You don't have Running to Forever anymore". Now, I like the idea of a charm that let's you mix and match ways to fill your various peripheral mote pools, but not one that says "this is just a normal mote pool now". Effects like that... dilute Infernal themes.

I agree that it's kind of...rough. I knew I wanted to do one for all the Yozi (with revealed charm trees anyway), and so my mind started connecting Yozi to buildings. Cecelyne is a shrine. SWILHN is a factory. Kimbery is an aquarium. Ebon Dragon is a night club (I haven't finished his yet).

But I couldn't place Adorjan with a building. He just seems so...antithetical to being in one solid place. So, I figured windmill was my best bet. And what do windmills do? Power things. Eh...it was kind of an afterthought.

Can you think of a way for me to improve it while keeping the "City In My Soul" motif?

umbrapolaris
2010-11-23, 12:44 AM
I'm probably not the best person to ask. The Exalted wiki entry (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Exalted_%28game%29) will probably do a better job.

thx, i see it is not a D20 system, it is why i was lost with it ^^

InfiniteNothing
2010-11-23, 08:17 PM
Hmm... I wouldn't mind seeing more of these, along with more of the Yozi-redeeming charms.

Primal Fury
2010-11-23, 10:01 PM
Can you think of a way for me to improve it while keeping the "City In My Soul" motif?
Some themes just don't mesh. You can't really stick Adorjan in a building, though you might be able to do something with transportation. Like... roads or something.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-13, 04:30 PM
I think Adorjan's charm might work well as roads. Remember, she does have a soul who makes roads for her to run along.

Of course, I love the image of a miniature infernal running in a hamster wheel somewhere inside. :smallamused:

EDIT: You could call it 'Endless Self-Roads Discovery', for example. You don't have to, of course, that just an example.

Xefas
2010-12-14, 05:06 AM
Alright, I altered Adorjan into roads. And I added a new section with three new armor-themed charms. That section will also be where my Vitriolic Corona Endowment charms go.

Now you'll be able to instantly tell which Yozi's team a particular Slayer is playing for. My inspiration was Chaos Chosen/Chaos Space Marines. They all have big, bulky armor - which makes them impossibly to distinguish as individuals, but you can tell which Chaos God they subscribe to by their detail work. Some eyes and ravens here and there, and you know they're Tzeentch - a few tentacled genitalia and it's clear it's a Slaanesh dude.

Zarthrax
2010-12-14, 11:18 AM
I enjoy the charms very much, Xefas.

Question: Are you going to expand the armor ones to all the other Yozis? I like them a lot.

Primal Fury
2010-12-14, 12:41 PM
I love the Brother and Sisters in Arms charms. Each one enhances the purview of the Yozi it builds off of: Divine beauty for Cecelyne, reality construction for the Whispering Flame, and stealth for the Ebon Dragon. I'd love to see one for Kimbery as well.

EDIT: Though... Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton could use a bit of a buff. The part about forming weapons of average quality doesn't feel right. They are forged from the same crystal to composes the Principle of Hierarchy, how could they be anything less than perfect?

InfiniteNothing
2010-12-14, 01:01 PM
Dude, fix the last paragraphs of the Crystal Engineer and Obsidian Assassin Exoskeletons. Right now they each say that they can't be used with themselves.

Primal Fury
2010-12-14, 01:41 PM
And one other thing. Obsidian Assassin Exoskeleton. I'd add a clause that said they no longer needed to be attacked to make use of Bloodless Murk Evasion, allowing them to slither from shadow to shadow with complete freedom.

Xefas
2010-12-14, 06:47 PM
Alright, I think I fixed/changed everything you guys mentioned. And I added the Kimbery Exoskeleton. Once again, I'm still having trouble with Adorjan. I think she might be my least favorite Yozi. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: I've also added a new Double Heresy! charm. Double Heresy, of course, meaning either I'm mixing two heretical charms, or I'm committing double heresy by mixing three Yozi. I haven't actually figured out a way to satisfactorily mix three Yozi, but I'm working on it.

Primal Fury
2010-12-14, 06:50 PM
Your Kimbery charm... needs a bit of work. Rather than deciding at the moment of the attack (which actually sounds like Adorjan), it's best to key off of existing intimacies, that whole Beloved/Reviled dichotomy. Of course... if she loves you, and you're attacking her, that's enough to make her hate you right off the bat. And why does killing the child that she made for you, and with you, make her love you?

EDIT: Having your beloved attack you can be a traumatic experience. You might try to show them the error of their ways by showing them the child you could have together. If they kill that child, they've proven themselves worthy of your fathomless hate, and they become reviled. Now I need to think a little bit, but how this functions against Reviled characters should be incredibly nasty. If you break the Great Mother's heart, she will make you pay in ways that'd make the Ebon Dragon go "Damn. That's messed up". That's hyperbole mind you (:smalltongue:), but that's the feel Kimbery gives off.

Primal Fury
2010-12-14, 07:02 PM
And your double heresy charm is... weird. That's all I can say.

And why does it require PIO?

aetherialDawn
2010-12-14, 09:28 PM
The double-heresy is... interesting.

It seems a little too much like an Alchemical charm, in a way, although I can see how it is a Yozi charm as well. I suppose that I would prefer to see it as a sort of sanctum charm - but, being Primordial, more real and less protean and harder to make than the Lunar sanctum charms. Transforming into a building seems to make the character too bound, which is not a very Yozi thing; even their world jouten move when they want them to, they aren't bound up in a building. It also fits nicely with Abeyant Factory Soul Construction. If you use my suggestion for sanctum-style, it might be a good idea to note that it can be included in The Spirit of the Living World, but that if it is done so then it is separate from the sanctum that can be open to Creation.

Abeyant Factory Soul Construction is obviously a good choice for one-half of this; Crystal Engineer Exoskeleton also seems good. I'm not sure what the third charm should be, since I can't think of an Infernal charm that makes a space for you. I shall search.

EDIT: Actually, She Who Lives in Her Name A) LIVES IN HER NAME B) Moves without crossing the intervening space. I can totally see her having a charm which warps space in the proper way; most of her charms provide space-warping as the standard VISUAL effect, if not the actual effect.

Thus, Constructive Convergence of Principles seems entirely appropriate as a requirement. Yes?

Overall, I think it can stay as it is, but the charm doesn't seem needed, and Constructive Convergence of Principles would seem to be a better third prerequisite.


Oh, and the Kimbery Exoskeleton.
The Kimbery Exoskeleton.
The Kimbery Exoskeleton is a terrible, horrible thing that is everything Kimbery is. It is a wonderful Heresy charm and I'm going to be staying as far away from it as I have been from Kimbery. So, good.

Xefas
2010-12-15, 01:26 AM
It is a wonderful Heresy charm and I'm going to be staying as far away from it as I have been from Kimbery. So, good.

Your Kimbery charm... needs a bit of work.
It seems that the two of you must now fight to the death to prove which one of you is right.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/bluejanus/ChooseYourWeapon.jpg

And as for turning into a building. One, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but Malfeas is a City. A City made of buildings. Buildings that he is. His Demon City jouten is no more capable of traversing his landscape than the building produced by this Heretical charm. Sure, he can move individual limbs/buildings/organs, but the Infernal-Building can do that as well.

Not to mention that somewhere in his charm tree, as yet unwritten by White Wolf, there is a non-heretical charm that probably reads something like:

I Am a Building Prana
Effect: You are now a building.
With a second purchase of this charm, you are now a neighborhood.
With a third purchase of this charm, you are a hamlet.
With a fourth purchase, you are a burg.
With a fifth purchase, you are now a town.
With a sixth purchase, you are now a city.

Two, I realize that She Who Lives In Her Name is not particularly immobile, but this is a heretical charm, so it can cover up some of her principles with some of Malfeas' principles, I think. Perhaps additional charms branching off of this could turn you into a floating sky-fortress manse-workshop thing. Which would be pretty awesome. (Theoretical Essence 10 Charm: You are now Macross.)

Just as an aside with some personal information about me, I love the idea of playing sentient buildings, sentient weapons/armor/magic items in general, or sentient geographical locations. It's a thing I've always wanted to do, but never been able to. Ever since I was ~11 and read my first RPG books (the 2nd edition D&D core books). I was like "Wait, there are sentient magic items? Like, you could play as a talking sword that shoots lightning bolts and your teammates could stab people with you? That's awesome!" but turns out, no. No, that is never a character you can play. In any RPG. Ever.

EDIT:

And why does it require PIO?
It's for all the matter-creation the building does, like creating food and crafting materials.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-15, 02:48 AM
Yeeeees. I wasn't thinking of building-as-Malfeas expression - Actually, one moment.

HOW did I manage that? Malfeas is actually named "THE DEMON CITY."
I have that down on a character sheet! I was editing those charms yesterday!

Back to actual things. It fits him. I just naturally gravitate to Swirly over Malfeas, I suppose. In this case, I have a different concern: It's not building ENOUGH! Actually, this is true: Given that you can transform demenses, what I would prefer to see here is a charm that turns you into a Manse, combining one of the Broken-Winged Crane Swirly manse-control charms and some Malfeas goodies to go from 'I am now possessing this manse with my magic hacking skills!' to 'I am now this manse with my magic architecture body!'

Also, of course, you could power yourself with a Demense or with normal respiration. Does this sound like a good idea?

*I surrender the Kimbery charm. Anything that reduces the number of Kimbery charms is generally a good thing. The only charmset I have more of a natural aversion to because of the Yozi behind it is probably The Ebon Dragon and in both cases it is because the charms come with price tags that just scream 'this is not a power, this is you transforming into a broken demon not under your own control' - I suspect because each of those Yozis has an incredibly controlling aspect to them.
Whereas, you know, Adorjan lets you do what you want. Freedom!
Swirly would crush your mind, if she would only admit it existed. It's almost cute in a kind of pity-terror way.

Xefas
2010-12-15, 03:23 AM
Given that you can transform demenses, what I would prefer to see here is a charm that turns you into a Manse, combining one of the Broken-Winged Crane Swirly manse-control charms and some Malfeas goodies to go from 'I am now possessing this manse with my magic hacking skills!' to 'I am now this manse with my magic architecture body!'
I'm right with you on this. Someday soon.


I surrender the Kimbery charm.
Ah, okay. It's gone now. I might replace it later. But, for now, you don't get off the hook! Kimbery never lets you off the hook. Gaze in bewilderment at my first triple-Yozi charm, and despair.

Primal Fury
2010-12-15, 10:17 AM
Reproduction Construction Compunction... There's nothing I don't like about this charm. It's trivial to come up with upgrades that allow you to use it on artifacts, and with Prian Mythos Exultant, you can stunt back all that willpower you use, and outfit an entire mortal army with perfect weapons and armor.

Good job. :smallwink:

EDIT: Oh! But you might want to clarify just how long a gestation period is. Humans have theirs, but so do Dragon Kings, demons, and gods.

Xefas
2010-12-15, 01:40 PM
Reproduction Construction Compunction... There's nothing I don't like about this charm. It's trivial to come up with upgrades that allow you to use it on artifacts, and with Prian Mythos Exultant, you can stunt back all that willpower you use, and outfit an entire mortal army with perfect weapons and armor.

Good job. :smallwink:

EDIT: Oh! But you might want to clarify just how long a gestation period is. Humans have theirs, but so do Dragon Kings, demons, and gods.

Mkay, I clarified what the duration means a bit.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-15, 03:21 PM
Might want to make it clearer that it uses the character's craft rolls in some fashion, as well.

Mostly because object-gods, while they maintain objects, are not well known for their ability to forge and such.

Xefas
2010-12-15, 03:28 PM
Might want to make it clearer that it uses the character's craft rolls in some fashion, as well.

Mostly because object-gods, while they maintain objects, are not well known for their ability to forge and such.

Alright, I added a line of clarification for that as well. Also, my first Vitriolic Corona Endowment based charm. Now you can have a Yozi-themed weapon to go with your Yozi-themed armor. :smallbiggrin:

aetherialDawn
2010-12-15, 04:40 PM
Whoah. I think that's a little more powerful than the normal punishment for refusing a Demand, isn't it? I think it needs to be limited in the same way as other demands. (Perhaps the number of health levels which can be transferred in this way?)

Primal Fury
2010-12-15, 07:15 PM
It also feels like those exoskeleton charms should interact with Demon Emperor Shintai in some way, but there's that whole thing about Shintais needing to be conceptually pure, so I'm not sure if that'd work out.

And I like Silver Scepter of Ordained Martyrs. It's very Cecelyian.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-15, 08:02 PM
I think you mean Devil Tyrant Shintai, the one that transforms you, not Demon Emperor Shintai, which is you becoming The Holy Tyrant for a moment and then collapsing into a body which is mostly normal except that you are surrounded by nuclear brilliance that forces people to bow down or perish.

I would expect the exoskeletons to work exactly as they did before when combined with a Shintai that is compatible in some fashion, like Devil Tyrant Shintai. You keep the Exoskeleton - although it may look rather twisted.

I think part of that might be helped by the fact that Malfeas is still king of the Yozis, so he's allowed to mess with anyone (Except maybe Oramus.)

Zarthrax
2010-12-15, 08:17 PM
Personally, I think it would be better if they interacted with Demon Emperor Shintai.

I like the idea of, as a for instance, the Kimbery/Malfeas version inflicting mutations instead of Green Sun Wasting...


Damn, I wish I could write charms...lol

Primal Fury
2010-12-15, 08:26 PM
I think you mean Devil Tyrant Shintai
No, I meant Demon Emperor Shintai, the one that not only transforms you into the Holy Tyrant for a moment, but also provides you with a buffed version of Viridian Legend Exoskeleton, which these charms mess with.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-15, 10:11 PM
Oh! I didn't remember that, just the massive anima which burns those who refuse to recognize you as king and those who actually look at you get Green Sun Wasting as well. Well, in that case, I'd say yes. The charm will give it (the shintai) some better use in small-group combat.

Arcanoi
2010-12-18, 05:55 PM
The Adorjani construction charm and the Cecelynian Exoskeleton are both far too powerful. The Adorjani construction charm does what a whole branch of Alchemical charms have to pay massive penalties to do, and the Cecylnian Exoskeleton is appearance dots at a ridiculous discount.

aetherialDawn
2010-12-19, 10:47 PM
Alchemicals can turn Peripheral Essence into Personal? I do know that they have an obvious charm which turns off their anima display. I would recommend the following changes, however, upon looking at the Adorjan 'construction' charm (The roads one.)

-Don't convert Peripheral to Personal; just the Furnace Soul.
-Allow the Infernal to spend only 1/2 the normal motes to activate their anima power, and choose either x0 or x2 for the contribution to their Anima Banner whenever they use Personal motes, with Peripheral being a flat x1 at all times. (Malfeas has no need for the feeble Peripheral Motes of his subjects, as he is all Personal.)
-As you may have noticed, I recommend a x2 rather than a x4 multiplier, although x3 would also work just fine.


Glass Messiah Exoskeleton is a huge Appearance boost, yes. It does not break caps, limiting its use. It is BLINDINGLY Obvious, for MILES, when its effect is in use - instead of an 8+ anima banner you get one which is basically a massive lighthouse for MILES. I would even say that it has use as a signaling charm, it's so Obvious!

*Glass Messiah does combine nicely with appearance cap breakers. But combinatorial explosion applies to everyone (and the real problem is with breaking that cap...), so I don't see any NEW problems with that. I rather like it, though I think I would get as much use out of it from signaling as from appearance-boosting.

Xefas
2011-01-02, 03:48 AM
A few things:
-I toned down the Adorjan Soul Construction. Was it enough?
-I may do some Demon Emperor Shintai + Heretical Exoskeleton integration charms in the future but, for now, the shintai remains pure.
-The Cecelyne Exoskeleton does give a lot of Appearance for its experience cost, but Appearance has always been the easiest to raise. A 3-dot artifact (the equivalent of 9xp: the same as this charm) available to everyone can get you +4 Appearance regardless of your Essence, in addition to the ability to change your clothing at will. This charm has the capability to get you an extra dot, true, but given the Appearance bonus cap, that extra dot isn't likely to help out the majority of the time, and the Exoskeleton's use comes with the significant drawback of being the most Obvious thing that has ever happened.
-New Kung Fu Demon charms.

Primal Fury
2011-01-02, 10:39 AM
Alright, let's have a look at-

Sowing the Emerald Blossom

:smalleek:

:smallconfused:

:smallmad:

:smallconfused:

...I got nuthin'.

aetherialDawn
2011-01-14, 10:00 PM
I approve of the new Arterial Roadways Construction. Whatever might be needed to 'perfect' it is merely icing on the cake at this point; it enhances your control over your anima banner without being overwhelming.

-

Long Disclaimer, then my opinion: I don't make martial arts characters (so far...) so I can speak only as someone inside the system but outside the specifics. Forgive me if I'm a little vague because of that. My pre-assumptions seem fairly solid though: Sidereal Martial Arts are powerful, indeed capable of breaking the game. Sidereal Martial Arts require a sifu - although this can be solved by having it be a Sidereal/Solar Akuma (except that it requires cutting off your yozi connections!) Most characters making use of such a powerful charm will be looking for one of three things: POWER, in the form of Sidereal Martial Arts cheese. POWER, in the form of advancement of their martial skill, which happens to lead to Sidereal Martial Arts because they are the normal pinnacle. Or CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT, because they are a Martial Artist and so of course they'll seek Sidereal Martial Arts for one reason or another - seeking Martial Arts is part of their character anyway.

Onwards!
Well, Infernals already lacked necromancy (unless you take the Ebon Dragon charms... AND three MORE charms if you want sorcery at the same time) so I suppose seeing them get Sidereal Martial Arts is nice; I can't complain about them breaking the game because that's not a function of Infernals and there's no special synergy I can see. Instead, I would say...

Infernals are not meant to break the game IN THAT WAY. If an Infernal has managed to free themselves from their primordial masters, I say let them develop Sidereal Martial Arts access as part of a caste power for their unique caste if/when they design that. By this point in their power, Infernals should be unleashing their inner chaos and individuality, not submitting themselves to a tutor to learn (admittedly awesome) kung-fu.

Having said all that, I'd like to expand upon what I think could replace this; going back to the three reasons to pursue Sidereal Martial Arts, I assume we are not in favor of cheese, merely interesting charms. So we can discount the first aim. The second aim - increasing martial prowess - can and should be handled by custom charms by the time an Infernal is turning into a Primordial (Essence 6+) because their martial 'flavor' ought to be unique. This also covers the third aim, in a rather roundabout way, because their concept - and thus the Primordial they are becoming - involves Martial Arts as key, and so they can probably replicate Sideral Martial Arts in the same way as the Unconquered Sun might - because he/they are just that awesome, not because their 'type' can access it in any way normally. Infernals can already design their own caste powers, and 'Able to learn SMA' seems like a reasonable one, given their power level, if their focus is on martial arts.

That all demands a lot from our theoretical player, though, so I might keep this one on probation, but if it was a choice between SMA access only through this charm or no SMA access, I'd go with no SMA access. If it can't be done by turning into a world-building abomination with a mythology of martial arts empowering it, then it can't be done at all.

-

Being able to teach people charms you don't know from martial arts has a feedback loop, since they then teach you those charms, though I don't recall the exact text of Gifts, so it may have a restriction which happens to cover that. If so, mention that they aren't 'real' martial arts charms since they... aren't, really. If it doesn't cover that, add that restriction.

-

The enlightenment seems okay.

-

In all... For having the least experience with Martial Arts out of those charms, I sure had a lot to say on it.

Xefas
2011-01-14, 10:57 PM
...I got nuthin'.

Up until aetherial's post, I thought this meant that I'd made a charm so perfect and elegant that Primal Fury was speechless in awe. I'm kind of reconsidering that opinion now. :smalltongue:



Long Disclaimer, then my opinion.

I like your perspective. I see where you're coming from. I think it is definitely more in line with an Infernal going the "evolve into a primordialish thing" path to sort of create their own martial arts destiny, and replicate Sidereal Martial Arts level things within their own tree. I absolutely agree.

However, I think the one downside to filling the entire Heretical section of the Broken Winged Crane with the Devil-Tiger tree was that it kind of focused the readers' attention on that overly much. It made "Heretical Charms" and "Becoming your own Primordial" synonymous. Infernals become this set progression that, eventually, you have to choose "Become a Yozi" or "Become a Primordial", and you lose the perspective that, Wow, Heretical charms can do a lot of thing. In reality, the whole tree starting with Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger is just a drop in the bucket - just a theoretical tree of charms being highlighted among limitless, equally powerful possibilities.

You're judging the charms through the lens of an Infernal who knows of, and is interested in, taking those Devil Tiger charms. What if that's not the case? What if he's looking for transcendence in the form of "I study the concepts of Creation through the medium of Sidereal Martial Arts, and subsume them in the same way that my Exaltation allows me to subsume the concepts of the Yozi. Eventually, I will become some kind of crazy avatar of Creation itself." Why would that be a less valid heretical path? I think it would be pretty awesome, personally.


Being able to teach people charms you don't know from martial arts has a feedback loop, since they then teach you those charms, though I don't recall the exact text of Gifts, so it may have a restriction which happens to cover that. If so, mention that they aren't 'real' martial arts charms since they... aren't, really. If it doesn't cover that, add that restriction.

I don't think Gifts of Greater Glory really worries about that. You can already, for instance, use it to teach another Infernal World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation even though you don't even know of its existence, and then have them teach you World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation. I'm not sure why applying the same concept to martial arts would be a problem.

Also, I've added another charm: Contemptuous Theogenetic Reconstitution under Double Heresy. Trying to nail a Cecelyne/Swlihn/Ebon Dragon combo.

Edge
2011-01-15, 12:09 AM
What if that's not the case? What if he's looking for transcendence in the form of "I study the concepts of Creation through the medium of Sidereal Martial Arts, and subsume them in the same way that my Exaltation allows me to subsume the concepts of the Yozi. Eventually, I will become some kind of crazy avatar of Creation itself." Why would that be a less valid heretical path? I think it would be pretty awesome, personally.

But isn't the "avatar of Creation" Gaia? Isn't she already a Primordial that embodies those concepts?

Xefas
2011-01-15, 12:49 AM
But isn't the "avatar of Creation" Gaia? Isn't she already a Primordial that embodies those concepts?

Not really. A few of her third circle souls are fused with the Elemental Poles, but that's about it. They aren't even the poles themselves. No, she is, more accurately, the concept of life (and the five elements). I think I've even read a convincing theory or two about her fetich soul being the spring that creates new souls.

But Creation is more than just the elements, and it's more than just life. For one, it was a monument crafted by the Primordials to stand against the Wyld. Gaia had a hand in crafting Creation, but she is not Creation. Resemblances to her are merely reflections of her work on it.

Not to mention, I specifically used the term 'avatar' to be distinct from "Primordial that embodies the concepts of Creation" or even "The new classification of being that resembles Primordials as created by the Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger tree of charms". If we've already established that Heretical charms can craft new kinds of beings never before seen in Creation, nor even theorized to be possible of existing, why must it be limited to only one kind of theoretical being? If you can alter yourself in such fundamental ways, why alter yourself in that direction, rather than another? The only reason I can come up with is because the designers already gave us a head start in that direction, so it's easier to conceptualize, or easier to justify wacky things.

Primal Fury
2011-01-15, 11:16 AM
I don't think Gifts of Greater Glory really worries about that. You can already, for instance, use it to teach another Infernal World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation even though you don't even know of its existence, and then have them teach you World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation. I'm not sure why applying the same concept to martial arts would be a problem.

But they don't NEED to teach you World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation, you can learn it on your own. Native charms don't require a tutor.

Xefas
2011-01-15, 03:11 PM
But they don't NEED to teach you World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation, you can learn it on your own. Native charms don't require a tutor.

Alright, I suppose, as a better analogue, you can shoot someone with Gifts, and initiate them into Emerald Circle Sorcery (if they've been through the proper trials in their life), even though you know absolutely nothing about sorcery. And then they can turn around and teach you sorcery, putting you through any trials you don't have the life experience to cover.

Or, you could zap someone with knowledge of Unity of the Closed Fist, and then have them teach it to you.

Or, with a Fiend, I suppose you could zap a Sidereal with Implicit Construction Methodology, in exchange for them turning around and teaching it to you.

I guess I'm just not seeing why doing the same with Martial Arts charms is a problem. What exactly is the problem? I'm not trying to be belligerent, I'm just ignorant.

InfiniteNothing
2011-01-15, 06:57 PM
Well, I've been keeping track of this thread for a while so far and, well, I've gotta admit that I like what I see. Howver, Arterial Roadway Soul Construction seems... weak, now. I admit that having it combine both mote pools into one massive Personal mote pool was probably overpowered, but maybe converting a portion of the Peripheral mote pool to Personal? Like, maybe 1/10 per dot of Essence? (Yes, this might be overpowered as well, but I'm working on it.)

aetherialDawn
2011-01-15, 07:50 PM
Up until aetherial's post, I thought this meant that I'd made a charm so perfect and elegant that Primal Fury was speechless in awe. I'm kind of reconsidering that opinion now. :smalltongue:



I like your perspective. I see where you're coming from. I think it is definitely more in line with an Infernal going the "evolve into a primordialish thing" path to sort of create their own martial arts destiny, and replicate Sidereal Martial Arts level things within their own tree. I absolutely agree.

However, I think the one downside to filling the entire Heretical section of the Broken Winged Crane with the Devil-Tiger tree was that it kind of focused the readers' attention on that overly much. It made "Heretical Charms" and "Becoming your own Primordial" synonymous. Infernals become this set progression that, eventually, you have to choose "Become a Yozi" or "Become a Primordial", and you lose the perspective that, Wow, Heretical charms can do a lot of thing. In reality, the whole tree starting with Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger is just a drop in the bucket - just a theoretical tree of charms being highlighted among limitless, equally powerful possibilities.

You're judging the charms through the lens of an Infernal who knows of, and is interested in, taking those Devil Tiger charms. What if that's not the case? What if he's looking for transcendence in the form of "I study the concepts of Creation through the medium of Sidereal Martial Arts, and subsume them in the same way that my Exaltation allows me to subsume the concepts of the Yozi. Eventually, I will become some kind of crazy avatar of Creation itself." Why would that be a less valid heretical path? I think it would be pretty awesome, personally.



I don't think Gifts of Greater Glory really worries about that. You can already, for instance, use it to teach another Infernal World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation even though you don't even know of its existence, and then have them teach you World-Grinding Sandstorm Devastation. I'm not sure why applying the same concept to martial arts would be a problem.

Also, I've added another charm: Contemptuous Theogenetic Reconstitution under Double Heresy. Trying to nail a Cecelyne/Swlihn/Ebon Dragon combo.

I have looked up Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger, and while its wording is certainly biased heavily towards 'you are a new Primordial/Yozi', the technical requirement is that the Infernal is declaring their own mythology, becoming a legend all their own. Technically said legend could well be 'channeling the powers of all the Yozis like the Captain Planet to their Planeteers', or 'be the One True Martial Artist, embodying all the concepts of the Lotus'

Note that The Tempest of Inward Focus is what I refer to as far as designing anima powers. It requires Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger as a prerequisite. In both cases, despite the bias in imagery and description, the mechanical requirements of the charm is that the Infernal is redesigning their own exaltation - and Sidereal Martial Arts capability is indeed one of the traits they might include, as is 'natural' Necromancy if they so desired. It's all based on the character's own aptitudes and talents, not those of being a world-creating titan. Unless they want to.

I guess my point is that the charms really are flexible enough to handle this, but giving SMA to any Infernal who wishes to pursue that charm, rather than those who focus their entire goals on it, is something I'm unsure of. Sidereal Martial Arts are the pinnacle, after all.

Basically, Heretical charms can do a lot, and Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger + The Tempest of Inwards Focus together allow you to actually redesign your character. Adding more heretical charms that redesign your character seems to be stepping on their toes for no particular reason. Sidereal Martial Arts are important: If your character wants them, then they want them, and they can most certainly get them.

I would like to ask what you think of the fact that Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger is rather more extreme; I think that Sidereal Martial arts (And Solar Sorcery for Lunars, etc.) SHOULD be that extreme, but I'm open to arguments for other paths.


Alright, I suppose, as a better analogue, you can shoot someone with Gifts, and initiate them into Emerald Circle Sorcery (if they've been through the proper trials in their life), even though you know absolutely nothing about sorcery. And then they can turn around and teach you sorcery, putting you through any trials you don't have the life experience to cover.

Or, you could zap someone with knowledge of Unity of the Closed Fist, and then have them teach it to you.

Or, with a Fiend, I suppose you could zap a Sidereal with Implicit Construction Methodology, in exchange for them turning around and teaching it to you.

I guess I'm just not seeing why doing the same with Martial Arts charms is a problem. What exactly is the problem? I'm not trying to be belligerent, I'm just ignorant.

Points taken. As I am fairly ignorant about the finer points of Gifts as well, I'm going to say that it can probably be used in that fashion. Whatever restrictions it has should be the same for Martial Arts... But since it can teach things which you can then be taught, Martial Arts doesn't need any special new restrictions.




Oh, and Contemptuous Theogenetic Reconstitution is good, I jsut forgot to mention it the first time around. Because, well, it's good. As with all things godly, it puts a lot of strain on the storyteller, but again, that's a function of 'all things godly', not really the charm. The fact that you can only make the gods from the starmetal of the god you're copying does a lot to cut off potential confusion and misuse:
Do you have the starmetal of the god?
Yes -> You can remake that god
No -> You cannot remake that god

I like that kind of natural simplicity.

If you're going to make a charm that allows you to create your OWN gods, then I just have no idea what I'll think of it. Frankly, gods are so complex that even if it was thematically appropriate I'm not sure I could bring myself to inflict such torment on a storyteller as forcing them to carefully examine a powerful designer deity. Especially since most powerful gods go a step further and have custom charms, so once it leaves the realm of simple, easily quantified gods it starts getting complicated.

Xefas
2011-01-21, 03:11 AM
Howver, Arterial Roadway Soul Construction seems... weak, now.

Pfft; wait until the upgrade charm that lets you turn into an actual road-web of Dragon Lines. :smallwink:


Stuff

Okay, I've taken a step back. I'm thinking about it. Mulling over my original design. Just like my original Ebon Dragon redemption charm was dumb, but I redid it and it was less so, I think I can mess with the idea of gaining Sidereal Martial Arts to make it better without shoehorning it into the Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger tree.

Would it be more palatable if it were the capstone of a thematic tree of charms, rather than as semi-easily accessible as it is now (as easily accessible as you can call Essence 6 with two prerequisites)? If the character had to have a legitimate dedication and alter themselves in more fundamental ways to achieve this goal?

Also, glad you like the Reconstitution. I added a little addendum at the end to specify how it interacts with synthetically made starmetal.

I've also added a new category (in addition to making that first post wall of text a little easier to read via some spoiler boxes), The Mad Sun. I know what some of you might be thinking when you read that. And I know what some of you might be thinking when you read the first part of that first charm, but I implore you to read to the end. I am immensely in love with that second charm in every way.

Primal Fury
2011-01-21, 06:39 PM
stuff
Actually... at a certain point, I believe you can use Gifts of Greater Glory on yourself anyway. Though you can't learn Sorcery that way, you need to do the trials and junk if you want that.

aetherialDawn
2011-01-21, 07:17 PM
Trying to be a bit more concise.


Pfft; wait until the upgrade charm that lets you turn into an actual road-web of Dragon Lines. :smallwink:
I am intrigued by this idea.


a legitimate dedication and alter themselves in more fundamental ways
Yeah, this is good. Frankly, Infernals have the Power Level to learn Sidereal Martial Arts, they just need the alteration and willingness to accept the consequences - like how the Ebon Dragon allows them to learn Necromancy, in an odd and twisted fashion.



I've also added a new category (in addition to making that first post wall of text a little easier to read via some spoiler boxes), The Mad Sun. I know what some of you might be thinking when you read that. And I know what some of you might be thinking when you read the first part of that first charm, but I implore you to read to the end. I am immensely in love with that second charm in every way.
Having looked at them... Well the main problem is that I haven't been terribly moved by having a Past Life. However, the first charm seems A-Okay. The second, at its most extreme, allows nearly x10 damage, possibly then added with a combo, at the notable expense of Torment. Some Torments, that's fine, some Torments, that might well not be enough.

These two I see as necessary for the Charm.
-Mention how it interacts with performing an Act of Villainy.
-Needs more risk from using it at high Limit.

These I see as an interesting possibility for the charm, but not necessary.
-Make it more of a gamble. Death or glory seems like an apt descriptor for what I'd like to see here - it doesn't have any uncertain effects, everything can be determined beforehand, it doesn't depend upon the dice any more than a normal attack.
-Increase the cost, but allow using it at a 0m cost at some other, painful, possibly increasing-with-multiple-uses expense. Allow the Infernal to tear himself apart searching for victory.



(Oh, and I think the 'artificial starmetal isn't viable' is a good idea. What does it do to Autochthonian starmetal? A lifeless mechanical thing - a divinity, but not one which you can reanimate - perhaps?)

Xefas
2011-01-21, 08:04 PM
Actually... at a certain point, I believe you can use Gifts of Greater Glory on yourself anyway. Though you can't learn Sorcery that way, you need to do the trials and junk if you want that.

I'm getting rid of those charms anyway, so I think the point is finally moot (until later). Vassal-Enlightening Malediction was fine, though, right?



Having looked at them... Well the main problem is that I haven't been terribly moved by having a Past Life. However, the first charm seems A-Okay.

Well, I suppose I'll divulge some of my thought process. For this first bit, I'll say that: while searching for themes to draw Heretical ideas from, I realized that the whole "Past Life is a unique background that Green Sun Princes get for some reason" hasn't really gotten a lot of attention. Not even Abyssals get it, which I find interesting.

It says that the Ebon Dragon allowed the Green Sun Princes to retain memories of their Solar selves for the power it might grant them but, really, I get the feeling he simply jumped at the chance to inflict shame and horror on his murderers even from beyond their own graves. Because, with the Past Life, a Green Sun Prince's state of being mirrors the Yozis'. They were a hero, they felt defeat and humiliation, and now they are these blasphemous shells forced to recall their former glory from inside a cage they can never break.

But, just like the Yozi, with these charms, the Prince may rattle his cage and bear his teeth in much the same way Malfeas throws Erymanthoi into Creation to sow death and mayhem as if to say "I am still here. And I still hate you."


The second, at its most extreme, allows nearly x10 damage, possibly then added with a combo, at the notable expense of Torment. Some Torments, that's fine, some Torments, that might well not be enough.

Well, it's not exactly 10x damage. First, you have to not be using a perfect attack (because there's no attack roll there), and then you have to beat their DV, and then they have to not be using a Perfect Defense, and then, if you happen to stage it correctly such that you are already high on limit, and then voluntarily suffer Torment, and make use of Past Life (which is limited-use-per-session, so is a valuable resource) with all the perils that it entails (Solar taking control of you and screwing you over), and then manage to get a few successes over the DV, you get to multiply those threshold successes by 10.

It's a lot of "ifs" and potential penalties, especially compared with the charms out there that amount to "Do you have a perfect? No? Well, your lungs are now snakes."

I'm not saying you're wrong; I just want to make sure you're seeing and evaluating the whole ordeal that it involves.


-Mention how it interacts with performing an Act of Villainy

How, exactly? I'm not seeing any weird interactions with it that need to be specified.


These I see as an interesting possibility for the charm, but not necessary.

I want it to recall a twisted Hungry Tiger Technique as much as possible. That charm, for me, is the iconic Dawn-Caste charm. It's cheap (1m), it's simple (I stab you; you take more damage), and has no weird effects. I realize that "weird effects" is the Infernal schtick, but my goal is to represent that by all the Limit-adding, Torment effects, and Past Life interactions that are built around this core of "Iconic Simple Solar Charm", without fundamentally altering the core. I want it to read, play, and feel like "This is a Solar with layers of mutilated primordial flesh wrapped around it" on every level.

I also want to do another few charms based on what are, personally to me, the iconic charms of each of the other Castes. The only problem is that I'm having trouble picking which charms those are. I may have to do more than one for each.


(Oh, and I think the 'artificial starmetal isn't viable' is a good idea. What does it do to Autochthonian starmetal? A lifeless mechanical thing - a divinity, but not one which you can reanimate - perhaps?)

I actually don't know anything about how stuff works in Autochthonia. I'd think starmetal made from Autochthonia gods would work just fine. Is there a reason it wouldn't/shouldn't?

aetherialDawn
2011-01-21, 08:43 PM
Well, it's not exactly 10x damage. First, you have to not be using a perfect attack (because there's no attack roll there), and then you have to beat their DV, and then they have to not be using a Perfect Defense, and then, if you happen to stage it correctly such that you are already high on limit, and then voluntarily suffer Torment, and make use of Past Life (which is limited-use-per-session, so is a valuable resource) with all the perils that it entails (Solar taking control of you and screwing you over), and then manage to get a few successes over the DV, you get to multiply those threshold successes by 10.

It's a lot of "ifs" and potential penalties, especially compared with the charms out there that amount to "Do you have a perfect? No? Well, your lungs are now snakes."

I'm not saying you're wrong; I just want to make sure you're seeing and evaluating the whole ordeal that it involves.


First of all, didn't see the 'past lives' bit. WHOOPS, that's a nice big restriction on any potential abuse, and introduces all that lovely risk I was talking about.
And yeah, beyond just that, looked at as a nice list it's fine. Maybe arrange the wording a little differently, but all those problems stemmed from my error.
Again... oops.



How, exactly? I'm not seeing any weird interactions with it that need to be specified.

Acts of Villainy = calling out to a specific Yozi and saying 'I like you, and I am going to intentionally emulate you to prove it! Fix my Torment please!'
This Charm = calling upon the radiance of the Primordial-murdering Solars.

I just have to think that, should someone be insane and suicidal enough to combine 'Solar power' with 'Calling to the Yozis' something out to happen, even if it's as simple as 'You cannot use this charm as a direct component of an Act of Villainy; no opponent slain by it counts as slain, but you can weaken them using it and slay them some other way.'



I actually don't know anything about how stuff works in Autochthonia. I'd think starmetal made from Autochthonia gods would work just fine. Is there a reason it wouldn't/shouldn't?

Fair enough; I don't either. Autochthonia is a bit scarce on such details sometimes.
A) I'm not sure Autochthonian starmetal is made from Autochthonian deities in the first place, it may be pieces of Autochthon
B) Autochthonian deities are like gods, but like his Design Weavers vs. Pattern Spiders, they are best described as Divinity 2.0.
C) Autochthonian deities have never known loyalty to any Primordial but Autochthon. He is their Maker, and they do not have any of the geas-type effects the deities of Creation have. This is probably the big one, since we don't know which way A goes.

It sounds like a valid target for the charm, which would happen to lack the bit which allows you to re-animate and command as opposed to merely reconstruct (hence my comment about inanimate results)

Xefas
2011-01-21, 08:54 PM
Acts of Villainy = calling out to a specific Yozi and saying 'I like you, and I am going to intentionally emulate you to prove it! Fix my Torment please!'
This Charm = calling upon the radiance of the Primordial-murdering Solars.

Actually, Torment and Acts of Villainy are built into the Infernal Exaltation completely independent of the Yozi. That's why even after you get the Triumphant Howl of the Devil Tiger tree, sever your link to the Yozi's entirely, and even reconfigure your caste and become a Primordial-Exalt, you still suffer Torment and can still make use of all of the Yozi Acts of Villainy to reduce Limit.

This is why I specifically described the progressively larger gains of Limit as being due to strain on the Exaltation from the Infernal voluntarily imprinted more of a Yozi's fundamental concepts onto it. It's not that the Yozi are mad at them (though they would be if they knew you were doing this).


C) Autochthonian deities have never known loyalty to any Primordial but Autochthon. He is their Maker, and they do not have any of the geas-type effects the deities of Creation have. This is probably the big one, since we don't know which way A goes.

Well, part of the charm's flavor (the Cecelyne part, probably) involves taking advantage of the Divine Geas to force the Primordial's servitors to serve once again. In this case, I think I'll go add another addendum about it not functioning on Autochthonian starmetal.

Primal Fury
2011-01-21, 10:09 PM
Well, it's not exactly 10x damage. First, you have to not be using a perfect attack (because there's no attack roll there)
Yes there is actually. Perfect attacks are still rolled for the purpose of determining extra raw damage. If you don't roll any, you succeed with a threshold of 0 successes (barring perfect defenses of course). If you don't want it to work with perfect attacks, you should specify that

Other than that... I'm not sure how I feel about these new charms. Where are they supposed to take you?

Xefas
2011-01-22, 08:45 PM
Yes there is actually. Perfect attacks are still rolled for the purpose of determining extra raw damage. If you don't roll any, you succeed with a threshold of 0 successes (barring perfect defenses of course). If you don't want it to work with perfect attacks, you should specify that

Ah, right. I forgot about that. I'm not sure if barring perfect attacks is necessary for balance, though. If only because I can't seem to think of any Infernal offensive perfects off the top of my head. Maybe I'm just having a brain-fart.


Other than that... I'm not sure how I feel about these new charms. Where are they supposed to take you?

Hmmm...I'm not sure. I absolutely don't want them to become "redemption" charms. I think Infernals are the new evolution of entity in the universe; becoming a Solar is a step back, in my mind. Maybe you'll eventually merge with your Solar persona, or maybe you'll just bleed his residual power dry and devour him utterly.

I'll have to think on it, but I like to imagine a strain of bacteria finding out that it has a weakened dose of penicillin trapped inside of it, nomnomnoming it, and then finding out that, now, its nature has changed such that penicillin doesn't scare it so much anymore.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about the metaphor, the less appropriate I feel that it is for these specific charms. I dunno. Maybe I'll have two separate paths that you go down. In one, maybe you become a Twisted God-King (you merge with the Solar), and in the other, you immunize yourself against your natural predator (eating the Solar).

Primal Fury
2011-01-22, 09:16 PM
That certainly sounds interesting, but I'd need to see more charms before I can judge it thematically.

Mechanically though... Hungry Devil Tiger is too powerful. Damage multiplication at such a low essence level, for such a small cost is terribly broken.

aetherialDawn
2011-01-23, 12:13 AM
Damage multiplication of threshold successes - so it doesn't work with perfects because even 10*0 is still... 0.

Also, I would direct you to Hungry Tiger Technique. Solar Charm.

Melee 2, Essence 1, 1m cost.
Doubles attack successes for damage. One-fifth of this charms MAXIMUM potential, reliably (remember, if you hit 10 limit, you go into Torment and then back to 0!) with zero other costs (it doesn't try to fracture your soul with each use!)

Also, I forgot that the Yozis actually gave up control of Limit and Torment. I had thought that they merely agreed to those rules, and then you later took Torment away from them and gave it to yourself. Oops.

Anyway... If you only use the new charm at 9 Limit, putting you at 10, then you could get more out of the charm at the additional cost of a point of limit, but you could also use it very rarely, so I'd say that's fine.

Primal Fury
2011-01-23, 01:16 AM
It doesn't work that way if you have Ascendancy Mantle of Malfeas, which makes your minimum limit 5 (even if it does reset). This can get real ugly when comboed with excellencies (especially 2nd excellencies).

aetherialDawn
2011-01-23, 12:59 PM
Alright, then if you have minimum limit 5 (and all the problems that brings) you can subject yourself to Torment over and over again for damage. It's still not worth it UNLESS your storyteller has decided to make Torment an extremely un-serious affair, not particularly hampering you, but in that case it requires an assumption of a very easy Storyteller, which shouldn't have to factor into charm balance.

Primal Fury
2011-01-23, 01:56 PM
Well... Torment really isn't a big deal since it doesn't cripple you in the same way the Great Curse does, it cripples everyone around you in many cases (which makes Torment beneficial in some cases). With the exception of Cecelyne's Torment, you go through Torment over and over and over again without much of a problem.

Xefas
2011-01-23, 05:37 PM
Well... Torment really isn't a big deal since it doesn't cripple you in the same way the Great Curse does, it cripples everyone around you in many cases (which makes Torment beneficial in some cases). With the exception of Cecelyne's Torment, you go through Torment over and over and over again without much of a problem.

Well, if we're comparing the severity of Torment to the Great Curse, two of the Torments are just Solar Limit Breaks + Other Bad Stuff (Pyrian and Ophidian). Adorjan's I find extremely crippling; far more than just weeping in the corner or auto-combating oppression. Malfeas' is pretty bad. If you take into account the Ascendancy Mantle of Malfeas, we're talking about everyone with 8 or less MDV (minimum; it could go up to 10 if you have higher virtue) immediately attacking you to the best of their abilities. You can mitigate this somewhat by having your entire party optimize their MDV (which, from my IRL Exalted game experience, is not the case), but even then, I'm sure you can imagine how it might be detrimental for every fight scene you use this to also draw in every single NPC in the area without optimized MDVs to immediately focus all of their attacks on you simultaneously.

Kimbery's admittedly, can fluctuate between tame or horrifying, depending upon how much your group uses intimacies. I've played with people who basically ignore the building/losing intimacies mechanic, and with people who insist that every scene should count towards building/losing something.

If you play an Infernal with a Kimberian Urge with the intimacies "That Ball of Lint in my Backpack (RAAAGE)" and "Walruses (Disappointment)" then it'll be a lot less threatening than someone that has "My Coven (Trust)" and "My Vitriol Tainted Orichalcum Celestial Battle Armor (Pride)".

EDIT: Oh right, I forgot Cecelyne. Well, I've always considered hers pretty tame, since Torment doesn't typically happen that often. But, given the propensity for people to not grab Hardened Devil Body, if you use a lot of these Limit-gaining charms, it'll be harmless right up until it kills you.

aetherialDawn
2011-01-24, 10:52 AM
Don't forget, Xefas, that if you have a Malfean Urge that anyone you love will also be subject to random attacks by all who look at them too hard. After you, of course. And that it can technically be overcome... with a lot of willpower points spent by the one attacking. Each time you trigger the torment, of course.

Also remember that Torments are never 'one day, or one scene in combat' - The duration they have is the duration you get. So when She Who Lives in Her Name decides you're a sociopath for a day, she doesn't care that you were fighting for your life: You're a sociopath for 24 hours.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, Cecelyne is just damage. The fact that you can soak it with natural stamina makes it supremely wimpy. You'd just better hope that everyone you love was also aware you planned to be slicing them up with excruciating pain occasionally, and got their nearly superhuman stamina ready accordingly. And you might want to be prepared for them to love you a little less when they find out that you are willing to periodically torture them for power.

New Edit: Say, Heart-Impelling Method! Inflict Limit Break upon a crowd of people: Really powerful. 2 willpower to resist: Less of a problem now. You are also afflicted by the Limit Break and cannot resist: No longer a problem.
BUT THEN, spend limit to resist!
I'm not sure that two limit is an appropriate amount to resist the limit break. I would personally prefer three, as while limit is generally more of a problem than willpower, it is generally used for less. If the entire Mad Sun 'tree' is all about spending limit to get effects, then it might be okay, but I would still say that most charms should cost 1-3 limit, and powerful ones (like this) should cost 3-5. And it is powerful, even if it's not going to touch exalts most of the time - also remember that at the mere cost of a limit break you chose beforehand consciously, you don't have to pay the limit cost, so that cost is inherently tilted in the Infernal's favor.

Xefas
2011-02-21, 03:16 AM
New Edit: Say, Heart-Impelling Method! Inflict Limit Break upon a crowd of people: Really powerful. 2 willpower to resist: Less of a problem now. You are also afflicted by the Limit Break and cannot resist: No longer a problem.
BUT THEN, spend limit to resist!
I'm not sure that two limit is an appropriate amount to resist the limit break. I would personally prefer three, as while limit is generally more of a problem than willpower, it is generally used for less. If the entire Mad Sun 'tree' is all about spending limit to get effects, then it might be okay, but I would still say that most charms should cost 1-3 limit, and powerful ones (like this) should cost 3-5. And it is powerful, even if it's not going to touch exalts most of the time - also remember that at the mere cost of a limit break you chose beforehand consciously, you don't have to pay the limit cost, so that cost is inherently tilted in the Infernal's favor.

Alright, I changed it to 3 limit instead of 2. Seems steep to me, but I'm sure it'll even up if I fill out the tree a bit more.

Also, in my constant effort to find new avenues and themes for Infernals to develop in, I've added a charm that deals with the Yozi's theme of horrible failure!

aetherialDawn
2011-02-22, 12:57 AM
In order:

1) Cast-From-Heaven Epiphany
Solar:
-The Ebon Dragon loves this charm, and it is quite appropriate. Reduce heroism for personal gain? Of course! It seems fine. Good thing it's 'May' - wouldn't want all our Slayers becoming cowardly wretches, now would we?

Abyssal:
-Appropriately to the other 'normally-villainous' type of Exaltation, losing to an Abyssal doesn't really make the Infernal more villainous by taking advantage of this. It is also extremely vague: Any charm which creates something physical and lasting, aids in crafting, or aids in combat. Considering that a great number of Infernal charms have secondary or thematic uses, that covers even more options - and Infernals already stretch a lot of meanings.
I think this needs to be ironed out, but it's a good concept.

Terrestrial/Alchemical:
-Same problem as losing to an Abyssal, but since losing to a Terrestrial is more humiliating, that's fine. If you specify only truly defensive, not merely 'defend self by killing foe' for Abyssal, and only truly offensive, not merely 'hinder foe by being hard to kill' for Alchemical/Terrestrial, then I think both of them would be improved. It may need to get a bit more specific, but it's a leap forwards.
Always be specific with Infernals, unless you truly intend to give them freedom (The Excellencies, for instance.)

Sidereal:
-Infernals don't suffer forgetfulness from Arcane Fate. They're outside fate, and so naturally immune to it. However, the ability to cast off unnatural mental influence from any sidereal when you lose to one? That's powerful. If it weren't so restricted by the requirement that the Infernal know his harrier combined with the secretiveness of Sidereals, I would call it the best of all the abilities for its potential as a sort of post-fact perfect mental defense. As it is, it's nice, but not that astounding, because again, knowledge required, Sidereals secretive.

Lunars:
-I like this one. Thematically similar to Solars (of course) yet different and more immediate (as befits Lunars.) Lunar beat you in Archery because you were a musician? Discard that foolish music for RAW KILLING POWER. Viva la Evolution! Of course, it requires you to lose first for each dot converted to XP...

Infernals:
-Well, this is pretty obvious. Otherwise, Malfean politics would be even more interesting, and we'd have to pay attention to them and stop playing the rest of the game. Infernals don't help Infernals; they were designed by the Ebon Dragon!


All in all, it's pretty good. The fact that it covers losing to every Exalt type in different ways is nice, and the variety of potential effects will make Infernals into disturbingly protean foes. It needs a lot of Storyteller adjudication on what constitutes a proper defeat, but because this charm doesn't allow any overall gain in power it shouldn't become a huge problem.
Given that ALL the Yozis know defeat (except maybe Adorjan, although 'letting go of what you have by gaining knowledge in defeat' is huge for her too) I think the prerequisites need to be 'any two from (list o' charms)' to make it available to any Infernal who has just been thwarted too many times.

2) I still want to see the Swirly weapon-heresy charm! The Cecyclene one was so nice, and the Swirly armor was so exactly what I wanted. I won't be disappointed if it's not exactly what I want, but I simply must know!

3) I would also like to know what exactly is behind the new avatar. I can't really say it more specifically, since I can't seem to do that without degenerating into confusion repeatedly.

Xefas
2011-02-22, 03:46 PM
In order:

1) Cast-From-Heaven Epiphany
Solar:
-The Ebon Dragon loves this charm, and it is quite appropriate. Reduce heroism for personal gain? Of course! It seems fine. Good thing it's 'May' - wouldn't want all our Slayers becoming cowardly wretches, now would we?

Abyssal:
-Appropriately to the other 'normally-villainous' type of Exaltation, losing to an Abyssal doesn't really make the Infernal more villainous by taking advantage of this. It is also extremely vague: Any charm which creates something physical and lasting, aids in crafting, or aids in combat. Considering that a great number of Infernal charms have secondary or thematic uses, that covers even more options - and Infernals already stretch a lot of meanings.
I think this needs to be ironed out, but it's a good concept.

Terrestrial/Alchemical:
-Same problem as losing to an Abyssal, but since losing to a Terrestrial is more humiliating, that's fine. If you specify only truly defensive, not merely 'defend self by killing foe' for Abyssal, and only truly offensive, not merely 'hinder foe by being hard to kill' for Alchemical/Terrestrial, then I think both of them would be improved. It may need to get a bit more specific, but it's a leap forwards.
Always be specific with Infernals, unless you truly intend to give them freedom (The Excellencies, for instance.)

Sidereal:
-Infernals don't suffer forgetfulness from Arcane Fate. They're outside fate, and so naturally immune to it. However, the ability to cast off unnatural mental influence from any sidereal when you lose to one? That's powerful. If it weren't so restricted by the requirement that the Infernal know his harrier combined with the secretiveness of Sidereals, I would call it the best of all the abilities for its potential as a sort of post-fact perfect mental defense. As it is, it's nice, but not that astounding, because again, knowledge required, Sidereals secretive.

Lunars:
-I like this one. Thematically similar to Solars (of course) yet different and more immediate (as befits Lunars.) Lunar beat you in Archery because you were a musician? Discard that foolish music for RAW KILLING POWER. Viva la Evolution! Of course, it requires you to lose first for each dot converted to XP...

Infernals:
-Well, this is pretty obvious. Otherwise, Malfean politics would be even more interesting, and we'd have to pay attention to them and stop playing the rest of the game. Infernals don't help Infernals; they were designed by the Ebon Dragon!


All in all, it's pretty good. The fact that it covers losing to every Exalt type in different ways is nice, and the variety of potential effects will make Infernals into disturbingly protean foes. It needs a lot of Storyteller adjudication on what constitutes a proper defeat, but because this charm doesn't allow any overall gain in power it shouldn't become a huge problem.
Given that ALL the Yozis know defeat (except maybe Adorjan, although 'letting go of what you have by gaining knowledge in defeat' is huge for her too) I think the prerequisites need to be 'any two from (list o' charms)' to make it available to any Infernal who has just been thwarted too many times.


Alright, cool, cool. I've tried to clarify the wording on the Abyssal and Terrestrial/Alchemical functions, and removed the bit about Arcane Fate (I honestly just wasn't thinking about the Outside of Fate thing). I'll work on compiling a more extensive lists of prerequisites.

2) I still want to see the Swirly weapon-heresy charm! The Cecyclene one was so nice, and the Swirly armor was so exactly what I wanted. I won't be disappointed if it's not exactly what I want, but I simply must know!

Ask and ye shell receive. I went back and forth on whether it should be a spoon or a tuning fork, so...it's either!
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/bluejanus/Mewtwo_spoon.png
3) I would also like to know what exactly is behind the new avatar. I can't really say it more specifically, since I can't seem to do that without degenerating into confusion repeatedly.

Well, there's this post of mine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10424455&postcount=20) in the Exalted Character Repository. My avatar is of the linked character, which is itself inspired by a character from this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180492)

aetherialDawn
2011-02-25, 07:07 PM
Bah, nobody else is talking about it, so I guess I have to.

Crystal Psycho-Amplification Implement

Mechanically, it's good. It allows alteration of the damage of Mind-Hand Manipulation, which is otherwise rather lacking in changes (unless you interpret Precision Thought-Force Exercise to let you use Martial Arts charms with it, in which case...) The charm allows for both single strong strikes, or improved flurrying.

Tuning Fork is obviously superior to Spoon! :smallbiggrin:

However, despite this, I have a problem; it's not very interesting. The Silver Scepter allows for a unique effect keyed off of an existing one, which is what made it so charming - you could use your 'favors' in a way not otherwise possible. This new spoon/fork suffers from the fact that while it does expand MHM, it doesn't really allow anything new, just more efficient use of the old. Now, that may well fit Swirly just fine ('I am already perfect! The only way I can be more perfect is by using what I already have!') but it could be better from the perspective of a heretical Infernal.

Looking, then, at the two Yozis involved... Malfeas and Swirly. We have nuclear fire, kingship, and OVERWHELMING POWER combined in some fashion with telekinesis, and ordered perfection, and SCIENCE.

Now, one idea which I was given was 'massive telekinesis on a small scale to create a nuclear explosion' but that seems a bit overpowered. Also Exalted doesn't have those silly atoms. I shall continue to think on it.



EDIT: Telekinetic on a mote-scale... as in, possibly, being able to attack something's motes directly. They probably just discharge, as draining would likely be hard to balance, but it seems like a natural progression of Swirly's telekinesis (which can already somewhat impact dematerialized things.)
Does that seem like an interesting idea for the combination of Swirly;'s particular brand of perfection and mastery of motes along with Malfeas's affinity for power (motes) and, perhaps, nuclear fire?

Alternatively or in addition, being able to spend motes in a more fluid fashion to add power. If it's in addition, then the motes might need to be stolen with a mote-targeting attack.

This all seems pretty complicated though, and the original charm is good! So unless you got any interesting inspiration from that, don't fix what isn't broken just yet. :smalltongue: I didn't give specifics for a reason.