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View Full Version : Gestalt Psion//Factotum Questions/Tips [3.x]



Noodles2375
2010-11-23, 01:53 AM
I'm building a high level (20th) factotum//psion for a short game with all 3.5 books allowed except ToMagic, and I was looking for some advice on saucy interactions, primarily with the factotum spell choices and the cunning brilliance class feature.

Some class features that seem obviously useful -
-Nabbing 10d6 sneak attack with powers like crystal shard/energy ray.
-Evasion/Imp Evasion
-Favored Soul Energy Resistances
Are there any other super cool uses of this I'm missing?

Additionally, are there any acknowledged "best choices" for the factotum's spells? I'm running a full caster on the other side of the gestalt, so at first glance, picking up things like all day buffs (overland flight, mage armor etc...) seemed like a good use of arcane dilettante so I wouldn't have to waste precious power points on buffs.

Also, it doesn't seem obvious, on reading, what happens to inspiration points that aren't used up between encounters. Does the pool reset? Dungeonscape doesn't explicitly say that the inspiration pool resets, but the way the ability works makes me think that the designers wanted it to.

Finally, it seems like inspiration points could run out fast in heated encounters, especially if I'm using them for things like getting extra std. actions to double cast/manifest. Is font of inspiration worth taking multiple times? It clearly gives an improved payout, but is that payout worth the feat tax?

Thanks for any and all thoughts!

JaronK
2010-11-23, 02:06 AM
Remember that all fighter feats are a single class feature, so you can grab them all at once and turn into one heck of a charger or archer or tripper or whatever. This can be extremely handy. Check out ToB maneuvers too.

Inspiration points reset every time you get into an encounter. An encounter is basically any time the players interact with their environment, and ends when they have time to take a breather (even a minute or so) so any time you want to start doing things outside of a DM given encounter you have full inspiration points to work with.

I believe in taking FoI about three times on a character, maybe four. As useful as the extra points are, there's just so many other useful feats that I don't think it's worth spending more than that (and I could see arguments for not taking it at all). Feats like Darkstalker and such are just so darn useful.

JaronK

mabriss lethe
2010-11-23, 02:07 AM
Inspiration points refresh at the beginning of every encounter. Your biggest friend is always going to be Cunning surge. Full casters with extra standard actions...well, they just win.

Jack_Simth
2010-11-23, 08:00 AM
Inspiration points refresh at the beginning of every encounter. Your biggest friend is always going to be Cunning surge. Full casters with extra standard actions...well, they just win.
Pretty much... although if you're doing that, you're going to burn through power points like there's no tomorrow. So you'll want a recharge mechanism. At your level, there's several:

1) Earth Sense (Races of Stone) + Earth Power (Races of Stone) + Bestow Power (Expanded Psionics Handbook) + Torc of Power Preservation (You want the one in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, not the one in the Magic Item Compendium) = Manifest Bestow Power on yourself (3 pp base cost: -1 for Torc of Power Preservation, -1 for Earth Power = 1 pp cost: And you bestow 2 power points on yourself - net gain of 1 pp per iteration, and everything is at will).

2) Affinity Field + Leadership + Bestow Power (for both you and your Cohort): You manifest Affinity Field (17 power points). For the rest of the duration, both you and your cohort manifest Bestow Power on you (augmented as you can). See, if you put, say, 15 points into Bestow Power, the Affinity Field manifester (and anyone else in the Affinity Field) gains 10 power points. If another person follows up and manifests Bestow Power on the Affinity Field manifester for 15 points, both the Affinity Field caster and anyone in the Affinity Field gain 10 power points. If it's just you and your cohort, and you're inside the affinity field, then ... oh, look: You've both spent 15 power points that round, and you've both gained 20 power points that round. Repeat until Affinity Field runs out, and you pay off the Affinity Field, too.

3) Magic of Incarnum: Bestow Power + Psicrystal Affinity + Psicrystal Containment + Psicarnum Infusion + Midnight Augmentation. This basically works the exact same way as the other recharge mechanisms: Midnight Augmentation lets you expend your psionic focus to get a discount on Augmenting the power (Combine with a Torc of Power Preservation if you like). Psicarnum Infusion lets you expend your Psionic Focus to to treat one of your Incarnum feats as being at maximum capacity for 1 round. So you expend your Psicrystal's Psionic Focus on Psicarnum Infusion to treat Midnight Augmentation as being full; then you expend your Psionic Focus to discount Bestow Power significantly when you manifest it on yourself (increasing your power point pool). Then you re-establish both your focus, and your psicrystal's focus.

There's probably more, that's just the three I know about. Method 1 requires a racial pick (requirements for the feats), two feats, and an external item that can be destroyed/stolen. Method 2 requires one feat (Leadership), a high level power pick (Affinity field), and can be stopped by killing your Cohort. Method 3 requires five feats, and can be stopped by destroying your Psicrystal.

Noodles2375
2010-11-23, 09:40 AM
@JaronK,

Is any class feature that doesn't list its type (as in Sp,Su,Ex) considered to be an extraordinary ability? If that is true, there is so much cherry picking to be done.

@Jack_Smith
Thanks for the info on the recharging! I'll have to run those by the DM to see if he is ok with them. It doesn't exactly seem like the most broken things I could be doing at 20th level, since by RAW I could just plane shift to my Genesis'd demi-plane with alternate time flow characteristics and recharge that way anyway.

Any thoughts on the spell selection for arcane dilettante? Are all-day buffs the way to go with that?

Psyren
2010-11-23, 09:56 AM
Since you're probably the party loremaster anyway, I would go with Seer as your discipline. Want to find anything, ever, and totally unravel the DM's plot? Say hello to Give Us A Hint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm) and I See You. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metafaculty.htm)


@JaronK,

Is any class feature that doesn't list its type (as in Sp,Su,Ex) considered to be an extraordinary ability? If that is true, there is so much cherry picking to be done.

Typless abilities are "innate" IIRC.


@Jack_Smith
Thanks for the info on the recharging! I'll have to run those by the DM to see if he is ok with them. It doesn't exactly seem like the most broken things I could be doing at 20th level, since by RAW I could just plane shift to my Genesis'd demi-plane with alternate time flow characteristics and recharge that way anyway.

This is why I retire 20th-level characters :smalltongue:

Urpriest
2010-11-23, 11:56 AM
@JaronK,

Is any class feature that doesn't list its type (as in Sp,Su,Ex) considered to be an extraordinary ability? If that is true, there is so much cherry picking to be done.

@Jack_Smith
Thanks for the info on the recharging! I'll have to run those by the DM to see if he is ok with them. It doesn't exactly seem like the most broken things I could be doing at 20th level, since by RAW I could just plane shift to my Genesis'd demi-plane with alternate time flow characteristics and recharge that way anyway.

Any thoughts on the spell selection for arcane dilettante? Are all-day buffs the way to go with that?

Minor nitpick: the psionic version of Genesis specifies that you can't mess with the time trait. Remember kids, psionics is the broken one!

Fouredged Sword
2010-11-23, 12:30 PM
Ignore SR and PR. As a factotum you can allow any spell or power you cast to ignore it due to transparency.

erikun
2010-11-23, 05:43 PM
If you will be playing with Metapsionics, then Psionic Meditation and Psicrystal Affinity + Psicrystal Containment become very important. Overchannel is also very nice, especially as you can use Vigor to absorb the damage.

You're going to be pressed for feats, especially if you take Font of Inspiration several times. You'll want to work out what is necessary and what isn't in the feat department.

Jack_Simth
2010-11-23, 05:56 PM
@Jack_Smith
Thanks for the info on the recharging! I'll have to run those by the DM to see if he is ok with them. It doesn't exactly seem like the most broken things I could be doing at 20th level, since by RAW I could just plane shift to my Genesis'd demi-plane with alternate time flow characteristics and recharge that way anyway.
Ah... if you're combining Cunning Surge (extra actions) with plain-old Psionic Blasting under normal circumstances, then you go Nova and are basically useless for the other three encounters in the day (as you burned through your power points FAST if you did that), which is a partial balancing mechanism. A recharge mechanism lets you go nova in *every* encounter. You can heal your compatriots with Empathic Transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicTransfer.htm), soaking their HP and ability damage, then fix yourself up with Body Adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bodyAdjustment.htm), Body Purification (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bodyPurification.htm), Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/restorationPsionic.htm) (Note: Egoists get the cleric role, others need to spend feats), and then refill your power points. Four standard actions in the first round of battle (one regular, three Cunning Surge - and that's without taking Font of Inspiration at all), that each deal 20d6+20 damage to an opponent (energy rays, using either Fire or Cold), mean an average of 360 damage. And that's once per encounter, and you're still a full Psion the rest of the time. If you add Font of Inspiration to that, that goes up (by about 90 per 3 additional inspiration points) - and if you keep the reserve points appropriate to your recharge mechanism (as low as 1 power point!), you fully recover in a few minutes after the encounter. It's... not a nice way to play.



Any thoughts on the spell selection for arcane dilettante? Are all-day buffs the way to go with that?
Normally, yes, that's one of the better ways; in your specific case, no, that's not what you want to do - you've got your Psion levels for that. What you want to do with Arcane Dilettante is to pick up effects that you can't easily get through your Psion levels - utility spells, mostly.

Psyren
2010-11-23, 06:28 PM
Normally, yes, that's one of the better ways; in your specific case, no, that's not what you want to do - you've got your Psion levels for that. What you want to do with Arcane Dilettante is to pick up effects that you can't easily get through your Psion levels - utility spells, mostly.

Invisibility for starters. Illusions in general really. :smalltongue:

JaronK
2010-11-23, 09:03 PM
@JaronK,

Is any class feature that doesn't list its type (as in Sp,Su,Ex) considered to be an extraordinary ability? If that is true, there is so much cherry picking to be done.

Not exactly. See the monster manual though, which is the default source for creature abilities. It does state that all special abilities are Sp, Su, or Ex (not Na, which only applies to abilities inherent to the form of the critter, like claw attacks on a creature that has claws naturally). Sp abilities are always listed as such IIRC, since they usually have to have a caster level, and Su abilities usually are. Which means generally unlabeled abilities are in fact Ex. PHB page 180 is another good reference to look at (though note the Monster Manual is considered the primary source, and thus trumps where conflicts occur). 180 clarifies that all abilities have an ability type (since anything that's not Ex, Sp, or Su must be Na).

The worst here is spell casting, which is indeed Ex (mentioned specifically in MMV, but this is deducible anyway from the fact that Sp and Su are defined by how they're not spells. Remember, the ability to cast spells isn't magical even if the spells themselves are, which is why you can cast and use Invoke Magic in an antimatter field... you wouldn't even have the class ability to cast and know spells at all in one otherwise).

Certainly, anything in the special abilities area that's not explicitly magical in some way is going to be Ex. Note that Alter Self gives you all Na abilities anyway if that's what you wanted. Either way the Factotum 19 ability is absolutely bonkers. Basically, look for any non magical ability that's a single ability (in the text) and have fun. But remember, popping up with "the spellcasting of a Sorcerer" is something you should only do after making sure your DM won't just throw the DMG at you in response. Also, remember that while the ability must be gained at level 15 or before, you get it as a 20th level character (if you're a level 20 Factotum), so yeah, it would be the spellcasting of a level 20 Sorcerer.

JaronK

Noodles2375
2010-11-23, 09:13 PM
Wow! That is actually completely bonkers.

As long as we're going down this rabbit hole, in the interest of seeing how far it goes, what would happen if I announced "Cunning Brilliance replicating Wizard Spellcasting"?

It seems like this trick would only work with spontaneous casters because even if you have the spell slots, you still haven't filled them with anything by prepping spells. But assuming it works for the spontaneous casters, I guess there is no explicit rule governing which spells (or powers I suppose?) that I know?

strider24seven
2010-11-23, 11:52 PM
For the record, Factotum and Psion are my two favorite classes in 3.5 and this is my favorite gestalt. I've seen both of these classes in action in and out of gestalt.

I suggest the following:

1) Despite what a lot of people will tell you, don't just load up on Font of Inspiration. It takes a lot of the fun out of the Psion side of the build. Psionics is pretty feat hungry too.

2) Take Psionic Mediation, Psicrystal Affinity, and Psicrystal Containment. These make Persistant Power and other feats that require you to maintain a psionic focus (like Earth Power, something most people forget) worthwhile.

3) Remember the action nova, as stated in the above posts. Manifest Temporal Acceleration if you need time. Manifest Schism and share it with your psicrystal. Use Control Body on yourself, then Solicit your psicrystal. Then, if you have metamorphic transfer, manifest metamorphosis and share it with your psicrystal, choosing choker as your form and something combat-tastic for your psicrystal. 12-headed cryohydra or bladerager troll makes it a combat beast. Congratulations, you now have 1 full-round physical action, 2 full-round mental actions, and a mental standard action for yourself and a full-round action for your psicrystal (your psicrystal's schism'd mind maintains the concentration on Control Body). And you likely have a round or two left in your Temporal Acceleration.

4) Other good buffs include vigor+share pain with your psicrystal, giving you nice tanking potential. Touchsight+Detect Hostile Intent foils just about every attempt to surprise you, especially if you use Transdimensional Power on Touchsight.

5) For Factota, fear and poison seriously rock. With fear, you can use the feat Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark with the Never Outnumbered skill trick with a reach weapon while large to cause any enemy within 20 feet to cower for a round, then remain shaken. Use your cunning surge for the demoralize and take a full round to unleash hell on your enemies. As for poison, you can use Minor Creation as a standard action as an SLA to create oodles of Black Lotus poison. Depending on your interpretation of the volume of one "dose," you could be dumping well over a thousand doses of Black Lotus on your foes at once!

6) For battlefield control, I recommend Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron. The latter has the benefit of being something you can use Fabricate on afterwards for money.

7) If Oriental Adventures is allowed, take at least one rank in Iaijutsu Focus, preferably more. Use Gnome Quickrazors to demolish your opponents in round one. This also lets you smash through objects quickly without using your power points.

Combat generally looks like this after your turn (if the enemy isn't dead yet):
-Most enemies are Cowering, and will be Shaken next turn (fear)
-Many enemies are either dead or crippled by Black Lotus
-Several enemies got hit with many d6's of damage from your Quickrazors
-Your psicrystal smashed your foes with its metamorphosis'd attacks
-You have set up battlefield control measured with your extra actions
-You can take another turn entirely on your enemy's turn if you have Anticipatory Strike.

JaronK
2010-11-24, 01:37 AM
Wow! That is actually completely bonkers.

As long as we're going down this rabbit hole, in the interest of seeing how far it goes, what would happen if I announced "Cunning Brilliance replicating Wizard Spellcasting"?

Nothing, because you didn't memorize any spells today and you need to meditate for an hour, and the ability doesn't last that long. Wizard bonus feats are actually worth considering, when comboed with spells from another class.

And yes, you get to pick your spells known immediately, which is part of why this is so absolutely nuts. Consider casting Shapechange. Turn into a Solar. Now you're a Cleric too, and the DM just throws all his books at your head. Or if you really want to be a Wizard, Shapechange into a Black Ethergaunt...

JaronK