The Moyen Lands [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Darklord Bright

2010-11-23, 02:32 AM

The Moyen Lands

Welcome, one and all, to my second attempt at a comic on these boards. The first, closed for reasons I'd rather not need to state, takes place several years before and on a separate continent to this one, though The Moyen Lands is set to take place in the same overall world as The Darklord's Echoes.

However, it is hardly more of the same. This comic will take place in the lands and cultures of the Moyenmen, a race of humanoids with pale green skin and fangs briefly touched upon in DLE, who were stated to have largely left to their homeland many years ago.

This comic shall be set in their homeland, far across the sea. It's artistic styles are heavily influenced by Asian styles, mixed with a healthy dose of words which are, for all intents and purposes, Fake French (since I'm mostly just shooting for that sound, but not actually trying to use French.)

Well, enough of these words - let the comic commence!

Welcome to the Moyen Lands.

First Strip:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8350/themoyenlands1.png

Further Strips:
Page 2 (http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6428/themoyenlands2.png)
Page 3 (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3476/themoyenlands3.png)
Page 4 (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2493/themoyenlands4.png)
Page 5 (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1325/themoyenlands5.png)
Page 6 (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6210/themoyenlands6.png)
Page 7 (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5702/themoyenlands7.png)
Page 8 (http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4781/themoyenlands8.png)
Page 9 (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4187/themoyenlands9.png)
Page 10 (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1303/themoyenlands10.png)

Green-Shirt Q

2010-11-27, 09:46 AM

Looks VERY promising. The art style looks amazing. I will keep reading. :smallsmile:

HalfTangible

2010-11-27, 10:11 AM

What he said. Minus the art style. Not that it ain't good, I just don't really care about art styles.

Mina Kobold

2010-11-27, 11:11 AM

Wonderful to see another comic from you, Bright my friend. And It does not look like it will disappoint us, in fact it looks very promising indeed.

Which is fake Gentleman English for: Great comic, Brightie boy! Looks awesome! :smalltongue:

Darklord Bright

2010-11-27, 02:43 PM

Man, bout time this thread popped up. I've been spending the past four days waiting with my buffer.

Page 3
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3476/themoyenlands3.png

CoffeeIncluded

2010-11-27, 02:48 PM

I wish I read your previous comic series (Though if this one takes place several years later, then how did the plot of The Darklord's Echoes affect the world that this is on?) but I will be watching this one with interest!

One criticism though: Many of the characters' movements and expressions look stiff and stilted.

Darklord Bright

2010-11-27, 02:54 PM

HalfTangible

2010-11-27, 04:37 PM

There's not a lot I can do about that, unfortunately. I do my best, but when you're working with joints and limbs instead of curvy wiggly lines, things tend to be a little like that.

However, I haven't had a chance to do any real action scenes yet, and apparently I'm okay at the positioning in those.

This is possibly because in a comic strip, the only limb positions we see are the ones that are stopped, none of the in-between stuff.

Darklord Bright

2010-11-28, 03:20 PM

Page 4
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2493/themoyenlands4.png

This isn't the sort of humor I usually go for, but it was too easy to pass up.

Maximum Zersk

2010-11-28, 06:51 PM

Page 4
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2493/themoyenlands4.png

This isn't the sort of humor I usually go for, but it was too easy to pass up.

Pfft.

Well, look's pretty interesting. I'll be watching this.

V'icternus

2010-11-29, 12:11 AM

The look on his face when he gets kicked. xD

Darklord Bright

2010-11-29, 02:26 PM

Page 5
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1325/themoyenlands5.png

BRC

2010-11-29, 03:09 PM

There was a new DLB comic? Started on my birthday of all things!
How was I not aware of this!
Looking great so far, I can't wait to see where this goes.

Mina Kobold

2010-11-29, 04:20 PM

It was your birthday BRC? Congratulations :smallsmile:

The comic's good too :smalltongue:

Can't wait for page 6, it looks like these guys will keep us entertained for much longer.

Hope mask-girl returns, she is awesome :smallbiggrin:

CrimsonAngel

2010-11-29, 04:32 PM

Wuchu talkin' 'bout DB? I recall you doing nutshots all the time. :smalltongue:

Mad Mask

2010-11-29, 04:46 PM

The main criticism I have with your comic is that you carry over the same perspective over and over each panel. Take a look at this random Superman comic (http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/files/2009/06/wednesday-comics-superman.jpg); notice how every panel has a different angle, a different view of the action.

While it is true that drawing different angle of a scene can be very time exhausting, I've found that simply including close-ups can achieve a similar result while allowing you to re-use the same templates every time. Look at this comic of mine (http://kinogo.com/victor/fi/comics/fi12.png); it's essentially two men talking to each other over a desk, but the boringness of the situation is alleviated by zooming the "camera" in and out on the characters' face and their surrounding objects.

This is possibly because in a comic strip, the only limb positions we see are the ones that are stopped, none of the in-between stuff.

I would suggest that it is because they are being drawn from a side perspective while the characters are drawn from a 3/4 view. The fact that the same templates are used every time for them probably doesn't help either.

On another note, Bright, if you need to translate something into French or make up French-sounding names, I'd be happy to help. :smallsmile:

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 12:11 AM

V'icternus

2010-11-30, 12:32 AM

In short, too much effort for puny returns. Zooming in, to me, is barely noticed unless it's used scarcely for special moments, and zooming out is the same way.

BRC

2010-11-30, 10:47 AM

You know, telling me this doesn't really help, since the comics I'm making are... quite ahead of the ones you're seeing. And I'm aware of the close-ups thing, it just makes the inkscape file lag like crazy and become near impossible to use while it bends under the detailed characters and the cut-off bits it's having to remember.
I use close-ups quite abit, and I don't have that problem. Then again, my character designs are a good deal simpler than yours, and my compy might be better.
One thing that might work is making each panel individually,as it's own image, then importing all the panel images into a single inkscape document, arranging them, and combining them into a single image. It would be tricky to do, and the repeated Import+Export process might hurt quality, but it could be doable (You would have to set up your panel layout ahead of time if you wanted to do different size/shape panels). I might try that when Hell Week is over, and I can get back to Reb|Rev

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 03:39 PM

I don't think I'm willing to lessen the quality just to have my 'camera' zoom in and out for no real reason. :smalltongue:

Page 6
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6210/themoyenlands6.png

CrimsonAngel

2010-11-30, 04:09 PM

Does protection from arrows work on bullets?

Mina Kobold

2010-11-30, 04:17 PM

Does protection from arrows work on bullets?

Maybe, try spending a decade learning that spell to find out.

Which of course makes magic more awesome anyway, since it lets bookworms like me look awesome just to spite people with guns :smalltongue:

BRC

2010-11-30, 04:19 PM

I don't think I'm willing to lessen the quality just to have my 'camera' zoom in and out for no real reason. :smalltongue:

But don't you know! ZOOMS=QUALITY
Zooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?

CrimsonAngel

2010-11-30, 04:20 PM

But don't you know! ZOOMS=QUALITY
Zooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?

i'm pretty sure everyone who read the comic saw it. :smallwink:

HalfTangible

2010-11-30, 04:20 PM

But don't you know! ZOOMS=QUALITY
Zooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?

Developing? We just got hit over the face with it. Then somebody poured something smelly and infectious into the wounds.

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 04:21 PM

Maybe, try spending a decade learning that spell to find out.

Which of course makes magic more awesome anyway, since it lets bookworms like me look awesome just to spite people with guns :smalltongue:
Depends how magic works in the Moyen Lands, doesn't it? :smallwink:

HalfTangible

2010-11-30, 04:23 PM

About the zooming... the main issue is that you have to crop a lot of objects, right?

What if you do that manually by deleting nodes?

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 04:23 PM

About the zooming... the main issue is that you have to crop a lot of objects, right?

What if you do that manually by deleting nodes?

Then it would take me 6 hours.

V'icternus

2010-11-30, 04:28 PM

The DuShalle girl is very cute. :smalltongue:

Or is that just me?

HalfTangible

2010-11-30, 04:49 PM

Then it would take me 6 hours.

... how many nodes do your characters HAVE?!

I mean, if you're gonna make a zoom in onto one character, it shouldn't take that long to delete nodes for just that one character >.>

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 04:51 PM

... how many nodes do your characters HAVE?!

I mean, if you're gonna make a zoom in onto one character, it shouldn't take that long to delete nodes for just that one character >.>

My characters are comprised of 13 objects, and that is only once everything has been drawn and they have been grouped. In order to remove all the nodes I'd have to take into account segments of the body which were positioned in such a way to render the node-removing method near impossible, as well as all the minor details to each body 'segment'.

BRC

2010-11-30, 04:56 PM

... how many nodes do your characters HAVE?!

I mean, if you're gonna make a zoom in onto one character, it shouldn't take that long to delete nodes for just that one character >.>
Judging from his character designs, lots.
Also, node deletion (I do it sometimes) is more than just saying "Delete these nodes", you have to make new ones at the edge of the panel, you have to make sure the node deletion didn't mess up any of your lines, zooming in and out means that things you liked at a certain size become bad, as details become imperceptible, or minor flaws in your design become prominent.
Inkscape likes to get slow when you zoom in on detailed stuff, and you would need to fix your nodes for each character, each panel, also the background, any props, ect ect. With the level of detail DLB uses, he dosn't really need to use zooms to make his comic more interesting provided he dosn't just have his characters stand stock still talking to each other all comic (This also makes creating multiple panels much faster. Node deletion means you can't use that panel as the basis for another one that is more zoomed out). I'm not surprised he's decided to prioritize output over zooming.

Mad Mask

2010-11-30, 06:18 PM

You know, telling me this doesn't really help, since the comics I'm making are... quite ahead of the ones you're seeing.

Unless you've already corrected the points I'm addressing (which doesn't seem to be the case here) I can't see how a buffer renders my advising you invalid. :smallconfused:

And I'm aware of the close-ups thing, it just makes the inkscape file lag like crazy and become near impossible to use while it bends under the detailed characters and the cut-off bits it's having to remember.

Does Inkscape have a "Rasterise" option? If not, you could simply drag your panels into Photoshop or the GIMP, and do all the work there. Clipping masks are incredibly easy to do in raster programs.

I assure you, close-ups will greatly improve the antithetical quality of your comics. :smallsmile:

I don't think I'm willing to lessen the quality just to have my 'camera' zoom in and out for no real reason. :smalltongue:

It is hardly "no reason". It's one of the most basic elements of sequential art and cinematography. Open a comic book and it'll immediately be evident.

V'icternus

2010-11-30, 06:28 PM

I assure you, close-ups will greatly improve the quality of your comics. :smallsmile:

Lies. :smalltongue:

Or, rather, I disagree.

Far too much work, for something I will hardly notice, does not seem like efficient comicry.

Very occasional close ups or zoom outs? Fine, it'll make the panel special. Doing it every panel? Heaps of work for something that's just... boring.

If it were easier to do, fine, then yes, I'd agree. But with the time and effort that would have to go into it, it's just not a reasonable compromise.

And even if it could be done with the push of a button, it would not "greatly improve the quality" of the comic. In the same way that Avatar wasn't a good movie simply because it looked pretty.

Darklord Bright

2010-11-30, 07:24 PM

Well, I'm sorry Mad, but I find the constant change in perspective kind of obnoxious. It's kinda like standing there holding down "Zoom in, zoom out" repeatedly whilst people are talking. It just looks like the cameraman is having an epileptic fit :smalltongue:. Sure, it works sometimes, but only for effect, and in a comic where the characters are using templates and I would have to totally redraw them every panel to get decent perspectives going, it's hardly something that is worth it for me.

I own several comic books, and they can make easy use of perspective changes because they are hand drawn. They are, in effect, a different but similar medium. That Superman page? Obviously the rapid change in perspectives is because he's being thrown about the page, not just for fun. Not only that, but Inkscape does not have a 'true' "Rasterize" and seems to lose quality when the current "Make bitmap copy" is used. Moving it into another program is equally if not more inefficient and quality-destroying.

I do not personally see the point of rapid changes in perspective in a vector-art based comic, or at all, really. It doesn't add anything for me, and though it may add things for others I don't feel like spending time on something I don't personally enjoy. I use things like close ups and wide shots when I feel they are needed, and only when I feel they are needed, else they are just pretty for pretty's sake and lose all effect when used excessively.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I disagree with your assessments and believe that I should be allowed to run the comic the way I enjoy to. That's really all there is to it. :smallsmile:

CrimsonAngel

2010-11-30, 07:26 PM

Make a border without a fill over the comic and overlap your panels like I do.

EDIT: To the nodes thing.

V'icternus

2010-11-30, 07:34 PM

Make a border without a fill over the comic and overlap your panels like I do.

EDIT: To the nodes thing.

Than can get very messy and only works if the comic is surrounded by other panels.

To do the zooming in well takes effort, and it's just not worth doing it all the time.

Just look at Mad's first post here, and the comic he used as an example.
There were maybe two instances of zooming that actually mattered, and even those weren't necessary, and certainly didn't render the actual conversation any more interesting.

When there is a one-off panel that needs a zoom? Perfect, that's worth the effort to make it look good and give you a new perspective. But when you're considering doing it every single panel, it just reeks of trying too hard. It does not increase the quality of the writing, the artwork or the story. It does not make the characters better in any way. In short, it adds nothing worth adding to the comic except pretentiousness.
I'd rather let Bright make the comic the way he wants to, and just enjoy it. Random perspective changes will not increase my enjoyment. If anything, it will lessen it. More time spent making the comic, more trouble making the comic, less likely that making the comic will remain fun, all for... something that is either unnoticeable, boring or annoying.

CrimsonAngel

2010-11-30, 08:12 PM

Not if you only export the border. :smallconfused:

Green-Shirt Q

2010-11-30, 10:34 PM

Right. Back to taking about what's happening in the comic...

Alright! Guns AND magic! This should be interesting. I've always wanted to see a setting (outside of JRPGs) that had both.

Lord Voldemort: Now it's time for you to suffer, Harry. Your magic is useless against my skill..."

Harry Potter: "How about THIS, MUTHA&%^! BOOM HEADSHOT!"

:smalltongue:

Darklord Bright

2010-12-01, 03:26 PM

Page 7
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5702/themoyenlands7.png

Mina Kobold

2010-12-02, 09:39 AM

*Only the sound of distant laughter is heard from Keveak's direction, it goes on for minutes on end*

V-very funny, keep up the-HAHAHA- good work, Br-r-HAHAHA-ightie :smallbiggrin:

HAHAHAHA!

blackjack217

2010-12-02, 10:29 AM

Nice.The only way to make it more awkward would have been to make her the bandit.

Darklord Bright

2010-12-02, 12:14 PM

Page 8

Story behind this one: I had hit writer's block that day, and had been sitting there unable to think of the next comic's dialogue.

So I didn't put any in it. Sorry if that bothers anybody, but the next couple make up for it.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4781/themoyenlands8.png

smuchmuch

2010-12-02, 07:14 PM

The lack of dialogue actualy works pretty well here. It conveys nicely the gist of the situation and the vague feeling of akwarness in it, particulary in a pannel 3.
Though it a little early to tell, storry look rather promising so far.

but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?

Tthe last pannel of the intoductory comic certainly seemed to hint in this direction. I kind of hope it will be more of a background thing, rather than the actual main focus of the plot, though.

@DL bright.

If you'll allow me two small critiques

Art, body proportions, wise, you should consider making the legs a little longer compared to torso, slightlywidder at the top and steming closer from each other.

'Moyen land' kinda sound terrible, too. is that supposed to somme 'moyen age' based barbarism ?

Lord Raziere

2010-12-02, 07:23 PM

but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?

you guys and your silly "Magic Vs Tech" :smallamused:

I find the best settings I design are ones where magic and technology work together and make crazy stuff happen from the union.

HalfTangible

2010-12-02, 07:42 PM

you guys and your silly "Magic Vs Tech" :smallamused:

I find the best settings I design are ones where magic and technology work together and make crazy stuff happen from the union.

Well yeah but a magic x tech universe establishes a very clear conflict. It's not the best way to do so but it IS one way.

(The best way is to make it everybody's fault that it's still going on)

Darklord Bright

2010-12-02, 10:51 PM

Art, body proportions, wise, you should consider making the legs a little longer compared to torso, slightlywidder at the top and steming closer from each other.

'Moyen land' kinda sound terrible, too. is that supposed to somme 'moyen age' based barbarism ?

They already have average human proportions, if slightly stylised. I based them on actual human bodies. All differences between real humans and these templates are entirely intentional stylistic choices. Trust me, this appearance alone went through three iterations before it was finally settled as what I was using.

On the name, it is because the race was, in my previous comic, already called the Moyens. Moyen roughly means "Middle" in French, (but that was just me wanting the name to mean something in French) and obviously the Land where the Moyens come from is called the Moyen Lands at least by some. If you don't like the name, I'm sorry but it's not changing.

--

Aside from that, I never intended a magic vs. tech angle. DuShalle just thinks magic is inferior to his guns he's mass-producing, because his guns seem ruthlessly efficient and easy to learn compared to magic. Tech is only just beginning to become a serious practice after years of magical domination, so of course it's going to be met with some resistance. That's just the way people are. It's not a central conflict, and the opening comic did not imply a "Magic vs Tech" outlook either - it merely was trying to get across an "Out with the old order, chivalry is dead" angle since times were changing and knights can be shot dead even with platemail now.

blackjack217

2010-12-03, 12:46 AM

so Moyen lands = middle earth?

smuchmuch

2010-12-03, 11:21 AM

so Moyen lands = middle earth?

No the accepted translation for that is 'terre du Milieu'

From what i understand of the context explained abover and the way it seemed to be used here, the 'Moyens'' and Moyen' land' would tranlate more accurately as the 'Average ones' and the 'Average's country'.

I'm going to assume there's either an interesting storry behind that name or these peoples have a serious lack of self esteem about themselves.

HalfTangible

2010-12-03, 11:50 AM

No the accepted translation for that is 'terre du Milieu'

From what i understand of the context explained abover and the way it seemed to be used here, the 'Moyens'' and Moyen' land' would tranlate more accurately as the 'Average ones' and the 'Average's country'.

I'm going to assume there's either an interesting storry behind that name or these peoples have a serious lack of self esteem about themselves.

I think he was joking :p

blackjack217

2010-12-03, 12:31 PM

Half and half. I knew it was not a translation, if only because land is an English word. So I thought the name meant "middle lands" which could reasonably be a reference to middle earth. I never thought it was a translation. I was asking if it was a reference.

Darklord Bright

2010-12-03, 04:25 PM

It doesn't mean anything, it's the name of the race. The land they live is therefore the land of their race, and it's not changing, as I've already stated. Why is this so hard to accept? Move on, please, people.

As I note, I've also stated that they're not actually French, and I'm just getting vaguely French-sounding names and words half the time, so the title literally means nothing more than it would if I had called it, say, "The Elven Lands".

Page 9

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4187/themoyenlands9.png

HalfTangible

2010-12-03, 04:36 PM

I'd bet that DuShalle is going to attack soon, but i'd feel bad for stealing money from whoever actually took the bet :smalltongue:

BRC

2010-12-03, 04:58 PM

Reputation won't make you bulletproof DeLanan.

So it's less "Magic vs Tech" and more "Old vs New" in general, which is something I like.
Come to think of it, DuShalle has multiple reasons to attack DeLanan. From the way he acted earlier, I'm willing to bet that DeLanan is a skilled spell caster, he's certainly very proud of his magic.
If DuShalle's purpose is to find a market for the guns he's making, he needs to prove to the other houses that they are worthwhile, so he approaches Lord DeLanan with the offer first.
If DeLanan says yes, then DuShalle says "Hey, You know these things are good, even Lord Delanan wants them, and we all know how confident he is in his magic".
If DeLanan says No, DuShalle attacks, using musketeers to defeat House DeLanan's spell casters. Then he says "Even the fame spellcasters of House DeLanan couldn't stand against my new weapons, don't you want to be on my side?"

Mina Kobold

2010-12-04, 10:01 AM

It doesn't mean anything, it's the name of the race. The land they live is therefore the land of their race, and it's not changing, as I've already stated. Why is this so hard to accept? Move on, please, people.

But we love epileptic trees and crazy speculations about the hidden meaning of stuff, it's even on our business cards :smallbiggrin:

By the way, am I the only that keep reading Delanan as DeLorean? :smalltongue: