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View Full Version : [3.5] New Feats for Fighters [PEACH]



Adamantrue
2010-11-26, 06:26 AM
Objective: Desiring to help Fighters stay viable, but still keep the mundane (non-magical) feel of the Class. Choosing to try and do so through the use of his Weapons and his familiarity with them...

Improved Weapon Proficiency [General]
You have an impressive aptitude with your chosen weapon.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +9, Greater Weapon Focus with the selected weapon.
Benefit: If you are wielding a version of the chosen weapon of at least masterwork quality, you are treated as being 1 size category larger for the purpose of damage dice and special combat maneuvers involving the chosen weapon (for example, disarm attempts with or against it).
This does not change your reach with the weapon, or the manner with which it is wielded (a light weapon still cannot be used with Power Attack, and still can be used with Weapon Finesse).
Special: A fighter may select Improved Weapon Proficiency as one of his bonus feats.

Powerful Blow [General]
Armor merely slows the momentum of your strikes.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +10, Greater Weapon Focus with the selected melee weapon, Melee Weapon Mastery of the selected weapon’s type, Power Attack, Weapon Specialization with the selected melee weapon. Base Attack Bonus +6, Power Attack, Weapon Specialization with the selected melee weapon.
Benefit: When making a melee attack with the chosen weapon and using Power Attack with at least a -2 penalty, you may choose to make the attack a Power Blow. This decision must be made before the attack roll.
A Power Blow is made against a targets touch AC, but only deals half damage (rounding down).
You can normally use this feat once per round during your attack action. However, if you have or later gain Greater Weapon Focus for the chosen weapon, you may choose to make all of your attacks Powerful Blows.
Special: A fighter may select Powerful Blow as one of his bonus feats. Armor merely slows the momentum of your strikes.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Power Attack, Weapon Specialization with the selected melee weapon.
Benefit: When making a melee attack with the chosen weapon and using Power Attack with at least a -2 penalty, you may choose to make the attack a Power Blow. This decision must be made before the attack roll.
A Power Blow is made against a targets touch AC, but only deals half damage (rounding down).
You can normally use this feat once per round during your attack action. However, if you have or later gain Greater Weapon Focus for the chosen weapon, you may choose to make all of your attacks Powerful Blows.
Special: A fighter may select Powerful Blow as one of his bonus feats.

Practiced Parry [General]
Experience has taught you how to avoid and parry blows.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Dex 13, Int 13, Weapon Focus with the selected melee weapon.
Benefit: When wielding the chosen weapon, this feat grants two abilities that mirror or enhance feats.
Dodge: During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent, as with the Dodge feat. If you also possess the Dodge feat, you may choose the same opponent, or a different one, with any action.
Combat Expertise: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus, as with the Combat Expertise feat. If you also possess the Combat Expertise feat, you may combine these effects, with a new maximum of –10 to your attack roll and +10 to your Armor Class. You still may not exceed your base attack bonus.
Special: For the purposes of qualifying for feats or prestige classes, Practiced Parry counts as both Combat Expertise and Dodge.
A fighter may select Practiced Parry as one of his bonus feats.

Spell Strike [General]
Experience and study has taught you special techniques to interrupt spells.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +9, Spellcraft 6 ranks, Greater Weapon Focus with the selected melee weapon. Base Attack Bonus +5, Spellcraft 4 ranks, Weapon Specialization with the selected melee weapon.
Benefit: You may use a magic version of the selected melee weapon to counter the portion of a spell that would affect you, by utilizing or disrupting the energies that make it manifest with your weapon’s innate power. You must be able to make an attack of opportunity this round to use this feat, and doing so counts as one attempt.
You must identify the spell being cast with a successful Spellcraft check. If the spell is susceptible to spell resistance, you may make a melee attack roll with a magic weapon. The result of this roll is treated as your spell resistance against the target spell only.
If you can make more than one attack of opportunity each round (such as with Combat Reflexes), you may still only make one Spell Strike attempt per spell.
Making a Spell Strike prevents any existing spell resistance you may possess from another source from affecting the targeted spell.
Special: A fighter may select Spell Strike as one of his bonus feats. Experience and study has taught you special techniques to interrupt spells.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +5, Spellcraft 4 ranks, Weapon Specialization with the selected melee weapon.
Benefit: You may use a magic version of the selected melee weapon to counter the portion of a spell that would affect you, by utilizing or disrupting the energies that make it manifest with your weapon’s innate power. You must be able to make an attack of opportunity this round to use this feat, and doing so counts as one attempt.
You must identify the spell being cast with a successful Spellcraft check. If the spell is susceptible to spell resistance, you may make a melee attack roll with a magic weapon. The result of this roll is treated as your spell resistance against the target spell only.
If you can make more than one attack of opportunity each round (such as with Combat Reflexes), you may still only make one Spell Strike attempt per spell.
Making a Spell Strike prevents any existing spell resistance you may possess from another source from affecting the targeted spell.
Special: A fighter may select Spell Strike as one of his bonus feats.

The two I'd expect people to have the most problems with are Practiced Parry & Spell Strike.

Practiced Parry was inspired by Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU), but I decided I also wanted to let it stack. I increased the Prerequisites, and made it only apply when using a specific weapon to limit it, but I know those aren't really that limiting. Still, I don't know if its really that potent with the ability to stack, or even whether or not it isn't a level appropriate kind of potent.

Spell Strike I'm having a hard time wording. The general image in my mind when it started was wanting a hero splitting an incoming fireball in two using his enchanted blade. It keeps the man himself grounded in reality, but lets him wield magic in his weapons (in a brutish way) to face spellcasters. I set the prerequisite to match the level Casters get Dispel Magic, and deliberately tied it to AoO in order to let it work with Combat Reflexes for multiple uses in round.

What kind of work needs to be done with these? And what do people think of the concept?

gkathellar
2010-11-26, 07:02 AM
Fighters aren't going to be made viable through feats. That said:

Improved Weapon Proficiency - I guess this isn't completely awful. The fighter has plenty of numbers already, but I guess there's nothing implicitly wrong with giving another way to get them.

Powerful Blow - This is actually pretty okay! Except for the Weapon Focus tree feat tax in front of it. That's ... three moderately terrible feats to get this one?

Practiced Parry - The dodge component isn't worth mentioning, since dodge is terrible and this doesn't really change that. So ... I get combat expertise with only one weapon and I have to waste a feat on Weapon Focus? Couldn't I just take Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise and save a feat?

Spell Strike - I'm still puzzling over this one, but I think it might be pretty good! Except for the part where you have to take Weapon Focus.

Here's a song about why WF is a trap:

Knowledge devotion, knowledge devotion,
Does whatever a knowledge devotion can,
Can it swing from a web?
Of course it can, it's knowledge devotion!
Look out!
Here comes the knowledge devotion!

Orzel
2010-11-26, 07:39 AM
Seems fair.


Improved Weapon Proficiency comes too late. It's too weak at level 9.

Powerful Blow is not worth the feat tax for what it does. It's only good for a fighter's iterative attacks. the ones that attack can miss. But you limit it to one and for half damage. Unless I am missing something.

Practiced Parry is decent if you need to get a prc or some tax heavy feat.

Spell Strike is great if not also so late and GWF. I created a feat similar.

Adamantrue
2010-11-26, 08:14 AM
Improved Weapon Proficiency paired with Improved Trip (with an appropriate Weapon), with an Enlarge Person involved, seemed pretty potent to me, so I couldn't see that necessarily coming any sooner. I'm also worried about a few other combat maneuvers, such as Disarms & Grapples (Pincer Staff).

If you think I can ease up on the Prerequisites with that one, around what level would that become more appropriate?

Powerful Blow...I didn't think Greater Weapon Focus would be a problem with these, since its a prerequisite for many of the one I have in mind (including some that would be nice for a TWF Build). I also was concerned about an AoO build using it along with Overpowering Attack at level 16, or a Spring Attack build at a much lower level that included something like Brutal Strike.

Practiced Parry was really about exploring multiple trees as you get higher in level, helping to speed up the process. You could just take Combat Expertise & Improved Combat Expertise, but that slows down your ability to get goodies like Karmic Strike or Defensive Throw. I was concerned that it was too potent, not expecting anyone to treat it as underwhelming.

Spell Strike...again, I thought keying this to Greater Weapon Focus would be minimized with it being a prerequisite to so many of these, but I thought keying it to 9th level was appropriate, as its when a Wizard would get Dispel Magic (its closest analog). How early should a Fighter get access to something like this?

Oh...and thanks for the input.

gkathellar
2010-11-26, 08:33 AM
The problem with Greater Weapon Focus, and every other feat in the Weapon Focus tree, is that it's absolutely terrible. If you really want bigger numbers, take Knowledge Devotion.

Two things you're wrong about:

1. Practiced Parry doesn't accelerate your access to any feats. I could just take Combat Expertise and Dodge and fulfill the same prerequisites for the same number of feats at an earlier level and get identical benefits. Then, I could either spend two more feats getting practiced parry ... or I could take things that would actually provide some kind of genuine mathematical benefit.

2. Dispel Magic is a 3rd level spell. Wizards get it at level 5.

Orzel
2010-11-26, 08:38 AM
1. Practiced Parry doesn't accelerate your access to any feats. I could just take Combat Expertise and Dodge and fulfill the same prerequisites for the same number of feats at an earlier level and get identical benefits. Then, I could either spend two more feats getting practiced parry ... or I could take things that would actually provide some kind of genuine mathematical benefit.


It does give you WF, Dodge, and Combat Expertise for 2 feats. But they are barely worth one feat.

Adamantrue
2010-11-26, 08:46 AM
I wonder what spell I was thinking of? Well, I can reduce that one down to Weapon Specialization then, with a BAB of +5.

Weapon Focus isn't bad for certain builds, such as Two-Weapon Fighting when the set matches. I could see a progression for a Fighter that goes Quick Draw (Human), Two-Weapon Fighting (1st), Improved Buckler Defense (1st), Weapon Focus (Daggers) (2nd), Point Blank Shot (3rd), Weapon Specialization (4th), Practiced Parry (6th), and Deadly Defense (6th).

Not hyper-optimized, but it seems fairly within reason.

[edit]

Fixed Spell Strike. I was also thinking...

If I required Weapon Specialization for Powerful Blow, but added that if you also possess or later gain Greater Weapon Focus, each attack you make can be a Powerful Blow, would that fix things more? Also, what level would you set it at?

[edit 2]

Greatsword-based Powerful Blow with Combat Brute: Assuming level 6, being able to Power Attack for 6 against a Touch AC, 18 points of damage cut in half (9, not including Weapon Damage rolls or other modifiers). Takes 2 rds to set up. Not that big a deal, though if a Full Attack is involved it could result in another hit, but lets them hit you back.

Lance-based Powerful Blow with Spirited Charge: Assuming level 6, being able to Power Attack for 6 against a Touch AC, 36 points of damage cut in half (18, not including Weapon Damage rolls or other modifiers). Takes 1 rd to set up, and you likely won't receive a full-attack in return. That's fairly impressive, perhaps too much for level 6.

Hmm...that's like a fairly reliable +d6/level each round. That seems to be pretty potent, so I'm a little concerned.

Adamantrue
2010-11-27, 01:01 PM
I updated Powerful Blow and Spell Strike (the original versions are listed in the Spoilers), and by eyeballing them I think they are OK.

I actually made a specific point to compare Powerful Blow to the Paladin spell Find the Gap, and I think that the current form especially (with the new boost if you take Greater Weapon Focus) is in a level-appropriate spot.

Practiced Parry seems to be considered too weak as-is, so I like it as it stands. It is actually a pretty big help for several unconventional builds.

So...that leaves Improved Weapon Proficiency. As is, it would stack with Improved Disarm/Trip/Sunder/etc and with Enlarge Person (and Powerful Build, for Goliaths), for some truly ridiculous bonuses to those checks even before factoring in Bull's Strength and such. That may not be a bad thing, but it isn't something I'd want to let happen early, and don't want to let just anybody pick it up by splashing in 4 levels of Fighter.