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Tao Jones
2010-11-29, 05:39 PM
Hey all! I've decided to post up an idea that has been swimming around in my head for a while. In this variant, the players are not only heroes, but demigods, or at least carriers of the divine spark which all deities possess, manifested in one way or another.

Be warned, these abilities are meant to be free upgrades to characters. Please critique their power balance relative to each other rather than existing benchmarks, as most of them are more powerful than Epic Destiny features. This whole thing stemmed from an issue I have regarding 4e, which is that while the PCs are all heroic, it's very hard for anyone to stand out amongst each other, unless they are meticulously optimized for a single niche (DPR novas and stunlocking being primary examples). My problem is that all of this optimizing leads to everyone seeing the same characters again and again under different names. Peruse the Wizards CO boards and you'll see what I mean.

My intent is to give players a niche optimization of their choice right out of the gate that will make them unique, and remain a useful focus throughout their whole career. My hope is that they will allow players more freedom to create the characters they want to roleplay without compromising mechanics. So, without further rambling, here are Divine Sparks. Enjoy, PEACH, and feel free to suggest new ones!


Divine Spark Variant

During character creation, each player may select one Divine Spark for their character. All decisions are subject to DM approval.
You may select your Divine Spark benefit from the following list:

Legendary Ability
Increase one ability score of your choice by 2, and by 2 again at 11th and 21st level. Alternatively, increase each of your ability scores by 2.

Legendary Skill
You become trained in two additional skills from any class list, and you gain a +3 bonus to all skill checks. When you succeed on a skill check during a skill challenge, it counts as two successes.

Legendary Endurance
Increase your maximum hit point total by 30, and you gain two additional healing surges. You can use your second wind as a move action. If you can already use your second wind as a minor action, you can instead use it as a free action.

Legendary Speed
You gain a +2 bonus to your speed, and a +2 bonus to all defenses. Whenever you shift, you may shift an additional square.

Legendary Reflexes
You gain a +10 bonus to initiative checks, and you cannot be surprised. When making opportunity attacks, you can use an At-Will attack power rather than making a basic attack.

Impervious Mettle
You gain resist 2 to all damage. This value increases to 5 at 11th level and 8 at 21st level, and stacks with any resist damage value you gain from other sources. You gain a +2 bonus to all saving throws.

Legendary Power
Choose a utility power of 10th level or lower from your class, or a skill power of 6th level or lower. You gain that power. You must meet all prerequisites for that power in order to select it. At 11th level, you can retrain this to a class utility power of 16th level, or a skill power of 10th level. At 21st level, you can retrain this to a class utility power of 22nd level, or a skill power of 16th level.

Feats of Legend
You gain two additional bonus feats for which you meet the prerequisites. For the purposes of meeting feat prerequisites, treat each of your ability scores as if they were 2 higher than normal. You can retrain an additional feat each level.

Legendary Blaster
You can add 2 to the size of any blast or wall, or 1 to the size of any burst for any power that you use. Increase this to 3 for blasts and walls, and 2 for bursts, at 16th level. Whenever you use a blast, wall, or burst power, you can choose not to target one square within the effect.

Legendary Healer
Whenever you grant healing with one of your powers, the targets also gain temporary hit points equal to the ability modifier of your choice. In addition, allies adjacent to you gain regeneration 2 while bloodied. This value increases to 5 at 11th level and 8 at 21st level, and stacks with any regeneration gained from other sources.

Born Paragon
You gain all of the path features (but none of the powers) of a single paragon path of your choice in addition to your normal paragon path. You must meet all prerequisites for that path in order to select it. You gain the path's 11th-level feature at 1st level, its 12th-level feature at 2nd level, and its 16th-level feature at 6th level.

gkathellar
2010-11-29, 06:16 PM
My 4E-fu is a little rusty, but here goes.


Legendary Ability
Increase one ability score of your choice by 6. Alternatively, increase each of your ability scores by 2.

No one is ever going to take the second option. Getting +3 to your primary attack stat modifier is just so much better by comparison.


Legendary Skill
You become trained in an additional skill from any class list, and you gain a +2 bonus to all skill checks. When you succeed on a skill check during a skill challenge, it counts as two successes.

This isn't at the level of Legendary Ability. One trained skill? I can take a feat for that. +2 to all skill checks and easier skill challenges? I guess that's okay, but I'll be over there optimizing to-hit and damage and one of my defenses.


Legendary Endurance
Increase your maximum hit point total by 30, and you gain two additional healing surges. You can use your second wind as a move action.

Good as compared to Legendary Ability, but less useful for races who can second wind as a minor action (dwarves), which is weird because they're supposed to be super tough. Make it even better for them.


Legendary Speed
You gain a +2 bonus to your speed, and a +4 bonus to all defenses against opportunity and immediate attacks. Whenever you shift, you may shift an additional square.

Same problem as Legendary Skill: not enough gun.


Legendary Reflexes
You gain a +10 bonus to initiative checks, and you cannot be surprised. When making opportunity attacks, you can use an At-Will attack power rather than making a basic attack.

Almost as good as Legendary Ability. Initiative is really important, maybe even as good. The opportunity attacks thing should improve for characters with Heavy Blade whatever-that-one-is.


Impervious Mettle
You gain resist 2 to all damage. This value increases to 5 at 11th level and 8 at 21st level, and stacks with any resist damage value you gain from other sources. You gain a +2 bonus to all saving throws.

Make the resistance 5/10/15. Negating 2 points of damage per hit is not worth losing out on Legendary Ability's massive goodie bag.


Legendary Power
Choose a utility power of 22nd level or lower from your class, or a skill power of 16th level or lower. You gain that power. You must meet all prerequisites for that power in order to select it.

That's theoretically crazy good at low levels, but by high levels it's kind of meh. Make it scale.


Feats of Legend
You gain two additional bonus feats for which you meet the prerequisites. For the purposes of meeting feat prerequisites, treat each of your ability scores as if they were 2 higher than normal. You can retrain an additional feat each level.

Name is clever, have a cookie. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_53oMB4-fxXM/SVZZdJntnPI/AAAAAAAAAAM/vXEtrdBFtqI/s1600-R/cookie.gif)

The effectively increased scores thing is really good for optimization, but then, actually increased scores doesn't match up to +6 to one ability score. Make it 3 feats.


Legendary Blaster
You can add 2 to the size of any blast or wall, or 1 to the size of any burst for any power that you use. Whenever you use a blast, wall, or burst power, you can choose not to target one square within the effect.

Way, way too weak. Extra AoE on your AoE is nowhere near what some of these others can do.


Legendary Healer
Whenever you grant healing with one of your powers, the targets also gain temporary hit points equal to the ability modifier of your choice. In addition, allies adjacent to you gain regeneration 2 while bloodied. This value increases to 5 at 11th level and 8 at 21st level, and stacks with any regeneration gained from other sources.

Wow. This might actually be the best one on this list. Go Leaders.


Born Paragon
You gain all of the path features (but none of the powers) of a single paragon path of your choice in addition to your normal paragon path. You must meet all prerequisites for that path in order to select it. You ignore level benchmarks for the purposes of this benefit, gaining all of the path features immediately.

Oh, nope, this is the best one. That is crazy good. Can it at least scale, in some capacity? Because as is this is mildly insane, and with optimization it's actually totally nuts. Off the top of my head, you could use the Spellscarred PP to get a 19th level power at 1st level. Because that's a path feature, not a listed power.

Tao Jones
2010-11-30, 03:22 PM
I guess I underestimated how single-minded people are about their primary attack stat? My hope was that the other potential benefits would alter play in fundamental ways so that people wouldn't have to cling to conventional CO wisdom. If you read the last section before the mechanics, you'll see this is intended to both allow for extreme focus and open up less optimized builds that are otherwise not viable because of how narrow the window of effectiveness is for characters in 4E. By your same logic, why would anyone currently want to be anything but an Avenger?

I think I might spread out the +6 over the three tiers (+2 at 1st level, +2 at 11th, +2 at 21st, all to the same score). The alternative I would keep the same.

I don't agree that Legendary Blaster is so severely UP, I think many mages would jump at the chance to almost double all their areas of effect, especially coupled with Enlarge Spell.

I suppose Legendary Skill could give training in a second skill.

You're right about Legendary Endurance's second wind, I'll probably add something like "if you can normally second wind as a minor action, you may do so as a free action instead."

It might sound strange, but I don't want these benefits to make any racial features redundant. Raising Impervious Mettle as you mention would do just that, and also make it severely outclass Legendary Endurance. On the same vein, I'll probably change the latter ability of Legendary Healer.

I'm okay with feats becoming redundant, hence Heavy Blade Opportunity as you've pointed out.

The Spellscarred thing is the biggest chink I think, but it does say "subject to DM approval", so that would probably be disallowed in most cases. Besides, not many games I've seen use Spellscarred. I will also probably rule that you gain the features at 1st, 2nd, and 6th level rather than all at once.

Tao Jones
2010-11-30, 03:34 PM
Okay, I made a few changes. Notably, I made Legendary Ability scale and brought up the power level of a few others.

Mando Knight
2010-11-30, 06:47 PM
I guess I underestimated how single-minded people are about their primary attack stat?

It's +1/2/3 to attack, damage, one defense, and some other significant abilities (such as the Cleric's Healing Lore). That means your accuracy increases by a flat 5/10/15%, the damage you deal when you hit increases by 1/2/3, etc. It's the same as having Weapon/Implement Focus/Expertise (All) and one of Iron Will, Great Fortitude, or Lightning Reflexes all as untyped bonuses, making them stack with the actual Weapon/Implement Focus/Expertise and Iron Will/Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes feats. If it's Dex or Int, or the class has their chosen stat added to AC, it's also getting a free +1/2/3 to AC.

Avengers are also fairly low-grade Strikers unless something changed significantly since the last time I checked. Rangers, on the other hand, are the top-tier Strikers. Giving archery Rangers 3 higher AC and Attack (as well as potential for +3 to damage, when using most attacks other than Twin Strike) only makes them better... in fact, their buffed AC is now about as good as the Defender's.

That said, Born Paragon unleashes cheese otherwise unknown to the peoples. For example, a Tempest Fighter can now have both Pit Fighter and Shock Trooper at the same time, adding Wis to all damage rolls and Dex to one damage roll per round, and additionally increase the size of all off-hand damage dice by 1. Or you could select a multiclass feat at first level to qualify for the multiclass paragon path of your choice (there are PPs that CharOp decides are good enough to MC into another class, even if it's not using your primary ability, just because the features are that synergistic.) Shock Trooper Daggermaster Brutal Scoundrel, anyone? Also, Paragon Power Points, aka "Hey, look, psionic class! Make another encounter-level attack each encounter! It's not a power, it's a feature!"

Shadow_Elf
2010-11-30, 10:58 PM
I think you aren't giving your players enough credit. I know from personal experience that it is extremely difficult to make a useless char in 4e, unless you dump your primary, but at that point, you are trying to suck, so it does not count. Your players aren't necessarily going to optimize the hell out of things as-is, and in 4e, those who do won't really great overshadow those who do not. The reason you repeatedly see the same builds on CharOp and its all about DPR? Its because its CharOp, and that is what that forum is for. No one plays those builds - they're thought exercises, mostly.

By giving this to your players, however, you're basically flashing a big sign in their face saying "Optimize! Optimize! Here, have free stuff!". I would give them a chance to make the chars they want to make before you decide that 4e is so CharOp-focused that it needs houserules to power up the characters.

Tao Jones
2010-12-01, 11:56 AM
So, basically I'm the only one who thinks this could be a cool thing to add to a campaign. Thanks, guys.