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View Full Version : Seeking advice on 3.5 1/2 Orc Transmuter



Bison
2010-11-29, 06:28 PM
So I'm starting a new campaign, and I have been itching to play a Melee/Arcane brute type character for some time, and since the DM seemed eager to see me play a Half-Orc Wizard, I thought the time was right to try my hand at a Transmuter.

My stat rolls were 17,16,15,13,13,11 Pretty solid, solid enough that I thought I could give this Half-Orc thing a try. after racial modifiers I settled on

Str 18, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 11.

Basically I want this character to augment his body with his transmutations, then wade in with the fighter types and beat up on things with a big 2-H weapon.

Eventually I plan for him to go Eldrich Knight for the added BAB and better Hit Die to go along with a mostly full spell progression (giving up a total of two caster levels), picking up a level of Ranger along the way to meet the martial weapon proficiency requirement.

The challenge I am having is making this character survivable. sure he can cast mage armor and shield, but his low dex will make his AC lag behind at almost all levels. His Con is good but not great.

He gave up Illusion and Enchantement as his opposition schools (not much to miss there for him, but I do wish I had access to Mirror Image)

1st level feat is Toughness,

pretty much anything 3.5 is open, and possibly some pathfinder material to be converted as well (not 100% about that though)

Ideally I am hoping the DM will allow me to take the pathfinder feats that lower arcane spell failure and eventually get him into light or medium armor, but failing that any ideas of how to make this character a bit more surviavable in combat would be appreciated.

Runestar
2010-11-29, 08:03 PM
First off, consider the focused specialist variant in CM (complete mage).

At 3rd lv, you can use alter self to assume more combat-worthy forms, such as troglodytes. You have the physical stats to pull this off apparently.

At lv5+, there are some polymorph-subschool line of spells in PHB2 and CM which you can use. Which kinda wastes your good stats, but they are fun. :smallsmile:

Complete arcane has master transmogrifist, if you want to be more focused around polymorph.

Forget eldritch knight, the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) probably suits your needs better.

There is also a grappling wizard build you can consider.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6702.10;wap2

Bison
2010-11-30, 10:22 AM
First off, consider the focused specialist variant in CM (complete mage).

At 3rd lv, you can use alter self to assume more combat-worthy forms, such as troglodytes. You have the physical stats to pull this off apparently.

At lv5+, there are some polymorph-subschool line of spells in PHB2 and CM which you can use. Which kinda wastes your good stats, but they are fun. :smallsmile:

Complete arcane has master transmogrifist, if you want to be more focused around polymorph.

Forget eldritch knight, the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) probably suits your needs better.

There is also a grappling wizard build you can consider.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6702.10;wap2

Thanks for the advice, I will strongly consider swiftblade. I was hoping for as close to a full spell progression as possible, but without the need for a level of Ranger this isn't much farther off.

Telonius
2010-11-30, 10:37 AM
1st level feat is Toughness,



If you're going to take a level of Ranger, I'd suggest taking it first. You can't get those skillpoints back. A Ranger level will also get you +1 BAB, which qualifies you for Power Attack, which is a much better feat than Toughness. (Seriously, don't take Toughness. Improved Toughness if you must, but Toughness is garbage).

Is Tome of Battle available? Warblade might be even more advisable than Ranger as a one-level dip. Int to Reflex, given your low-ish dexterity score, would be extremely helpful.

Bison
2010-11-30, 10:55 AM
If you're going to take a level of Ranger, I'd suggest taking it first. You can't get those skillpoints back. A Ranger level will also get you +1 BAB, which qualifies you for Power Attack, which is a much better feat than Toughness. (Seriously, don't take Toughness. Improved Toughness if you must, but Toughness is garbage).

Is Tome of Battle available? Warblade might be even more advisable than Ranger as a one-level dip. Int to Reflex, given your low-ish dexterity score, would be extremely helpful.


For flavor rp reasons I wanted to have him start as a wizard, and I went toughness because that and a toad familiar let him be a reasonable front line type at level one given his Str score.

I know in the grand scheme of things toughness is a weak feat, but this character isn't going to be all that feat dependent

Darrin
2010-11-30, 10:58 AM
1st level feat is Toughness,


Can you switch that to Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior)? +1 HP/level is better in the long run that +3 HP just once. You can also get +3 HP by taking a Toad familiar. Toad acquired, check.

Consider spending 100 GP on Ritual of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn of Bahumat. This gives you Con +2, Dex -2. The only racial ability you lose is darkvision, but you can get it back with the mind aspect, which eventually improves to blindsense 30'. The heart aspect gives you a breath weapon, which gives you some offensive options when running low on spells. The wings aspect is probably best for survivability (anything else that can't fly you can either slaughter with ranged attacks or run away from), but it doesn't kick in until 6HD.

You can also add the Arctic template (Dragon #306, check Crystalkeep's 3.0 templates for more details) for Con +2, Cha -2.

Frostblood Half-Orc is another option. You gain frost resistance 10 and Endurance as a bonus feat, but are vulnerable to fire (you can offset this with Shape Soulmeld: Flame Cincture for fire resistance 10). You can combine this with the Arctic template, but probably not Dragonborn of Bahumat (you'd lose the bonus feat). Endurance isn't all that useful, but it's a prereq for Steadfast Determination and Diehard, which might be useful later.



He gave up Illusion and Enchantement as his opposition schools (not much to miss there for him, but I do wish I had access to Mirror Image)


There's a feat in Dragon Magazine #325 called "Diversified Casting". It allows you to pick three spells from your banned schools and still keep them on your spell list. You could keep mirror image, color spray, or maybe one of the invisibility spells. Actually, instead of mirror image, consider instant diversion from Races of the Dragon: 1st level spell, 1 duplicate + 1 for every 4 CLs, swift action to cast but only lasts 1 round.



any ideas of how to make this character a bit more surviavable in combat would be appreciated.


For combat, start with thrown daggers to take advantage of your strength bonus on damage. Consider picking up a few orc shotputs (A&EG p. 9, 2d6 damage, 19-20/x3). At 1st level, move action to draw a shotput, swift action to cast master's touch (Spell Compendium), standard action to throw. Anything you hit with only 1-2 HD is likely to get killed outright (11 average damage).

When you run out of spells or want to save them for more important encounters, invest in some battlefield control weapons/equipment. A net (20 GP) is easy to hit with even without EWP (ranged touch attack) and can be used to entangle or delay/annoy a creature for a round, but a lasso is cheaper (1 GP, BoED) and has no size restriction. Add multiple applications of Blister Oil (Races of Stone p. 159, 15 GP for 1d8 applications, each application does 1d4 untyped damage on a failed DC 15 Fort save) to the net/lasso for a possible low-level SoD effect. Caltrops (either the item or the cantrip) can be used to discourage enemies from moving into certain squares. Marbles (2 SP/bag, A&EG p. 24) can be used as 5' x 5' nonmagical grease. Smokesticks or liquid smoke (20 GP, Oriental Adventures p. 78) can be used for concealment or to block line-of-sight.

Bison
2010-11-30, 11:07 AM
I thought about imp toughness, but you need a +2 Fort base save to qualify I believe, and i dont get that as a wizard.

however instead of toughness, I think I may instead take precocious apprentice and select bears endurance as my second level spell. it would fit in very well flavor wise with the character and make up for those lost HP one one encounter a day which should be fine until 3rd level,

and that extra 2nd level spot will remain useful.

we start out the campaign with no gear according to the DM so many of the other options are out for now, but I'm sure I can acquire them soon enough.

Greenish
2010-11-30, 11:09 AM
So I'm starting a new campaign, and I have been itching to play a Melee/Arcane brute type character for some time, and since the DM seemed eager to see me play a Half-Orc Wizard, I thought the time was right to try my hand at a Transmuter.Could you spring for full orc?

Is Tome of Battle available? Warblade might be even more advisable than Ranger as a one-level dip. Int to Reflex, given your low-ish dexterity score, would be extremely helpful.That's capped by your warblade level.

Bison
2010-11-30, 11:10 AM
Could you spring for full orc?


sadly no, has to be a race with no level adjustment

Greenish
2010-11-30, 11:11 AM
sadly no, has to be a race with no level adjustmentOrcs have none. :smallconfused:

Darrin
2010-11-30, 11:27 AM
however instead of toughness, I think I may instead take precocious apprentice and select bears endurance as my second level spell. it would fit in very well flavor wise with the character and make up for those lost HP one one encounter a day which should be fine until 3rd level,

and that extra 2nd level spot will remain useful.


Actually, if you combine that with Focused Specialist (Complete Mage p. 34), you get to trade that 2nd level spell slot for two 2nd level transmutation spell slots. At 1st level. This certainly helps your survivability at 1st-2nd level, but after 3rd level, it's kinda a waste of a feat.

I'd recommend alter self instead of bear's endurance. It lasts longer (10 min/level instead of 1 min/level), and gives you access to a tremendous amount of utility: troglodyte for +6 natural armor, burrow (earth mephling), fly (air mephling, avariel, flyer saurial), swim speed (merfolk, locathath, sahaugin), climb speed (mountain spirit folk), large size (hornhead saurial).


Orcs have none. :smallconfused:

Frostblood Orcs (Dragon Magic) or Water Orcs (Unearthed Arcana/SRD) are generally the best, either for the Endurance bonus feat or an additional Constitution +2 ability modifier.

Water Orc:
Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2.
They get a 20' swim speed, too.

Dragonborn Arctic Water Orc:
Str +4, Dex -2, Con +6, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -4.

Bison
2010-11-30, 11:50 AM
Orcs have none. :smallconfused:

hmm .. this I will have to consider, I had it in my head they were a +1

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-30, 11:59 AM
Toughness is worthless, just because he's going to be a front line character doesn't mean you have to play him that way at 1st level. Get a reach weapon, cast Enlarge Person, and you don't have to get any closer than within 20 ft. of your opponents. Your AC is going to suck anyway, so don't even give anything a chance to hit you, wasting a feat on +3 HP isn't going to save your character's life, playing smart is.

With so many odd numbers in your ability scores, you should start him out middle-age. He could be the older, more experienced member of the party, hence why he plays smart instead of just running in smashing his face against everything that can kill him in one shot. In that case I'd go Str 16, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 10 after race and age adjustments. With Enlarge Person you'll still have Str 18, and your mental ability scores are better off for it. Your 4th level point should go into Con, then everything else into Int.

Another option would be to play a full Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm), which gets an additional +2 Str and -2 Wis over a Half-Orc. A Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) is even better, it gets an extra +2 Con and a 30 ft. Swim speed. If you're going to be good-aligned, you can instead make him a Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) Water Orc, which gets rid of the Orc light sensitivity and the Race of Water traits, but keeps the ability score adjustments and swim speed. In that case, still middle-age you could go Str 19, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 10. I'd go for the Heart aspect of Dragonborn to get a breath attack, and get amazing spells like Blinding Breath and Dispelling Breath later on. Consider taking Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon to keep opponents entangled, which debuffs their attack rolls and AC and makes it difficult for them to position themselves to gain a tactical advantage. With your 20 ft. reach against slowed opponents you'll be king of the battlefield.