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View Full Version : Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)



gallagher
2010-11-30, 01:16 AM
are there any good builds focused on claws of the beast? i see that one only will ever have two attacks with the claws, which does seem to hold the character back a bit, yet unless i go with the TWF route i only get 3 anyway.

i do not know how many levels we are going, but it is an ECL 6, 32 pb game. i am considering risking getting a DMG thrown at me and being a Half Minotaur Water Orc with 5 levels of PsyWar, but might go for Feral instead of half minotaur

gallagher
2010-11-30, 01:18 AM
are there any good builds focused on claws of the beast? i see that one only will ever have two attacks with the claws, which does seem to hold the character back a bit, yet unless i go with the TWF route i only get 3 anyway.

i do not know how many levels we are going, but it is an ECL 6, 32 pb game. i am considering risking getting a DMG thrown at me and being a Half Minotaur Water Orc with 5 levels of PsyWar, but might go for Feral instead of half minotaur

and would it be better to go with bite of the wolf instead of claws of the beast?

Psyren
2010-11-30, 05:43 AM
You mean like King of Smack? That one is all about the claw-age.

This one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127217) is easy to read. (Don't post to that thread though.)

EDIT: What do you mean, "instead?" Use both!

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-30, 10:27 AM
You might be able to fanagle a way to do bite/1 claw/ wepon attacks.

I think the claws specify 2 claws and you con't use wepons in those hands. but maby if you grafted a full blade to the one arm? you could do it.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-30, 10:36 AM
Something like Elan Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 5/Slayer 10/something 3

Feats would be something like
Monk 1: Combat Expertise (Passive Way Fighting style
1Track
Flaw Dodge
Monk 2 Monastic Training (Slayer)
3 Overchannel
Psy War 1: Psionic Meditation
Psy War 2: Talented
6 Linked Power
Psy War 5: no idea
9 Karmic Strike
12: Rapidstrike
15: ExK(Metamorphosis)
18 Improved Rapidstrike (Claws)

Assuming fractional BAB I get 17 BAB (if the something is 3/4 BAB) or 18 (if full BAB)
Monk 12 goodies.
Psychic Warrior 18 Manifester level.



A build stub I made, haven't had the opportunity to test it, but in paper it seems useful.

Edit I forgot to add the attack routine at level 20



Greater flurry with base unarmed strike damage of a 12th level monk (or 17th if I drop money on a monks belt/tattoo) +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2 plus claws at +17/+17/+17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7 (with improved rapidstrike)

Greenish
2010-11-30, 10:47 AM
A build stub I made, haven't had the opportunity to test it, but in paper it seems useful.Where's your Tashatalora?

Claws of the Beast has an annoying clause: If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you canít make any claw attacks in that round.

You could bypass that with Beast Strike, though.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-30, 10:49 AM
Where's your Tashatalora?

Claws of the Beast has an annoying clause: If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you canít make any claw attacks in that round.

You could bypass that with Beast Strike, though.

:Headesk: Darn it.... thanks for pointing out that. need to shuffle feats.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 10:54 AM
You might be able to fanagle a way to do bite/1 claw/ wepon attacks.

I think the claws specify 2 claws and you con't use wepons in those hands. but maby if you grafted a full blade to the one arm? you could do it.

Or just use unarmed strike; it can be made with any part of the body. Elbows, knees, feet, headbutts... This is why Tashalatora King of Smack is so effective.

Thrawn183
2010-11-30, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I don't know how many times I've had to point out that clause to people.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-30, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I don't know how many times I've had to point out that clause to people.

Note they only use careful wording on spells when it nerfs melee :smallwink:

Psyren
2010-11-30, 11:59 AM
That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.

But then, RAW frequently is, so I'm glad they spelled it out.

Sir Swindle89
2010-11-30, 12:02 PM
That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.

But then, RAW frequently is, so I'm glad they spelled it out.

the dumb part is the no other natural attacks. Saying the claws could not hold wepons should have surficed.

Greenish
2010-11-30, 12:09 PM
That clause shouldn't be needed - expecting to claw things while your hands are full (with a quarterstaff, say, or a shield) is silly.I see nothing silly in holding a shield and clawing someone, assuming your character has two arms, as most are wont to have.

[Edit]: Or attacking with a sword and a claw, which the rules actually prohibits in this specific case.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-30, 12:36 PM
I'd go Feral Half-Minotaur Water Orc, Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ War Mind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5. Use Martial Spirit with your Claw/Claw/Gore attack routine, and you can use Battle Leader's Charge with Pounce to get +10 damage to all of your attacks, plus an extra two rake attacks later on. You'll be able to use Expansion and Bite of the Wolf in a few levels, and be sure to get Practiced Manifester. I'd take Power Attack and Leap Attack and wear Armbands of Might, and always Power Attack for -2 for +4 damage, or +8 when Leap Attacking. This build gets full BAB and its manifester level is only behind by one, but you have to spend your skill points carefully in those first five levels to qualify for War Mind.

You'll need max cross-class ranks in Kn: Psionics with those Crusader levels, and if you don't have at least Int 12 you'll need to leave one of your skillpoints unspent at 4th level to spend at 5th (nothing says you cannot do this), which will put you at 3.5 ranks. At Sanctified Mind 1 you get four skill points, plus that one Crusader point that buys a cross-class rank, which adds 4.5 ranks to it and puts you at the necessary 8 ranks. If your Int score has a negative modifier, you'll need to leave two more Crusader skill points unspent for each -1 Int modifier (4 points if Int 6-7, you won't get enough skill points if Int 4-5). You'll also need two ranks in Kn: History, everyone should have five ranks in Balance, you can trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) which should be at least five ranks, and you'll also want max ranks in Jump. That means you should make Int at least a +0, which can buy the following skills: Crusader 1: Balance 4, Jump 4, Tumble 4, Kn: Psionics 2; Crusader 2: Balance 5, Jump 5, Tumble 5, Kn: History 1; Crusader 3: Kn: History 2, Kn: Psionics 3, Jump 6; Crusader 4: Jump 7, Concentration 1, Kn: Psionics 3.5, one point unspent; Sanctified Mind 1: Kn: Psionics 8. With your War Mind skill points get one rank in Autohypnosis pick up four Psicraft ranks for Practiced Manifester, then max out Concentration and keep it at max ranks, and spend whatever is left in Autohypnosis.

Your feats should be Multiattack or Combat Reflexes depending on Dex (or both with flaws), Power Attack, Leap Attack, Practiced Manifester, Linked Power, (Improved) Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack: Claws. Get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip via flaws if your Int score is high enough. Say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Iron Will for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it, it's required for Sanctified Mind. Get Expansion and Bite of the Wolf, and whatever other buffs you think you'll want. Force Screen and Inertial Armor are amazing if you get a Monk's Belt, and definitely have Armbands of Might starting out.

Kallisti
2010-11-30, 12:52 PM
Psychic Warrios, and Claws of the Beast (3.5)

Psychic Warios? What will Nintendo think of next?

Back on topic, the rules on how Monk abilities and natural weapons interact are pretty vague at times, so chances are you could convince a DM to let you use monk abilities with a natural weapon, which makes Tashalatora a decent option if you're actually taking Psychic Warrior levels. That said, the build Biffoniacus_Furiou posted is sans Psychic Warrior and therefore sans Tashalatora, but quite solid. A lot of DMs are wary of both Feral and Half-Minotaur, so trying to take one or both does indeed put you at risk of flying DMGs. Tashalatora Psychic Warrior is probably safer. Also, if you plan on natural attacks, dip enough Totemist to get Chakra Bind Feet. You get two very good options--one gives you, effectively, Pounce with natural attacks (which meshes very well with the rest of Totemist)--and the other gives you bonus Sonic damage and a chance to stun on every attack in a charge. So if you can get Pounce elsewhere--a Lion Totem Barbarian dip, perhaps--I'd go with that last.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 01:25 PM
I see nothing silly in holding a shield and clawing someone, assuming your character has two arms, as most are wont to have.

Even assuming the shield is strapped on your arm, you'd either need a pretty small shield or pretty long arms to bring your hand (and therefore claws) to bear.

Thrawn183
2010-11-30, 02:26 PM
The important part is that it prohibits you from using your claws in conjunction with the power that gives you a bite attack. Eventually it also is incompatable with Form of Doom as well, but the key is that it prevents you from being able to get three natural attacks early on.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 02:45 PM
The important part is that it prohibits you from using your claws in conjunction with the power that gives you a bite attack. Eventually it also is incompatable with Form of Doom as well, but the key is that it prevents you from being able to get three natural attacks early on.

That is true, and it sucks. So if you're using a weapon, you're stuck with Bite of the Wolf.

Keld Denar
2010-11-30, 03:16 PM
If you want natural attacks, you can Tash out Soul Manifester (Minds Eye Web Enhancement). Its a psionic class that advances 10/10 manifesting AND meldshaping. You could get in as a Monk2/Ardent1/Totemist2, or a Monk2/PsyWar4/Totemist2, the former being much better. That'll give you 12 levels of effective monk progression, 12 levels of manifester progression with access to Totem, Hands, Feet, Crown, Arms, and Shoulders binds, and if you do the Ardent chassis, you can take Expanded Knowledge at 9 to pick up Psionic Open Chakra which can be augemented via Midnight Augmentation and the Soul Manifester's augement ability to hit ML17 IIRC to open Waist and Heart? by about level 14.

Only problem is you HAVE to mostly rely on natural attacks. You're BAB will be terrible even with fractional BAB, since Soul Manifester is only 1/2 BAB.

Greenish
2010-11-30, 03:38 PM
Even assuming the shield is strapped on your arm, you'd either need a pretty small shield or pretty long arms to bring your hand (and therefore claws) to bear.Oh c'mon, you're just being silly. Gauntlets, punching daggers and everything work just fine, and it's not like you need a long reach for your weapon to use it with a shield.

Gladius, for instance, typically had a blade length of 45-60 cm, according to wikipedia. I guess they had pretty long arms, since their shields weren't that small.


And then there's the fact you can't claw and, say, use a dagger or spiked gauntlet with your other hand.

Psyren
2010-11-30, 03:43 PM
Oh c'mon, you're just being silly. Gauntlets, punching daggers and everything work just fine, and it's not like you need a long reach for your weapon to use it with a shield.

Gladius, for instance, typically had a blade length of 45-60 cm, according to wikipedia. I guess they had pretty long arms, since their shields weren't that small.

And then there's the fact you can't claw and, say, use a dagger or spiked gauntlet with your other hand.

I think we're referring to different things. I was talking about claw attacks in conjunction with sword-and-board, not simply claw + shield.

Greenish
2010-11-30, 04:37 PM
I think we're referring to different things. I was talking about claw attacks in conjunction with sword-and-board, not simply claw + shield.Ah, I see. Obviously clawing someone with a hand you're holding something with would be difficult, I was just pointing out how the rule you called silly and obvious actually prevents things that do make sense (like one-handed weapon + claw).