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Amiel
2010-12-03, 10:21 AM
The Shining Men, The Argent Trespassers

Large Outsider (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 10d8+90 (135 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft.
Armor Class: 23 (-1 size, +14 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+23
Attack: Slam +20 melee (2d8+9 + 1d6 cold)
Full Attack: 2 slams +20 melee (2d8+9 + 1d6 cold)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Impacting strikes, spells
Special Qualities: Alter size, damage reduction 10/magic, darkvision 60 ft., hyperdimensionality, immunity to cold, petrification, pressure and radiation, inspiration, no breath, resistance to acid 10 and fire 10, spell resistance 22, tongues
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +7, Will +9
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 10, Con 29, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 18
Skills: Acrobatics +20, Craft (any one) +20, Diplomacy +26, Fly +20, Intimidate +24, Knowledge (planes) +22, Knowledge (religion) +19, Perception +26, Sense Motive +26, Stealth +18
Feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Weapon Focus (slam)
Environment: The Dark Tapestry
Organization: Solitary, pair or retinue (3-6)
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral

Alter Size (Su) As a full action, a shining man can assume a size from Medium to Large.

Hyperdimensionality (Ex) A shining man exists outside the bounds of rational time and space. This bestows some powerful qualities to the shining man.
A shining man simultaneously exists in all dimensionalities, it may strike into all realities, ignoring etherealness, incorporeality and penetrating 25% miss chance.
A shining man can greater teleport once per 1d3 rounds as a free action and can plane shift three times per day as a full action. These abilities function as a 10th level caster.

Impacting Strikes (Ex) A shining man's slams strike as Huge fists, dealing 2d8 points of damage. In addition, a nimbus of hoarfrost surrounds each hand, as if their arms were sheathed in bitter cold. Each strike also deals an additional 1d6 points of cold damage on a successful hit.

Inspiration (Ex) A shining man can inspire creative and inventive greatness in mortals, this power fuelled by its own intellect and understanding. Three times per day, a shining man can grant a combined fox's cunning effect and +2 to Craft and Knowledge checks to a willing mortal.

No Breath (Ex) A shining man does not need to breathe.

Spells: A shining man casts spells as a 10th level wizard.

The Argent Trespassers, also known as the Shining Men (title irregardless of sex), are a race of space-faring hyperdimensional beings who traverse the frigid reaches of space to explore and catalogue all that they encounter.

Existing beyond the bounds of known reality, these giants are surmised by scholars to have being among the first gods - divine progenitors who bestowed knowledge and creativity upon the mortal coil and seeded these realms with their loaming and fruit.

Grimoires dealing in esoteric lore delve into further detail. These shining men favoured virgin worlds - such that they may be raised up as deific personas as they descend from on high to bring the clarity of information and the fire of understanding to mortals.

Originally rather benign - in that they weren't overly malicious rather than benevolent, their trespass would often bring the wrath of jealous gods and calamity upon the mortals they sought to inspire.

Such acts only invigorated the shining men's want to gift civilisation to the uncivilised - whom they considered to be everyone.

Devious and cunning, the trespassers act without moral or ethical restraint to bring about enlightenment and illumination of the mind. Their inspiration would as likely conclude in devastating weapons of mass destruction as it would in the invention of cures for plagues.

A shining man appears as an entirely silver-clad humanoid giant, with a great reflective bowl for a head. A shining man will only show its true appearance to one it favours or its kith and kind. A shining man is rumoured to actually be a rather handsome specimen.

gkathellar
2010-12-03, 12:14 PM
Hyperdimensionality's "effective outsider" quality is cumbersome and irritating. Actually just make it a native outsider, it doesn't need to be a giant to be large and humanoid in shape.

Amiel
2010-12-03, 05:22 PM
Except they aren't native outsiders though, at all; since they are native to the Dark Tapestry, not to the mortal coil. The intent with hyperdimensionality was to frame the mechanics so they could retain their "original type" yet also possess the characteristics of a traditional outsider.

gkathellar
2010-12-03, 06:26 PM
Okay, so they don't have the native subtype. There are outsiders from every plane, including the material, so I don't see why these are giants. Giving them a type and then saying that for all purposes they're another type is cumbersome and defies the entire purpose of the type system.

It's like a racial feature that says, "If you take levels in fighter, you gain BAB, saves, skills, class features and spellcasting as if you were a wizard, and vice versa." You could easily dispense with the feature because it amounts to nothing more than extra text.

Amiel
2010-12-03, 07:25 PM
My original intention to giving them the Giant type was so they could be unique within a plethora of outsiders; though really, the giant type doesn't grant them any benefits that the outsider doesn't already.

I'll replace said type with the outsider type.

However, I disagree that writing such would be tantamount to superfluous text, I feel that more rules should take the initiative to frame mechanics that grant advantageous bonuses that a type initially disallows. The fey, in particular, would benefit.

gkathellar
2010-12-03, 07:48 PM
I think that's more a problem with certain types, or with the Racial HD system in general. Look at what they're doing in the Improved Monster Classes thread - it's a pretty cool solution, and provides scaling monsters.

Anyway, more substantive advice.

Mentioning immortality in hyperdimensionality is superfluous, since outsiders don't age. Since its strikes penetrate all realities in said feature, might it also strike ethereal creatures? Doesn't matter that much against 9th-13th level PCs, but it's kind of a cool touch. Free action teleport every 1-3 rounds is ... really powerful, but not completely out of line (dimensional anchor is basically necessary to fight this guy, though).

DR x/magic is meaningless in general, but that's just a system gripe I have. SR 22 is a little tough to penetrate for eleventh level characters 50% chance assuming no feats, which while not unbalanced can be really irritating. Not that casters need any favors. Immunities and resistances look acceptable, pretty much standard for a melee monster of this level.

Tenth level wizard casting is really powerful, though, especially considering its melee abilities and its spell-likes.

Too powerful for CR 11, altogether.

Amiel
2010-12-09, 02:42 AM
I think that's more a problem with certain types, or with the Racial HD system in general. Look at what they're doing in the Improved Monster Classes thread - it's a pretty cool solution, and provides scaling monsters.

I agree that it's rather indicative of a problem with the racial HD system in general; I actually find it preferable to one where this degree of imbalance is given over to sameness. I still like it, and where this imbalance is apparent a new feature (be it an ability or quality) can be designed to shore up the deficiency.


Anyway, more substantive advice.

Thanks much for the critique :)


Mentioning immortality in hyperdimensionality is superfluous, since outsiders don't age.

Yeah, this was a hold-over from when it was originally conceived as a Giant.
However, this immortality was intended to reference that the creature couldn't die save from extreme violence or especial cases. IIRC, deities offered the same clause.


Since its strikes penetrate all realities in said feature, might it also strike ethereal creatures? Doesn't matter that much against 9th-13th level PCs, but it's kind of a cool touch.

Indeed!
I'll edit in the clarifier.


Free action teleport every 1-3 rounds is ... really powerful, but not completely out of line (dimensional anchor is basically necessary to fight this guy, though).

And it can also be caught within a web, since it doesn't have a good Ref save (or possess the Escape Artist skill), and its high SR can't help it any. Nor does it have a particularly good Will save either. So spells (either innately cast or cast from scrolls) that target its weak saves may cause the creature much damage. There's also glitterdust.


DR x/magic is meaningless in general, but that's just a system gripe I have. SR 22 is a little tough to penetrate for eleventh level characters 50% chance assuming no feats, which while not unbalanced can be really irritating. Not that casters need any favors. Immunities and resistances look acceptable, pretty much standard for a melee monster of this level.

Yeah, it was probably intended to consolidate the system into a more streamlined mechanic. I agree that it does fail to differentiate between the different strata of magic levels.

There's a number of spells up to the CR level that don't allow for SR, and the spells needn't be directly damaging either; especially glitterdust and web. Hopefully casters and magic device users at that level also have access to items that can reduce its SR.
The hamatula at CR 11 has SR 23, a rakshasa at CR 10 has SR 27.


Tenth level wizard casting is really powerful, though, especially considering its melee abilities and its spell-likes.

What are your thoughts on just reducing it to spell-likes?


Too powerful for CR 11, altogether.

Is it too powerful or just powerful? Because your comments seem to indicate the latter.
I was also mostly designing it for PF, which I should mention.