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Magicyop
2010-12-06, 07:19 PM
Community Based Monster Classes

Welcome! If you've ever played D&D, you've probably wanted to play a monster at some point. Sometimes humans and elves aren't enough. Sometimes, you want to be a dragon.

That's what we're here to do. In this thread, you will be able to play as any monster you want by going into these Monster Classes just as if they were ordinary classes.

Or, if you love the monster classes, and fancy that you want to help out, there are two ways. You can critique, or you can homebrew. Both will be discussed momentarily.

There is also a spin-off project, our homebrew edition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180510). While we allow classes based on well PEACHed homebrew monsters, this spin-off project's main purpose is to make monster classes completely from scratch. Not based off of anything at all, just inventing a new monster in class form. Make sure to check them out!

General FAQ
Q) Isn't there already a Monster Class thread?
A) Yes. This thread has split off from that one because we disagree with their design philosophy, so you will note some differences between our Monster Classes and theirs. Some Monster Classes may have a place in both projects. However, if you are a fan of this thread, I encourage you to at least check out the other one at some time, even though we disagree with them on many points, their monsters are high quality.

Further, if you are here from the other Monster Class thread, you can still help us out. We welcome anyone's work, even if it has be presented in other threads. But the biggest thing you can do is just give us permission to use all of your monsters.

Q) What monsters am I allowed to make into a monster class?
A) We encourage Homebrewers to build any monster they wish to see as a playable character class, though we would prefer that Homebrewers build Monster Classes for Monsters that have either been published, or that have been Finished and well P.E.A.C.H.ed.

Q) Help! I'm taking a 1 or 2 level monster class and can't tell if it's BAB 1/2 or 3/4! (For the purposes of fractional BAB).
A) Unless otherwise noted, an undead has 1/2 BAB, while all other classes/templates have 3/4 BAB.

Q) When I increase in size does my strength increase and my dexterity decrease? If so, by how much?
A) Size increases, or decreases, do not alter ability scores in this project.

Q) What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?
A) Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.

Q) What’s the Save DC for this ability?
A) Unless otherwise specified the Save DC is (10+ 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier).

Q) What is this list of Monsters Thing?
A) The List is an organization of monster-classes that have been thoroughly P.E.A.C.H.ed, and are believed to be Play-ready. We make no claim to the perfection of a monster that has been listed, and continue to encourage comments and thoughts, even on monster-classes that have been 'finished.'


The rest of the rules are split into three parts. Use Guidlines will teach you all the proper rules for using these Monster Classes in a game. Critique Guidelines will explain how you can help the project by commenting on other people's monsters. Homebrew Guidelines states how you can help us by making your own Monster Class.


Use Guidelines
You take these Monster Classes just like you would any other class, such as wizard or rogue. Each level of the class makes you more like the monster, makes you more powerful. Normally you should take the first level of a Monster Class at level 1, but in some cases you may like your character to transform into a monster, in which case you can take it at a later level. After that, you may multiclass freely from and to your Monster Class.

Under normal circumstances you may not multiclass two Base Monster Classes. However, see below. Upon taking the first level of a Monster Base Class, you lose all other racial traits: what this means is that while you may select a race in character creation, you essentially lose it when you pick your Level 1 class level. You do not gain any traits or bonuses from being a race, since the first level of a Monster Class replaces both class and race. (However, it is usually more powerful than a standard class to make up for it.)

Growth Table
{table=head]Base Size|New Size| AC & Attack Bonuses*|Space*|Reach (Tall/Long)*|Ave. Size Incr.|Ave. Weight Incr.|Grapple Mod.|Hide Mod.
Fine|Diminutive|-4 (size)|+½’|+0’/+0’|+6”|+1/2 lb.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Diminutive|Tiny|-2 (size)|+1½’|+0’/+0’|+9”|+5 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Tiny|Small| -1 (size)|+2½’|+5’/+5’|+18”|+36 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Small|Medium| -1 (size)|+0’|+0’/+0’|+3’|+240 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Medium|Large|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+0’|+6’|+2000 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Large|Huge|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+12’|+8 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Huge|Gargantuan|-2 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+24’|+80 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Gargantuan|Colossal|-4 (size)|+10’|+10’/+5’|+48’|+200 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)[/table]
Natural weapons damage increases one die size for each size increase.

Thanks to Zeta Kai for the Table.
Multiple Natural Armor Bonuses
If a creature gains natural armor bonuses from multiple sources treat them according to the following chart.
{table=head]Base Natural Armor|Extra Natural Armor|Results

1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|Full Con Mod as Natural armor Bonus

Anything higher than 1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|+1 Nat. AC

Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|1.5 Con Mod

Anything Higher than Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|+2 Nat. AC

1.5 Con Mod|Anything higher than Full Con Mod|+3 Nat. AC[/table]
Creatures that gain Natural Armor from more than one monster class, that specify different Ability Scores as the base for their Natural Armor Class use whichever Ability Score is higher to derive both Natural Armor Classes, and uses the chart above.
Thanks to ChumpLump for the Table.

Multiclassing Monsters
In some cases, your DM may disregard the above rule and allow you to multiclass two base monster classes. This will likely represent some sort of hybrid character, which could be interesting. In this case, how you should play this is: For the monster class which you do not take at level one, remove the “Body of X” class feature, and use the “Body of X” for your first monster class. If you somehow take them at the same time using a variant rule like gestalt, keep the “Body of X” from the class with more levels. If they both have the same number of levels, you may choose which “Body of X” you keep.


Critique Guidelines
For any monster to be put up, it must be critiqued. By you! Here's how it works.

Monster approval is governed by a group of experienced or thoughtful homebrewers, known as the council. The council currently consists of Gorgondantess, Hyudra, and Magicyop. For any monster to be put on the list, it needs only to be approved by any two council members. The council is not a closed entity, if you wish to be a part of the council, send them a private message and they may accept you.

Further, the council are not the only ones who may critique-- we strongly encourage you to help others round out their monster classes. Especially if you hope to one day be on the council, you will only be chosen for the council if you critique frequently and well.

If you intend to comment on monster classes in any way, you MUST read the below rules and follow them.

Critiquing Rules
1. Respect
Respect is tantamount if you are working on this project. If you are disrespectful of a class or a homebrewer, you will face consequences within this thread. At all times we must all treat each other with respect. Ignore all other rules before you ignore this one. Never be disrespectful to another homebrewer.

2. Contribution
Try to always critique Monster Classes whenever you can. It can be very frustrating if no one will critique your class, and if you skip over someone's class, they may feel left out. Just remember that if you help someone out by critiquing their class, they will likely help you out by critiquing your class.

3. Flexibility
If you suggest someone change something about their class, be flexible if they don't want to. If they address your concern and really don't want to change it, you can still nominate the class regardless.

4. Standardization
Remember when you are critiquing that a class should be accurate to the rules below, in the homebrew section. Do not critique based on some imaginary rule which you have in your head, especially if that conflicts with our rules here. This is not to say you can't explain your position, if it conflicts with the rules, but encouraging someone to make a monster class outside of the rules of this thread is frowned upon.


How To Critique
1. Take a good long look at the class. A skimming look will not do. Read the entire thing, and try to get the image in your mind of what type of flavor the creator was going for.
2. Comment on the class as a whole before picking it apart. Give your feelings in general.
3. Note how you feel about each separate feature of the class.
4. Make sure the class is in accordance with the homebrew rules below.
5. Remember to also say what you like about the class-- try to find one nice thing to say about every monster class you critique. Every crafter has their merits.

Homebrew Guidelines
Making a Monster Class is difficult, so don't think you can whip something up in ten seconds and get it posted. It may be long and hard to perfect it, but we'll help you through it. Follow these guidelines and you'll quickly be on your way. Remember to start out with ChumpLump's class template so that all classes are in a standard format.

Class Templates

Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915170&postcount=41)
Therianthrope Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9790594&postcount=1221)

Homebrewing Rules
1. Flavor
Flavor and fun top all else when you are making Monster Classes. Your abilities should be interesting and fun, even if the original monster is fairly bland. Numerical bonuses are not fun. If you create a flavorful class which is awesome, we can work through any other problems.

2. Balance
Balance is vital when making these classes, it is easy to make a monster too powerful or too weak. Keep in mind all of the following rules when you are building a class.
Base Attack Bonus and Saves: Don’t worry about staying too true to the Type’s Base Attack Bonus, Saves, Skills, and Proficiencies. Just because it is an Outsider doesn’t mean it should have Full Base Attack Bonus, All Good Saves, (8+Intelligence Modifier) Skills Per Level, and proficiency with all Martial Weapons. That said, Monster’s Class skills are usually a good idea to keep with the original. These things should be based on the Character class you are building, and not the Monster’s type. Undead and Constructs merit high Hit Dice by their constitution-less nature, and Lower Base Attack Bonuses, Skills per level, Class Skills, and Saves by their inherently stronger nature. Generally, undead and constructs should not have class skills, to balance out the benefits of these types.

Challenge Rating and Class Level: As a basic rule of thumb, the number of Levels in a Monster Class should be equal to the monster’s CR. There are exceptions to this rule, See Therianthropy, and we see no reason that a monster cannot be advanced beyond its CR.

If a Monster has more than 20 CR, it is recommended to build two monster classes. The first being a 20 level progression for the Monster Class, and the second being an Epic Level Progression for the Monster Class. We encourage Monster Crafters to build any monster that strikes their fancy, and will be more than willing to help with Epic Progressions, but it is recommended to get the important class features of an Epic level monster before level 20.

Natural Armor: Base Monster Classes that offer natural armor bonuses should generally base this bonus off of Constitution Modifier. The Default is Natural Amor Bonus is equal to the Creature’s Constitution Modifier. Some monsters merit the use of Strength, or Mental Ability Scores. Other, more defensive monsters merit a Natural Armor Bonus of 1.5 X their Constitution Modifier, and weaker Monsters may offer a Natural Armor Bonus of .5 X their Constitution Modifier.

Templates that increase Natural Armor, should offer a “Bonus to Natural Armor” opposed to a “Natural Armor Bonus,” The difference being that the former stacks with the later.

Ability Bonuses: Ability Scores shouldn’t increase more than +1 for any Given Ability Score per Level. If there is a good place to make an exception to this rule, it is First level, but even there it needs some justification. Ability Score penalties also require such justification, as that we are not terribly keen on them.

Monster Classes shouldn’t be terrible M.A.D. (Multiple Ability Score Dependent), as such we Request that a Monster Class be built with two or three Primary Ability Scores. Further, Bonuses to Ability Scores not particularly used by the Class should be explained, or justified. (Werewolves do not particularly use Wisdom, but Lycanthropy is known for expanding a creature’s Judgment and Awareness.)

No Level Left Behind: Monster Abilities should be broken down into separate features and abilities. More active abilities are better than passive ones, and options are always a good choice, well almost always. We strongly advise against Dead Levels. A Dead Level is a Level in which no ability is gained, or only ability scores increase. These are boring, and make your future Monster Players Cry. We don’t like crying players. This is possibly the second closest guideline to a rule. Don’t be afraid to build custom class features in order to keep a monster interesting, these are, after all, Player Character Classes, so they can be more interesting than your average monster. (As always active abilities are always more fun than passive ones.)

Flying: Shouldn’t come in before 6th level, Before then Feather Falling, Bonus to Jumps, and Gliding are all fine powers.

Large: Shouldn’t come in to play before 3rd level.

Huge: Shouldn’t come into play before 12th level.

Gargantuan: Shouldn’t come into play before 16th level.

Colossal: Shouldn’t come into play before 20th level.

Damage Reduction: Shouldn’t come into play before 3rd level, at this point it should be based on 1/2 the creature's HD.

Spell Resistance: Shouldn’t come into play before 3rd level, at this point it should be based on 10+ The creature's HD.

Energy Immunity: Shouldn’t come into play before 5th level, and should come with a vulnerability (+50% damage) to another element. Energy Resistance is usually a better choice, based on the Creature’s HD.

Full Casters: Should be weaker than your average Monster Class. Casting is good, and powerful, but this still doesn’t merit dead levels. Generally (Class Level-1) as Effecting Caster Level has been the mode for creating Caster Monsters, but other options certainly exist.

Special Abilities: Should Scale with HD!

Uses Per Day: At will is dangerous. Some Spell-Like Abilities and Class Features should not be at Will. Generally uses per day are based on the Monster’s HD, or a Ability Score. However, one option is to make it so that an ability becomes at will after it would gain a certain number of uses per day.

Spell Like Abilities: Some Spell-Like Abilities are too powerful for lower levels, it is completely reasonable to offer a weaker SLA and have it scale up to a Higher power SLA at higher Levels or Creature HDs. Summon Monster is a great example, where a Monster Class may gains access to Summon Monster I at level 2, and Summon Monster V at level 9.

In General: Monsters Should Synergize well with a virtual 'Favored Class.' If your monster wouldn’t multiclass well into another class, maybe you could re-examine it, keep in mind that players may want to play more than 7 levels.

3. Professionalism
Your monster is a work of art, and it should look like that. If people are going to use it, it needs to be high quality. It should not look shoddy, because we know you put a lot of work into it. Remember the following simple guidelines:
Title your monster class with size 5 font.
Post an Image below the title
Spoiler the Statistics and Table
List HD, Skills, and Proficiencies in Bold
List Class Features in the Order that they are gained, with italicized titles
Spoiler Comments and Change-log.
Clean Spelling! Please check your Spelling! Spell Check is your friend!

4. Ease of Use
Your Monster Class should be easy to use. People shouldn't have to puzzle out the intention of an ability. Speak plainly and avoid complexity if you can make something simpler (but don't be afraid to have a complex mechanic if the class will be more fun for it.)

5. Variety
Keep in mind that variety is good! If you offer your players choices on what abilities to gain or how to advance in the class, they'll be grateful to you. Feel free to do it, but remember it may not be appropriate for all classes.


If you have never made a Monster Class before, it is recommended you start out with a small one, though this is not required. Starting out with an epic monster is a sure way to bring pain to everyone in the project.

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 07:20 PM
Base Monster Classes

A

Abishai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224087&postcount=41) - Gorgondantess
Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367644&postcount=408) - by Oslecamo
Achaierai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8926591&postcount=946) - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927531&postcount=952) - by AustontheGreat1
Allip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9468452&postcount=105) - by Temotei
Anaxim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355044&postcount=378) - by Draken
Androsphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9241349&postcount=136) - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589538&postcount=496) - by Draken
Ankheg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9917457&postcount=99) - by Kajhera
Annis Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8910218&postcount=915) - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9187907&postcount=1413) - by Oslecamo
Aranea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8118735&postcount=220) - by Oslecamo
Arcadian Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9591118&postcount=594) - by Zemro Shivic
Arcanaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059851&postcount=1145) - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520004&postcount=337) - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477852&postcount=172) - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355227&postcount=379) - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355321&postcount=380) - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966879&postcount=55) - by Oslecamo

B

Balor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7967157&postcount=58) - by Oslecamo
Beguiler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8672814&postcount=637) - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8501338&postcount=416) - by AustontheGreat1
Blink Dog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8325734&postcount=330) - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8674054&postcount=649) - by Draken
Bralani (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Bugbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9243419&postcount=143) - by Crafty Cultist

C

Cat, Awakened (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959014&postcount=442) - by Gorgondantess
Centaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987339&postcount=91) - by Oslecamo
Cheshire Cat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803718&postcount=1249) - by Geckoking
Cloud Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9569988&postcount=533)vby Hyudra
Coatl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9237490&postcount=117)vby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9201680&postcount=1446) - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9734048&postcount=1033) - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236124&postcount=90) - by Oslecamo
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by monkman
Djinni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7960967&postcount=43) - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094837&postcount=1225) - by Hyudra
Doppelganger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8160461&postcount=258) - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9380867&postcount=454) - by monkman
Dragonne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9504956&postcount=215) - by Magicyop
Drider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9630191&postcount=710) - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8131810&postcount=243) - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9285918&postcount=275) - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8946427&postcount=996) - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8787260&postcount=750) - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911700&postcount=920) - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8024351&postcount=144) - by Oslecamo
Ettin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471641&postcount=121) - by Temotei

F

Firbolg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8588088&postcount=490) - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234777&postcount=82) - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9258321&postcount=184) - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8983373&postcount=1020) - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9466013&postcount=82) - by Volt
Fire Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8936547&postcount=968) - by Hyudra
Frost Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8591700&postcount=510) - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9385418&postcount=467) - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9212463&postcount=10) - by Oslecamo
Ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8112651&postcount=215) - by Oslecamo
Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8164244&postcount=269) - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Githzerai/Githyanki (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615407&postcount=659) - by Chumplump
Glass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9550833&postcount=480) - by Cogidubnus
Gloom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017974&postcount=129) - by Oslecamo
Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8166791&postcount=274) - by Oslecamo
Goristro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463971&postcount=19) - by Monkman
Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7988336&postcount=92) - by Oslecamo
Green Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405322&postcount=539) - by ChumpLump
Grimlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966772&postcount=54) - by Oslecamo
Griffon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9074825&postcount=1170) - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8574795&postcount=460) - by Volt

H

Harpy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8895469&postcount=872) - by Hyudra
Hell Hound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094826&postcount=1224) - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360) - by Hyudra
Hound Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987311&postcount=89) - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940925&postcount=984) - by Frog Dragon
Hydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9338086&postcount=357) - by Oslecamo

I

Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047328&postcount=1087) - by Hyudra
Iron Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8982582&postcount=1018) - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9242948&postcount=141) - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8843416&postcount=809) - by Crafty Cultist
Kuo-Toa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9081372&postcount=1195) - by Hyudra
Kython (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264340&postcount=217) - by Crafty_Cultist
Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9273463&postcount=252) - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281500&postcount=270) - by Crafty Cultist
Kyton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9392273&postcount=512) - by ChumpLump

L

Lantern Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9147212&postcount=1301) - by Volt
Leonal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Lillend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8097854&postcount=208) - by Oslecamo

M

Marilith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8132375&postcount=246) - by Oslecamo
Marrutact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9029376&postcount=1044) - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9231506&postcount=69) - by Gorgondantess
Medusa and Choker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7948874&postcount=17) - by Oslecamo
Mimic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9464961&postcount=60) - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Mephit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8678862&postcount=664) - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1034) - by Frog Dragon
Movanic Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9430145&postcount=596) - by Oslecamo
Mummy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7977252&postcount=82) - by Oslecamo
MurderJack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236908&postcount=102) - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9525115&postcount=390) - by Makiru
Nerra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8492973&postcount=390) - by Draken
Nimblewright (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471896&postcount=123) - by Temotei
Nixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8034400&postcount=162) - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1060) - by Frog Dragon
Nymph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8167378&postcount=278) - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Ogre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8789542&postcount=758) - by Hyudra
Owlbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367442&postcount=407) - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8055617&postcount=172) - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9516820&postcount=326) - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9633413&postcount=722) - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7976670&postcount=80) - by Oslecamo
Pixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8592607&postcount=512) - by Aranii
Planetouched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9041408&postcount=1052) - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9229026&postcount=55) - by Kobold-Bard
Psionic Mindflayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9159107&postcount=1357) - by Gorgondantess
Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638) - by Hyudra

Q

R

Rakshasa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9257676&postcount=178) - by Gorgondantess
Ravid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234635&postcount=81) - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957540&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Redcap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8603621&postcount=534) - by Draken
Reptilians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080902&postcount=1191) - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8881599&postcount=835) - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477550&postcount=171) - by Makiru
Rukanyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9252804&postcount=161) - by Makiru
Rust Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9402966&postcount=534) - by Kobold-Bard

S

Sahuagin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9072388&postcount=1164) - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234376&postcount=77) - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8885793&postcount=839) - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405362&postcount=542) - by ChumpLump
Shadowperson (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9588719&postcount=590) - by AustontheGreat1
Shaedling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660218&postcount=805) - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8913176&postcount=924) - by AustonTheGreat1
Slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8568028&postcount=445) - by Trenelus
Son/Daughter of Silence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9219759&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Soulspark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9496930&postcount=209) - by Niezck
Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9262850&postcount=196) - by Winter King
Stone giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589236&postcount=495) - by Hyudra
Sverfineblin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9479186&postcount=185) - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9148817&postcount=1307) - by Oslecamo
Tengu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9197614&postcount=1434) - by Oslecamo
Thri-Kreen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017743&postcount=128) - by Oslecamo
Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9473369&postcount=145) - by Kobold Bard
Treant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386283&postcount=485) - by Niezck
Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9211253&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Tsochar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9226721&postcount=48) - by Oslecamo

U

Unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying

V

Valkyrie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154) - By Niezck
Vargouille (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966939&postcount=56) - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7974321&postcount=75) - by Oslecamo
Vrock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940273&postcount=981) - by Gorgondantess

W

War Troll(prc) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405329&postcount=540) - by monkman
Water Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465968&postcount=77) - by AustontheGreat1
Wight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9238635&postcount=127) - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9399221&postcount=519) - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9254674&postcount=170) - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8890538&postcount=856) - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080278&postcount=1186) - by Hyudra

X

Xill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8078928&postcount=203) - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017736&postcount=127) - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951028&postcount=26) - by Oslecamo
Zern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8903096&postcount=899) - by AustontheGreat1

True Dragons:
Blue Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7941947&postcount=2) - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9261499&postcount=189) - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9317804&postcount=320) - by unknown
Golden Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187) - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260954&postcount=188) - by un_known
Red Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927061&postcount=949) - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264141&postcount=212) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8002450&postcount=108) - by Oslecamo
Styx Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234476&postcount=79) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
White Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9324083&postcount=355) - by un_known
Wing Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7962320&postcount=47) - by Oslecamo




Prestige Monster Classes

C

Creature of Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077277&postcount=1173) - by Hyudra

D

Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by Monkman

E

Evolved Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9511014&postcount=240) - by Gorgondantess

F

Feral Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472386&postcount=132) - by Niezck

G

Gravetouched Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9567011&postcount=524) - by Hyudra

H

Half-Celestial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8538254&postcount=434) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8159828&postcount=257) - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9538153&postcount=443) - by Kobold-Bard
Half-Fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535660&postcount=428) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9157221&postcount=1345) - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8842357&postcount=807) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911522&postcount=918) - by flabort
Horrid Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520824&postcount=353) - by Hyudra

L

Lich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535643&postcount=427) - by Crafty Cultist

P

Phrenic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9910955&postcount=8) - by Niezck

S

Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660268&postcount=810) - by Magicyop
Spellwarped Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911423&postcount=916) - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo

U

Ulitharid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047316&postcount=1086) - by Oslecamo
Unholy Scion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9581603&postcount=559) - by Monkman

V

Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173) - by Oslecamo

W

War Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405329&postcount=540) - by Monkman
Winged Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472231&postcount=125) - by Niezck

Therianthropes:

Wereconstrictor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werecheetah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereleopard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Werelion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereraptor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915168&postcount=39) - by Betropper
Wererat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Weretiger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereviper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 07:21 PM
Unfinished Monster Classes
{table=head]Monster|Council Approvals|Suggestions|Notes

Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669)|Magicyop|Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10031813&postcount=658)|

Maug (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)|Hyudra|Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981341&postcount=519), Zemro Shivic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9966776&postcount=488)|

Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)||Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10031813&postcount=658)|Revised Class

Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9764043&postcount=1133)|||Originally by ChumpLump

Solamith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9773475&postcount=1173)|Magicyop|Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10031813&postcount=658)|

Animated Object (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867627&postcount=50)|||

Thorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9876046&postcount=87)|Magicyop|Bladesmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9962021&postcount=464), Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10031813&postcount=658)|

Swarmshifter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915101&postcount=36)||Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10031813&postcount=658), Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981704&postcount=530)|

Wendigo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981253&postcount=518)|Hyudra|Zemro Shivic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9919831&postcount=141)|

Grell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9883082&postcount=95)||Monkman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9929626&postcount=195), Rumel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9941337&postcount=269), Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9949730&postcount=323)|

Umber Hulk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9923822&postcount=149)|Magicyop|Monkman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9929861&postcount=197), Bladesmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9963570&postcount=467), Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981704&postcount=530)|

Yellow Musk Creeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9924181&postcount=152)|||

Gibbering Mouther (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9925238&postcount=180)|Hyudra|Kajhera (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9928158&postcount=191), Monkman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9930152&postcount=200), Bladesmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9962021&postcount=464), Magicyop (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9965844&postcount=475)|

Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179202)|||

Werescorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9932318&postcount=207)|||

Pandorym (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9943992&postcount=295)|||

Lammasu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951605&postcount=371)|Hyudra||

Golden Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951670&postcount=373)|||

Dwarf Ancestor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9967230&postcount=491)||Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9965792&postcount=474)|

Jovoc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425)||Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9965792&postcount=474)|

Demilich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9954097&postcount=400)||Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9965792&postcount=474)|

Gargoyle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959382&postcount=443)||Hyudra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9965792&postcount=474)|

Remorhaz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9980073&postcount=505)|||

Manticore (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10000950&postcount=582)|||

Briarvex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10000991&postcount=583)|||

Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10021982&postcount=639)|||

Half-Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10021991&postcount=640)|||
[/table]

Called Monsters
Hagumemnon(Protean): Magicyop
Elder Evil: Magicyop
Karrash: Zemro Shivic
Wild Hunt Revision: Gorgondantess
Verdant Prince: Gorgondantess
Ethergaunt: Gorgondantess
Ultroloth: Gorgondantess?/TheGeckoKing?
Varakhat: TheGeckoKing
Vistani: Chambers
Chimera: Kobold-Bard

Requested Monsters
Ak'chazar Rakshasa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9931813&postcount=204) Mohrg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9936488&postcount=221) Cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10025861&postcount=647)

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 07:22 PM
New Monsters
Awakened Cat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959014&postcount=442): Meow!
Phrenic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9910955&postcount=8): A template to give a creature hidden psionic power, latent within its mind.
Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638): A tunneling brute built in an amazingly flavorful way.
Ankheg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9917457&postcount=99): Everyone's favorite acid-veined burrowing ant-lion!


Featured Monster: Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669)
Draining heat from the world to fill a bottomless pool of eternal chill.
This monster is unfinished, something it should not be! Whenever you have some time, take a look at whatever monster is currently featured, and give your thoughts on it. If you like it, help out this creature! Give it a nomination! If you don't, say what you'd like changed. Let's work together and see the above monster on the finished list soon.

NineThePuma
2010-12-06, 07:35 PM
The concept is interesting, but I highly recommend that -all- classes from the old threads (especially the ones that oslecamo had his hands in) be checked for balance and, most importantly, thematic accuracy. "Do the abilities shown in the class match the flavor of the lore" is one of the most important questions that should be asked.

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 07:36 PM
The concept is interesting, but I highly recommend that -all- classes from the old threads (especially the ones that oslecamo had his hands in) be checked for balance and, most importantly, thematic accuracy. "Do the abilities shown in the class match the flavor of the lore" is one of the most important questions that should be asked.

I agree completely. One of the biggest problems at the moment is not everyone has given their permission for us to link their classes, so most of the ones up there are Oslecamo's. While our focus will be on new monster classes, it's definitely worth the time to go back and revise the old ones.

monkman
2010-12-06, 09:24 PM
Magicyop, You can put my creatures (all of them as well as the unfinished ones) in this thread

Niezck
2010-12-06, 10:01 PM
Phrenic Creature
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/80500.jpg
Phrenic Creature Prerequisites
To become a Phrenic Creature, the character must meet the following requirements

Skills: 8 or more ranks in Knowledge (Psionics)
Special: Must undergo a psionic ritual whereby the mind of the creature is enhanced and unlocked.

OR:

Special: Must have been exposed to a hideous amount of psionic energies which would would normally be fatal, and survived.

Hit Dice: d4

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Phrenic Body, Phrenic Powers, +1 Cha

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Power Resistance, +1 Int/Wis

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Psionic Release, +1 Cha, +1 Int/Wis[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Phrenic Creature’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are… Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int) and Use Psionic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies: The Phrenic Creature gains no proficiencies with any weapons or armour.

Phrenic Creature Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Phrenic Creature.

Phrenic Body: Unlike other monster classes, the Phrenic Creature doesn't lose its racial ability modifiers. Its type remains the same.

It gains the (Psionic) subtype and immediately gains a single power point, regardless of whether it had access to psionics previously or not.

Stat Boosts: At 1st and 3rd levels, the Phrenic Creature gains a permanent +1 bonus to its Charisma. At 2nd and 3rd levels, the Phrenic creature can choose to either gain a permanent +1 to its Intelligence or a permanent +1 to its Wisdom. The choice made at 3rd level must be the same as the one made at 2nd. This results in a total of +2 Cha and either +2 Int or +2 Wis at 3rd level.

Phrenic Powers: At 1st level, the Phrenic Creature begins to unlock some of its psionic potential. It gains the use of a single Psi-Like Ability for every class level it has, gaining an additional PLA at 3rd. This results in a total of 4 powers at 3rd level.

The highest level power available as a PLA is equal to the Phrenic Creature's (HD/2)-1 (minmum 1). These powers are useable 1/XHD/day, where X is their highest available level. The save DC for these powers is equal to 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha modifier. Its effective manifester level for these Psi-Like Abilities equals its HD.

Each day at dawn, the Phrenic Creature may re-select the powers chosen and swap them out for any you qualify to select.

Power Resistance: At 2nd level, the Phrenic Creature gains Power Resistance equal to 11 + HD.

Psionic Release: (Su) At 3rd level, the Phrenic Creature gains the ability to unleash a torrent of raw psionic energy at its foes. Once per day per three HD, the Phrenic Creature can use this ability as a standard action. This is a ranged touch attack with a range of sixty feet that allows Power Resistance (but not Spell Resistance, even if transparency is in place). The target takes 1d6 untyped damage per 2 HD of the Phrenic Creature. If the target has a power point reserve, they lose a number of power points equal to the Phrenic Creature's HD and must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha) or become Dazed for one round.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
I'm slightly unsure of the power progression, but other than that it was a pretty simple translation from SRD to monster class.

Changelog
[07/12/10]: Changed the list of powers to a selection and added Psionic Release.
[11/12/10]: Altered Phrenic Powers to allow for repickable powers.

monkman
2010-12-06, 10:26 PM
Phrenic Creature
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/80500.jpg
Phrenic Creature Prerequisites
To become a Phrenic Creature, the character must meet the following requirements

Skills: 8 or more ranks in Knowledge (Psionics)
Special: Must undergo a psionic ritual whereby the mind of the creature is enhanced and unlocked.

OR:

Special: Must has a psionic parent.
What do you consider a psionic parent?
Hit Dice: d4

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Phrenic Body, Lesser Phrenic Powers, +1 Cha

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Moderate Phrenic Powers, Power Resistance, +1 Int/Wis

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Major Phrenic Powers, +1 Cha, +1 Int/Wis[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Phreic Creature’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are… Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int) and Use Psionic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies: The Phrenic Creature gains no proficiencies with any weapons or armour.

Phrenic Creature Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Phrenic Creature.

Phrenic Body: Unlike other monster classes, the Phrenic Creature doesn't lose its racial ability modifiers. Its type remains the same.

It gains the (Psionic) subtype and immediately gains a single power point, regardless of whether it had access to psionics previously or not.

Stat Boosts: At 1st and 3rd levels, the Phrenic Creature gains a permanent +1 bonus to its Charisma. At 2nd and 3rd levels, the Phrenic creature can choose to either gain a permanent +1 to its Intelligence or a permanent +1 to its Wisdom. The choice made at 3rd level must be the same as the one made at 2nd. This results in a total of +2 Cha and either +2 Int or +2 Wis at 3rd level.
Why cha? Why dont you just give it out full intel/wis?

Phrenic Powers: As the Phrenic Creature grows in HD, it gains access to a number of Power-Like Abilities useable a certain number of times per day as shown below. It must have the prerequisite ability to gain access to the appropriate powers.
What score governs the extra points?

{table=head]HD|Power|Uses|Prerequisite Phrenic Powers
1-2|Defensive Precognition|1/day/HD|Lesser
1-2|Force Screen|1/day/2HD|Lesser
3-4|Mind Thrust|1/day/HD|Lesser
3-4|Empty Mind|1/day/HD|Lesser
5|Body Adjustment|1/day/2HD|Lesser
6|Brain Lock|1/day/2HD|Lesser
7-8|Aversion|1/day/3HD|Moderate
7-8|Psionic Blast|1/day/3HD|Moderate
9|Intellect Fortress|1/day/HD|Moderate
10|Psychic Crush|1/day/3HD|Moderate
11-12|Psionic Dominate|1/day/4HD/|Moderate
13|Energy Current|1/day/4HD|Major
14|Tower of Iron Will|1/day/4HD|Major
15-16|Psionic Teleport*|1/day/5HD|Major
17-18|Fission|1/day/6HD|Major
19-20|Ultrablast|1/day/6HD|Major[/table]
* = At 20HD, this improves to Psionic Teleport, Greater.
This is a bit to much(too many abilities) maybe every couple of levels ,let it take an power that it wishes.
Power Resistance: At 2nd level, the Phrenic Creature gains Power Resistance equal to 11 + HD.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
I'm slightly unsure of the power progression, but other than that it was a pretty simple translation from SRD to monster class.

Changelog
No changes so far.


I think that maybe letting these levels stack with psionic class level would be a nice touch.

Magicyop,Does this critic stand with in your criteria?

un_known
2010-12-06, 10:50 PM
As the other thread shut down for a time period I would like to request the Wendigo Template.

Please and Thank You,
Un_Known

The Antigamer
2010-12-06, 11:07 PM
I respect all the creators here, and have been continually surprised by the good works produced by the community in the Improved Monster Classes project. While I can not, and will not, speak against individuals decision to split, I can ask for consideration of a less drastic means of disagreement. I'm not sure where the foundation for such an abrupt schism was formed, but I'm positive that a solution can be achieved that is satisfactory to all parties, rather than drawing a dividing line down the floor. All I ask is that the opportunity for such a solution is discussed.
Again, no disrespect to anyone, I'm just voicing my opinion that the project would be better as a single entity driven by the collective community, rather than two projects dividing the community conscience and effectiveness.

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 11:14 PM
I respect all the creators here, and have been continually surprised by the good works produced by the community in the Improved Monster Classes project. While I can not, and will not, speak against individuals decision to split, I can ask for consideration of a less drastic means of disagreement. I'm not sure where the foundation for such an abrupt schism was formed, but I'm positive that a solution can be achieved that is satisfactory to all parties, rather than drawing a dividing line down the floor. All I ask is that the opportunity for such a solution is discussed.
Again, no disrespect to anyone, I'm just voicing my opinion that the project would be better as a single entity driven by the collective community, rather than two projects dividing the community conscience and effectiveness.

We're in the process of discussing just that with Gorgon right now. The idea was not to create a drastic split, rather, we were hoping to simply go our separate ways with two different Monster Class threads with different philosophies. Based on what we have observed, we felt as though asking Gorgon to change would just result in a hellfire spitting match, and nothing changing. If there is some way we can work this out better, I think we're all probably willing to try.

And let me remind everyone-- don't ask me if you're doing something right. I am NOT leader of this thread. I have just about as much hand in what happens with it as anyone does. The only reason why I posted everything is because it was agreed that I would be the one to manage the lists and formatting and such. I do not have any special power regarding this thread.

The Antigamer
2010-12-06, 11:21 PM
We're in the process of discussing just that with Gorgon right now. The idea was not to create a drastic split, rather, we were hoping to simply go our separate ways with two different Monster Class threads with different philosophies. Based on what we have observed, we felt as though asking Gorgon to change would just result in a hellfire spitting match, and nothing changing. If there is some way we can work this out better, I think we're all probably willing to try.

And let me remind everyone-- don't ask me if you're doing something right. I am NOT leader of this thread. I have just about as much hand in what happens with it as anyone does. The only reason why I posted everything is because it was agreed that I would be the one to manage the lists and formatting and such. I do not have any special power regarding this thread.

You're thinking Gorgon's predecessor. Gorgon is much more open to change, as it should be, because Gorgon was the one who was always butting heads with Oslecamo about his heavy-handed, my-way-or-the-highway approach. I am certain that this can all be worked out, and we can get back to making monsters :smallsmile:

Niezck
2010-12-06, 11:24 PM
Believe us when we say that this was not some spur-of-the-moment idea. We've spent a good while discussing, contemplating and fine-tuning this through PMs before posting, so we are most certainly not confused or otherwise misinformed - a number of us had a similar idea due to a variety of reasons and decided to act upon it.

But, as Magicyop says, discussions with Gorgondantess are ongoing and hopefully this situation can be resolved.

Magicyop
2010-12-06, 11:29 PM
It seems for now the best thing to do is to do as Gorgon did and temporarily shut down both threads. So, let's say that this hasn't officially started yet. There's no promises that we won't go through with this, but we're all going to discuss.

Temotei
2010-12-07, 12:53 AM
Go ahead and take the allip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9468452&postcount=105), ettin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471641&postcount=121), and nimblewright (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471896&postcount=123) if you'd like to.

Kobold-Bard
2010-12-07, 03:19 AM
Dunno if you wanted actual permission or were assuming you had it unless stated, but if it's the former then use mine all you like.

Can't say I'm a fan of splitting this concept up, but c'est la vie.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 11:28 AM
Okay, after discussing with some of the fellow creators of this thread, I think we're saying it's fully started now. Post whatever you want.

Phrenic Creature: On a brief glance, it looks quite fun. However, I might suggest cutting back the PLAs a little bit, just like Monkman said. I know they're all in the base class, but I think it gets a little crazy to keep track of. Personally, I'd enjoy some cool "option" here-- like a psionic Monster of Legend. Maybe fill out Level 3 with that?

AugustNights
2010-12-07, 11:39 AM
Officially requesting the creation of a Demilich (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm).

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 11:56 AM
Officially requesting the creation of a Demilich (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm).

Yes. Oh, yes! I can't wait to see that.

Could you post the Class Template you PMed to us earlier on this thread, when you get a chance? It would come in very handy. Further, can I request that you add a field for both 1) whether it is a base or prestige monster class, for easy classification, and 2) what source it is from. (Monster Manual III, Manual of the Planes, or if Homebrew, a link to the source. Something like that.) I think both would be really helpful. Thanks very much.

Almost done updating the thread with all the monsters we've been given permission to use.

Niezck
2010-12-07, 12:47 PM
Perhaps granting a single PLA per HD of a level equal to (HD/2)-1 (min 1)?

Also, Monkman, it grants Cha because the original template gives +2 Int, +2 Wis and +4 Cha. I couldn't jam-pack all of that in, so I added the cha as standard (since it's the larger) and the choice of the int or wis.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 12:51 PM
@Niezck
Looks good. I feel it needs to stack with existing psionics in some way, but is shouldn't end up a full manifesting prc, because otherwise everyone and everything psionic will take it. Maybe a bonus if you already have manifester levels?

Niezck
2010-12-07, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't feel all that happy about making it psionics-friendly really. The fluff of the template is that of a naturally psionic creature in an otherwise non-psionic race. And, not trained psionics, just wild manifestations.

This quote will get the point across better:


Seemingly no different from standard examples of their kind, phrenic creatures harbor mental might.

Monsters who naturally possess psionic ability are not found as phrenic creatures. Phrenic creatures are freaks among their kind, otherwise normal creatures whose minds are more powerful than those of their fellows. Similarly, creatures who advance by character class are usually not phrenic creatures—they simply take levels in a psionic class to hone their mental powers.

More specifically the last part. This isn't a template for the ordered psions and wilders to further their powers, it's an entirely different thing, wild manifestation of raw psionic power.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 01:05 PM
So, it's a freak of creation? Oooooo, that makes sence. It's just, with the requirements you got, it looks like it's inherited/intentional. Maybe just change that, and your golden.

Niezck
2010-12-07, 01:06 PM
Alrighty, any suggestions for the requirements and/or the 3rd level ability?

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 01:09 PM
I got a prerequirement right here : Must of been exposed to a hideous amount of psionic energies which would would normally be fatal, and survived. Gives it that mutant feel.

And as for the 3rd level ability.......it needs something explody to reflect on it's raw power. Think mini Psi-Hadouken, something SHOOP DA WHOOP-y........Psicannon Blast, or something.

AugustNights
2010-12-07, 01:13 PM
Tastes like 'Spellwarped' chicken to me. And I like it. Psionic Pollution. Oh the fun that could be had!

Zemro
2010-12-07, 01:18 PM
Phrenic Creature: It seems fairly solid and straightforward overall, I have one main problem with the PSAs, and you can see that below. Here are my thoughts:
I find the blue kinda distracted, reason behind that choice?
Probably could specify what a 'psionic parent' is, though your intent is clear.
Missed an 'n' in 'Phrenic' in the class skills table.
I'm assuming the PLA DCs are Cha based since it's a mandatory stat, need to specify though.
Also, how the creature's manisfester level is determined needs to be specified.
Correct term is 'Psi-like Abilities'
Also, my hesitation at the table comes from the fact that PSA are considered to be augmented with power points equal to your manifested (ie the maximum).
At present, if manifester level for the PLAs equals hit die, a one level investment in the class nets the equivalent of 90pp worth of powers at level five. So a Fighter 4/Phrenic 1 would have 65pp more than a Psion 5 (bonus power points from a Int not accounted for). Said fighter would have 1750pp worth in abilities at Fghter 19/Phrenic 1
So, manifester level definitely needs to be clarified. I may also need to be corrected or enlightened if I've skipped something. But first look makes me a bit bug-eyed.

I would also appreciate critique for my Thorn class, which I could move over to this thread if it would make things more convenient? There's a link in the unfinished monsters spoiler above, though.

EDIT: This post took a bit to write, checking above posts now, but leaving it as is currently.
EDIT2: Ah, excellent, PSA were addressed, points struck through.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 01:21 PM
@Zemro

You do whatever you feel like doing. Dunno about the others, but I don't mind where the class is, personally.
EDIT: Was gonna post my Swarmshifter, but it looks hideously broken to me while it's on my Word doc, so i'm going for plan B - The Umber Hulk.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 01:33 PM
I got a prerequirement right here : Must of been exposed to a hideous amount of psionic energies which would would normally be fatal, and survived. Gives it that mutant feel.

And as for the 3rd level ability.......it needs something explody to reflect on it's raw power. Think mini Psi-Hadouken, something SHOOP DA WHOOP-y........Psicannon Blast, or something.

Love it. Imma Firin' Mah LAZOR! :smalltongue:

Will go through and offer my thoughts on the unfinished monster soon, anybody who would do the same for the Living Spell would be much appreciated. I'm still working on adding new abilities for the Animated Object, and some clarifications must be added for Anima, specifically the Living Hand track.

Essentially what I'm going to do is for the "hand" spells, when you effect someone with your Anima, you may choose to grapple/bull rush/etcetera, whatever the hand allows, them. So, if you slam someone, you would deal a slam attack, then make a grapple attempt as a free action (well, really as part of the slam.) Sound okay to everyone?

GeckoKing, I'd really like to see the Swarmshifter. It's an awesome template. I'm really curious to see what you've done with it. Just my opinion, though.

Niezck
2010-12-07, 01:33 PM
There's no need to re-post anything here, I don't think.

I'll add in that prerequisite and address the issue Zemro brought up.

Still looking for suggestions for the 3rd level power! :smallsmile:

I've added a Shoop-y power, tell me what you think :smallsmile:

Volthawk
2010-12-07, 01:45 PM
Well, if this division has to happen, I may as well work in both threads. Yeah, anything I've made is alright to use.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 01:47 PM
There's no need to re-post anything here, I don't think.

I'll add in that prerequisite and address the issue Zemro brought up.

Still looking for suggestions for the 3rd level power! :smallsmile:

I've added a Shoop-y power, tell me what you think :smallsmile:

Love it. One suggestion, I think you should change it to a line attack. With a range of 10 ft. per HD?

Also, I'm not sure I understand how the Phrenic Powers work now. I can choose ANY power? So, at 9 HD I could have 1/day Reality Revision?

Actually, I rather like the idea of being able to choose any power, but it needs to be more limited based on your HD. Perhaps powers of a maximum level of 1/2 your HD - 2?

Hey, also, I nominate the Bleakborn. It's cool and looks fun to me. :smallsmile:

Niezck
2010-12-07, 01:51 PM
*Epic facepalm*

I totally forgot to put in the level cap. Added that now.

I'm not so sure about line attacks, it makes them so much easier to defend against. Things tend to have relatively low touch AC unless they're really optimizing it, but a simple ring of evasion and a decent save shuts down a line attack entirely - nevermind things with Improved Evasion.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 01:55 PM
*Epic facepalm*

I totally forgot to put in the level cap. Added that now.

I'm not so sure about line attacks, it makes them so much easier to defend against. Things tend to have relatively low touch AC unless they're really optimizing it, but a simple ring of evasion and a decent save shuts down a line attack entirely - nevermind things with Improved Evasion.

But Line is so much cooler... in my opinion. Ranged touch attack makes me think of a sickly little pencil thin line of light. Line attack makes me think of a huge beam of blue energy piercing a battlefield.

But, you know, your monster.

I like the class overall now-- can you choose the same PLA multiple times to get more uses?

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 01:56 PM
The Swarmshifter

Libris Mortis p124
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/libris_gallery/84774.jpg

Class Abilities:
Requirements: Must be a corporeal undead of at least 3HD.

The Swarmshifer candidate must endure a three day process of being sealed in a coffin/sarcophagus, eaten by insects contained inside, and having them absorb your tainted essence, converting them into your own new body.

HD: d12
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features
1|+0|+0|+0|+0|Buzzing Flesh, Friend of the Plague, Swarm Form[/table]

Skills: 2+Int Mod, none.

Buzzing Flesh (Ex): You keep your previous typing, and you gain the Shapeshifter and Augumented types along with any other types you may have.

Friend of the Plague (Ex): From now on, you are immune to any Swarm’s distraction abilities, and do not take damage from standing in a swarm. Also, as long as the Swarm-Shifter does not attack the swarm(s), no Unintelligent (Int 2 or lower) swarm will make any attempt to attack the Swarm-Shifter. This ability does not affect swarms with more HD than you.

Swarm Form (Su): Once per day per 2HD, you may turn into a swarm of pestilent vermin as a Move Action. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here.

Firstly, you may only turn into any swarm that is on your list of Swarm Forms.
Your Swarm Form ability lasts for 1 hour per HD, or until you change back. Changing form (to a swarm or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Any gear worn or carried by yourself melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the swarm form reappear in the same location on your body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at your feet.

You lose your ability to speak while in Swarm Form because you are limited to the sounds that a normal untrained swarm can make (an annoying chatter), but you can communicate normally with other swarms. If your swarm form would be dispersed, you instantly reform to your normal form on the square you were dispersed from, and take 1d10 damage (no save).

At 2HD, your swarm form’s size is one space smaller than yours, regardless of the original swarm's size. At 5HD, your swarm form's size is equal to your own. At 10HD, it becomes one size bigger than your own. At 15HD it is two sizes bigger than your own, and at 20HD it is 3 sizes bigger than your own. Your Swarm Form's size may not be any bigger than Colossal. If you would try to turn into a creature bigger than Colossal, then you become a Colossal sized version of that creature instead. You may still turn into a smaller sized swarm when using this ability, if you so wish to.

When you take your 1st level in Swarmshifter, you may pick a number of Monsters with the Swarm subtype equal to your HD/4, with a max CR of your HD-1 each, and they are added to the list of swarms you can turn into with your Swarm Form ability. Your list of possible swarm forms is restricted to one swarm for every 4 HD you have. For every HD that is a multiple of 4 you gain (8, 12, 16, 20 ect...) you may pick another Swarm (with the same max CR of HD-1) to add to the list.

Comments:
Oh yeah. When you see people turn into swarms for kicks and giggles, they've taken this class. Even the living ones. They're all Gentle Repose'd Necropolitans. Honest. It offers a wide variety of swarm forms, for all occasions so you don't feel stuck to one high-op'd form in a small list. Enjoy!

Changelog:
7/12/10: Added the (awful) skill points, and lowered the BaB12/12/10 - Limited the swarms you can become, and specified how shifting works.
16/12/10 - Basically, fixed some typos, made Friend of the Plague scale, and it's got less forms to pick from.
19/12/10 - Fixed some wording typos.
23/12/10 - Less forms now, and fixed the wording slightly
13/01/11 - Limited forms (1/4HD), and edited the text for Grammar Goodness.

Niezck
2010-12-07, 01:58 PM
But Line is so much cooler... in my opinion. Ranged touch attack makes me think of a sickly little pencil thin line of light. Line attack makes me think of a huge beam of blue energy piercing a battlefield.

But, you know, your monster.

I like the class overall now-- can you choose the same PLA multiple times to get more uses?

See, RTA to me is like a big ol' blast of lightning or something, whereas a line is something more akin to a controlled explosion down a hallway or something.

I guess it could were you to choose the same power twice. I hadn't really thought about that, but I see no reason not to.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 02:04 PM
Swarmshifter: What did you think the problem is? That looks great! My only quibble is, why does it have full BaB? Other than that, I have no issues.

Phrenic Creature: Well, looks awesome now, at least to me. I think I'll probably regret nominating this monster so easily, but I don't have any problems with it. So, yeah, I'll nominate it.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 02:08 PM
Ah, might as well join this one. Like these concepts better.


Also, you forgot to include this class, which was actually approved by chumplump before the split:

Wereraptor
http://images.elfwood.com/art/i/s/isabelle/darkclaw_cold_desert.jpg

Prerequisites:

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another wereraptor and contracted lycanthropy

HD: d8
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|Alternate form (Raptor), Raptor empathy, Lunar body, Raptor Traits, Graceful Leap
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|Alternate form (hybrid), Lunar hide
3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|+1 Wis, Raptor teamwork, Growth
4th|+3|+1|+4|+1|Curse of lycantropy, Swift blows[/table]


Skills: (4+Int modifier) Intimidate (Cha) Spot (Wis) Survival (Wis) Jump (Str) Listen (Wis) Hide (Dex) Handle Animal (Wis) Knowledge (Nature) (Int)

Proficiencies: A wereraptor gains proficiency with their own natural weapons.

Features:

Lunar body(ex): Wereraptors retain old racial modifiers and gain the shapechanger subtype. They gain low-light vision if they did not already possess it.
A wereraptor gains natural armor equal to its con bonus while in raptor or hybrid form. While in humanoid form their natural armor is equal to half their con bonus

Raptor empathy: A wereraptor can communicate with raptors (and other raptor-like magical beasts) regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on charisma based checks to influence such animals, however he gains no bonus on influencing magical beasts.

Alternate Form(su):At first level, a wereraptor can take on a medium raptor form by using a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action. While in raptor form, a wereraptor cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands, but gains two talon attacks dealing 1d6+Str damage, moves at a speed of 60 ft and he gains a bite attack that does 1d8+Str damage.

A wereraptor can transform 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

Unlike normal creatures with Alternate Forms the Wereraptor gains the hit points increase from any change to its Constitution.

For every level in wereraptor, or for every two in another class, the wereraptor's alternate form improves as shown below

{table=head]Wereraptor level +1/2 other levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+1 Dex +1 Str
3|+2 Dex, +1 Str
4|+2 Dex, +2 Str
5|+3 Dex, +2 Str
6|+3 Dex, +3 Str
7|+4 Dex, +3 Str
8|+4 Dex, +4 Str
9|+5 Dex, +4 Str
11|+5 Dex, +5 Str
11|+6 Dex, +5 Str
12|+6 Dex, +6 Str[/table]


At second level, a wereraptor can assume hybrid form. They can wield any weapons they could use in humanoid form and are able to speak. A wereraptor in alternate form gains a +4 bonus to jump checks.

Raptor Traits: A wereraptor in raptor form gains scent and gains a bonus on all hide skill checks equal to half his HD. This increases to a hide bounus equal to his full HD if the wereraptor makes a full-round action to hide. At second level his Raptor Traits ability works regardless of form.

Graceful Leap At first level, a Wereraptor in alternate form can easily jump over certain obsticals. He may charge over climbable objects 5 feet or smaller as long as the wereraptor spends the same amount of movement that he would use to climb it normally.

Lunar hide: At second level, a wereraptor gains DR/Silver equal to their HD/2 while in alternate form.

Growth: At 3rd level, a wereraptor's raptor form can become Large or Medium. In addition their natural armor improves by 1 while in alternate form.

A wereraptor of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A wereraptor of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending three normal transformations.

A wereraptor of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Raptor teamwork: Starting at third level a wereraptor learns how to more successfully work with others. He gains an extra +1 bonus to aid another rolls that he makes. This also applies to anyone attempting to use aid another on him. The wereraptor also gains a +3 bonus to attack rolls against an opponent he is flanking. This flanking bonus is also given to the other flankers flanking that opponent. These abilities are only useable in raptor form

Swift blows: At fourth level a wereraptor learns how to observe effectively and take advantage of weakness. He gains a +1 bonus to hit for every consecutive attack of the same type against the target. For example, if you delivered an attack in the previous round, you would gain a +1 attack bonus this round. if you struck the foe with an attack in the round after, it would go to +2 If you connected in the subsequent round, it would be +3, and so on. This caps at 1.5 times the HD of the wereraptor (ie. +6 max at 4HD). This ability is only useable in Hybrid form.

Curse of lycanthropy: At 4th level a wereraptor can transmit lycanthropy to other creatures. If a medium or large humanoid or giant is hit by their natural attacks while they are in alternate form, the creature must make a fortitude save (DC10+1/2HD+Con modifier) or contract lycanthropy. For more information on lycanthropy, check the lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.


Changelog:
Edited last skill to have two pathways.
Small grammar edits.
Made raptor form have abilities hybrid does not.
Added 6 more levels.
Balanced stomach damage and spells per day/maw of the titans by HD.
made con a more important stat.
Took ChumpLump's advice and balanced stats, saves, HD, and size.
Took more advice and edited last two skills, removed improved grab, and made a 6/6 perfection on stats.
made sneak attack need a jump, took out capstone and added a new one, and fixed size adjustments accordingly.
Edited size, claw damage, and sneak pounce skill to just flanked opponents.
Re-did last 2 skills.
Re did them again.
Buffed up animal form & changed last ability.
Made fixes according to ChumpLump's advice (too lazy to write down all now :P)


Comments:
Big. Freakin'. Dino. The simplicity of this class is amusing because it's very narrow, just Charge, Pounce, and tear at a nervous system.

IDK, haven't read the new rules all the way, will do so now.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 02:08 PM
Right, lower the BaB........*sprays his drink* :smalleek: It's ok? Really? I thought saying "Here, pick whatever CR appropriate swarm you like, and go crazy" would get me funny looks.

AugustNights
2010-12-07, 02:08 PM
Formatting Your Monster

[Monster Name]
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx295/AugustNight/Img.png
[Monster Name] A [Prestige/Base] Character Class.

[Monster]* Prerequisites (If Applicable)
To become a [Monster], the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Whatever Race may be required.
Other: Whatever that may be.
Special: Whatever that may be.

Hit Dice: dx

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

2nd|
+x|
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3rd|
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4th|
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5th|
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6th|
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7th|
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8th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

9th|
+x|
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+x|Class Ability

10th|
+x|
+x|
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11th|
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+x|Class Ability

12th|
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13th|
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14th|
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15th|
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16th|
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17th|
+x|
+x|
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18th|
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19th|
+x|
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20th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability[/table]
Skills Points at 1rst Level: (x+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (x+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The [Monster]’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are… [Fill in your Monster’s Class skills alphabetically and with the Key Ability Abreviated in parenthesis here.

The [Monster]’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Each listed individually), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Psicraft (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Truespeak (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

Proficiencies: The [Monster] gains proficiency with the following weapons, armor, and shields. (If your [Monster] gains a natural weapon, it is a good idea to mention that it becomes proficient with it.)

[Monster] Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the [Monster].

Class Feature: Starting at Xth level the [Monster] gains the ability to…

Class Feature: Upon reaching Xth level the [Monster] gains the access to…

Class Feature: At Xth level the [Monster] learns to…

Class Feature: Beginning at Xth level the [Monster] can use …

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
[Source] of Monster (I.E. MMI, MMIII, or Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15) with link!
Your initial thoughts and concerns with you monster class.

Changelog
You will do yourself more favors than harm if you list in detail your changes.

Good Example:

12/5/2010 Added Full Base attack Bonus, Removed Obscene Ability Class feature for Much More Reasonable Attack Class Feature.
12/6/1786 Fixed the Flux Capacitor attack so that it only targets one creature.
12/7/2010 Removed Craft (Silly Examples) from Class Skills.

Example that makes your fellow Monster Crafter’s job more difficult:

Took Robrexor’s Advice. Fixed Monster.




Copy & Paste Format:


[Monster Name]
IMG URL HERE
[Monster]* Prerequisites (If Applicable)
To become a [Monster], the character must meet the following requirements

Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.
Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.
Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.

Hit Dice: dx

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

2nd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

3rd|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

4th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

5th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

6th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability

7th|
+x|
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+x|
+x|Class Ability

8th|
+x|
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+x|Class Ability

9th|
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+x|Class Ability

10th|
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+x|Class Ability

11th|
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+x|Class Ability

12th|
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+x|Class Ability

13th|
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+x|Class Ability

14th|
+x|
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+x|Class Ability

15th|
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+x|Class Ability

16th|
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+x|Class Ability

17th|
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18th|
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19th|
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+x|Class Ability

20th|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Class Ability[/table]
Skills Points at 1rst Level: (x+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (x+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The [Monster]’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Each listed individually), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Psicraft (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Truespeak (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

Proficiencies: The [Monster] gains proficiency with the following weapons, armor, and shields. (If your [Monster] gains a natural weapon, it is a good idea to mention that it becomes proficient with it.)

[Monster] Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the [Monster].

Class Feature: Starting at Xth level the [Monster] gains the ability to…

Class Feature: Upon reaching Xth level the [Monster] gains the access to…

Class Feature: At Xth level the [Monster] learns to…

Class Feature: Beginning at Xth level the [Monster] can use …

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
[Source]

Changelog



Tables and Tools
Save Progressions
{table=head]Good|Average*|Bad
2|0|0
3|0|0
3|1|1
4|1|1
4|2|1
5|2|2
5|3|2
6|3|2
6|4|3
7|4|3
7|5|3
8|5|4
8|6|4
9|6|4
9|7|5
10|7|5
10|8|5
11|8|6
11|9|6
12|9|6[/table]
*Average Saves are Wonky, and recommended against more often than not.

Base Attack Bonus
{table=head]Good|Average|Bad
1|0|0
2|1|1
3|2|1
4|3|2
5|3|2
6|4|3
7|5|3
8|6|4
9|6|4
10|7|5
11|8|5
12|9|6
13|9|6
14|10|7
15|11|7
16|12|8
17|12|8
18|13|9
19|14|9
20|15|10[/table]

Spellcasting
A [Monster] that is designed to multiclass into a Caster/Manifester/Ect class can count its [Monster] levels as levels of that class for purposes of Caster Level, of Caster Level, Spells Known, and Ability to cast spells per day as if it had gained a level in That Particular Class. Usually a Monster Class Gains the Spellcasting of the Specified Spell caster equal to its HD-1.


Example’s Secret Begging at second level an [Example] may learn and cast spells as a Sorcerer of class level equal to the [Monster]’s Class Level-1. Its caster level is equal to the [Monster]’s Class level.

Virtual Spellcasting:
Similar to Spellcasting, Virtual spell-casting allows a [Monster]to skip levels of a particular spell casting class. When muliticlassing as the specified class the [Monster] may add its [Monster]’s Class Level to it’s Spellcaster Class level to determine its new Spells Known, Spells Per Day, and Caster level, however it does not gain the benefits of the class levels skipped.


Virtual Exemplar Begging at first level, if a [Example] multiclasses as a Sorcerer, it may add its [Example] level to its Sorcerer level to determine its spells known, spells per day, and caster level. (If L.2 [Example] took a level of Sorcerer, it would gain the new spells per day, and spells known of a 3rd level Sorcerer, but it would not gain the spells per day or known that a L.1 or L.2 Sorcerer gains. However it would be considered a L.3 Caster.)

Should it be a Prestige or a Base Class?
If is a template, it should be a prestige class, otherwise it should be a Base Class.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 02:11 PM
Formatting Your Monster


God, sometimes you're so awesome I can't speak.

I have two things that I think you might change: First, as I said before, it would be nice to have a field by the name, or somewhere, that says where the monster is from, and links to the original monster, if it is homebrew.

Secondly, I think you should note that sometimes non templates can be PrCs, such as in the case of those which expand upon a base monster. Like, War Troll done as a PrC for Troll. Ulitharid done as a PrC for Mind Flayer.

Zemro
2010-12-07, 02:15 PM
I made some comments on the Bleakborn in the previous thread, so if those have been addressed I'm willing to give it my nomination.

Phrenic Creature looks much better, though with the present wording it seems to me like it gets PSA for it's current HD and not future ones. Since I know this isn't the intent, maybe clarify that a bit?

I'm going to crunch some more numbers, hopefully before my next class, and depending on how those go and the above, I may then be willing to nominate.


@Zemro
You do whatever you feel like doing. Dunno about the others, but I don't mind where the class is, personally.

Cool, if you've got no issues with it, perhaps I could entreat your nomination then?

On the template, I gotta ask, why the blue?

Betropper
2010-12-07, 02:27 PM
I know this might sound like I'm out-of-date, but what exactly was the argument? The only reason I'm with you guys right now is because I like your method of critiquing more.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 02:34 PM
I know this might sound like I'm out-of-date, but what exactly was the argument? The only reason I'm with you guys right now is because I like your method of critiquing more.

I think we'd all prefer not to discuss this too deeply, and leave the whole affair behind. But on a basic level, the previous leader had been rigidly disrespectful and insulting of both people's classes, and the people themselves. Let's leave it at that.

Wereraptor is added to the list, sorry for the mistake.

Living Spell is updated. What do you all think?

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 03:15 PM
Hi guys! Long forum lurker here, but after seeing this thread I finally decided to join so I could contribute to this awesome project I've been following for some time, since the new rules seem quite newbie-friendly! Plase be gentle, this is my first homebrew.:smallredface:

Wendigo (prc)
http://nanacu.cafe24.com/tt/attach/1/1265782915.jpg


REQUIREMENTS:
To qualify to become a Wendigo, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: animal, giant, humanoid, magical beast, or monstruous humanoid.
Special:Must have his Wisdom reduced to 0 by Wendigo's hunger, OR perform a special ritual that demands they spend three days walking trough a forest or tundra whitout stoping for resting, eating or drinking.

HD: d6
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+0|+0 | + 2|Stumped Body, Maddenning Whispers, Stalking Paranoia, Primal Insticts
2|+ 1|+0|+0 | + 3| Wind Walk, Regeneration, Wendigo Hunger, Ravenous Bite, +1 Dex.
[/table]

Skills: 2+Intelligence modifier per level, class skills are Balance, Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Listen , Knowledge (nature) Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival.

Proficiencies: The Wendigo becomes proficient with his bite attack.

Stumped body: Unlike other monster classes, the Wendigo doesn't lose his racial ability modifiers, but his type changes to Fey and it gains the cold subtype (immunity to cold, +50% damage from fire effects). Do not re-calculate anything. The Wendigo gains a bite attack dealing 1d6 plus 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus if it's a medium sized creature, adjust damage acordingly for other creature sizes.

Also, when gaining this template, the creature starts running with such speed that it's feets/paws burn away into charred bloody stumps that cannot be healed, but the Wendigo becomes able to float just above ground at a speed of 10 feet per HD. If the Wendigo has 6 HD or more, he can instead fly with perfect maneuverability with that speed.

Finally, the Wendigo gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC, that stacks with one other deflection bonus from a single source of the player's choice, like a ring of deflection.

Maddenning Whispers:1/day per HD, as a standard action, the Wendigo may whisper insane thoughts into a target creature whitin 10 feet per HD. Only the target creature can hear them, and they must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier) or take 1d3 wisdom damage. This wisdom damage increases one die size for every 4 HD of the Wendigo.

At 8 HD it becomes Wisdom Drain.

At 12 HD it deals half Wisdom Drain even if the victim suceeds on the save.

At 16 HD it can affect creatures immune to ability drain, but it deals half drain on a failed save and no drain on a sucessfull save.

This is neither a fear or mind-affecting ability, but raw natural chaos (aka untyped).

Stalking Paranoia:Just because others can't see it doesn't mean he isn't there. As a swift action the Wendigo may select a creature on his field of vision that hasn't detected the Wendigo. That creature takes -2 on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saves as the Wendigo lurks just at the corner of the victim's field of vision, making them paranoid. This penalty lasts untill the target detects the Wendigo or the Wendigo loses sight of the target. Only one target at a time.

For every 5 HD the wendigo has, this penalty increases by an extra -1.

Primal Insticts:The Wendigo hunting senses are sharpened to the extreme. He gains a bonus on Hide, Move Silently and Survival checks equal to half his HD.

Sky Walk:At 2nd level, the Wendigo can use Wind Walk as a SLA on himself 1/day for every HD it has as a move action. It can still use his Maddenning Whispers ability while incorporeal. It can only float above ground unless it has 4 or more HD.

Regeneration: At 2nd level the Wendigo gains regeneration equal to half his HD, bypassed by fire. It cannot regrow or re-attach lost limbs however.

Wendigo Hunger:At 2nd level, creatures biten by the Wendigo must now make a Fortitude (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier) save or contract a supernatural diseases, Wendigo's hunger.


It incubates for 1d3 days and deals 1d3 Wisdom damage for each day it lingers. Every time Wisdom damage is taken from this, the afflicted creature must make a Will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha modifier or start to hunger for his own race's flesh. The creature will use any means at it's disposal to stalk and kill a member of his own race in secret, feed on it's flesh, and then return to his normal life while forgeting everything since he failed the Will save.

Creatures reduced to 0 Wis by this disease gain the Wendigo template, but they also become mad and race to the wilderness to stalk their own victims.


In adition, when a living or undead creature is bitten by the Wendigo in battle, it must make a will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod or spend it's next turn trying to bite the nearest creature it can see, be it friend or foe. If the creature doesn't have a bite attack it will try to grapple the neatest creature instead.

Ravenous Bite:At 2nd level the Wendigo's bite now threatens a critical on a 18-20 and deals triple damage on a sucessfull critical.

Ability Score Increase: The Wendigo gains +1 Dex at second level.



Comments/Changelog:

Comments

The Wendigo is the dark side of natural hunger, a creature that stalks his own and forever roams searching his next victim, driving them to the brink of desesperation before delivering the final blow.

First level gives the iconic maddening whispers and stumped body plus skill bonus. Second level gives the wind walk, disease and regeneration.

I improved the disease to make it combat-worthy by forcing biten oponents to resist or be overcome by hunger themselves. Particulary good against caster-types, not that good against big monsters with big bite attacks.

Since it has a lot of abilities low saves, Bab and limited skill points and no new proefeciencies besides the bite.

You can only actualy start flying at 6th level for balance purposes, but Wind-Walk flight comes online at 4th level since it's much more limited.


Changelog

7/12/2010:
-Corrected several grammar errors.
-Made Maddening whispers 4/day per HD.



This was requested by un_known

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 03:32 PM
Hi guys! Long forum lurker here, but after seeing this thread I finally decided to join so I could contribute to this awesome project I've been following for some time, since the new rules seem quite newbie-friendly! Plase be gentle, this is my first homebrew.:smallredface:

Welcome, welcome! Yes, ideally, they are newbie-friendly. A quick glance shows me that for your first monster class, this is actually really, really well done. Looks very fun. In general, I love the flavor, and the class features seem to balance fun and bonuses well. Below I have quoted the class, and added my comments in red.


Wendingo (prc) Wendigo, not Wendingo. Although a Wendigo Dingo would be really awesome. :smalltongue:


REQUIREMENTS:
To qualify to become a Wendigo, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: animal, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstruous humanoid. Right now this reads as you have to be all of these types simultaneously. Adding an "or" would be nice.
Special:Must have his Wisdom reduced to 0 by Wendigo's hunger, OR perform a special ritual that demands they spend three days walking trough a forest or tundra whitout stoping for resting, eating or drinking.

HD: d6
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+0|+0 | + 2|Stumped Body, Maddenning Whispers, Stalking Paranoia, Primal Insticts
2|+ 1|+0|+0 | + 3| Wind Walk, Regeneration, Wendingo Hunger, Ravenous Bite, +1 Dex.
[/table]

Skills: 2+Intelligence modifier per level, class skills are Balance, Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Listen , Knowledge (nature) Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Wilderness Lore.

Proficiencies: The Wendingo becomes proficiencient with his bite attack. Proficient, I think you accidentally added an extra cient. Also, you typed Wendingo again.

Stumped body: Unlike other monster classes, the Wendingo doesn't lose his racial ability modifiers, but his type changes to Fey and it gains the cold subtype (immunity to cold, +50% damage from fire effects). Do not re-calculate anything. The Wendingo gains a bite attack dealing 1d6 plus 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus if it's a medium sized creature, adjust damage acordingly for other creature sizes. Well done, looks like a good body feature to me.

Also, when gaining this template, the creature starts running with such speed that it's feets/paws burn away into charred bloody stumps that cannot be healed, but the Wendingo becomes able to float just above ground at a speed of 10 feet per HD. If the Wendigo has 6 HD or more, he can instead fly with perfect maneuverability with that speed. Nicely done!

Finally, the Wendingo gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to his Cha modifier.

Maddenning Whispers:As a standard action, the Wendigo may whisper insane toughts into a target creature whitin 10 feet per HD. Only the target creature can hear them, and they must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier) or take 1d3 wisdom damage. This wisdom damage increases one die size for every 4 HD of the Wendigo. thoughts, not toughts. Otherwise, looks like a great ability to me. My only issue is, should it really be at will? I think you should make it have a number of uses per day.

At 8 HD it becomes Wisdom Drain.

At 12 HD it deals half Wisdom Drain even if the victim suceeds on the save.

At 16 HD it can affect creatures immune to ability drain, but it deals half drain on a failed save and no drain on a sucessfull save.

This is neither a fear or mind-affecting ability, but raw natural chaos.

Stalking Paranoia:Just because others can't see it doesn't mean he isn't there. As a swift action the Wendingo may select a creature on his field of vision that hasn't detected the Wendigo. That creature takes -2 on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saves as the Wendigo lurks just at the corner of the victim's field of vision, making them paranoid.

For every 5 HD the wendigo has, this penalty increases by an extra -1. Wow, that's really cool. Quite fun.

Primal Insticts:The Wendigo hunting senses are sharpened to the extreme. He gains a bonus on Hide, Move Silently and Wilderness Lore checks equal to half his HD. Just a bonus, but it's a good bonus. I like it.

Sky Walk:At 2nd level, the Wendigo can use Wind Walk as a SLA on himself 1/day for every HD it has as a move action. It can still use his Maddenning Whispers ability while incorporeal. It can only float above ground unless it has 4 or more HD.

Regeneration: At 2nd level the Wendigo gains regeneration equal to half his HD, bypassed by fire. A little on the powerful side, but good.

Wendingo Hunger:At 2nd level, creatures biten by the Wendigo must now make a Fortitude (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier) save or contract a supernatural diseases, Wendigo's hunger. No more wendingos! :smalltongue: Otherwise, good.


It incubates for 1d3 days and deals 1d3 Wisdom damage for each day it lingers. Every time Wisdom damage is taken from this, the afflicted creature must make a Will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha modifier or start to hunger for his own race's flesh. The creature will use any means at it's disposal to stalk and kill a member of his own race in secret, feed on it's flesh, and then return to his normal life while forgeting everything since he failed the Will save.

Creatures reduced to 0 Wis by this disease gain the Wendigo template, but they also become mad and race to the wilderness to stalk their own victims.


In adition, when a living or undead creature is biten by the Wendigo in battle, it must make a will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod or spend it's next turn trying to bite the nearest creature it can see, be it friend or foe. If the creature doesn't have a bite attack it will try to grapple the neatest creature instead.

Ravenous Bite:At 2nd level the Wendigo's bite now threatens a critical on a 18-20 and deals triple damage on a sucessfull critical. Just remember that it's bitten, not biten, and successful, not sucessfull. Otherwise, some good class features, seems balanced to me.

Ability Score Increase: The Wendingo gains +1 Dex at second level.



Comments/Changelog:

Comments

The Wendingo is the dark side of natural hunger, a creature that stalks his own and forever roams searching his next victim, driving them to the brink of desesperation before delivering the final blow.

First level gives the iconic maddening whispers and stumped body plus skill bonus. Second level gives the wind walk, disease and regeneration.

I improved the disease to make it combat-worthy by forcing biten oponents to resist or be overcome by hunger themselves. Particulary good against caster-types, not that good against big monsters with big bite attacks.

Since it has a lot of abilities low saves, Bab and limited skill points and no new proefeciencies besides the bite.

You can only actualy start flying at 6th level for balance purposes, but Wind-Walk flight comes online at 4th level since it's much more limited.


Changelog
Nothing yet

This was requested by un_known



Overall, looks like a great template. I applaud you for doing so well on your first monster class.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 03:49 PM
Overall, looks like a great template. I applaud you for doing so well on your first monster class.

Thanks! Yay!:smallbiggrin:

Also changed the maddenning whispers to be 4/day per HD. I didn't intend it to be at will, but completely forgot to put a limit.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 03:53 PM
You can of course put in my grell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9883082&postcount=95) if you want, but it is unfinished and needs a couple more goings-over, as well as formatting and a pretty picture. :smallwink: Perhaps I should just repost it.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 04:00 PM
Thanks! Yay!:smallbiggrin:

Also changed the maddenning whispers to be 4/day per HD. I didn't intend it to be at will, but completely forgot to put a limit.

4/day per HD is a lot. Maybe 1/day per 2 HD? If you have a good reason why you'd like it to be more often, please tell me! :smallsmile:

Grell added to unfinished list. I'll look over the rest of the monsters on that list soon.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 04:01 PM
I do like that Wendigo. It's Stalking Paranoia reminds me of something I did ages ago, and the fact it can chatter into people's heads to drive them mad is wicked. Even if they succeed on the save.....did they really hear thoes noises? Did they? Did they not? I do like it.

Now, is the Swarmshifter OK? Because I really want to repost the Awakened T-Rex for it to be finished up, then the Umber Hulk, and then.....Pandoryrm......:smalleek:.......

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 04:03 PM
I do like that Wendigo. It's Stalking Paranoia reminds me of something I did ages ago, and the fact it can chatter into people's heads to drive them mad is wicked. Even if they succeed on the save.....did they really hear thoes noises? Did they? Did they not? I do like it.

Now, is the Swarmshifter OK? Because I really want to repost the Awakened T-Rex for it to be finished up, then the Umber Hulk, and then.....Pandoryrm......:smalleek:.......

If you like it, make sure to nominate!

Everyone make sure, if you're homebrewing for this project, that you check down the list of unfinished monsters from time to time, and either nominate or make suggestions. If you have no suggestions to improve a monster, you should likely nominate it.

Yeah, I like the swarmshifter. Seems okay to me. I'll nominate it.

Volthawk
2010-12-07, 04:05 PM
Hmm...I'm considering having a go at the Demilich.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 04:08 PM
Hmm...I'm considering having a go at the Demilich.

Please do. Would be awesome. :smallamused:

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 04:08 PM
4/day per HD is a lot. Maybe 1/day per 2 HD? If you have a good reason why you'd like it to be more often, please tell me! :smallsmile:

Grell added to unfinished list. I'll look over the rest of the monsters on that list soon.

I'd probably emulate the ghoul's paralysis, and consider making it 2xHDxCharisma bonus times per day, myself. But perhaps I'm overly fond of the ghoul's paralysis. :smalltongue:

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 04:10 PM
4/day per HD is a lot. Maybe 1/day per 2 HD? If you have a good reason why you'd like it to be more often, please tell me! :smallsmile:

Put it at 1/day per HD. I would like it to be at least like this because I feel like it's the Wendigo's signature attack, but 1d3/1d4 wisdom damage isn't very usefull if you can only inflict it once in a battle, in particular because it allows a save. Two uses at 2nd level may take down an animal oponent. Four uses at 4th level may take down an humanoid oponent.


Also the swarmshifter looks ready to go, I'll nominate it! One single level adds a ton of variety to pretty much any character and allows for a lot of cool character concepts!

EDIT: There's a Maug at the Death Knight link. It isn't on the finished monsters but was done by Monkman. Shouldn't it also be up to revisions?

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 04:13 PM
Okay... I promise I'm not blitz nominating.

But I'll nominate both the Thorn and the Wendigo. Both are really well made. I promise, I looked over them both really well and I can't really think of obvious ways they could be improved. And, after all, if we take an ultra long time to get each monster on the list, we'll never get anywhere.

On an unrelated note... I have edited both the Living Spell and the Animated Object. If you all could look them over and either give me suggestions, or nominate them, I'd be eternally grateful. Thank you all! :smallsmile:

EDIT: DarkEnar, both the Maug and Death Knight link lead to the same post, which includes both monsters. Both are in the unfinished list. :smallsmile:

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 04:38 PM
Right, I've had a quick look over both classes, but you've got one big class and a medium class, so I can't nominate them.....yet.

However, in my novice opinion, the Living Spell looks O.K, so I'll have a better look over it later. The Animated Object also looks O.K, but again, big class and lots of customizability so I think i'd have to devote more time to look over it. But overall, keep it up!

Also, yeah. I nominate the Wendigo. Cool class, indeed.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 04:41 PM
On an unrelated note... I have edited both the Living Spell and the Animated Object. If you all could look them over and either give me suggestions, or nominate them, I'd be eternally grateful. Thank you all! :smallsmile:


I kinda think that they're too big on a bad sense. They offer too much options. It's hard to read trough all of them in one swoop, so it's hard to have a proper view of the class as a whole.

I also think you went a little overboard on the animated object, making it more of an animated "minor artifact". Stuff like geting any single spell at will (even if it's low level) or creating infinite items seems to be just screaming for abuse.

This is, lv1 scrolls and potions are both quite cheap yet powerfull if you have an almost infinite stock of them. And what would exactly happen when you have multiple barrels of alchemist's fire? Not to mention simply selling all that minor stuff to buy bigger stuff.

Combine it with Distributed Consciousness and you kinda have an artificer on steroids. The class seems to be screaming to take some "time out", cough out some lv1 thousands of scrolls and potions and abuse minor buffs.

Besides, when I think animated object, I think Big Thing to smash stuff or little spy trinket or agile assassin rope. The "minor artifact" abilities are geting on the way of that. You should probably divide the class in two, one for those who want combat animated objects and other for those who want to be minor artifacts with a sentience.

You should probably do that for the living spell as well. All those options in the same place kinda get on the way of each other, and my brain just can't stop itself from pondering all the possible combinations and I start geting confused.:smallfrown:

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 04:42 PM
Or..........make an Animated Artifact Prc. Because that would be cool.
The Living Spell LOOKS complicated, but it should make sence if Magicyop explains it. Hopefully.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-07, 04:45 PM
Can the Styx dragon be updated?

please?

update here. Styx dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9905425&postcount=158)

Nothing big changed. Just spell checked it and clarified some stuff.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 04:47 PM
Regarding Animated Objects, a photograph is a slightly odd selection of example objects. :smalltongue:

It's excellent to have a choke attack possible on something other than a choker. The monopoly ends! Or perhaps it was already over and I didn't notice.

'Substance Conjuration' starts with 'Substance' and changes to 'Liquid' later on. Which is it?

I'm rather hesitant on the item creation (Magic Cupboard). A platinum coin a round is a pretty impressive income for a first-level character.

Orcish Made has a pretty dramatic invulnerability. Less movable than an immovable rod.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 04:48 PM
I kinda think that they're too big on a bad sense. They offer too much options. It's hard to read trough all of them in one swoop, so it's hard to have a proper view of the class as a whole.

I also think you went a little overboard on the animated object, making it more of an animated "minor artifact". Stuff like geting any single spell at will (even if it's low level) or creating infinite items seems to be just screaming for abuse.

This is, lv1 scrolls and potions are both quite cheap yet powerfull if you have an almost infinite stock of them. And what would exactly happen when you have multiple barrels of alchemist's fire? Not to mention simply selling all that minor stuff to buy bigger stuff.

Combine it with Distributed Consciousness and you kinda have an artificer on steroids. The class seems to be screaming to take some "time out", cough out some lv1 thousands of scrolls and potions and abuse minor buffs.

Besides, when I think animated object, I think Big Thing to smash stuff or little spy trinket or agile assassin rope. The "minor artifact" abilities are geting on the way of that. You should probably divide the class in two, one for those who want combat animated objects and other for those who want to be minor artifacts with a sentience.

You should probably do that for the living spell as well. All those options in the same place kinda get on the way of each other, and my brain just can't stop itself from pondering all the possible combinations and I start geting confused.:smallfrown:

How can you get infinite scrolls and potions? Huh?

At will abilities don't seem bad to me. They're extremely low level, and they represent that the ability is innate, you're not drawing on some wellspring of power, you have that spell written somewhere within your pages.

I'm not sure where you're getting the thousands of potions and scrolls thing from, but yeah, that'd be crazy powerful. That's not the point of the class.

I think that dividing it into two classes is a bad idea... D&D isn't all combat, and I think it's fine to have a class which mixes combat utility with non-combat utility. I don't understand what you mean when you say "minor artifact abilities", could you clarify?


For the living spell, it's really not that complicated, it just may take a moment to wrap your head around at first. Basically, you choose a track, or at higher levels, up to three. Based on your level, you get one of the spells from each of those tracks. When you punch your enemies, you effect them with your spells.

Rinse and repeat.

EDIT: Oh, okay, I see what you're all saying. The Magic Cupboard ability is too powerful. The idea was not to create infinite money, but rather, "need a bottle of wine? Yup, right in here." sort of thing. For all the basic mundane equipment. Maybe I could state that you can only have one item produced by the cupboard at a time, and if you create another, the previous item falls to dust?
EDIT2: Styx Dragon revision has been put up.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 04:54 PM
I'm going to start working on a Yuan-Ti class, I'm going to look now to see if it's been done.

EDIT: It's been done. Maybe another class... I'll think...

Also, /nominate Wendigo

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 04:54 PM
That still encounters the problem of a scroll a round / potion a round ... specify nonmagical item, and it should work fine.

Edit: Nominate Wendigo, looks good to me too.

Edit 2: Also specify non-magical for Substance Creation, and perhaps put a duration on how long a liquid removed from a 'Substance Conjuration' object lasts.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 05:01 PM
Might make the Multi-headed class template, probably will end at level 6.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:01 PM
That still encounters the problem of a scroll a round / potion a round ... specify nonmagical item, and it should work fine.

Edit: Nominate Wendigo, looks good to me too.

Edit 2: Also specify non-magical for Substance Creation, and perhaps put a duration on how long a liquid removed from a 'Substance Conjuration' object lasts.

Mm... for Substance Conjuration, it was intended permanent, and allowing magical substances. Essentially, a Decanter of Endless Water. Infinite potion of cure light wounds isn't that bad, because unlike magic cupboard, the bottle has to take a standard action to use that. It's just like giving it an at-will Cure Light Wounds.

Specified nonmagical for Magic Cupboard. Also, changed the order of the abilities a little bit, to put the ones almost every Animated Object can choose at the top, and make it hopefully less confusing.

Wendigo has all four amateur nominations, now it just needs two expert nominations and it's ready to go up.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 05:03 PM
Mm... for Substance Conjuration, it was intended permanent, and allowing magical substances. Essentially, a Decanter of Endless Water. Infinite potion of cure light wounds isn't that bad, because unlike magic cupboard, the bottle has to take a standard action to use that. It's just like giving it an at-will Cure Light Wounds.

Specified nonmagical for Magic Cupboard. Also, changed the order of the abilities a little bit, to put the ones almost every Animated Object can choose at the top, and make it hopefully less confusing.

Wendigo has all four amateur nominations, now it just needs two expert nominations and it's ready to go up.

Yes, but how many experts do we actually have here? We might have to change it to 6 normal nominations and maybe a single expert to go up.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:07 PM
Yes, but how many experts do we actually have here? We might have to change it to 6 normal nominations and maybe a single expert to go up.

We worked out this system very well when we were designing this thread. We have at least Niezck and ChumpLump, who are both active and both helped in designing the thread. Not to mention anyone who helps from the old thread, such as K-B, Crafty Cultist, or Monkman.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 05:08 PM
Mm... for Substance Conjuration, it was intended permanent, and allowing magical substances. Essentially, a Decanter of Endless Water. Infinite potion of cure light wounds isn't that bad, because unlike magic cupboard, the bottle has to take a standard action to use that. It's just like giving it an at-will Cure Light Wounds.

Specified nonmagical for Magic Cupboard. Also, changed the order of the abilities a little bit, to put the ones almost every Animated Object can choose at the top, and make it hopefully less confusing.

Wendigo has all four amateur nominations, now it just needs two expert nominations and it's ready to go up.

Infinite potion of cure light wounds isn't bad, until someone bottles and sells it. :smallwink:

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:09 PM
Infinite potion of cure light wounds isn't bad, until someone bottles and sells it. :smallwink:

Could just as easily bottle water and sell it in the desert. Could just as easily bottle fine wine and sell it. Cure Light Wounds isn't worth that much.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 05:12 PM
How can you get infinite scrolls and potions? Huh?


Magic Cupboard ability. It says it can create any item worth 10 GP per HD or less. It doesn't specify if they're mundane items or not. Lv1 Scrolls are 25 a piece.

Alternatively, spend some hours producing gems, sell, buy stuff, rinse and repeat.



At will abilities don't seem bad to me. They're extremely low level, and they represent that the ability is innate, you're not drawing on some wellspring of power, you have that spell written somewhere within your pages.

The psionic ones is bad because of the way PLAs work. They auto-augmentate themselves for free to the highest level possible. And there's lots of low level psionic powers that can be augmentated to much stronger effects. Astral construct for example.

When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level

So if I pick crystal ressonance at every chance, I'm a psion wich knows half his normal powers, but can use them at will at full augmentation.

Also by that logic, shouldn't a wizard's spellbook allow the wizard to cast the spells written there at will?



I think that dividing it into two classes is a bad idea... D&D isn't all combat, and I think it's fine to have a class which mixes combat utility with non-combat utility. I don't understand what you mean when you say "minor artifact abilities", could you clarify?

Well the original animated object is something created by a mid-level spell. But if the animate objects spell could do half the stuff your class allows, it would be polymorph-level broken due to the insane variety it would allow. Your animated object can only be balanced by you being an unique being created by a special event, not actualy a semi-spammable spell available to spellcasters. Thus you're a minor artifact, something other players cannot create.

Also stabbity. For one single object power you sneak attack as well as a rogue on top of all your other abilities. Isn't that kinda unfair for all rogue-type classes?



For the living spell, it's really not that complicated, it just may take a moment to wrap your head around at first. Basically, you choose a track, or at higher levels, up to three. Based on your level, you get one of the spells from each of those tracks. When you punch your enemies, you effect them with your spells.


Hmm, I see it now, excellent work, a little heavy on the first read but I can't see a better way to put it... So, living spell nominated!

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:18 PM
Magic Cupboard ability. It says it can create any item worth 10 GP per HD or less. It doesn't specify if they're mundane items or not. Lv1 Scrolls are 25 a piece.

Alternatively, spend some hours producing gems, sell, buy stuff, rinse and repeat.

See the above discussion, Magic Cupboard is fixed now.



The psionic ones is bad because of the way PLAs work. They auto-augmentate themselves for free to the highest level possible. And there's lots of low level psionic powers that can be augmentated to much stronger effects. Astral construct for example.

When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level

So if I pick crystal ressonance at every chance, I'm a psion wich knows half his normal powers, but can use them at will at full augmentation.

Also by that logic, shouldn't a wizard's spellbook allow the wizard to cast the spells written there at will?

Well, maybe I can just remove the ability to take all of those more than once. Once and done.



Well the original animated object is something created by a mid-level spell. But if the animate objects spell could do half the stuff your class allows, it would be polymorph-level broken due to the insane variety it would allow. Your animated object can only be balanced by you being an unique being created by a special event, not actualy a semi-spammable spell available to spellcasters. Thus you're a minor artifact, something other players cannot create.

You're... not really a minor artifact. The problem is, the original Animate Object is... lame. It's boring. It's flat. It's not something that a player could have fun with.

Okay, it's created by a 5th level spell. Who cares? You're not creating NPCs with high levels in this class. The idea is for players to play the class. No DM would allow their wizard to use Animate Objects to create an object with class levels. The spell produces the object specified in the monster manual.


Also stabbity. For one single object power you sneak attack as well as a rogue on top of all your other abilities. Isn't that kinda unfair for all rogue-type classes?

Maybe, but first of all, rogue is pretty underpowered to begin with. Second of all, you don't get all the other abilities of the rogue. But, okay, I'll reduce it to either 1d6 per 3 HD or 1d4 per 3 HD. Something like that.




Hmm, I see it now, excellent work, a little heavy on the first read but I can't see a better way to put it... So, living spell nominated!

Hurrah, thank you!

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 05:25 PM
Could just as easily bottle water and sell it in the desert. Could just as easily bottle fine wine and sell it. Cure Light Wounds isn't worth that much.

Thinking about this raises another question: What does the 5gp worth of the substance refer to? An ounce of it? A pint?

Edit: I'd say keep it a d6. :smalltongue: Much prettier to calculate my rogue/letter opener's sneak attack if all the dice are the same size.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:30 PM
Thinking about this raises another question: What does the 5gp worth of the substance refer to? An ounce of it? A pint?

Edit: I'd say keep it a d6. :smalltongue: Much prettier to calculate my rogue/letter opener's sneak attack if all the dice are the same size.

A dose of the substance. So, one potion of X basically. Whatever amount of substance is required to have an effect.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 05:34 PM
A dose of the substance. So, one potion of X basically. Whatever amount of substance is required to have an effect.

Seems all right, then, now that I've done some math on when you get things. :smalltongue:

Edit: On a side note, looks like no one's done the Ankheg. Well, suppose it would have to be Awakened Ankheg or some equivalent.

monkman
2010-12-07, 05:44 PM
Hi guys! Long forum lurker here, but after seeing this thread I finally decided to join so I could contribute to this awesome project I've been following for some time, since the new rules seem quite newbie-friendly! Plase be gentle, this is my first homebrew.:smallredface:

Wendigo (prc)
http://nanacu.cafe24.com/tt/attach/1/1265782915.jpg


REQUIREMENTS:
To qualify to become a Wendigo, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: animal, giant, humanoid, magical beast, or monstruous humanoid.
Special:Must have his Wisdom reduced to 0 by Wendigo's hunger, OR perform a special ritual that demands they spend three days walking trough a forest or tundra whitout stoping for resting, eating or drinking.

HD: d6
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+0|+0 | + 2|Stumped Body, Maddenning Whispers, Stalking Paranoia, Primal Insticts
2|+ 1|+0|+0 | + 3| Wind Walk, Regeneration, Wendigo Hunger, Ravenous Bite, +1 Dex.
[/table]

Skills: 2+Intelligence modifier per level, class skills are Balance, Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Listen , Knowledge (nature) Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Wilderness Lore.

Proficiencies: The Wendigo becomes proficient with his bite attack.

Stumped body: Unlike other monster classes, the Wendigo doesn't lose his racial ability modifiers, but his type changes to Fey and it gains the cold subtype (immunity to cold, +50% damage from fire effects). Do not re-calculate anything. The Wendigo gains a bite attack dealing 1d6 plus 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus if it's a medium sized creature, adjust damage acordingly for other creature sizes.

Also, when gaining this template, the creature starts running with such speed that it's feets/paws burn away into charred bloody stumps that cannot be healed, but the Wendigo becomes able to float just above ground at a speed of 10 feet per HD. If the Wendigo has 6 HD or more, he can instead fly with perfect maneuverability with that speed.

Finally, the Wendigo gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to his Cha modifier.
I strongly discourage this,the difference between this and natural armor is that with the Cha deflection is that You could just invest all that you can and still be able to do things
A sorcerer would be a perfect example,He could have mediocre stats in everything and have a ton of Cha, and then he would be able to practically melee.

Maddenning Whispers:1/day per HD, as a standard action, the Wendigo may whisper insane thoughts into a target creature whitin 10 feet per HD. Only the target creature can hear them, and they must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier) or take 1d3 wisdom damage. This wisdom damage increases one die size for every 4 HD of the Wendigo.

At 8 HD it becomes Wisdom Drain.

At 12 HD it deals half Wisdom Drain even if the victim suceeds on the save.

At 16 HD it can affect creatures immune to ability drain, but it deals half drain on a failed save and no drain on a sucessfull save.

This is neither a fear or mind-affecting ability, but raw natural chaos.
What would *raw natural chaos* mean?

Stalking Paranoia:Just because others can't see it doesn't mean he isn't there. As a swift action the Wendigo may select a creature on his field of vision that hasn't detected the Wendigo. That creature takes -2 on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saves as the Wendigo lurks just at the corner of the victim's field of vision, making them paranoid. This penalty lasts untill the target detects the Wendigo or the Wendigo loses sight of the target. Only one target at a time.

For every 5 HD the wendigo has, this penalty increases by an extra -1.

Primal Insticts:The Wendigo hunting senses are sharpened to the extreme. He gains a bonus on Hide, Move Silently and Wilderness Lore checks equal to half his HD.
I dont think that there is something called*wilderness lore* unless it's in a special book(if it is,please tell me).I might be better with Survival or Knowledge (nature)

Sky Walk:At 2nd level, the Wendigo can use Wind Walk as a SLA on himself 1/day for every HD it has as a move action. It can still use his Maddenning Whispers ability while incorporeal. It can only float above ground unless it has 4 or more HD.

Regeneration: At 2nd level the Wendigo gains regeneration equal to half his HD, bypassed by fire.
I think that Fast healing might work better,I cant really see this thing regenerating limbs and such.

Wendigo Hunger:At 2nd level, creatures biten by the Wendigo must now make a Fortitude (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier) save or contract a supernatural diseases, Wendigo's hunger.


It incubates for 1d3 days and deals 1d3 Wisdom damage for each day it lingers. Every time Wisdom damage is taken from this, the afflicted creature must make a Will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha modifier or start to hunger for his own race's flesh. The creature will use any means at it's disposal to stalk and kill a member of his own race in secret, feed on it's flesh, and then return to his normal life while forgeting everything since he failed the Will save.

Creatures reduced to 0 Wis by this disease gain the Wendigo template, but they also become mad and race to the wilderness to stalk their own victims.


In adition, when a living or undead creature is bitten by the Wendigo in battle, it must make a will save with DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod or spend it's next turn trying to bite the nearest creature it can see, be it friend or foe. If the creature doesn't have a bite attack it will try to grapple the neatest creature instead.

Ravenous Bite:At 2nd level the Wendigo's bite now threatens a critical on a 18-20 and deals triple damage on a sucessfull critical.

Ability Score Increase: The Wendigo gains +1 Dex at second level.
Maybe a Cha bonus as well?(at level 1)



Comments/Changelog:

Comments

The Wendigo is the dark side of natural hunger, a creature that stalks his own and forever roams searching his next victim, driving them to the brink of desesperation before delivering the final blow.

First level gives the iconic maddening whispers and stumped body plus skill bonus. Second level gives the wind walk, disease and regeneration.

I improved the disease to make it combat-worthy by forcing biten oponents to resist or be overcome by hunger themselves. Particulary good against caster-types, not that good against big monsters with big bite attacks.

Since it has a lot of abilities low saves, Bab and limited skill points and no new proefeciencies besides the bite.

You can only actualy start flying at 6th level for balance purposes, but Wind-Walk flight comes online at 4th level since it's much more limited.


Changelog

7/12/2010:
-Corrected several grammar errors.
-Made Maddening whispers 4/day per HD.



This was requested by un_known



Not bad for a first creature. for some reason it kinda seems overpacked with Abilities for a second level class(but that's just me)

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:45 PM
Seems all right, then, now that I've done some math on when you get things. :smalltongue:

Edit: On a side note, looks like no one's done the Ankheg. Well, suppose it would have to be Awakened Ankheg or some equivalent.

Is that a nomination? Or are there still other things you think need to be changed? :smalltongue:

Working on Protean right now... It'll be fun, I promise you. Yes, it'll be another long class, (you know I do like me some long classes) but it won't be as complex as the Living Spell. I've got the level 29 capstone being essentially allowing it to shift its form as an immediate action whenever it wants, however many times it wants. So, it could hit an enemy with a dragon's claw attack to bypass damage reduction, and then before damage is rolled, transform it into a giant's fist for large damage.

There's more to it than that, and I think it will be more balanced than it sounds. But trust me, it'll be cool. I think. I hope. Am I the only one who finds the master of all shapechangers cool? :smalltongue:

EDIT: I agree with most of Monkman's comments on the Wendigo, with the exception of the Cha Bonus. While he's completely right about its strength, all incorporeal creatures get it, and thus it comes with the subtype.

Also, I agree with monkman about not regenerating limbs, however, I can see the power of the regeneration ability. Perhaps keep regeneration instead of fast healing, but specify that it may not regrow limbs.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 05:52 PM
See the above discussion, Magic Cupboard is fixed now.

Ok. So what about Substance Conjuration? Fill it with diamond dust for endless profit? You should state a minimum mass of the substance placed inside.



Well, maybe I can just remove the ability to take all of those more than once. Once and done.

The psionic option is still far superior to the divine and arcane ones. Some examples:
-Vigor is 5 extra HP per HD. False life is 1d10+1 per HD(max +10).
-Psi charm person will be augmented to dominate monster level. Magic charm person stays as it is.
-Astral construct I to IX, compared to summon monster I.



You're... not really a minor artifact. The problem is, the original Animate Object is... lame. It's boring. It's flat. It's not something that a player could have fun with.

Okay, it's created by a 5th level spell. Who cares? You're not creating NPCs with high levels in this class. The idea is for players to play the class. No DM would allow their wizard to use Animate Objects to create an object with class levels. The spell produces the object specified in the monster manual.

You're quite right, the original animated object is too dull, the class version needed lots of love.:smallredface:



Maybe, but first of all, rogue is pretty underpowered to begin with. Second of all, you don't get all the other abilities of the rogue. But, okay, I'll reduce it to either 1d6 per 3 HD or 1d4 per 3 HD. Something like that.


Well you don't gain the other abilities of the rogue, but you keep gaining other animated object powers. Also roguish monsters on this project need to actualy take levels on their classes to receive sneak attack. 1d6 per 3 HD seems much fairer.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 05:53 PM
Protean Scourge is cool.

No nomination until you decide on a Stabbity. :smalltongue:

Wendigo is not incorporeal, but I wouldn't mind keeping its bonus CHA-deflection (as per how it normally is). Sorcerers don't exactly suffer from having a decent Constitution, either.

monkman
2010-12-07, 05:54 PM
Is that a nomination? Or are there still other things you think need to be changed? :smalltongue:

Working on Protean right now... It'll be fun, I promise you. Yes, it'll be another long class, (you know I do like me some long classes) but it won't be as complex as the Living Spell. I've got the level 29 capstone being essentially allowing it to shift its form as an immediate action whenever it wants, however many times it wants. So, it could hit an enemy with a dragon's claw attack to bypass damage reduction, and then before damage is rolled, transform it into a giant's fist for large damage.

There's more to it than that, and I think it will be more balanced than it sounds. But trust me, it'll be cool. I think. I hope. Am I the only one who finds the master of all shapechangers cool? :smalltongue:

EDIT: I agree with most of Monkman's comments on the Wendigo, with the exception of the Cha Bonus. While he's completely right about its strength, all incorporeal creatures get it, and thus it comes with the subtype.

Also, I agree with monkman about not regenerating limbs, however, I can see the power of the regeneration ability. Perhaps keep regeneration instead of fast healing, but specify that it may not regrow limbs.
First thing,I'm looking forward to critiquing you master of shapes.
Second,Would you please point me out(Or quote) where it says that the wendigo becomes incorporeal

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 05:59 PM
Ok. So what about Substance Conjuration? Fill it with diamond dust for endless profit? You should state a minimum mass of the substance placed inside.

However much the DM decides a vial of Diamond Dust is worth? 250 GP, usually, right? You can only do a substance worth 5 GP per HD, you would need to be level 50 to summon infinite Diamond Dust.


The psionic option is still far superior to the divine and arcane ones. Some examples:
-Vigor is 5 extra HP per HD. False life is 1d10+1 per HD(max +10).
-Psi charm person will be augmented to dominate monster level. Magic charm person stays as it is.
-Astral construct I to IX, compared to summon monster I.

Fair enough, how do you propose it is fixed?



Well you don't gain the other abilities of the rogue, but you keep gaining other animated object powers. Also roguish monsters on this project need to actualy take levels on their classes to receive sneak attack. 1d6 per 3 HD seems much fairer.


Protean Scourge is cool.

No nomination until you decide on a Stabbity. :smalltongue:

Yup, that's changed.


Wendigo is not incorporeal, but I wouldn't mind keeping its bonus CHA-deflection (as per how it normally is). Sorcerers don't exactly suffer from having a decent Constitution, either.


First thing,I'm looking forward to critiquing you master of shapes.
Second,Would you please point me out(Or quote) where it says that the wendigo becomes incorporeal

Oops, my mistake. For some reason I thought I read somewhere that it gained the incorporeal subtype. My bad.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 06:14 PM
monkman:Well on the deflection bonus, nat armor doesn't really fit the Wendigo as it's an air fey. Also I think sorcerors have better things to do than dip Wendigo, wich doesn't upgrade their spellcasting or their charisma.

Wilderness Lore should be survival, already corrected that.:smallredface:

"Raw natural chaos" is a fluffy way of saying "untyped".

Changed regeneration to don't restore limbs as sugested by Magicyop

As for charisma bonus, well, I just can't see how becoming a Wendigo makes your more charismatic, but if you insist I'll add it.

Wow, I never noticed this threads moved so fast!:smalleek:
Well I supose that's a good sign.:smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2010-12-07, 06:18 PM
I've got the level 29 capstone being essentially allowing it to shift its form as an immediate action whenever it wants, however many times it wants. So, it could hit an enemy with a dragon's claw attack to bypass damage reduction, and then before damage is rolled, transform it into a giant's fist for large damage.
Uhm. Aren't Immediate's 1/round? on someone else's round?
Also, don't you kinda work out damage and DR at the same time?

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 06:20 PM
I'm almost content enough with Animated Object to nominate it. Not sure how to weaken Astral Construct without nerfing blasty powers, but, well, you're an animated object - if you get one power that can climb to 9th level heights, it's appropriate enough for it to be your power to sculpt random things.

monkman
2010-12-07, 06:22 PM
monkman:Well on the deflection bonus, nat armor doesn't really fit the Wendigo as it's an air fey. Also I think sorcerors have better things to do than dip Wendigo, wich doesn't upgrade their spellcasting or their charisma.

Wilderness Lore should be survival, already corrected that.:smallredface:

"Raw natural chaos" is a fluffy way of saying "untyped".

Changed regeneration to don't restore limbs as sugested by Magicyop

As for charisma bonus, well, I just can't see how becoming a Wendigo makes your more charismatic, but if you insist I'll add it.

Wow, I never noticed this threads moved so fast!:smalleek:
Well I supose that's a good sign.:smalltongue:

Darkenar, Most monster classes are used in gestalt games(most of them high leveled), So it would be very tempting for any cha using class(bard,dread necromancer,Sorcerer,Favored soul,Etc) to just take a 1 level dip just to get that ability.

For "Raw natural chaos" Put an() beside it and write untyped,I would think that people would get confused.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 06:23 PM
Uhm. Aren't Immediate's 1/round? on someone else's round?
Also, don't you kinda work out damage and DR at the same time?

That's the point, is that it gets the ability to use its morphing ability essentially as an immediate-free action, and allows it to change at any time it likes. Normally, you work out damage and DR at the same time, yes, but the idea is that whatever order you do things in in real time, you can interrupt that at any time to morph. So if the combat list goes:

1) Does the creature have DR?
MORPH!
2) Does the attack overcome the DR?
MORPH!
3) How much damage does the attack deal?



I'm almost content enough with Animated Object to nominate it. Not sure how to weaken Astral Construct without nerfing blasty powers, but, well, you're an animated object - if you get one power that can climb to 9th level heights, it's appropriate enough for it to be your power to sculpt random things.

Maybe I'll just make it so you only get the one power when you take the ability.

Lix Lorn
2010-12-07, 06:25 PM
...I guess... I just don't see how that works in fluff terms.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 06:26 PM
Sounds good.

Now I want to play an animated masterwork crystal chisel with the ability to chip astral constructs out of the air. :smallsmile:

Nominated! To make sure I can do that well.

monkman
2010-12-07, 06:47 PM
Animated Object
Base Monster Class
Monster Manual
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG13.jpg

Hit Dice: d10
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+0|Inanimate Body, Object Power
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+0|Tough Shell, +1 Str
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+1|Object Power, +1 Str
4th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Hidden Life, Object Power
5th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Object Power, +1 Str
6th|+4|+5|+2|+2|Never Alive, +1 Str
7th|+5|+5|+2|+2|Object Power
8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+2|Distributed Consciousness, Object Power, +1 Str
9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+3|Object Power, +1 Str
10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+3|Magic Item
[/table]
Skills: 2 + Int modifier, Animated Object class skills are Appraise, Balance, Climb, Concentration, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(Any), Listen, Move Silently, Perform(self), Profession(any), Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble.

Proficiencies: An Animated Object is proficient with its natural slam attack, but otherwise gains no new proficiencies with weapons or armor.

Inanimate Body: The Animated Object loses all other racial modifiers and receives the Construct type, small size, 20 ft. movement speed, and a natural slam attack dealing 1d4 + Str modifier damage. It is capable of fine manipulation.

It has all the characteristics of the construct type:
No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, ability damage, fatigue or exhaustion, or energy drain.
Cannot heal damage on its own, although it can be healed.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Never being alive to begin with, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. It can only be revived by a wish, limited wish, miracle.
Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

The Animated Object may choose to be any mundane nonmagical item, worth no more than 100 GP per HD, and of a size no greater than the Animated Object is allowed to be. You may change size whenever you could change into a new object. Every time you level up, you may reselect what object you are.

The Animated Object may grow, but is not required to. It may be any size indicated that it may be on the following table, but no larger. It may only change size when it levels up.
1 HD: Small size
3 HD: Tiny size
5 HD: Medium size
9 HD: Large size
11 HD: Diminutive size
13 HD: Huge size
17 HD: Gargantuan size
19 HD: Fine size
21 HD: Colossal size
25 HD: Colossal+ size
27 HD: Fine- size


Object Power: Depending on what object it is, the Animated Object has various special abilities. At each level indicated, you may choose one of the following abilities, as long as you meet the prerequisites. If the type of object you are changes such that you no longer qualify for some of your abilities, you may reselect those in favor of those you now qualify for. At any time you may spend a feat slot to gain another ability.

Dwarven Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are sturdily built, and able to overcome enemies through force. You gain the powerful build ability. You may not gain this ability more than once.

Elven Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are elegantly built, and able to gracefully dance out of the way of blows. You gain the sleight build ability. You may not gain this ability more than once.

Halfling Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You gain a 10 ft. bonus to your movement speed and a +3 bonus on reflex saves. Further, you gain the effects of a permanent freedom of movement spell.
Permanent Fom? I think that there is a ring that cost 20 thousand(or 40 thousand,I forget)This could be quite overpower at lower levels.
Orcish Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You gain a +3 bonus on fortitude saves. Further, you are immune to any effect which would attempt to move you against your will, such as telekinesis or bull rush.
I think a bonus VS these thing would be better.

Gnomish Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are ridiculously complicated and able to achieve functions which no one would have believed possible. You may select up to three Object Power abilities which you do not normally qualify for, but only if the requirement you are bypassing is based on what type of object you are. This ability does not give you those abilities, it simply allows you to select them like you would select one which you qualify for.

Goblin Made
Requirements: Must not have any of the other 'made' abilities.
Effect: You are made of bamboo, or straw, or wood, and it seems impossible that you could actually be able to perform the function you are designed for. Select up to three abilities which you possess. (These could be slamming, bull rushing, or anything of that sort.) These abilities are lowered in the time it takes to complete them, from a full-round action to a standard action, from a standard action to a move action, or from a move action to a swift action.
What happens if it's a swift action?

Sturdy Construction
Requirements: Hardness.
Effect: You gain 2 additional Hardness, and an armor bonus to AC equal to ½ your HD. If your Hardness is increased to that of a different material, you may choose to take on the other properties of that material, though you may be constructed of only one material at a time.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time gaining 2 Hardness and +1 to your armor bonus.
What happens if somehow Your wearing armor?Wouldn't natural armor be better?(A type of statue wearing armor would be a nice example)
Heavy Slam
Requirements: None
Effect: Your slam attack increases in damage by 1 step, and you may choose to either increase its critical range by 1, or its critical modifier by 1. Further, after the first application of this ability, you add 1½ times your strength modifier to your slam attack.
Special: You may take this ability multiple times, each time increases the damage by 1 step and either the critical range or critical modifier by 1.
What happens with improved critical? Does it go before or after
(Before critical is 19-20,After is 17-20 Or After critcal 19-20,With this ability 18-20)

Strong Arm
Requirements: Must have multiple appendages which you do not use for movement, and must have more of such appendages than you currently do slam attacks.
Effect: You gain another slam attack with one of your appendages. For example, a candelabra with three candles could gain this ability twice, for a total of three slam attacks.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, but no more times than you have appendages. You may never have more slam attacks than available appendages.

Grasper
Requirements: Must be an object which is in some way naturally flexible, such as a carpet, blanket, or rope.
Effect: You gain the Constrict ability, which allows you to deal damage equal to your slam damage plus 1½ times your Strength modifier on a successful grapple check. Furthermore, an object may grapple and make constriction attacks against multiple creatures at once, as long as they are all small enough that they can fit together in the Animated Object's space.

Mow Through
Requirements: Hardness 5, Str 14.
Effect: You gain the Trample ability, allowing you to attack enemies simply by moving through their space. They must be no larger than you, but you attack any enemies whose square you move through, dealing damage equal to your slam damage plus 1½ times your Strength modifier. Enemies who you would attack may choose either to make an attack of opportunity against you, or to make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ HD + Strength Modifier) to avoid you.

Controlled Hovering
Requirements: Sheetlike object such as a blanket or sheet of paper, 6 HD
Effect: You are light enough that you may manipulate air currents to float through the air. However, you are effected doubly by wind conditions. You gain a fly speed equal to ¼ your base land speed with clumsy maneuverability.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your flight speed increases by ¼ of your land speed. So, two applications would make your flight speed ½ your land speed, six would make it 1½ times your land speed. Every two applications increases your maneuverability one step.
What happens when there is wind?(Spell or natural)
Ignite
Requirements: Must be an object able to be ignited, such as a candle or lantern.
Effect: All of your slam attacks gain bonus fire damage equal to your HD. Additionally, you cast bright light at a radius of 5 ft. per HD, and shadowy light at a range of 5 ft. per HD beyond that.
Special: You may take this ability more than once, each time, your bright light and shadowy light ranges both increase by 5 ft. per HD. The second application increases the fire damage to 1d4 fire damage per HD, the third to 1d6 fire damage per HD. After that, each application simply grants a stacking bonus to the fire damage of ½ your HD.
Are you able to put out the fire,What action if yes.

Sorcerous Light
Requirements: Ignite
Effect: You may change the hue of your light to any color you wish, additionally, anyone within the range of your bright light who is staring at you may, at your option, be subject to Hypnotism as a gaze attack. You may use this no more than once per round. You may effect up to 2d4 HD of creatures for each of your HD, and creatures may make a will save to avoid the fascination (DC 10 + ½ HD + Charisma Modifier). A successful save renders a creature immune for 24 hours.

Storage
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: The space inside you becomes extra-dimensional, and is capable of holding objects weighing no more than 25 pounds per HD, which take up a space no larger than 5 cubic feet per HD. These objects do not count towards your maximum carrying capacity, and you are in no way hindered by having them. Furthermore, you may count yourself as a Handy Haversack for the purposes of withdrawing items from yourself: The item you need will always end up shifted to the top.
Special: You may take this ability multiple times, each time increasing the maximum weight by 25 pounds per HD, and the maximum space by 5 cubic feet per HD.
Does this have any air, Or can they breath infinitely?
Knockover
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally occupied by creatures, such as a chair or a bed.
Effect: On a successful Bull Rush attempt, you may knock someone over on or into you. (So they would end up sitting in a chair or lying in a bed.) Furthermore, you may make a pin attempt against anyone on or in your as a swift action. This is a grapple check with a +10 bonus. If you are successful, they are pinned and stuck inside your space, and you may maintain the pin with a successful grapple check as a free action each turn. You may only hold one creature immobilized in this way. If you move, the creature moves with you, as they are effectively trapped on you. You take no penalties for grappling unless the other creature beats your grapple check.

Looking Glass
Requirements: Must be an object which is normally used to enhance vision, such as a magnifying glass or spyglass.
Effect: You gain a bonus to spot checks equal to ½ your HD, as does anyone using you to look at things. Furthermore, you and anyone using you gains the benefits of some special effects. Every time you take this ability, you may choose one of the following effects. You may not choose an effect of a spell level higher than one below ½ your HD. All "Detect" abilities reveal all information instantaneously.
Detect Secret Doors
Detect [Alignment]
Detect Magic
Comprehend Languages (written)
See Invisibility
Detect Thoughts
Arcane Sight
Analyze Dweomer
True Seeing
Greater Arcane Sight
Special: You may gain this ability more than once. Each time, select a new ability that you qualify for, and the bonus on spot checks increases by ½ your HD.

Codex
Requirements: Must be an object capable of containing knowledge, such as a book.
Effect: You gain a bonus on knowledge checks equal to ½ your HD. Furthermore, you may alter the words on your pages at your whim. Finally, to a certain extent, you become a wizard's spellbook. You may select a single wizard spell of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain this spell as a spell-like ability, usable at will. If it allows a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. You may choose this ability multiple times, each time the bonus on knowledge checks increases by half your HD, and you learn one new spell.
Is the person able to change spell?Hoe much time would it take
Religious Artifact
Requirements: Must be an object related to some religion, such as a holy symbol.
Effect: You may select two cleric spells of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these spells as spell-like abilities, usable at will. If it allows a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. If you choose an emanation, it is permanent rather than at will.
Same as above.
Crystalline Resonance
Requirements: Must be an object containing crystals of some sort.
Effect: You may select two psion powers of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these spells as psi-like abilities, usable at will. If they allow a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. Further, you gain 1 Power Point per HD.
If there usable at will,Why would you need Power points?

Ancient Tactics
Requirements: Must be a weapon of some sort, or an object capable of containing knowledge
Effect: You may select two maneuvers of a level no higher than ¼ of your HD, and you gain these maneuvers, which you may use at will. If they allow a save, the DC is 10 + ½ HD. Further, you may select one stance, and you are considered to perpetually be in this stance.

Soul Crafted
Requirements: Must be a memento or sentimental object, such as a photograph.
Effect: You may select two soulmelds which target a chakra that an incarnate of your HD could access, and you gain them as if they were permanently bound to those chakras. Further, you gain an essentia pool equal to your HD.
Same as Power points.
Choke
Requirements: Graspers
Effect: When you make a constrict attack, you may choose to gag the constricted target, banning them from all verbal actions. Furthermore, you may choose to begin choking them, in this case, they begin asphyxiating and remain so until they are able to remove you, or they die.
Wouldn't suffocate be better here?

Spray
Requirements: Must be an object normally used to hold liquid, such as a vial or pot.
Effect: You may spew liquids inside of you out in a massive geyser, washing away those before you. You gain what is effectively a breath weapon. It has a range of 5 ft. per HD, and deals 1d4 damage per 2 HD. It also effects the target with whatever substance you are spraying them with. You must have a substance inside of you, and this breath weapon uses up 1 gallon per 2 HD when you use it. You may choose to use less of the substance, decreasing the number of gallons used by that spray, but counting you as 2 HD lower for every gallon removed, for the purposes of damage and range.

Substance Conjuration
Requirements: Spray.
Effect: You may conjure an infinite amount of a substance, as if you were a Decanter of Endless Water. You must have a bit of the substance placed inside you first, for you to attune to, and the substance can be worth no more than 5 GP per HD. From now on, you may conjure a seemingly infinite supply of that substance. You may change substances by attuning to a new substance, but you may only conjure one type of substance at a time.

Magic Cupboard
Requirements: Must be an object capable of storing things inside of it, such as a backpack, basket, or chest.
Effect: As a free action, you may use any prestidigitation effect on any object inside you. The effects of this prestidigitation are permanent. Furthermore, you may create, at will as a swift action, any nonmagical item worth no more than 10 GP per HD within yourself. You may only have one of these items at a time, if you create another, the previous one falls to dust.

Digger
Requirements: Must be a sharp object such as a shovel or mining pick.
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You also gain a burrow speed equal to ½ your base land speed. You may burrow through solid rock (although you only burrow at half speed when going through solid rock) and any object with a hardness no greater than your HD. You leave a usable tunnel behind you.
Special: You may gain this ability more than once, each time increasing your speeds by ½ of your land speed, and increasing the maximum hardness you can burrow through by your HD.

Musical
Requirements: Must be an object capable of making noise, such as a bell or musical instrument.
Effect: You gain Bardic Music as a bard of your HD. You may choose to give up a number of your daily uses of Bardic Music equal to the level at which a Bardic Music effect is gained, to gain that Bardic Music effect at will.

Energy Lash
Requirements: Must be an object associated with any of the following elements: cold, fire, acid, lightning, sonic. For example, a horn could qualify with sonic, a lightning rod with lightning, or a torch with fire.
Effect: You gain a breath weapon dealing damage of the type you used to qualify for this. It deals 1d6 damage per HD, and when you gain this ability, you may choose to shape it as a line with a range of 15 ft. per HD, a cone with a range of 10 ft. per HD, or a sphere with a range of 5 ft. per HD. Enemies may evade this with a successful reflex save. After using this attack, you must wait 1d4 rounds to use it again. A second application of this ability increases the damage to 1d8 per HD and the range by 5 ft. per HD.

Slicer
Requirements: Must be sharp in some manner, such as a fork or pickaxe.
Effect: When you make a slam attack, you may choose between bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Further, you ignore one point of hardness on objects.
Maybe allow it to bypass a bit of Dr as well or make it scale.

Mirror, Mirror
Requirements: Must have a reflective surface of some sort.
Effect: At will, you may create a scrying effect in your surface. Further, once per day, you may use this scrying to answer a question, as though through divination, such as "who is the fairest in the land". Your scrying effect will automatically target the event, place, or object which is closest to your request.

Seafaring
Requirements: Must either be made of wood, or directly related to water.
Effect: You are able to float across the sea, effectively granting you a swim speed equal to your land speed. If you take this ability again, your swim speed increases by your land speed.

Tradesman's Tools
Requirements: Must be a tool kit or a tool used for some sort of profession.
Effect: You may always take 10 on the skill associated with your tool. Further, you gain a +2 bonus on that skill. You may take this ability multiple times. Each time after the first, you gain a stacking +3 bonus on the skill.

Blinding
Requirements: Ignite.
Effect: Anyone within the range of your bright light must make a will save or be blinded.
every round?

Selection
Requirements: Must be an object normally used to hold clothing, such as a coatrack or a hatstand.
Effect: You may wear clothing of the type you are associated in, furthermore, you may benefit from a number of articles of clothing of that type equal to your charisma modifier.

Jaws
Requirements: Storage.
Effect: You gain a bite attack dealing 1d8 damage. It deals piercing damage, and you add your strength modifier to the damage.

Hungry Basket
Requirements: Storage, Jaws.
Effect: You gain the Swallow Whole ability. You may only hold creatures inside you if they could fit, as per the rules of Storage.

Improved Movement
Requirements: Must have legs or wheels.
Effect: Your base land speed improves to 40 ft. if you have legs, or 60 ft. if you have wheels.

Psychedelic
Requirements: Must have a reflective surface or transparent surface, such as a kaleidoscope.
Effect: You gain the ability to use any illusion spell as a spell-like ability once per day per HD. You may use any illusion spell you wish, as long as it has a level no greater than 1/2 your HD. A spell uses up a number of uses of this ability equal to its level.

Stabbity
Requirements: Must be reasonably sharp.
Effect: You gain the sneak attack ability. This deals an additional 1d6 per 3 HD damage on a successful sneak attack.

Soporific
Requirements: Must be normally related to sleeping, such as a pillow or bed.
Effect: You radiate a permanent sleep spell at a radius of 5 ft. per HD. The maximum HD of creatures effected is your HD plus your Charisma modifier. A creature actually touching you treats the spell as though it has permanent duration, leaving them asleep until something wakes them up.


Ability Increases: The Animated Object gains +1 to Str at levels 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9, for a total of +6 Strength.

Tough Shell: The Animated Object gains hardness, even though it is alive. It has hardness equal to 1/2 its HD. (you may have a hardness greater than your HD by using Object Power, see above.) This stacks with any damage reduction you may have.

Hidden Life: An Animated Object may choose to suppress its life to fool others. You gain a +10 bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a normal object of the type that you are. Furthermore, when keeping yourself disguised in this manner, you do not move involuntarily and no magic will detect that you are actually alive.
Maybe it should scale?

Never Alive: At 6th level, you gain the power to avoid death. Since you were never alive to begin with, you cannot die. You may, once per day, upon your death, strain your will to live, at which point you will begin to repair yourself. You effectively gain fast healing 1 until you are repaired to full health, though you may take no actions while in this state. If a piece of you is separated, it will itself animate and try to work its way back to the main portion of your body. It has no intelligence and can easily be blocked, but it will move around corner and through corridors if it recognizes the most direct route if blocked. It moves at 1/2 your movement speed when you were alive. You do not gain Fast Healing until all your pieces are together.
What happens if the piece is destroyed(disintegrate and such)

Distributed Consciousness: At 8th level, once per day, you may choose to distribute your mind to a number of other object. You may distribute your mind to a number of objects equal to your charisma modifier. Each object may be an Animated Object of a level equal to ½ your HD. (If you have more than 20 HD, all of your objects are level 10 Animated Objects). Your original object body glows with obvious magic, but is left comatose while you puppeteer the other objects. You may animate the legion of objects for a maximum number of rounds equal to your HD plus your Charisma Modifier.

Magic Item: You realize your destiny: You are no ordinary object, you are a magical object, and your deeds will set the course of history. You gain an enhancement bonus to your natural attacks equal to half your HD, and you may spend this enhancement bonus to gain other weapon qualities. If you have 21 or more HD, you may receive epic qualities. You gain 1 Hardness and 5 bonus HP for every point of enhancement bonus, just as a normal object would. (This applies only to actual enhancement bonuses, not to special qualities.) Before level 21, the actual enhancement bonus on your natural attacks may not exceed +5, after that, it may not exceed +10. Further, you may spend your budget for animating yourself on a magical item, instead of a mundane item, if you wish.


Comments
Harder than it looks! The Animated Object monster is surprisingly vague on exactly how different animated objects perform. However, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It gains its choice of abilities based on what type of object it is, and eventually becomes a magic item. Enjoy!

Changelog
None yet.
I Love this class. Very nice, I will be looking forward to playing this class.

Zeofar
2010-12-07, 06:57 PM
I've made a post relevant to the split of the monster class thread. Ignore it wholly or in part if you please, but I think rejoining the threads will ultimately be better for the community. I know that those who have decided to split aren't keen on ever returning, but I think that it would be the most wise course of action. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9917150&postcount=183)

The Antigamer
2010-12-07, 07:06 PM
I've made a post relevant to the split of the monster class thread. Ignore it wholly or in part if you please, but I think rejoining the threads will ultimately be better for the community. I know that those who have decided to split aren't keen on ever returning, but I think that it would be the most wise course of action. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9917150&postcount=183)

I wholeheartedly agree that a single thread would be better for the community. I'm not 100% on your proposed rule changes, but that's the point of discussion to reach a decision that's best for everyone.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 07:11 PM
This whole thread split thing *is* making my pipe dream of consolidating these into a Homebrew Monster Class Monster Manual a bit trickier to figure out.

On the bright side, I'm probably too lazy to do that anyway. :smallfrown:

Tacitus
2010-12-07, 07:12 PM
If anything, the leadership of the thread should be done with a joint Improved Monster Class Mule Account (if threadmules are allowed?) with several people having private access to it, each of whom are more or less elected to the position of a council of editors and managers so that we've got several people with editing rights to the whole shebang. (Or hell, make it a public threadmule if you think giving out the pass publicly is acceptable)

A lot of the older stuff should also probably be reposted so it is able to be edited, especially for some of O's grammar malfunctions. >.>

Betropper
2010-12-07, 07:28 PM
Basicly I just want to say this about the split, my words in the other thread:


Conter-productive? Don't think so. Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done. What I think should happen is this:

Keep the two groups seperate, but have one database. If one group wants to work their way, fine, as long as the actual classes are made. You make classes in both threads and you work faster than normal due to two methods of grading. I personally see this more as a blessing than a curse.

That is all.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 07:34 PM
I'm on the fence - My heart is saying get back into one group, but my head is saying don't bother. And my head has proof. We've gotten good classes like the Phrenic and Wendigo templates, and people arn't annoyed/are having a good time.

Or, to summarize, as long as it's done to a good quality and fairly.....

Who cares? Really?

But alas, I must sleep now, so I shall see what comes out of this discussion at a later time. Goodnight.

The Antigamer
2010-12-07, 07:35 PM
Basicly I just want to say this about the split, my words in the other thread:



That is all.

As I said in that thread two groups with one database is a logistical nightmare. Splitting threads means both threads lose the good suggestions of at least a few people. Why not just have one thread, one database, and use a new form of judging monster fitness? I fail to see why a joint resolution cannot be reached.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 07:36 PM
That's the point, is that it gets the ability to use its morphing ability essentially as an immediate-free action, and allows it to change at any time it likes. Normally, you work out damage and DR at the same time, yes, but the idea is that whatever order you do things in in real time, you can interrupt that at any time to morph. So if the combat list goes:

1) Does the creature have DR?
MORPH!
2) Does the attack overcome the DR?
MORPH!
3) How much damage does the attack deal?

Hmm, but wouldn't that be kinda of a rules nightmare and bog down the game as your character is reacthing to everything? Well ok trying to play at level 29 would be pretty rule-heavy already, but still, I think it shouldn't be able to transform more than once per round for simplicity's sake. Maybe allow multiple changes with each



Maybe I'll just make it so you only get the one power when you take the ability.

I like that solution!:smallsmile:

monkman: Ok, changed the deflection bonus to +1 (or improving an already existing bonus by +1), and put the untyped comment.

Betropper:I agree with you. This thread seems to be working pretty well by itself. Who really cares how many threads there are or who's running them as long as more cool monster classes are being done?:smallbiggrin:

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 07:37 PM
Ankheg (Awakened)

http://panzerleader.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ankheg.jpg


Hit Dice: d12
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features
1|+0|+2|+0|+0|Ankheg Body, Tremorsense, Tunneling, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
2|+1|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Ant Lion Attack, Improved Grab, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
3|+2|+3|+1|+1|Acid Spit, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]

Skills: 2+Int (x4 at first level); The ankheg's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: An ankheg is proficient with its own natural weapons.

Ankheg Body: A first-level ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 5'/HD. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60'. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier. It is incapable of fine manipulation and cannot use weapons or shields.

At 8HD, an ankheg's burrowing improves; it can now burrow through solid stone.

Tremorsense: A first-level ankheg gains tremorsense 10'/HD.

Tunneling: A first-level ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. The tunnel is as wide and tall as the ankheg, and usable by creatures of its size or smaller.

Lunge: A 2nd-level ankheg that attacks in a round that they burrow at least 5' may be treated as charging, including the +2 to attack and -2 to AC. If it attacks a creature above ground immediately after emerging from the ground, the creature attacked is flat-footed for that attack.

Ant Lion Attack: If it has already burrowed in the round, a 2nd-level ankheg that attacks and successfully grapples a creature may burrow another 5'/3 HD (minimum 5') as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, taking the grappled creature with it.

Improved Grab: A 2nd-level ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Acid Spit: A 3rd-level ankheg gains an acid spit attack, 5'/HD line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves.

In addition, as long as the ankheg has reserves of acid, its bite attack deals an additional 1d4 acid damage.

Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature.

An ankheg continues to grow throughout its life.

At 12HD, it grows to Huge size.
At 20HD, it grows to Gargantuan size.



Comments:
Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 07:42 PM
Well, it dosen't matter anymore. The other thread officially died out apparently due to the title change.

Now, a new question, what happens with all the monster classes there? Do we still need permission to put them here if no-one is there to use them?

The Antigamer
2010-12-07, 07:44 PM
Well, it dosen't matter anymore. The other thread officially died out apparently due to the title change.

Now, a new question, what happens with all the monster classes there? Do we still need permission to put them here if no-one is there to use them?

It hasn't died out, Gorgon changed the title and put the thread on hold while trying to reach a compromise and figure out what was wrong. Apparently his/her PM's have not been answered, however?

Betropper
2010-12-07, 07:46 PM
It hasn't died out, Gorgon changed the title and put the thread on hold while trying to reach a compromise and figure out what was wrong. Apparently his/her PM's have not been answered, however?

Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 07:48 PM
Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

I know I am. I'll hold off. :smallamused:

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 07:49 PM
Ankheg:Looks quite spiffy, but isn't the 3rd level a little too much? Growth, two score increases, full Bab and spit acid at the same time? I would sugest cuting the score increases on the last level since he gains so much powerfull stuff there.

And I don't get lunge very well. Did you burrow 5 feet, and next turn if you attack you count as charging? Because the way it is written now isn't very clear.

No skills?

Otherwise great work! Love the "double damage when near death":smallsmile:

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 07:51 PM
Calling official dibs on the Umber Hulk (It bugs me that it's not on the list..and..OCD....winning...mental..war..). Also, i'll be reposting the Black Dragon and Awakened T-Rex tomorrow, for you all to poke them with sticks.

The Antigamer
2010-12-07, 07:51 PM
Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

Gorgon said he/she was considering it, I hardly see that as an fficial announcement :smallconfused:

And weren't you just pointing out "Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done." I'm confused as to how you can claim that as a reason for a split, then say you're moving too fast.

monkman
2010-12-07, 07:58 PM
... I'd rather make monsters than talk politics, so I'm going to throw up an Ankheg class to go back to monsters.

Ankheg (Awakened)

http://panzerleader.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ankheg.jpg


Hit Dice: d12
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Insectoid Body, Tunneling, +1 Strength
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Improved Grab, +1 Constitution
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Spit Acid, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]
I dont think that it should get Full bab, It is a beast/insect/vermin
Insectoid Body: An ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 20'. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60' and tremorsense of 10' per HD. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to 1.5*Constitution modifier. It cannot use weapons or shields.
Tremorsence should be in another ability, The natural armor should be at con modifier, Not 1.5
Tunneling: An ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. This tunnel is 5' tall and wide.
i think you mean the diameter is of 5 ft.Also this isn't very useful
Lunge: An ankheg that burrows at least 5' in a round before attacking is treated as charging.

Improved Grab: An ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Spit Acid: 30' line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves.

Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature.


Comments:
Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.
This class isn't interesting, It's quite vanilla,There's not really much to do with this class. It get's mediocre abilities but the spit acid is nice but it isnt really unique.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 07:58 PM
Ankheg:Looks quite spiffy, but isn't the 3rd level a little too much? Growth, two score increases, full Bab and spit acid at the same time? I would sugest cuting the score increases on the last level since he gains so much powerfull stuff there.

And I don't get lunge very well. Did you burrow 5 feet, and next turn if you attack you count as charging? Because the way it is written now isn't very clear.

No skills?

Otherwise great work! Love the "double damage when near death":smallsmile:

Whoops. Put in skills and proficiencies. :smallredface:

Sought to clarify Lunge. How does it work now?

I cut the score increases, but aesthetically I want to keep a +1 Strength in there. It just looks lopsided otherwise. :smallconfused:

Edit: Put Tremorsense in a different ability, will address the rest in a moment.

Edit 2: Normal Ankheg has like ... +9 natural armor. :smalltongue: I thought it might enhance its role as a shelled thing to pick the more powerful option of natural armors; though I was torn between doing 1+Con modifier or 2+Con modifier as well. Other creatures that get natural armor bonus equal to their Con bonus tend to be able to use shields, so it seemed reasonable to give them a touch more.

Edit 3: I stole the phrasing from the normal Ankheg. Evidently they make square tunnels.

Edit 4: ... I should reduce the BAB of a melee-oriented magical beast? :smallconfused: Okay yeah, I should.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 08:07 PM
Sought to clarify Lunge. How does it work now?

Good!



I cut the score increases, but aesthetically I want to keep a +1 Strength in there. It just looks lopsided otherwise. :smallconfused:

Well I believe score increases are used to help fill levels power-wise. But if you already have powerfull abilities then it isn't needed.



Edit: Put Tremorsense in a different ability, will address the rest in a moment.

One sugestion: dig-by attack! Allow the Ankheg to strike from under earth, strike an oponent and drag them below earth in one swoop! (or retreating in case it failed to grab the oponent)

Isn't something like that it's suposed to do? Spring from the earth, grab a dude by suprise, and then take his prey underground?

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 08:08 PM
That's a very cool suggestion.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 08:16 PM
Gorgon said he/she was considering it, I hardly see that as an fficial announcement :smallconfused:

And weren't you just pointing out "Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done." I'm confused as to how you can claim that as a reason for a split, then say you're moving too fast.

1. I said might be making a new thread.

2. 2 classes in a matter of 2 days is pretty fast for me.

3. it wasn't a reason for a split, it was proof that we are doing OK, just a bit too fast.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 08:27 PM
Changed BAB to 3/4, each level ability bonus to Strength, added Dig-by Attack (called Ant Lion Attack for now), added a new functionality to Lunge, made burrow speed scaling (not sure on this - don't think I scaled it quite right), and stubbornly maintained the natural armor bonus until I get a better option for 'particularly hard-shelled'.

Edit: Added a Constitution bonus to the levels, reduced the Natural Armor to Con modifier, made Ant Lion Attack a touch more specific, and ... probably did something else too. Oh right. Finished Lunge.

Betropper
2010-12-07, 08:44 PM
Call dibs on the Gibbering Mouther for now.

NecroticPunch
2010-12-07, 08:57 PM
I would like to formally request the creation of an Ak'chazar Rakshasa monster class.

That is all.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 09:06 PM
I would like to formally request the creation of an Ak'chazar Rakshasa monster class.


Necromantic Rakasha? I call dibs on that!:smallbiggrin:

monkman
2010-12-07, 09:17 PM
I think that these threads should be abandoned for some time, We have to figure out what to do, I'm not sure but i think that we should create a thread(friendly banter) and solve this problem there.I think that it should be one of the non participants(not Gorgon and Magicyop) that makes the thread.I the rest of the members(I think) would all agree that there should be no more sharable and that the opposing people should speak to each other and figure out what to do.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 09:19 PM
I'm going to ask you all to read what I have to say fully. Don't skim. This is a complicated issue and it can't be solved in a simplistic way.

My Thoughts On The Thread Split Uproar: Gorgon is over-exaggerating to an extreme about ignoring him/her. We've PMed back and forth, and each time I say I'm willing to talk about a compromise, he/she shoots back some insulting and clear-cut drivel which makes it pretty clear that when things aren't done just as he/she wants, he/she is going to flip. As he/she has. Though he/she's been gentleman/womanly on the thread, I assure, the PMs I've received from him/her are very rude. Further, he/she keeps treating the whole thing with disgust and rage, and then insisting we talk about it like "civilized people."

For now, I do not believe a compromise can be reached until everyone calms down. This thread is going pretty well so far-- we have some new monsters, some new creators, and aside from the business with the other thread, everyone is happy.

Let me be clear: I can understand the point of view of those who cry that this was sudden and without warning. Perhaps things might have been better had we announced our plans before actually going through with them, but hindsight is 20/20. But like Niezck said, this was no split-second decision. We've been debating on how to do this, and whether we should do this, for some time. We decided that for monster classes to move forward in a friendly and equal environment, it was necessary for us to take action.

For now, unless everyone else working with this thread disagrees with me, I think that we should bide our time. Continue working as we have just started doing, and wait for everyone to calm down about the matter. Once everyone is ready to talk about this in an orderly and equal manner, perhaps we can consider a compromise. But my PMs with Gorgon have led me to believe that right now, such a thing is not possible, without all of us who started this thread simply kowtowing to his will.

I understand that many of you feel it was disrespectful, or unfair, to do this. But in the long run, I feel that whatever comes out of it, it will be best that we did it. Whether we maintain work on this thread, or whether we are eventually able to reach a compromise and consolidate the two threads into one, change has and will come, and that was our aim.

If anyone has any strong feelings on the matter who disagree with the current course of action, I would like you to PM them to me or one of the others who helped to create the thread, but I would ask that you voice them respectfully and politely. I've had quite enough of Gorgon cynically defacing our point of view. While I'm willing to discuss the matter, I personally will ignore any messages which I get that are phrased in a disrespectful or angry way.

After all, as ChumpLump pointed out, this is all just about a game, right? By extension? Come on. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing to get upset about.

Respectfully,
Magicyop



Now that that's out of the way, seems like some great progress has been made this afternoon while I've been away. I agree that it may seem we're taking things a little bit fast, but a couple of these monsters were around in the old thread, and have already been critiqued and edited several times. Doesn't it make sense that it would be quick to get a mostly-finished monster completely finished?

I'll comment on specific classes and stuff shortly.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-07, 09:24 PM
Well, I'll break my own rule about not posting in this thread to say this:
Simply saying that I was so rude in our PMs is cheap. If you do not object, I'll post our conversation right here so people can see for themselves.
EDIT: Of course, I did make a political reference, so that'll have to be censored. Posting rules & all.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 09:29 PM
Well, I'll break my own rule about not posting in this thread to say this:
Simply saying that I was so rude in our PMs is cheap. If you do not object, I'll post our conversation right here so people can see for themselves.

If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

You called this project "a farce", you explained in no uncertain terms what I had to do to "prove I was sorry to you", (being apologetic and being regretful are two separate things) and you compared the thread split to the civil war. In my opinion, at all times, you've been nothing but childish. You show me one single PM I got from you that was polite and reasonable, and I'll apologize for bringing it up.

Let me be clear-- I want nothing more than for this little squabble to go away. We had the perfectly reasonable right to start our own thread, and verified with several people that we could. Right now, Gorgon, it seems like you just want the fight to rage louder and angrier. Can't we all calm down a little? Do you think a compromise can be reached with everyone upset?

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 09:34 PM
If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.:smallfrown:

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 09:35 PM
PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.:smallfrown:

Oh, no, I agree with that, I didn't think he intended to post it here. If he did, then yes, I'd prefer if he posted it somewhere else.

EDIT: Ah, yes, it seems like he did. He did say 'post it right here'. Anyway, like I said, I'd like to leave this behind us, so that we can talk reasonably about a real compromise. Just cool your heels on the argument for a while and try to return to business as usual, and if after some time, it still seems a conglomeration must be reached, we can talk respectfully about it.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 09:39 PM
... Conglomeration?

I love all you tentacled freaks, by the way. Thanks for at least trying to run this for us.

Ankheg is changing at a really quick speed.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 09:50 PM
...I guess... I just don't see how that works in fluff terms.

Well, picture this. You're fighting a beastie with some kind of natural armor which can't be pounded through. Your arm flies out, transforming into a spearlike horn. You pierce the skin of the beastie, then the tip of the horn morphs into a stony fist just in time to smash the innards of the beastie to jam.


I Love this class. Very nice, I will be looking forward to playing this class.

Ooh, excellent. I don't see a problem with any of your suggestions, thank you for giving them. Will implement momentarily.


Hmm, but wouldn't that be kinda of a rules nightmare and bog down the game as your character is reacthing to everything? Well ok trying to play at level 29 would be pretty rule-heavy already, but still, I think it shouldn't be able to transform more than once per round for simplicity's sake. Maybe allow multiple changes with each


Maybe not infinite number... but more than one. A couple. Maybe an amount equal to one of your modifiers.


Betropper:I agree with you. This thread seems to be working pretty well by itself. Who really cares how many threads there are or who's running them as long as more cool monster classes are being done?:smallbiggrin:

Yup!


Will edit Animated Object and comment on Ankheg momentarily.

DarkEnar
2010-12-07, 09:52 PM
... Conglomeration?
I love all you tentacled freaks, by the way. Thanks for at least trying to run this for us.

Well, I believe this thread will still keep going. PM negotiations seem to have failed, and Gorgon closed the other thread, preventing people from working there. So the homebrewing must go on!


... Conglomeration?
Ankheg is changing at a really quick speed.

And I like where it's going.

But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 09:53 PM
And I like where it's going.

But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?

This is a brilliant idea. I love it. Eventually be able to dig right through magic, pierce a prismatic sphere without harm, bust through a wall of force... the ultimate burrower. Really fun.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 09:58 PM
Well, I believe this thread will still keep going. PM negotiations have failed, and Gorgon closed the other thread, preventing people from working there. So the homebrewing must go on!



And I like where it's going.

But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?

I like burrowing progression, and was thinking about implementing some sort. It's what kind of sort that gave me pause. Solid stone and walls, aye... :smalltongue:

And maybe they should be able to get to Huge ... Is there precedent for growth progression outside the monster class? Player can't really opt out, and being bigger than large isn't always practical. (See: Dungeonbred creature)

Gorgondantess
2010-12-07, 09:58 PM
If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

You called this project "a farce", you explained in no uncertain terms what I had to do to "prove I was sorry to you", (being apologetic and being regretful are two separate things) and you compared the thread split to the civil war. In my opinion, at all times, you've been nothing but childish. You show me one single PM I got from you that was polite and reasonable, and I'll apologize for bringing it up.

Let me be clear-- I want nothing more than for this little squabble to go away. We had the perfectly reasonable right to start our own thread, and verified with several people that we could. Right now, Gorgon, it seems like you just want the fight to rage louder and angrier. Can't we all calm down a little? Do you think a compromise can be reached with everyone upset?

I tried to reach a compromise. I was livid, so I was bombastic in my discourse and I exaggerated a lot, and yes, I came off as very angry. Guess what? I was very angry. And the civil war reference was a joke, anyways, in case you didn't get it.
Now, I don't think I'm being impolite. I don't think you are, either. But it seems you're holding me to a different standard than yourself: there is nothing polite about insinuating that I am "childish", "petty", and solely fueling this because I "want the fight to rage louder and angrier". Also, you've taken my arguments out of context. I'm not claiming to hold the calm and rational high ground here, but in that case, you shouldn't either.
Pretending I don't exist and ignoring my PMs isn't going to make me go away. You're saying you want to work something out. I've been saying for the longest time that I want to work something out. So let's work something out.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 10:02 PM
This is a brilliant idea. I love it. Eventually be able to dig right through magic, pierce a prismatic sphere without harm, bust through a wall of force... the ultimate burrower. Really fun.

I don't know that Ankheg should get it, is the thing. They're excellent ant lions with skills relating to attacking people on the surface; but you might find a better monster to hold the title of 'ultimate burrower'.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 10:04 PM
I tried to reach a compromise. I was livid, so I was bombastic in my discourse and I exaggerated a lot, and yes, I came off as very angry. Guess what? I was very angry. And the civil war reference was a joke, anyways, in case you didn't get it.
Now, I don't think I'm being impolite. I don't think you are, either. But it seems you're holding me to a different standard than yourself: there is nothing polite about insinuating that I am "childish", "petty", and solely fueling this because I "want the fight to rage louder and angrier". Also, you've taken my arguments out of context. I'm not claiming to hold the calm and rational high ground here, but in that case, you shouldn't either.
Pretending I don't exist and ignoring my PMs isn't going to make me go away. You're saying you want to work something out. I've been saying for the longest time that I want to work something out. So let's work something out.

Sure, I may have been rude to you. We're all stressed out. And it is for this reason I've proposed we let it lie until all of us, all of us, are calm and ready to reach a rational discussion. Our creation of this thread should not impair your ability to continue your thread. Neither should you wish to force us to cease right now. If you fervently believe that we have to reach a solution which ends with only one project, surely you'd be willing to wait until tempers are low, and we can do it reasonably?

Zeofar
2010-12-07, 10:11 PM
Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorgondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 10:17 PM
... I'd rather make monsters than talk politics, so I'm going to throw up an Ankheg class to go back to monsters.

Ankheg (Awakened)

http://panzerleader.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ankheg.jpg


Hit Dice: d12
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features
1|+0|+2|+0|+0|Insectoid Body, Tremorsense, Tunneling, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
2|+1|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Ant Lion Attack, Improved Grab, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
3|+2|+3|+1|+1|Spit Acid, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]

Skills: 2+Int (x4 at first level); Climb, Intimidate, Listen, Search, Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: An ankheg is proficient with its own natural weapons.

Insectoid Body: An ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 10'/3 HD. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60'. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier. It cannot use weapons or shields. Seems reasonable to me.

Tremorsense: An ankheg gains tremorsense 10'/HD. Cool, useful.

Tunneling: An ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. This tunnel is 5' tall and wide. Cool! I like it. Like we discussed before, I think you should add options for burrowing through stone and similar materials, even if you don't want to go with 'ultimate burrower'.

Lunge: An ankheg that attacks in a round that they burrow at least 5' may be treated as charging, including the +2 to attack and -2 to AC. If it attacks a creature above ground immediately after emerging from the ground, the creature attacked is flat-footed for that attack. Fun! I can just imagine bursting from the surface of the ground to ambush a foe.

Ant Lion Attack: If it has already burrowed in the round, an ankheg that attacks and successfully grapples a creature may burrow another 5'/3 HD as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Enhances its biggest trick in an interesting way? That's good! One thing you might want to add is, does the creature come with the Ankheg? Are you essentially pulling them into the earth?

Improved Grab: An ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. Makes its charge ability synthesize with its grapple ability? That's good. Good ability.

Spit Acid: 30' line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves. Can the range scale with HD?

Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature. I like being able to become a huge Ankheg at some point. See the giants for a good way to grow by HD.


Comments:
Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.

Looks good overall (see my comments in the quote), but doesn't the original Ankheg have some way to secrete acid from its skin? That would be a cool ability to see on this.



Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorgondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.

This may well work-- it's a good, and a democratic suggestion. But I still maintain that we all chill and take some time before we discuss it. Let's just avoid the topic of the split for a while and let everything settle. Then we can try to discuss some compromise, if one is necessary.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-07, 10:54 PM
Couple of things I noticed.

Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.

It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.

monkman
2010-12-07, 10:56 PM
Tomorrow,I'll comment on the Thorn and The grell but for now i would like to nominate the bleakborn and Solamith,There both well built classes and there's nothing (i can see) that wrong with them.

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 10:59 PM
Couple of things I noticed.

Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.

No, that's definitely for certain. No one can vouch for classes created before this thread was made. Anyone who wants to is welcome to take any such class and revise it to fix balance, spelling, flavor, or anything, really. If the creator is still on the forums, it may be best to check with them, first, though. But you're absolutely right.


It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.

What it's saying is that if you give a monster class full casting, its other class features should be weaker than the class features of a monster without full casting.


Tomorrow,I'll comment on the Thorn and The grell but for now i would like to nominate the bleakborn and Solamith,There both well built classes and there's nothing (i can see) that wrong with them.

Sounds like a good idea. Nomination added.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 11:00 PM
Instituted most changes. How should the range scale with HD, would you suggest?

Magicyop
2010-12-07, 11:02 PM
Instituted most changes. How should the range scale with HD, would you suggest?

5 ft. per HD? Or if you think that's too much, 5 ft. per 2 HD?

Mystic Muse
2010-12-07, 11:05 PM
One other thing. I want to finish Illurien first, but after that I'm redoing the silver dragon. I looked at it today and the class just feels bland to me. I'm playing one and I don't look forward to any of the following abilities.

Silver flier
Purify
patience
Silver feat
quick learner
cleanse.

That's the majority of the unique abilities the Silver dragon gets. Quick learner mimics an ability most DMs would ban, purify and cleanse are only useful in a specific type of build, silver flier seems situational at best, and silver feat is a bonus feat. Patience could be useful, but it just doesn't look all that appealing.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-07, 11:07 PM
Couple of things I noticed.

Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.
Any of the classes that get an immunity at 1st level get a weakness to go hand in hand with it- it's not an "immunity", as in an ability that grants an immunity, but the subtype. That's A-OK.


It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.
That... certainly needs rewording. They should gain abilities other than their fullcasting significantly less than other monster classes.
Actually, I'm considering just doing away with fullcasting entirely and making sure that, at the very least, a caster will be stunted in their casting- for example, fullcasting as a cleric would be okay so long as you didn't get any domains, or fullcasting as a sorcerer would be okay so long as you could only choose spells from these three schools, or fullcasting as a wizard would be okay if you have a severely limited spell selection, etc.


Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.

No. I don't like the new nomination format.
Why? Because if we were using that, we'd have the living spell on the list with none of the vague spells defined. There needs to be a better system than what's up there in terms of quality control.
But... I'll let it lie. For now. Part of the reason I've been mad is that you, Magicyop, didn't even tell me that you were going to let me, ah, "chill out"- you just started ignoring me. However, now that I know this, I can sit by a few days so long as I'm kept aware on what's going on. So, I'll tell you what: I make myself scarce and finish up the Pseudonatural Creature, make it nice and epic and lovely. I might pop in for the occasional critique, but that's it. Once I need somewhere to post the PC, we figure something out. Sound good?


One other thing. I want to finish Illurien first, but after that I'm redoing the silver dragon. I looked at it today and the class just feels bland to me. I'm playing one and I don't look forward to any of the following abilities.

Silver flier
Purify
patience
Silver feat
quick learner
cleanse.

That's the majority of the unique abilities the Silver dragon gets. Quick learner mimics an ability most DMs would ban, purify and cleanse are only useful in a specific type of build, silver flier seems situational at best, and silver feat is a bonus feat. Patience could be useful, but it just doesn't look all that appealing.
Good. I wholeheartedly agree: the dragons need a major overhaul.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-07, 11:10 PM
Any of the classes that get an immunity at 1st level get a weakness to go hand in hand with it- it's not an "immunity", as in an ability that grants an immunity, but the subtype. That's A-OK.



Okay, just wanted to clear things up.

Kajhera
2010-12-07, 11:18 PM
5 ft. per HD? Or if you think that's too much, 5 ft. per 2 HD?

5' per HD sounds reasonable.

Zemro
2010-12-08, 12:46 AM
I'ma chargin ma critique!

Phrenic Creature: I realise that since he's in England Niezck's probably been sleeping since I last commented, but I have some more points to append to my last bit of commentary. Said commentary is found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915201&postcount=43) for ease of reference.

My main reason for additional commentary is that I went and crunched some numbers, using the first character concept to pop into my head:
Sample Build: Jim the Phrenadin (Human Paragon 1 / Paladin 4 / Paragon 2 / Phrenic 1)

Jim can make the skill requirements, or maybe he just fell into one of those Mind-Flayer hive brains and survived. Though the build details, while fun and amusing for myself are largely irrelevant. He'll gain 8 PSAs of 1st or 2nd level when he takes the template. So, I'll pick a random 8 here, and remember that PSA are considered to be fully augmented in terms of their effects.

{table=head]Power Name|Level|Uses/Day|Effective PP per use|Total Daily Effective PP
Biofeedback|PsyWar 1|8|7|56
Emp Trans|PsyWar 2|4|8|32
Precog, Offense|PsyWar 2|8|7|56
Hustle|PsyWar 2|4|3|12
Body Adjust|Psy War 2|4|7|28
Energy Missile|Kinetic 2|4|8|32
Vigor|PsyWar 1|8|8|64
Mind Thrust|Psion 1|8|8|64[/table]
Since there's no noted restriction aside from levels, I picked a couple to demonstrate. In the end Jim has 344 effective power-points per day. His BAB and HP are close to a Psychic Warrior, along with his power selection, but the Psychic Warrior has 19pp +Bonus from Wis per day, while maintaining an equal number of options. The Psion has access to just over twice, 17, the amount of powers but still only has 58pp +Int. The Psion does catch up in power points by 20th but's that's assuming the Phrenic doesn't get more SLAs with more HD.

If the Phrenic gets more powers with HD, it's like getting an entire classes abilities at the cost of one level. I don't think the class should cut down on uses per day, though, those are probably just about right. I think, instead, it should be limited in some way by how many PSA it has. My initial thought is a number equal to it's base Charisma Modifier (aka, without equipment/magic bonuses etc...).

On the upside I really enjoyed the character concept I did for testing, though really the first 7 levels could be anything without changing the outcome. I was just banking on the Cha synergy for kicks.

Wendigo: Lot's of people seemed to like this one, I'll take a look...

Between Maddening Whispers and Stalking Paranoia I really like the flavour of the monster. My other initial impressive is that it's very dense, there are a lot of abilities packed in there for just two levels of investment and provide (I think) a lot more of a benefit then other classes I can think of, especially considering that it scales.

Maddening whispers can technically effect mindless creatures, but honestly don't see how that could work. Also, would already insane creatures (such as the allip) be immune? I'm not so sure about regeneration either, but fire is a fairly common element, but I don't know...

Not really any problem with the rest of the abilities themselves, I just think the class gets too much. The small little bonuses like +1 deflection AC and +1 dex I don't think are necessary when put alongside everything else it gets. Unless there's a rule against, maybe spread things out just slightly by adding a third level?

Also, so you become a Wendigo when you hit 0. So, now that you're a Wendigo, do you get that wisdom back?

Swarmshifter: Aand I've got nothing, so I'll endorse the monster and leave the rest to the more experienced.

Animated Object: Nothing about the object abilities jumps out at me for being broken, so since I've no problems with it I'll do the same as above and endorse the monster and leave catching anything I'm unaware of to the more experienced.

Death Knight: While I think the text could use a bit of cleaning up, the mechanics seem fine to me. Endorsed

And, I think five is enough for me for tonight. Since there have been no more suggestions for the Thorn, I'll leave it awaiting endorsement or critique for now.

Instead I will claim the Marrash (MM2) and shall produce that when I think it's ready.

Makiru
2010-12-08, 01:16 AM
I thank you kindly for the endorsement on the solamith, monkman. Also, having read the wendigo and seeing nothing outstandingly wrong with it, I'll go ahead and give it an endorsement of my own.

AugustNights
2010-12-08, 08:42 AM
PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.:smallfrown:

Right, I know it may seem exclusive, but can we please keep the politics to PM and the homebrewing to the thread? I'd hate to see the projects both be closed for this sort of discussion. Also, anyone who has problems with the new thread, include me in your PM list, I helped create this just as much as Magicyop did.

Edit: Actually, I invite anyone to PM me with questions, concerns, or agitations with this perceived split. I will gladly, and calmly, offer my reasons for being a part of it, and answer any inquires presented about it. Thank you for your time.

Half-golems should be up end of the...next...week.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 08:55 AM
Right, I know it may seem exclusive, but can we please keep the politics to PM and the homebrewing to the thread? I'd hate to see the projects both be closed for this sort of discussion. Also, anyone who has problems with the new thread, include me in your PM list, I helped create this just as much as Magicyop did.

Half-golems should be up end of the...next...week.

Plus, Chump is really awesome and wise. Which is a reason all by itself to include him in the PM list. :smalltongue:

Looking forward to your jam-packed Half-Golem Revision, Chump!

Looks like the Wendigo is nearing completion. It has five out of four amateur nominations, now it just needs two expert. Pretty soon, we'll have our very first monster class finished!

I've looked over the Death Knight Revision and I'm tempted to nominate it too, but there have been some complaints that we're nominating things too quickly, so I'll hold off and give it one more look, just to be sure.

I'll add that nominating things quickly shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Expert Nominations are there as a balance, and as you note, only two monsters, both monsters which were started in the old thread and edited for a while there, have an Expert Nomination.

I'm surprised at the general high quality of the new monsters posted so far in this thread. They're all pretty flavorful and pretty balanced. Which is a good thing! It's a pleasant surprise! Keep up the good work, everyone!

Hagunemnon is nearing completion. It's essentially a one trick pony, and almost all of its class features improve that one trick. And that one trick allows it to mimic a billion tricks. It's actually... really hard to balance. Basically just because you never know what the player might transform into, you could end up with a polymorph combo which is game breaking.

Basically, here are its rules for transforming. It may not transform into a creature with a higher HD than itself. Though this scales as it levels up, by level 29, essentially at any time, it can assume two different abilities from five different creatures simultaneously, such as a tentacle and an extraordinary ability, or flight and the dragon type's benefits.

Up until level 25, however, it must take an action of some sort to stabilize in its current form, or else it will melt back into miasma.

Does that sound too powerful? How do you think I could balance it? It's essentially a Master Transmogrifist (Complete Arcane) on steroids.

Niezck
2010-12-08, 11:51 AM
Holy ... thread explosion!

I'll get to revisions on the Phrenic template in a moment. I'd just first like to sort a few things out.

First, can we please not have the arguments and questions/comments relating to the split here? I'd really rather not see it get locked because of flame wars starting or some such.

Second, this thread was as much the brainchild of myself, ChumpLump and TheGeckoKing as it was Magicyop, so any complaints or queries can be directed as us four as a whole, rather than piling all of the pressure on Magic. As he said, he's only the poster because of his superior organization skills and his level head. (That is, we trust him not to go power-mad with editing privileges.)

I'd also like to thank you all for the support shown and the rapid transition back into monster-making :smallsmile:

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 12:50 PM
Holy ... thread explosion!

I'll get to revisions on the Phrenic template in a moment. I'd just first like to sort a few things out.

First, can we please not have the arguments and questions/comments relating to the split here? I'd really rather not see it get locked because of flame wars starting or some such.

Second, this thread was as much the brainchild of myself, ChumpLump and TheGeckoKing as it was Magicyop, so any complaints or queries can be directed as us four as a whole, rather than piling all of the pressure on Magic. As he said, he's only the poster because of his superior organization skills and his level head. (That is, we trust him not to go power-mad with editing privileges.)

I'd also like to thank you all for the support shown and the rapid transition back into monster-making :smallsmile:

Heck yes. I totally agree with everything Niezck said. We all worked together on this, as it should be for a democratic project like this.

And the support is fantastic. We've already quickly blossomed into a working thread, with some high quality new monsters in the works right now. Everyone keep up the good work.

Betropper
2010-12-08, 02:36 PM
Going to post up the Gibbering Mouther sometime today or tomorrow, depends on how fast I can finish my schoolwork.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 05:18 PM
Going to post up the Gibbering Mouther sometime today or tomorrow, depends on how fast I can finish my schoolwork.

Sounds great. Can't wait to see it.

Before I unleash the first epic monster of the new thread, I'm going to do a smaller class: The Yellow Musk Creeper. I've had it near-finished for a little while, and now seems as good a time as any to post it. I think it's fun, I'm pretty proud of it. I'll post it later today and we'll see what you all think.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-08, 05:23 PM
Umber Hulk

http://howardlyon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Umber-Hulk.jpg


Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Umber Body, Object=Pain, +1 Str

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Confusing Gaze, Powerful Build

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Born Digger, Tremorsense, +1 Str

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Growth, Wreck the Earth

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|HULK SMASH!, Object=PAIN!, +1 Str

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+2|Grab and Smash, WAAAARRRRGGGG!!!!!

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+2|Tools of the Trade, +1 Str[/table]

Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Umber Hulk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Umber Hulk gains proficiency with it's natural attacks, and all simple weaponry, and any weapon you make with the Tools of the Trade.

Stat Increases: The Umber Hulk gains +1 Str at every odd level. At 7th level and every 3 HD afterwards, they gain an additional +1 STR.

Umber Body: The Umber Hulk loses all previous racial traits and gains the Aberration Type. It gains a Land Speed and Burrow Speed of 20ft, and it also gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing 1d6 + STR Mod OR a Slam attack dealing 1d8+1.5 Str Mod damage (Pick at 1st level, cannot be changed afterwards, unless you take the Mult-Beatdown Feat), and a secondary bite attack dealing 1d8 Str Mod. It is capable of fine manipulation, but it must buy specially made armor (125% normal price) to suit its bulky body. Also, you may count yourself as a Monstrous Humanoid for the sake of meeting the prerequisites of Prestige Classes.

Object=Pain: The Umber Hulk takes no penalty whatsoever for using Improvised Weapons, and may use a willing person/unconcious person/dead corpse as an Improvised Weapon dealing damage equal to a Quarterstaff of the appropriate size, and with a damage bonus equal to the person's/body's HD/4. You may not wield a body that is too big for your size, and any damage you deal with a body is dealt to the body itself.

Confusing Gaze: At 2nd level the Umber Hulk gains a Gaze Attack that is as Lesser Confusion, with a DC of (10+1/2HD+WIS Mod). At 7th level, this is upgraded to Confusion. You may supress this Gaze Attack as a free action.

Powerful Build: You gain the Powerful Build ability. You lose this ability at 4th level, and is regained at 14HD.
Whenever you are subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), you are treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to you. You are also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect you. You can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, your space and reach remain those of a creature of your actual size. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Born Digger: At 3rd level, your claw attacks may ignore a number of points of hardness equal to your HD+5.

Tremorsense: At 3rd level, you gain Tremorsense equal to your HD*5ft

Growth: At 4th level, the Umber Hulk grows to Large Size.

Wreck the Earth: At 4th level, you may slam your arms into the ground and break the earth beneath you. As a standard action, you may slam your arms into the ground, and create a (5*Str Modifier)ft circle of permanent Difficult Terrain centered on you. Anyone in your range when you do this must make a Reflex Save equal to (10+1/2HD+STR Mod), or be shunted 15ft backwards and knocked prone for 1 round, thrown into the air in a brutal manner. At 8HD, and every 6HD after that, increase the time victims spend prone by one round. If an affected creature has 5+ ranks in Balance, they gain a +4 bonus to the save.

HULK SMASH!: At 5th level, you gain the Rage ability of a Barbarian, with your effective Barbarian level equalling your HD-4. You do not gain improved versions of Rage like normal Barbarians, but you do get increased uses as you level up, like a Barbarian. These uses of Rage stack with other uses of Rage you already have, or gain the future. Also, while in a Rage, you may ignore an amount of Hardness Points equal to your STR Mod. At 10HD, you do not become fatigued at the end of a Rage.

Object=PAIN!: At 5th level, you gain a morale bonus to your attack rolls equal to your HD/4(Rounded down) when wielding an Improvised Weapon.
Also, any weapon that you wield can be treated as if it had the Throwing enhancement, but with a range of your HD*5 instead of 10ft.

Grab and Smash: At 6th level, whenever you make a successful grapple check, you may automatically damage the opponent as if you had made a successful bite attack (With full attack bonus).

WAAAARRRRGGGG!: At 6th level, when you would only have 25% or less Hit Points left, you gain a bonus to your STR score, equal to your HD-5. This lasts for 1 round after it is activated, even if your HP would rise above 25% afterwards. Once you benefit from WAAAARRRRGGGG once, you may not benefit from it for 2 hours.

Tools of the Trade: At 7th level, you can prove all the nay-sayers wrong and prove you are NOT a dummy! You're clever!
By spending one minute gathering, and making a DC 15 Survival Check, you may make a weapon out of scraps.
You may make any Simple or Martial Melee Weapon with a base value of 100gp or less, you are always considered proficient with your Gathered Weapon, but you may treat it as an Improvised Weapon to gain the bonus from your Object=PAIN! ability.
If someone else would wield your weapon, or would leave it unattended, it falls apart in one round unless it is re-taken. The parts fall harmlessly on a square ajacent, and if you are next to your scraps, you may collect them up (1lb Small Object) and either store them for later, or make a weapon straight away.
If you would roll a Nat 1 on your attack roll while wielding your gathered weapon, the weapon blows up, dealing 1 point of fire damage in a 10ft burst (No save) and is lost forever.
If you already have a pile of scraps in your possession, you do not need to make a Survival Check, and it only takes one round to construct. You may only have one pile of scraps at a time.

Your weapon's Enchantment Bonus is equal to your HD/4, and you may have a number of enhancements on yor weapon with a total bonus score of your HD/4. You may pick from the following list:
Collision, Mighty Cleaving, Throwing, Thundering, Returning, Vicious, Vorpal, and Wounding.

Feats

Multi Beatdown
Prerequisite: 1 or more levels in Umber Hulk, +5 BAB or more
Benefit: If you have a Slam Attack, you gain the Claw Attacks you could of gained at 1st level as secondary attacks. If you have a Claw Attacks, you gain a Slam Attack like the one you could of gained at 1st level as a secondary attack.

Pimp My Beatstick
Prerequisite: Tools of the Trade class ability
Benefit: Choose a Magic Weapon Enhancement that isn't on the list of Enhancements, and add it to the list. You still must meet the HD requirements to apply it to your Improvised Weapon.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, pick a different enhancement and add it to the list.

Posh Beatstick
Prerequisites: Pimp My Beatstick
Benefit: You may now make any Exotic Melee Weaponry with a base price of 100gp or less as well as Simple and Martial Weaponry.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
It's big, it's strong, and it's gre.....buggy looking. He can hit things reliably with your friends, or with junk left on the floor, and if he's not threatening your square, he can still hit you out of the sky at higher levels. Hopefully.

Changelog


9/12/10 - Gave him an STR Bonus, made some things clearer, Allowed it a Slam Attack OR Claw Attacks, improved Grab and Smash, made Wreck the Earth a bit simpler to calculate, reworded HULK SMASH! and WAAAARRRRGGGG! and nerfed Tools of the Trade/balanced it a bit.
12/12/10 - Standardized the saves, made some things clearer, and allowed your Scrap Weapon to blow up on a fumble.
13/12/10 - Fixed the TotT typo, weakened his bite attack, gave Wreck the Earth a standard bonus, they gain +1 STR every now and again past 7th level, and it has Powerful Build. Also, one last addition so you can be TRULY HORRID.
16/12/10 - Cleared up typos, fixed the Growth/Powerful Build clash, fixed the math with Wreck the Earth, and WAAAARRRRGGGG a delay.
27/12/10 - Nerfed WAAAARRRRGGGG by turning it into a short burst.
Stopped Wrech the Earth from grounding flyers, but now it can just throw it's axe/a bus/that annoying Rogue at it instead, thanks to a slight mod on Object=PAIN! Also, it can ignore a bit of hardness instead of Grab and Smash (Which has been moved up to 6th level to make room and slightly boosted accordingly).

Kobold-Bard
2010-12-08, 05:31 PM
Please spoiler screen stretching image.

@Magic: Since this seems to be the new home of the project, I'll put the redone Lamassu here (I've been meaning to do it, really).

How long are you going to wait for permission before adding old monsters. I can only assume since people made them and put them up for people to use, unless you get a specific request to not use them then it'll be ok.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 05:36 PM
Please spoiler screen stretching image.

@Magic: Since this seems to be the new home of the project, I'll put the redone Lamassu here (I've been meaning to do it, really).

How long are you going to wait for permission before adding old monsters. I can only assume since people made them and put them up for people to use, unless you get a specific request to not use them then it'll be ok.

It depends on what everyone else thinks, but I'm thinking that by the end of the week, anyone who has not given express refusal for their monsters to be added will have them added, unless they ask to have them removed. A week should be a good timeframe for people who were looking to make sure their monsters aren't a part to specify that.

Looking forward to seeing Lammasu.

On a quick glance, Umber Hulk looks really fun, and well done. I'll have to read it more thoroughly later, but... nice work! Do make sure to spoiler the image though, or resize it and repost it somewhere.

EDIT: Upon several careful look-throughs, I can't see anything wrong with the Death Knight, so I'll nominate it.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 06:13 PM
Yellow Musk Creeper
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50152.jpg

Hit Dice: d6
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Rooted Body, Vines, Musk Puff, +1 Cha, +1 Con

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Mind Eater, Flowering, +1 Cha

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Growth, Amber Life, +1 Con

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Yellow Musk Zombies, Flowering, +1 Cha
[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Yellow Musk Creeper's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains proficiency with its natural attacks.

Rooted Body: At 1st level, the Yellow Musk Creeper loses all other racial modifiers and gains the Plant type, with all of its benefits and weaknesses. It is medium sized. It has a base movement speed of 15 ft. and two primary natural Vine Whips dealing 1d6 + Str modifier damage. It gains another Vine Whip attack for every 3 HD it has. The Creeper gains a natural armor bonus to AC equal to its constitution modifier. It may not wear armor and weapons must be specially made for it, doubling the base cost of the weapon. It has the ability to perform fine manipulation, but may not speak.

Vines: As a creeping plant, you are able ensnare those who foolishly walk into your embrace, with no danger to you. You take no penalty for having an enemy in your space, or for being in the midst of a grapple.

Musk Puff(ex): A Yellow Musk Creeper may spray heady spores with an intoxicating scent from its flowers. You may target one creature as a standard action by using this ability. This is a ranged touch attack, for which you may use your full base attack bonus. The range of this ability is 10 ft. per HD, and the target must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha Modifier) or fall under the influence of the spores, and desire to move closer to the source of the scent-- you. If 1d6 per 3 HD rounds pass and they have not entered your space, this effect wears off. Otherwise, they can take no action other than to try to enter your space. If they succeed in entering your space, they will drop everything in hand and stand dazed, even unresisting of the creepers attacks. The target will try as hard as they can to take the most direct route necessary to the Creeper. If attacked by allies, they will attempt to avoid the allies and peacefully reach the creeper, however, if the ally blocks their progress, they will attack the ally back while they move to the Creeper. This is a mind-affecting compulsion. Every 2 rounds, the target may make another save to try and break free of the compulsion. If the Yellow Musk Creeper puffs a target who is already entranced, the attack automatically hits, and the target is denied the right to their next save.

At 8 HD this becomes a move action, at 16 HD it becomes a swift action.

Ability Score Bonuses: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains +1 Charisma at levels 1, 2, and 4. It also gains +1 Constitution at levels 1 and 3, for a total of +3 Cha and +2 Con.

Mind Eater(ex): At level 2, the Yellow Musk Creeper gains the ability to extend thousands of razor sharp tendrils which pierce into the skull of enemies and quickly suck out their grey matter. As a free action, a Yellow Musk Creeper may, once per round, deal 1d4 intelligence damage to any or all helpless or unresisting creatures inside its space. After it has started dealing intelligence damage to a creature, the tendrils have latched onto the edges of the creature's skull, and the only way to stop the intelligence drain from happening in each subsequent turn is to kill the Yellow Musk Creeper, kill the victim, or convince the Yellow Musk Creeper to let go. The intelligence damage increases by 1d4 for every 6 HD the Yellow Musk Creeper has. If the victim is reduced to 0 intelligence, they die. The Creeper may also use this attack on any creature who it has successfully grappled this round.

Flowering: The Yellow Musk Creeper is a plant, and thus it is constantly growing, changing into something more powerful. At levels 2 and 4, and once more for every 4 HD they have beyond their first 4, they may select one of the abilities from the list below. Unless otherwise noted, an ability may be taken more than once.
Musk Bomb: Your Musk Puff explodes against its target, billowing out to fill the lungs of nearby foes. When you use it, it also effects foes within 5 ft of your initial target. If you take this ability more than once, the range of the puff increases by 5 ft. each time.

Spore Sniping: The range of your Musk Puff attack increases by 5 ft. per HD. You may take this multiple times, each time increasing the range by 5 ft. per HD.

Focused Blossom: You may make one additional Musk Puff attack with each use of that ability, up to as many attacks as your base attack bonus allows. Each attack after the first is at your next lower attack bonus. You may continue to choose this ability more times than your BaB would allow, but each of these attacks uses your lowest Base Attack Bonus.

Creeper: Your movement speed increases by 5 ft. and you gain +2 on Move Silently checks.

Empowered Zombies: All of your Musk Zombies gain +1 Strength, and +2 Constitution. You may choose when you gain this ability between granting them +1 Dexterity, +1 on Attack Rolls, or +1 Natural Armor. (See Yellow Musk Zombies below for information on these Zombies.)

Greenery Shield: Your regeneration is no longer overcome by either fire or acid, your choice. You may not take this multiple times. (See Amber Life below for information on this regeneration.)


Growth: At level 3, the Yellow Musk Creeper grows to Large size. It continues to grow as follows:
9 HD: Huge size
15 HD: Gargantuan size
21 HD: Colossal size
27 HD: Colossal+ size
Each time it grows an actual size category, its speed increases by 5 feet.

Amber Life(su): The Yellow Musk Creeper is a thing of majesty-- it will continue to shred the minds of its foes until the end of time. Thus, at 3rd level, it becomes nigh impossible to kill. The Yellow Musk Creeper gains Regeneration equal to half its HD, which is overcome by fire and acid.

Yellow Musk Zombies(ex): From now on, when a creature is reduced to 0 intelligence by the Yellow Musk Creeper's Mind Eater ability, instead of dying, they become mindless slaves of the Creeper. This is an extraordinary effect and may not be removed by any means. The Creeper plants a seed inside the victim, who gains the Yellow Musk Zombie template. These Yellow Musk Zombies do not expire after two months. They follow the telepathic orders of the Yellow Musk Creeper unquestioningly, and any shred of the person they once used to be is now gone. A single Yellow Musk Creeper may control up to 3 HD of Yellow Musk Zombies for each of its HD. No Yellow Musk Zombie may have an individual HD greater than the Creeper's HD - 2. You may upgrade a number of Musk Zombies with HD equal your HD to Greater Musk Zombies. Your Greater Musk Zombies must be at least two month old Lesser Musk Zombies.
Lesser Musk Zombies:
Type: Changes to plant, gaining all benefits and penalties of the type.
Hit Dice: Current and future change to d8.
Armor Class: Natural Armor increases by +2
Special Qualities:
Creeper Loyalty(ex): Yellow Musk Zombies always act to protect and nurture the Yellow Musk Creeper that created them. They can range no farther than 100 feet from their progenitor for the first two months of their existence. Thereafter, they may wander freely, or the creeper can command them.
Deadened Mind(ex): A Yellow Musk Zombie recalls nothing of its previous life, and it exists only to serve its parent plant. A yellow musk Zombie loses all class abilities, skill ranks and feats. It loses its spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities. In addition, it cannot use magic devices but can wield weapons and armor. It also loses any innate spellcasting ability.
Plant Traits(ex): A Yellow Musk Zombie is immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorphing. It is not subject to critical hits or mind-affecting effects. The creature also has low-light vision.
Seeded(ex): If a Yellow Musk Zombie dies for any reason, the growing seed inside its head takes root and grows into a Yellow Musk Creeper within 1 hour. The Creeper is not under the control of the original Creeper.
Abilities: Same as the base creature, except the Yellow Musk Zombie has an Intelligence of 2, Dexterity changes to 10, and Wisdom changes to 8.

Curing a Yellow Musk Zombie: A Yellow Musk Zombie's patron plant must be killed before the zombie can be cured of its affliction. Thereafter, a cleric of at least 12th level must cast regenerate or heal upon the character before the implanted seed germinates.

Greater Musk Zombies:
Greater Yellow Musk Zombies have an intelligence of 3, and a Dexterity of 12. It regains any spell-like abilities which duplicate spells of a level of up 1/2 its HD - 2. It regains the ability to use any 1 magic item. Finally, it regains its skills.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
From Fiend Folio
So, I think I've gotten better. I'm pretty proud of this class. The Yellow Musk Creeper is a bizarre plant that creeps along, drugging people and then eating their brains and turning them into zombies. But it's pretty freaking cool, in my opinion. Enjoy!

Changelog
12/8/2010: You now gain a speed increase when you grow.
Posted Yellow Musk Zombie copy.
12/13/2010: Changed ability bonus back to charisma.
Hit Dice changed to d6 from d8.
Photosynthesis removed, replaced with vines.
Musk Puff is now a ray.
Focused Blossom and many flowering abilities have been cut in power.
Less Yellow Musk Zombie control, and Yellow Musk Zombies lose spell-like and supernatural. Added Greater Musk Zombies.
Mind Eater now works on grapple victims.
Musk Puff victims get more saves.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 06:19 PM
You don't specify a limit of yellow musk zombies you can have which seems too powerful for a 3rd level ability.

A base movement speed of 10 doesn't seem that great. pretty much any enemy you come across can outrun you.

you also mention a different monster in the skills section.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 06:22 PM
You don't specify a limit of yellow musk zombies you can have which seems too powerful for a 3rd level ability.

A base movement speed of 10 doesn't seem that great. pretty much any enemy you come across can outrun you.

you also mention a different monster in the skills section.

Wah, thank you for pointing out those mistakes! I meant it to be 4 HD per each of your HD. And yes, those are the Hagunemnon's class skills. Um... sneak preview? :smalltongue:

10 feet is rather slow, but it's a plant... should I bump it up to 15 or 20?

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 06:24 PM
10 feet is rather slow, but it's a plant... should I bump it up to 15 or 20?

I think 20.

Also, the Save DCs of abilities should be mentioned in the monsters. I know the rule is "If not stated, assume 10+HD+Cha mod" but I don't like making assumptions.

Tacitus
2010-12-08, 06:29 PM
I'd say give it a speed based on size. 10ft plus 10ft per Growth (not including Powerful Build)

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 06:35 PM
I think 20.

Also, the Save DCs of abilities should be mentioned in the monsters. I know the rule is "If not stated, assume 10+HD+Cha mod" but I don't like making assumptions.


I'd say give it a speed based on size. 10ft plus 10ft per Growth (not including Powerful Build)

I like that idea. 10 ft is almost unplayable though, so I'll bump it up to 15 ft. and give a 5 ft. bonus for each size category.

Also, stated the save DC of it's Musk Puff ability.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 06:41 PM
Cool class.


Yellow Musk Creeper
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50152.jpg

Hit Dice: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Rooted Body, Photosynthesis, Musk Puff, +1 Cha, +1 Con

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Mind Eater, Flowering, +1 Cha

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Growth, Amber Life, +1 Con

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Yellow Musk Zombies, Flowering, +1 Cha

[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Hagunemnon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).
This says 'Hagunemnon' and ah... jump, really? That might look a bit silly to be good at. Looks like a copying error?

Proficiencies: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains proficiency with its natural attacks.

Rooted Body: At 1st level, the Yellow Musk Creeper loses all other racial modifiers and gains the Plant type, with all of its benefits and weaknesses. It has a base movement speed of 10 ft. and two primary natural Vine Whips dealing 1d6 + Str modifier damage. It gains another Vine Whip attack for every 3 HD it has. The Creeper gains a natural armor bonus to AC equal to its constitution modifier.
The poor movement will cause problems, but is quite flavorful, so good. To check: 2 attacks at 1st level, 3 at 3rd, 4 at 6th, etc.? How I'm reading it. What size is it?

Photosynthesis(ex): A Yellow Musk Creeper, like any plant, needs the sun to survive. Under its warm yellow light, the Creeper flourishes and grows at an alarming rate. You gain fast healing equal to 1/2 your HD when you are in an area of natural sunlight. (Magical light will not do, nor will light produced from flame or any other source. However, a spell which replicates natural sunlight, such as daylight, will activate this ability.)

If you have the Amber Life ability, then when you are in natural sunlight, you still gain the fast healing, and your regeneration doubles to be equivalent to your HD.
How do fast healing and regeneration interact anyway? Heal HD + 1/2 HD?

Musk Puff(ex): A Yellow Musk Creeper may spray heady spores with an intoxicating scent from its flowers. You may target one creature as a standard action by using this ability. The range of this ability is 10 ft. per HD, and the target must make a fortitude save or fall under the influence of the spores, and desire to move closer to the source of the scent-- you. If 1d8 per 2 HD rounds pass and they have not entered your space, this effect wears off. Otherwise, they can take no action other than to try to enter your space, for which you take no penalty. If they succeed in entering your space, they will drop everything in hand and stand dazed, even unresisting of the creepers attacks. A target effected by this ability will even attack companions who try to stop them from entering the square of the Yellow Musk Creeper. This is a mind-affecting compulsion.

At 8 HD this becomes a move action, at 16 HD it becomes a swift action.

As an at-will ability, you've better have based the class around it warlock-style - and looks like you have. What is the Fortitude save based on; Constitution or Charisma? And it's 10+1/2HD+that, right? I like the Fortitude save mind-affecting effect. It's ... unusual.

Perhaps it should be 'will try to enter your space to the best of their ability'. Attacking is a curiously specific behavior, if certainly a possibility.

Also, perhaps phrase it as having a duration of 1d8/2HD rounds, though this isn't particularly important.

Ability Score Bonuses: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains +1 Charisma at levels 1, 2, and 4. It also gains +1 Constitution at levels 1 and 3, for a total of +3 Cha and +2 Con.
Constitution makes sense. Where do you use Charisma? The only possibility I see is the save DC and uses per day of your Musk Puff ability, neither of which currently exist.

Mind Eater(ex): At level 2, the Yellow Musk Creeper gains the ability to extend thousands of razor sharp tendrils which pierce into the skull of enemies and quickly suck out their grey matter. As a free action, a Yellow Musk Creeper may, once per round, deal 1d4 intelligence damage to any or all helpless or unresisting creatures inside its space. After it has started dealing intelligence damage to a creature, the tendrils have latched onto the edges of the creature's skull, and the only way to stop the intelligence drain from happening in each subsequent turn is to kill the Yellow Musk Creeper, kill the victim, or convince the Yellow Musk Creeper to let go. The intelligence damage increases by 1d4 for every 6 HD the Yellow Musk Creeper has. If the victim is reduced to 0 intelligence, they die.

So... you can't sunder the tendrils, rip them out of his head with a heal check after incapacitating the creeper, snap the creature out of it long enough for them to planeshift either themselves or you, turn them undead (er, actually that would probably work) ... Are you completely sure about this?

Flowering: The Yellow Musk Creeper is a plant, and thus it is constantly growing, changing into something more powerful. At levels 2 and 4, and once more for every 4 HD they have beyond their first 4, they may select one of the abilities from the list below. Unless otherwise noted, an ability may be taken more than once.
Musk Bomb: Your Musk Puff explodes against its target, billowing out to fill the lungs of nearby foes. When you use it, it also effects foes within 5 ft of your initial target. If you take this ability more than once, the range of the puff increases by 5 ft. each time.

Spore Sniping: The range of your Musk Puff attack increases by 5 ft. per HD. You may take this multiple times, each time increasing the range by 5 ft. per HD.

Focused Blossom: You may make one additional Musk Puff attack with each use of that ability. None of your Musk Puff attacks in one round may target the same target. Each time you take this, you may Musk Puff one additional time.

Creeper: Your movement speed increases by 5 ft. and you gain +4 on Move Silently checks.
Hurrah, a way to increase that movement speed!

Plant Strength: All of your Musk Zombies gain +2 Strength, and +4 Constitution. They also gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 bonus to natural armor.

Halo of Tendrils: Your brain consuming tendrils gain the ability to make their intelligence drain attacks against anyone within 5 ft. of you. However, unlike those for people in your space, these drain attacks deal only 1d4 intelligence damage and do not permanently latch into the skull of the target. You may not take this multiple times.

Greenery Shield: Your regeneration is no longer overcome by either fire or acid, your choice. You may not take this multiple times.


Growth: At level 3, the Yellow Musk Creeper grows to Large size. It continues to grow as follows:
6 HD: Large size with Powerful Build
9 HD: Huge size
12 HD: Huge size with Powerful Build
15 HD: Gargantuan size
18 HD: Gargantuan size with Powerful Build
21 HD: Colossal size
24 HD: Colossal size with Powerful Build
27 HD: Colossal+ size

Amber Life(su): The Yellow Musk Creeper is a thing of majesty-- it will continue to shred the minds of its foes until the end of time. Thus, at 3rd level, it becomes nigh impossible to kill. The Yellow Musk Creeper gains Regeneration equal to half its HD, which is overcome by fire and acid.

Yellow Musk Zombies(ex): From now on, when a creature is reduced to 0 intelligence by the Yellow Musk Creeper's Mind Eater ability, instead of dying, they become mindless slaves of the Creeper. This is an extraordinary effect and may not be removed by any means. The Creeper plants a seed inside the victim, who gains the Yellow Musk Zombie template. These Yellow Musk Zombies do not expire after any period of time. They follow the telepathic orders of the Yellow Musk Creeper unquestioningly, and any shred of the person they once used to be is now gone.

Okay, this needs explanation. Specifically, what the heck is a Yellow Musk Zombie? I've never seen this monster before, and I haven't got a clue.

Also, how many zombies may you control, and what happens if you exceed that number? I really would rather not unlimited zombies. Maybe twice your HD in HD of zombies, but again, I don't know the template.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
From Fiend Folio
So, I think I've gotten better. I'm pretty proud of this class. The Yellow Musk Creeper is a bizarre plant that creeps along, drugging people and then eating their brains and turning them into zombies. But it's pretty freaking cool, in my opinion. Enjoy!

Changelog
Nope, none yet.



My comments in quote. Flowerlicious minion crafter. Your musk isn't going to be much use against a good variety of creatures (undead, constructs, fellow plants), but hopefully your minions will be. I like this thing, and must incorporate one into future campaigns somehow.

Edit: Looks like quicker people beat me to the obvious points. :smalltongue:

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 06:51 PM
This says 'Hagunemnon' and ah... jump, really? That might look a bit silly to be good at. Looks like a copying error?

Yup, it was. Already fixed.


The poor movement will cause problems, but is quite flavorful, so good. To check: 2 attacks at 1st level, 3 at 3rd, 4 at 6th, etc.? How I'm reading it. What size is it?

Fixed movement speed. Forgot to add that it's medium. Yes, that is the correct number of attacks.


How do fast healing and regeneration interact anyway? Heal HD + 1/2 HD?

Fast Healing heals you of Lethal Damage, Regeneration offers great protection and heals you of Nonlethal Damage. So when you have both, you heal Nonlethal Damage AND Lethal Damage. So essentially, if in sunlight, you heal almost all damage dealt at a rate of your HD per round, and you heal fire and acid damage at a rate of 1/2 your HD per round.


As an at-will ability, you've better have based the class around it warlock-style - and looks like you have. What is the Fortitude save based on; Constitution or Charisma? And it's 10+1/2HD+that, right? I like the Fortitude save mind-affecting effect. It's ... unusual.

Perhaps it should be 'will try to enter your space to the best of their ability'. Attacking is a curiously specific behavior, if certainly a possibility.

Also, perhaps phrase it as having a duration of 1d8/2HD rounds, though this isn't particularly important.

Yeah, I fixed the missing save. The fortitude mind-affecting is because it's a physical, nonmagical effect that effects your body.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about attacking, if you could specify...? Would be great. Thanks very much.

I'll rephrase that to make it better, thank you.


Constitution makes sense. Where do you use Charisma? The only possibility I see is the save DC and uses per day of your Musk Puff ability, neither of which currently exist.

Your Musk Puff Save DC, also, it just makes sense. Makes your flowers more entrancing, you know?


So... you can't sunder the tendrils, rip them out of his head with a heal check after incapacitating the creeper, snap the creature out of it long enough for them to planeshift either themselves or you, turn them undead (er, actually that would probably work) ... Are you completely sure about this?

Maybe I'll add something about removing them reflexively when the Creeper is incapacitated.



Okay, this needs explanation. Specifically, what the heck is a Yellow Musk Zombie? I've never seen this monster before, and I haven't got a clue.

Also, how many zombies may you control, and what happens if you exceed that number? I really would rather not unlimited zombies. Maybe twice your HD in HD of zombies, but again, I don't know the template.

Template in Fiend Folio. They're not really undead, they're plants. Maybe I should make a quickie monster class for it to go along with the Creeper? It doesn't give much in the way of bonuses. Basically all it does is turn you into a plant and make you slave to a Yellow Musk Creeper.


And thank you very much for critiquing, I'm glad it looks okay. :smallsmile:

un_known
2010-12-08, 06:55 PM
Thanks for the Wendigo! And great job on everything I've seen so far!

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 06:57 PM
Template in Fiend Folio. They're not really undead, they're plants. Maybe I should make a quickie monster class for it to go along with the Creeper? It doesn't give much in the way of bonuses. Basically all it does is turn you into a plant and make you slave to a Yellow Musk Creeper.


I think you should just say what it gives them. A large amount of groups might not have the fiend folio and therefore no way to check what the template does.

remember, try to keep the abilities things you can find within the SRD.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:01 PM
You mention 'A target effected by this ability will even attack companions who try to stop them from entering the square of the Yellow Musk Creeper.' Just feel like this is a bit specific a behavior prescription, when there might be more efficient methods of getting to your space.

Tacitus
2010-12-08, 07:01 PM
Fast Healing

A creature with fast healing has the extraordinary ability to regain hit points at an exceptional rate. Except for what is noted here, fast healing is like natural healing.

At the beginning of each of the creature’s turns, it heals a certain number of hit points (defined in its description).

Unlike regeneration, fast healing does not allow a creature to regrow or reattach lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached.

A creature that has taken both nonlethal and lethal damage heals the nonlethal damage first.

Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Fast healing does not increase the number of hit points regained when a creature polymorphs.

Emphasis .

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:09 PM
Ah, forgot to ask - can it use weapons and shields? And what would armor tailored for it look like, anyway? :smalltongue:

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:09 PM
I think you should just say what it gives them. A large amount of groups might not have the fiend folio and therefore no way to check what the template does.

remember, try to keep the abilities things you can find within the SRD.

Okay, posted a copy of the template.


You mention 'A target effected by this ability will even attack companions who try to stop them from entering the square of the Yellow Musk Creeper.' Just feel like this is a bit specific a behavior prescription, when there might be more efficient methods of getting to your space.

Well, it's not saying that that specific behavior will occur, it's stating the amount to which the creature is enthralled. They will even go to the extent of attacking an ally if they must. It's not saying, "If someone tries to stop them, they'll beat that person up."


Emphasis .

Okay, fair enough. In that case I suppose the Fast Healing will help you regenerate quickly and then start to slowly work on the fire/acid damage.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:14 PM
Changing 'would' to 'might' could work fine, to make it clear it's an option rather than a specific compulsion. :smallwink:

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:17 PM
Changing 'would' to 'might' could work fine, to make it clear it's an option rather than a specific compulsion. :smallwink:

Okay! :smallsmile: Changed. Thank you!

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:24 PM
Hmm... musk zombies can still use the spell-like abilities of their old form? Could be kinda fun. What about racial casting, which isn't specified as any sort of ability whatsoever? It duplicates a class feature, so it's *probably* scrubbed, but ... (I know that part's not yours, but it's interesting to consider.)

Do shields count as weapons?

It's looking nice. :smallsmile:

Edit: Also, put a note in about how fast healing and regeneration interact. If it confused us, it will confuse others.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:26 PM
Hmm... musk zombies can still use the spell-like abilities of their old form? Could be kinda fun. What about racial casting, which isn't specified as any sort of ability whatsoever? It duplicates a class feature, so it's *probably* scrubbed, but ... (I know that part's not yours, but it's interesting to consider.)

I would say that is probably kept-- a creature keeps their inherent abilities, just not those gained by knowledge.


Do shields count as weapons?


I should think so.

It's looking nice. :smallsmile:

Thank you very much! :smallbiggrin:

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:28 PM
I would say that is probably kept-- a creature keeps their inherent abilities, just not those gained by knowledge.

Maybe fullcasting as a sorcerer. But as a cleric or wizard, who has to prepare their spells? :smallconfused: They're not smart enough to even pick their spells, much less pray to a god long forgotten for a flower.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:29 PM
Maybe fullcasting as a sorcerer. But as a cleric or wizard, who has to prepare their spells? :smallconfused: They're not smart enough to even pick their spells, much less pray to a god long forgotten for a flower.

Does any creature actually have full cleric or wizard casting? I'm now just picturing a baby of some race popping out with a spellbook in hand, studying arcane arts. I thought that all racial casting was in some way innate.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 07:30 PM
Does any creature actually have full cleric or wizard casting? I'm now just picturing a baby of some race popping out with a spellbook in hand, studying arcane arts. I thought that all racial casting was in some way innate.

There's the angel.

Looking at the Yellow Musk creeper zombie thing now.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:30 PM
Does any creature actually have full cleric or wizard casting? I'm now just picturing a baby of some race popping out with a spellbook in hand, studying arcane arts. I thought that all racial casting was in some way innate.

Trumpet archon has cleric casting of its HD + 2. So ... more than full casting.

Edit: I was thinking of trying my hand at that, but I couldn't figure anything beyond HD-1 cleric casting, their trumpet-weapon that is evidently +1/3 HD, archon abilities, DR and SR. Not that those wouldn't be fun, but that is not a 14-level class. Suppose I'll stick with smaller ones for now.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:40 PM
There's the angel.

Looking at the Yellow Musk creeper zombie thing now.


Trumpet archon has cleric casting of its HD + 2. So ... more than full casting.

Edit: I was thinking of trying my hand at that, but I couldn't figure anything beyond HD-1 cleric casting, their trumpet-weapon that is evidently +1/3 HD, archon abilities, DR and SR. Not that those wouldn't be fun, but that is not a 14-level class. Suppose I'll stick with smaller ones for now.

Fair enough. I didn't write it, so we can only guess at what was intended. What do you think?

Kobold-Bard
2010-12-08, 07:44 PM
Ethergaunt get's Wizard casting = HD.

What are you doing about the ethergaunt btw? Gorgon removed Oslecamo's (admittedly overpowered) one.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:45 PM
Fair enough. I didn't write it, so we can only guess at what was intended. What do you think?

I think racial spellcasting should probably be nixed, personally. Can't see mindless creatures casting spells or manifesting powers very well, and definitely not preparing them (though I don't think much of anything gets powers as an erudite). Even setting Wisdom to 10 doesn't entirely solve clerics - 10 is enough for orisons, after all.

Edit: I daresay that setting Int to -, does, however, solve wizards.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 07:51 PM
Ethergaunt get's Wizard casting = HD.

What are you doing about the ethergaunt btw? Gorgon removed Oslecamo's (admittedly overpowered) one.

As I've said before, anyone willing to revise a class is more than welcome to. I'll try to revise some of the old ones myself if I can, at some point, but, you know...

Oslecamo made a number of overpowered classes, for now, I may just re-add it to the project for reference, possibly with a note that it is not approved for balance. What do you all think?

Musk Zombies: I'll change the template so it sets Wisdom to 8 instead.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 07:56 PM
As I've said before, anyone willing to revise a class is more than welcome to. I'll try to revise some of the old ones myself if I can, at some point, but, you know...

Oslecamo made a number of overpowered classes, for now, I may just re-add it to the project for reference, possibly with a note that it is not approved for balance. What do you all think?

Musk Zombies: I'll change the template so it sets Wisdom to 8 instead.

If the DM happens to be using the monster classes (which I do) we've still got Cha-based nymph druid zombies to poke.

Edit: Also, give your zombie a periapt of wisdom +6 and suddenly he can cast fine. I still think negating the spellcasting entirely would be best.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 08:08 PM
If the DM happens to be using the monster classes (which I do) we've still got Cha-based nymph druid zombies to poke.

Edit: Also, give your zombie a periapt of wisdom +6 and suddenly he can cast fine. I still think negating the spellcasting entirely would be best.

Okay, done that.

Betropper
2010-12-08, 08:33 PM
Phew, did it pretty fast, although it admittedly might be a bit OP.

Gibbering Mouther
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG126.jpg


Hit Dice:d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|+0|+2|+0|+0|Gibbering Body, Blood Drain

2nd|+1|+3|+0|+0|Spittle +1 Con

3rd|+2|+3|+1|+1|Gibbering,

4th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Ground Manipulation, +1 Con

5th|+3|+4|+1|+1|Engulf, Growth[/table]

Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)x4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Gibbering Mouther’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Knowledge(Dungeoneering)(Int) Survival (Wis) Escape Artist (Dex) Listen (Wis) Spot (Wis)

Proficiencies: The Gibbering Mouther gains proficiency with its own natural weapons.

Gibbering Mouther Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Gibbering Mouther:

Gibbering Body:Starting at 1st level the Gibbering Mouther loses all racial traits and gains Aberration traits. He cannot be flanked and is not subject to critical hits. He gains two bite attacks that deal 1d4+Str damage, and gains another mouth every 4 HD. It gains a natural AC bonus equal to it's Con modifier. He is capable of extending a mouth for fine manipulation (although he can't use weapons) and cannot wear armor. A Gibbering Mouther can speak, although it talks with all it's mouths at once.

Blood Drain:A 1st level Gibbering Mouther can drain blood from his victims. If he hits with his bite attack, he can latch on with the mouth to the creature he hit as a move action (if he has one to expend). This becomes a swift action at level 5. Every subsequent turn, the creature the Mouther is latched on to must make a DC (10+1/2HD+Con) Str check or Reflex save (creature's choice) or take 1d4 points of damage for each attached mouth. The Mouther then gains the same amount of HP that was lost by the drained opponent. A creature that is attached by this ability as well as the gibbering mouther cannot move unless they are two size catagories larger than the mouther, but is not considered grappled. If an opponent that is attached succeeds on this save, the mouth is removed. Add an extra d4 for damage from this ability per 5 HD. A mouth attatched to an opponent cannot be used to make a bite attack. The Gibbering Mouther can disattach at any time.

Spittle: A 2nd level Gibbering Mouther can fire a line of acidic spittle as a standard action. This ranged touch attack (Not a breath weapon) deals 1d6 acid damage per 2 HD to a creature within 30 feet, plus 10 feet per 5 HD. At 5th level the creature must make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. Increase this number by 1d4 for every 4 HD.

Gibbering:At 3rd level Gibbering Mouther can emit a random cacophony of nonsense. Once per day per 3 HD the Gibbering Mouther may force all opponents in a 60 foot radius to make a DC (10+1/2HD+Cha) Will save as a standard action. If they fail, they are affected as per the spell Lesser Confusion. The caster level for this spell is equal to the HD of the Gibbering Mouther.
At 5th level this effect also deals 1d4 sonic damage per 2 HD.
At 10 HD they are affected as per the spell confusion instead.
At 15 HD the radius upgrades to 120 feet.
At 20 HD it is no longer a mind affecting ability.

Stat Bonus: At 2rd level a Gibbering Mouther gains strength from the blood it has sapped from its many victims. It gains a +1 bonus to Con. At fourth level, he gains another +1 to Con.

Ground Manipulation: At 4th level a Gibbering Mouther can manipulate the ground itself. As a full round action, a Gibbering Mouther of 4th level can cause stone and earth in a 10 foot radius to become quicksand. Increase this number by an extra 10 feet for every four HD the gibbering mouther has. Anyone other than the Gibbering Mouther in that area must treat it as difficult terrain. This lasts for 1/2HD rounds and after affected creatures leave the area they must make a DC (10+1/2 Gibbering Mouther's HD+Con) will save. If they fail they fall prone due to the weight of the leftover sand. At 10 HD any creature caught in the quicksand for three rounds must use a standard action every turn or sink in the quicksand, removing their ability to move until the quicksand dissapates. At 15 HD, a creature caught in the quicksand for four rounds sinks in totally and cannot move or attack and begins to suffocate (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con Will save to escape). If the save is made, they break free, but are still in the quicksand area and still subject to it's effects. Any creature still in the quicksand is ejected onto solid ground at the end of the spell. At 20 HD the sunken creature isn't ejected and is treated as being buried 20 feet in the earth.

Engulf: A 5th level Gibbering Mouther can engulf opponents he has gripped. If an opponent that is equal to or smaller than the Gibbering Mouther that is gripped using Blood Drain has been successfully latched on with any number of mouths for two rounds, the opponent falls into the Gibbering Mouther and is swallowed whole (as the ability, except the following changes). The creature is subject to Blood Drain every round and cannot attack from within. They can escape by making their saving throw against the effects of blood drain, although the DC of it increases by 2 per round in the mouther. During this time period, the Gibbering Mouther regains use of the mouths it was gripping with. Also, the Gibbering Mouther can chose to make a standard action to focus on the engulfed foe, automatically dealing Blood Drain damage for all the mouths he currently has unless the saving throw against it is made. If they suceed on this saving throw they are still engulfed however. Only one creature can be engulfed at a time.

Growth: A 5th level Gibbering Mouther becomes Large. At 10 HD it becomes Huge, at 16 HD Gargantuan, and at 21 Colossal.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
I'm not sure if this guy is overpowered, I'll see what the community has to say.

Changelog
Dec. 8, 2010: Fixed up some grammar and buffed up Spittle and Blood Drain
Dec 9, 2010: Made some specifications to Spittle, Blood Drain, and Ground Manipulation.
Lowered the DC for all class abilities a bit.
Lowered BaB, added fine manipulation, cleared up some details, and edited all skills.
Dec 12, 2010: Added another stage of progression for Gibbering, fixed up saves, and made some clarifications on Engulf.
Dec 14, 2010: Buffed Engulf up a bit, clarified the CL on Gibbering and fixed the Reflex save.
Made Ground Manipulation stronger, made it so he coudn't wear armor, and fixed Blood Drain.
Dec 16, 2010: Made some grammar changes and misunderstandings on class abilities.
Dec 22, 2010: Fixed up mistakes in growth, added a +1 to Str, added a size requirement to be affected by blood drain, and added the type of action for gibbering.
Jan 1, 2011 (Happy new year!): Edited some misunderstandings in Blood Drain and Spittle. Also changed the stat upgrades and buffed Ground Manipulation.
Feb 5, 2011: Fixed up some overpowed scaled abilities on Gibbering and clarified up some points on Ground Manipulation, removing one part entirely.

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 08:35 PM
Check your tables quick. :smallsmile:

Betropper
2010-12-08, 08:38 PM
Check your tables quick. :smallsmile:

Just noticed that :smallbiggrin:

Kajhera
2010-12-08, 09:07 PM
Just noticed that :smallbiggrin:

Also some formatting issues with asterisks in the body thing.

Sorry, a bit too late for me to be particularly useful in studying the thing. :smallsigh:

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 09:08 PM
The saves look odd and the mouths seem like they should at least deal + half strength modifier, or they won't be worth using at higher levels.

FishAreWet
2010-12-08, 10:36 PM
@Gibbering Mouther
Saves should be 10 + 1/2 HD. You have 10 + HD listed. Is this on purpose? I think it should be half HD.
Eventually Blood Drain should be a swift action to allow for full round attacks. As listed it's basically a Full Round action to attach to someone. I would change it from dealing a scaling d4 of damage to multiples of bite damage.
Why is Acid Spittle a full round action? Knock it down to standard.
Remove [Compulsion] from Gibbering. First level spells shouldn't make you immune to things like this.
Change Ground Manipulation to a Move Action and reword it to say "stone and earth in a 10ft per 4HD radius becomes difficult terrain. This lasts for 3 rounds" And add in that the Gibbering Mouther can ignore it. Maybe make it last Con modifier rounds to add an elemental of scaling? At high HD levels this needs to do something to flying creatures. What? Good question. Maybe at 14HD flying creatures get knocked out of the air?
Make clear that a creature who makes a save to escape from the stomach ends up attached to a mouth again.

Great ideas. I really do like this thing.

@Kyuubi
I agree. I assumed it meant a bite with a base damage of d4 but if not it definitely should be.

Temotei
2010-12-08, 10:43 PM
Under professionalism, it doesn't say anything about capitalizing every word in the table. Since WotC never capitalizes every word (just the first word in every row, etc.), is it okay if I change my classes to have non-capital letters? :smallbiggrin:

It would make me temporarily excited.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-08, 11:50 PM
Can somebody help me on overhauling the Silver dragon? I'm stumped right now.

bladesmith
2010-12-09, 01:24 AM
Huh, just a couple of thoughts from someone who hasn't contributed to the thread before. Anyways, the silver dragon seems good at two things; flying and learning. My suggestion would be to pick on those. Things like adding a Lore ability(yeah, still kinda boring...), or some sort of crazy flight thing that only it can pull off. Perhaps something that allows it to make a dive attack with only 10 ft of movement and a height advantage(so even if its just jumping down on someone). Give it a snappy name("Drop like a rock"?) and it might be alright. Or enhance its mobility with a flyby attack ability. Or perhaps use its breath weapon to create a shapeable fog effect for it to walk on. Maybe the fog effect can scale in usefulness as HD increase(obscuring mist->solid fog, or something).

Eh, that's what comes to mind at the moment. I'll let you know if I get any more.

EDIT: Creating wisps of cloud to run off of/enhance maneuverability in the air would be a neat effect. Kinda "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", except you make your own walls to run across or up.:smalltongue:
EDIT 2.0: Does anyone know if Hydrua is still working on the Purple worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638)? 'Cause if he isn't, I might take a crack at polishing it up a bit. Just because I want to see it on the finished list.:smallbiggrin:
MOAR EDITS: About the Silver Dragon: why does it it get electricity and acid resistance, rather then cold? Admittedly, these things aren't supposed to completely match the original, but I see no flavor reason to change that. That, and I should probably note that all this is going off the assumption that you think the basics(saves, skills, etc) are satisfactory(which they seem to be.
As for more ideas: you may want to take Silver Feat, and Quick Learner, and just give them an extraordinary version of the spell "Heroics". Also, while I like the flavor of Silver Flier(making Silvers marathon fliers), it needs something more to make it exciting. My first thought would be to just toss Wingover in there, but that is still pretty bland.

AugustNights
2010-12-09, 05:27 AM
Under professionalism, it doesn't say anything about capitalizing every word in the table. Since WotC never capitalizes every word (just the first word in every row, etc.), is it okay if I change my classes to have non-capital letters? :smallbiggrin:

It would make me temporarily excited.

Capitalization, and its use, is one of my weaknesses when it comes to any language. Would it be appropriate to revise the example tables? And It's okay with me if you change your classes to have non-capital letters.

Betropper
2010-12-09, 07:43 AM
Changed up the Gibbering Mouther a bit.

Kajhera
2010-12-09, 08:13 AM
You still have asterisk issues under Strange Body.

It would be cool if (Blinding) Spittle got quicker as well.

The inability to latch on with attacks of opportunity vaguely annoys me, though it might be intentional. :smalltongue: If you wanted to be able to do that, having it improve to an immediate action or explicitly be usable on your opponent's turn might work.

Its, not It's under Engulf.

10+HD+Cha is still a weird DC.

Blood drain and engulf feel weird to me, but it's a weird monster, so I'm not sure if that's good or bad. :smalltongue: Probably good.

Edit: Also, there's really nothing more I can do on the ankheg to implement suggestions, and it doesn't have a ton of room for new abilities. Unless you want me to pare it down, I think it's pretty close to done, and much more flavorful than when it started.

Mystic Muse
2010-12-09, 01:16 PM
MOAR EDITS: About the Silver Dragon: why does it it get electricity and acid resistance, rather then cold?

It has the cold subtype so it gets immunity to cold from that. It gets electricity and acid resistance instead of immunity because 3 immunities at first level is too strong even with vulnerability to fire.

monkman
2010-12-09, 01:26 PM
Awesome, it's a nice warm feeling to have the Avenger done finally, and I'll be sure to pay that back by helping the next featured monster.

Until then, I made this class:
Thorn (MMIII Pg 172)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/Zemro-Shivic/Thorn.jpg

Class
Hit Die: d6

Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int Mod) x4
Skill Points at each additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature, Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Ability Boosts

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Body of Thorns, Weapon of Thorns|
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Protection of the Courts, Subduing Strike +1d6|+1 Dex
3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Slumbering Shots|
4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Weapon of Barbs, Subduing Strike +2d6|+1 Dex[/table]

Profs,Should go here,Not in the body section.
Body of Thorns: A Thorn looses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Fey type with the following traits:
Small Size
Base Land Speed 20ft
Low-light Vision
Proficiency with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, longsword, rapier, shortbow, shortsword and whip.
Proficiency with light armour, bucklers and light shields
Natural armor should be in this section.

Weapon of Thorns (Ex): Thorns are trained to use special weapons and ammunition, crafted with many barbs to create a very thorn-like appearance. While wielding such a weapon a Thorn can freely deal either leathal or non-lethal damage and may inflict slashing or piercing damage in place of a weapon's standard damage type. Creatures without this ability take a -2 penalty while wielding a Weapon of Thorns weapon due to the added difficulty and gain no benefits from doing so.

When without such a weapon and within a natural environment a Thorn may use small power granted to them by the faerie courts and force the weapon or 50 pieces of ammunition to grow curved thorns in can take proper advantage of. This process takes five minutes and only changes the weapons appearance, it still benefits from any properties of the material used in its original construction or those imbued with magical enchantments. This is a supernatural ability.
How about you let it turn weapons into thorns and then it able to use the abilities.(but it would have a max enhancement bonus(+x) of 1/4hd(min is 0) and a max propriety bonus of (1/4Hd)(min 0)) He would also be able to choose what bonuses he could put on the weapon.

Ability Boosts: Starting at second level and again at fourth Thorns receive a +1 bonus to dexterity, for a total of +2 dexterity.

Protection of the Courts (Ex): Through training and devotion to their courts, Thorns of second level realize a new potential in their blood. They gain a natural armour bonus equal to their constitution modifier and DR/cold iron equal to half their HD.
Natural armor,As stated should go in body section,

Subduing Strike (Ex): Continuing to advance in skill with their thorned weapons, Thorns of second level can deal an additional 1d6 points of damage when striking non-lethally. This increases to 2d6 points of nonlethal damage at fourth level. If a Thorn gains the ability to strike non-lethally without penalty from another class, he increases his subduing strike damage by 1d6 while doing so.

You may treat subduing strike as sneak attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes. Classes that advance sneak attack can advance your subduing strike damage instead, but you must still follow the limitations of your subduing strikes.
What happens if you want to sneak attack?Does this stack with the sneak attack bonus or do you only deal you other class damage?

Slumbering Shots (Su): Drawing from the power of their linage, third level Thorns and higher can imbue their arrows with the power of slumber. The power comes to them naturally and is done as free action made as part of the action used to fire the arrow. Thorns may only fire a number of slumbering shots per day equal to their HD*2.

Any creature struck by one of this arrows must succeed on a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis Mod or be affected as though by a sleep spell, regardless of HD. If the creature has unhealed non-lethal damage or the attack itself deals non-lethal damage it receives a -2 penalty to this save.

Weapon of Barbs (Ex): Thorns of fourth level can add their dexterity modifier as a bonus to damage when wielding a thorned weapon, and also gain an additional benefit depending on the type of weapon.

Melee: Against an offguard opponent a Thorn can use that edge to strip away their defences. Against a target that would be denied its dexterity bonus to AC or that the Thorn flanks, he reduces any natural armour bonus they posses by one per successful attack. Their natural armour bonus returns to normal after receiving 5 points of healing for every one point of natural armour removed. Creatures with no natural armour, or those who've had it completely reduced take an extra 50% damage from the Thorn's melee subduing strikes.

Ranged: The barbs on thorned thrown weapons and pieces of ammunition cause them to get stuck in the wounds they make, removal of these takes a move action and deals damage equal the the weapon's base die. Alternately a standard action and DC 15 heal check can be used to remove one safely. These weapons are particularly cumbersome and bestow a -1 penalty to dexterity per weapon until removed. Further saves against the Thorn's slumbering shots ability are made at an addition -1 penalty per stuck slumbering arrow (ontop of any it may be taking from having non-lethal damage, or non-lethal attacks).


Changelog
December 3rd
Rolled DR and NA into one ability, renamed 'Protection of the Courts.'
Fixed some spelling errors.
Weapon of Thorns updated to quantify pieces of ammunition effected.
Subduing strikes tweaked to allow for later advancement through PrCs.
Slumbering shots tweak to make less abusable and more straight forward.
Weapon of Barbs changed to make it a bit more versatile and effective.
December 7th
Spelling Corrections
Minor tweak to Weapon of Thorns
Removed said tweaked, attached to Subduing Strikes instead

Comments
Thorns were interesting, and a bit smaller of a class then I thought when I originally got the concept down. Their thorn weapons were cool, and I liked the fluff and sleeping arrows. Building on that I put him together with a sort of control focus, taking down enemies in a condition to imprison or try them in the Fey Courts afterwords. Subduing Stikes was initially used d8s, since it takes more subdual damage to take someone down, but I reduced it to d6s when I started adding everything else.

I'm not completely happy with Weapon of Barbs ranged feature, but that's what feedback and suggestions are for.

The Marrash is mostly complete as well, but I'm heading out tonight and I'm more of a one-at-a-time type guy, so I'm going to finish and work on polishing him up behind the scenes for when the Thorn's finished.


More reviews to come.

bladesmith
2010-12-09, 01:27 PM
Yeah, the Ankheg seems pretty well fleshed out. The only thing I might change(and this isn't really necessary) is to change the "No use of weapons and shields" to "Not capable of fine manipulation", or something like that. Just because claws like that really can't manipulate much. Like I said, not a big deal, though.

Uh, gibbering mouther. Ew. :smalltongue: First thing I noticed that someone else hasn't seemed to point out yet is that no save is specified to avoid Blood Drain. I'm guessing Reflex save, but it should say something more then just "save". Also, I don't know if this would help much, but maybe just specify 1d4/5HD damage.
With Spittle, we're having another lack of save. Is it a ranged touch attack? A 1 sq AoE with a Reflex save for half damage? An auto-hit? You should probably specify.
Gibbering says it is in a 60 ft spread. Um... I may not be the most material saavy, but that doesn't mean much to me besides 'AoE'. Is it a cone, or a burst? If it is the second one(which I suspect), you might want to add "radius" to the text. [Huh, so that's the original text's wording? Tells you how much I use Gibbering Mouthers.]
Flavor-wise, I don't get the DR/- that comes with an engulfed creature. Its just not making sense to me.

Other then those, I like the Gibbering Mouther. The changes to Ground Manipulation was a nice touch, and you managed to make a good looking class without going outside the bounds of the original monster. Not many that you can do that with.

EDITS:

It has the cold subtype so it gets immunity to cold from that. It gets electricity and acid resistance instead of immunity because 3 immunities at first level is too strong even with vulnerability to fire.
Oh, Bleh. I blame a late night for me missing the cold subtype bit. My bad. Still, I guess the next question is; why does it have resistances to electricity and acid at all? It doesn't make much sense flavor-wise(well, maybe a little) but it seems like other dragons don't get any other resistance beyond their immunity.

monkman
2010-12-09, 01:39 PM
Grell

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88142.jpg


Grell: A base character class.

Hit Dice: d8

{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Aberrant Body, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Improved Grab, Constrict, Improved Flight, +1 Dex
3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
[/table]

Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks.
Grell craft weapons should be in the profs.
Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with fly speed 20' (perfect). A grell is blind. A grell can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons. They have electricity resistance equal to their HD.
Don't give it fly speed at level 1.Make it hover instead.

A grell is immune to paralysis.
I would have to say no immunity to paralysis and both the paralysis and the resistance to electricity should go in another ability(make one).
Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die.
Are grells blind?(doesn't seem like they have eyes)
Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): 2xHDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.
Supposedly i hit with 3 tentacles,Would it use 1 or 3 uses? As well,Specify when he can use this attack(before or after the attack rolls)
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category, and decreases by a step when the grell loses a size category. (Phrasing?)
The phrasing is good,just take out the *damage increase.... loses a size category*

Improved Flight: A 2nd-level grell's fly speed improves to 30'.
Increase the speed of 5/Hd instead of giving it 10ft.In this ability,Give it (at 4hd) a perfect maneuverability fly speed.

Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell employ their tentacles to excellent effect in grapples, using their smaller ones to assist. They gain a +1 racial bonus on all grapples per tentacle they possess.

A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1 per tentacle, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a grell with 10 tentacle attacks takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle.

Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.

Grellcraft Weaponry

Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts.

A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon. It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.


Changelog:

*Clarified some things.
*Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
*Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
*Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
*Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
--
*Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
--
*Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
*Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.


Another review.

Betropper
2010-12-09, 02:07 PM
Made some changes to the Gibbering Mouther.

monkman
2010-12-09, 02:14 PM
I'm going to keep the T-Rex/Black Dragon as little projects to do at a later date/a rainy day, so for now my second (and final for now) contribution..........

Umber Hulk

http://howardlyon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Umber-Hulk.jpg


Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Umber Body, Object=Pain

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Confusing Gaze

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Grab and Smash, Tremorsense

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Growth, Wreck the Earth

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|HULK SMASH!, Object=PAIN!

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+2|WAAAARRRRGGGG!!!!!

7th|
+5|
+|
+2|
+2|Tools of the Trade[/table]
Str bonus?
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Umber Hulk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Umber Hulk gains proficiency with it's natural attacks, and all simple weaponry.
Say that is also get profs with any weapon made from the*tools of the trade*Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Umber Hulk.

Umber Body: The Umber Hulk loses all previous racial traits and gains the Aberration Type. It gains a Land Speed and Burrow Speed of 20ft, and it also gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing 1d4+1.5 STR Mod, and a secondary bite attack dealing 1d8+1/2 Str Mod.
I would think that it would be able to do slam attacks as well as claws,let the person choose which one he wants,I would also change the damage to 1d6 for the claws/slam.
Is it able to do fine manipulation as well as wearing armor?
Where the natural armor?

Object=Pain: The Umber Hulk takes no penalty whatsoever for using Improvised Weapons, and may use a willing person/unconcious person/dead corpse as an Improvised Weapon dealing damage equal to a Quarterstaff of the appropriate size, and with a damage bonus equal to the person's/body's HD/4. You may not wield a body that is too big for your size.

Class Feature: At 2nd level the Umber Hulk gains a Gaze Attack that is as Lesser Confusion, with a DC of (10+1/2HD+WIS Mod). At 7th level, this is upgraded to Confusion.
Class feature? What action is this? and how many times per day Can he use this?

Grab and Smash: At 3rd level, when you suceed on an opposed grapple check to pin an opponent, you may make an immediate full attack as an immediate action.
I think allowing a free bite attack,Would be better,As well as making the opponent flat footed for the attack..

Tremorsense: At 3rd level, you gain Tremorsense equal to your HD*5ft

Growth: At 4th level, the Umber Hulk grows to Large Size.

Wreck the Earth: At 4th level, you may slam your arms into the ground and break the earth beneath you. As a standard action, you may slam your arms into the ground, and create a HDft*HDft*HDft circle of Difficult Terrain centered on you. Anyone in your range when you do this must make a Balance Check equal to half your STR score, or be shunted 5ft backwards and knocked prone for 1 round, thrown into the air in a brutal manner. At 8HD, and every 6HD after that, increase the time victims spend prone by one round.
When you use this ability at 12HD, all flying creatures 100ft and below within a HD*5 radius must make a Reflex save equal to your STR score, or fall out of the sky, hit the ground and take falling damage.
HdXhdXhd??What? Make the range HDxStr score(in ft)
Save should be a reflex save.
Dc should be 10+1/2HD +str modifier.
Does the difficult terrain ever re become It's normal state?
I would take out the ability to affect flying(it's not a sonic attack)
HULK SMASH!: At 5th level, you gain the Rage ability of a Barbarian, with your effective Barbarian level equalling your HD-4. You do not gain improved versions of Rage like normal Barbarians, but you do get increased uses as you level up, like a Barbarian. These uses of Rage stack with other Rage/Frenzy abilities from other classes. Also, while in a Rage, you may ignore an amount of Hardness Points equal to your STR Mod. At 10HD, you do not become fatigued at the end of a Rage.
Would i be able to take this class to be able to multiclass into something that needs rage?(frenzied berserk?)
What happens if the creature is already an barbarian?
Is shouldn't stack for frenzy,Only for rages.
Object=PAIN!: At 5th level, you gain a morale bonus to your attack rolls equal to your HD/4(Rounded down) when wielding an Improvised Weapon.

WAAAARRRRGGGG!: At 6th level, when you would only have 25% or less Hit Points left, you gain a bonus to your STR score, equal to your HD-5. This lasts for one hour after it is activated.
Maybe allow a consitution score as well?

Tools of the Trade: At 7th level, you can prove all the nay-sayers wrong and prove you are NOT a dummie! Your clever! By spending one minute gathering, and making a DC 15 Survival Check, you may make a weapon out of scraps. You may make any Melee Weapon with a base value of 100gp or less, you are always considered proficient with your Gathered Weapon, but you may treat it as an Improvised Weapon to gain the bonus from your Object=PAIN! ability. If someone else would wield your weapon, or would leave it unattended, it falls apart in one round unless it is re-taken. The parts fall harmlessly on a square ajacent, and if you are next to your scraps, you may collect them up (1lb Small Object) and either store them for later, or make a weapon straight away. If you already have a pile of scraps, you do not need to make a Survival Check, and it only takes one round to construct. You may only have one pile of scraps at a time.
Allow it only martial and simple weapons,I know of quite alot of exotic weapons worth 100 gp and less.

At 7th level, the weapon you construct is a +2 Wounding Weapon
At 10HD, your weapon is a +3 Wounding, Throwing and Returning Weapon
At 15HD, your weapon is a +4 Wounding Throwing Returning Keen Weapon
At 20HD and above, your weapon is a +5 Vorpal Wounding Throwing and Returning Weapon
I think that this is too overpowered and some abilities are quite useless.
Allow it an enchacement bonus equal to Hd/4. And a propriety bonus equal to Hd/4 but only allow certain things,(wounding,Collision and things like that)
Comments/Changelog:

Comments
It's big, it's strong, and it's gre.....buggy looking. He can hit things reliably with your friends, or with junk left on the floor, and if he's not threatening your square, he can still hit you out of the sky at higher levels. Hopefully.

Changelog


None as yet.


Nice creature,Gecko,Do you still remember your capstone for your Ultroloth(It was something about getting an Marraenoloth or something like that for an companion)If you do Would you mind writing here or Pm it(it doesn't matter if you forgot it)

Betropper
2010-12-09, 02:44 PM
Nice creature,Gecko,Do you still remember your capstone for your Ultroloth(It was something about getting an Marraenoloth or something like that for an companion)If you do Would you mind writing here or Pm it(it doesn't matter if you forgot it)

On a roll, are you? :smallbiggrin: third or so critique today?

Mystic Muse
2010-12-09, 02:53 PM
Oh, Bleh. I blame a late night for me missing the cold subtype bit. My bad. Still, I guess the next question is; why does it have resistances to electricity and acid at all? It doesn't make much sense flavor-wise(well, maybe a little) but it seems like other dragons don't get any other resistance beyond their immunity.

Probably because the monster itself has them. They aren't really that powerful and are easy to outclass with items so I don't really see a problem with them.

monkman
2010-12-09, 03:03 PM
Phew, did it pretty fast, although it admittedly might be a bit OP.

Gibbering Mouther
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG126.jpg


Hit Dice:d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|+1|+1|+1|+0|Strange Body, Blood Drain

2nd|+2|+2|+2|+0|Spittle

3rd|+3|+2|+2|+1|Gibbering, +1 Con

4th|+4|+3|+3|+1|Ground Manipulation

5th|+5|+3|+3|+1|Engulf, Growth[/table]
Why full bab? It would be better a 3/4 bab.
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)x4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Gibbering Mouther’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Knowledge(Dungeoneering)(Int) Survival (Wis) Escape Artist (Dex) Listen (Wis) Spot (Wis)

Proficiencies: The Gibbering Mouther gains proficiency with it's own natural weapons.

Gibbering Mouther Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Gibbering Mouther. [/B]??

Strange Body:Starting at 1st level the Gibbering Mouther loses all racial traits and gains Aberration traits. He cannot be flanked and is not subject to critical hits. He gains two bite attacks that deal 1d4+Str damage, and gain another every 2 HD. It gains a natural AC bonus equal to it's Con modifier.
Fine manipulation?Armor??

Blood Drain:A 1st level Gibbering Mouther can drain blood from his victims. If he hits with his bite attack, he can latch on as a move action (if he has one to expend). This becomes a free action at level 5. Next turn, the creature the Mouther is latched on to must make a DC (10+1/2HD+Con) Str check or Reflex save (creature's choice) or take 1d4 points of damage Per mouth? and cannot move. The Mouther then gains the same amount of HP. If he succeeds, the mouth is removed. Add an extra d4 for damage per 5 HD. The Gibbering Mouther loses one bite attack for each mouth latched on at the time.

Spittle: A 2nd level Gibbering Mouther can emit a spittle of acid as a standard action. This ranged touch attack deals 1d6 acid damage per 2 HD to a creature within 30 feet. At 5th level the creature must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds.
I think a reflex save would be more appropriate here.Gibbering:At 3rd level Gibbering Mouther can emit a random cacophony of nonsense. One per day per 3 HD the Gibbering Mouther may force all creatures in a 60 foot radius to make a DC (10+1/2HD+Con) Will save. If they fail, they are affected as per the spell Confusion for 1 round per HD. This is a sonic mind-affecting compulsion effect. At 15 HD this becomes Insanity, and at 20 HD Weird.
I think that the save should be 10+1/2HD +cha modifer (the con dosnt have a place here)
Say that the caster level is his Hd.
I would suggest to take out the bolded part as it has no point in being there.

Ground Manipulation: At 4th level a Gibbering Mouther can manipulate the ground itself. As a full round action, a Gibbering Mouther of 4th level can cause stone and earth in a 10 foot radius per 4 HD to become quicksand. Anyone other than the Gibbering Mouther in that area must treat moving a single square as moving two squares. This lasts for three rounds.
Squares? I think that saying that it makes the ground, Difficult terrain would be better.
I think that it should last A number of rounds equal to Half it's Hd.
How many times can it use it a day?Engulf: A 5th level Gibbering Mouther can engulf opponents he has gripped. If an opponent that is equal to or smaller than the Gibbering Mouther that is gripped using Blood Drain has failed it's save two times, the opponent falls into the Gibbering Mouther and is engulfed. The creature is still subject to Blood Drain and cannot attack from within. They can escape by making their saving throw against the effects of blood drain. During this time period, the Gibbering Mouther regains use of the mouth it was gripping with and gains DR/- equal to half the engulfed creature's HD. Only one creature can be engulfed at a time.

Growth: A 5th level Gibbering Mouther becomes Large. At 15 HD it becomes Huge.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
I'm not sure if this guy is overpowered, I'll see what the community has to say.

Changelog
Dec. 8, 2010: Fixed up some grammar and buffed up Spittle and Blood Drain
Dec 9, 2010: Made some specifications to Spittle, Blood Drain, and Ground Manipulation.
Lowered the DC for all class abilities a bit.

Well here's your critic my friend.

Magicyop
2010-12-09, 03:12 PM
Maug
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50149.jpg

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0| Construct Body,Pulverize,+1Str
2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+0|Graft,+1Str
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Rapid Repair,Growth +1str
[/table]
HD=D10

Skills 2+int modifier(x4 at first lv) Class skills Craft,Intimidate,Knowledge(architecture andengineering),Listen,Profession (siege engineer and soldier),Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: A maug gains proficiency with all armor,all sheild(including tower shields) simple and martial weapons

Construct Body :The Maug loses all racial modifiers and receives the Construct type (which grants darkvision 60'), medium size, 40 ft. land speed, and 2 natural slam attacks dealing 1d8+strength modifier damage.A maug is able to wear armor.

No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, ability damage, fatigue or exhaustion, or energy drain
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed
Never being alive to begin with, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. It can only be revived by a wish, limited wish, miracle, or by reconstructing the Maug's body (requiring 10000 gp worth of specially treated alloys- or the golem's previous body, and a DC 18 Stonecrafting check) and then a reincarnate spell, which will always put the Maug's soul into the new effigy.
Constructs does not breathe, eat, or sleep.

A maug also gains natural armor equal to it’s strength modifier

The maugs also get a +4 bonus to Craft (stonemasonry) and Knowledge (architecture and engineering) checks.

The Golem also gains +1 HP per HD at 5 HD. This bonus increases to +2 at 10 HD, +3 at 15 HD, and +4 at 20 HD. I suggest you give some love to epic level adventurers and just say, "A bonus of +1 HP per HD, for every 5 HD you have." That way at level 25 it becomes +5, at level 30 it becomes +6, etc.

Pulverize: 1 time per Hd per day. A maug is able to overcome any DR and hardness of an object or creature with all it's attack for 1 round. Action? Free, I assume.

Rapid Repair: A Maug gains fast healing equal to half his HD.

Growth: A muag grows to large size.

Grafts:
Graft should be an actual class feature. Just explain that they get their choice of the following and give the list.
Shoving arm
The shoving arm is attached to the waist of a maug. This arm allows the maug to make a bull rushed attack with no attack of oppertunity each round.It also gives a bonus to bull rush attemps equal to the maug's HD.

Nice, cool and useful!


Shudder plate
A maug with a shudder plate gains the tremorsense ability with a range of 5ft/3HD.The shudder plate takes no item slot and it still permits the wear of armor.
The range is kind of limited. Fun, but limited. Maybe bring it up to 5 ft/2 HD?


Wrist Razors:
Various retractable spikes, blades and appendages spring out from around and on the maug's hand: its slam attacks now deal piercing and slashing.The damage of the maug's slam also increase by one step.

Long Legs:
The Maug gains Run as a bonus feat, gets a bonus to jump checks equal to 1/2 his HD, and gains a +10' bonus to move speed.
Awesome.


Stone Spiliter
With the stone spilter graft a maug is now able to fire bullets that damage 1d6 (for a medium sized maug) with a critical of 19/20X2. A maug is able to fire 1 bullet a round.It can hold up to 50 sling bullets.This graft reloads automaticly.
Fun! Specify what action this is. I recommend essentially giving them an extra attack with their bullet, on top of whatever attack they make that round. Like the wrist-mounted crossbows of the Iron Golem.

Grappling Hook:
The Maug gains a chain & hook attached to his palm and spooled in his arm, which he can launch up to a distance of 30 feet plus 5 per HD, as a ranged touch attack. If successful, the Maug makes a grapple check as if he had the improved grapple feat. If successful, the foe is dragged into the Maug's square or the Maug is dragged to the foe's square (Maug's choice), and the grapple goes on as normal.
An additional application of this upgrade allows the Maug to deal an additional 1d8+strength modifier (or 2d6+str if large sized) constriction damage each turn of the grapple.


Overall, looks like a great class, very much "Iron Golem Lite", for those who want a little bit more "sturdy" and less "magic resistant". I think you should allow them to spend feats on upgrades like the Iron Golem gets, but that's just me.

I like it though, it's really neat.

AustontheGreat1
2010-12-09, 03:21 PM
I agree completely. One of the biggest problems at the moment is not everyone has given their permission for us to link their classes, so most of the ones up there are Oslecamo's. While our focus will be on new monster classes, it's definitely worth the time to go back and revise the old ones.

You can use any of mine that you think are worth using.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-09, 03:58 PM
@Monkman

Thanks for that review, made all the changes bar one - The Umber Hulk can still slam people out the sky. I'm not going to budge on that because if there's one thing I think Melee gets ganked by, it's fliers. On a lighter note, added the Mult Beatdown and the Pimp My Beatstick feats. :smallsmile:

NecroticPunch
2010-12-09, 06:10 PM
I would like to formally request the creation of an Ak'chazar Rakshasa monster class.

That is all.

Reposting this since the guy who claimed it got banned.

Kajhera
2010-12-09, 06:19 PM
Another review.

Thanks. :smallsmile: Made at least an effort to implement your suggestions, clarified and changed phrasings as needed.

Betropper
2010-12-09, 07:03 PM
Well here's your critic my friend.

Didn't notice some of those details :smallbiggrin: thanks for pointing them out. I also buffed up Engulf a bit because it seemed to be lacking since they only need to make one saving throw to get out and it takes two failed ones (exactly the same) to be engulfed.

Rumel
2010-12-09, 07:09 PM
WereScorpion

http://www.bradstokan.com/SCORPIONconcept.gif
Large picture...

Prerequisites
To become a WereScorpion, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another WereScorpion.

HD: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Alternate form Scorpion, Scorpion empathy, Lunar body, Scorpion Senses, Poison

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0| Alternate form (Hybrid), Lunar hide

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+0| +1 Dex, Whip Tail, Size

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1| Curse of Entomnothropy, Adaptive [/table]
Skills Points at Each Level: 2+Int mod (x4 at 1st HD)

Class Skills: The WereScorpion’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Handle Animal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Jump (Str), Climb (Str), Hide (Dex)

Proficiencies: A WereScorpion gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the WereScorpion...

Lunar Body: The WereScorpion retains all of its old racial modifiers and gains the (Shapechanger) subtype. It gains Darkvison 60 Ft if it did not already possess it. A WereScorpion gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its constitution modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below). While in Humanoid form the WereScorpion gains a bonus to natural armor equal to half its constitution modifier. The WereScorpion is never considered mindless.

Alternate Form: At first level, the WereScorpion gains a Medium size Scorpion Alternate Form. While in Scorpion form, the WereScorpion cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands or feet, but gains two claw attacks for 1d4+Str mod damage each and a sting attack dealing 1d6+1.5xStr mod damage. While in Scorpion form the WereScorpion’s movement speed is 30ft, with a climb speed equal to his base land speed. A WereScorpion may assume this form 1/day/HD

At second level, the WereScorpion can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between its Scorpion form and its Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the WereScorpion gains two claw attacks dealing 1d4+1/2xStr mod damage and a sting attack dealing 1d6+Str mod damage, as well as the same movement speeds, however the WereScorpion retains its abilities to manipulate objects, use weapons, and speak.

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A WereScorpion can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

For every level of WereScorpion, or for every two in another class, the WereScorpion's Alternate Forms improve as shown below.

{table] [Entomanothrope] Level+ 1/2 HD of other Levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+2 Dex
3|+2 Dex, +1 Con
4|+3 Dex, +1 Con
5|+4 Dex, +1 Con
6|+4 Dex, +2 Con
7|+5 Dex, +2 Con
8|+6 Dex, +2 Con
9|+6 Dex, +3 Con
10|+7 Dex, +3 Con
11|+8 Dex, +3 Con
12|+8 Dex, +4 Con[/table]

Scorpion Empathy: The WereScorpion can communicate with Scorpions, and other Scorpion like Magical Beasts, regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on Charisma based checks to influence such Vermin, however the WereScorpion gains no such bonus on influencing Magical Beasts.

Scorpion Senses: Beginning at first level the WereScorpion, while in Scorpion form gains Tremorsense out to 5 ft per HD and gains a bonus on Jump checks equal to its HD. At second level the WereScorpion gains the full benefits of Scorpion Senses regardless of form. (Including Skill Bonus).

Poison: At first level, while the WereScorpion is in Scorpion Alternate form, it gains a poison dealing 1d4 Con damage as Primary and Secondary damage, with a Fort save negating. (DC=10+1/2HD+Con mod). Ever 4 Hit Die the WereScorpion has increases the poison die by one size. He has enough venom to do this 1/day/HD.

Lunar Hide At second level, while in either Scorpion or Hybrid form, the WereScorpion gains DR/Silver equal to its HD/2.

Ability Score Increase: At third level the WereScorpion gains a +1 increase to the Dex Ability Score in all forms.

Size: At third level, a WereScorpion’s Scorpion or Hybrid forms may be Medium or Large. The WereScorpion chooses its size each time it assumes one of its Alternate Forms.

When A WereScorpion changes size its natural attacks are re-sized for appropriate damage. For every size increase beyond Medium the Lycanthrope gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class while in Alternate Form.

A WereScorpion of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A WereScorpion of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending two normal transformations.

A WereScorpion of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Whip Tail: At third level the WereScorpion gains an improved sting attack, which now may be used as if it were a whip for trip or other standard whip bonuses and it becomes a reach weapon with an increased range of 5ft per 4HD. This only functions while it is in Scorpion Alternate Form.

Adaptive: At fourth level the WereScorpion gains the Whip Tail ability while in Hybrid form and his poison may also be injected by his Slashing or Piercing weapons.

Curse of Entomanothropy: At fourth level the WereScorpion can transmit Entomanothropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of (the same sizes as the Prerequisites for this class) is hit by the WereScorpion’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the WereScorpion’s HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Entomanothropy. Entomanothropy Functions exactly as Lycanthropy except as noted above. For more information on Entomanothropy (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a\), check the Lycanthrope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm) entry in the monster manual.

Betropper
2010-12-09, 07:42 PM
The WereScorpion

http://www.bradstokan.com/SCORPIONconcept.gif
Large picture...

Class
Prerequisites
To become a WereScorpion, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any medium or large humanoid or giant
Special:Must have been injured by the natural attack of another WereScorpion and contracted Entomanothropy.
HD:d8
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Alternate form(Scorpion), Scorpion Empathy, Lunar body, Poison
2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Alternate form(hybrid), Scorpion Traits
3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Growth, Greater Scorpion
4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Curse of lycanthropy, Sharpened Tail [/table]
Skills: 2+int mod. Class skills are Intimidate (Cha), jump (Str), hide (Dex), listen (Wis), move silently (Dex), spot (Wis), survival (Wis), Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Tumble (Dex).
Think you are missing a few

Proficiencies: A WereScorpion gains proficiency with their own natural weapons

Features:

Lunar body(ex): WereScorpions retain old racial modifiers and gain the Shapechanger subtype. They gain low-light vision and Dark-vision 60ft if they did not already possess it.

A WereScorpion gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus while in Scorpion or hybrid form. While in humanoid form their natural armor is equal to half their Con bonus

Scorpion Empathy: a WereScorpion can communicate with Scorpion like beasts and gains a +4 bonus on charisma based checks to influence them, also he may communicate with Scorpion like Magical Beasts, all regardless of form.

Alternate Form (Su): At first level, a WereScorpion can take Monstrous Scorpion form. While in Scorpion form, a WereScorpion cannot use weapons, because of his giant claws, but gains two claw attacks dealing 1d4+Str Mod damage and a sting attack dealing 1d6+ 1.5xStr mod piercing damage. A WereScorpion can transform 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.


For every level in WereScorpion, or for every two in another class, the WereScorpion's alternate form improves as shown below
{table]WereScorpion level+1/2 other levels | Ability improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+1 Dex, +1 Con
3|+2 Dex, +1 Con
4|+2 Dex, +2 Con
5|+3 Dex, +2 Con
6|+3 Dex, +3 Con
7|+4 Dex, +3 Con
8|+4 Dex, +4 Con
9|+5 Dex, +4 Con
10|+5 Dex, +5 Con
11|+6 Dex, +5 Con
12|+6 Dex, +6 Con [/table]

At second level, a WereScorpion can assume hybrid form. While in hybrid form, a WereScorpion gains two claw attacks for 1d4+ 1/2xStr mod damage each and a sting attack dealing 1d6+Str mod damage, and can wield any weapons they could use in humanoid form. Both alternate forms are medium sized, regardless of the creature's humanoid size.

Poison: At first level, While the WereScorpion is in Scorpion (or Hybrid) form its sting attack may inflict poison 1/day/HD. (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution Modifier and causes 1d4 constitution damage as Initial and Secondary damage. At every 4 HD this damage increases in size.) 2d4 Con damage at first level? Also, you forgot to name the type of save.

Scorpion Traits: a WereScorpion gains a bonus to Jump and Climb equal to 1/2 his HD. Also, he gains Weapon Finnese as a bonus feat for all of his natural weapons.

Growth: At 3rd level, a WereScorpion's alternate forms may become Large if desired, though it may still become Medium.

A WereScorpion of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.


A WereScorpion of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending three normal transformations.


A WereScorpion of 20 HD or more may choose to become Collosal by expending four normal transformations.

Greater Scorpion: A WereScorpion gains benefits from his powers. He may replace his Str mod with Dex for damage with his tail (and may add it to his claws at 12 HD).
The new rules say that you should have an animal-only power at 3rd level, and a hybrid-only one at fourth.

Curse of lycanthropy: At 4th level a WereScorpion can transmit lycanthropy to other creatures. If a medium or large humanoid or giant is hit by their natural attacks while they are in alternate form, the creature must make a fortitude save(DC10+1/2HD+Con modifier) or contract lycanthropy. For more information on lycanthropy, check the lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.

Whip Tail: At 4th level a WereScorpion’s tail becomes even more deadly. Their tail improves by one step. It also gains an improved reach of +5ft and every 10hd it gains a 5ft bonus to a max of +15ft at 20 HD. Any feats or powers that affect a whip will work on it's tail and it may use any Bonuses a whip gets such as the ability to tril and disarm.
same as above

CHANGELOG:
•None yet (in this thread)

Since I'm not good at critiquing I'll just grade the obvious ones.

FishAreWet
2010-12-09, 09:24 PM
@Werescorpion, why not allow smaller alternate forms as well?

Zemro
2010-12-09, 09:39 PM
@monkman: Thanks for the critique, I found it quite valid and have addressed the points you brought up.

@Everyone Else: I'm going to get ready for some more critique of the newer monsters over the weekend. Until then, if you wouldn't mind looking over the Thorn class and either making suggestions or nominations if you have no suggestions.

Kajhera
2010-12-09, 09:42 PM
First: Under Body of Thorns, it will be 'loses' not 'looses' unless you're going for a poetic image.

Second: Its enhancement bonus, not 'it's'.

Third: Under melee in your weapon of barbs, your possess is missing the last s.

Okay, minor editing things done.

--

1st: I would not care to play this class at first level. What does it get over a bard? Natural armor. That's not worth losing what a bard gets (cantrips, bardic knowledge, three bardic music effects). This level is worthless until you take more levels, and should probably get something else that works off the bat.

Ah wait, you can deal nonlethal damage freely. ... Yeah, that's not enough. Not killing people isn't all that hard.

2nd: You get DR, a pleasant boost to damage, and a dex boost. Okay, I can work with that. The ability to deal nonlethal more easily starts to pay off. Comparing it to sneak attack, it applies in more situations, though you get it a touch later than the rogue does.

3rd: A single ability? Hmm ... free action? Good... 2*HD? Good... wait, it only applies to arrows? What if I want to shoot thorny bolts or spiky sling bullets? Fort save, fine, sleep spell, very useful, buffed by nonlethal damage, cool, that ability grows in use. Worry: Another ability useless against constructs and undead. That's all for nothing.

4th: Before even looking at the class: Hurrah! My weapons can suddenly kick ass with changeable enhancements. I can put Construct Bane on it and make up for my earlier weakness against them. I get a bonus to Dex, which is nice of course ... and now let's look at my class features. Ooh. Score. Add my dex to damage, just as a straight bonus; suddenly those dex bonuses become increasingly useful. Strip away natural armor to empower nonlethal attacks: Somewhat weird to think about but neat in mechanics. Barbs to annoy and sleep-poison people: Also cool.

This capstone makes me happy.

Advice: Find a way to make it more playable at first level; that's my main trouble with it.

radmelon
2010-12-09, 10:17 PM
I just saw the Umber Hulk, and I think it may be one of the best classes I've seen here yet. It has several options, and the focus on improvised weapons really helps the whole "Big monster swinging rubble at foes" image.

I would like to endorse nominate it.

<edit>Herp fixed. :smallredface:

Magicyop
2010-12-09, 10:32 PM
First of all, remember that in this thread, the term is 'nominate'.

But I'm not going to be anal about it. Do what you want. :smalltongue:

Now, I'll tell you what I'm doing: I'm slowly but surely going down the list of unfinished monsters, from the top, and making sure my name is either under nomination, or suggestion for each of them. I highly suggest you all do the same, it's pretty satisfying.

In that same vein, I've noticed that new monsters get critiqued/nominated quickly for a brief period of time, but monsters which have been up for a while (see Bleakborn, Maug, Living Spell) are generally passed over. Let's not let that happen! Even older monsters deserve a look over. :smalltongue:

On that note, I'd like to nominate the Solamith. It looks like a really fun demon, and well made, in addition to being well balanced. My own comment would be that it would be super fun if you could steal your enemy's skin to use Foreign Soulfire, but that's no big deal. It oughta go on the list.

Kajhera
2010-12-09, 10:44 PM
Okay, I'm going to comment on the living spell. Nothing particularly detailed, but... pretty basic.

Spell Slam subjects the enemy to your anima. What in the world does this do for: Mage Hand, Unseen Servant, Dancing Lights, Glyph of Warding ( ... :smalleek:), Ventriloquism, Transmute Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock, Forcecage, Hallucinatory Terrain, or Project Image?

I'm not sure what exactly it does for several others (like fly), but those are the ones that quite confuse me.

Rumel
2010-12-09, 11:26 PM
Completely re-did the WereScorpion... May I post another creature, or do I have to wait?

Magicyop
2010-12-09, 11:35 PM
Okay, I'm going to comment on the living spell. Nothing particularly detailed, but... pretty basic.

Spell Slam subjects the enemy to your anima. What in the world does this do for: Mage Hand, Unseen Servant, Dancing Lights, Glyph of Warding ( ... :smalleek:), Ventriloquism, Transmute Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock, Forcecage, Hallucinatory Terrain, or Project Image?

I'm not sure what exactly it does for several others (like fly), but those are the ones that quite confuse me.

For fly, mage hand, unseen servant, all of the hand ones, I added descriptions of the function a while back. I think I stated the Ventriloquism work at the normal range of the spell.

Transmute Rock to Mud and Mud to Rock basically transmutes the ground beneath you, because that's what you're touching. So slam an enemy, and their square turns to mud as per the spell, etc. Forcecage works just like the spell-- slam and they may be imprisoned. The illusion one have little combat utility, but D&D isn't all about combat.

Rumel: Post as many monsters as you like, I think. Nobody has a problem with that, right?

Kajhera
2010-12-09, 11:36 PM
(>to werescorpion person)

No one has objected to my working on two, and Magi's working on multiple himself, so I presume it's fine. Just don't spread yourself too thin.

On that note, I've been thinking about Trumpet Archon. They supposedly disdain physical combat, yet have better Strength and Constitution than anything else ... so not sure what to do on that. Since their identifying feature is their trumpet, I think it might be neat to give them bardic music in exchange for a bit of their cleric casting, but that still gives me 6 or 7 empty-looking levels to fill out.

>to Magicyop

Okay, I see those now, and will make sure to read them... er... the glyphs still confuse me I think. Glyph of Warding is making me picture an abusive, jealous living spell husband, which is really weird.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-10, 12:07 AM
I find it shameful that the ankheg has not received one single nomination. If Kajhera wants to add some more creative stuff to it, fine, but so long as she specifies that it does not get fine manipulation, it should be good to go.
Thus, I hereby give the ankheg my nomination, with the stipulation that it receives the "lacking fine manipulation" clause. You all should too.:smallamused:

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 12:14 AM
I find it shameful that the ankheg has not received one single nomination. If Kajhera wants to add some more creative stuff to it, fine, but so long as she specifies that it does not get fine manipulation, it should be good to go.
Thus, I hereby give the ankheg my nomination, with the stipulation that it receives the "lacking fine manipulation" clause. You all should too.:smallamused:

Thank you! :smallsmile: Yeah I forgot to add that in; such has been remedied.

Temotei
2010-12-10, 12:20 AM
Rumel: Post as many monsters as you like, I think. Nobody has a problem with that, right?

Of course not.

Starsign
2010-12-10, 10:59 AM
Does this thread still let people make requests? If so I'd like to request the Mohrg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm) from MMIII (I think). I also hope there's no alignment requirements for the class, I'd love to play a hulking mass of undead as a crusader of protection and hope. :smalltongue:

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 11:06 AM
Does this thread still let people make requests? If so I'd like to request the Mohrg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm) from MMIII (I think). I also hope there's no alignment requirements for the class, I'd love to play a hulking mass of undead as a crusader of protection and hope. :smalltongue:

There aren't alignment requirements for any class, though you may be just a tad less likely to benefit from evil-aligned weapons if you're good.

Hmm... CR 8, natural armor, a natural attack and a natural touch attack, paralysis, improved grab, and create spawn. Looks like this one's going to need a little filling in. :smallwink:

Rumel
2010-12-10, 11:08 AM
Does this thread still let people make requests? If so I'd like to request the Mohrg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm) from MMIII (I think). I also hope there's no alignment requirements for the class, I'd love to play a hulking mass of undead as a crusader of protection and hope. :smalltongue:

I think it's more of a favorite alignment system, not required, because you can't help how your born, but if your a horrible, brain-eaiting, soul-stealling monster... Chances are you won't be good... That said, I believe the Templates and PrC's should have alignment restrictions because you do not choose them first level... Anything else to add, or anything incorrect about this mini-rant?

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 11:13 AM
I think it's more of a favorite alignment system, not required, because you can't help how your born, but if your a horrible, brain-eaiting, soul-stealling monster... Chances are you won't be good... That said, I believe the Templates and PrC's should have alignment restrictions because you do not choose them first level... Anything else to add, or anything incorrect about this mini-rant?

Templates are fairly likely to have alignment restrictions. Half-fiends must be non-good, while gravetouched ghouls must commit specific evil acts (though they don't specifically have to be evil).

The usual alignment of a monster is, of course, still the usual alignment of a monster.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-10, 11:24 AM
I think it's more of a favorite alignment system, not required, because you can't help how your born, but if your a horrible, brain-eaiting, soul-stealling monster... Chances are you won't be good... That said, I believe the Templates and PrC's should have alignment restrictions because you do not choose them first level... Anything else to add, or anything incorrect about this mini-rant?

Well, actually, you sortof can help how you're born. I believe all mohrgs were evil murderers in life: that's one of the qualifications to become one.
Doesn't mean it needs an alignment requirement, though.
With templates and PrCs, that all depends- for example, the half-fiend template should not have an evil alignment requirement, because, as you stated, you can't help how you're born. The unholy scion however? Yeah, you need to be evil for that.

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 11:35 AM
Of course, in general, templates have restrictions at all, while base classes do not.

But yeah, as soon as someone says the half-fiend has to be nongood someone's going to want to play Merlin.

monkman
2010-12-10, 11:49 AM
Of course, in general, templates have restrictions at all, while base classes do not.

But yeah, as soon as someone says the half-fiend has to be nongood someone's going to want to play Merlin.

Already haved:smalltongue:, Anyways speaking of templates, Shouldnt the awaken skeleton be remade into a template for any creature?Instead of only for medium sized creatures.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-10, 11:51 AM
Already haved:smalltongue:, Anyways speaking of templates, Shouldnt the awaken skeleton be remade into a template for any creature?Instead of only for medium sized creatures.

Well, as is it's not perfect, but it makes sense. First of all, it loses its previous mind and gains a new consciousness on becoming an awakened skeleton- it's less of a "skeleton" and "awakened human skeleton", which is certainly a race.

monkman
2010-12-10, 11:54 AM
Well, as is it's not perfect, but it makes sense. First of all, it loses its previous mind and gains a new consciousness on becoming an awakened skeleton- it's less of a "skeleton" and "awakened human skeleton", which is certainly a race.
I'd advise we change the name on the list to "awakened human skeleton", and then, if you'd like, we could make a skeletal template.

I think that ''Awakened Humanoid Skeleton'' Would be better.

Gorgondantess
2010-12-10, 11:59 AM
I think that ''Awakened Humanoid Skeleton'' Would be better.

Either way... once a creature is a skeleton, it's lost its soul. It is a soulless creature, and its only vestige of the life it once had is superficial.
Actually, it might be cool to make additional levels optional on the awakened skeleton to make for any race you can think of. Each level you choose an upgrade... one might give additional natural attacks, one might give a size increase/powerful build/slight build, one might give movement increase/changes, the works. It starts out with the awakened skeleton as is, and then you go from there.

Rumel
2010-12-10, 12:54 PM
Since this is "Home-Brew" friendly... I have a few ideas to try out... Mixing elementals... Air+Water=Storm Cloud... Air+Fire=Heat Wave... Water+Earth=Mud or Ice (undecided, but leaning towards ice)... Earth+Fire=Lava... Any objections or requests to make one of my ideas... Or a vote for ice or mud... Or both?

Niezck
2010-12-10, 01:00 PM
Fairly certain they already exist? Storm/steam/magma/etc

Or maybe I'm thinking of Mephits ...

*Shrug*

I'll get to updating the Phrenic Creature a bit later on.

Kobold-Bard
2010-12-10, 01:01 PM
Since this is "Home-Brew" friendly... I have a few ideas to try out... Mixing elementals... Air+Water=Storm Cloud... Air+Fire=Heat Wave... Water+Earth=Mud or Ice (undecided, but leaning towards ice)... Earth+Fire=Lava... Any objections or requests to make one of my ideas... Or a vote for ice or mud... Or both?

I give you the Paraelemental (http://moa.dracandros.com/Paraelemental_Planes) & Quasielemental (http://moa.dracandros.com/Quasielemental_Planes) Planes:


List of Paraelemental Planes -

Paraelemental Plane of Ooze (between Earth and Water)
Paraelemental Plane of Ice (between Water and Air)
Paraelemental Plane of Smoke (between Air and Fire)
Paraelemental Plane of Magma (between Fire and Earth).


List of Quasielemental Planes -

Quasielemental Plane of Mineral (between Earth and Positive Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Dust (between Earth and Negative Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Radiance (between Fire and Positive Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Ash (between Fire and Negative Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Lightning (between Air and Positive Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Vacuum (between Air and Negative Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Steam (between Water and Positive Energy)
Quasielemental Plane of Salt (between Water and Negative Energy)

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 01:06 PM
As far as homebrew classes go, from the FAQ:

"Q) What monsters am I allowed to make into a monster class?
A) We encourage Homebrewers to build any monster they wish to see as a playable character class, though we would prefer that Homebrewers build Monster Classes for Monsters that have either been published, or that have been Finished and well P.E.A.C.H.ed."

I personally think this thread should be reserved for existing monsters as much as possible, and we should start a companion thread with player-crafted monster classes of monsters that don't appear in published works. :smallsmile: It would be somewhat easier to reference that way.

Benly
2010-12-10, 02:19 PM
Well, actually, you sortof can help how you're born. I believe all mohrgs were evil murderers in life: that's one of the qualifications to become one.

Spontaneously-occurring mohrgs are, but Create Undead can turn any available corpse of more or less appropriate shape into a mohrg. (Technically by RAW it doesn't even have to be of appropriate shape, but I've usually seen the "dead body" requirement of the spell interpreted as "humanoid corpse" for making humanoid undead.)

The point applies for undead with such a requirement and no other creation method, though.

monkman
2010-12-10, 04:02 PM
Yellow Musk Creeper
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50152.jpg

Hit Dice: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Rooted Body, Photosynthesis, Musk Puff, +1 Cha, +1 Con

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Mind Eater, Flowering, +1 Cha

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Growth, Amber Life, +1 Con

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Yellow Musk Zombies, Flowering, +1 Cha

[/table]
Why cha?I think that Str might be better.
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Yellow Musk Creeper's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains proficiency with its natural attacks.

Rooted Body: At 1st level, the Yellow Musk Creeper loses all other racial modifiers and gains the Plant type, with all of its benefits and weaknesses. It is medium sized. It has a base movement speed of 15 ft. and two primary natural Vine Whips dealing 1d6 + Str modifier damage. It gains another Vine Whip attack for every 3 HD it has. The Creeper gains a natural armor bonus to AC equal to its constitution modifier. It may not wear armor and weapons must be specially made for it, doubling the base cost of the weapon.
Can it speak or use fine manipulation?
Photosynthesis(ex): A Yellow Musk Creeper, like any plant, needs the sun to survive. Under its warm yellow light, the Creeper flourishes and grows at an alarming rate. You gain fast healing equal to 1/2 your HD when you are in an area of natural sunlight. (Magical light will not do, nor will light produced from flame or any other source. However, a spell which replicates natural sunlight, such as daylight, will activate this ability.)

If you have the Amber Life ability, then when you are in natural sunlight, you still gain the fast healing, and your regeneration doubles to be equivalent to your HD. Note that regeneration will not effect lethal damage, while fast healing will heal nonlethal damage until you have none before it starts working on the lethal damage.

Musk Puff(ex): A Yellow Musk Creeper may spray heady spores with an intoxicating scent from its flowers. You may target one creature as a standard action by using this ability. The range of this ability is 10 ft. per HD, and the target must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha Modifier) or fall under the influence of the spores, and desire to move closer to the source of the scent-- you. If 1d8 per 2 HD rounds pass and they have not entered your space, this effect wears off. Otherwise, they can take no action other than to try to enter your space, for which you take no penalty. If they succeed in entering your space, they will drop everything in hand and stand dazed, even unresisting of the creepers attacks. A target effected by this ability might even attack companions who try to stop them from entering the square of the Yellow Musk Creeper. This is a mind-affecting compulsion.

At 8 HD this becomes a move action, at 16 HD it becomes a swift action.

Ability Score Bonuses: The Yellow Musk Creeper gains +1 Charisma at levels 1, 2, and 4. It also gains +1 Constitution at levels 1 and 3, for a total of +3 Cha and +2 Con.

Mind Eater(ex): At level 2, the Yellow Musk Creeper gains the ability to extend thousands of razor sharp tendrils which pierce into the skull of enemies and quickly suck out their grey matter. As a free action, a Yellow Musk Creeper may, once per round, deal 1d4 intelligence damage to any or all helpless or unresisting creatures inside its space. After it has started dealing intelligence damage to a creature, the tendrils have latched onto the edges of the creature's skull, and the only way to stop the intelligence drain from happening in each subsequent turn is to kill the Yellow Musk Creeper, kill the victim, or convince the Yellow Musk Creeper to let go. The intelligence damage increases by 1d4 for every 6 HD the Yellow Musk Creeper has. If the victim is reduced to 0 intelligence, they die.

Flowering: The Yellow Musk Creeper is a plant, and thus it is constantly growing, changing into something more powerful. At levels 2 and 4, and once more for every 4 HD they have beyond their first 4, they may select one of the abilities from the list below. Unless otherwise noted, an ability may be taken more than once.
Musk Bomb: Your Musk Puff explodes against its target, billowing out to fill the lungs of nearby foes. When you use it, it also effects foes within 5 ft of your initial target. If you take this ability more than once, the range of the puff increases by 5 ft. each time.

Spore Sniping: The range of your Musk Puff attack increases by 5 ft. per HD. You may take this multiple times, each time increasing the range by 5 ft. per HD.

Focused Blossom: You may make one additional Musk Puff attack with each use of that ability. None of your Musk Puff attacks in one round may target the same target. Each time you take this, you may Musk Puff one additional time.

Creeper: Your movement speed increases by 5 ft. and you gain +4 on Move Silently checks.

Plant Strength: All of your Musk Zombies gain +2 Strength, and +4 Constitution. They also gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 bonus to natural armor.

Halo of Tendrils: Your brain consuming tendrils gain the ability to make their intelligence drain attacks against anyone within 5 ft. of you. However, unlike those for people in your space, these drain attacks deal only 1d4 intelligence damage and do not permanently latch into the skull of the target. You may not take this multiple times.

Greenery Shield: Your regeneration is no longer overcome by either fire or acid, your choice. You may not take this multiple times.


Growth: At level 3, the Yellow Musk Creeper grows to Large size. It continues to grow as follows:
6 HD: Large size with Powerful Build
9 HD: Huge size
12 HD: Huge size with Powerful Build
15 HD: Gargantuan size
18 HD: Gargantuan size with Powerful Build
21 HD: Colossal size
24 HD: Colossal size with Powerful Build
27 HD: Colossal+ size
Each time it grows an actual size category, its speed increases by 5 feet.

Amber Life(su): The Yellow Musk Creeper is a thing of majesty-- it will continue to shred the minds of its foes until the end of time. Thus, at 3rd level, it becomes nigh impossible to kill. The Yellow Musk Creeper gains Regeneration equal to half its HD, which is overcome by fire and acid.

Yellow Musk Zombies(ex): From now on, when a creature is reduced to 0 intelligence by the Yellow Musk Creeper's Mind Eater ability, instead of dying, they become mindless slaves of the Creeper. This is an extraordinary effect and may not be removed by any means. The Creeper plants a seed inside the victim, who gains the Yellow Musk Zombie template. These Yellow Musk Zombies do not expire after two months. They follow the telepathic orders of the Yellow Musk Creeper unquestioningly, and any shred of the person they once used to be is now gone. A single Yellow Musk Creeper may control up to 4 HD of Yellow Musk Zombies for each of its HD.
Type: Changes to plant, gaining all benefits and penalties of the type.
Hit Dice: Current and future change to d8.
Armor Class: Natural Armor increases by +2
Special Qualities:
Creeper Loyalty(ex): Yellow Musk Zombies always act to protect and nurture the Yellow Musk Creeper that created them. They can range no farther than 100 feet from their progenitor for the first two months of their existence. Thereafter, they may wander freely, or the creeper can command them.
Deadened Mind(ex): A Yellow Musk Zombie recalls nothing of its previous life, and it exists only to serve its parent plant. A yellow musk Zombie loses all class abilities, skill ranks and feats. In addition, it cannot use magic devices but can wield weapons and armor. It also loses any innate spellcasting ability.
Plant Traits(ex): A Yellow Musk Zombie is immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorphing. It is not subject to critical hits or mind-affecting effects. The creature also has low-light vision.
Seeded(ex): If a Yellow Musk Zombie dies for any reason, the growing seed inside its head takes root and grows into a Yellow Musk Creeper within 1 hour. The Creeper is not under the control of the original Creeper.
Abilities: Same as the base creature, except the Yellow Musk Zombie has an Intelligence of 2, Dexterity changes to 10, and Wisdom changes to 8.

Curing a Yellow Musk Zombie: A Yellow Musk Zombie's patron plant must be killed before the zombie can be cured of its affliction. Thereafter, a cleric of at least 12th level must cast regenerate or heal upon the character before the implanted seed germinates.



Comments/Changelog:

Comments
From Fiend Folio
So, I think I've gotten better. I'm pretty proud of this class. The Yellow Musk Creeper is a bizarre plant that creeps along, drugging people and then eating their brains and turning them into zombies. But it's pretty freaking cool, in my opinion. Enjoy!

Changelog
12/8/2010: You now gain a speed increase when you grow.
Posted Yellow Musk Zombie copy.

Other than the small coments that i said,It's a well done class.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-10, 04:11 PM
I say leave the requirements off template classes, and put in a little sub-spoiler something like "We havn't put requirements, but use common sence - Your going to have to be pretty nasty to be an Unholy Scion, or a Horrid Monster"

Also, I wanna call dibs on the Varakhut. Pandoryrm is nearly finished, and I can't say no to statting up the Inevitable that goes around beating up God-Killers.

I'm also gonna nominate the Phenric Creature, Ankheg, and the Solamith. Well done to their creators, 'cause they're good classes.

Zemro
2010-12-10, 04:42 PM
First: Under Body of Thorns, it will be 'loses' not 'looses' unless you're going for a poetic image.

Second: Its enhancement bonus, not 'it's'.

Third: Under melee in your weapon of barbs, your possess is missing the last s.

Okay, minor editing things done.

Excellent and fixed, I'm glad you pointed those out.


1st: I would not care to play this class at first level. What does it get over a bard? Natural armor. That's not worth losing what a bard gets (cantrips, bardic knowledge, three bardic music effects). This level is worthless until you take more levels, and should probably get something else that works off the bat.

Ah wait, you can deal nonlethal damage freely. ... Yeah, that's not enough. Not killing people isn't all that hard.

Well, there are a couple other minor perks, you can choose to deal a different type, and make a whip do lethal damage, but I suppose you're right. It's a very utility level and maybe not best placed on a class's first level.

Aside from having them treat thorned weapons as masterwork until the magical enhancement kicks in, I can't really think of much to add.


2nd: You get DR, a pleasant boost to damage, and a dex boost. Okay, I can work with that. The ability to deal nonlethal more easily starts to pay off. Comparing it to sneak attack, it applies in more situations, though you get it a touch later than the rogue does.

I had considered moving it down a level (to 1st/3rd) but the 2nd level is quite lackluster with just DR so I'd just be faced with the same problem all over again.


3rd: A single ability? Hmm ... free action? Good... 2*HD? Good... wait, it only applies to arrows? What if I want to shoot thorny bolts or spiky sling bullets? Fort save, fine, sleep spell, very useful, buffed by nonlethal damage, cool, that ability grows in use. Worry: Another ability useless against constructs and undead. That's all for nothing.

Hmm, that does shoehorn thorns into just using bows a bit, maybe I'll go in and open that up a bit. It's true that it's not so good vs constructs or undead, but it's got some other abilities that are, and they'll have up to 16 levels from other classes to play around with.


4th: Before even looking at the class: Hurrah! My weapons can suddenly kick ass with changeable enhancements. I can put Construct Bane on it and make up for my earlier weakness against them. I get a bonus to Dex, which is nice of course ... and now let's look at my class features. Ooh. Score. Add my dex to damage, just as a straight bonus; suddenly those dex bonuses become increasingly useful. Strip away natural armor to empower nonlethal attacks: Somewhat weird to think about but neat in mechanics. Barbs to annoy and sleep-poison people: Also cool.

This capstone makes me happy.

I figure if they're 'softened' up without natural armour, the barbs and thorns on their weapon will have an easier time doing their job.


Advice: Find a way to make it more playable at first level; that's my main trouble with it.

Alright, I've made some changes and additions to the class, so tell me what you think of those. I'll take some time to think about other possible additions if people think it's necessary.

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 04:43 PM
I say leave the requirements off template classes, and put in a little sub-spoiler something like "We havn't put requirements, but use common sence - Your going to have to be pretty nasty to be an Unholy Scion, or a Horrid Monster"

Also, I wanna call dibs on the Varakhut. Pandoryrm is nearly finished, and I can't say no to statting up the Inevitable that goes around beating up God-Killers.

I'm also gonna nominate the Phenric Creature, Ankheg, and the Solamith. Well done to their creators, 'cause they're good classes.

Well, thank you. :smallsmile: But I actually have a question on my own class. As its size increases, should the size of its tunnels increase, and how? I am not entirely familiar with how long creatures work, and don't quite know if it should still be making 5' tunnels at Gargantuan.

Magicyop
2010-12-10, 04:53 PM
Since this is "Home-Brew" friendly... I have a few ideas to try out... Mixing elementals... Air+Water=Storm Cloud... Air+Fire=Heat Wave... Water+Earth=Mud or Ice (undecided, but leaning towards ice)... Earth+Fire=Lava... Any objections or requests to make one of my ideas... Or a vote for ice or mud... Or both?

I'm inclined to say that while I can't say you shouldn't, I wouldn't... I'm not saying they're bad idea, it could be kinda cool. But I think the intention when we mentioned homebrew monsters is turning homebrew monsters into classes, not starting from scratch. You're welcome to start from scratch, but when we say we would prefer monsters critiqued and well peached, that's what we mean. A monster class with no monster behind it has exactly zero peaches. But again, please, don't feel hindered, I'm just clarifying what the rule on the first post is intended for.


Other than the small coments that i said,It's a well done class.

Thank you! Okay, first of all, the charisma is because the yellow musk creeper lures people in with pretty flowers before it starts hitting them. It seemed to make sense, you know? But if you think it would be better as strength, I'll change it.

I'll add speech and fine manipulation. Speech is a little odd, since it's a plant, but without the ability to speak, it might be hard to participate in a party.

Thanks for the comments.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-10, 04:53 PM
With regards to the Ankheg, I personally would rule they make tunnels as wide and tall as their bodies. I'm not sure if there's a set tunnel size, though.

Kajhera
2010-12-10, 04:55 PM
With regards to the Ankheg, I personally would rule they make tunnels as wide and tall as their bodies. I'm not sure if there's a set tunnel size, though.

Well, as a large, long creature they get 5' tunnels. Maybe it's their reach? :smallconfused:

Mystic Muse
2010-12-10, 04:55 PM
No speech for the Yellow musk creeper. The Purple Wurm doesn't get it (Last I checked anyway) and neither should the creeper.

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-10, 05:03 PM
Well, as a large, long creature they get 5' tunnels. Maybe it's their reach? :smallconfused:

I have no idea. I think we need a second opinion on this. :smallconfused:

Tacitus
2010-12-10, 05:06 PM
I think Reach is about the way to do it, as from what I can recall most Long creatures (and now that I think about it, all creatures) are about as wide in terms of squares as their reach. I think. Don't quote me on that one though. XD

AugustNights
2010-12-10, 05:10 PM
I thought taking up 4 posts in this thread would be... inappropriate. The Half-golem. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9938620#post9938620)

It has about 68 material choices. And I'd be willing to add more, by request.

Tried to short-hand the format for Golemaic Weapon so it would fit in one post. It wouldn't. So I will reformat that, when I have more time.

Magicyop
2010-12-10, 05:17 PM
Okay, Yellow Musk Creeper can now not speak.

Chump: Holy...! That's awesome! That's one heck of a monster class. I don't have time to read through every option right now, but I will later. So many options!

monkman
2010-12-10, 05:36 PM
First thing:OMG!
Second

Magic Resistance: At third level the Successful Half-golem gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+HD+Constitution modifier, the Failed Half-golem gains Spell Resistance equal to 10+HD+Wisdom modifier. Spells that deal the elemental damage it has an affinity with bypass its Spell Resistance without the need to lower it.
I think that this could be a bit to powerfull,It might be better as only(10+Hd) but if you want to keep the stat,I would recommend that you put it at 10+1/2HD +Con(succes) or wis(Failed)

AugustNights
2010-12-10, 05:47 PM
First thing:OMG!
Second

I think that this could be a bit to powerfull,It might be better as only(10+Hd) but if you want to keep the stat,I would recommend that you put it at 10+1/2HD +Con(succes) or wis(Failed)

Uy, typo indeed. Thanks.

Tacitus
2010-12-10, 06:02 PM
I'm proofing it all at the moment. Up to Half Mud material.

Well, not all, as I'm bound to miss stuff.