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Brom
2010-12-07, 08:14 AM
Some notes on design elements to my fellow homebrewers and peers:

This is the Corpsechem Apothecary. Fluff and crunch aside, I wanted to share some things related to the PrC. Firstly, this is inspired from a multitude of sources: the terrifying and pragmatic Forsaken Plaguebringers in Northrend (World of Warcraft), the dreaded heretical work of Fabius Bile and the many other medically inclined entities of the grim future, like the Mad Doks and Dark Eldar Homoculus (Warhammer 41k), and the Monstrumologist from these very forums, written by none other than Vorpal Tribble. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174081)
I wanted something that drew off of what made these various characters and archtypes cool, while still being an original contribution. This brings me to goals, of which that was the first. The second is that I want something playable, and simple, overall. I want something that people can make a character sheet of, and then take to play in their games!
To this end, I need you: itís likely that all of you have a vastly better grasp on balance. I am aiming for tier 3-2, for those of you familiar with the tier system (brilliant gameologists website seems to be down, and they had the best tier system explanation I was aware of. I would appreciate it if someone posted a link or shared their insight on tier system for the benefit of readers trying to help me ^^).
Iíve been way too verbose, so thank you for your time, and I hope you find this engaging. Without further ado, the Corpsechem Apothecary!

Corpsechem Apothecary http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs31/i/2008/220/8/a/The_Alchemist_by_yuumei.jpg

ďFor a warrior, youíre a crybaby. Yes, itís grotesque, yes, this foul brew tastes bad and makes you hear voices. Do you want your dadís death at the hands of a Lich to be in vain? Then drink it. Itís good for you. Like milk.Ē Ė Keller Shellberg, Corpsechem Alchemist.

"To most, Alchemy gives more tricks for making short work of enemies. For a Corpsechem Apothecary, itís much more. You protest to harassers that you have principles. It might even be true! However, your techniques in alchemy are oft labeled arcane, for among other things, you draw from the dead what peasants and ignorants call unlife. Slipshod cries of mysticism aside, you're peerless in your manipulation of bodies, living and dead."


Becoming a Corpsechem Apothecary

The primary requirements of this class are skill based: Craft (Alchemy), Heal, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (The Planes), Craft (Poisonmaking). A high skills per level is required. That said, many classes can meet this: Egoist Psions, Bards with Skill Knowledge: Heal or Able Learner, Clerics, Druids with the Educated feat, Scouts, and Wizards have the ability within reach. Any with sufficient skill points and the ability to burn a few feats to gain class skills can quickly qualify, however, and the benefits of the Corpsechem Apothecary offer something for everyone.

Entry Requirements

Skills: Heal 4 ranks, Craft (Alchemy) 8 ranks, Knowledge (any two) 8 ranks.
Special: Must have used 100 gp in materials to craft poisons and/or alchemical goods, and must have poisoned someone.

Corpsechem Apothecary
D6 HD
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref |Will|Corpsechem Apothecary Class Features

1st|+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Toxicologist, Surgical Lecture, A Quas-Trained Semi-Professional

2nd|+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Real Alchemist, Bioweapon

3rd|+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Inoculate, Poison Immunity

4th|+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Unnatural Repair, Craft Paraphernalia

5th|+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Laboratory Worker, Posthumous Upgrade

6th|+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Culling Weakness, Brewing Perfection

7th|+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Biochemical Inhumanities, All but Labcoat

8th|+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|For Fun & Profit, Possibly Unethical

9th|+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Nurture All Life, Comes With The Job

10th|+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Servitor, In the Name of Science, Try Not To Think About It[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int Modifier/level) Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Science) (Cha), Profession (any) (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (N/A), Spot (Wis), Survival (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex)

Class Features

Advancing in Corpsechem Apothecary grants you access to your namesake ability, Corpsechem Science. This entails the chemical treatment of corpses and the distilling of useful biological components into usable items and substances. You also become a superior biological entity, and can cause what some call mutation in others, granting them this superiority. Further, you are skilled in a wide variety of disparate areas, which share one commonality: one way or another, they keep you from dying for your (often illegal) practices.

Toxicologist

As a first level Corpsechem Apothecary, you make your first breakthrough: synthesizing toxins taken off of dead creatures.

Provided you know of a creature's toxin, and how it delivers that toxin, you can take a sample from it. Knowing generally involves a very successful knowledge check (one that goes beyond identifying it and is sufficient to tell you all about it) or ten minutes spent studying it's anatomy, working with scalpels to part the flesh. After securing a sample, you can study the compound for eight hours. This study must be consecutive, during which time you experiment with it in various ways and take notes on it's structure, memorizing every facet of it.

From then on, you can replicate this toxin precisely, creating it with a Craft (Alchemy) or Craft (Poisonmaking). The Craft DC to make this is 15 + HD of the creature. It requires materials equal to 25 g x the HD of the creature, which provides one dose.

Surgical Lecture

Being the one who's educated in monsters and the exact natures of the enemies you often face, you have equipped yourself to relay this language precisely.

You can make a DC 15 + HD of monster in question Knowledge check to organize what you know about a creature in a form understandable to untrained minds. If you succeed, you can take two minutes to educate all allies within 30'. Allies must take a standard action every round absorbing what you say. At the end of this, they gain a bonus on attack rolls and damage equal to your Corpsechem Apothecary level when fighting the monster that was the subject of your lecture. Furthermore, all critical hits on the creature in question are automatically confirmed. The creature must be a specific species and subspecies. For example, you can make a check on Goblinoids: (Goblins), which, if successful, would allow your allies to gain bonuses against Goblins, but would not work on Hobgoblins.

This ability lasts a number of hours equal to your Corpsechem Apothecary level + your Intelligence modifier. Should you Lecture on a new type of monster before the bonuses for your first Lecture wear off, you lose the bonuses for your first Lecture and gain bonuses as normal for your second Lecture.

A Semi Trained Quasi Professional (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html)

There are things that some people leave to a measure of intuition. You seek to understand it fully at a conscious level: call it what you will, a lack of faith in your instincts or focused brilliance.

Add your Intelligence bonus to Heal and Survival.

Real Alchemist

Magic is overblown. You have the skills to pay the bills. Alchemical concoctions are more than just tanglefoot bags to you: embracing alchemy in all forms is what you do.

You gain Brew Potion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#brewPotion), as a feat. For the purposes of Brew Potion, you can supply any spell on any caster list, up to 3rd level. You must pay all costs in XP, materials, time, and gold associated with creating a potion, reduced by 25%. Should you already have Brew Potion, you still get the 25% reductions in material, time, and gold cost, but get to choose any feat you meet the prerequisites for instead.

Bioweapon

At this point in your travels, creatures are showing startling resilience to run of the mill poisons. Seeing this not as discouragement but as a challenge to overpower with the strength of your mind and insight, you adapt.

Add your Intelligence modifier and Corpsechem Apothecary level to all poison DC's if you have crafted the poison. Alternatively, using 50 gp in materials, you can modify an existing poison, adding your Intelligence modifier and Corpsechem Apothecary level to it's DC.

Inoculate

You're not fond of seeing your group disabled. They provide you with corpses for your study and crafting, so there's no sense in letting them become corpses themselves. It's pragmatism, you may tell them. You may be fond of them, but you try not to let that get in the way of the science.

Nevertheless, to ward your allies, you have perfected the art of inoculation. If you are confronted with an ability that would produce a negative/harmful condition, such as a Troglodyte's horrid stench (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm), or a Lycanthrope's disease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm#werebear), or even a mummy's mummy rot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mummy.htm), you can study the corpse of one of these creatures.

In a process that takes 1 minute/HD of the creature in question, the Corpsechem Apothecary can dissect the corpse and brew an elixir that uses elements from the corpse's body. This elixir is primarily a water based solution, and for 200 gold, the Corpsechem Apothecary can carry the materials for 100 HD worth of such study and concocting.

After the requisite period of study, the Apothecary has fashioned an elixir which, on consumption, wards the consumer from one of the harmful abilities possessed by the scavenged corpse. If the creature has multiple abilities, the Apothecary must choose one ability at the time of creation. The corpse can not be studied and used multiple times to protect from multiple abilities. However, if the negative condition the Inoculation protects against is suffered from a different creature - such as someone protected by Innoculation from a Basilisk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/basilisk.htm)'s Petrifying gaze who is targeted with a Medusa's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/medusa.htm) Petrifying Gaze - the Inoculation will protect the consumer in both instances.

Should an Inoculation against a condition be used after the condition has already been suffered, it will not undo the condition. For example, making an Inoculation against Mummy Rot and consuming it after Mummy Rot takes effect will not remove Mummy Rot.

This protection, in the first hour of it's duration, grants immunity to the condition it was made to defend against. In the second hour, protected characters gain a +15 to saves to resist the ability. This bonus diminishes by 5 every hour, becoming ineffectual after four hours.

Poison Immunity

Your toxins are often more potent than your body, and having no special training in poison use has resulted in consuming more antitoxin and cure poison potions than you would like. Your body has finally matched the attack, however, and you are now immune to poisons.

In addition, drops of your blood can be mixed into a cup of water to purify it, killing any poison in the fluid. When consumed, the drink cures the drinker of all poisons. Strangely, your blood matches the water upon mixing, becoming transparent and identical to the taste, smell, and observable traits of the water. You take 1 point of temporary constitution damage whenever you do this, which disappears after an hour.

Unnatural Repair


You've taken your study a step farther. You can rewire the body parts of creatures you encounter, causing them to function when removed from the body as they did in life.

In a process that takes 1 hour per HD of the creature in question, you expend 500xHD of creature in question gold in material costs. In return, you may take the body part of a creature and wire nerve endings to it, restoring the flesh.

This effectively restores functionality to the creature. A dragon's head will breath fire as it did in life, with the same DC, wait time between uses, damage, and range. It is effectively identical to how it was in life. "Triggering" a creature's body part like this is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

You cannot perform this on a creature who's HD is greater than 1/2 your HD + your Intelligence modifier + your Corpsechem Apothecary level.

Creatures who derived an ability from something strictly more than a body part (such as an oozes acid slime, an ogre mage's spell like abilities, or an incorpreal undead's anything) cannot be used this way.

Furthermore, the ability must be offensive in nature - a gaze attack, a breath weapon, etc. Finally, it must also be ranged.

Craft Paraphernalia

Many potent poisons require consumption to enter the bloodstream. Ever the adapter, you've decided you're rather tired of indirect methods of applying toxins. You can put ranks into Craft (Paraphernalia) as a skill.

Craft (Paraphernalia) allows the creation of hypodermic needles, respiratory masks that can be placed over someone's face, forcing them to inhale gas stored in canisters, and squeeze-canisters that ointments can be squeezed out of, similar to toothpaste (You may have even made some toothpaste for your enjoyment.)

Each of these items requires 25gp in materials, 2 hours, and a DC 25 craft check.

Laboratory Worker

Time is money, that's a lie. Money is money. Still, time is pretty important on your list of things, too.

You craft all items 50% faster. This stacks with the crafting speed bonus from Real Alchemist, as well as Exceptional Artisan (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Exceptional_Artisan), should you have that feat.

Further, you can now brew potions which contain offensive spells, which can be thrown as ranged weapons with an increment of 30', releasing the spell (which works as written in it's spell description). However, your spell uses your level as the caster level and your Int as the casting modifier, should the spell allow a save.

Finally, you can lead as many as four others as laboratory assistants. They craft exactly the same item you are crafting, watching you for instruction. They use your Craft skill result to determine success. Potions can be brewed in this manner.

Posthumous Upgrade


You miss the days where a Troglodyte's scent glands could bring a room full of enemies to the floor. Some creature's are just biologically limited in the scope of their influence. Do they have to be? Not if it makes your job harder.

In a process that requires one hour and an amount of materials equal to 100 gp/HD of the creature in question, you can biochemically grant a posthumous evolutionary upgrade to a creature who's body part you procured and rewired as per Unnatural Repair. The save DC for the body part is increased by an amount equal to your Corpsechem Apothecary level + 1/2 your Intelligence modifier (rounded down.)

For example, Keller has a Troglodyte scent gland, which he can trigger to emit it's musk. He is a 5th level Gray Elf Egoist Psion 5/Corpsechem Apothecary 5, with an Intelligence of 26, or a +8 modifier. He increases the save DC against the Troglodyte musk gland from DC 13 (original) to 26 (13 + Apothecary level 5 + 1/2 +8 Int modifier).

Culling Weakness

You realize that through a perverse combination of self-discipline, biochemical treatments, potion use, self-directed physical therapy, and practice, you could make yourself a more perfect being, in particular, a more efficient one.

You are omniurnal: you don't sleep. Rest is necessary if you are a spellcaster.

You no longer accrue the penalties of aging, although you accrue the bonuses, and still expire when your time comes.

You no longer need to eat or drink, although you may choose to do so.

You perfect your metabolism in absence of the offbalancing consumption of food. Any day where you do not eat food, the duration of potions you consume is doubled, and any variable numeric effects are increased 50%.

Brewing Perfection

Alchemical items that you craft possess enormous power, made by your perfect hands. The duration of any alchemical item's effect is doubled, the damage is doubled, and the save DC is increased by your Corpsechem Apothecary level. Tanglefoot bags and alchemist's fire are frightening weapons in your hands.

Biological Inhumanity

You've come to grips with the fact that your body sucks. Many modifying sessions spent on the body parts of useful supernatural creatures has made you question how well evolved your OWN body is. You come to realize it isn't. There's so much that can be done. You gain the Biotechnological Interbreeding* Feat.

* (Grafts are shown under Biological Inhumanities, two posts down)

All But a Labcoat

You've been meaning to get a labcoat custom tailored for some time.

After all, your understanding of alchemy isn't art. It's science. You understand alchemy, potions, and poisons, definitively. As a matter of fact. No, 'art' or imagination required.

You can Identify any potion, as a standard action. Similarly, you can take a standard action to gain exact understanding of any living item, poison, alchemical item, or device meant for the administering of any of the above.

You no longer need to make Knowledge checks to learn about diseases and poisons a species possesses.

Finally, as an action requiring a minute of effort on your part, you can cause a potion to function as another potion as of the same level, or as any poison you know how to concoct.

For Fun And Profit

It occurred to you to further examine the workings of magic upon the mind, and to study minds under heavy enchantment. The methods you used are not divulged around well-bred lady folk, but you have learned that it's hard to be impacted by magic when you're stoned.

Using materials costing 100 gp/level of spell you want to be able to resist, you brew a concoction that buries your mind with lucidity, absent mindedness, hallucinations, and unnatural sounds and colors. This twists your mind beyond magic, rendering you immune to mind affecting spells of up to the level you brewed for. This effect lasts for one week after consumption.

Possibly Unethical

You realized that your work with poisons is integral to your work, but for some reason, people frown on this. It occurred to you after some thought that it's not terribly hard to overcome some of the obstacles posed by others.

Your poisons are no longer detectable by divination, scent, or any other means normally used to detect poison, up until they reach someone's bloodstream.

Nurture All Life

If you've come this far, you are relentless in pursuit of understanding. You turn your attention to the most distasteful, abhorrent form of life of all: disease.

As an action requiring a DC 25 (+ save DC of the disease) Heal check, you can study a disease and, using up to ten small or medium bodies of any animal or humanoid, develop disease strains and offshoots, as the following:

- Inoculating strain: by breeding the weaker, less successful strains of the disease and encouraging elements that produce fever, you can create a disease that causes a relatively brief bout of sickness and inoculates individuals to the original disease, preventing any subjected to the inoculating strain from carrying or catching the disease.

- Weaponized Strain: You breed the most resilient, lethal strains of a disease. The variable damage of the disease is maximized and empowered, as if by Maximize and Empower spell. The save DC is increased by your Corpsechem Apothecary level + 1/2 your Intelligence.

- Altered Strain: You can cause the disease to inflict a different type of ability damage. All other aspects remain the same.

- Alternate Species Strain: You can cause a strain that would normally only affect humanoids to affect a type of animal or plant. Doing this requires 10 of the animal or plant to culture the disease in. Plants species designated are simply killed off by this. Alternatively, you can cause the disease to be spread in water and affect the soil it waters, rendering the soil infertile and useless.

Finally, you learn how to brace a hypodermic shaft onto any weapon capable of piercing damage. This shaft can be filled with disease spores.

Comes With the Job
Your long work with toxins, drugs, diseases, alchemical substances, potions, biological weaponry, and all the other crap your mother said you were never to put in your body, has left you rather tired of constantly taking antitoxins, antidotes, cleansing regimes, and physical therapy.

You're now immune to anything that allows a Fortitude save.

Servitor

You have mastered the body to the extent that you can enslave someone's mind to their body.

As a procedure that can be undertaken on humanoids or animals with eight or fewer HD, you can remove a helpless or willing creature's brain and replace it with biological wiring and chemical receptors. This costs 500 gp for each HD of the creature.

You can then insert a new organ of your own design in through your ear, allowing it to rest by your brain. This is a pheromone communicator, and allows you to control your lobotomized servitors as if they were under Dominate Person. They must still hear you speak in order to obey you. Servitors take six points of damage to Wisdom, Charisma, and Intelligence, although they cannot drop below 3 points in any of these stats. This organ costs 1000 gp per highest creature HD you control.

You can control a number of HD equal to your own HD + Intelligence modifier in this fashion. Servitors seem odd, pale, and twitchy when viewed.

In the Name of Science

Your Biological Inhumanity grafts can be inflicted upon others who are willing or helpless. In addition, you can surgically graft a creature's organ/body part onto and/or into a willing ally. This grants the use of an ability pertaining to the body part:

You could, for instance, graft a Troglodyte musk gland, a Half-Dragon's fire sacs, or a beholder's eye. This inflicts six points of Constitution damage on the recipient of the graft. The graft lasts a number of hours equal to your Intelligence modifier + the creature's Constitution modifier. This can be done to yourself, with the aid of four humanoid servitors.

Try Not To Think About It

You have long since dealt with people being reluctant to drink water that diseased corpses were found in, no matter how many times you assure them your masterful alchemy has purified it. People won't let you live it down the time you promised that your elixir would make sleeping easier, and they had seizures for a month. And by Boccob, is it too much to ask that people stop talking about how the Druid's Wolf animal companion has hooves after it got into your backpack?

I mean, it should have known better.

Your illustrious reputation and undeniable results compels your skeptics to put a little more faith in you, and by extension any alchemical infusions that may use your blood as a key component. You have a +10 to Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy checks made to convince people to allow you to perform a surgery or telling them to drink a concoction. Furthermore, you are immune to Discern Lies and Zone of Truth whenever you are talking about a concoction, surgery, or creation of yours. Finally, you are immune to any mundane or magical compulsion or orders telling you to share information about surgeries, potions, or other concoctions you make. If you do share information, you may lie about it freely: you are immune to Sense Motive attempts to discern the truthfulness of statements dealing with these topics.

Please, comment on any and every aspect you have a thought about when you read this.

Brom
2010-12-07, 08:15 AM
FLUFF

Playing a Corpsechem Apothecary

You are a scientist first, and an adventurer second. Aside from deepseated prior motivations, you can be difficult to interest if it doesn't answer a mystery. You tend to put more faith in poisons and alchemical creations than you do magic, mostly because you understand it better.

Your philosophy as an adventurer is most often, ''waste not, want not.'' Seeing a poison or useful body part go to waste is abhorrent to you. Just because it's part of the creature's body doesn't mean it's not treasure! You seek to take everything that isn't nailed down and use it somehow, and this often gives you a near obscene variety of tricks and tools.

You can also rely on your intellectual and logical skills. You're fond of thinking of every problem as medicine, and are fond of phrases such as, ''It can't outdo us if it's hamstrung'' or, ''Cut the head and the body falls'' or, ''Let it dehydrate and hunger, and then come back to it." You rely heavily on your Knowledge skills for the identification of creatures, as well as ways to fight them.

Combat

You're like an alchemy and poison using Swiss army knife. With enough time, preparation, and financial assistance, you can be prepared in all the right ways. Your poisons are invariably lethal; your potions can be whatever they need to be to not die from the monster of the week; your alchemical tools and scavenged body-wands are your sword and spell.

Never forget, however, that you work best as part of a party. In fact, in a roundabout fashion, you're a fairly equal replacement for the party Bard or Artificer. Instead of singing courage into your allies, you equip them with poisoned blades. Instead of having a varied spell list, you have a confounding set of potions for any task. Your Knowledge is often varied enough to match Bardic lore, and Charisma skills are class skills for you. Make full use of your abilities to help your party: both because that's what you should do when within a party, and because it can overcome the stigma more traditional adventurers will have of you. You don't need to tell them everything, either. They don't need to know, for instance, that the elixir that's going to cure the Rogue is made from your own blood.

Try to Inoculate your party whenever possible, and, time permitting, you should always attempt a Surgical Lecture. These two things alone will do wonders for your group. Stay busy, and work hard to turn them onto science.

Advancement

You could have been any number of things before becoming a Corpsechem Apothecary. You shouldn't forget your roots. If you were a Rogue, your stealth skills have probably atrophied, but they may still be sufficient to slip a toxin into a water supply or to sneak behind a monster, especially if augmented by magic items. If you were a Bard, use the social skills of your prior trade to deflect antagonism.

You likely had a mind that always asked: why? The one that drove your teachers crazy and caused you to have agitated break downs when people explained it was because a deity made it that way. Poisons and alchemy, you quickly realized, could be solved like problems, in a rational, coherent, and explainable fashion, and this appealed to your mind a great deal.

Focus on keeping your Craft (Alchemy) and Craft (Poisonmaking) skills as high as possible. A very close second should be your Knowledge skills. There are a handful of feats which make you more proficient with your toxins. Your toxins develop a very high DC quite early, and you are likely to be frail in fortitude, so a feat like Master of Poisons (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Master_Of_Poisons) may be very helpful early in your career, before you develop immunity. Poison Expert (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Poison_Expert) is another feat that can get you just a bit further with your lethal brews.

You have a wide variety of class skills and not nearly enough points for all of them. Many Corpsechem Apothecaries keep a small arsenal of skill boosting items, and have 2-3 ranks in a wide variety of skills. Use Rope can oft be used to tie down unwilling recipients of poisons or surgeries, but isn't worth neglecting knowledge for. It should also be said that you NEED a handy Haversack. And possibly a portable hole. A few bags of holding are a good idea. In the latter two cases, make sure you label everything thoroughly: until higher level, it could get easy to waste tons of time identifying what's in every bottle, and in event that you're incapacitated and need a healing potion from your bag, your companions won't be able to tell poison from cures.

Resources

While there is no organization for Corpsechem Apothecaries, you may have fortune finding a number of fellows who practice your art. They may be willing to trade information on how to synthesize poisons you've encountered, as well as body parts in a state of Unnatural Repair. There is no code of honor or conduct, however, so you deal with these peers as individuals, with all the risk that contains.

If you can override the stigma associated with you and prove how useful you are, you can often find employ under a noble, or perhaps even under the king. Your morbid title and preoccupation with mutilating bodies for their supernatural organs aside, you are actually rather good at concocting cures. At higher levels, you can even wipe out plague strains with careful research.

If you impress the utility of your mind and science on others, you may find yourself given access to a certain amount of funding and supplies for your research and work. As such, no organization is necessarily going to support you off the bat.

Corpsechem Apothecaries in the World
"I was hesitant to include Keller - his preoccupation with performing surgery on monsters we kill is unnerving. After he used that weird drink to make us all immune to Mummy Rot, though, he's earned his place." - Hellena Mor, Wizard and sometimes ally of Corpsechem Apothecaries.

As NPC's, Corpsechem Apothecaries can prove diabolical foes. Woe betide the adventuring party who finds a Goblin tribe they are tasked with fighting has now armed themselves with lethal poisons. Even without ever seeing the Apothecary, the Apothecary may be a significant antagonist, it's allies armed in unusual and frightening ways. In this way, the Apothecary can be a excellent villain, often working an even greater villain, or being the prime villain himself while attempting to grow in power until he can master disease and unleash plagues upon the world.

As a neutral or helpful NPC, the Corpsechem Apothecary is often looking for the body parts of monsters and doesn't always have the skills or resources to deal with this monster himself. They are always on the look out for samples of rare creatures, plants, and even diseased tissues, and may or may not choose to accompany the party in these ventures, leading them on exotic and unusual quests that could provide a break from the standard dungeon crawl, particularly if it calls for seizing specimens alive. As NPC's, they are often willing to advertise their services and sell potent toxins, alchemical items, and a gamut of potions to the PC's.

As a player, a Corpsechem Apothecary steps in admirably for a Bard while providing a flavorful and unique set of advantages that are different from a Bard. Groups with a Corpsechem Apothecary will always be better informed on the true nature of what they face, and the immense knowledge the Apothecary possesses can lead players to the heart of issues they otherwise wouldn't notice.

Organization

Although there is no organization for Corpsechem Apothecaries, their rare and unusual skills have a place inside most organizations. Mage guilds favor them for their ability to brew a wide variety of potions, including divine, with which to supply their membership. Thieves guilds will pay handsomely for the poisons a Corpsechem Apothecary can make - even ones that are not fond of killing appreciate the highly effective versions of Drow Sleep Poison that can be crafted. The city guard sees Corpsechem Apothecaries as useful for protecting them against unusual diseases that they might be exposed to in dealing with an issue. The local governor or head of state in a location might desire a Corpsechem Apothecary for advice on how to handle a disease outbreak. No dedicated organization exists, but an Apothecary can obtain support by meshing themselves into existing organizations. This requires effort on their part and often requires dedicating ones self to the organization for a solid amount of time, however, so many Apothecaries work freelance.

NPC Reactions

The Corpsechem Apothecary is poorly understood. Their infamous use of poisons, however, mars their reputation, as does their self-mutations and biotech surgeries. Most commoners who learn of an Apothecary will have an initial attitude of unfriendly.

However, Apothecaries can quickly reverse this by lending their expertise, which is often in subjects people have no idea how to deal with.

Assassins, ninjas, and other similarly shadowy individuals will often have the starting attitude of friendly or helpful, desiring to befriend the Apothecary for some of those wonderful toxins.

"Killing is killing, and believe it or not, Purple Worm Poison isn't terribly painful. Who cares if I use poison? Why stick your ethics into the killing, Miss Smitealot?" - Corpsechem Apothecary Keller to Paladin Alhandra.

Corpsechem Apothecaries in the Game

The Corpsechem Apothecary is a unique and interesting class by virtue of allowing a character to accomplish unusual things in the course of normal adventures. Players who wish to be a mundane scientist that puts their mind to extraordinary things may like the flavor of this class: it's also a natural extension for anyone who wants some serious bang out of the Craft (Poisonmaking) and/or (Alchemy) buck.

Further, the archtype of the crazy doctor who tampers with flesh and creates odd but effective balms is rife with fantasy - though few means exist to pursue it, short of this class.

Characters can participate in this class without slowing down their groups overmuch, and the time it takes to exploit the abilities usually prove well worth the wait.

Brom
2010-12-07, 08:20 AM
Biological Inhumanities

In the grand scheme of things, it occurs to you that humans have the short end of the evolutionary stick. I mean, what gives? Mind Flayers. Beholders. Drow. Even the humble Orc could be seen as a superior biological entity. This brings you to a fateful conclusion: It's good to be inhuman.

And with that, the number of ways you can rip out your feeble biological circuitry and replace it with better wetware takes off.

You can apply a number of Biological Grafts equal to your Constitution modifier, plus 1/2 your Corpsechem Apothecary level.

At Corpsechem Apothecary level 10, you can apply these grafts to others. The limit on grafts applied is their Constitution modifier. Each time you apply a graft, the graft recipient's maximum hit point total is lowered by 5 points.

Each time you make a graft, you consume parts from a humanoid of your race. The humanoid can only be used once per graft. The materials and processes related to this require 1d4 hours and an amount of gold equal to 750 x your HD.

Removing a graft is an hour long surgical process. It requires a DC 25 Heal check. One removed, a Graft can simply be stored, and even reapplied later.


Biological Grafts

Sensory Grafts


Augmented Vision


Most humanoids are thoroughly sight based creatures. It occurs to you that if you're going to rely on your sight, your sight might as well be perfect. With that, you can begin the first of your visual acuity modifications.

Expending resources taken from the corpse of a creature with Low-Light Vision, probably some Elf, you graft Augmented Vision onto yourself. You gain Low-Light vision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#lowLightVision), a +2 bonus to all Spot and Search checks, and the ability to Detect Secret Doors. If you are an Elf, you double your low-light vision range and automatically detect any secret doors you pass. Your racial bonuses to Spot and Search double - you're basically Elf 2.0

Night Haunter


Requires Low-Light Vision.

Having recently taken out your need to sleep, you realize that you're not necessarily able to see in the dark. Lame. How can you spend the night hours in a productive fashion if you can't see your work?

You take further from a suitable corpse. Unlike with most grafts, the corpse must be of a humanoid with Darkvision. You gain Darkvision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#darkvision) from this process (with the rest of the process working as normal). Darkvision gained in this fashion is rather superior: it functions out to 120 feet and pierces magical darkness.

Predatory Vision


Requires Low-Light Vision and Darkvision.

Your vision is meant for people who hunt the things that bump in the night and fill others with fright. You've seen it as worth while to make your eyesight truly perfect.

You gain See Invisibility as the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm). This effect cannot be suppressed, and isn't magical so much as an incredible act of physical modification. Further, your eyesight gives you a chance to disbelieve any illusion (Glamer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#glamer) or Figment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#figment)). You do not need to interact with the illusion to gain this attempt at disbelief. You roll against the will save of the illusion, as normal.

Gnomish Nose

Rumor has it that the Gnomes are effective Alchemists in part due to their noses. Research having confirmed this, you seek to equip yourself with a nose even a gnome would be jealous of.

Using a corpse from a creature with Scent and a corpse from a Gnome, you grant yourself nasal augmentations. You gain Scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent) as a special ability. If you take the feat Track (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#track), you can Track by Scent. Furthermore, you gain a +2 to Craft (Alchemy) as if you were a Gnome. If you are actually a Gnome, this bonus somehow stacks.

Hounding For Profit

Requires Gnomish Nose.

You decide to spend additional grafting measures on yourself to improve the utility of your nose. You can now Track using Scent, as if you had taken the Track feat, even if you have not taken the Track feat.

In addition, you can smell magic items and gold. Magic items can be smelled from 50 feet away, as can gold. You are not able to smell any other currencies with this.

Mostly Figurative Third Eye

You have a fascination with how magic allows minds to touch and be influenced by one another. You have studied this and believe you can surgically include this capability in an existing mind. Using the corpse of a creature that has telepathy, you give yourself a mostly figurative third eye - however, an orblike bulge is observable on your forehead, looking like an odd lump.

You gain telepathy out a number of feet equal to your constitution modifier * 5. This can be used to speak with any creature that speaks a language, regardless of if you speak that language.

Extra Parts

What Really Gives you Wings

Turns out, Redbull won't give you wings.

But biochemical removal, treatment, and ensuing reattachment of a winged creature's flight apparatus totally will.

Using the corpse of a winged humanoid or creature of your size, you painstakingly remove, cure, and add wings to yourself. Once this is accomplished, you gain the ability of Flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly), identical in maneuverability, speed, and limitations to the creature you took the wings from.

For example, Apothecary Renault wishes to graft Wings onto herself. Were she to take them from an Erinyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#erinyes), she would have a flight speed of 50 feet with good maneuverability. Were she to take them from an Avoral (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/avoral.htm), however, she would have Flight speed 90 feet, with good maneuverability. Note that the wings can only be used for flight: even wings stripped from a creature such as an Avoral cannot be used to attack a creature.

Stinger

You and your toxins are inseparable. They're your friends. They never give you crap for that time you made the Duke you took a quest from have a heart attack. It was his fault for not doing enough cardio, after all.

At a logical level, you know you and your toxins aren't inseparable. You could be physically separated from them. But not if you had a stinger! To this end, you scavenge the corpse of a Large Monstrous Scorpion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousScorpion.htm), grafting it onto yourself. The stinger has a reach of 5 feet, and does ability damage equal to 1d6 * 1/2 your Con modifier. The type of ability damage is chosen by you at the time of stinging. The Fortitude save DC is 10+ 1/2 your level (rounded down) + your Constitution modifier. For example, Apothecary Renault, a Thug Fighter 5/Corpsechem Apothecary 7 has a Constitution modifier of 6, so the poison has a DC of 22 (10 + 6 + 6.)

Tentacle Crafting

You think Octopi have the right idea. They can like, kill sharks and open jars and stuff. I mean, you can do that too, but there has to be some merit in multiple appendages, right?

To this end, you surgically graft a tentacle onto yourself. The tentacle must be taken from a creature, but after treatment, the result is the same: a black, rubbery ten foot long tentacle. It is capable of functioning in every way like an arm. You can choose to have an octopus-like suction cup on the end of this, which gives a +8 vs disarm attempts on any item held in the tentacle, and ensures that it will not be dropped. Releasing something held by suction is a move action.

This tentacle typically protrudes from the left or right shoulder blade, coming out of the back of the creature. It can be retracted and hidden from sight as a standard action, and unsheathed as a free action. There will be a noticeable bulge to any looking at your bare back, but it is otherwise concealed by simple loose clothing. You can take this Graft multiple times. After taking two, the next two appear out of your hips on your back. You can take more, but doing so causes you to lose your ability to retract more than four at a time, thus meaning they cannot be concealed under your lab coat.


Face Tentacle

If octopi have the right idea, than might smarter tentacled creatures also have the right idea? It occurs to you that mind flayers are seriously badass organisms. It's not fair for them to have all the face-tentacle glory, so you make yourself some face tentacles.

Using the corpse of a Mind Flayer, you surgically graft a set of mind flayer tentacles onto yourself. You get four tentacles from a healthy, intact mind flayer corpse. However, to get it this intact, the Mind Flayer must typically undergo surgery while helpless or unconscious, having not taken any slashing attacks that could damage it's tentacles or whole-body damage.

Once the surgery is complete, the recipient has four face tentacles. These tentacles can be retracted into cavities in the graftee's skull. He can make attempts to eat someone's brain as if he were a Mind Flayer (Page 188, Monster Manual - oddly, SRD has no listing for Mind Flayer! Either as Illithid or Mind Flayer! What gives? Anyone I can contact about the lack of this iconic monster as an entry?).

Brom
2010-12-07, 08:21 AM
I want to have a nice little list of feats this class can take related to use of medical/anatomical knowledge and crafting, which I'll put in this post.

Brom
2010-12-07, 07:24 PM
If I could pay readers for written responses, I would. I don't care if you've read this whole thing all the way through. I've put about seven hours into this, an I imagine it would take 30-90 minutes to read through all of it, top to bottom. Just comments, on anything >_> Kind of desperate to see someone acknowledge this exists and provide any kind of feedback on it.

radmelon
2010-12-07, 07:32 PM
Looks quite nice, amd has the same "The ends justify the means" feel as the monstrumologist. I like it.

Brom
2010-12-07, 07:38 PM
Looks quite nice, amd has the same "The ends justify the means" feel as the monstrumologist. I like it.

Okay - glad you like it! Thank you very much for posting - would you mind answering some questions on what you read?

Any changes or updates that you think should be written in? (I'm aware of at least one: I need to go through and label various things as supernatural and extraordinary abilities.)

Would you allow this in one of your games or play it yourself? Are there any abilities which seem unclear, impractical, or counter to the flavor (or all three)?

Are there any questions you have about the implementation of the class, or how things are fluff wise?

TheGeckoKing
2010-12-07, 07:44 PM
Yes, this class exists, and yes, it is awesome. I'll give a more...... comprehensive review later, but you need to get brewing them Inhumanities!
Btw......no Graft Flesh as a bonus feat? I know you don't really need it, but still. It wouldn't hurt to add it on.

I can so see a twisted Factotum taking this class, or I could find a Doctor Base Class homebrewed up, or something. It's just cool!

Brom
2010-12-07, 07:56 PM
Yes, this class exists, and yes, it is awesome. I'll give a more...... comprehensive review later, but you need to get brewing them Inhumanities!
Btw......no Graft Flesh as a bonus feat? I know you don't really need it, but still. It wouldn't hurt to add it on.

I can so see a twisted Factotum taking this class, or I could find a Doctor Base Class homebrewed up, or something. It's just cool!

Woot!

As long as someone likes it somewhere, lol. I have a few inhumanities up now, do take a look when you've got a second =) Thanks for what you've submitted so far.

*.*.*.*
2010-12-07, 08:32 PM
This class is great, but I do have one question: Does it advance spell casting?

Brom
2010-12-07, 08:40 PM
This class is great, but I do have one question: Does it advance spell casting?

No, you lose casting in doing this. Spellcasting is a pain to balance around, but as long as you cut spellcasting, you can kind of go crazy on the number of special abilities your class has.

And I sort of did go crazy.

radmelon
2010-12-07, 09:15 PM
If I join a game, I just may play one of these. I don't DM much, but I try to let most homebrew in.

gkathellar
2010-12-07, 09:24 PM
This is awesome.

I desperately want you to make this into a base class so that I can play an evil doctor from 1 to 20.

Jarrick
2010-12-07, 09:27 PM
This is awesome.

I desperately want you to make this into a base class so that I can play an evil doctor from 1 to 20.

I second the motion! I look forward to the results. :smallamused:

Edit: and as long as we're dealing with alchemy and dissection, throw in some features dealing with the undead and building constructs to complete the mad scientist feel. I'm thinking a minor spell progression. Grafting would be cool too. :smallbiggrin:

Brom
2010-12-07, 09:41 PM
...

Think it should be a base class? Lol

Jarrick
2010-12-07, 09:52 PM
...

Think it should be a base class? Lol

Definately!

I might tackle the idea myself at a future date, but dont let that stop you. I'm busy with other projects for the foreseeable future...

Brom
2010-12-07, 09:57 PM
*Grumbles slightly at the thought of reallocating all the abilities across various levels and thinking of more to fill it, effectively doubling the size of the project with 10 hours of work in it.*

...I'd do it anyways because I love you guys and would love to create something people want to play, whatever version people want to play it in.

Worse comes to worse, I can finish this and then expand it into a base class, and then have both versions for compare and contrast.

*.*.*.*
2010-12-07, 09:58 PM
...

Think it should be a base class? Lol

Yes! I'd happily play one next time my DM allows homebrew, just gotta make sure it would have staying power

Benly
2010-12-07, 11:01 PM
The 8-ranks requirement seems to indicate a level 6 intended entry, but out of the PHB only clerics can qualify without wrangling some way to pick up alternate class skills (and I don't see a lot of clerics taking non-casting PrCs). I would strongly recommend cutting the Heal requirement to 4 ranks so it can be picked up crossclass. Also, why is the K(Planes) requirement there at all? Why is Craft (poisonmaking) not on the requirements list when it's required to use class abilities? It's going to be a huge sink of feats and skills to qualify in a timely manner for most of the classes that could benefit from this PrC.

I'm really puzzled by the Knowledge (Planes) requirement, and to a lesser extent by Knowledge (Arcana). Due to the way knowledges relate to creatures in D&D, these aren't any more immediately relevant to the class's abilities and activities than Nature, Local, Religion, and Dungeoneering. (Beholder eye stalks? Dungeoneering. Mummy rot antidote? Religion. Troglodyte stench glands? Local, bafflingly.)

Basically, what it comes down to is that an 8 rank requirement usually conveys a class to be entered at level 6, but this PrC doesn't seem suited to any of the classes that could enter it at the earliest point. This seems like a PrC that should be best suited to rogue or bard entry, with options for rangers and scouts, and... well, it's not.

Brom
2010-12-07, 11:08 PM
The 8-ranks requirement seems to indicate a level 6 intended entry, but out of the PHB only clerics can qualify without wrangling some way to pick up alternate class skills (and I don't see a lot of clerics taking non-casting PrCs). I would strongly recommend cutting the Heal requirement to 4 ranks so it can be picked up crossclass. Also, why is the K(Planes) requirement there at all? Why is Craft (poisonmaking) not on the requirements list when it's required to use class abilities? It's going to be a huge sink of feats and skills to qualify in a timely manner for most of the classes that could benefit from this PrC.

I'm really puzzled by the Knowledge (Planes) requirement, and to a lesser extent by Knowledge (Arcana). Due to the way knowledges relate to creatures in D&D, these aren't any more immediately relevant to the class's abilities and activities than Nature, Local, Religion, and Dungeoneering. (Beholder eye stalks? Dungeoneering. Mummy rot antidote? Religion. Troglodyte stench glands? Local, bafflingly.)

Basically, what it comes down to is that an 8 rank requirement usually conveys a class to be entered at level 6, but this PrC doesn't seem suited to any of the classes that could enter it at the earliest point. This seems like a PrC that should be best suited to rogue or bard entry, with options for rangers and scouts, and... well, it's not.

This is the kind of critique I'm looking for.

I chose Arcana because I wanted it to be approachable by casters and partial casters. Most of those have arcana. You're right, it's no more relevant to the abilities than any of the other knowledges you listed, arcana and the planes are simply more common. Although you're right in that scouts and rangers can't meet it.

Would a more elegant way to do this be, ''Knowledge, any 2, 8 ranks?" Or even any 1?

Craft (Poisonmaking) is not on the list because Craft (Alchemy) can literally be used in stead of Poisonmaking (albeit at a -4 penalty) and that I was worried people would look at it as a waste of skill points already with the Heal requirement.

Yea, I'm going to edit down the heal requirement to four ranks. Do that now, in fact.

Benly
2010-12-07, 11:36 PM
Knowledge (any two) 8 ranks and Heal 4 ranks opens the field considerably. Rogues still don't qualify, but that's more a strange oversight in the rogue's skill list than anything else. Rangers, scouts and bards do, so at least there are intuitive entry paths for the PrC.

I actually did not recall that bit with Craft (alchemy) and Craft (poisonmaking) being cross-usable. If you want to keep players from feeling like they have to double up, you might give an early class ability removing the penalty for using C(Alchemy) to make poison.

Brom
2010-12-07, 11:57 PM
I feel like it's already worth the investment in Alchemy without removing the penalty. True puritans will burn skill points to circumvent the penalty, but I wanted the choice in ''how hard core you were about poison'' to be there.

Incidentally, if this became a base class, what do you think that could look like?

Benly
2010-12-08, 12:08 AM
I feel like it's already worth the investment in Alchemy without removing the penalty. True puritans will burn skill points to circumvent the penalty, but I wanted the choice in ''how hard core you were about poison'' to be there.

Actually, now that I look over the class again in detail, I realize that the Toxicologist class feature as written lets you use a straight, unpenalized Alchemy check to recreate creature poisons. So you won't be making blue whinnis or black lotus extract or drow sleep poison or whatnot, but even a non-Poisonmaking-having corpsechem will be able to assemble a pretty solid arsenal of poisons.

Something that came to mind during that same review: All But A Labcoat currently lets you turn a level 0 potion (9 GP and 1 XP with class discounts - technically, .75 XP, but who's counting) into any poison you know at no extra cost in one minute. This is a pretty decent discount goldwise.

Brom
2010-12-08, 12:34 AM
You catch details and arrive at the implications much better than I do. Nice finds. I didn't think of making 0th level potions.

Benly
2010-12-08, 12:55 AM
Hm, a question about Inoculate. Does it only protect you against the condition as inflicted by that creature, or does it protect you against the inflicted condition generally? For example, will a cockatrice cocktail protect you from medusa petrification?

Personally, I favor the idea that it does, just because I like the idea of preparing yourself against a dangerous enemy by making a medicine out of a weaker creature with the same abilities. It seems delightfully like a vaccine against eye-beams.

Brom
2010-12-08, 12:56 AM
I very much like that idea. How should I word that into the text so it's known that Inoculate functions like that?

Benly
2010-12-08, 01:02 AM
I very much like that idea. How should I word that into the text so it's known that Inoculate functions like that?

Something like "After the requisite period of study, the Apothecary has fashioned an elixir which, on consumption, wards the creature from a harmful condition inflicted by one of the creature's abilities. This protection applies to any effect that would normally inflict the condition on the affected creature", maybe? I'm not sure.

Brom
2010-12-08, 01:12 AM
I'll fiddle with the wording for a bit and get it up there.

Where do you stand on making this a base class?

Benly
2010-12-08, 01:38 AM
I'll fiddle with the wording for a bit and get it up there.

Where do you stand on making this a base class?

I like the idea but don't really have good suggestions to give on what to give it for class feature progression. Some kind of Intelligence or Knowledge synergy seems like an obvious route to take. You could expand on the Biological Inhumanity grafts and make their advancement a core feature of the class. Letting a class break the level-3-spell limit on potions also seems to be popular for homebrew alchemist types, but seems a bit.. bland, I guess, for the Corpsechem. Maybe the ability to extract such overcharged potions from corpses that have the appropriate spell-like or supernatural ability?

Brom
2010-12-08, 01:45 AM
I like the idea but don't really have good suggestions to give on what to give it for class feature progression. Some kind of Intelligence or Knowledge synergy seems like an obvious route to take. You could expand on the Biological Inhumanity grafts and make their advancement a core feature of the class. Letting a class break the level-3-spell limit on potions also seems to be popular for homebrew alchemist types, but

seems a bit.. bland, I guess, for the Corpsechem. Maybe the ability to extract such overcharged potions from corpses that have the appropriate spell-like or supernatural ability?

That's uplifting. It implies that there's a minimum cool quotient that abilities have to have to be part of my class. I like that.

That's an idea. I'd rather stay away from the potions as is and work more on the surgeries. A thought occurs to me: the ability to make metamagicked potions. That would have side effects. Like drugs.

Is that any less bland?

Benly
2010-12-08, 01:57 AM
That's uplifting. It implies that there's a minimum cool quotient that abilities have to have to be part of my class. I like that.

That's an idea. I'd rather stay away from the potions as is and work more on the surgeries. A thought occurs to me: the ability to make metamagicked potions. That would have side effects. Like drugs.

Is that any less bland?

I guess the issue is that it has the chem part and lacks the corpse, if that makes sense. The corpsechem apothecary's core competency seems to be in extracting value from corpses, as the name implies. Being good at general alchemy is a side benefit, and a nice one, but it seems like such abilities shouldn't be the backbone of the class. That said, it could be a decent way to fill out the levels - I'm not sure how it would look in the context of a full progression.

Hopefully that conveys my meaning clearly.

Brom
2010-12-08, 02:00 AM
I guess the issue is that it has the chem part and lacks the corpse, if that makes sense. The corpsechem apothecary's core competency seems to be in extracting value from corpses, as the name implies. Being good at general alchemy is a side benefit, and a nice one, but it seems like such abilities shouldn't be the backbone of the class. That said, it could be a decent way to fill out the levels - I'm not sure how it would look in the context of a full progression.

Hopefully that conveys my meaning clearly.

It does. I think that this angle isn't the best way to do the titular Corpsechem work. As a designer, I'm okay tossing it potion metamagic and giving it more corpse related stuff elsewhere.

Have you looked at the Grafts? I'm curious about what you think of the various Biological Inhumanities.

Benly
2010-12-08, 02:10 AM
The biological inhumanities are interesting. There are only a few so far, so I haven't really had much to say about them.

I'm not sure about the 5-HP cost, but I'd have to see how it plays out. The wording should probably be a little clearer: as it stands, it can be read as meaning that the corpsechem pays his own HP when he installs a graft in someone else, which doesn't make much sense. One question that comes up: can you uninstall grafts? In particular, I could see wanting to take out and replace your Wings graft when you get access to a corpse with better speed and maneuverability.

Oh, something else: the class table shows an ability named "For Fun & Profit" which doesn't seem to actually exist. Am I persistently overlooking it or was it revised out?

Brom
2010-12-08, 02:14 AM
It may have accidentally not been added, as the abilities were written at 5 in the morning. I will add in in a minute here. Good spot.

Basically it's about drugging yourself into being immune to mind affecting abilities.

*.*.*.*
2010-12-08, 08:36 AM
How about the ability to make golems(or undead or even living constructs) out of the bodies of the dead? Maybe even being able to mix and match ability scores and special features/qualities depending on the bodies you use?

Brom
2010-12-08, 08:41 AM
As fun as servants are, I'm always hesitant to use them overmuch. Leadership NPC's being used off screen are usually okay, crafting assistants who go away whenever you're off adventuring are usually okay, but combat NPC's are usually a pain to the DM.

I might allow the crafting of one corpsechem golem, who can be modified as a mission or adventure dictates and grows in power as the Apothecary levels. Does that sound good?

Brom
2010-12-08, 09:19 AM
Some additions/changes to the original class:

- Requirements changed to Knowledge (any 2) 8 ranks, Heal 4 ranks, and Craft (Alchemy) 8 ranks, allowing any class that takes the feat Education (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Education_%28G%29) to meet the requisites for the class by level 5.

- Wording on grafts altered so that it properly states that the possessor of the graft has their maximum hit points lowered by 5 points; removal procedure on graft outlined.

- The 8th level abilities, ''Possibly Unethical,'' and ''For Fun & Profit!" have been added in.

- Wording in Inoculation changed to show that multiple creatures manifesting the same negative condition effect can be negated with the inoculation from any one creature that possesses that shared effect. Please read this part, I want to make sure the wording is clear.

That's it for the time being, I believe. Any other changes that should happen?

Brom
2010-12-08, 10:15 AM
Need the assistance of playgrounders in thinking of appendages, for the section, ''extra parts.'' Wouldn't mind additions to the ''sensory organs'' category either.

Extra parts are stuff like wings, tentacles, scorpion style singers, tails. Generally stuff the size of a limb that confers some broad extra and otherwise unattainable form of utility or motion.

Benly
2010-12-08, 01:46 PM
"For Fun & Profit" doesn't actually mention what the potion does in mechanical terms - it says that it "twists your mind beyond magic" and I know from what you said in-thread that this means you're immune to mind-affecting effects, but the entry doesn't actually say this.

Some grafts that come to mind:

Implant the fins and gills or lungs of a creature with the Aquatic type of at least your size to gain water breathing and a swim speed.

Human feet are terrible. Using bits from halfling ankles and insteps, improve your Jumping, Balancing, and Tumbling skills. Upgrade it with thri-kreen or bullywug calves for some spectacular leaping, and finish it off with dwarf soles and toes for Stability.

In nature, the platypus is the only mammal with poison spurs. Fortunately, you are not limited to nature, and have Arcana, Dungeoneering, and even the Planes to look to for inspiration. You modify the spur, spine, or freaky slaad ovipositor of an appropriate creature into a retractable concealed poison spur in your wrist which you load up by pumping it with the poisons you've made. Alternately, combine it with the expulsive throat of an ankheg to spit poison darts. Note that neither of these should be grafted to someone who isn't poison immune - it could be unhealthy.

Tentacles? Why not! Start with some basic tentacles that give you a bonus to grapple checks, Climb checks, and let you manage your inventory without using your hands (drawing and sheathing things as free actions, and so on). Upgrade them with the muscles from some seriously unpleasant tentacled monstrosity (mind flayers are ideal) and get actual for-reals natural attacks out of the deal, but if you put on too many they won't fit under your labcoat and that is not cool.

You can chop open a purple worm's stomach from the inside and it will close the wound by involuntary muscle action. Humans face at least an ulcer when this happens. Clearly there is room for improvement. Using the material from the stomach of a creature with Swallow Whole, you upgrade your throat and digestive tract. Not only does this render you immune to the ill effects of eating just about anything, but you can swallow objects up to Tiny size and smuggle them about with nary a bulge. Not good enough? Upgrade it by combining it with the digestive tract of a creature with natural plane-shifting ability such as an ethereal filcher for your own slightly disgusting extradimensional storage space.

druid91
2010-12-08, 02:14 PM
"For Fun & Profit" doesn't actually mention what the potion does in mechanical terms - it says that it "twists your mind beyond magic" and I know from what you said in-thread that this means you're immune to mind-affecting effects, but the entry doesn't actually say this.


It sort of does. It just doesn't specify anything beyond resist this level of spell for this much money.

Feliks878
2010-12-08, 02:35 PM
Speaking on entering the class:

When I read the requirements my first thought was actually to be an Expert5/Corpsechem Apothecary X. Expert should be able to qualify for the class, and a flavorful character could be a Doctor who dug a little too deep.

The flavor of the class is great, and the abilities are doing a great job to make that flavor even more potent. You have tons of out of combat options to do strange and interesting things.

In combat, I'm not sure what I would do as a CA player. My first thought is to get a crossbow and start poisoning people. The poor to hit modifier may weaken that approach though. I suppose building up a set of nifty monster bioweapons is the best bet.

Overall, very good. The sheer amount of class abilities is overwhelming at first, and I think there's a real chance here to spread them out by making this a 20 level base class instead, but it works in this form as well.

Benly
2010-12-08, 03:04 PM
Speaking on entering the class:

When I read the requirements my first thought was actually to be an Expert5/Corpsechem Apothecary X. Expert should be able to qualify for the class, and a flavorful character could be a Doctor who dug a little too deep.


I actually had the rather similar idea of a Factotum entry - it has the same advantage of a skill list that accommodate any sort of bizarre combination, plus synergy for the largely Int-driven Corpsechem.

As far as what to do in combat, the recommendation of Master of Poisons as a feat will help a lot - a poison archer seems like a pretty good combat plan for the beginning corpsechem. At higher levels, a Handy Haversack or Belt of Many Pockets filled with Unnatural Repaired body parts seems like it'd be a serious boost. If you can get hold of a beholder corpse, you're set for an artillery division, but there are tons of weird little tools and weapons you can extract from fallen foes before that.

Fizban
2010-12-08, 03:30 PM
I like it, and I'd like to give a lot more advice than just that, but having to open a spoiler for every single ability is an extreme pain and hindrance to comparing different abilities. Each spoiler takes up several lines of space, and most of them only contain 2 or 3 lines, so they make the post longer in addition to requiring extraneous clicking.

Brom
2010-12-08, 03:52 PM
I like it, and I'd like to give a lot more advice than just that, but having to open a spoiler for every single ability is an extreme pain and hindrance to comparing different abilities. Each spoiler takes up several lines of space, and most of them only contain 2 or 3 lines, so they make the post longer in addition to requiring extraneous clicking.

I was worried about this. Should I go through and take out spoilers for all abilities? Keep spoilers only for the longer abilities (like Unnatural Repair, Servitor, Inoculation?)

Brom
2010-12-08, 03:55 PM
I actually had the rather similar idea of a Factotum entry - it has the same advantage of a skill list that accommodate any sort of bizarre combination, plus synergy for the largely Int-driven Corpsechem.

As far as what to do in combat, the recommendation of Master of Poisons as a feat will help a lot - a poison archer seems like a pretty good combat plan for the beginning corpsechem. At higher levels, a Handy Haversack or Belt of Many Pockets filled with Unnatural Repaired body parts seems like it'd be a serious boost. If you can get hold of a beholder corpse, you're set for an artillery division, but there are tons of weird little tools and weapons you can extract from fallen foes before that.

Don't forget that your party members can apply your poisons. In fact, I was thinking that Apothecaries mostly abused alchemical items of their creation during combat to support allies, and left serious poisoning attempts to their teammates.

You should still be able to get a poison in on a mook, though. Investing into +Hit and +Dex items would probably allow you to be a solid poisoner, too.

Benly
2010-12-08, 04:07 PM
Don't forget that your party members can apply your poisons. In fact, I was thinking that Apothecaries mostly abused alchemical items of their creation during combat to support allies, and left serious poisoning attempts to their teammates.

You should still be able to get a poison in on a mook, though. Investing into +Hit and +Dex items would probably allow you to be a solid poisoner, too.

Actually, if you want to be wacky about it, the rules for injury poison allow it to be used on any weapon. That would technically include alchemist's fire and acid, letting you deliver poison with a ranged touch attack and adding some serious punch to otherwise-mediocre alchemical weapons.

Even though it's a bit silly by default, I could see letting Corpsechems mix poisons into their alchemical splash weapons to deliver the injury poison on a direct hit.

Brom
2010-12-08, 04:09 PM
Actually, if you want to be wacky about it, the rules for injury poison allow it to be used on any weapon. That would technically include alchemist's fire and acid, letting you deliver poison with a ranged touch attack and adding some serious punch to otherwise-mediocre alchemical weapons.

Even though it's a bit silly by default, I could see letting Corpsechems mix poisons into their alchemical splash weapons to deliver the injury poison on a direct hit.

Would match the obscenely inventive nature of members of the class with their propensity to make things happen by any means possible.

What is your opinion on my spoiler tag setup? I want the format to be as good as the class. More people will read it if they aren't turned off by the layout, and then more people can have fun because of it, and/or offer me help in making it even better.

*.*.*.*
2010-12-08, 04:46 PM
Some grafts that come to mind:


:smallbiggrin: Awesome! Can't wait till this project gets finished(though it seems that will be far into the future)

Brom
2010-12-08, 09:43 PM
- Rewrote the text on "For Fun & Profit!" so that it more explicitly states what it defends against. Please check to make sure the wording is sufficient unambiguous, please, so that others can avoid confusion :)

- Added in the tentacle.

- Added in Mind Flayer tentacles. Please check the process required to get it: it basically states that in no way can you damage the tentacles, but I am not sure that I worded it well. Also, please provide any information you may have about the Mind Flayer and it's lack of presence in the hallowed SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsters.htm).

- Added in a Scorpion stinger. Is it unreasonable and/or overpowered that you're allowed to decide the ability damage you want to use? Further in-built bioweapon toxic delivery mechanisms to come.

- Removed the requisite ''Augmented Vision'' for Night Haunter and changed it to be simple Low Light Vision, from any source. A friend believes that Elven Apothecaries shouldn't have to take a Low Light Vision graft to get a Darkvision graft.

- Changed the functions of the Gnomish Nose slightly, mostly a buff.

- Added in Darkvision & Low Light Vision as a prerequisite for Predatory Vision.

Furthermore, I'm seeking to add in a, ''built in parts'' section. This would include things like gills, fangs (for a cobra-like bite attack), things that either adapt you to a environment in some fashion or grant you a new body part that is not perceivable even when it is in use (if that makes sense).

Finally, wondering if I should delete some of my own previous posts to make it so that you don't need to pan through so many posts to read the latest chatter.

Let's keep it up, people, and make this class awesome :)

With your stellar advice and supervision, I hope to have something I can put in my DM's game - we are starting a 5th level campaign :)

Benly
2010-12-08, 09:55 PM
It is fundamentally terrible that a human is bent to gravity's whims instead of vice versa. Change this state of affairs by replacing some of your superfluous internal organs with those of a gravorg (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20020802). While you will not be flinging foes about willy-nilly (everyone knows you need beholder eyes for that), your personal gravity will be readjusted to the nearest convenient surface, granting effects similar to Spider Climb and Water Walk.

Speaking of beholder eyes and flinging foes willy-nilly, you may have noticed that the telekinesis eye of the beholder, unlike the simpler beams, is not well suited to Unnatural Repair. This is because its complex controls require a direct brain interface. Fortunately, you already have two direct brain interfaces designed to attach to eyeballs! Simply install the telekinesis eye where your regular eye would go, and enjoy your new bulging oversized eye and telekinetic powers! Less fortunately, this does not play well with visual upgrades, so you'll have to decide which you like better. You could always put it in your forehead, of course, but then where will your mostly-vestigial third eye go? These are dire decisions indeed.

Magicyop
2010-12-08, 09:58 PM
Also, please provide any information you may have about the Mind Flayer and it's lack of presence in the hallowed SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsters.htm).



I'm mostly just lurking on this thread-- awesome work so far, --but just check the frequently asked questions (http://www.d20srd.org/faq.htm) on the SRD. It explains why monsters are missing, and which ones. [disappears]

Brom
2010-12-08, 10:38 PM
I'm mostly just lurking on this thread-- awesome work so far, --but just check the frequently asked questions (http://www.d20srd.org/faq.htm) on the SRD. It explains why monsters are missing, and which ones. [disappears]

Dear Lurker,

Your troubleshooting is made of win.

That is all.

JoshuaZ
2010-12-08, 10:52 PM
Two minor notes:

For A Semi Trained Quasi Professional, I'd suggest having it add int as a bonus rather than have them become int based skills. That way, people with high wis aren't penalized. Since neither of these skills is that important for a Corpsechem Apothecary this shouldn't be a big deal.

Real Alchemist - Flavor-wise I can easily see an artificer entering this class but they get Brew Potion as a bonus feat already. And many wizards entering this class would likewise already have the feat. Maybe add a note that if you already have Brew Potion you get to take an extra item creation feat?

Benly
2010-12-08, 10:56 PM
Real Alchemist - Flavor-wise I can easily see an artificer entering this class but they get Brew Potion as a bonus feat already. And many wizards entering this class would likewise already have the feat. Maybe add a note that if you already have Brew Potion you get to take an extra item creation feat?

Hm. I'm not sure that it's a problem for bonus feats, since Real Alchemist carries its own benefits. Maybe instead "If you already have Brew Potion, you can replace your existing Brew Potion feat with another you could have selected at the time"?

Brom
2010-12-08, 10:58 PM
Two minor notes:

For A Semi Trained Quasi Professional, I'd suggest having it add int as a bonus rather than have them become int based skills. That way, people with high wis aren't penalized. Since neither of these skills is that important for a Corpsechem Apothecary this shouldn't be a big deal.

True. I like this idea. Consider it done!



Real Alchemist - Flavor-wise I can easily see an artificer entering this class but they get Brew Potion as a bonus feat already. And many wizards entering this class would likewise already have the feat. Maybe add a note that if you already have Brew Potion you get to take an extra item creation feat?

I'm going to go ahead and say that you get an extra feat of your choice. If it's item creation, good for you. If you want something else, good for you.

Brom
2010-12-09, 01:31 AM
Woo!

I officially have a player in a campaign trying this class out!
There is some discussion as to the Hit Die, Base Attack Bonus, skills/level, and saves. Would like to ask for community opinion here:

where should these things fall, without changing any of the abilities? Could HD, base attack, and skills/level all go up a step (then matching a Rogue, basically) and remain balanced?

(HD is not written in, but I was originally making it a D4.)

Comment :)

*.*.*.*
2010-12-09, 01:36 AM
I vote rogue like, 4+ int is a tad bit off with such a large amount of skills

Benly
2010-12-09, 01:39 AM
Woo!

I officially have a player in a campaign trying this class out!
There is some discussion as to the Hit Die, Base Attack Bonus, skills/level, and saves. Would like to ask for community opinion here:

where should these things fall, without changing any of the abilities? Could HD, base attack, and skills/level all go up a step (then matching a Rogue, basically) and remain balanced?

(HD is not written in, but I was originally making it a D4.)

Comment :)


I would favor rogue BAB and HD - wizard chassis is only really justified on a caster. Skills per level could be left at 4 or brought to 6 (bard), but I wouldn't bring it all the way up to 8 - having tons of skill points is sort of one of the rogue's main deals, and as an Int-heavy PrC you'll likely have a fair chunk of bonus skills on top of your base.

Brom
2010-12-09, 02:04 AM
I would favor rogue BAB and HD - wizard chassis is only really justified on a caster. Skills per level could be left at 4 or brought to 6 (bard), but I wouldn't bring it all the way up to 8 - having tons of skill points is sort of one of the rogue's main deals, and as an Int-heavy PrC you'll likely have a fair chunk of bonus skills on top of your base.

I misspoke and meant to say, ''as a bard.'' 8 + Int for a class who has enough incentive to stack Int that they would do a headband of Intellect is a touch much, lol.

I edited in based on your suggestion: D6 HD, 3/4 BAB, and 6 + INT is now the standard for the class. It should make poisoning people easier, grant the ability to survive until poisons kick in, and mean that when they can't provide some kind of poison shenanigan, they are still sharp minds with lots of skill utility. Not rogue level skill utility, but still.

Also, is there any kind of forum karma system, like with Proboards? I want to give Benly some kind of accolade in appreciation for his consistent responses, thorough reading of the material I've presented, and usable advice.

Fizban
2010-12-09, 03:19 AM
I was worried about this. Should I go through and take out spoilers for all abilities? Keep spoilers only for the longer abilities (like Unnatural Repair, Servitor, Inoculation?)
Spoilers are most useful for breaking up walls of text and making it easier to scroll between different parts, so you only need a few. You don't have a massive background for becoming a corpsechemist, so you can leave that unspoiled: just spoiler the notes and the picture. Entry requirements should be plainly visible with the table, so they definitely don't want a spoiler.

For the class features, leave the "overspoiler" but get rid of all the spoilers inside and see how it looks. I'll guarantee that it will be easier to read, and I don't think any of your paragraphs are so long that they'll disrupt anything. Just make sure to keep the bold titles (Ability Name: Text for ability), since those are the most important part for making it readable.The fluff section has a lot more text, but I'd still either just leave it all unspoiled or put it in one big spoiler.

For the Inhumanities section, unspoil the top part and leave the main spoiler for the bottom, but cut out the inner spoilers.

And of course it should go without saying that you should save a quick copy before you do all this in case you don't like the way it looks afterward. While it's important to format in a way that the forum-goers can easily read and interact with your stuff, it's still your stuff, so you've got the final say.

Brom
2010-12-09, 03:52 AM
Fizban is also in line for forum karma buff, if I can somehow bestow that upon him for his help =)

Brom
2010-12-09, 08:15 AM
- Redid the spoilers so it should involve less clicking. Please post your before and after opinions.

- Addressed a question one of my players/reviewers brought up inquiring if Inoculation can be used to retroactively cure the condition it was made to prevent. It cannot.

- Addressed a question a friend brought up regarding the duration of the benefits yielded by Surgical Lecture, and what happens if you do one Surgical Lecture on one monster and give a Surgical Lecture on a different kind. Answer: second Lecture replaces the first, in every fashion but duration. As a new Lecture, it's duration is full, irrespective of how much longer the bonuses from the first Lecture would have lasted.

- Corrected some writing about the effective range on the Mostly Figurative Third Eye. Wrote in some changes to the Gnomish Nose. Did I say that in a previous update?

Fizban
2010-12-09, 10:46 PM
Much easier to read now, though you could still cut out some extra spaces. For example:

Culling Weakness: You realize that through a perverse combination of self-discipline, biochemical treatments, potion use, self-directed physical therapy, and practice, you can make yourself a more perfect and efficient being. You are omniurnal: you don't sleep. Rest is necessary if you are a spellcaster. You no longer accrue the penalties of aging, although you accrue the bonuses, and still expire when your time comes. You no longer need to eat or drink, although you may choose to do so. Finally, you perfect your metabolism in absence of the offbalancing consumption of food. Any day where you do not eat food, the duration of potions you consume is doubled, and any variable numeric effects are increased 50%.

That takes up much less space, though it flows kinda funny (writing class has had me in editor mode for months). The grafts still need to be removed from their separate spoilers.

The prices on Toxicologist and later abilities seem nice at first glance, but may require testing. Pricing can be either similar to existing items (in which case the class ability is the privilege of making them at all, and the poisons will need to be much more expensive), or cheap enough that when you get the ability you can use it practically at will (in which case the ability is effectively the sum of anything you could get with it, and the cost is just fluff). You can try for the middle road, but I find it easier to work with extremes. In order to truly balance the harvesting of monster poisons and abilities, you need to either stipulate that the players cannot go monster hunting, or search every book for the monsters that could be harvested. It's similar to the polymorph problem. That said, the poison prices are probably enough to stop them going rampant while still being cheaper than the ridiculous standard prices, and the body part requirement on later abilities is much more stringent than polymorph's "familiar."

I'd like it if Surgical Lecture lasted at least an hour. Having the benefits wear off in the amount of time it took to grant them (entirely possible) is just lame, and I would expect something like that to last through the next "area" such as a building or group of caves.

Real Alchemist is nice, but you should be aware that there are many class spell lists that have spells at reduced levels, such as the Adept with heal at 5th, or the Trapsmith with Haste at 1st. It's usually better to say any spells off the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard lists if you need to be that broad.

I'm not sure what the use of Craft: paraphernalia is. I was expecting a way to use ingested poisons in combat from the lead-in, but the actually implements don't do anything you can't already do with a weapon or just breaking the container the gas is in.

Lab worker is really nice, allowing 4 people to craft at full strength. The only problem is that you'll want to be crafting poisons worth hundreds of gp, which takes an obscenely long time before reduction. But that's a problem with the mundane crafting system, not the class.

Why does Posthumous Upgrade use +Level+1/2 int, Toxicologist uses +Level+int, and Brewing Perfection is just +Level? Alchemical items need the boost more than the others and have the lowest, while poisons can be the most deadly and have the highest. It's easier if all the DC increases are by the same amount (which incidentally may be a little much, but I'd playtest it first). On Brewing Perfection, alchemical damage items have long since become useless, so you'll need more of a multiplier if you want it to really matter. I'd be using a Yrthak horn in combat myself.

Does Fun and Profit affect all spells of a level or below, or just one specific spell?

Brom
2010-12-09, 11:27 PM
Insert loads of Fizban's awesome critique here.

I am actually not very used to using alchemy or poisons at all in game. It was my impression that alchemy was generally more useful and scaled better on account of using different kinds of saves and having better effects than straight ability damage.

I avoided using the same + to DC because I figured with certain abilities, it could be dangerously powerful. Corpsechem Apothecary level + Intelligence on Beholder Disintegrate?

On the other hand, many poisons and alchemical items seem to have a low enough DC that Apothecary level + Intelligence is valid.

Good call on the Potion thing. I'll write that in when I finish the damn writing assignment I just accidentally deleted :(

Yes, For Fun & Profit was intended to provide protection against all spells of the level you made it to protect you against and lower, though I can see how it could be read otherwise. Fixing it next time I have a moment.

I have gotten several comments about the duration of surgical lecture and will be implementing the design changes you suggested on that front :)

Craft Paraphernalia was intended to be a way to use ingested poisons in combat, but seems weak. I might cut it and shift stuff around. Especially when a Graft might be a more exciting way to do it.

Please stay in editor mode. And make as many concise versions of the abilities I have written as you please. Is there anything I could help you with? Some homebrew I could critique and look at for you, or any ideas you have for your own homebrew that you wouldn't mind bouncing off someone?

Thanks for your help thus far.

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-11, 12:18 AM
you may want to check this (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/Store/product/pid=52.html) out, gives some excellent grafts

Debihuman
2010-12-11, 10:57 AM
Brom, there are a few monsters that are considered Product Identity and are under copyright by Wizards of the Coast:

* beholder
* gauth
* carrion crawler
* displacer beast
* githyanki
* githzerai
* kuo-toa
* mind flayer
* slaad
* umber hulk
* yuan-ti

None of these are in the SRD. They are NOT open gaming content.

Debby

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-11, 01:22 PM
Brom, there are a few monsters that are considered Product Identity and are under copyright by Wizards of the Coast:

* beholder
* gauth
* carrion crawler
* displacer beast
* githyanki
* githzerai
* kuo-toa
* mind flayer
* slaad
* umber hulk
* yuan-ti

None of these are in the SRD. They are NOT open gaming content.

Debby

That only means he cannot post their stats, not that he can't use them otherwise a lot of the PbPs would be banned right now.

Debihuman
2010-12-11, 09:06 PM
He asked why they weren't in the SRD.

Debby

druid91
2010-12-11, 09:21 PM
And you gave an answer, but not the correct one. the correct one is that they are holding things back so that you have to buy their stuff. Though considering 3.5 is out of print I think they should just give up and release the SRD stats.

absolmorph
2010-12-12, 01:24 AM
And you gave an answer, but not the correct one. the correct one is that they are holding things back so that you have to buy their stuff. Though considering 3.5 is out of print I think they should just give up and release the SRD stats.
They want to encourage people to switch to 4e.

Also, this looks like a really wickedly fun class to play.

Brom
2010-12-13, 08:57 PM
I officially have two players doing this in campaign groups of mine =)

Are there any further changes that can be suggested before we go into the test-playing phase of this class? ;)

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-14, 02:10 AM
I officially have two players doing this in campaign groups of mine =)

Are there any further changes that can be suggested before we go into the test-playing phase of this class? ;)

How about, in addition to the normal biological inhumanities, you let them integrate a part affecting by Unnatural Repair into their system so it becomes a permanent fixture to the body.

Brom
2010-12-14, 07:47 AM
That would be interesting o.O Not sure how to write that in.

druid91
2010-12-16, 10:10 AM
Remodeled Organ (Ex:) The Corpsechem Apothecary Can remodel a Body part repaired via unnatural repair for implanting as a graft. Afterwards it no longer functions normally, until it is attached via grafting. All the normal biological inhumanity graft rules apply.

How's that?

NineThePuma
2010-12-20, 06:03 AM
Just a minor note...


To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemistís lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

So barring DM fiat, Psionics doesn't qualify for the class.

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-20, 05:38 PM
Just a minor note...

So barring DM fiat, Psionics doesn't qualify for the class.

Most just ignore that rule since alchemy is pretty much just chemistry

NineThePuma
2010-12-20, 05:45 PM
In which case you need Knowledge skill ranks, likely in Nature or Arcana. <__<

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-21, 12:40 PM
I have an idea for an inhumanity, a hypodermic needle that replaces the middle finger on one hand. You can 'load' it with any poison you wish, stored in a poison sac grafted into the arm, then choose to inject it with a sting attack. Then make a second that allows more than one poison sac but only able to inject one for each attack. Then a third that lets you inject two for each attack.

The poison sacs would have a tube-like tentacle you slip the poison into to fill the poison sacs that are normally closed but, with a simple mental command, open to allow poison then reseal so it doesn't spill out.

Mylee
2010-12-21, 10:31 PM
Dude, if you come over for Christmas dinner you should help me make a Corpsechem Apothecary. Robert said that he wont be able to DM anymore because of his school schedule. :smallfrown: So you might be the new DM, if you are ok with that. I really want to play a Corpsechem Apothecary!!!

Let me know -S/M

*.*.*.*
2010-12-24, 03:58 AM
Any updates? I can't wait for this thing to be a class

Brom
2010-12-24, 11:58 AM
Dude, if you come over for Christmas dinner you should help me make a Corpsechem Apothecary. Robert said that he wont be able to DM anymore because of his school schedule. :smallfrown: So you might be the new DM, if you are ok with that. I really want to play a Corpsechem Apothecary!!!

Let me know -S/M

That's just terrible. =/

Well, I do have two pre-existing IRL campaigns. We can pick up either of those. Or start fresh. I always, always have ideas for fresh starts. For once, I wouldn't mind DM'ing a more typical fantasy campaign. Show up. Raid a dungeon. Sell loot. Save the world ;)

Something like what Ethan would have ran. With a little more flavor on the side. But that's starting to derail the thread.


Any updates? I can't wait for this thing to be a class

I'm debating adding this as a class.

On one hand, this is cool. If I was a player, I'd want to be delving into this juiciness sooner rather than later. (If it sounds like I'm flattering myself and tooting my own horn, know that this is my own opinion. I make what I like and thus I like what I made ^^)

On the other hand, compare, ''Corpsechem Apothecary'' to other classes. It's decently versatile, but not to the extent of a normal class. It has, ironically, -too much flavor.-

Maybe it's just my stylistic interpretation, but a base class with 20 levels is actually supposed to be sort of bland, to allow for a wide variety of characterizations. Think: Druid, Scout, Ranger, Rogue. While archtypes, these archtypes can be wildly different personas.

Also, I have half a dozen other homebrew projects I'm fiddling with. There's The Witch, a full casting spontaneous caster that prepares spells and has supernatural abilities that I want to squeeze into a t3/t2 class,

The Thoughtshaper, a Psionic 1/3rd manifesting class that adopts a bardlike ability to inspire as well as the capacity to demoralize, and lets you go Darth Palpatine by changing alignments,

The Beastfury Commando, a class based around taming magical beasts, aberrations, and other stuff to use as slave labor, giving you the ability to ''conjure'' what's tamed. In retrospect, vaguely Pokemonish, with just enough flavor to be cool anyways.

There's also various fixes and subsystems I'm debating on implementing/creating. Feat points, weapon ranges, swing speeds, stuff to make the game as is more enjoyable in simple and intuitive methods.

And the ever-existing challenge of taking cool races with LA's and nerfing them into playable races without LA's (looking at you, Drow & Mind Flayer. Yes. I really do dream of a playable Mind Flayer race. Hopefully I wouldn't even need racial levels, but that's unlikely. It's LA +8, for God's sake.)

EdroGrimshell
2011-01-24, 04:03 PM
I just realized a way to make this into a class (and make it a little less silly at the same time). I'm working on a base class called the underworld apothecary now, its primary ability is Black Medicine, which is essentially the ability to produce poisons and alchemical items quickly and efficiently as well as making more potent alchemical items.

kryshen
2013-09-27, 10:16 AM
Reaaaaaally like this class, and fits perfectly into a very evil campaign I am running. I have nerfed the class heavily for my own lower-powered campaign, but I feel some of these abilities are simply too powerful. Notably the poison dc increasing abilities and the staggering number of immunities. Try to look for other 10 level classes that grant so many functional immunities across so many different areas. I've included the mechanical nerfs/buffs I'm applying in my campaign and leave them open for your review. I have also included explanations for each change.




Skills: 4+int
justification look at classes that have 6 skills. Rangers, monks, very technically skilled classes. I'm even hesitant to allot 4 here, because even though they have an extensive skill list, Corpsechems are also an int class, meaning base skill is less crucial and should be lowered

Toxicologist

4d-2 doses from small or smaller
d4-1 doses from medium or large
d4 doses from huge or larger

justification this is mostly fluff related. I didn't like the idea of getting a single dose of poison from a giant worm and a spider. This makes it more variable, and adds the chance of getting nadda even if you stack the hell out of your skills to find the poisons.

Surgical Lecture
bonus changed from +1/lv + auto-crit to:
+1 to attack rolls / 2 corpsechem levels, rounded up,
+1 on rolls to confirm / corpsechem level

justification +10 to attack rolls is simply too high, and I am hugely averse to anything that guarantees anything. Auto-confirm crit is something I haven't seen anywhere else in D&D either, so I would change that to a simple bonus to confirm.

Real Alchemist
when you attempt to make a potion using this ability, you must roll corpsechem check with a dc of 15 + double the spell level. You gain a bonus on this roll equal to your corpsechem level + your intelligence modifier. If you fail this check, the potion is ruined and you lose half the raw goods.

justification I didn't like the idea of having access to every spell for potions ever. This gives the corpsechem a chance to not know a spell. It makes the power of their potion versatility slightly weaker. Since there are many ways to make potions highly effective, I think this ability needs to be nerfed slightly

Bioweapon
add one half your corpsechem level + your int modifier to the save dc of the poison. To modify the existing potion requires and expenditure equal to the market cost of the modified poison. If you wish to add this to a poison as you make it, increase the price for the craft check by 50%.

justification wow, that was one insanely powerful ability. Consider that you could easily be increasing the save dc of a poison by 16-20 with enough power gaming by level 10. That's just too much. I increased the cost of improving potions because I do not like when gold expenditures feel meaningless.

Poison Immunity
+4 on saves against poison. Blood cannot be used to purify poisons. If you save against initial damage from poison, you do not take secondary damage.

justification This is a nerf applied purely for my own campaign, where I have removed all immunities to disease, poison, ability damage/drain for most non-living creatures. I, like you, enjoy the potential of poison, and I don't like when my characters completely ignore it.

Laboratory Worker
reduce craft times by 25%, offensive spells must have a range of short, medium, or long (cannot be cones, lines, rays etc). Your caster level for the spell is equal to your corpsechem level. The range increment for thrown potions is 10 ft. No lab assistants.

justification so this is one of the easier ones to justify. reducing craft times by 25%, stacking with the other time reducing feats, I feel keeps the crafter from just vomiting out a horde of legendary items while still giving a notable boost in power. Mechanically it makes sense to not allow spells with an inherent area (wave/cone/line) because there is no objective way to determine the orientation of the resulting spell. which direction the cone faces would have to be randomized, and rays don't fit the fluff. So this change is not only mechanical, but for the sake of player and DM convenience. potion bombs always have a range increment of 10 feet, and even with the -4 for throwing 30 feet, you're still almost certainly going to hit the square you're aiming for. Being able to throw a potion 150 feet is absurd to me. Funny though.

Caster level I feel should be restricted by this class primarily, and you'll note you get this ability at level 5, the minimum level for 3rd level spells. Magical.

I don't like the lab assistants because no other class grants minions without magical justification. You should have to hire these. I would caution you against adding class features that are primarily and individually role-play based. To give too many built in "identity mechanics" cheapens the roleplaying experience and lessens customizability.

Culling Weakness
increase age categories by 50%, do not increase max age. You still take aging penalties. You need to eat and drink half as much. Not eating does not increase the effectiveness of potions.

justification another nerf for my campaign specifically, I don't like just how many age-related buffs there are here. Remember, the monk's CAPSTONE is freedom from aging. Without the other buffs here. I liked the hyper-metabolized potions, but it was also too powerful for most cases.

Brewing Perfection
the increases here apply only to alchemical items, not poisons and potions.

justification too stronk. I think this is what you intended, but I needed to clarify.

All But a Labcoat:
does not function with the special potions in VP. You gain +5 on knowledge checks about disease and poison, but do not auto-succeed. You cannot change a potion to another potion with a minute of work.

justification VP is my campaign world. It has its own alchemy system, similar to the alchemy system in the elder scrolls. again, do not like the automatic successes. The ability to morph potions is neat, but waaaaaaaay too strong.

For Fun And Profit
while under the effects, you have a 33% chance to be confused on each turn. The effect lasts for 16 hours and costs 250 gp/level of protection. While under the effects you lose immunity to fear and suffer a -4 to saves against fear effects.

justification reflecting the psychedelic style of the potion I added the confusion and fear effects as a nerf to the overall power of this ability. I also increased the cost significantly because, again, this is a hugely powerful ability that should be restrictive.

Possibly Unethical:
divination spells require a caster level check against a dc equal to 10+ double your corpsechem level + your int mod.

justification again with the 100% successes and the 100% failures. I simply cannot dig it. This gives your opponents a chance to foil your best laid plans, which is far more exciting for the players and less frustrating for the DM


Nurture All Life
inoculating strain gives a bonus to saves against the chosen disease equal to 1/2 your corpsechem level, rounded up.
Weaponized: you chose maximize or empowered, not both. Save dc increased by 1/2 your corpsechem level (rnd up) + your int mod

Altered strain: must affect the same trio of ability scores. So a dex disease can be made a strength disease but not an int disease. Physical must remain physical, mental must remain mental.

justification most of this is simply power reduction. I like altered strain, but I didn't want to trivialize disease, I want them to still feel unique and singular.

Comes With the Job
+2 on fortitude saves against all things other than things that affect objects.

justification wow this ability was OP. RAW, it made you immune to disintegrate haha. Again I am trying to level the number of immunities granted by this class, so this might feel underwhelming, but I am also slotting into a low-powered campaign.


Servitor
you can control a number of HD equal to twice your corpsechem level. Enslaved creatures lose all levels and HD associated with them. They lose all mental supernatural or spell-like abilities. They are slowed, as zombies, and gain immunity to mind-affecting and pain effects. The pheromone communicator costs 1000gp per HD it is to control. If you do not have a communicator of this value, your effective maximum HD controlled is reduced to that amount.

justification Made this ability more in line with animate dead and similar abilities, adding the restrictive element of the cost to make it more difficult to gain this ability to its fullest and most powerful extent. I like the idea of controlling these creatures, but, fluff-wise, leaving them with their levels, casting abilities, and mental abilities seemed odd.

Try Not To Think About It
removed immunity to magical detections of lying. Removed immunity to compulsions and sense motive checks.

justification again removing immunities to keep this class' power in line with other PPCs




below is mechanical stuff I added for the ease of my players and for my personal campaign. You might also find it interesting.


Biological Inhumanities:
changed significantly.

no maximum on how many grafts you can have. Each graft requires a constitution check against dc 20. If the recipient fails this check, the recipient of the graft permanently loses 1-2 con based on the size of the graft. If you roll a 1, make a fort save against dc 15. If you fail this, you die.

Mostly your grafts are limited by the creatures you harvest parts from. For the most part you can graft any supernatural ability or extraordinary quality, but they all must be approved first. Grafts are limited by the size of your form, so you cannot graft on three new huge sized arms. We'll go through grafts on a case-by-case basis, as it is too cool of an idea for me to willingly abrogate your creativity or limit it to an overly simplified and necessarily restrictive set of rules.

The biological grafts are mostly okay, though clear them with me before diving into them.

I strongly suggest looking into the proposed grafts in the thread, there are some creative ones there.

Each modification takes a day of work


Paraphernalia: Using a hypodermic needle (assuming IM application for ALL poisons) is not easy. With all of the paraphernalia stated, you are considered to be using an improvised weapon. To use the paraphernalia on an unwilling and conscious target, you must grapple the target, and then, in the grapple, win a grapple check to make a touch attack against them.