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WarKitty
2010-12-07, 11:08 PM
How would you roleplay mental ability drain on a character? In this case I'm dealing with charisma - I got drained from 9 down to 3 and I'm really not sure how to act it out. I'm normally a quite reserved and intelligent character with an unusual appearance and manner that causes people to overlook her or assume she is a child/pet. I want to get some RP mileage out of this, but trying to change an established character is even harder than figuring out how to roleplay scores in the first place!

DungeonDelver
2010-12-07, 11:12 PM
Perhaps you play your character as being even more reserved. A complete loss of confidence in social situations, or the character becomes oblivious to social norms and the way his or her behavior is impacting others.

Intelligence would be easy, as would wisdom, but charisma? That's a tough one.

WarKitty
2010-12-07, 11:15 PM
Perhaps you play your character as being even more reserved. A complete loss of confidence in social situations, or the character becomes oblivious to social norms and the way his or her behavior is impacting others.

Intelligence would be easy, as would wisdom, but charisma? That's a tough one.

Unfortunately one of the main features of this character is an almost uncanny ability to read people and understand their reactions. She knows exactly how people are reacting to her and what her affect on them is. She just doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to listen.

(Really high wisdom, being designated sense motive person)

CockroachTeaParty
2010-12-07, 11:17 PM
Have you ever had an out of body experience, where you almost forget who you are? As if your consciousness is an outsider inhabiting a strange body?

...
<_<
>_>

Well, I have, and it's rarely a pleasant experience. I imagine having your Charisma seriously drained would be like having one of those experiences, where you lose your sense of self. For without a unique personality, what are you but an automaton?

If you're trying to RP serious CHA drain, don't speak unless spoken to, and never really have an opinion. Stare blankly at people, even close friends and family, as if you don't know them, or understand them. Become unconcerned about your physical appearance, posture, diction, or relationships with others. Cave to commands or suggestions you otherwise would object to. Become listless, mild, bland, unimpressive, and to a certain extent confused.

DungeonDelver
2010-12-07, 11:18 PM
Perhaps your character's ability to get his or her ideas across is just gone. The ideas are there, well formed and thought out, but he or she trips over his/her words, completely unable to articulate a real point. Accidental insults are flung out, awkward wording is used, and a general loss of communication ability.

(As in, dropping one's diplomacy down to negatives)

Reynard
2010-12-07, 11:22 PM
It really, really depends how much the ability was drained. Going from 18 to 17 is not that note-worthy.

Going from 18 to 8, however...

WarKitty
2010-12-07, 11:27 PM
It really, really depends how much the ability was drained. Going from 18 to 17 is not that note-worthy.

Going from 18 to 8, however...

It's in the OP. 9 to 3.

Chilingsworth
2010-12-07, 11:29 PM
Unfortunately one of the main features of this character is an almost uncanny ability to read people and understand their reactions. She knows exactly how people are reacting to her and what her affect on them is. She just doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to listen.

(Really high wisdom, being designated sense motive person)

Since your character is diseased/afflicted/otherwise not her 'normal' self, I'm not sure how I see her 'main features' are relavent to her behavior while drained.

WarKitty
2010-12-07, 11:31 PM
Since your character is diseased/afflicted/otherwise not her 'normal' self, I'm not sure how I see her 'main features' are relavent to her behavior while drained.

The relevance is that particular behavior being a manifestation of her wisdom score and not her charisma score. After all, she can still make good sense motive checks.

Chilingsworth
2010-12-07, 11:38 PM
Actually, I jealous of you: Last time I had a character with mental drain, (int drain,) my dm insisted that noone (including my character) could possibly tell the difference! So, I was denied the chance to roleplay my character's changing mental state, or to seek out treatment before I was practically rendered vegeative.

WarKitty
2010-12-07, 11:54 PM
Actually, I jealous of you: Last time I had a character with mental drain, (int drain,) my dm insisted that noone (including my character) could possibly tell the difference! So, I was denied the chance to roleplay my character's changing mental state, or to seek out treatment before I was practically rendered vegeative.

Huh? Even if your character doesn't know what's going on, there ought to be a change. Then again, our group tends to let characters be aware of their own stats - it's just easier that way.

TurtleKing
2010-12-08, 12:39 AM
I would say you already have what you are looking for with this drain.


She just doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to listen.

Just take that to the extreme as in the way that Dungeon Delver said. Also since you have high Sense Motive this can play out were you realize what you said had an X effect after it has been said. So you maybe able to pick up the social cues at most a few moments after you get them.

I can say this from personal experience except for the drain. I have a fairly good Sense Motive, but may not always work at the social encounter. My Charisma tends to be variable since some I get along real well with and others I fail. (aka I have seen my share of Nat 20s and Nat 1s) The reason why I do that is in large part to Asperger's Syndrome. Check that out as that seems what your character might now have. Plus will help define how you roleplay your character better in this situation.

An example is this post took no fewer than five previews before posting.

mucat
2010-12-08, 01:12 AM
One way to figure out how a character who's "not herself" would act is to think about how drugs or other altered mental states affect an existing personality in the real world.

A starting point for Wis drain might be to have the character think as if she were drunk -- not stumbling around or showing physical symptoms, of course, but misreading social cues, jumping to conclusions, and generally doing dumb things.

Int drain -- imagine what it's like when you've missed a night or two of sleep and still have to function. And again, remove the physical symptoms and leave the mode of thought.

Cha drain? For an extreme case like this -- drained to 3 -- I would have the character act like she's in a dissociated state and "not really there". She perceives what's going on, thinks rationally and even insightfully about it...but she keeps forgetting to actually assert herself and take action.

She doesn't get angry, doesn't get scared for herself, and acts more like a disconnected observer than a participant in the scene.

Gamer Girl
2010-12-08, 02:14 AM
A person with low Charisma should make social blunders and make poor first impressions.

They might be either the brooding doesn't like talking much character (that quickly gets old), or I can go for the one who doesn't really bother with diplomacy and is frightfully honest. Very quiet wallpaper sorts, characters who lack confidence, or perhaps less likely to hold back urges despite societal norms.

The often avoid the spot light and are shy(For a 3, this is the guy who will look away even if you sit next to him and talk..and he will run too).

The typical 'by the book' person has low Charisma, as they can't apply the 'book' to real life. They have the information, but can't put it to practical use.

Often low Chr folks don't know the meanings of words like "compromise," and "whisper" .

And characters might be oblivious to social norms, or might just not care about them, considering sweet words to be a sign of weakness. Then again, sometimes they're just unsure of themselves, and that shows in their manner of speaking. Appearance has nothing to do with charisma-look at how many celebrities there are out there that might be easy on the eyes, but that constantly put their feet in their mouths.

Very low Cha (3-5):Usually are them as little more than sheep. Even more of a wallflower than low Cha characters. However willing to follow any commanding personality, and even willing to act against their own alignment if egged on by a very charismatic character.

WarKitty
2010-12-08, 02:27 AM
A person with low Charisma should make social blunders and make poor first impressions.

They might be either the brooding doesn't like talking much character (that quickly gets old), or I can go for the one who doesn't really bother with diplomacy and is frightfully honest. Very quiet wallpaper sorts, characters who lack confidence, or perhaps less likely to hold back urges despite societal norms.

The often avoid the spot light and are shy(For a 3, this is the guy who will look away even if you sit next to him and talk..and he will run too).

The typical 'by the book' person has low Charisma, as they can't apply the 'book' to real life. They have the information, but can't put it to practical use.

Often low Chr folks don't know the meanings of words like "compromise," and "whisper" .

And characters might be oblivious to social norms, or might just not care about them, considering sweet words to be a sign of weakness. Then again, sometimes they're just unsure of themselves, and that shows in their manner of speaking. Appearance has nothing to do with charisma-look at how many celebrities there are out there that might be easy on the eyes, but that constantly put their feet in their mouths.

Very low Cha (3-5):Usually are them as little more than sheep. Even more of a wallflower than low Cha characters. However willing to follow any commanding personality, and even willing to act against their own alignment if egged on by a very charismatic character.

Again a lot of this comes across as low wisdom to me. A high wisdom character is sure of themselves and does not bend easily to suggestion. While they may follow orders, they are unlikely to be tricked or swayed. They may not be able to make proper use of social norms, but they are highly sensitive to people's reactions to them.

I think that's the real problem especially with applying it to an existing character. Part of her characterization as an exceedingly wise person is that strength of will and awareness of other's intentions. She may not be able to communicate her ideas and intentions well, but she is unlikely to be swayed personally.

Callista
2010-12-08, 02:34 AM
Mental ability drain is quite different from having had that low stat your whole life--it's like the difference between having been born with dyslexia and having had a stroke that removed some of your ability to read. The person with the naturally low stat will be much better adjusted to it, since he has had a lifetime to find work-arounds for the problem. Someone who was born with a Charisma of 3 has probably found ways to do things that don't depend on his ability to deal with people.

However, someone whose Charisma has been drained down to 3 would be a very different story. He's lived his life as someone who has an average amount of people skills, and has depended on them to some extent--and suddenly he loses that. A loss of self-confidence to the point of triggering the onset of social phobia would be an appropriate RP analogue of the effects of that charisma drain--and he's not going to be dealing with it nearly as well as a character who has always had a low charisma. Rather than simply being a quiet introvert, the character is likely to be outright scared of people, always afraid of making the wrong move.

Slaadi_Party
2010-12-08, 03:24 AM
A person with low Cha probably also have difficulty hiding his or her own feelings not because they dont know its "wrong", just that they dont have the tools to do so.

AnswersQuestion
2010-12-08, 04:25 AM
Unfortunately one of the main features of this character is an almost uncanny ability to read people and understand their reactions. She knows exactly how people are reacting to her and what her affect on them is. She just doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to listen.

(Really high wisdom, being designated sense motive person)

My suggestion is losing the sense of self. The character would have a hard time telling whether what he saw was his doing or someone else's, letting slip things that should be kept shut, for example.
Another significant change is, of course, that it becomes less assertive towards others: Pick each skill check and thing what it looks like when someone is incompetent at it. Then dumb it down further. Do it again if you aren't satisfied yet.

Tengu_temp
2010-12-08, 07:51 AM
Just what caused the charisma drain in the first place? This might be an important factor.

As a general idea, I suggest playing your character as a bleak shade of her former self. She still can make decisions and read other people as before, but most of her personality and emotions are gone. She knows something is wrong and probably feels cold on the inside, as if an integral part of her was missing.

SamsDisciple
2010-12-08, 09:48 AM
I really like the idea posts above about how in RL drugs are mental stat drain. So you could act like silent Bob! Absolutely smart and perfectly understand the situation but completely unable to effectively communicate!

tahu88810
2010-12-08, 10:19 AM
Imagine that each person's soul is a landscape reflecting their personality. Some people have rocky mountains with beautiful and majestic rivers trickling down, and some people have dreary and boring office buildings the walls of which are stacked with papers.

Whatever your character's was has just been decimated by a nuclear blast. It is now a forlorn wasteland, nothing more than an endless expanse of gray. She is emotionally empty, and lacking any social drives. She eats, sleeps, fights to defend herself, and does whatever is required to physically survive or perform day-to-day tasks. But when the party stops at a tavern between adventures, when she might normally be in the main room drinking with the others, if not talking, she now spends her time in the rooms they have rented just...doing nothing. She does not smile, and she does not weep. She is emotionally lost to the world, and any attempt for others to speak to her and get through her defenses of silence and pragmatism are futile.

Gamer Girl
2010-12-08, 02:54 PM
Again a lot of this comes across as low wisdom to me. A high wisdom character is sure of themselves and does not bend easily to suggestion. While they may follow orders, they are unlikely to be tricked or swayed. They may not be able to make proper use of social norms, but they are highly sensitive to people's reactions to them.

I think that's the real problem especially with applying it to an existing character. Part of her characterization as an exceedingly wise person is that strength of will and awareness of other's intentions. She may not be able to communicate her ideas and intentions well, but she is unlikely to be swayed personally.

Well, all your mental stats are linked, of course. The low charisma examples are just random. You need to cheery pick what might fit the best.

For the character, she would loose her awareness. That is a hallmark of low Charisma, not being able to 'read' others.

Psyren
2010-12-08, 05:14 PM
For the character, she would loose her awareness. That is a hallmark of low Charisma, not being able to 'read' others.

I think that would be Wisdom loss. Charisma deals with sense of self, Wisdom with sense of others.

Wisdom is definitely awareness/perception - Listen, Spot and Sense Motive are all tied to it. I would RP Wisdom drain/damage as hearing voices in one's head - distracting enough to worsen perception in a low dose, and maddening in a high dose.

Loss of Charisma should make you less forceful, less sure of yourself. Charisma drain would be depression. You're still smart etc., you just don't care about things as much - which makes it harder for you to be charming, intimidating, or even force magic items to follow your instructions.

Gavinfoxx
2010-12-08, 05:18 PM
I'd play it as a traumatic brain injury sort of thing...

WarKitty
2010-12-08, 05:46 PM
Just what caused the charisma drain in the first place? This might be an important factor.

As a general idea, I suggest playing your character as a bleak shade of her former self. She still can make decisions and read other people as before, but most of her personality and emotions are gone. She knows something is wrong and probably feels cold on the inside, as if an integral part of her was missing.

Banshee that was somehow making ranged charisma drain attacks. Got hit with the horrific appearance as well, so my physical stats all got drained.

TurtleKing
2010-12-08, 05:48 PM
Warkitty you do have a good idea of how this affects you. A sense of self and perception are tied to wisdom not charisma. Charisma is for how you present yourself. In this case you are most likely apathetic to your surroundings. Apathetic means you do not respond emotionally to what goes on around you, and does not mean were you are unaware of your surroundings - you are. The skills help define this for you as your wisdom is high so your Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival have a good modifer. Charisma is tied to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Perform, and Use Magic Device. With a low charisma it is hard to influence you emotionally or for you to influence others the way you want. You would have a hard time decieving someone. Low charisma affects you diplomacy by inable to influence people.

If I was playing a character who had their charisma drained that low I would be apathetic to everything, but I want to feel. I would want to have friends but don't want to mess the chance up when I interact for I am unable to be friendly.

Depression and anxiety will set in soon if your character still wants to interact with other people, but is scared of themselves for knowing they are most likely going to screw up. So the person would push others away, and try to hold on at the same time. The conflict is the reason why for the anxiety. Most likely will develop or increase the connection with one person or animal (typically dog) that they trust. They will cling to the person or animal with a grapple modifer that puts the best grapplers to shame for not wanting to be alone. The depression would be a symptom for you are slow to act, and this could be you don't even want to get out of bed in the morning. You have to get someone to motivate you just to do some of the basic things let alone complex tasks.

Strangely enough this can be a boon in one situation. At social gatherings with a low charisma you may become "invisible" to the others there. This by at those gatherings people react to social stimuli, and you put off almost no social stimuli. This will mean having a very small presence so you may get close to people and eavesdrop on them without being noticed. Even if the person you are near is being interacted with you will be ignored.

Edit: Partial swordsaged by Psyren

Grelna the Blue
2010-12-08, 05:59 PM
Unfortunately one of the main features of this character is an almost uncanny ability to read people and understand their reactions. She knows exactly how people are reacting to her and what her affect on them is. She just doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to listen.

(Really high wisdom, being designated sense motive person)

Perhaps she has lost a lot of her sense of self. She is still capable of reading others and knowing what they want and feel, but her own personality has blurred/faded to the point that she is no longer sure what she wants and feels, leaving her subdued and uncertain. Charisma is, at least in part, force of personality, so I think that would fit.