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Arathnos
2010-12-11, 04:06 PM
Build-A-Baddie Workshop

I was sitting at my desk the other day trying to design a compelling villain for my players, and not just the villain, but all his cronies. The games my group likes to run are heavy in both story and combat, and I need my enemies to reflect that.

So I sat thinking about how I could make the Bugbear lieutenant of my Gnomish drug lord interesting and menacing, both fluff and crunch wise. It dawned on me to turn to you fine people of the GITP boards, and then I realized, why stop at this one character? Why not work together to build a series of widely varied villains and organizations as a community, that can be picked up by any DM and adapted for use in their campaign world.

So that is the purpose of this thread, a Community Villain-building project. All are welcome to contribute any and every idea, and once a plurality has been reached on any given topic, we move on to the next aspect, until we have a fully-detailed baddie.


Tl;DR --- Community Villain Building Project

Arathnos
2010-12-11, 04:15 PM
Reserved for Finished Baddies

Arathnos
2010-12-11, 04:17 PM
Reserved for whatever

The Mentalist
2010-12-11, 08:05 PM
How do you want to start?

Fable Wright
2010-12-11, 08:35 PM
How do you want to start?

I would say that it would probably best to make a generic concept for a villain, and then add in statistics, minions, backstory, fluff, etc., most likely starting with the bugbear lieutenant.

So, any ideas on where to go from there?

The Mentalist
2010-12-11, 09:24 PM
I was primarily questioning, what premise he had so far. I'd think Fighter/Rogue mix, more thuggish than sneakish. Possibly with power attack.

Sort of a sergeant by nature, in command but not the big leader. Believes in both negative and positive reinforcement among his men, awarding extra loot and beatings depending on behavior.

I'd like stats from there before I add to it. Give me a point -buy or array?

Jallorn
2010-12-11, 09:26 PM
I was primarily questioning, what premise he had so far. I'd think Fighter/Rogue mix, more thuggish than sneakish. Possibly with power attack.

Sort of a sergeant by nature, in command but not the big leader. Believes in both negative and positive reinforcement among his men, awarding extra loot and beatings depending on behavior.

I'd like stats from there before I add to it. Give me a point -buy or array?

Sounds LN to me. Definitely good fodder for a mid-game mini-boss.

The Mentalist
2010-12-11, 09:29 PM
Sounds LN to me.

Lawful something, I think he's capable of being anything on the moral axis as of yet.

Hyudra
2010-12-11, 09:46 PM
Interesting villains usually defy convention in one way or another. What's stereotypical about a bugbear thug? What can we turn around to make him more compelling?

Ideas:
Bugbears are hairy - But this guy, he had most of his fur burnt off after a fireball spell went off near an alchemist's workshop. Covered mostly in scar tissue, he keeps his flesh hidden.
Bugbears are sneaky - But this guy, he likes wearing heavy plate armor and using the biggest, spikiest weapon he can hold, often dragging it behind him as he walks, sparks flying off of cobblestones.
Bugbears are evil - But this guy has a soft spot for kids. He rarely goes five minutes without some urchin or orphan greeting him or running up to him for a piggyback ride.
Bugbears are undisciplined savages - but this guy is pretty diplomatic, in his own way. The group is caught off guard when he makes a very persuasive argument/threat/deal.

Satyrus
2010-12-11, 10:36 PM
Ideas:
Bugbears are hairy - But this guy, he had most of his fur burnt off after a fireball spell went off near an alchemist's workshop. Covered mostly in scar tissue, he keeps his flesh hidden.
Bugbears are sneaky - But this guy, he likes wearing heavy plate armor and using the biggest, spikiest weapon he can hold, often dragging it behind him as he walks, sparks flying off of cobblestones.
Bugbears are evil - But this guy has a soft spot for kids. He rarely goes five minutes without some urchin or orphan greeting him or running up to him for a piggyback ride.
Bugbears are undisciplined savages - but this guy is pretty diplomatic, in his own way. The group is caught off guard when he makes a very persuasive argument/threat/deal.

I'm a fan of the first and second one especially. The physical description is nice in any situation to define him and separate him from other cronies while giving him a "I've lived through worse than you" kind of feel.

The heavy armor and dragging of weapons is a nice concept too but it would definitely be best if this character was a repeat encounter, preferably with the PCs forced to retreat the first time they fight him so that they have an immediate response to the sound again if they here it. That way it encourages some planning, since they've had experience fighting him before and been pushed back.

Also if he's part of a drug ring could he possibly weaponize the drugs against the PCs or give some to his low soldiers to make them "rage". I think it would be hilarious and dangerous to give a spellcaster any potent drugs, no idea what kind of drugs your evil guys would have though and whether they'd be willing to use them anyway since that's their profit they'd be wasting.

The Tygre
2010-12-11, 11:05 PM
I like where this is going. :smallcool: Okay, I say there's got to be a catch to the kids thing. Maybe they're orphans because he specifically killed their parents, or their mules and spies for whatever crime ring he's got going. He still genuinely loves them, he just has no problems with using them in reprehensible ways.

Hyudra
2010-12-11, 11:18 PM
I like where this is going. :smallcool: Okay, I say there's got to be a catch to the kids thing. Maybe they're orphans because he specifically killed their parents, or their mules and spies for whatever crime ring he's got going. He still genuinely loves them, he just has no problems with using them in reprehensible ways.

I dunno. That sours it a little. The point, there is that nobody's 100% evil. Just about everyone has genuinely good traits, and in this event, the bugbear's kindness might work for him when the children interfere in the battle just when things go in the favor of the PCs. Combatants the PCs can't/aren't willing to hurt.

Temotei
2010-12-12, 12:21 AM
I've always liked those diplomatic villains. It really messes with the PCs when their target suddenly questions them instead of counterattacking.

Maybe the bugbear turned his head from the fireball, protecting his hair on one side of his face.

A bardbear/bugbard would be kind of cool if its singing/playing was fluffed a little darker or more evil. That could directly play into his loving children, too, as orphans and such would love music to occupy their day. Everyone loves music, anyway.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-12-12, 07:16 AM
I have a Bugbear with a focus on lots of unarmed strikes lieing around if you want the stats. CR is around 12, I think. I haven't finished it yet (need the racial stat adjustments and I think he still needs skills and equipment), but I could certainly do so if you want a hand-to-hand brawler. A bit of refluffing can have him as anything from a frost-covered juggernaut from the freezing wastes to a refined fighter using pressure point strikes whilst in a state of supreme focus. Interested?

Jallorn
2010-12-12, 10:52 AM
Interesting villains usually defy convention in one way or another. What's stereotypical about a bugbear thug? What can we turn around to make him more compelling?

Ideas:
Bugbears are hairy - But this guy, he had most of his fur burnt off after a fireball spell went off near an alchemist's workshop. Covered mostly in scar tissue, he keeps his flesh hidden.
Bugbears are sneaky - But this guy, he likes wearing heavy plate armor and using the biggest, spikiest weapon he can hold, often dragging it behind him as he walks, sparks flying off of cobblestones.
Bugbears are evil - But this guy has a soft spot for kids. He rarely goes five minutes without some urchin or orphan greeting him or running up to him for a piggyback ride.
Bugbears are undisciplined savages - but this guy is pretty diplomatic, in his own way. The group is caught off guard when he makes a very persuasive argument/threat/deal.

I like 3 and 4, they break the most common cliches of all lieutenants, not just bugbears.

Strudel110
2010-12-12, 11:52 AM
How about 2, 3, and 4 together? You would have a good starting character outline and you could just fill in stats, motives, alignment, etc.
Kinda see this guy as not so much evil as patriotic or just doing his job, he should probably be a recurring character. He seems like the kind of villaign that could become an ally or at least help the PCs as a means to help himself or his loved ones. I wouldn't make him totally good though somewhere in the neutral zone.

Jallorn
2010-12-12, 12:15 PM
Personally, I'm seeing someone who's probably always antagonistic, but is always quite polite. Affably Evil, essentially.

Nopraptor
2010-12-12, 12:39 PM
I agree with Strudel110 the combination between a menacing hulk and a suave diplomat is interesting combination.
Also the idea of the "Bugbard" is good, but instead of music I suggest children rhyme-song-things which in battle can be super scary (giant hulking spiky brute + creepy song = your PC's going "RUN FOR IT!")

Keinnicht
2010-12-12, 12:57 PM
I agree with Strudel110 the combination between a menacing hulk and a suave diplomat is interesting combination.
Also the idea of the "Bugbard" is good, but instead of music I suggest children rhyme-song-things which in battle can be super scary (giant hulking spiky brute + creepy song = your PC's going "RUN FOR IT!")

Playing even more on the Bard aspect, how about having him keep some bard stereotypes, which make him even stranger? I.E. Bards are stereotypically foppish and womanizing. I, for one, like the idea of an outrageously dressed, charming bugbear who nonetheless is a terrifying, violent enforcer.

Nopraptor
2010-12-12, 01:05 PM
I see your point but by making a villain too bardish you sort of inject him with stereotypical qualities which we were trying to avoid, granted, a Bugbard is very unsual but if that all that he is (a Bugbard) I think it tips the scale between unique and gimmicky

flabort
2010-12-12, 02:34 PM
give him weapon proficiency (Improvised), make him carry a large cradle around. Have him smash the players with it, and (this may require grapple and throw checks) throw it up into a tree, with the player in it. Then have him start singing "rockaby baby".

Rockaby Baby
In the tree top
When the wind blows
The Cradle will rock
When the bough breaks
The Cradle will fall
And down Will come Baby
Cradle and all

then have him smash the tree to bits, so the guy takes a fair bit of falling damage.

This may not be possible, considering the combined throw/grapple check, but whatever. :belkar:

Arathnos
2010-12-12, 02:43 PM
Wow, the storms here knocked out the internet for a while and I have been unable to get on until now. The responses I'm seeing are fantastic, I'm glad you all are interested.

So it would seem that so far we have a Lawful-something scoundrel of sorts. I myself am picturing an evil Han Solo-esque character based on what I have read so far.

As far as him being somewhat foppish or womanizing, it would make sense to go with either extreme in the context of my game world, but we could always aim to keep it neutral. The drug lord he works for is very much that type of character. He is suave and gentlemanly the vast majority of the time, but he is somewhat sadistic. He delights in using the addiction spell to make his enemies addicted to Luhix, Agony, or 'Mana' (A drug in my campaign world that boosts arcane casting abilities at the cost of horribly crippling physical effects), then he sets them free, knowing full well they will be forced to turn to him in order to avoid the pain of withdrawal.

So, he could either, in my mind, be exactly like the man he serves in that respect, or go completely the opposite route and be emotionally isolated, unmoved by temptations of the flesh or heart. However, I personally like the suave bugbear idea more myself, and I think that would be the best campaign neutral solution too.

So in the interest of avoiding a simple Bugbard without any real depth, what if he perhaps damaged his voice in some way? Owing to some spell or trauma, his vocal cords are damaged horribly. He speaks through the use of some sort of magical construct or trinket worn around the neck. It gives him a haunting, almost robotic voice. He owes his ability to speak, and therefore sing, to the drug lord, so he feel he owes a debt to the man who gave him his 'life' back?

Nopraptor
2010-12-12, 03:06 PM
are you by chance israeli ? (were having a whole lot of storms here too)

the whole voice thing just screams Darth Vader so if your party is familiar with him make sure he doesn't become "Drath Bugbard" in their eyes (from experience once a villain gets a nickname he loses alot of evil cred)

also I thought of the guy as something kinda of like a Big Daddy from Bioshock
and his bardliness can be expressed in repeating children rhymes as battle hymns or if you would like to take him in a more "human" direction the I think what you suggested is sweet too :biggrin:

flabort
2010-12-12, 03:35 PM
Are you kidding?!
"Darth Bugbard" is a name that just SCREAMS epicly awesome.

man, anything that draws a nickname from Vader GAINS evil cred in my eyes.

He wouldn't have the ominous hissing click, but Darth Bugbard is already shaping into an awesome villain.

Aniu
2010-12-12, 04:51 PM
If we're going for a vocal deformaty, why not incorporate the fireball idea from earlier? You would have a fantastic contrast between his bestial, scarred exterior, and his suave tongue.

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-12, 06:25 PM
For those of you how haven't seem In Bruges, go away now and come back when you've seen it.

On the kids angle, possibly rather than having him adopting them [which would get stupid quickly], having him have the same code as Harry does in the film, meaning that he punishes people much more harshly for breaking the rule "the kids are alright" than he does for crossing him.

You'll die either way but woe betide you if you've hurt a child...

I'm also going to voice that having clanking great armour is not a good way to do business as a drugs-dealer's henchman, so suave and well dressed might be best, especially with a chain shirt sewn into his duds. If you wish to avoid the sneaking stereotype.

Just remember; a good lieutenant is always there to deliver a message. It just happens that sometimes the message is bullets!

Arathnos
2010-12-12, 06:48 PM
are you by chance israeli ? (were having a whole lot of storms here too)

the whole voice thing just screams Darth Vader so if your party is familiar with him make sure he doesn't become "Drath Bugbard" in their eyes (from experience once a villain gets a nickname he loses alot of evil cred)

also I thought of the guy as something kinda of like a Big Daddy from Bioshock
and his bardliness can be expressed in repeating children rhymes as battle hymns or if you would like to take him in a more "human" direction the I think what you suggested is sweet too :biggrin:
I like the idea of him having some strange deformity, in a way that is not commonly seen, but the more I think about it, the harder it becomes. It is certainly unusual, but it makes it that much harder for him to come off as charming or 'suave'. So, I think we should have a vote of sorts. If you are for the vocal damage, or against it. [Also, I'm from the the west coast of the states, sorry :smallwink: ]


If we're going for a vocal deformaty, why not incorporate the fireball idea from earlier? You would have a fantastic contrast between his bestial, scarred exterior, and his suave tongue. I like this, and if we decide to go with the vocal deformity I strongly second this idea. It ties things together very nicely.



For those of you how haven't seem In Bruges, go away now and come back when you've seen it.

On the kids angle, possibly rather than having him adopting them [which would get stupid quickly], having him have the same code as Harry does in the film, meaning that he punishes people much more harshly for breaking the rule "the kids are alright" than he does for crossing him.

You'll die either way but woe betide you if you've hurt a child...

I'm also going to voice that having clanking great armour is not a good way to do business as a drugs-dealer's henchman, so suave and well dressed might be best, especially with a chain shirt sewn into his duds. If you wish to avoid the sneaking stereotype.

Just remember; a good lieutenant is always there to deliver a message. It just happens that sometimes the message is bullets! Sounds good to me. The idea of this hulking creature dressed in fineries and smooth-talking his way out of run-ins with the city watch with subtle threats is very intriguing. All while carrying out a personal vendetta against any who harm the children.

Jallorn
2010-12-13, 10:30 AM
Personally, I think the deformity could easily be a little gimmicky. I'd expand, but I've only got a little time.

centuriancode
2010-12-13, 11:15 PM
I vote in favour of the vocal problem.

If you give him a quasi-robotic voice, then that makes the nursery rhyme battle hymns all the more worrying to a PC. That means that they are more likely to try to run for it the first time they see (and are inevitably trounced) by him, instead of trying to fight it out to the bitter end in a misguided assumption that, since they're nearly dead, he must be too. Also, having bizarre and highly memorable quirks like the voice issue means that the PCs will recognise him for the recurring villain he is and accept that they won't necessarily be able to beat him.

More than anything else, though, it's cool. Darth Bugbard shall strike terror into the hearts of all who her is rasping, rattling (yet strangely persuasive) voice!

On a practical note, it's not as hard as you'd think to make him suave and charming despite vocal difficulties. If he's a bard, he probably has high Charisma and Dexterity, which will enable him to pull off all of the non-vocal aspects of suave. For the vocal parts of suave, you just have to change how the charm works a little. If, instead of him being voiceless without it, you make the rasping rattle his voice without the charm, then the charm can restore him to a normal voice in polite company (lieutenants of major drug lords would, presumably, rank highly enough in the organisation to also have acquired social status outside of it). The rasping rattle can just be his street voice. Also, if no-one other than him and the gnome know about the charm (the PCs can probably find out on a spell craft, spot, listen, or similar check), then he could use it as a really good way to seem innocent and puzzle the PCs. They hear him as a wierd robot voice when they first encounter him in a street fight or drug bust (or whatever suits), and then are completely confused when they hear him at a fancy party (or some such thing) and encounter his fabulous bard's voice. You could probably (if it so suited your campaign) devote an entire session into the party figuring out what is going on with his bizarre contrasts of donations to the orphanages coupled with brutal murders, and spectacular bard-ness coupled with robot voice.

Falconer
2010-12-14, 12:35 AM
I have little to say in regards to the build, but with regards to the children thing, I think it's awesome. I kinda see potential for a "one man's hero is another man's villain" sort of thing you might want to use--perhaps the bugbear and his underlings (and possibly, but not necessarily, the gnome drug lord) are seen has heroes among the city's poor and criminal classes, while being hated by the rest of the society, which bears the brunt of their violence. It'd be interesting, from a PC perspective, to see the enraged populace and the results of the violence the bugbear and his men commit, only to venture into the Theives' Quarter and find that the bugbear is hailed as a hero and nobody is willing to help them.

Nopraptor
2010-12-14, 04:25 PM
I think Falconer really hit something here... We haven't really thought about the world's perspective and I believe that is one of the top feature of an antagonist. The conflict of views he suggested is pretty briliant and I think its one of the best things to add to our Bugbard!

But I digress, I think we should recap and make some final decesions and finishing touchs... Any ideas on how to organize this? (if you agree that is:smallredface:)

playswithfire
2010-12-14, 08:46 PM
OK, here's my take: Draug, the magic-blooded bugbear, along with the crunch for using him at a number of levels, mainly because I like building characters and I like the idea of this Build-A-Baddie Workshop. He's not entirely complete (a few missing feats, mainly), but I think it's got enough to use it. He's gestalt (because I like using gestalt for BBEGs to offset NPC wealth by level vs PC wealth by level) and uses the elite array. It incorporates several things from this thread: he's diplomatic, has a soft spot for kids, and has what could be considered a deformity, though it's more of a difference than a true deformity. Feel free to disregard or suggest changes, but I made it, so I thought I'd post it.

Back storyI found myself thinking of this guy as a mix of Hitman with a Heart of Gold (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitmanWithAHeart) and Satisfied Street Rat (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatisfiedStreetRat), though that may just be me. Still a little vague on the overall backstory, but he probably grew up in and out of an orphanage, spending his time out of the orphanage learning to defend himself and get by on his wits; also learning that, for better or worse, the only ones making any money were the ones breaking the law. He started out as a lookout and occasional enforcer and eventually moved into dealing. The people running the orphanage disapproved of his activities, but would still take him in, occasionally hiding him from trouble, in exchange for his promise that he would not recruit any of their other kids. He agreed and, as he saw the other children move on to somewhat successful, and also legal, careers, he expanded this protection to the other children in what became his turf. He'll sell to anyone over the age of majority, but any child he finds using drugs, whether his or another dealer's, gets a stern talking to the first time and a bad scare the second; any dealer selling to children in his turf gets the scare and a beating for a first infraction and gets deposited at the edge of town with a few broken limbs for a second. That said, he does take care of a few organizations, including the orphanage, perhaps to ease his conscience or because he feels like he owes them, and a large number of others because they pay him protection. That said, he will also deal harshly with anyone who threatens his business, whether they be local law enforcement, rivals, or wandering "heroes." Some of the first group, either genuinely or for fear of reprisal, consider that he is perhaps the lesser of possible evils if a drug trade is inevitable.

DescriptionSlightly paler than the average bugbear, with dark red hair, with that on top of his head usually pulled back into a ponytail, that on his face regularly shaved off, and that on the rest of his body tending to remain short. His eyes are the inverse of the standard bugbear eyes; red with white pupils instead of the other way around. Wears relatively light armor which is easily hidden or embedded in his clothing and walks with an ornate cane, though purely as decoration/weaponry.

CrunchPrimarily a Hexblade*//Bard, the former for striking fear into and debuffing enemies and the latter for buffing his allies, and has levels of crusader and swordsage mixed in for greater combat prowess. His main weapons are his fists and his cane, which either forms its tip into a point or hides a sword within and is represented by a few different weapons at different levels. At the lowest levels, he interchanges a sap and a rapier; at higher levels, he uses a Merciful rapier. A few things are Rule of Cool'ed**, but nothing too powerful, I don't think. He's got a few spells, though not enough for that to be his main means of offense or defense, so his main contributions will be the Inspire line of bardic musics to aid his allies, the Hexblade's Curse and Dark Companion as well as the Doomspeak feat to cripple his enemies, and a wide array of low to mid level martial manuevers.

*Using a few of the recommended changes from the original creator of the class listed here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7412.msg243547#msg243547)
** Uses the Ascetic Mage feat to stack Unarmed Swordsage and Bard for unarmed strike damage and add Cha to AC in light armor instead of Wis. Merciful rapier does bludgeoning damage when dealing nonlethal, piercing when lethal, to better portray it as a cane. He's going to be a lawful bard, though just barely.

Draug at ECL 4
Magic-Blooded Bugbear; Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
{table]Hit Dice| d6+3d8+12 (32 hp)
Initiative| +3
Speed| 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class| 18 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, +2 leather armor), touch 13, flat-footed 15
Attack| Sap +6 melee (1d6+3) or rapier +6 (1d6+3)
Special Qualities| Low light vistion 60 ft., scent
Saves| Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities| Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16
Skills| Balance +10, Diplomacy +9, Gather Information +5, Jump +10, Move Silently +9, Perform(oratory) +9, Sense Motive +5, Tumble +10
Feats| Doomspeak, TBD
Class Levels| LA/HD 3//Bard 4
Class Features| Bardic Knack (2 ranks), Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Inspire Competence
Spells|Lvl 0 (3/day) - Light, Lullaby, Message, Resistance
Spells|Lvl 1 (3/day) - Charm Person, Cause Fear, Expeditious Retreat
Spells|Lvl 2 (1/day) - Eagle's Spleandor, Tongues
[/table]

Draug at ECL 8
Magic-Blooded Bugbear; Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
{table]Hit Dice| d6+3d8+4d10+24 (66 hp)
Initiative| +3
Speed| 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class| 21 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, +4 mithril chain shirt +1 deflect), touch 14, flat-footed 18
Attack| Masterwork Sap +12/+7 melee (1d6+4) or rapier +12/+7 (1d6+4)
Special Qualities|Low light vistion 60 ft., scent, mettle
Saves| Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +8; +3 against spells and spell-like abilities
Abilities| Str 16+2, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16
Skills| Balance +10, Bluff +8, Concentration +9, Diplomacy +9, Gather Information +5, Intimidate +10, Jump +11, Move Silently +9, Perform(oratory) +9, Sense Motive +5, Tumble +10
Feats| Doomspeak, TBD, Song of the White Raven
Class Levels| LA/HD 3/Hexblade 4//Bard 6/Crusader 2
Class Features| Bardic Knack (3 ranks), Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +2, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Indomitable Soul, Hexblade's Curse 4/day, Dark Companion
Spells|Lvl 0 (3/day) - Light, Lullaby, Message, Resistance
Spells|Lvl 1 (4/day) - Charm Person, Cause Fear, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat
Spells|Lvl 1 (1/day) Disguise Self, Undetectable Alignment
Spells|Lvl 2 (3/day) - Eagle's Splendor, Heroism, Tongues
Maneuvers| Charging Minotaur, Crusader's Strike, Foehammer, Stone Vise, Tactical Strike
Stances| Bolstering Voice, Tactics of the Wolf
[/table]

Draug at ECL 11
Magic-Blooded Bugbear; Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
{table]Hit Dice| d6+3d8+7d10+33 (91 hp)
Initiative| +3
Speed| 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class| 26 (+3 Dex, +4 Cha, +3 natural, +5 +1 mithril chain shirt, +1 deflect), touch 18, flat-footed 19
Attack| +1 Merciful Rapier +16/+11 melee (2d6+4) or unarmed strike +15/+10 (1d10+4)
Special Qualities|Low light vistion 60 ft., scent, mettle
Saves| Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +10; +4 against spells and spell-like abilities
Abilities| Str 16+2, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16+2
Skills| Balance +10, Bluff +12, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +12, Gather Information +6, Intimidate +12, Jump +10, Move Silently +9, Perform(oratory) +10, Sense Motive +8, Tumble +10
Feats| Doomspeak, TBD, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus(Diamond Mind weapons), Ascetic Mage, TBD
Class Levels| LA/HD 3/Hexblade 4/Swordsage 3//Bard 8/Crusader 3
Class Features| Bardic Knack (4 ranks), Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +2, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Indomitable Soul, Hexblade's Curse 4/day, Dark Companion, AC Bonus, Zealous Surge
Spells|Lvl 0 (3/day) - Light, Lullaby, Message, Resistance
Spells|Lvl 1 (4/day) - Charm Person, Cause Fear, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat
Spells|Lvl 1 (1/day) Disguise Self, Undetectable Alignment
Spells|Lvl 2 (4/day) - Detect Thoughts, Eagle's Splendor, Heroism, Tongues
Spells|Lvl 3 (2/day) - Fear, Glibness, Haste
Maneuvers| Charging Minotaur, Crusader's Strike, Foehammer, Stone Vise, Tactical Strike, Revitalizing Strike
Maneuvers| Bounding Assault, Burning Brand, Claw at the Moon, Clever Positioning, Cloak of Deception, Death Mark, Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap
Stances| Bolstering Voice, Tactics of the Wolf
Stances| Island of Blades, Dance of the Spider
[/table]

Draug at ECL 14
Magic-Blooded Bugbear; Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
{table]Hit Dice| d6+3d8+10d10+56 (131 hp)
Initiative| +3
Speed| 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class| 29 (+4 Dex, +5 Cha, +3 natural, +6 +2 mithril chain shirt, +1 deflect), touch 20, flat-footed 20
Attack| +1 Merciful Rapier +19/+14/+9 melee (2d6+4) or unarmed strike +18/+13/+8 (2d6+4)
Special Qualities|Low light vistion 60 ft., scent, mettle
Saves| Fort +12, Ref +13, Will +13; +5 against spells and spell-like abilities
Abilities| Str 16+2, Dex 16+2, Con 16+2, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16+4
Skills| Balance +11, Bluff +16, Concentration +16, Diplomacy +16, Gather Information +7, Intimidate +16, Jump +10, Move Silently +10, Perform(oratory) +13, Sense Motive +12, Tumble +11
Feats| Doomspeak, TBD, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus(Diamond Mind weapons), Ascetic Mage, TBD, Song of the White Raven, Combat Casting
Class Levels| LA/HD 3/Hexblade 6/Swordsage 4//Bard 10/Crusader 4
Class Features| Bardic Knack (5 ranks), Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +3, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Inspire Greatness, Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 10, Indomitable Soul, Hexblade's Curse 5/day, Dark Companion, AC Bonus, Zealous Surge
Spells|Lvl 0 (3/day) - Light, Lullaby, Message, Resistance
Spells|Lvl 1 (5/day) - Charm Person, Cause Fear, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat
Spells|Lvl 1 (3/day) Alarm, Disguise Self, Prestidigitation, Undetectable Alignment
Spells|Lvl 2 (4/day) - Detect Thoughts, Eagle's Splendor, Heroism, Tongues
Spells|Lvl 3 (3/day) - Cure Serious Wounds, Fear, Glibness, Haste
Spells|Lvl 4 (1/day) - Dominate Person, Zone of Silence
Maneuvers| Charging Minotaur, Crusader's Strike, Flanking Maneuver, Foehammer, Stone Vise, Tactical Strike, Revitalizing Strike
Maneuvers| Bounding Assault, Burning Brand, Clever Positioning, Cloak of Deception, Dancing Mongoose, Death Mark, Moment of Perfect Mind, Shadow Stride, Sudden Leap
Stances| Bolstering Voice, Tactics of the Wolf
Stances| Island of Blades, Dance of the Spider
[/table]
Required Sources
SRD
This Link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050505b&page=4) - Doomspeak
Tome of Battle - Swordsage, Crusader, Song of the White Raven, maneuvers, stances
Complete Warrior - Hexblade
Complete Adventurer - Ascetic Mage (though I tweaked it to be bard/swordsage instead of monk/sorcerer)

Doppelganger
2010-12-14, 09:35 PM
Why should darth bugbard have a deformed voice? I sort of like the idea of a hieously scarred bugbear with a soft, soothing voice. I think that it would be all the more creepy, especialy if he recites poetry in the middle of battles.

Nopraptor
2010-12-15, 08:52 AM
Wow... First of all playswithfire thanks for that awesome contribution :smallbiggrin:

secondly, I think the deformity is quite crucial to his charecter because it emphasizes the contrast between his brutality and his soft spot for kids so if you feel like adding to\ tweaking what you have already done that would awesome and if not that's ok too.

In addition, I dont think that you made him vicious enough about people who hurt kids, one of the main parts of his personality is that he is their protector from all harm and I think that a criminal of his magnitude isnt the kind of person to settle for a beating or a few broken limbs, remeber that he is the subordinate of the city's kingpin which means he can pretty much off whoever he wants to

Arathnos
2010-12-15, 05:54 PM
That looks really good, and I only have two (rather small) nitpicks.

The first is that I agree with Nopraptor in that I don't think he is quite hard enough on violators of his creed as is. Someone who peddles to children or harms them should be dealt with severely. They are beat to within an inch of their life, but never killed unless it is an especially heinous offense, because even the most powerful drug lord in town can't afford to always make enemies, and Draug knows this.

A second offender, however, is killed in a gruesome fashion, their mangled corpse left as a sign of their crimes. There is a great scene in one of the early Spawn comics by Todd McFarlane [linked here (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aY-7EtMFVQM/SrSeXFTuUgI/AAAAAAAACXQ/yEPpYXVd5_8/s400/DSC05074.JPG)] where a particular revolting criminal lures little boys and girls to his ice cream truck, then sexually assaults and slaughters them. Spawn strings him up by chains with the note in aforementioned picture. This is, in maybe a slightly more graphic manner, how I picture Draug dealing with offenders.

The second nitpick is that while I like the added power boost from him being gestalt, do you all think we should include a non-gestalt version as well, in the interest of maximizing adaptability to different campaigns? Or should we just leave that to the individual DM?

playswithfire
2010-12-15, 07:41 PM
That looks really good, and I only have two (rather small) nitpicks.

The first is that I agree with Nopraptor in that I don't think he is quite hard enough on violators of his creed as is. Someone who peddles to children or harms them should be dealt with severely. They are beat to within an inch of their life, but never killed unless it is an especially heinous offense, because even the most powerful drug lord in town can't afford to always make enemies, and Draug knows this.

A second offender, however, is killed in a gruesome fashion, their mangled corpse left as a sign of their crimes. There is a great scene in one of the early Spawn comics by Todd McFarlane [linked here (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aY-7EtMFVQM/SrSeXFTuUgI/AAAAAAAACXQ/yEPpYXVd5_8/s400/DSC05074.JPG)] where a particular revolting criminal lures little boys and girls to his ice cream truck, then sexually assaults and slaughters them. Spawn strings him up by chains with the note in aforementioned picture. This is, in maybe a slightly more graphic manner, how I picture Draug dealing with offenders.

I agree I need to make him more vicious; I think, among other things, I forgot how high up in the organization he was and the latitude that afforded him. I was originally thinking more along the lines you've described but somehow didn't write it that way. I agree killing for a first infraction should be exceedingly rare because if it's an employee, they can't learn and become useful and if it's a rival, too much of that will lead to a war of sorts, but I should up the intensity of the beatings.



The second nitpick is that while I like the added power boost from him being gestalt, do you all think we should include a non-gestalt version as well, in the interest of maximizing adaptability to different campaigns? Or should we just leave that to the individual DM?

I can probably make a non-gestalt, mainly moving hexblade to replace the crusader levels, but I'd just as soon leave him as is and you can play him at a slightly lower level if the gestalt version seems too tough.

I probably won't have time to do much of a rewrite til Saturday, but I'll try to do something then. Thanks for the feedback.

centuriancode
2010-12-16, 01:10 AM
I'd just leave him as a gestalt. He works, he's scary. He is highly combat capable. In the final write up of our dear Darth Bugbard, I suggest including a list of the books where you can find the different classes he uses. That way, people unfamiliar with some of the classes (like me) won't have to spend quite as much time trawling books (like I did).

Justification of the deformed voice: something about Darth Vader singing nursery rhymes in a slightly off-key voice (only a little, it still has to be recognisable) just screams creepy to me. It also gives him something for the players to remember him by, and makes the caring about little kids aspect better. If, however, you don't like the idea, that's cool. We're after a majority view, generally adaptable villain here, so whatever seems to fit that best probably is. Individual DMs can always alter things to their own taste.

flabort
2010-12-16, 05:02 PM
If you do use him in a non-gestalt game, you can call the ecl4 version ecl6, you can call the ecl8 version ecl12, etc.
He'll be roughly that power level (In relation to the party) anyways, so it works.
That way not only can you leave him gestalt, but it makes him that much more flavorful.

Strormer
2010-12-16, 05:40 PM
Why should darth bugbard have a deformed voice? I sort of like the idea of a hieously scarred bugbear with a soft, soothing voice. I think that it would be all the more creepy, especialy if he recites poetry in the middle of battles.

I'll toss this one out there too. The hideous creature with a soothing voice plays well alongside the drug dealer and murderer who plays with children in the alleys. Also, there's something to be said for the fact that the children would have to see past his scarred face and not be frightened of him, which makes him appear even more gentle when around them, thus throwing his violence with the PC's, he is a villain after all, in relief.

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-16, 09:42 PM
Holy crap! I've been sigged!

ForzaFiori
2010-12-17, 01:35 AM
Maybe the reason he loves kids is tied into his deformity. Maybe when whatever burned him burned him, the kids of a nearby orphanage pulled him to safety, or ran for a cleric or something., which would make him owe them his life, and develop a huge need to protect them.

Dust
2010-12-17, 01:56 AM
I don't have a great deal to offer in terms of suggestions for Draug specifically, but I have a potentially relevant link in my sig.

centuriancode
2010-12-17, 05:53 AM
Owing the orphans a debt of gratitude could work, though I liked the first suggestion that it simply be because he used to be a street kid first. Just a personal preference thing, no logic, rhyme, or reason to it.

Nopraptor
2010-12-17, 09:32 AM
Sorry for my ignorance but, what in the world is gestalt? :smallconfused:

ForzaFiori
2010-12-17, 10:29 AM
Sorry for my ignorance but, what in the world is gestalt? :smallconfused:

You use two classes per level, and take the best of both. The best hit dice of the two, best proficiencies of the two, all the skills of both lists, best skill points of the two, etc, and all special abilities (bonus feats, spells, rage, what-have-you). Basically you advance two classes at once. Makes for a stronger character, as well as one with alot more options

flabort
2010-12-17, 11:33 AM
but remember, it's the best of both, not both added together. If ever they have the same thing (and all classes have HD, BaB, etc.), it only takes the better, not adds them together.

Silverscale
2010-12-17, 01:38 PM
Slightly random question but what would you call it and would it even make any sense to take 2 classes at every level like a gestalt character but instead of taking the best of the two classes you take the lesser of the two classes? (Lesser skill points, lesser BAB, etc.....)

Nopraptor
2010-12-17, 02:31 PM
Oh I see so it's basically a tool to up the CR of monsters\NPC's with PC class levels?

AyeGill
2010-12-17, 02:47 PM
Oh I see so it's basically a tool to up the CR of monsters\NPC's with PC class levels?


not so, its (usually) applied only to the PCs. each PC takes two calles at each level, and takes the best of everything(best saves, best BAB, all class features, etc)

Nopraptor
2010-12-17, 02:49 PM
Doesn't that send balance flying out of the window screaming "I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!!!" ?

AyeGill
2010-12-17, 02:55 PM
Doesn't that send balance flying out of the window screaming "I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!!!" ?

well, yes, but the DM usually ramps up the CR of everything with 2-3 to keep balance.

Fable Wright
2010-12-17, 05:28 PM
Doesn't that send balance flying out of the window screaming "I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!!!" ?

Characters with gestalt are treated as (in most games) characters of a level 1.5*theirs. A level 8 gestalt character is about the same as a level 12 non-gestalt character.

Nopraptor
2010-12-17, 05:43 PM
Then why do it in the first place?

ForzaFiori
2010-12-17, 07:17 PM
Then why do it in the first place?

It makes for some interesting characters. Allows you to really customize your character. For instance, having a psionic character is one thing, having a psion/monk lets you have a more developed character and backstory and whatnot. Not that you couldn't put the same backstory, but the gestalt lets you show the crunch elements to your fluff.

centuriancode
2010-12-17, 09:11 PM
Basically, it just makes things more fun without slaughtering the balance quite as much (provided that the DM is competent).

Any way, back to the questions at hand: can we get final votes on a) deformed voice and body or just voice, and b) orphans saved him or he just likes them?

I vote deformed voice for a) and he just likes them for b).

flabort
2010-12-17, 11:49 PM
My vote?
a)deformed voice
b)They saved him
Any other voters?

Fable Wright
2010-12-17, 11:59 PM
a) Deformed voice that can change into a better-sounding one
b) He just likes them

Ajadea
2010-12-18, 12:11 AM
I think this workshop is an awesome idea, and I can easily envision Draug as being an awesome villain, the sort who definitely deserves repeat performances.

My Votes:

a) Deformed body
b) He just likes kids

centuriancode
2010-12-18, 12:51 AM
Alright, so far we have:

a) Voice: 3 votes (and DMofDarkness' suggestion just makes the whole idea better), Body: 1 vote.

b) They saved him: 1 vote, Just likes kids: 3 votes.

I suggest voting close before the twentieth.

Knaight
2010-12-18, 01:34 AM
a) Deformed body
b) Just Likes kids.

If we start up on more general villains, I have a few that I can export the concepts for quite easily. There was some interest expressed by the thread creator regarding multiple people.

playswithfire
2010-12-18, 08:36 AM
a) Deformed voice and I agree he should be able, with a degree of effort, to improve it if he chooses
b) Just likes kids

I added the necessary sources to use Draug, though adding BoVD would give him some interesting spell selections and the drug agony (liquid pain) could tie in well with the beatings of those who deal to kids.

Silverscale
2010-12-18, 02:41 PM
a) Deformed voice and slightly deformed body (No Quasi Modo here)
b) Just likes kids because of his back-ground

flabort
2010-12-18, 02:52 PM
a) Deformed voice and I agree he should be able, with a degree of effort, to improve it if he chooses

qft, emphasis added.

Nopraptor
2010-12-18, 04:15 PM
a) deformed voice and face
b) just likes kids

centuriancode
2010-12-18, 10:14 PM
OK, so we're at Deformed Voice (with minor additions to body/face) leads Deformed Body 7:2.

Also, Just Likes Kids leads They Saved Him 7:1 (one vote was only about deformity).

Unless there are stupidly large numbers of votes before the end of tonight, it looks like those are our answers.

flabort
2010-12-18, 11:12 PM
I don't see 9 voters, just 8.
Is the 9th voter for the first one where I quoted playswithfire? I'd already voted.
That makes the voice vote 6:2, while the kids issue remains 7:1.

Just to clear that up.

playswithfire
2010-12-22, 09:27 PM
So, we're going with deformed voice with him able to improve it after some amount of effort and no kids saving his life; just something in his experiences/personality makes him like kids.

Any other issues that should be put to a vote?

I'll try to incorporate these results into Draug on Friday morning.

Iituem
2010-12-22, 11:11 PM
Tentative vote:
a) Deformed voice, mild disfigurement (see below)
b) No kids saving him, product of his upbringing and status (see below)


For convenience I'm going to refer to the bugbear as Draug. I'd just like to put in a perspective check, but before that:

On the subject of vocal disfigurement (which is awesome, combined with the general fire disfigurement), consider an alternative to just 'robot voice' that gives the right feeling. Instead of a harsh robotic voice, perhaps the amulet of speech simply creates a normal voice that is incapable of variance in pitch and intonation. Everything he says no matter how angry, impassioned or eloquent, has to come out in the same quiet, measured monotone.

Perspective check time. So the guy's a villain of the criminal type. Why crime over another career? There are a few good (well, not morally) reasons for getting into crime. Perhaps you might have scores to settle. Perhaps you're just greedy and the money is better. Perhaps you're attracted to the lifestyle. Or (particularly with ex-army bandits or enforcers) maybe it's the only thing you know how to do.

If we take Playswithfire's proposed backstory as a base; As a matter of survival, Draug gets into crime on the low end as a lookout, simply because it's the only real source of money in his neighbourhood that doesn't involve him being exploited too badly. Draug proves himself capable enough and gets to know the local thugs, making friends. He gets more involved partly because he's good at it and partly for mixed reasons; more money, keeping in good stead and (importantly) prestige and respect in the neighbourhood.

Why care for children? Well, maybe it's not even as cliched as being an orphan and caring for kids who are like he was. Maybe it's just that he cares about the people in his turf. Obviously not enough to stop selling them drugs or acting as an enforcer, but in his mind he still thinks of them as 'his' people and would want to protect them. Where the kids are concerned, they look up to him as protecting them from the other gangs in other neighbourhoods and he responds, enjoying the attention and taking on the position of a role model.

Draug's honest enough with himself to know that he's not a good man, and that this life will probably wind up with him dead or broken if he doesn't eventually get out of it. He doesn't want kids following in his footsteps because it'll turn out bad for them, and he wants to see kids getting out of the neighbourhood and bettering themselves. Maybe this applies to everyone from his turf, he just doesn't have as much sympathy for adults who've had their chances.

Draug's doing well, and he's aware that both his well-being and his status in the community depend on him maintaining his business. He won't flinch from beating up competitors, intimidation or, as the need permits, guile and diplomacy - after all, he is still a smooth talker. On the other hand, he doesn't like the idea of losing his role model status - he won't do any of the more violent actions around children, and flat out polices his own turf to make sure nothing untoward happens to 'his' kids. If something should, chances are he will unleash his own personal brand of hell on the perpetrators.



More, just because I'm feeling in the mood for writing this stuff up. Continue to treat as a suggestion.

Draug's been doing well, and he's looking to stay well. That might not mean displacing his boss; and he has both an immediate gang boss and the men who run the supply to deal with if that's the case. What it does mean is taking care of competition and other threats. One thing Draug really doesn't like is the involvement of magic in the gang fights - especially wizards.

The last gang war Draug was in, spellcasters got brought into the mix. Apparently the suppliers wanted to push a better deal from their end and hired outside muscle. Things splintered between the different gangs on who accepted it and who didn't and everything broke out into open warfare. During the fights, Draug got hit bad by a fireball from one of the wizards on the suppliers' side and was laid up for almost a week recovering, but the flames burned out half the hair on his face and head; he shaves the other half now to keep it even. Worse, the fire damaged his voice so he could barely speak and had to croak out barely audible instructions in great pain.

Draug helped lead the gang on a return strike, killing many of the enemy gang members and capturing the wizard who scarred him. Before he died, Draug was able to 'convince' the wizard to enchant an amulet to return Draug's voice to him. Unfortunately for the wizard, Draug had a sense of humour and cut out his tongue, had it dried and threaded together and uses it as the thong on which the amulet hangs around his neck. Unfortunately, torturing a wizard into producing a magic item for you is not a reliable assurance of quality; the amulet works but his voice is now a permanent, unwavering monotone. This can at times actually be even more intimidating than his former roaring bellow.

Rob Roy
2010-12-23, 02:08 AM
A) Messed up voice
b) Just likes kids.

Tvtyrant
2010-12-23, 02:11 AM
A) Messed up voice
B) He is teaching urchins to pick pocket, but actually has good intentions. He believes that they will need those skills to survive in life, so he is teaching them the skills to survive without needing to rely on anyone.

centuriancode
2010-12-24, 06:16 AM
Alright, the voting is closed, and it is settled.

a) Draug (a.k.a Darth Bugbard) has a disfigured voice. He can only rasp and wheeze unintelligibly without the use of a magical amulet provided to him by the gnome he works for. With that magical amulet he can replicate normal speech, but in an unvaried and dangerously calm tone. On another setting, it resembles Vader. Go for your life.

b) He was not saved by orphans. He is simply protective of his patch, and clings to the code he has established for himself as part of that, which says that kids are not to be sold drugs/etc. Woe betide whoever forgets that rule. This is part of his strongly Lawful Evil alignment.

Sorry this dragged out longer than expected, real life happened. Painful, but true. :smalltongue:

Nopraptor
2010-12-24, 04:40 PM
so next baddie?
anyone has an idea to develop?

Ajadea
2010-12-26, 02:13 AM
Well...may use it, may not, but it can't hurt.

That said: Go wild on point buy, Gestalt, Tiefling or Half-Fiend Human. Fluff-wise, determined, loyal, slight mothering tendencies (yes really). Should be edging slowly towards BS-insane as levels increase. Must be able to pass as a human. Crunch-wise, one of the sides has to be predominantly a spellcaster of some sort, and the character has to be self-sufficient enough to survive even if you didn't consider spellcasting. In addition, has to be able to wade into battle his/herself.

Statistically, has to have high enough mental statistics/manipulation-related skills (Int/Wis/Cha) to be respected by everything from cults of mind flayers to adult dragons to ice devils without Diplomacy cheese, and to come up with and execute a planned overthrow of one of the strongest world powers currently in existence (the sort of people who can, under great effort, summon astral devas in a pinch in a world where epic legendary battles are like a level 8 Rogue vs a Level 6 Sorcerer, plus a whole bunch of levels 1-3 soldiers)

Most of the supporting characters are written. Wisdom and Charisma are more important than Intelligence, there are other people to deal with that.

centuriancode
2010-12-26, 02:34 AM
Build-A-Baddie Workshop

I was sitting at my desk the other day trying to design a compelling villain for my players, and not just the villain, but all his cronies.

So, that was the initial brief, and Darth Bugbard was
the Bugbear lieutenant of [Arathnos'] Gnomish drug lord

With that in mind, I think the tiefling idea sounds good. After all, what sort of decent recurring villain with an army of minions has only one good lieutenant (even Xykon has the support casters and the demon roaches)? Thus, if Darth Bugbard is the aster of the streets, then the tiefling could be the behind the shadows lieutenant. The one who gets sent to talk to bosses in other cities, the one who explains the state of things to new politicians and police comissioners, the one who takes care of "special" problems. For that, he would need stealth instead of Bugbard's buffing abilities, and magic where Bugbard is a combat bruiser.


Statistically, has to have high enough mental statistics/manipulation-related skills (Int/Wis/Cha) to be respected by everything from cults of mind flayers to adult dragons to ice devils. I advise against making the tiefling quite as powerful as Ajadea suggests, but something deeply terrifying and difficult for the players to deal with will still need a bit of oomph.

Any thoughts?

Ajadea
2010-12-26, 02:59 AM
My original suggestion was designed as a BBEG, following none and having everyone bow to it sort of character.

Redesigned as a drug lord's lieutenant, I would probably change the character to be a foil to Draug. Draug's an enforcer, so a behind-the-scenes manipulater and con-artist works better. In combat, Draug buffs, debuffs, and does melee combat, so a Swift Hunter combo or a beguiler should probably be the other side of the gestalt. Tiefling Factotum/Chameleon//Something, with ranks in Knowledge(local) and maxed out Forgery, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, maybe ranks in Appraise?

Personality-wise, if we have a Hitman with a Heart of Gold (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitmanWithAHeart) mixed with Satisfied Street Rat (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatisfiedStreetRat), we could use this character as a darker foil. I was thinking maybe Dark Action Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkActionGirl) meets Manipulative Bitch (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManipulativeBastard), with a hefty dose of simply not caring about people.

Nopraptor
2010-12-26, 01:54 PM
Ok, sounds good, I suggest a female, for anyone who knows The Night Angel Trilogy I suggest the kind of devision that the sakage has, and have this baddie as an evil momma K

Fable Wright
2010-12-26, 04:49 PM
My original suggestion was designed as a BBEG, following none and having everyone bow to it sort of character.

Redesigned as a drug lord's lieutenant, I would probably change the character to be a foil to Draug. Draug's an enforcer, so a behind-the-scenes manipulater and con-artist works better. In combat, Draug buffs, debuffs, and does melee combat, so a Swift Hunter combo or a beguiler should probably be the other side of the gestalt. Tiefling Factotum/Chameleon//Something, with ranks in Knowledge(local) and maxed out Forgery, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, maybe ranks in Appraise?

Personality-wise, if we have a Hitman with a Heart of Gold (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitmanWithAHeart) mixed with Satisfied Street Rat (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatisfiedStreetRat), we could use this character as a darker foil. I was thinking maybe Dark Action Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkActionGirl) meets Manipulative Bitch (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManipulativeBastard), with a hefty dose of simply not caring about people.

Eh... I don't think this next one should actually be related to Draug. A stand-alone BBEG that isn't currently being used in a campaign offers much more flexibility in creation, and after that we could design lieutenants and dragons (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) (perhaps also the fire-breathing kind, too...) for her, to be added to a campaign later. Xykon only really has one lieutenant (Redcloak), and some other henchmen/advanced minions. Tukiko is nowhere near the lieutenant Redcloak is; if Xykon had another lieutenant like Redcloak, it would just feel like dealing with several different bodyguards, making each one less unique. Perhaps one foil would be okay, but more? Not really.

That said, I like the idea of a manipulative behind-the-scenes BBEG, but still someone who is very obviously noticed. So, perhaps, tiefling vampire duskblade 3/rogue or factotum X//dread necromancer Y, using DMM fell animate & other DMM shenanigans.

flabort
2010-12-27, 11:18 PM
So Adjedea want's... what was it? loyal, slightly mothering part-fiend? Must be self sufficient, and a bit of a scrapper? And then there's her (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkActionGirl) tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManipulativeBastard).
Well, DAG works with self sufficient, and MB works with part fiend. sort of.

But, we need a name for this b****, and more ideas. I'm going to try and find more tropes.

Also, of note, is that she mentioned mothering. "slight tendencies", but mothering. I'll see if I can find an "evil momma" trope or something.

I'll edit when I find tropes. GN. Or when I've given up.

Ajadea
2010-12-27, 11:41 PM
Trope-wise for the incarnation of the Tiefling as a BBEG, I believe the applicable ones would be:

Magnificent Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)/Manipulative Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManipulativeBastard)
Dark Action Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkActionGirl)
Visionary Villain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VisionaryVillain)
The Dead Have Names (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDeadHaveNames) (No 'we have reserves' type tactics unless the character jumps off a slippery slope)

Rob Roy
2010-12-27, 11:47 PM
If a tiefling is our next BBEG then she should have some connection to the planes. Maybe she's smuggling slaves into the markets of Sigil or any other planar city, or smuggling slaves from the Outer Planes (such as Baator) into the Prime Material, taking advantage of how much the average prime would pay for a fiendish or celestial gladiatorial combatant or status symbol.

centuriancode
2010-12-28, 02:15 AM
So, this sets us up with two distinct groups of villains: the first set in a city somewhere (with Draug), and the second somewhere else. Another city-based villain would become boring for players very rapidly, so the extra-planar idea sounds good. Would we be intending either of these to become the focus of the entire campaign as a permanent thing, or just for a while until the main plot returns (or reveals the next tier of evil)?

Fable Wright
2010-12-28, 02:23 AM
So, this sets us up with two distinct groups of villains: the first set in a city somewhere (with Draug), and the second somewhere else. Another city-based villain would become boring for players very rapidly, so the extra-planar idea sounds good. Would we be intending either of these to become the focus of the entire campaign as a permanent thing, or just for a while until the main plot returns (or reveals the next tier of evil)?

This isn't necessarily just for the campaign Draug is in; this could be a BBEG for an entirely different campaign. Just saying.

Ajadea
2010-12-28, 02:27 AM
Considering the plane-spanning, possibly multiplanar web/webs of manipulation that seem to be a big part of wherever the tiefling's character is going, she'd likely be a campaign focus, particularly at higher levels, whether it's as a questgiver(for evil parties) or a BBEG.

flabort
2010-12-28, 10:31 PM
I tried to point out that ajadea mentioned "slight mothering tendancies". they seem to have slipped again.

I'm just saying, If we're making two versions, one to work with/against Draug, and one as a full fledged stand-alone BBEG, the draug-version could hinge off of that small fact.

So: this is dealing with the work-with-draug version, so spoilered
Draug as a friendly mate to the kids, and (we need a name!) as a parental figure. maybe she could even treat Draug his-self as a kid. He'd hate it, of course.
And I finally found a trope! She could be a Mother to her Minions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AFatherToHisMen). I'd like to point out the second paragraph. Goes well with Manipulative bastard, no? except the emotionally detached part. Although she could be the "stern fathermother" version.
Not to mention that she'd have Cute (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdorableEvilMinions) little (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MiniMook) kids (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MascotMook) as minions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mooks). They'd be hanging around Draug all the time, anyways, so why not exploit them? And the only reason Draug hasn't gutted her for exploiting them is because she's, of course, a manipulative b****, right? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceDoorSlam) And, since the kids look up to her as a motherly figure, they don't feel they've been exploited.
This might turn our already (mostly) finished villian (don't tell me you already forgot draug!) into the woobie (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie)...
espesially if we make our new villian (again with not having a name for her!) the starscream (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheStarscream).

Well, "tut, tut, dear Draug. you can be such a child sometimes."
"Hmmph. Not true."
"Don't try to deny it. I know you're upset because I had Julia assassinate <insert notoriously rich person>, when you were going to play 'family' with her. Now, don't forget your axe again today."
"Grooooan. I forgot. It. once. Can't you forget about that?!"

Rob Roy
2010-12-28, 10:39 PM
Why would we be working on a Draug version? Tieflings tend to be involved in planar conspiracies and muggings. Why would she give a toss about some bugbear on the prime?

Ajadea
2010-12-29, 01:15 PM
You have to start somewhere, and scrolls of plane shift are expensive?

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 03:21 PM
You have to start somewhere, and scrolls of plane shift are expensive?
Most tieflings are born on the planes, and there are other ways of getting from plane to plane without plane shift.

AyeGill
2010-12-29, 03:32 PM
Most tieflings are born on the planes, and there are other ways of getting from plane to plane without plane shift.

Why are most tieflings born on the planes? Tieflings are one-quarter fiend if i recall correctly, that means they had one fully human parent, and one half fiends. While half-fiends are probably reasonably common on the planes, and humans may be found, i still think they're most likely to be born on the prime material plane.

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 04:18 PM
Why are most tieflings born on the planes? Tieflings are one-quarter fiend if i recall correctly, that means they had one fully human parent, and one half fiends. While half-fiends are probably reasonably common on the planes, and humans may be found, i still think they're most likely to be born on the prime material plane.
Tieflings are from Planescape, which was core in 2e. back then there were a lot of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, modrons, and aasmir on the planes. If you want your answer look there. For example, they tend to be common on the Outlands because that's where Sigil happens to be. Here and (http://www.planewalker.com/) here. (http://www.mimir.net/main.shtml) Even if we're not going off of Planescape, most of the Planescape stuff has been worked into core. For example The Lady of Pain and Sigil are core in both 3.x and 4e. if we're making a tiefling you should read up on that stuff.

AyeGill
2010-12-29, 04:47 PM
Tieflings are from Planescape, which was core in 2e. back then there were a lot of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, modrons, and aasmir on the planes. If you want your answer look there. For example, they tend to be common on the Outlands because that's where Sigil happens to be. Here and (http://www.planewalker.com/) here. (http://www.mimir.net/main.shtml) Even if we're not going off of Planescape, most of the Planescape stuff has been worked into core. For example The Lady of Pain and Sigil are core in both 3.x and 4e. if we're making a tiefling you should read up on that stuff.

My lack of knowledge proves disastrous once again! :smalleek:

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 04:52 PM
My lack of knowledge proves disastrous once again! :smalleek:
Well when you're making a tiefling it helps to know what was once the most popular 2e setting. :smallwink: But more seriously, Planescape is a fascinating setting, and I recommend reading the fluff, it's just that good. Have fun! :smallbiggrin:

centuriancode
2010-12-30, 02:41 AM
I tried to point out that ajadea mentioned "slight mothering tendancies". they seem to have slipped again.

I'm just saying, If we're making two versions, one to work with/against Draug, and one as a full fledged stand-alone BBEG, the draug-version could hinge off of that small fact.

So: this is dealing with the work-with-draug version, so spoilered
Draug as a friendly mate to the kids, and (we need a name!) as a parental figure. maybe she could even treat Draug his-self as a kid. He'd hate it, of course.
And I finally found a trope! She could be a Mother to her Minions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AFatherToHisMen). I'd like to point out the second paragraph. Goes well with Manipulative bastard, no? except the emotionally detached part. Although she could be the "stern fathermother" version.
Not to mention that she'd have Cute (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdorableEvilMinions) little (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MiniMook) kids (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MascotMook) as minions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mooks). They'd be hanging around Draug all the time, anyways, so why not exploit them? And the only reason Draug hasn't gutted her for exploiting them is because she's, of course, a manipulative b****, right? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceDoorSlam) And, since the kids look up to her as a motherly figure, they don't feel they've been exploited.
This might turn our already (mostly) finished villian (don't tell me you already forgot draug!) into the woobie (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie)...
espesially if we make our new villian (again with not having a name for her!) the starscream (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheStarscream).

Well, "tut, tut, dear Draug. you can be such a child sometimes."
"Hmmph. Not true."
"Don't try to deny it. I know you're upset because I had Julia assassinate <insert notoriously rich person>, when you were going to play 'family' with her. Now, don't forget your axe again today."
"Grooooan. I forgot. It. once. Can't you forget about that?!"

I love it. It has just the right mix of cheesiness and trope to be excellent flavour base, without being so heavy it becomes cliché.


Most tieflings are born on the planes, and there are other ways of getting from plane to plane without plane shift.

True, but they don't have to be, and the slightly mothering thing has too many possibilities not to be used. You could even turn any fiendish tongues the tiefling might konw into something that sounds suspiciously like Yiddish, which would perfect the manipulating/mothering combination.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 02:46 AM
True, but they don't have to be, and the slightly mothering thing has too many possibilities not to be used. You could even turn any fiendish tongues the tiefling might know into something that sounds suspiciously like Yiddish, which would perfect the manipulating/mothering combination.
This sounds so awesome that I retract my previous statement and now think that we should do two versions. I still however, maintain that the standalone one should be a planar villain, operating exclusively off the Material. She should then be incredibly biased against Primes. Planar Yiddish ahoy!Corrections in bold.

Fable Wright
2010-12-30, 04:22 AM
I think just a minor connection to the planes would be a better idea. I still stand by an undead army concept, possibly with plans to create a large number of connections between the material plane and the negative energy plane to fuel the army. One way to tie in to the abyss is to make it so that she has demons with animate dead in her employ, possibly through planar binding, and at the end of the duration she kills the demons and animates them. However, she does this while posing as a completely different mage each time through the disguise skill, and possibly with the feat from Cityscape that makes you change the apparant origin point of a spell, and a Mirage Arcana spell to make it look like a different lair every time. In this way, demons are getting enraged at the material plane, and spellcasters in general, and start attacking everything. This is a fringe benefit of her overall plan to connect the material and negative energy planes, though, which she uses to good effect. A build idea would be a Dread Necromancer 14//Duskblade 3/Cleric 2/Boneknight 9 with Arcane Disciple (Summoning (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Summoning)) and Battlecaster, the Deathbound and Evil domains, and the normal tiefling racial stat modifiers replaced with with Aasimir stat modifiers. Fluff maybe being her having a succubus as the fiendish ancestor, which, mixed with human blood and good-natured parents, gave her better mental stats and a motherly attitude.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 04:27 AM
If we're meddling with the normal tiefling stats then we should at least replace the Outsider(Native) with Humanoid(Human,Planar). I never really understood why they were Outsiders in the first place.

Fable Wright
2010-12-30, 04:46 AM
If we're meddling with the normal tiefling stats then we should at least replace the Outsider(Native) with Humanoid(Human,Planar). I never really understood why they were Outsiders in the first place.

Well, there's two things with that. First, that opens up the character to being effected by lower-level spells and abilities, such as Hold Person, and the like. Outsiders are immune to that. On the other hand, by making them outsiders, we run the risk of some smart-alec PC repeatedly using Greater Planar Binding to eventually summon <BBEG name here>, and then using magical traps and such while <BBEG name here> can't do anything. I personally think that it's a decent trade-off, but that's just me.

AyeGill
2010-12-30, 04:58 AM
planar handbook has lesser planetouched for LA +0 tieflings/aasimar that become humanoids with the planetouched subtype.

Fable Wright
2010-12-30, 05:27 AM
planar handbook has lesser planetouched for LA +0 tieflings/aasimar that become humanoids with the planetouched subtype.

Which has the disadvantages of both outsiders and humanoids. The only benefit to that would be to the players; the only difference between a tiefling and a lesser tiefling is that the tieflinghas LA. No increase in CR or anything. That is, IMO, the worst way to handle this. This is the BBEG, and <BBEG's name here> shouldn't be affected by just about everything the players throw at them. Just saying.

AyeGill
2010-12-30, 06:58 AM
damn, thought there was a CR boost on tieflings. nevermind, then.

Nopraptor
2010-12-30, 08:08 AM
Hey guys, sorry for the long absence
Well, here's my to cents: an undead army sound's good and the whole mothering thing can tie in well with that to make a Miko (was that her name? [the necromancer from OOTS with mismatched eyes]) and the whole connecting between the negative energy plane with the prime thing is an awesome evil plan

Fable Wright
2010-12-30, 08:27 AM
an undead army sound's good and the whole mothering thing can tie in well with that to make a Miko (was that her name? [the necromancer from OOTS with mismatched eyes])

That would be Tsukiko, not Miko. Miko was the (ex)paladin. That was the first thing I thought of, too... weird.

Nopraptor
2010-12-31, 06:54 AM
Thanks for the correction and I guess that great minds think alike :smallbiggrin:

centuriancode
2010-12-31, 09:24 PM
So what that turns into is a demonic necromancer tiefling that acts like Tsukiko (through as yet with less of the fetish side), and is actually an Aasimir but for the purposes of fluff is still allegedly descended from a succubus? Potentially with Planar Yiddish?

Sounds cool. Anything else we need to figure out for fluff?

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 09:35 PM
So what that turns into is a demonic necromancer tiefling that acts like Tsukiko (through as yet with less of the fetish side), and is actually an Aasimir but for the purposes of fluff is still allegedly descended from a succubus? Potentially with Planar Yiddish?

Sounds cool. Anything else we need to figure out for fluff?
Don't think so, but we should give the tiefling the tiefling INT bonus and figure out what classes she has crunch wise. I would think dread necromancer/conjurer, because the wizard specialization for necromancy sucks.

Fable Wright
2011-01-01, 12:26 AM
A build idea would be a Dread Necromancer 14//Duskblade 3/Cleric 2/Boneknight 9 with Arcane Disciple (Summoning (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Summoning)) and Battlecaster, the Deathbound and Evil domains, and the normal tiefling racial stat modifiers replaced with with Aasimir stat modifiers.
But why would she have levels of conjurer? Summoning walls, webs, and grease isn't exactly what this character would want to do. This build gives Maximum Undead Goodness. (Seriously. Also gives access to planar binding through the Arcane Disciple (Summoning), can cast arcane spells in medium armor, has epic boneknight armor, has access to Desecrate, etc.). Also, consider giving her a Minor Ring of Spell Storing to circumvent the material component for Animate Dead, and possibly a higher-level spell storing ring for other undead creating spells and Awaken Undead. As well as a Ring of Wizardry and taking the Arcane Strike feat, to give a use to all of those spell slots.

Rob Roy
2011-01-01, 12:31 AM
But why would she have levels of conjurer? Summoning walls, webs, and grease isn't exactly what this character would want to do. This build gives Maximum Undead Goodness. (Seriously. Also gives access to planar binding through the Arcane Disciple (Summoning), can cast arcane spells in medium armor, has epic boneknight armor, has access to Desecrate, etc.). Also, consider giving her a Minor Ring of Spell Storing to circumvent the material component for Animate Dead, and possibly a higher-level spell storing ring for other undead creating spells and Awaken Undead. As well as a Ring of Wizardry and taking the Arcane Strike feat, to give a use to all of those spell slots.
I remember you posting that, I just couldn't find it at the time in order to quote, as I had to leave soon after that. Conjurer? Gate negative energy elemental to buff undead and kill things was my line of reasoning, but I like what you said better. I still think you should give her the tieflings INT bonus, and have the rest of her modifiers be aasmir modifiers.

Fable Wright
2011-01-01, 12:34 AM
I remember you posting that, I just couldn't find it at the time in order to quote, as I had to leave soon after that. Conjurer? Gate negative energy elemental to buff undead and kill things was my line of reasoning, but I like what you said better. I still think you should give her the tieflings INT bonus, and have the rest of her modifiers be aasmir modifiers.

On the other hand, absolutely none of the tiefling's abilities use Int at all... both of her (major) spellcaster levels require Charisma and Wisdom. Both of those stats are Needed. Desperately. She could still have a high Int, but she really needs Wis and Charisma.

Rob Roy
2011-01-01, 12:36 AM
On the other hand, absolutely none of the tiefling's abilities use Int at all... both of her (major) spellcaster levels require Charisma and Wisdom. Both of those stats are Needed. Desperately. She could still have a high Int, but she really needs Wis and Charisma.
True, all I'm saying is give her the INT modifier in addition to the aasmir modifiers.

centuriancode
2011-01-02, 01:16 AM
Since she's a BBEG, why not give her extra bonuses? It just makes her more interesting/difficult for the players.

[edit:] Oh, and could I get a list of the books Dread Necromancer, Duskblade, and Bone Knight can be found in? I know I have them because I've seen them before, I've just temporarily misplaced them.

Nopraptor
2011-01-02, 12:38 PM
well I'm not much of a cruncher so I'll leave you guys to that stuff.
anyone has an idea about her appearance? (talented artists her my plea!)

Fable Wright
2011-01-02, 01:10 PM
Since she's a BBEG, why not give her extra bonuses? It just makes her more interesting/difficult for the players.

[edit:] Oh, and could I get a list of the books Dread Necromancer, Duskblade, and Bone Knight can be found in? I know I have them because I've seen them before, I've just temporarily misplaced them.

Dread Necro is from Heroes of Horror, Duskblade from PHB 2 and Bone Knight from Five Nations.

centuriancode
2011-01-02, 11:39 PM
Thanks a bunch, I'll look through them A.S.A.P and see how what it looks like. I think the domains are good, though.

Serpentine
2011-01-06, 02:03 AM
Could I get some help with a villain in here? He's somewhat connected to a particular city - Zena du Fulihal, City of Mammals, a place full of all the weird furry races - but it should be easy enough to drop him anywhere. He's a low epic level Rakshasa Sorcerer who controls the city with an iron but subtle and shadowy fist. Tends to concentrate on manipulation and people-controlling, but has plenty of lethality.
So, watchathink? Wanna help me build him?

Fable Wright
2011-01-06, 07:32 AM
Could I get some help with a villain in here? He's somewhat connected to a particular city - Zena du Fulihal, City of Mammals, a place full of all the weird furry races - but it should be easy enough to drop him anywhere. He's a low epic level Rakshasa Sorcerer who controls the city with an iron but subtle and shadowy fist. Tends to concentrate on manipulation and people-controlling, but has plenty of lethality.
So, watchathink? Wanna help me build him?

What kind of people controlling? By gathering a number of followers, a la thrallherd or leadership, by pitting the different people against each other, or by just causing the people to follow him whether they want him to or not? How visible is he? Does he run things from behind the scenes? Is he visibly in charge of the city? We need details.

Serpentine
2011-01-06, 09:24 AM
Hokay, if there's interest, here's the deal:

The City of Mammals is a disorganised plains city build on a large hill from the top of which a spring wells up and out, watering the lower city and feeding its wells. The city is built on a strict hierarchy based on race and wealth, with representatives from the “superior” races having greater say on the council. At the moment, the very last say and real power on the council belongs to a bobcat-like rakshasa called Capac.

There was another Rakshasa on the council under Capac's control, but the party tried to interrogate him and Capac Power Word Deathed him. More on that later.

He currently runs things from the background. There are actually several rivals in the city, though. He's powerful, but he's not the most powerful around. His chief rival is probably a Jackal Lord, but there's others. Point being, he has had to and still has to work hard to maintain his position. And he does it in secret.

On the other hand, thanks to his position he has near infinite resources. At the point the party has... come to his attention, he has been running a scheme whereby his minions have been robbing passing adventurers of magic items. Some he keeps, some he passes on to his faithful or as bribes, others he keeps around 'til he finds a use for them. So, basically, he's loaded. He can have access to pretty much any item I want him to.

Capac isn't the Big Bad Evil Guy of this campaign, although I don't mind if they decide to switch campaigns and strive to defeat him. He is meant to be impossible, or close to it, to defeat with the party as they are. Maybe if they do a veritable crap-load of planning and get a whole lot of backup, they could do it. But not in a one-on-one fight.
My original plan was that the party would be killed by one of Capac's minions (see below) and then resurrected by Capac to be pressganged into a side-quest. If they beat the minion, they'd kill her, take the item she stole back, and move on with the main plot. No biggie. As it turns out, though, they managed to take her alive, interrogate her, find out about Capac, spent the next ten minutes blasting her in the face with acid (long story short, I screwed up an item) and then decided they were gonna take it all the way to the top. For the record, they've had 4 people tell them that the guy at the top is very, very bad news.
I intend/expect that the party will either run away, get captured or get killed. I'm undecided on whether Capac should aim to kill or capture - kill and resurrect results in more dramatic dialogue ("I went to a lot of expense to bring you back. If you don't perform this task for me, I shall expect a refund". Something like that) but it also might seem more cheap or railroady or something, and there's also the whole "reluctant soul" thing, although I'm willing to homebrew some sort of ritual to allow someone to force a soul back to life. Any thoughts on that?
Speaking of railroading, Capac is extremely powerful, but he's also extremely arrogant. He won't really give the party any choice, but he also assumes that they wouldn't dare double-cross him. They may have some opportunity to escape before they set out on the task, or they can perform the task and scheme against him later, or they can pretend to perform the task but deceive him, or they can recruit help, and so on.
The task will involve being sent to another city - City of Birds, probably, dominated by Raptorans and others, or possibly the City of Reptiles, mostly kobolds and lizardfolk and a healthy portion of yuan-ti - to retrieve an item desired by Capac. I'm not sure what that item will be. Capac will tell them, honestly, that it isn't magical, that taking it won't hurt anyone, that he won't be able to kill anyone with it, that sort of thing. It will be something more a matter of pride, that will only hurt the pride of the owners to have it stolen, but will hurt that pride a lot. I'm thinking it will be some relic of a long-dead hero, an urn of ashes or a piece of bone or somesuch, possibly someone who once vexed Capac. Maybe he intends to force-resurrect the person and do horrible things to them, but I think his most immediate concern will be the humiliation of the owners.

For generic use, he's pretty much your typical sinister-shadow-behind-the-throne fellow. He's a blackmailer, a manipulator, a briber and a schemer.

At this point, items, spell and feat selection are the main things I'd like help with. I've decided to give him 5 levels of Sorcerer, 5 of Mindspy and 2 Mindbender. He will focus on spells that will let him control and/or manipulate people (either directly or otherwise), and destructive and/or death- and pain-dealing spells. I'm aiming for CR 25ish. The party consists of 7 level 13 characters (if anyone's keeping track of other discussions, that's one of the reasons why I intended to get rid of my DMPC...). However, I recently put them against a level 16 minion of Capac's and her two underlings, and they absolutely pulverised her, in large part thanks to Irresistable Frigging Dance. So I need to make sure that there really is no way they could beat this guy in a fair fight right now - maybe later, but not now.

Oh yeah, the Word of Death thing. As it turns out, he can't actually cast 9th level spells at this point, not if I give him levels in Mindspy. However, it's reasonable that he would have access to scrolls, wands or other items that can do it. Is it easy enough that he'd be able to use them, and are there any in particular anyone could suggest?

Hrm. There's rather a lot there, isn't there... Anything else?

Fable Wright
2011-01-06, 02:33 PM
My first impression of what you should do is this: When the party goes charging into the Rakshasa's private abode and tries to attack him, he's sitting at a table sipping tea or what not and invites them to a chat as if they weren't wielding weapons, broke down his door, etc.. Following this, if they continue to attack him, he uses Forcecage on them to get them to stop, and then proceeds about talking to them with a job offer. Throughout this, he casts Dominate Person (possibly with an Arcane Thesis, and Rapid Metamagic while he stills and silents it) on them repeatedly throughout the conversation. He also might use mass suggestion on them during the chat. Eventually, if they are not immune to enchantments, they will be under his control, and you don't need to deal with the annoying issue of resurrecting the party. If the party uses an antimagic field, possibly equip him with a ways to get around that. One might be through the use of bodyguards throughout his estate to arrest the PCs if they don't act reasonable. That's my take on it, anyways.

Serpentine
2011-01-06, 07:57 PM
I was thinking of having him used Improved Invisibility (or maybe just a Ring of Invisibility, while he's talking), and an illusion of himself at least to start with. So he could have an illusion of himself sipping the tea while he lounges off to the side.
At least one of the characters is, apparently, immune to enchantments from Lawful creatures. But he's also the most... morally questionable character, so he might be more likely to go along of his own free will. Really gotta check out his character sheet, he keeps, shall we say, "sitting" on everything I throw at them :smallsigh:

My main problem with capture is that I really wanted to use the "refund for your resurrection" line, but I should probably let it go :smallfrown:

Any thoughts on equipment, spells and feats?

Fable Wright
2011-01-06, 08:36 PM
Equipment? Probably a staff of Enchantment and a Staff of Power, to start. Golems can be a nightmare for spellcasters, and tough on the melee fighters. They would make for decent body- and house- guards. Especially the drakestone golem from Draconomicon; it had paralyzing breath and was designed to look like a statue, which certainly falls within this character's ideals (i.e., take them alive). There should be a Scrying mirror, as well, and possibly some other items for keeping tabs on people. I remember from somewhere (not sure where though... I think it might have been a dragon magazine?) there was a small beholder statuette that had 10 masterwork daggers with eyestalks as the hilt (Each worth 450gp apiece). By touching the central eye of the statuette, you could scry within 30ft of any of the daggers at will. In addition, each of the magical daggers register as non-magical, as the magic aura spell, if I recall. Several of those (if you can find the source, tell me) would be enough to keep tabs on pretty much every major character in the city, aside from him. I think it cost either 4,500gp or 45,000gp, but it would be something useful. Possibly something he can plant on someone. Another bit of gear would definitely be metamagic rods. As a sorcerer, he needs his feats, and applying metamagic without increasing the casting time is a major bonus. A ring of spell turning should also be used, as the Rakshasa will be on the lookout for dispel magic and other goodies the PC caster will throw at him. Other things such as a Marvelous Pigments could be used to dot the household, detailing the Rakshasa's personal hobbies.

Serpentine
2011-01-06, 11:26 PM
Oooo, those are all good ideas. Especially the golem one - I didn't think of that. Now, if you were an extremely vain and arrogant sorcerous cat-man who lives at the height of the feline part of town controlling the council to advance the interests of both yourself and the other felids, what big hard thing would you have decorating your home...?
The beholder-thing sounds pretty good, too. The Rakshasa counsellor we accidentally got killed had a staff. I haven't decided what it was, yet, but the players took it, and it would fit well enough to have that staff given to him by Capac and for it to have something scryey incorporated into it.