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Strormer
2010-12-16, 01:55 PM
My campaign setting has a high degree of Fey involvement and I always encourage players to play as Fey, however, the LA is simply too crazy on most fey (or even non-playable at all) for the PC's to really want to do this.
What I'm looking for is tips on how to create LA +0 or LA +1 playable races out of core 3.5 Monster Manual races. My example has been the Nymph since it has a good example of crazy broken abilities and stat adjustments which would need to be fixed in order to play it.

What I was thinking was giving a +4 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con, keeping only the Stunning Glance and Unearthly Grace abilities and the Swim skill bonus, using FC: Druid. for a LA +0

If enough people think this is fair then I'm going to keep creating races like this. If I'm over/underpowering anything, please let me know.
Thanks so much.

gkathellar
2010-12-16, 02:39 PM
Let's see if I can break this down point by point.


-2 Con: That's a pretty hefty penalty.
-2 Wis: Ooh, another save reduced.
+4 Cha: Well, I guess they could be pretty tough sorcerers/bards/paladins, but charisma is the weakest stat, I guess that's okay.
Stunning Glance: At will stun with a Charisma-based DC holy crap.
Unearthly Grace: Charisma to saves and AC oh my god this is the best sorcerer race this better have a pretty high—
LA+0: What is this I don't even


So, no, I don't really think it's balanced as is. At the bare minimum, Unearthly Grace needs to be turned down or probably changed completely/dropped outright.

Strormer
2010-12-16, 02:44 PM
Well, I was hoping that unearthly grace would balance out with the -2 con, -2 wis since two saves are nerfed by it, but it is quite strong. how about this then...

+4 Cha, -2 Con, -4 Wis
Stunning Glance 1/day
Unearthly Grace (but not on AC)
LA +0

gkathellar
2010-12-16, 02:48 PM
That's better, certainly. I'm not sure it meets the exact balance point for LA+0 (which is humans, as far as I'm concerned). But it might be there, and it's probably not above LA+1 ... maybe you should make Stunning Glance a scaling ability (ergo raptoran flight), have it start with Daze and move up to Stun, then multiple uses per day?

Zeta Kai
2010-12-16, 04:29 PM
So, no, I don't really think it's balanced as is. At the bare minimum, Unearthly Grace needs to be turned down or probably changed completely/dropped outright.

I disagree. Compared to what dwarves or humans get, It's not really all that powerful. I think it would make for a very weak LA+1 race, so I'd say that LA+0 is fine. The litmus test is this: Are all the benefits combined equal to a level in a class? Does it compare favorably to a class level, with everything that entails: a hit die, a possible BAB boost, save bonuses, possible spell level progression, & other class features? Measured against all that, these bonuses aren't impressive, & therefore LA+0 is appropriate.

gkathellar
2010-12-16, 04:40 PM
Except that you need a minimum of two class levels to nab charisma to saves and AC, assuming PrCs which you have to meet requirements for, or three four base class levels and a feat - and in almost all those cases, you would need light or no armor to get Cha to AC. That seems as if it's clearly LA+1-2.

Strormer
2010-12-16, 05:09 PM
Alright, in an attempt to reduce the power of the Nymph, while still retaining the flavor and a degree of the unique capabilities, I've gone with this.

Nymph
Fey type
+4 Cha, -2 Con, -4 Wis
Medium Size
Speed: 30ft.
Dazzling Beauty (Su): Nymphs are exquisitely beautiful creatures and can, as a standard action, make a gaze attack in a 30ft. cone. All targets must succeed a will save or be dazzled for 2d4 rounds. The save DC is 10 + the Nymph’s Charisma bonus.
Unearthly Grace (Su): Nymphs are beings of extraordinary grace and so gain a bonus to all saves equal to their charisma modifier.
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Bonus Languages: Common, Terran, Auran, Aquan, Elven.
Favored Class: Druid
Level Adjustment: +0

I've also begun a few more fey based on this same balance level. I agree that the Dwarf is on par with these, though the Dwarf is the highest end of LA +0 I believe. I'd like to keep them on par with Elves if possible. That is to say I want them to be strong, but only in the right situations. (After all, an elf swordsman wizard fighting an enchanter is broken as hell, but an elf fighter fighting an evoker is not.)

Centaur
Fey type
+2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Cha, -4 Int
Large Size: -1 AC, -1 Atk, -4 Stealth, +4 Grapple, lifting/carrying limits double normal
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Spd: 50 ft.
+3 Natural Armor
Endurance as the feat
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Terran, Aquan, Goblin, Gnome.
Favored Class: Ranger
Level Adjustment +0

Dryad
Fey type
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -4 Wis
Medium Size
Speed: 40 ft.
+1 Natural Armor
Meld with Tree (Su): Dryads are supernaturally connected to trees and can meld into any tree her size or larger just as the spell Meld into Stone Cast by a Cleric of the Dryad’s CL.
Treewalk (Su): A Dryad with a wisdom score of at least 15 can use Tree Stride as the Druid spell a number of times per day equal to her wisdom modifier as a spell-like ability.
Tree Dependency (Su): Dryads, due to their supernatural connection to trees, cannot venture far from wooded areas. A Dryad who journeys more than 30 miles from trees takes 1d4 Con damage every 6 hours. A Dryad reduced to 0 Constitution in this way dies and her body withers away. All that remains is a seed which, if planted, grows into a mighty tree with a new Dryad within it. Whole forests have begun this way.
Favored Class: Druid
Level Adjustment: +0

The Centaur is merely a fey version of the MM3.5 centaur with weaker bonuses to reduce the LA. The Dryad is a completely new version of Dryad with a connection to trees in general rather than a specific tree. I'm a little concerned about giving both Meld with Tree and Treewalk to a race, but the Tree Dependency feature could be extremely limiting to an adventuring Dryad. The balance of the Dryad and the playability of a Tree Dependent creature concerns me.

Strormer
2010-12-16, 08:21 PM
A few additional fey for your consumption...

Aranellan Elf
Fey type
+2 Dex, -2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft.
Immunity to sleep spells and effects, +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Low-Light Vision
Elven Weapon Proficiency: longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, composite shortbow.
+2 Listen, Search, Spot
Detect Secret Doors 5 ft.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan
Favored Class: Sorcerer

Satyr
Fey type
+2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Cha, -4 Wis
Medium Size
Speed: 40 ft.
Low-Light Vision
Natural Weapons: Head Butt (1d6/x2)
+4 Perform (Pan Pipes)
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Gnome
Favored Class: Bard

Sprite
Fey type
+2 Dex, +2 Int, +4 Cha, -4 Wis
Small Size: (+1 AC, +1 Attack, +4 Stealth, -4 Grapple, Lifting/Carrying ¾ normal)
Speed: 20 ft., Fly 60 ft. (average)
Low-Light Vision
+2 Perception
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Gnome
Favored Class: Sorcerer

Will-O-Wisp
Fey type
+2 Dex, -4 Str, -2 Con
Small Size: (+1 AC, +1 Attack, +4 Stealth, -4 Grapple, Lifting/Carrying ¾ normal)
Speed: Fly 30 ft. (perfect)
+2 racial saving throw bonus against spells and spell-like abilities
Energy Resistance 5 against Shock damage
Darkvision 60 ft.
Invisibility 1/day as spell cast by a Sorcerer of the Will-O-Wisp’s CL
Luminous Body (Su): A Will-O-Wisp gives off a faint glow any time it is not invisible. It provides shadowy illumination out to 20 ft.
Favored Class: Sorcerer

Piper (Half-Satyr/Half-Elf)
Fey type
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis
Medium Size
Speed: 40 ft.
Low-Light Vision
+2 Perform (pan pipes)
+2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Elven, Bonus Langauges: Common, Terran, Gnome
Favored Class: Bard

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-16, 08:50 PM
a negative to wisdom doesn't make much sense, fey are very in tune creatures with strong personalities and very sharp minds, though not necessarily book smart. That's the way i see, just my 2 cents.

Strormer
2010-12-16, 09:44 PM
a negative to wisdom doesn't make much sense, fey are very in tune creatures with strong personalities and very sharp minds, though not necessarily book smart. That's the way i see, just my 2 cents.

Y'know, I had thought about that, but aside from Con, nothing else seems like something a fey would lose, and since fey are supposed to be flighty and chaotic creatures I figured a Wis penalty would make more players willing to try them out than a Con loss. After all, a con loss on a race that leans most towards casters just sucks if you do it too often.

Also...damn, I just lost the game.

Also, The Game, That is All.

EdroGrimshell
2010-12-16, 10:02 PM
Y'know, I had thought about that, but aside from Con, nothing else seems like something a fey would lose, and since fey are supposed to be flighty and chaotic creatures I figured a Wis penalty would make more players willing to try them out than a Con loss. After all, a con loss on a race that leans most towards casters just sucks if you do it too often.

Str, Int, Con, some even do have a Wis penalty, but a Wis Penalty doesn't fit the Nymph or Dryad, maybe Int or Str


Also...damn, I just lost the game.

The game ended last year

Zeta Kai
2010-12-17, 06:30 AM
The game ended last year

Oh, thank god. It had gone on way too long. We can all rest peaceful now that it's over, never having to worry about losing it again. :smalltongue:

gkathellar
2010-12-17, 07:58 AM
I just won the contest!

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-17, 05:32 PM
Your Will'o'wisp version if very powerful and with perfect flight from level 1, you're looking at a headache there. Also, I find the idea of them wielding swords intruiging as a DM but oddly hillarious as an artist.

I have a pair of PC races in my Fae-o-matic thread below, one of which was a request for the Will-o-wisp.

Lateral
2010-12-17, 05:55 PM
Speaking of the Ghostlight, what is the Siren feat? It says they get it as a bonus feat, but I can't find it.

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-17, 06:23 PM
stupid copy-pasting errors...

Look in the Gwyllion entry and i'll paste it over in the meantime...

Edit: Fixed