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View Full Version : Get those thinking caps on! Item creation XP loss, how to remove? All Ideas Welcome.



Dark Kerman
2010-12-19, 06:38 PM
Hey, hey chaps, I was wondering, would any of you have a good idea as to how a mechanic could be developed to circumnavigate the XP loss issue when a magic user makes an item? I find that though it does make sense, it results in your groups magic caster taking level lag, and still having to pay the price of the items. :smallmad: Would appreciate ideas. :smallbiggrin:

The Mentalist
2010-12-19, 09:47 PM
Mongoose did a nice little something with their Mythic system in Magic Item Creation, Part of the Encyclopedia Arcane. Fax Celestis has a good system too, one revolving around ability burn.

Edit: http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Experience_Buffer This one is the one I mis-attributed to Fax

Human Paragon 3
2010-12-19, 10:15 PM
I've always been fan of having the item creation proccess require rare items that the crafter needs to track down, sometimes by going on a quest. It makes the items created more personal, you don't have to track XP or lose XP, but instead you trade away someting precious (your time) and hopefully have some fun doing it.

In a bery structured game with a really tight plot that revolves around timed events, this may not e a good thing, especially if your players don't have the patience for side quests. You can have the crafter instead have to track down a seller for the item, make a series of research skill checks and crafting checks to make the items, hire a group of adventurers to do the dirty work for them, apply for a grant from the local wizard tower, trade an item or favor etc. Your imagination is the limit, and you can make it as hard or easy as you think it should be.

Dark Kerman
2010-12-22, 04:16 PM
Good idea, perhaps there could be a form of gem or some such, that would allow for xp burn? Like (If you have ever played Neverwinter Nights) A rogue stone was used to power an artifact to teleport you, a similar idea could be so that the energy from the stone goes to enchanting the item?

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-22, 06:53 PM
We have used ability point loss for this: one per 5k of items produced is brutal but it REALLY ups the heroic feel of convincing that golden hearted dwarf smith to make said item for you.

Dark Kerman
2010-12-22, 07:09 PM
Was that permanent ability loss?

Dark Kerman
2010-12-22, 07:34 PM
Is that ability loss permanent? A temporary loss might be a good supplement.

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-23, 01:22 PM
Sorry, wrote that wrong, we used hit point loss

Permanent loss of hit points from your total, no way to restore it.

DaragosKitsune
2010-12-23, 11:33 PM
Sorry, wrote that wrong, we used hit point loss

Permanent loss of hit points from your total, no way to restore it.

Didn't 1st Edition have that method?

Dark Kerman
2010-12-24, 01:58 PM
Wow, sounds tough. :P You could have a mage with the fanciest gear...
And one hit point :S XD

wiimanclassic
2010-12-26, 01:29 AM
Wow, sounds tough. :P You could have a mage with the fanciest gear...
And one hit point :S XD

That is why you keep the meat shield around and act like artillery.

Dark Kerman
2010-12-26, 12:47 PM
That is why you keep the meat shield around and act like artillery.

Never a truer word spoken. :smalltongue:

Siosilvar
2010-12-26, 04:03 PM
Didn't 1st Edition have that method?

One point of Constitution per Permanency spell cast.

Dark Kerman
2010-12-30, 04:37 PM
Permanent damage?

Mulletmanalive
2010-12-31, 05:58 AM
It could be "restored" with Restoration but this was like having a temporary point because your System Shock, Ressurection Survival and so on remained down and you would still expire after your last permenancy left you with nothing but restored points...

Dark Kerman
2010-12-31, 10:15 AM
I see. Perhaps a way to get round XP loss is temporary stat loss equivalent to one point to however much XP it would have costed. You could make it so that the stat lost was somehow linked with the enchantment placed? I.e if it is a bracer of armour or of endurance, you temporarily lose constitution? It then takes the normal number of weeks to replenish.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-04, 02:05 AM
Living Greyhawk ignores XP costs and just has you pay 70% in raw materials. (Which exactly matches 5 gp per 1 xp, like NPCs charge for spells.)

The nice way to pitch it to players is, "I'm getting rid of the XP costs of magic items you craft, but the penalty for that is that you have to pay 70% the market price instead of 50%. If you wanna waive that, you'll have to hunt down specific crafting components."

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-04, 05:43 AM
Not exactly what you're looking for, but this web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) gives a way for
other party members to transfer the XP for items to the caster, so people lag for their own items.

I like the point drain idea, might use that in the future.

Dark Kerman
2011-01-07, 03:13 AM
@Thomar_of_Uointer
That's a cool idea, I mean, I don't know if I could get my DM to go for it, but it does sound an idea. Thanks :P

@Kobold-Bard
*Cough: Deekin :smalltongue:*
That's is really useful actually, I was talking with my DM as to whether my wizard could in fact get a spell that drained XP from a *willing* party member, but simply for the purpose of crafting. I might want to put in-game research into an aggressive form that can take it from unwilling enemies. :smallcool:

Cespenar
2011-01-07, 03:19 AM
In a tight-scheduled campaign (preparing against an invasion, etc.) I would think of actually removing the XP loss altogether, since the time would act as a cost itself.

NichG
2011-01-07, 03:29 AM
In a semi-time-limited campaign, you could have it consume the spell slots involved in making the item for a period equal to the crafting time after the item is completed. Add multipliers of this time increment as desired. Alternately, for a more gamist approach, make it 'the slots are consumed for X number of games after the item is created'.

For things with weird prerequisite spells, this might end up being oddly weighted though (e.g. a +5 weapon and a +1 weapon have the same prereq, so consume the same slot). If that bothers you, perhaps make it so that a number of spell levels worth of slots equal to the market price divided by 2000 are consumed (so enchanting a +2 weapon would consume one 4th level slot or two 2nd level slots or four 1st level slots for 8 days); again, adjust to taste.

pwykersotz
2011-01-07, 02:25 PM
I created a system for my game that handled this decently, but I don't know if it would work for anyone else. Basically, it eliminated the need for the Crafting Feats and using XP to craft, but in order to craft anything you needed to "level" in the ability. It takes 10% of the XP needed to reach a new level to hit a new level in crafting, scaling equally with Character level. Also, your crafting level can't be any more than Character level.

The premise was that once you gained the ability to make a certain item by investing your XP into levels, only gold and time mattered. Naturally cost and time rise sharply with potency, so the PC's can't just randomly whip up a whole slew of uber potions/items.

If you want, I can post a template. It's rough, but easily modifiable depending on what you're looking for.

Dark Kerman
2011-01-10, 01:56 PM
:smalltongue:If you could post that template, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I like the spell slot idea, as that would seem sensible, i.e, you can see where the energy came from to make it.