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The Mentalist
2010-12-21, 12:47 AM
I'm working on a project for a necromancer character of mine who doesn't just animate skeletons and such also but takes them apart and uses them for things like...

1. Catapult

or enchants them with extra spells to get

2. Zombie Torch (Permanently on fire zombie)
3. Everchattering Skulls (Sings with a +1 to the Perform check)

I'm however always looking for more ideas so I figured I'd ask the playground.

Hat-Trick
2010-12-21, 12:53 AM
Stick a Zombie head on a stick and have an interesting reach weapon.

Lord_Gareth
2010-12-21, 12:55 AM
Libris Mortis has zombie hide armor.

Also, use the Corpsecrafter feat tree for more zombie fun! Exploding zombie bombs! Zombie refrigerators! Messenger zombies! Acrobat zombies! The limit is your budget and your feat expenditure!

Milo v3
2010-12-21, 12:55 AM
First timemy players used a zombie at all they used them as ammuntion for agianst paladins. The zombies transmitted thousands of diseases and the paladin's ran of of healing magic and became ill. Then the zombies were fired again and killed the now weak paladins.

The Mentalist
2010-12-21, 01:08 AM
Also, use the Corpsecrafter feat tree for more zombie fun! Exploding zombie bombs! Zombie refrigerators! Messenger zombies! Acrobat zombies! The limit is your budget and your feat expenditure!

Part of this (on my end) will be homebrewing things to give him. Like undead with no combat ability but 1 rank in a skill. I suppose I should have mentioned those.



Messenger zombies!!

Wouldn't Skeles be better for that one?

DaedalusMkV
2010-12-21, 01:15 AM
Who needs carts or horses? Ride on a floating disk (held up by Zombies) and store all of your gear on a self (and by self I mean Zombie) propelled wheelless cart! Hollow out the torso of your pet Zombie Giant and use it as your portable, walking Throne of Judgement. Use Zombie Spiders instead of arrowheads, to deliver long-lasting torment to your unfortunate foes. Why use a mace? The Zombie's Slam attack does almost as much damage, and can be wielded at range without paying for those pesky Throwing and Returning enchantments. Then use Corpsecrafting to make them explode on death*, so you don't have to waste spell-slots on silly things like Explosive Runes or Fireball. Oh, but we can make their explosion Negative Energy damage, so they keep the rest of your zombies up and running! Healing fun for everyone! And what's up with those silly adventurers who buy Handy Haversacks? Those things require a Move action to get your stuff out, while your Zombie Caddy can do it for Free and carry almost as much stuff, for a tiny fraction of the price! Never let yourself be caught with an unfashionable backpack again!

"Well, that's all well and good" you say, "But what about my Flying Carpet? Surely the zombies can't replace that?" Well, good sir (or madam), you'd be wrong! A simple Zombie Wyvern, or Dragon, or even a Giant Owl or Monstrous Bat Zombie is perfectly capable of flying you to your destination in style without you having to pay any attention to what you're doing at all, giving you more time to Corpsecraft your new mace-equivalents! And, if you think big and go for an Adult Dragon, or better yet one of those flying whales, you can take your new flying house with you, for a tiny fraction of the price of a magical house! You don't even need to pay someone to do it, because your Zombies will build it for free**!

Yes, there is truly no problem which cannot be solved with the proper application of Undead minions, and those few problems which require more Zombies than you're willing to spend can probably be solved with Skeletons! Truly, never has there been a more useful and versatile product. Just come into one of our many NecroTech locations to get yours today! Or sign up for one of our fine Dread Necromancer classes, and learn to make your own Zombie fun-squad in the comfort of your own home***!

*Warning: NecroTech is not responsible for deaths caused by exploding zombies.
** Zombie craftsmanship quality is not guaranteed.
***Tomb Tainted Soul reccomended but not required.

FelixG
2010-12-21, 01:45 AM
zombie badgers (I think) can burrow and leave a hole behind them, just have about a dozen or so of those and have them burrow, your undead army marches along behind them then the badgers burrow up and undead spill out among your enemies for added confusion and surprise!

Welknair
2010-12-21, 01:47 AM
Daedalus just won this thread.

AyeGill
2010-12-21, 02:16 AM
Daedalus just won this thread.

Repeatedly

Lord_Gareth
2010-12-21, 02:20 AM
Part of this (on my end) will be homebrewing things to give him. Like undead with no combat ability but 1 rank in a skill. I suppose I should have mentioned those.

You underestimate the power of that 2d6 cold damage bonus to keep your wines at optimal serving temperature, my friend.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2010-12-21, 02:23 AM
Indeed. It never would have occurred to me to use zombies as an Explosive Runes delivery system. If you can get your hands on a fresh corpse, you can use gentle repose and play the best practical jokes ever.

I must say, though, I somewhat prefer the zombie's lighter, more economical competition. After all, the deer that the ranger had to bring down because nobody remembered to get food for the 4-month trip to Mordor is not going to have much else to work with once you've cooked and eaten the tasty bits.

Have an evil gem that you need disposed of? Just jam it in an eyesocket and presto, one worthless burnt-out husk and one new member of your personal grooming staff. Intact skeletons are also useful as coat racks, pool cleaners, collapsible stepladders, and fashion models. The arms make excellent backscratchers, trash grabbers, pooper scoopers, et cetera, and while it may lack the heft of a zombie's meaty leg, the hard, lightweight femur club is a favorite of our oldest patrons. Although I guess you don't technically need a spell for those.

There is also the added versatility afforded by the fact that it has about a 50/50 chance of working on the exhibits in your local natural history museum, assuming the DM does not realize that most of them are actually plaster casts these days.

Geohound13
2010-12-21, 09:44 AM
Ground up bits of a ghoul in a jar, let it rot and throw it at your enemies, look and see as they become very sick. Also a ghouls spit on an arrow can paralyze

ArcanistSupreme
2010-12-21, 10:12 AM
zombie badgers (I think) can burrow and leave a hole behind them, just have about a dozen or so of those and have them burrow, your undead army marches along behind them then the badgers burrow up and undead spill out among your enemies for added confusion and surprise!

Why settle for making tunnels when you can hollow out a bullette zombie and have your own drilling tank?

Parra
2010-12-21, 10:21 AM
As a weapons Caddy.

"What do you thin Undead Fred, the +1 Flaming Scimtar or the +1 Warhammer of Impact?"
"Brrraaainnns"
"Your right of course old bean, the +1 keen shortsword would be best"
"Brrraaainnns"

Eldan
2010-12-21, 10:29 AM
Discount Iron Golem! Just make a gigantic skeleton and give it a suit if plate. Your enemies won't know the difference.

You can use skeletons as ladders.

Zombies make great anchors: just wrap a chain around them, tell them to grab the first thing they see and throw them overboard.

nyarlathotep
2010-12-21, 11:12 AM
Discount Iron Golem! Just make a gigantic skeleton and give it a suit if plate. Your enemies won't know the difference.

You can use skeletons as ladders.

Zombies make great anchors: just wrap a chain around them, tell them to grab the first thing they see and throw them overboard.

Exact wording on that last one my screw you if your DM or some cunning adventurers look into it.

Nanoblack
2010-12-21, 12:48 PM
The Secret College of Necromancy by Green Ronin (I think) might be of interest to you. It has a new skil called corpsecraft that lets you do all sorts of twisted things with bodies. (E.g. living dungeon... well un-living)

Notreallyhere77
2010-12-21, 02:11 PM
Yeah, one of my friends animated a triceratops skeleton (right after we defeated the beast), covered it in honey leather, built in a door, and used it as a mobile fortress. Unless we were in a dungeon too large to house it, he'd spend all his time inside, openning the mouth to cast spells, and casting that spell that lets you see through the eyes of your undead minions when he needed the mouth to stay shut.

There should be more necromancers using their minions like that. Also, +1 on Eldan's fake iron golem.

My contribution: Use your zombies to gain a cover bonus! You'll never need to use a tower shield, or look for a convenient waist-high wall/strategically placed pillar again.
Zombies can "survive" decapitation, so a zombie head on a stick can be used as a periscope if you have the right spell.

Necroticplague
2010-12-21, 02:50 PM
For a nice +2 bonus to stregnth and a slam attack, try grafting zombie arms to yourself. If you care about your minions, you may have some qualms about tearing both of their arms off, but then you realize:they are permanently bent to your will and completely agree with you. Thus, they support your need of their arms, and the sky becomes the limit (heck, their even grafts, not replacements, so feel free to take multitasking now).

Godskook
2010-12-21, 03:02 PM
For a nice +2 bonus to stregnth and a slam attack, try grafting zombie arms to yourself. If you care about your minions, you may have some qualms about tearing both of their arms off, but then you realize:they are permanently bent to your will and completely agree with you. Thus, they support your need of their arms, and the sky becomes the limit (heck, their even grafts, not replacements, so feel free to take multitasking now).

-1 for walking right up to a pun, saying 'hi', and then refusing to use it. What you should've said was:

"...they are permanently bent to your will and completely agree with you. Thus, they support your right to bear arms..."

PUNS: They're not just for druids anymore.

MOLOKH
2010-12-21, 05:14 PM
Okay, not exactly on-topic, but I feel this is the right place to ask.

In an upcoming campaign I'm playing a dread necromancer and of course I start looking over the cool things I can do with undead minions. But then this thing from the SRD about the Zombie template caught my attention:


Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it canít be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.


Doesn't that mean that you can't really zombify dragons and other powerful monsters, as seems to be the trend?

Claudius Maximus
2010-12-21, 05:30 PM
Draconomicon has special rules for animating dragons, one of them being that the 20 HD limit does not apply.

Other 11+ HD creatures are indeed impossible to zombify though.

Crafty Cultist
2010-12-21, 05:37 PM
How about grafting zombies to some kind of clockwork construct to have them turn wheels that move it. Or a large zombie with smaller zombies stuffed inside? It would certianly spoil a victory over a zombified hill giant if undead rats begin to swarm out of its stomach

kestrel404
2010-12-21, 06:26 PM
Let's compare zombies against the basic equipment list:
Backpack and other carrying equipment - Zombies can carry your stuff just fine
Bedroll, Blanket, etc - ...I'm just going to say it can be done and move on
Bell - Difficult, but I suppose if you just want something to make noise you can always just command the zombies to speak.
Block and tackle - A dozen zombies with a rope can lift pretty much anything.
Caltrops - Exploding skeletons will slow down your enemies just as much, if not more. Either before or after they explode.
Candle, Torch, etc - Have you ever heard of a Hand of Glory? It need not be detached first...if you can get the body it's on to follow you around.
Chain, Ladder, Rope, etc - Get Zombie A to hold onto/stand on Zombie B, repeat for as much height as you need.
Chalk - "You, stand right there until I come back and keep pointing the way we came!" And you wondered why dungeons are always full of the undead.
Crowbar - Slam attacks can open anything eventually.
Firewood - Yep.
Fishook, Fishing net, etc - Much like fishing with dynamite, fishing with zombies may not be very sportsmanlike but it can be quite effective.
Flint and steel - Exploding zombie?
Grappling Hook - Skeleton Monkeys!
Ink - The fresh ones are full of red ink!
Lock - "You, hold that door shut!"
Mirror - "Zombie, zombie on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?" "Brains?"
Mug - ...I'm not gonna think about this one.
Oil - Sufficiently dry zombies burn real good!
Paper - Be sure to bone up on your 'Craft(Tatoo)' skill.
Piton - More zombie monkies!
Pole - Get your zombie to walk over and poke what you were going to poke with the pole. Can be used at ranges much better than 10'.
Pot - This one just isn't going to work terribly well, no matter how you figure it.
Rations - Again...no.
Sealing wax - "Zombie, guard this letter until the one it is addressed to takes it from you." If the zombie's hands have been cut off, you know the letter has been tampered with.
Sewing Needle - They're made out of bones, right?
Signal Whistle - At least one of your many zombies HAS to know how to whistle. They just have to!
Soap - Made from fat, ash and lye. All you need is the lye.
Shovel - "Zombies! DIG!"
Spyglass - Zombies make excellent scouts. Send out a hundred, and you can tell the strength of your enemies by how many come back!
Whetstone - OK, this one is kind of tough, but if you sharpen often enough all you REALLY need is a leather strop.

Cipher Stars
2010-12-21, 07:56 PM
Someone should make the ultimate Zombie maker build and display it here by level.

Jack_Simth
2010-12-21, 08:20 PM
Draconomicon has special rules for animating dragons, one of them being that the 20 HD limit does not apply.

Other 11+ HD creatures are indeed impossible to zombify though.
Ah, they're impossible to zombify with the Animate Dead spell. They are *not* impossible to zombify if you have enough sources! Check out the Fell Animate feat from ... Libris Mortis, I think it was? Also cuts down on the GP expenditure. Sadly, this generally means your Corpsecrafter feats don't come into play... but there's ways around even that.

kestrel404
2010-12-21, 09:03 PM
Based off my dipinator build, this character is designed to maximize total CL and therefore number of controllable HD. The killing things via the Fell Animate feat allows the newly created undead to be counted against any caster level so filling up all the pools is possible.

The Zombie Hoarder
Class: Human
Bard 1 (Able Learner, Versatile Spellcaster, Spell Focus (Evil), Fell Animate (flaws: Non-combatant & Murky-eyed))
Dread Necromancer 1
Binder 1 (Improved Binding)
Anima Mage 1
Spellthief 1
Unseen Seer 1 (Practiced Spellcaster (Dread Necro))
Mindbender 1
Duskblade 1
Ur-priest 2 (Master Spellthief)
Sublime Chord 2 (Extend spell)
Mystic Theurge 8 (Persist, DMM:Persist)

Arcane Caster level:
Dread Necromancer (Base): 1 +3 (Anima Mage, Unseen Seer, Mindbender) +4 (Practiced Spellcaster) = 8
Sublime Chord: 8 (DN) + 10 = 18 (This sets all arcane caster levels effective caster level 18) +18 = 36
Spellthief: 18 ( Added to the effective caster level of all other classes)
Dread Necro: 36
Bard: 36
Duskblade: 36
Ur-Priest = (36*4.5)/2 + 10 = 91
Total Caster Levels = 253
Total Undead control pool = 1012 HD

Rebuke undead attempts: 6+2*cha (Dread Necro & Ur-priest), meaning 1 persistent spell, +1/3.5 points of cha bonus. Since Cha is the primary casting stat for most of those classes...

flabort
2010-12-21, 11:20 PM
1012 HD?!
You could have a hundred and one 10 HD zombies! (it is max 10 HD/zombie?)
Although good luck finding a hundred 10 HD corpses, let alone the one.

Halae
2010-12-21, 11:51 PM
1012 HD?!
You could have a hundred and one 10 HD zombies! (it is max 10 HD/zombie?)
Although good luck finding a hundred 10 HD corpses, let alone the one.

That's actually pretty simply. It's only 4 HD, but instigate a war between any kingdom you like and a nearby clan of ogres. Loot the battlefield. In several ways.

Quincunx
2010-12-22, 08:30 AM
Pot: Decapitate zombie, scrape out rotten brains, tongue, and cartilage, cook in brain-pan. Shallow, but doable.
Rope: Eviscerate zombie. Recommended to sever first at the large intestine for better grip and zombie-body anchor, but if the stresses are too great can be clipped at esophagus as well.
Handy Tip: Esophagus, cut away from GI rope, makes a ready blowpipe!
Ink: Vitreous humor dries clear. Invisible ink!
Thunderstone: Equip zombies with cymbals and a command word.

Malbordeus
2010-12-22, 08:45 AM
get a big enough zombie, hollow it out, use it as a gundam.

Karuth
2010-12-22, 09:21 AM
Entertainment:
Train several Skeletons and zombies in the usage of Instruments (Probably things like drums and such). Have them play when you need to relax.

Distraction:
Have said band play very loud, while you sneak past whatever it is you want to get past. With the ruckus they make you can probably just walk normally.

Demoralisation:
Let your countless undead minions form a congaline, dress them in flashy clothes, draw a happy smiley face on them and let them dance toward they enemy. If you have enough of them (I read something of 1000?) the victims are bound to get insane at some point.

Stomach turner:
Animate only zombies and have them parade naked in front of you. No one will want to get too close to you.

Roderick_BR
2010-12-22, 11:32 AM
First timemy players used a zombie at all they used them as ammuntion for agianst paladins. The zombies transmitted thousands of diseases and the paladin's ran of of healing magic and became ill. Then the zombies were fired again and killed the now weak paladins.
Paladins are immune to diseases, unless they were magic ones in AD&D (to which they weren't immune yet), so, paladins would usually be the last kind of enemy you'd want to use this ammunition on, as they would be the ones immune to it...

Coidzor
2010-12-22, 12:28 PM
There is also the added versatility afforded by the fact that it has about a 50/50 chance of working on the exhibits in your local natural history museum, assuming the DM does not realize that most of them are actually plaster casts these days.

Ah, well, with those ones you can haunt shift your way into a permanent animated object without paying for the permanency. :smallbiggrin: And 5 levels sooner too.


How about grafting zombies to some kind of clockwork construct to have them turn wheels that move it.

With the wonder of the haunt shift spell (Libris Mortis), you can get a single zombie to turn all of the wheels of such a clockwork construction provided it was between Tiny and Huge in size by making it into an actual construct, that is, an animated object.

Of course, for anything larger than Huge, "nano-bot" zombies(probably more skellingtons really) to power the clockwork mechanisms could be pretty nifty. Or have several haunt shifted animated objects come together to form voltron.

Milo v3
2010-12-27, 06:04 AM
Paladins are immune to diseases, unless they were magic ones in AD&D (to which they weren't immune yet), so, paladins would usually be the last kind of enemy you'd want to use this ammunition on, as they would be the ones immune to it...

Firstly it was 3.5 so 3rd level & up paladins would be immune to it. Except that tis was a special disease/spell that was made to only effect paladins. It can transmitt via other classes but only effects paladins. Second most the paladins of dylian were:

- 1st level Paladins

- 2nd level Paladins

- 1st level fighters

- 1st level warriors


Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it canít be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.
Also you can animate zombies with HD higher than 11. Use a spell other than Animate Dead.