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View Full Version : [3.5]Starting New Campaign - Need tips :D



LansXero
2011-01-03, 02:51 AM
Hello everyone!

This week I will be meeting with an experienced group of people who've been playin together for 12 years, for character creation, introductions and presenting a summary of the adventure. Im a bit nervous about facing people with far more experience than myself, but also very excited as I really like DMing :D

So, what kind of signs do you look for to decide if a DM is going to be good or not? Anything in particular that stands out or is a `must`when starting a group? Any potential red flags I should avoid?

As for the campaign itself, I have a couple of ideas now, and I think I have something good, but commentary would be apreciated:

Aproved material:
I plan on allowing everything published in 3.5, however I reserve the right to ban broken stuff in a case-by-case basis; this is a serious group and I don`t want to appear limited or afraid by cutting out choices. Considering a game can be broken with core spells, it really shouldnt get too out of hand. This forum has also taught me about all the broken things I should be on the lookout for :P. Im not sure about allowing Pathfinder classes/feats, as Im not very familiar with it. Would that be too problematic?

House Rules:


Common sense and verosimilitude supersede rules as written.
RAI comes before RAW.
If a rule isnt remebered off-hand, anyone who wants it ruled a certain way has 2 minutes to produce the relevant section in whichever manual applies. If he/she cant, I adjudicate it based on whatever makes the most sense at the time, and it will be looked up and resolved in the time between sessions.
NPCs are people too, meaning playes should not expect them to bend over backwards in servitude, and also there will be lots of PC-classed `monsters`running around.
Alignment is a suggestion, not a straight jacket; its prone to shifting in the middle of the campaign based on actions, and chaotic stupid will be heavily punished.
Skill checks will be used VERY liberally. In favor of a more `cinematic`experience, Ill allow them to use skills in-combat for stuff like climbing on top of a big monster and hitting its head, aimed shots, etc. It will be adjudicated on the fly, to encourage fast thinking on both DM and players.


Campaign Setting:
Homebrew, I guess. Basically, I love Eberron's gray morality and 'if its in D&Dm, it has a place here' philosophy, but I also like the Great Wheel cosmology from planescape, so it will be a mix of both. Greenskins and other humanoid races are more than just fodder, and there is more to them than meets the eye. `Monster`PC races are completely normal and actually encouraged, :P

Adventure Summary:
Im going to crib an idea I read on a thread here (Ill look it up later to give proper credit) about the PCs starting as paid mercenaries for a kingdom. This should help avoid the cliché of meeting at a tavern and the awkwardness of having to go from strangers to allies without a real reason. Also, I hope this will reflect the actual experience the players have from past campaigns. It will start at level 1, as they 'graduate' from this Kingdom's mandatory mercenary boot camp. They will be provided basic equipment and a small sum of gold as an advance and given their first mission; Im debating wheter to make the graduation ceremony a small party vs party arena combat. If they were to win, they'd start with a magic item as a prize, and a larger amount of money each; if they were to lose, well, no biggie. It would let me gauge their power level and plan accordingly, and I was hoping to introduce a rival party of adventurers this way, whio could either become hated or apreciated. The basic idea behind the whole affair with sponsoring adventurers was, in that other thread, to have Mindflayers running the kingdom in the shadows, who were flavoring the adventurers brains by having them gain experience. This rival party could serve eventually as a lead-in to that, when it goes back to the kingdom's capital for its reward and then vanishes from the face of the earth. But I get ahead of myself. . .

Their first mission would be answering a call for help from the local mining guild. A tribe of kobolds has moved into their near-by mining operation and is disrupting labors; the guild pays a yearly amount to the kingdom so that they dont have to spend manpower or resources solving this kind of problem. In turn, the kingdom responds by sending the PCs. So far so good. However, when they arrive on site they should notice that the gnome-rules mining guild is composed of a lot of lazy thugs and other people who dont seem to have ever worked a full day in their life: famblers, ruffians, etc.

If this doesn´t tip them off, when they enter the mine proper (after fighting off a small kobold party that was raiding the warehouse when they arrived) they discover that, while the tunnels are wide enough for them to walk unburdened, they can barely fit two people side by side. In other words, its impossible that it was ever a mining tunnel for medium creatures (and the gnomes are only a handful of engineers and other intellectual looking people). The kobolds will use hit-and-run tactics and judicious placement of traps throughout the mine, but Ill keep it from being a meatgrinder. If the PCs care to explore, they´ll find traces of kobold carvings, depicting the excavation of the mine, as well as the usual koboldish family scenes.

After clearing out the main shaft, they are warned by the lead gnome that they are only allowed to go up to a point, and that going any further is strictly forbidden and will reflect badly in their pay. However, when they reach that point they will be harrassed and pushed on further by the kobolds, as well as by lots of hints at a geat treasure further beyond in the tunnels. If they decide to obey the gnome at this point they will get paid and move on to their next mission. So no biggie if they get off the rails :P

However, if they choose to continue forward they will be lead to a huge cavern, where a dragon lies half-impaled by a cave in. The dragon is keeping the cavern from collapsing on top of its eggs, and a bunch of kobolds are trying frantically to dig her out, although with all the ruckus the PCs have been causing its not surprise that theyve made very little progress.

At this point, the gnome leader will appear and explain to them that they never had any interest in the mine itself; they found the kobolds and the dragon´s nest and decided to collapse the cave on top of her, to steal the eggs and harvest her corpse for magical components. The mine is a bonus, sort of speaking. Depending on the PCs attitude, the gnome may either threaten or bribe them to keep quiet and help deal with the remaining kobolds.

At this point the kobold leader, a dragonwrought, appears and challenges the PCs and the gnomes. The remaining kobolds ready for their last stand, while the dragon keeps begging them to flee, trying to shake loose from the impaling debris. If the PCs join the gnome, the dragon will eventually let her own eggs get crushed, so the whelps dont get sold into slavery. This will enrage the gnome, who uses a scroll to finish the dragon off. The kobolds, enraged at their loss, will then hurl themselves at the PCs, foregoing their usual tactics and basically comitting sucide by going on a frontal assault.

However, the PCs may (and I hope I make them do so) have second thoughts about the whole thing. If they decide to attack the gnome, the kobolds will consider them with caution, but given their HUGE hatred of gnomes, will ignore them until they are dealt with. The eggs will probably get broken and the dragon zapped either way, though, unless someone has a better suggestion.

Anyways, if they side with the gnomes they come back to town richer, and darker. Maybe the rival party found out what was going on, and while they rest at an inn one of them comes and spits in the ground in front of them, showing their disgust at their amoral greed. If they side with the kobolds they will begin gaining some insight about the kingdom they serve, and how maybe not everything is what it seems. Not sure where to take it from here either. . .

Woah, wall of text. Well, besides that. . .

Other stuff:
As for maps, I was planning on using a cardboard grid covered with a plastic sheet I can draw on as they advance. I always liked on-site improvisation, using cellphones as houses, etc. and I think it adds a measure of suspense to the exploring; sort of a fog of war lifting from the game map. Would this be ok, or would it look too amateurish?

Also, I love drawing the places and scenes they are looking at while I do the description. Basically, Ill begin saying something like `you arrive to the mining site, a camp of a half-dozen leather tents surrounded by hammocks, where a couple of large, bearded men are noisily snoring in their sleeps" and then hand them a piece of paper with a rough sketch of that and tell them 'its something like this'. Now, Im not very good drawing, and it keeps me from making eye contact while I describe, so maybe its not a good diea?

Thats all I can think of at the moment. I realize its a lot to read, so probably no one will bother, so if you could just answer the question at the top that would be enough to earn you a hundred cookies :D

Gabe the Bard
2011-01-03, 04:26 AM
The adventure that you outlined sounds good! I especially like the idea of starting the campaign with a battle. Aside from gauging your characters' power level, it would be a good way to find out how long you can expect combat to take and see if there's anything in particular that's slowing you down.

The house rules look fine, but some of the combat-oriented uses of skills may step into the territory of combat feats. The example you gave of using the Climb skill to climb up a big monster, well, there's a feat in Races of the Wild that lets you do just that. If you're really okay with letting players use skills that way, you should watch out for players building their characters using a feat that might be rendered useless.

holywhippet
2011-01-03, 05:26 AM
The only thing that really turns me off a DM is when they throw you into situations far above your class level with no specific expectation of you surviving. CRs are there for a reason - even if they are broken you should consider whether a fight might be too much. Which isn't to say you should go easy on the players - give them fights that are tough but winnable.

Secondly, be careful if you decide to make a game world "low magic". Often it means the players don't get access to certain things whch the DM does. If you make life harder for the players in your game world - try to balance it out with some other benefit.

Vangor
2011-01-03, 05:40 AM
I would be careful about presenting gnomes v kobolds and desiring the PCs to side with kobolds for the more interesting end to this portion of the quest. While the gnomes represent themselves as secretive, the party are themselves mercenaries, known for being greedy and asking minimal questions, plus kobolds tend to be bad. I see you needing to make too clear the premise the kobolds are not themselves evil in order to give any type of gray morality to the mission, because otherwise the party sides with the gnomes since kobolds are evil or the party sides with the kobolds because why not.

Perhaps the simplest way around this is choose a metallic dragon which does not as instantly convey "good" as gold, silvers, and others would. Copper dragons would make sense, to me, being tricksters, social, taking lair in winding caverns, and still coveting as any dragon would.

Other than this, assure the group does have a more than two directions to take this, and be prepared for this. The gnomes shouldn't automatically arrive upon the adventurers coming into the cavern with the dragon, for instance, but something should eventually alert them something is amiss. Were I an adventurer being told not to venture beyond "X" point, I would in an instant, I just wouldn't let people know. Similarly, I might want to thieve the eggs for my own.

Biggest tip for dealing with experienced players is they either try to fulfill what they assume the story is, which is helping the gnomes, or what is most interesting and different, which is getting your own dragon eggs. Depends who the players are, but they tend to one or the other in my experience.

This is basically what I look for in a DM is if they are prepared for things outside those predefined chat bubbles. You know what I mean, the good, evil, or evil and the combat or dialogue paths which come at major crossroads and shape your campaign. I try my hardest to follow the path the DM has given me, picking up hooks and such, and you should expect your players to do the same frankly, but don't try to condense down the options.

LansXero
2011-01-03, 07:30 PM
I would be careful about presenting gnomes v kobolds and desiring the PCs to side with kobolds for the more interesting end to this portion of the quest. While the gnomes represent themselves as secretive, the party are themselves mercenaries, known for being greedy and asking minimal questions, plus kobolds tend to be bad. I see you needing to make too clear the premise the kobolds are not themselves evil in order to give any type of gray morality to the mission, because otherwise the party sides with the gnomes since kobolds are evil or the party sides with the kobolds because why not.

I hope to make that point clear during their initial forays into the mine. Im thinking the mural carvings could depict the hard work the kobolds put into building it, as well as the more positive nuances of koboldish life. Likewise, the gnomes wont be the only ones present: they hired a band of muscle of their own, cutthroats and thugs from the nearby towns who are a nasty bunch and hang around the mining camp causing trouble. Perhaps it comes off a bit heavy handed and biased?



Perhaps the simplest way around this is choose a metallic dragon which does not as instantly convey "good" as gold, silvers, and others would. Copper dragons would make sense, to me, being tricksters, social, taking lair in winding caverns, and still coveting as any dragon would.

Thats great! I havent tought about the dragon's color yet to be honest. Perhaps Ill weave a story for her as well, in case the PCs manage to keep it alive. Why is it nesting there? why are the kobolds there? It could make for a sidequest, perhaps.


Other than this, assure the group does have a more than two directions to take this, and be prepared for this. The gnomes shouldn't automatically arrive upon the adventurers coming into the cavern with the dragon, for instance, but something should eventually alert them something is amiss. Were I an adventurer being told not to venture beyond "X" point, I would in an instant, I just wouldn't let people know. Similarly, I might want to thieve the eggs for my own.

The gnomes know about the dragon, so they are probably watching the PCs closely to know when they clear the path to its lair. But yes, Ill try to have it make sense to see the gnomes there, unless the party is sneaky about their trespassing, in which case the final scene will play differently. Maybe they arrive and the dragon will talk to them, and combat can be averted? maybe they'll pick a fight with it anyways, which will make the gnomes arrive after a while. Dont worry, Ive become pretty good at making up options as things go along :D


Biggest tip for dealing with experienced players is they either try to fulfill what they assume the story is, which is helping the gnomes, or what is most interesting and different, which is getting your own dragon eggs. Depends who the players are, but they tend to one or the other in my experience.

Thats very helpful and a bit worrying. Them getting their own dragon eggs is covered by the dragon mother, whose death will cause the ceiling to collapse on them, and if the PCs get too close she will let them break regardless. But maybe if the PCs are really tricky or surprise me they will get their own egg / whelpling. It could develop into yet another side quest :D. It could lead to other dragons who actually know the truth behind the empire's rulers :O


This is basically what I look for in a DM is if they are prepared for things outside those predefined chat bubbles. You know what I mean, the good, evil, or evil and the combat or dialogue paths which come at major crossroads and shape your campaign. I try my hardest to follow the path the DM has given me, picking up hooks and such, and you should expect your players to do the same frankly, but don't try to condense down the options.


Thats a problem because even I dont know what is or isnt a hook. Basically, I put in lots of random elements and people, and try to make them remarkable to cause interest from the players. If they bite, then Ill develop that angle further and rationalize the rest of the story around it. Thats also the reason why Im really bad at running printed modules; I always end up deviating from it a lot >_<. If the PCs choose to interact with a statless nameless NPC because of whatever reason, Ill flesh him out in the spot and sometimes end up making THAT the campaign focus. . . do you think this would be problematic?


The only thing that really turns me off a DM is when they throw you into situations far above your class level with no specific expectation of you surviving. CRs are there for a reason - even if they are broken you should consider whether a fight might be too much. Which isn't to say you should go easy on the players - give them fights that are tough but winnable.

Yeah, Im not too fond of CR:YouLose encounters myself either. If there is a truly unwinnable fight the narrative ends up requiring, Ill probably run it in cinematic mode (why make them roll attacks and saves that will fail outside a nat20 anyways?) but mostly I try to avoid them. Im a huge roll-player though, so even CR-apropriate encounters tend to be tough because I love tactical combat and sometimes get too caught up in 'beating' the PCs. To compensate, somewhat, Im very liberal with loot, usually making lots of custom items that also serve as possible plot-hooks or sidequests on their own >_<.


Secondly, be careful if you decide to make a game world "low magic". Often it means the players don't get access to certain things whch the DM does. If you make life harder for the players in your game world - try to balance it out with some other benefit.

Low magic is kinda dull. It will depend on the players, honestly. If there are several spellcasters in there, Ill make adjustments, if not, enemies will be mostly of the martial type. Ill probably use the alternative systems (incarnum, pact magic, etc) as characteristics of the main villains, so that their unfamiliarity with how they work adds to the overall sense of awe and mistery about them.


I especially like the idea of starting the campaign with a battle. Aside from gauging your characters' power level, it would be a good way to find out how long you can expect combat to take and see if there's anything in particular that's slowing you down.

Im thinking of houseruling initiative to be in a clockwise around the table order instead of rolling it before every encounter, but only if no one invests particularly into optimizing it. Other than that, I dont see many tie-ups of time at the moment. I hope the arena fight is well received, because I plan to whomp their asses xD. (not out to kill them, the fight is supposed to be non-lethal either way. Just to set the mood that while special, they are not all-powerful.)


The example you gave of using the Climb skill to climb up a big monster, well, there's a feat in Races of the Wild that lets you do just that. If you're really okay with letting players use skills that way, you should watch out for players building their characters using a feat that might be rendered useless.

Definitively. If anyone invests in picking up such feats or skill tricks, Ill let them know they will be allowed regardless, and creativity encouraged, so they may pick something else instead :D

Tokuhara
2011-01-03, 08:34 PM
I suggest pooling knowledge from classic D&D sources and modules for ideas

Like myself: I'm going to run a campaign based on the module GDQ1-7