PDA

View Full Version : Request for other's homebrew



PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2011-01-03, 03:23 PM
Looking to see if anyone has fully fleshed out a homebrew idea I just finished:

Making a class or PrC that can actually heal effectively in combat. Yes I'm aware killing things is more efficient ordinarily. I am hoping for an alternative that makes it worth it (or even better) so the healer don't hate their ineffectual role.

Don't say its not possible. If I can make a base class that holds down all but the most TO full casters, this is within my grasp.

So has anyone done this? If not, I can share my attempt :smallwink:

IcarusWings
2011-01-03, 03:33 PM
I don't know if anyone has or not, but even if it has been done, you should still post it. Different perspectives on the same thing can be enlightening, and a help to other Brewers out there. And you never know, yours might be better than any precedent that's already been posted.

To answer your question, I don't know of any on these boards. But the Crusader from ToB can heal in combat fine (it's not the best healing out there, but it satisfies your "effective in combat" requirement".

AyeGill
2011-01-03, 03:39 PM
To answer your question, I don't know of any on these boards. But the Crusader from ToB can heal in combat fine (it's not the best healing out there, but it satisfies your "effective in combat" requirement".

yeah, but it's not like healing is as good an option in combat, as, say, killing the creature that's causing damage. Generally, unless somebody needs a lifesaver, healing is a subpar option in combat. out-of-combat healing is better, though also much more plentiful(charnel touch and tomb-tainted soul, anyone?)

The Vorpal Tribble
2011-01-03, 03:48 PM
Don't know of one offhand, but did homebrew a creature that would heal you and heal you and heal you until the positive energy literally made you explode. Thus the more hit points it healed you the closer you were to dying.

IcarusWings
2011-01-03, 04:22 PM
Actually, I think I remember a base class on here that encouraged healing. Basically, you could either heal or hurt, healing filled the healing pool and decreased the hurting pool, and hurting filled the hurting pool and decreased the healing pool. And you could only have a max number of points in any pool. So to hurt people you had to heal other people or your pool would fill.

Gimme' a second to find the link.

EDIT: Yeah, the Lifeweaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140211&highlight=lifeweaver), much better than my naff explanation makes it sound.

I assume it's probably very different from your concept though, so I'm not sure how much help it'll be.

blackmage
2011-01-03, 08:08 PM
Not too long ago someone posted a remake of the healer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118), and it looks decent.

Havvy
2011-01-04, 12:57 AM
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/White_Mage_%283.5e_Class%29

White Mage that can channel the positive energy plane.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2011-01-04, 09:00 PM
This board is a little more active than I thought. Tribble I love that idea. You and your crazy monsters. That lifeweaver class is very interesting. I don't know what to do with it, but it's not what I'm looking for.

The revamped healer base class has a surprising number of common elements: spell progression, numerically higher healing, sanctuary effect, and temporary HP.

I dislike the spell list, the non (healing) spells, the manipulating status conditions. Added dice thing to healed damage as easy or rewarding. The action economy boost could be better. The free metamagics could also already be done DMM+reach spell or just heirophant PrC it.

What I'm on the fence about: the similar thing to the above with buffs can be done with that dragon magazine compendium spell. I'm not sure if I like the get out of TPK free card. I see no problem with teleporting away and resurrecting then. There are already ways to cast as SLAs. Differing action economy boosting allows instant un TPK effects without having to worry about another class ability.

I like the temporary HP fueled as excess to regular spell healing. There are flavorful ways to do this power powerfully, but probably not as simply as done here. I'll have to think on this.

tldr; the upgrade allows for healing well, but doesn't provide a worthwhile alternative to being a wizard and not needing healing.

edit: mods interference about the dnd wiki one... "At this point the White Mage has pretty much won D&D"

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-04, 09:09 PM
I like the Dragon Shaman from PHBII. Its main ability is an aura that affects party members, and one of the options is fast healing (but it can't heal you over 1/2 your maximum hit points.) You might want to check that one out.

Ziegander
2011-01-04, 09:12 PM
I wrote new healing spells and a pure healing class. The spells and class are in my sig.

The Purelantern is focused on being difficult to stop from moving around the battlefield and difficult to stop from healing its allies. It also gains the nifty ability to debuff enemies it moves past.

The new healing spells tackle the issue on multiple fronts. The Cure line of spells become swift actions, gain Short range, and increase the amount of healing they grant not linearly, but quadratically based on average HP of the character levels that those spells show up on. The Heal line of spells are your standard action, Touch range spells that grant a big, flat rate of healing along with removing status effects and other negative conditions as they increase with spell level.

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-05, 04:26 AM
The revamped healer base class has a surprising number of elements that my PrC version does, many of which I expected: spell progression, numerically higher healing, sanctuary effect, and temporary HP.

What I don't like: The spell list. For adding non (healing) spells and manipulating status conditions, mine does it better. The added dice thing to healed damage isn't as easy or rewarding as my system. My action economy boost is also better. The free metamagics could also already be done DMM+reach spell or just heirophant PrC it.

What I'm on the fence about: the similar thing to the above with buffs can be done with that dragon magazine compendium spell. I'm not sure if I like the get out of TPK free card. I see no problem with teleporting away and resurrecting then. There are already ways to cast as SLAs. In fact my action economy boost seems to allow a better "I am using my spells" to instantly un TPK better without having to worry about another class ability.

I like the temporary HP fueled as excess to regular spell healing. Mechanically mine does this better. I'll have to think on if I want to change mine.

tldr; the upgrade allows for healing well, but doesn't provide worthwhile alternative to being a wizard and not needing healing.

Umm...you know, you could have posted that there and be a bit more specific. Specifically, what your PrC does better, and what might seem confusing.

First; please illustrate what about the spell list seems to be a bit better in your version. Consider that the healer is basically a spontaneous spellcaster, with the ability to know every single spell on its list (and a bit more). That was the idea behind the spell list, and I heard ideas about which other spells could have gone as well.

Second: Improved Healer's Blessing works under a similar premise with Warmage Edge, essentially boosting the dice cap. A Cure Light Wounds spell becomes pointless later on because it will never heal more than 13 points of damage, while a single spell can do an average of 13 points roughly three levels later; such is the same with other spells of that type. Heal is extremely useful because it delivers a very specific amount of healing, which scales far better than damage does, plus it has several rider effects. Indeed, the Healer doesn't have much rider effects, but that's because there are other rider effects around in any case.

Third: what's easier; to do DMM-Reach spell or to have all spells have reach? Also, what's better: to have reach after level 15 with a loss in spells, or to have them earlier on without a loss in spellcasting? There are options, but the idea of the healer is that the character shouldn't have to invest THAT much to get something it should have gotten early on the adventure. Extending the range of heals and buffs shouldn't be something that appears at 1st level, but not something that you should wait until 15th (or that it has a limited amount of times).

Fourth: that it's on Dragon Compendium doesn't mean all DMs will accept it.

Fifth: the idea of the capstone came from the original capstone of the healer: True Resurrection 1/day. The ability is done much better, but also with a specific restriction that was recommended by the people that saw the class (though I'm sure you took your time to read the rest of the thread...)

The idea with the Healer was never to replace a Wizard; heck, it's not meant to replace a Cleric. It's meant to do healing well, and I hope that was achieved. I often mention I'm open to ideas and suggestions, after all.

Oh, and...forgive me if I sound too offensive; it's my work, and hence I seek to protect it. I just don't hope that happened because I feel this is a backstab to some of my hard work; however, if it helps your PrC (or my homebrew), all the better. Otherwise, I feel I'll have to be quite defensive with my work.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2011-01-05, 10:38 PM
I understand the above points. Usually homebrew isn't created to do things that are doable without it, though I know yours is an upgrade. Also usually homebrew is the last frontier, with people using all of 1st part before that.


it's my work, and hence I seek to protect it. I just don't hope that happened because I feel this is a backstab to some of my hard workIt's all good. I originally had a different purpose for the thread, but I see that it's too close to what you intended. I posted over here rather than at your thread because I didn't want to dogpile on your hard work. I'll desist. The thread is basically answered since others have done the whole healer thing. It was a fun walk into this forum

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-05, 11:30 PM
I understand the above points. Usually homebrew isn't created to do things that are doable without it, though I know yours is an upgrade. Also usually homebrew is the last frontier, with people using all of 1st part before that.

It's all good. I originally had a different purpose for the thread, but I see that it's too close to what you intended. I posted over here rather than at your thread because I didn't want to dogpile on your hard work. I'll desist. The thread is basically answered since others have done the whole healer thing. It was a fun walk into this forum

Don't get disheartened because people have done stuff before you. Go for it; if you have the idea, don't let someone else's work make you stop. There are great fixes for Monk, Paladin and just about anything else; yet, when you homebrew, it's mostly for you and you present it just in case others agree with you. It's showcasing your work.

Also: I usually am open for ideas. Really; that thing about "tell me if it sucks"? For real. If it sucks and you feel the rest is the same, say it; it might make me go on the defensive, but eventually I should learn about that. And that's why I would have liked going for the answer at the thread; heck, the Healer's Blessing ability might be nerfed a bit because it's pretty powerful at later levels (something akin to ranks in Heal + Wis modifier might be a more conservative point, for example, and also makes Heal useful and Wisdom a bit more useful). Just because of that you shouldn't be disheartened; in fact, perhaps people will look at my attempt to make a better class, look at your PrC or attempt to make another class, and they'll choose yours because yours has better ideas or whatnot. You can decide to help, you can decide to simply point flaws, you can take ideas and make sure you give a heads-up to the 'brewer, but in the end, it's your decision whether you decide to make your 'brew or not.

DracoDei
2011-01-05, 11:49 PM
I did a dragon with a positive energy breath-weapon. I mention this because it probably used something very like VTs method (he probably did what I did and pulled from the Strongly Positive Energy planar trait). What I did was to tweak the precise effects (using something known as Funky Alignment, that you shouldn't worry about, but would need to find a substitute for) and then combine it with a secondary ability to make worth attacking for damage AND healing your foes (at least in some cases).

It is a silly monster, so I am going to provide the most relevant details here, if you want the full thing, here is the link:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6844810&postcount=5

Breath Weapon (Su): The breath weapon of a disco dragon is a multicolored cone of Funky positive energy. Living creatures gain hitpoints from this, and are never allowed a saving throw. Undead are allowed a fortitude save for half damage, except if they are Groovin' dead in which case they take no damage on a successful save. Groovin' Death with Mettle take only half damage on a failed save, and no damage on a successful save. Groovin' Dead with Improved Mettle are immune to a Disco Dragon's breath weapon. In any case a creature struck by a Disco Dragons breath weapon must also make a separate DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being blinded for 10 rounds by the brilliance of the energy. The hitpoints gained by living creature from the breath weapon may increase their hit-point total past the normal maximum, treat any excess as temporary hit-points. These temporary hit points fade after one hour. Funky damage affects normal hitpoints first, bypassing these extra hitpoints, until they are reduced to a level sufficient to kill the creature, or as close to that as is possible from hit-point damage (-10 for most creatures, -50 for the Tarrasque, etc), any additional damage (regardless of if it is Funky or not) beyond that affects the temporary hitpoints from the breath weapon. Similarly, the breathweapon only heals damage with the [funky] type if the disco dragon wants it to do so for that particular creature, otherwise it goes directly to temporary hit-points. Determine the status of the creature (disabled, dying, dead, etc) based on the sum of the two pools. A creature must make a Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points (and thus NOT taking into account any damage the creature may have taken that had the Funky type) exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it. The DC of the Fortitude save is 20 or the Disco Dragon's breathweapon save DC, whichever is greater. The breathweapon save DC is Charisma based.

This is the Part Where You Fall Down(Su): As a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a disco dragon may attempt to dispel all temporary hit-points granted by its breathweapon on all creatures within 10' per age category of itself. Each creature is allowed a will save versus the DC of the disco dragon's breathweapon to negate this, and retain the temporary hit-points.

kryan
2011-01-06, 12:10 AM
I'd look to the War Weaver for thoughts on massively increasing the efficiency of healing magics, personally.