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View Full Version : Integrating traps into the game (3.PF)



WarKitty
2011-01-05, 02:09 PM
This is one of my old frustrations with the 3.5 system. You can build some quite interesting traps. You can build some quite interesting stealth situations. But they don't get used, because the DM can't afford to devote a lot of time to one character in the group size we play with.

I feel like a lot of the games I've played in turned into "the rogue's time" and "everyone else's time." Which isn't how I want to play a cooperative game. If I'm playing the fighter, I don't want to sit there twiddling my thumbs while the rogue sneaks around for us. And frankly no one in our group really likes playing a rogue anyway. As a DM, it limits the difficulty of the challenges I can put in because I can't leave half my players hanging. I feel they would enjoy some challenging traps or stealth scenarios if there were a way to involve the entire party.

How would you go about integrating these skills so you can have more characters contribute? Traps especially, but also other non-combat skill challenge scenarios.

Starbuck_II
2011-01-05, 02:39 PM
This is one of my old frustrations with the 3.5 system. You can build some quite interesting traps. You can build some quite interesting stealth situations. But they don't get used, because the DM can't afford to devote a lot of time to one character in the group size we play with.

I feel like a lot of the games I've played in turned into "the rogue's time" and "everyone else's time." Which isn't how I want to play a cooperative game. If I'm playing the fighter, I don't want to sit there twiddling my thumbs while the rogue sneaks around for us. And frankly no one in our group really likes playing a rogue anyway. As a DM, it limits the difficulty of the challenges I can put in because I can't leave half my players hanging. I feel they would enjoy some challenging traps or stealth scenarios if there were a way to involve the entire party.

How would you go about integrating these skills so you can have more characters contribute? Traps especially, but also other non-combat skill challenge scenarios.

in addition, it seems more profitable to steal the traps somehow than disable as they are worth a fortune. 1000 go x CR = trap.

4th edition had some cool traps to include in an encounter. Since they add Exp/CR to encounter it suggested including them in most encounters.

But in 4th, you could disable/avoid traps without being a rogue: spellcraft/Know geography/et cetera worked.
So I'd steal from them.

Now what about traps outside of combat?
Well, what image/feeling are you trying to evoke?
In combat traps are weakeners, more combat more dangerous/ or warders sheparding the Pcs to go a certain route or face danger (freedom of movement is a luxury in combat some take for granted).

WarKitty
2011-01-05, 02:43 PM
in addition, it seems more profitable to steal the traps somehow than disable as they are worth a fortune. 1000 go x CR = trap.

4th edition had some cool traps to include in an encounter. Since they add Exp/CR to encounter it suggested including them in most encounters.

But in 4th, you could disable/avoid traps without being a rogue: spellcraft/Know geography/et cetera worked.
So I'd steal from them.

Now what about traps outside of combat?
Well, what image/feeling are you trying to evoke?
In combat traps are weakeners, more combat more dangerous/ or warders sheparding the Pcs to go a certain route or face danger (freedom of movement is a luxury in combat some take for granted).

It's not just traps. I'm looking in general for more things other than "kill this monster" as challenges. Being able to put a heavily trapped door where the PC's want to go and have it be an interesting encounter, rather than "I roll the dice until it goes away." Or having them be able to sneak into the castle without having to leave the melee behind.

Moogleking
2011-01-05, 03:12 PM
Holding a fort against an attack? You can set up traps as defenses and sneak your way through to assassinate commanders and whatnot, as a way of starting counter attacks. Plus everyone gets involved in the actual battle preparation anyway; You have your traps, the party mages can help a little there, as well as with buffs, the party face can inspire the troops and negotiate for more aid from local towns, the fighter can train the new recruits and so on.

WarKitty
2011-01-06, 02:38 PM
Holding a fort against an attack? You can set up traps as defenses and sneak your way through to assassinate commanders and whatnot, as a way of starting counter attacks. Plus everyone gets involved in the actual battle preparation anyway; You have your traps, the party mages can help a little there, as well as with buffs, the party face can inspire the troops and negotiate for more aid from local towns, the fighter can train the new recruits and so on.

I'll keep that in mind, although motivating my PC's to want to hold a fort is difficult.

Any ideas for the traditional "sneak into the castle" type of quest?

Earthwalker
2011-01-06, 02:48 PM
A standard crushing wall trap. As the walls close on the party the thief can either try to open the door or stop the walls moving in.

it is going to take rounds for the walls to complete crush the group.

At the same time ghosts of people killed by the trap appear and need to be battled. Keep the thief save and let him work. He is rolling his disable device while the group fight, there undead with coicealment he can't sneak attack them anyway.

Or

a trap hall, a large room filled with traps and monsters. The traps are controled by panels in the walls. Set it up so as the fight goes on the thief can use the traps to help in the fight, as well as to try to disarm ones that might hurt the group.

Talon Sky
2011-01-06, 04:02 PM
I like to use the old 'Push the Statues into the dents on the ground' trap, with a twist. The trapped room has many layers to disable, each only being available once a statue has been moved into position. One at a time, mind you, no cheating. As well, each of the indents on the floor have a magical glyph indicating which statue it belongs to. At best, the wrong statue teleports back and maybe the trap resets. At worst, there's some bad outcome....maybe the DC increases, or the trap speeds up. Using this scenario, you're:


Giving the rogue a chance to shine by disabling the trap in a set amont of time,
Giving the party strong-man a chance to shine by flexing his muscles and moving the statues around,
And giving the party spellcaster (or face) a chance to shine by correctly identifying the glyphs.


The trap in the room can be anything: walls closing in (this can have issues if they move the statues for the PCs), spikes popping up along the walls and slowly popping up towards the center of the room, or maybe even gas/water filling the room. The water one would be interesting, because maybe a little water helps move the statues but obscures the glyphs (if the water's murky).

Tyndmyr
2011-01-06, 04:11 PM
This is an excellent point.

Consider multi-stage traps that are really more encounter than trap. Multiple people need to interact with different things. It may contain puzzle elements, timed elements, etc, but the key is interactivity.

Hearing the rogue describe carefully how he detects and circumvents another arrow or pit trap generally isn't fun for anyone other than the rogue...at least, not if it's a frequent event.

The previous suggestions are specific implementations of this concept, but in general, the trap-as-encounter model leads to more engaging situations for both the rogue and everyone else.