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Beelzebub1111
2011-01-09, 09:43 AM
Okay, We're on the main hallway second floor of this god forsaken dungeon. To the east is a juggernaut that just knocked out our wizard who lies bleeding in a corridor that said juggernaut is blocking off. To the west is a troll that is presumably fire resistant leading a hydra, to the South is a Vrock. The Vrock, the Hydra, and the Troll are all mesmerized by my Robe of Scintillating Colors but I don't know for how long.

I am a 9th level cleric of kord with no spells left and 4 hit points left. The rest of the party (Cleric, Barbarian, Fighter/Theif, Psionicist) members got lost in other parts of the dungeon. I have a ring of jumping, Gauntlets of swimming and climbing, and a +2 heavy flail. I have one god abilility left, but it won't be much use (It's Strength, but my strength is already 17 and the max it can boost to is 18). I can't do anything other than cast spells or move 10 feet per round with the robe up.

We are playing 2nd edition so if the Vrock snaps out of it, it goes first, period. The juggernaut deals 10d10 if it runs me over, and hydra...well it's a hydra. I might be able to kill the troll if I kill it within three rounds.

I'm asking for help, but I'm pretty sure that I'm screwed.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-09, 10:07 AM
u are screwed ! specially in the second edition. no feats, etc...

what are the spells, have some sanctuary/teleportation/hiding-like spells?

oh you can beg for a "divine intervention" of Kord ! i think all your party will die anyway, the wizard is almost dead, you will be, the fighter or rogue will not be able to resurrect you.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-09, 10:10 AM
I said that I have no spells left. And praying for divine intervention is out of the question. Other party members have abused that too much in the past.

Coidzor
2011-01-09, 10:14 AM
Go north so they eat/fight over the wizard and forget about you so that you can get to some cubbyhole where you can rest?

That said, other than the long shot of divine intervention it does seem like you're dead and your body just hasn't had it messily reminded yet since you're out of tools and all of these things are bearing down on you at once... Unless there's some hole in the ceiling such that you could climb and/or jump up through it.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-09, 10:19 AM
Go north so they eat/fight over the wizard and forget about you so that you can get to some cubbyhole where you can rest?

That said, other than the long shot of divine intervention it does seem like you're dead and your body just hasn't had it messily reminded yet since you're out of tools and all of these things are bearing down on you at once... Unless there's some hole in the ceiling such that you could climb and/or jump up through it.
I'm not sure that Kord will approve of running away...

Great...Looks like this is going to turn out to be one hell of a birthday.

Coidzor
2011-01-09, 10:30 AM
I'm not sure that Kord will approve of running away...

Hey, divine intervention's been removed from the game, after all.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-09, 10:54 AM
I can't do anything other than cast spells or move 10 feet per round with the robe up.

it is why i misunderstood.

how come they abused of divine interventions at your level...

onthetown
2011-01-09, 10:59 AM
...we're playing through ToEE in our campaign and we're close to getting to the second floor. Thanks for the heads up. :smalleek:

But yeah, looks like you're screwed. Run back to the town and restrategize.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-09, 11:04 AM
...we're playing through ToEE in our campaign and we're close to getting to the second floor. Thanks for the heads up. :smalleek:

But yeah, looks like you're screwed. Run back to the town and restrategize.
Protip, don't make a lot of noise when fighting the werewolves, Don't split up to get the octagonal room from different angles and DO NOT POUR THE BOTTLES ON THE FIRE. The psionicist really screwed the pooch on that last one.



how come they abused of divine interventions at your level...
Older characters have creatively used it for easy buttons out of tough situations to skip dungeons. Barrier Peaks was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-09, 11:06 AM
the only way i see is to deal a pact with the vrock , after all they are demons, for example: tell him you will renounce to Kord and follow an evil god or demon prince (demons always delight of watching a "pure" fall into darkness) if he help you to survive and you will give him human sacrifices as reward.

Matthew
2011-01-09, 11:27 AM
Well, I doubt Kord will really mind if you decide to recognise the overwhelming strength of your foes and retreat to marshal your own. The ring of jumping might be useful for getting past, or maybe leaping onto the ceiling with your gauntlets of climbing. Running away is pretty much the order of the day.

elonin
2011-01-09, 11:33 AM
+1

I'm presuming that you don't have potions etc?

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-09, 05:37 PM
This sucks...I know you guys are right, but if I do run and live
1)I will never live it down. I'm still getting crap for when I was on the Illithid homeworld with another character and ran from a giant spider
2)I don't think I can leave an ally to die like that

Any alternatives?

Lord Loss
2011-01-09, 06:00 PM
Any alternatives?

Not really. If you're near the wizard you could grab him and still move at your normal speed (at 18 str, you should be able to carry him), but I would just bolt. A living cleric that can raise the rest of the party is far better than a dead party.

Dreadn4ught
2011-01-09, 06:02 PM
the only way i see is to deal a pact with the vrock , after all they are demons, for example: tell him you will renounce to Kord and follow an evil god or demon prince (demons always delight of watching a "pure" fall into darkness) if he help you to survive and you will give him human sacrifices as reward.

This is definitely the best idea. You have no choice, unless of course there's a way to escape. Look EVERYWHERE for a way to escape. If there is none, then go ahead and surrender yourself to evil.:smallbiggrin:

Edit: No escape? Disregard the first part of my post.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-09, 10:02 PM
once you walk the "Dark Side" you will learn his true power, you will be free from the chains who bounded you, you will bow the world to your will...

ok mechanically each alignment changes will cost you one level (better that than die), nothing will prevent you to later atoned to Kord if you really want .

in a RP view, it is very interesting, if you follow the Dark Side, you can ask your new demon Prince/evil god, to hide the fact that you were turned (it is what they do generally), and act as a spy and you may be the betrayer inside the church (converting the weak minds in the church to your new patron like Dark Sidious). evil gods highly value the new "fallen ones" specially clerics/paladins , they will help you more often (secretly sending demons to help you,etc...), give you magical items, etc...

if you follow that way, you must tell to your DM to keep it secret to the rest of your party, this situation may even add spice in your campaign, you may have secret missions inside you quest from your secret evil patron in exchange of power, etc...

this is what my character did when i was in the same situation than you, and i survived until now ^^

Thurbane
2011-01-10, 12:55 AM
This thread reminds me of how much I enjoyed playing ToEE back in our 1E and 2E days...I have to convince the guy who DMd it back then to run the 3.5 conversion for us some time! :smallsmile:

umbrapolaris
2011-01-10, 01:59 AM
This thread reminds me of how much I enjoyed playing ToEE back in our 1E and 2E days...I have to convince the guy who DMd it back then to run the 3.5 conversion for us some time! :smallsmile:

me too, it is the best campaign ever.

turkishproverb
2011-01-10, 02:29 AM
This thread reminds me of how much I enjoyed playing ToEE back in our 1E and 2E days...I have to convince the guy who DMd it back then to run the 3.5 conversion for us some time! :smallsmile:

Which conversion? ToEE or RtToEE?

Thurbane
2011-01-10, 03:42 AM
Which conversion? ToEE or RtToEE?
Well, both would be nice! :smallbiggrin:

I bought 3.0 RttToEE from Amazon (at a hefty price, I might add) and d/l the user made 3.5 conversion notes.

I also downloaded the user made 3.5 conversion notes for 1E ToEE, and my group owns a couple of copies of the original.

...if I had to chose, I think my fondness for the original 1E module would win out.

Heliomance
2011-01-10, 06:50 AM
I Read This As Temple of Emmental Evil.

Cheese golems! Possessed edam! Cheese markets of the damned!

Rasman
2011-01-10, 07:03 AM
you sound pretty boned to me, Frankly, the wizard is toast, you can try to escape, let them have at him and always come back for what is left of the corpse if he doesn't want to reroll...that's honestly your best option.

Killer Angel
2011-01-10, 07:32 AM
The suggestions are valid, but a bad point is: if you die while trying to escape, Kord won't exactly welcome your soul... :smallamused:

hamlet
2011-01-10, 09:50 AM
This sucks...I know you guys are right, but if I do run and live
1)I will never live it down. I'm still getting crap for when I was on the Illithid homeworld with another character and ran from a giant spider
2)I don't think I can leave an ally to die like that

Any alternatives?

It's not retreating/running, it's tactical redeoployment.

Make no pacts with the Vrock. It will end in heartache.

1) Possibly approach the troll with a bribe if you have cash to let you by, or even help you against the juggernaut to retrieve your wizard friend.

2) Use gloves to creep along the cieling past the juggernaut (he doesn't go all the way up and you should be able to get past).

3) Suicidal charge against one of your foes.

4) Stall briefly with the intelligent monsters (have them argue over who gets to eat you) while the juggernaut catches up. Let it deal with them while you slip away.

5) Do you have a 10' pole?

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-10, 10:20 AM
It's not retreating/running, it's tactical redeoployment.

Make no pacts with the Vrock. It will end in heartache.

1) Possibly approach the troll with a bribe if you have cash to let you by, or even help you against the juggernaut to retrieve your wizard friend.

2) Use gloves to creep along the cieling past the juggernaut (he doesn't go all the way up and you should be able to get past).

3) Suicidal charge against one of your foes.

4) Stall briefly with the intelligent monsters (have them argue over who gets to eat you) while the juggernaut catches up. Let it deal with them while you slip away.

5) Do you have a 10' pole?

Thank you, this is the kind of advice I need. I don't have a 10 foot pole. I probably should have mentioned that I am a dwarf and thus I don't honestly think that I can outrun the TROLL much less the vrock.

hamlet
2011-01-11, 07:51 AM
Thank you, this is the kind of advice I need. I don't have a 10 foot pole. I probably should have mentioned that I am a dwarf and thus I don't honestly think that I can outrun the TROLL much less the vrock.

Let us know what happened in the end.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-11, 11:40 AM
he will die, how come he can escape a demon just by climbing walls...the pact is his best option.

hamlet
2011-01-11, 12:07 PM
he will die, how come he can escape a demon just by climbing walls...the pact is his best option.

Demons in AD&D were significantly less powerful than they are in 3ed, though in 2nd ed that got a power boost as well.

Also, it's not a matter of escaping a demon just by climbing the walls. It's a matter of escaping the demon by either putting the juggernaut between him and it (the juggernaut is a match for a Vrock with a bit of luck) or by bribing the troll to use his power and the power of the pyro-hydra to fend off the demon while he runs for better prospects.

Bargaining with a demon is like expecting the CEO of your company to have your interests at heart when deciding who gets axed in the next round of layoffs.

Magesmiley
2011-01-11, 12:24 PM
Um, ok... you're probably screwed, but it might be worth taking a long shot and go down fighting.

Does the wizard have anything that might save the day? If he does, the thought of trying to jump over the juggernaut to reach him comes to mind (you mentioned a ring of jumping). Make sure that you offer a prayer to Kord as you attempt this.

Another thought... the juggernaut isn't intelligent if I recall. Lure it towards you and the other monsters that are currently mesmerized. Try to line things up so that if it goes to attack you that there is something else behind you for it to give its attention to. Be ready to try to use your ring to jump over the thing when it attacks (prayers to Kord are again encouraged). You might even be able to jump up and catch onto something high up with the gauntlets. It might work if the DM is feeling generous.

umbrapolaris
2011-01-11, 12:38 PM
the vrock fly , it don't care about the juggernaut, troll or hydra, it will not fight them and even if it is forced , it will summon another vrock. the Vrock will focus on the the player (the weakest first), one-shot him and then teleport.

Foryn Gilnith
2011-01-11, 01:27 PM
the Vrock will focus on the the player (the weakest first), one-shot him and then teleport.

That seems somewhat less than obvious from the OP's (nonexistent) description of the way his DMs play monsters, as well as seeming unusually clear-minded for a demon.

Mark Hall
2011-01-11, 02:21 PM
Charge the Juggernaut, leap over with the ring of jumping, and use your gauntlets of climbing to get away. That leaves you with the Vrock to contend with, since it can fly, but it's probably going to be having fun with the troll and the hydra ANYWAY.

Basically, there's nothing you can do about the vrock; in your case, if the DM wants to kill you with it, he can, no problem. So, deal with the problems you CAN handle, and give your DM a convincing reason why the vrock isn't interested in you.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-11, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the advice, much to consider. And some additional information
1) We were in the middle of combat when the session ended. The first thing that's happening when we start on wednesday is rolling initative for the new round.
2) One of the DMs houserules is that when you are knocked out, you lose all your spells, so the wizard won't have any, either
3) Yes, I'm probably going to die...which is going to SUUUUUUCK since our rod of resurrection only has 4 charges left, so I'm going to end up losing a con point. And that's only IF the rest of the party wants to drag both our asses back to Homlet.

Magesmiley
2011-01-11, 05:15 PM
Thanks for the advice, much to consider. And some additional information
2) One of the DMs houserules is that when you are knocked out, you lose all your spells, so the wizard won't have any, either

But does he have any useful magic items you can grab to save the two of you?

umbrapolaris
2011-01-11, 10:03 PM
2) One of the DMs houserules is that when you are knocked out, you lose all your spells, so the wizard won't have any, either

your DM is nice , ours said when we are KO, we are helpless... so any creature can "coup de grace" us...


Are you far from the wizard, the way to reach him, it is blocked by a creature? if not go wake up with a kick ! and HOW COME YOUR PARTY IS DISPERSED ! the first thing we learn in a squad is to be together at sight view.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-12, 09:36 AM
He's blocked by the Juggernaut. I don't think the wizard has anything that I can use.


wake up with a kick
I doubt he'd appreciate that seeing as how he's bleeding out. and will die in about 5 rounds (till he reaches the negative of how many hit points he started with, in his case -6)


HOW COME YOUR PARTY IS DISPERSED !
The Fighter/Theif and the Barbarian went off to fight trolls that ran away. The elf cleric got nailed by a fear effect from the barbarian's weapon. The Psionicist went searching for a "magic bullet" to save everybody and, in his attempt, he ended up releasing the vrock, our other thief died earlier in the dungeon from a poison trap.


I'll let everybody know how it goes after tonight.

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 09:38 AM
You guys never heard the song, have you?

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-12, 09:39 AM
You guys never heard the song, have you?
Song? the one in your sig?

to which line to you refer?

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 09:44 AM
Song? the one in your sig?

to which line to you refer?

Don't you know? You never split the party. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waa2ucfgVgQ)

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-13, 12:29 AM
Well, I stalled for a round, I attacked the vrock for a mighty 4 points of damage (God damn I'm really starting to hate 2nd ed) when the rest of the party showed up. I managed to dodge the juggernaut when it came rolling my way and into the hydra. I got to the downed wizard, patching him up on the first try. I used his spoon of stirring to change his potions (after nine rounds of trying, and changing three potions) and I eventually got a potion of extra healing. By the time we got back the Barbarian had downed one vrock and was downed by another. The rest of the party fought...and eventually won, but by the time we got there everyone was being attacked by a Misty Grue that froze people and. I was pulling the gnome fighter/Thief to safety when the Grue got me from behind. The psionicist managed to drive it off. The conscious members of the party decided to hide out in the werewolf secret room while the psionicist would stealthily look around for the missing cleric by using shadowform.

That's where we left off.

FUN!

hamlet
2011-01-13, 08:20 AM
Nifty. Seems you did relatively well all things considered.

You're in a better position now to survive and you even managed to rescue a friend plus the group is more or less back together with only one MIA.

I call that a positive, though mixed, result!

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-13, 08:42 AM
Nifty. Seems you did relatively well all things considered.

You're in a better position now to survive and you even managed to rescue a friend plus the group is more or less back together with only one MIA.

I call that a positive, though mixed, result!
yeah...a little anticlimatic, but one thing that does not bode well is that the DM just LOVES wandering monsters. I'm pretty sure that if we don't get our asses out of there FAST, we'll be dead anyways.

Coidzor
2011-01-13, 08:45 AM
yeah...a little anticlimatic, but one thing that does not bode well is that the DM just LOVES wandering monsters. I'm pretty sure that if we don't get our asses out of there FAST, we'll be dead anyways.

All the more reason for your guys to stop wandering too far from the main body of the group so that you don't pull more monsters into the fight than he would've added anyway.

Matthew
2011-01-13, 09:10 AM
Good stuff!

hamlet
2011-01-13, 09:35 AM
yeah...a little anticlimatic, but one thing that does not bode well is that the DM just LOVES wandering monsters. I'm pretty sure that if we don't get our asses out of there FAST, we'll be dead anyways.

That's kind of an AD&D thing, the wandering monster. It can really add spice to the game, and make the players' lives a living hell with some bad luck on the dice.

The real key to surviving this kind of environment is manifold:

1) Don't bite off more than you can chew. Set an attainable goal, and pursue it until you're ready to back off. Then back off. Avoid "one more door" syndrome. It's bad for your health.

2) Learn the joys of being quiet. Quiet parties that don't argue endlessly at the top of their lungs while tromping around in heavy metal armor attract less attention from unsavories.

3) Success is not measured in killing monsters, but in removing treasure. Better rewards can be had from avoiding monsters and stealing their treasures out from under them.

4) Carry enough cash around that you can bribe monsters you suspect you can't fight. It works.

5) Carry enough cash around that you can bribe the DM. It works.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-13, 11:57 AM
That's kind of an AD&D thing, the wandering monster. It can really add spice to the game, and make the players' lives a living hell with some bad luck on the dice.

I'm actually starting to get sick of playing a cleric 2nd Ed AD&D. When you critical hit, roll max damage, and do 10, while the fighters are swinging for 20 damage on normal hits twice or three times around, and when the monsters have a 75%+ chance to ignore any magic and get a save that they have a 75% chance to make on top of it, it starts to get frustrating. Oh sure, I could take three rounds to buff myself up to swing for as much damage as them, but by then everyone else already killed everything. And let's not even get into how saving throws work.

evil-frosty
2011-01-13, 12:09 PM
Ya clerics sucked in earlier editions since you couldnt do much except buff a little and then heal.

Matthew
2011-01-13, 12:14 PM
I'm actually starting to get sick of playing a cleric 2nd Ed AD&D. When you critical hit, roll max damage, and do 10, while the fighters are swinging for 20 damage on normal hits twice or three times around, and when the monsters have a 75%+ chance to ignore any magic and get a save that they have a 75% chance to make on top of it, it starts to get frustrating. Oh sure, I could take three rounds to buff myself up to swing for as much damage as them, but by then everyone else already killed everything. And let's not even get into how saving throws work.

Heh; yeah, clerics are actually one of the most powerful classes in AD&D, but not in combat. Versus undead and in the political and religious arena they are great, and defensively they are excellent, but offensively they are not up to much. Low damage weapons and strength limits really hurt. It is not so bad if you are using weapon versus armour modifiers or even just fighting medium-sized creatures, but once you mix weapon specialisation in they fall from a second class fighter to third class.

JonestheSpy
2011-01-13, 12:18 PM
You know, D&D just doesn't seem as thrilling now that they let people use a Lifeline in the middle of combat...

Mark Hall
2011-01-13, 12:19 PM
Gotta say... the fight sounds awesome.

hamlet
2011-01-13, 12:34 PM
Yeah, like Matthew said, Clerics are extremely powerful, just not in the knockdown drag out fight sense of the term.

There are a few spells that are VERY beneficial. Learn and love the Prayer spell. Combine with Bless and Chant and Aid and you can turn a buddy (who will stand between you and the folks with nasty pointy things) into an unstoppable killing machine. Better still if you can convince your mage buddy to cast Enlarge upon him as well. Nothing says lovin' like X% more damage per hit.

But, if your stats are high enough, you can dual class into fighter and, after a little while, retain your spell casting and turning abilities.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-19, 11:51 PM
Game ended early tonight.

Wizard One-Shoted Zuggtmoy with a mace of disruption on a single attack while she was invisible. He had a scroll of protection from plants, drank a potion of glibbness to distract her, then a potion of speed. rolled a 97% on mixing potions to get 150% effectiveness. On the first hit, obliterated her on an 03.

We were about to leave anyway but she blocked our exit wanting to know how we got through the first two doors.

The look on the dm's face...PRICELESS

The downside is that my character was still unconscious through the whole ordeal.

Matthew
2011-01-20, 05:02 AM
Ha, ha; poor thing. :smallbiggrin:

hamlet
2011-01-20, 08:24 AM
Game ended early tonight.

Wizard One-Shoted Zuggtmoy with a mace of disruption on a single attack while she was invisible. He had a scroll of protection from plants, drank a potion of glibbness to distract her, then a potion of speed. rolled a 97% on mixing potions to get 150% effectiveness. On the first hit, obliterated her on an 03.

We were about to leave anyway but she blocked our exit wanting to know how we got through the first two doors.

The look on the dm's face...PRICELESS

The downside is that my character was still unconscious through the whole ordeal.

That's very awesome, even if you, personally, were a vegetable at the time. Don't forget that you were part of the party and contributed to success. You earned at least some of the bragging rights!

One shot a demon queen. Awesome.

Course, now he's got a very angry demon queen cooling her sprouts in the Abyss, waiting for her banishment to expire and come back to seek revenge.

I'd be carefull if I were you. No Mushroom Soup for you.

Malbordeus
2011-01-20, 09:29 AM
i'm not sure I could live with out the shroom. :'(

Starbuck_II
2011-01-20, 09:47 AM
Congrats, glad everything worked out.

Mark Hall
2011-01-20, 12:56 PM
The look on the dm's face...PRICELESS


WOW. That's awesome. St. Cuthbert is gonna LOVE that guy ("You mean you defeated her... in one shot... with a STICK? Man, have I got a hat for you!")

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-20, 05:30 PM
WOW. That's awesome. St. Cuthbert is gonna LOVE that guy ("You mean you defeated her... in one shot... with a STICK? Man, have I got a hat for you!")

I immagine her sitting in the Abyss

Jubilex: What's wrong honey?
Zug: I don't wanna talk about it...

As far as I know, the wizard that did her in is loyal to boccob, so unless he gets some really nice stuff from the temple, he won't care.

hamlet
2011-01-24, 08:31 AM
Never look the generosity of a deity, any good aligned deity, in the mouth.

It's just bad form.

Mark Hall
2011-01-24, 05:22 PM
I immagine her sitting in the Abyss

Jubilex: What's wrong honey?
Zug: I don't wanna talk about it...

As far as I know, the wizard that did her in is loyal to boccob, so unless he gets some really nice stuff from the temple, he won't care.


Never look the generosity of a deity, any good aligned deity, in the mouth.

It's just bad form.

Well, to be pedantic, Cuthbert is LN, trending towards good (unlike Wee Jas, who is LN, trending towards evil).

That said, there's not a particular reason to look Cuthbert's beneficence in the mouth... unless he's demanding exclusive worship from you, or some other actions. If he's just rewarding you, smile, say "Thank you very much, Your Godliness" and take the neat toy he gives you. :smallbiggrin:

hamlet
2011-01-25, 08:33 AM
Well, to be pedantic, Cuthbert is LN, trending towards good (unlike Wee Jas, who is LN, trending towards evil).

That said, there's not a particular reason to look Cuthbert's beneficence in the mouth... unless he's demanding exclusive worship from you, or some other actions. If he's just rewarding you, smile, say "Thank you very much, Your Godliness" and take the neat toy he gives you. :smallbiggrin:

For all intents and purposes, Cuthbert is Good. The reason he's LN is because his methodology tends to stray out of the nice range of goodness. You know, what with the cudgeling of unbelievers and all.

Pholtus is largely the same.

But, yeah, lesson learned is, be nice to the deity that's doing nice things for you.