Magitech in DnD 3.5e (PEACH)

[Welknair]

Edit Introduction: Wow, quite a lot has happened since I first posted this. When I originally posted this I did not know how large it would become. I've been sporadically editing it and it is in a state of near-constant flux. As such, the organization is a bit wonky and I realize that. I'm intending to actually publish a book featuring this system in addition to a deal of other material. Great fun. I'm always open to suggestions. Ask anyone here or even just read through some of the posts. I take suggestions to heart and make steps to fix apparent problems. I also just love hearing about it. If you choose to use this in your game (which you can feel free to do) I'd love to hear about how it goes. Now back to the original opening:

I have a Thuerge player who frequently tries to design new magic items and contraptions based upon existing spells, items, effects, etc. This often leads to useful new devices that I would expect someone to have created before.

In my game world, there was a large island inhabited by a group of individuals extremely gifted in the Arcane Ways, and they built many great cities. Well, my player asked "So, are there magic items everywhere or something?".

If you you don't have the Heroes of Battle book, it details an interesting prestige class called the "War Weaver". The general idea is that the War Weaver makes an "Eldritch Tapestry" to connect a group of people (number based on class level, of course) and then when a buff spell is cast by the weaver, it affects all connected. What if the city used a similar form of technology, but instead of connecting people, you connected objects. Then cast "Light" into the Tapestry. And what if you had the tapestry specifically touching orbs in various houses. "Let there be Light!"

And then I kept extrapolating what the city would look like if it were inhabited almost entirely by a population of at least level 1 wizards (Public Education?). I kept on extrapolating existing principles, until I had made something amazing. The major result was a sort of magical wiring, involving a combination of the modified tapestry (now made as a magic item), a modified principle from the Rod of Absorption, and a modified Runestaff.

I decided that the Tapestry would be allowed to carry the effects of certain spells to what it's ends touch, or it could carry general spell energy, with each end having a set direction of power flow. The Rod of Absorption proved that we could reliably store spell energy, and I created the "Battery", a device that simply holds spell energy. Alone it does nothing (except explode if you manage to bust it). Lastly the Runestaff allows us to channel whatever type of magic we please to create the effects listed in the staff (albeit at a max of 3/day). Runestaves are a bit expensive, so I devised the Runestone. A device with identical pricing, but it can only hold up to one third level spell.

Well, by default the systems attached to the tapestry want to go off, drawing energy from the network. To prevent this, triggers are often used. The Basic Trigger is a simple mechanical device that when flipped/pushed/pressed/turned slides a piece of lead in front of the tapestry line, blocking the flow of magic. For Runestaves and controlling more advanced systems, you want an Advanced Trigger system, usually attached to a Display (Really just a Silent Image Runestone.)

Anyways..

Battery ----> Tapestry ---l--> Runestone of Scorching Ray

Sorry, did I just make a Ray Gun?

It's scary, but it makes sense.

The Principles

Equivalence: Two spells of second level have the power of a single fourth level spell. Similarly, a first and a third level spell also equal a fourth level spell. We know this from the Rod of Absorption. It is somewhat contrasted with the Sorcerer's "Versatile Spellcasting" feat, which allows two slots to be used to fuel a spell one slot above them (Two second level slots would allow you to cast Fireball). This is due to the Sorcerer expending some of the combined energy to combine the spells. The amount of energy required for this is proportional to the spells being combined. The result is that the resulting spell is a single level higher than the used slots.
Ambiguity: Spell energy is spell energy. How it affects the world is dependent upon it's conduit. This allows us to channel "Ambiguous" spell energy through Runestaves and Runestones (Described later) to produce an effect that has nothing to do with the powering spell.
Multiplication: A properly formed "Tapestry" can transmit the effect of a spell capable of targeting an object to various objects attached to the Tapestry, multiplying the effect, but not the cost. We know this from the Eldritch Tapestries made by War Weavers (Heroes of War PrC)
Transmission: Tapestries are capable of transmitting spell energy across distances, without the need of a caster to direct it. Again, the Eldritch Tapestries made by the War Weavers.
Imitation: Magic items mimic life. Between "Magic Items always get saves" and the ability to spend a negligible amount to make "Sentient Magic Items", one can certainly see how Magic Items can pretend at life, at least for the purpose of being the target of spells. Most magic items get a few boons from this (See "Always get saves"), but "Tapestry Constructs", entire devices made with this system and laced with Tapestries, get one step closer. They have a circulatory system, a heart, maybe even muscles and a mind! Spells get confused, at least some of them. Later on I describe how certain spells affect Tapestry Constructs as if they were creatures.
Energy Movement: Power seeks to balance itself. Fire disperses its heat. Lightning arcs to a grounding point. The rock falls off the cliff and stops. The power flows from the battery into the Tapestry and then into a Runstone or Staff, if nothing stops it. Unless you have a trigger of some sort, your systems will fire automatically.
Too much of Anything is Bad: Too much matter in one spot? Black hole. Too much icecream? Barf. More than five spells cast in the same round within five feet of each other? Explosion.

These Principles govern this system. Learn them and the rest will be pretty intuitive.

Descriptions

Batteries are generally a sort of green crystal, with an Adamantine Coating, along with glowing green sealing sigils.

Charging Crystals look much like Batteries, but are Red.

Experience Capacitors are similarly Golden.

Tapestries are generally a silver color, that glows when powered. Ephemeral Tapestries always glow a dull blue, becoming brighter when powered.

Databanks are small (usually small) blue crystals, like a battery, minus the coating.

Runestones are grey stones carved with various runes that light up when powered.

World-Building
With the ability to physical fly very fast, one could potentially make all sorts of interesting cosmologies. One such is described below:



Basicly there are multiple Material Planes. They are grouped together in relatively small groups (2-5) orbiting a core consisting of the elemental and positive/negative energy planes. Between them is the Astral Plane, forming a bubble around the entire group. This bubble is then in the Deep Astral (pretty much pure void) which contains a possibly infinite number of Astral Planes, each with their own material and inner planes.

It would be possible to actually travel between planes of this nature without the need for Conjuration spells. If you go up (or whatever direction) long enough on any Material Plane, you'll eventually enter the Astral Plane. Go far enough from there, and you enter the Deep Astral, and you'd be able to see the Infinite Astrals.

The Deep Astral Barrier is very powerful, however, and requires Epic Magic to get through. You cannot Planeshift through it.

The Outer Planes are completely set apart from the rest of the cosmology. Conjuration spells involving them act normally, but no one is sure how they work in relation to the rest of the cosmos.


Then there would be an Epic-Spell that allows Inter-Astral travel, a sort of "Warp Drive" used for traversing the "Solar Systems". You can see how you can play with this.

Moving actual rule stuff up here now...

Feats:


Craft Tapestry [Item Creation]
Prequisite: CL 5
Benefit: This feat allows a spellcaster to create a Tapestry, a weaving of metal and magic allowing the connection of multiple objects such that a single spell may affect all of them. The size, cost, ends, weight, and effective Caster Level are based upon the level of the Tapestry. The default size is small, with the tapestry potentially covering about a medium sized creature or item. Working larger or smaller is a bit more expensive as the work requires precision and each piece must be very exact.



Max Ends
CL
Cost


2
5
500


2
5
5,000


3
6
6,000


5
7
7,000


10
8
8,000


15
9
9,000


25
10
10,000


50
11
11,000


75
12
12,000


100
13
13,000


150
14
14,000


250
15
15,000


250
16
16,000


Stays 250
+1
+1000



Max Ends: Maximum number of things that can be connected to the tapestry.
CL: The CL required to make it as well as the effective CL for effects powered by the Tapestry
Cost: Market Price. Price is equal to the CL X 1000. However, the price becomes 2000 per caster level at 21 and up. (A CL 30 Tapestry would cost 40,000)

The top tapestry cannot activate devices, has no cost adjustment for Fine to Large, and is called a "Transmission Tapestry"

If for some reason you get a Tapesty which has a CL lower than 5 (As through a couple of class abilities or Negative Level effects) the minimum number of ends is 2.

For sizes:



Size
CL
Price Mod
Weight


Fine
11
+6,000
1


Diminutive
9
+4,000
2


Tiny
7
+2,000
3


Small
5
+0
7


Medium
6
+2,000
20


Large
7
+4,000
50


Huge
8
+6,000
150


Gargantuan
9
+8,000
250


Colossal (Infinite size)
21
+20,000
500



A Tapestry covers an object one size category above it (a Tiny Tapestry could power a robotic Halfling (which are awesome at parties))

A Tapestry can be upgraded to a higher level easily (Hey look, one day's work) and the size can be changed. You can quickly change the size towards small for no cost, but re-stretching requires that you pay the cost again.

A Tapestry's level determines the CL of all spells powered by it.

DC= 10+Spell Level+Minimum Modifier (Min modifier would be 1 for a second level spell, four for an eighth, etc.)

A Tapestry may be enchanted with two metamagic feats for a cost of 2000 per spell slot adjustment. The two feats must be able to be used in conjunction with one another (You can't have Empower and Maximize, for example). Epic Level Tapestries can hold more than two, these need not be able to be used together, but each Metamagic beyond the second costs an additional 5k per feat beyond the 2nd. So getting a third feat would cost (Third Feat's Spell Adjustment)X1000+5000.

When you gain this feat you gain an odd "Kind-of-Metamagic" feat specifically for enchanting Tapestries. It isn't really a feat, but is treated as one for this purpose. It is treated as causing a two slot adjustment and brings the DC of all spells of a designated school up to 10+2XSpell Level, which can be quite useful.

Minimum CL for spells applies for tapestries casting runestone/staff spells. So you can't have a CL 5 Tapestry casting Meteor Swarm. Once a power Tap is CL 21+, it has no limit on the level of spell that it can cast.

Some clarification as to the two separate CLs: You need to have the higher of the two. The base cost of the tapestry is equal to the actual CL of the Tap X1000. You cannot make a Tapestry with a CL higher than you have. Then the size is just a price modifier on top of that base cost, and you cannot make certain sizes until your CL is high enough. The CLs of these two factors are unrelated save for you must have a CL equal to or greater than the higher of the two. You do not need to bump the CL of the Tapestry up to meet the CL required of the creator for the given size.

It is worth noting that when a tapestry is made, it is designated as an Arcane Tapestry, Divine Tapestry, or Information Tapestry. Arcane Tapestries only can activate and channel Arcane spell energy, Divine Tapestries channel Divine magic, and Information Tapestries transmit information from various devices to be explained later. This choice cannot be changed.

For the Arcane/Divine tapestries, each ending has a set direction, To or From. This can be changed, though it requires a bit of time.

Tapestries as described above are used for the purpose of transmitting raw spell energy as from batteries, to runestones/staves. They also have the capability to do something described in the first post: Deliver a spell effect to multiple attached objects. If a spell of 3rd level or lower, capable of targeting any object, is cast with the Tapestry as the target, the effect travels to up to 25 objects attached to the ends of the tapestry. This takes into consideration the direction of the ends (the effect will only travel through "Out" ends). If a runestone is hooked up with the correct kind of power tapestry with an "Out" end, as in the power is moving from the stone to the tapestry, it acts as if the stone cast the spell on said tapestry. This spell uses all the information from the tapestry that feeds it (Arcane Tapestry with CL 10--->Runestone of Light---->Arcane Tapestry with 5 ends will result in the objects on the five ends lighting up for 100 minutes). If the tapestry being affected has greater than 25 out ends, it is random which ones are affected. Info Tapestries do not have this capability. When a Tapestry is the target of a spell as to Multiply it, it does not charge attached batteries. The energy in this case is not being directed at the Batteries, which is required for them to be charged. Instead you may end up with glowing Batteries from the Multiplied Light Spell. Similarly, you cannot Multiply a spell more than once by connecting various power Tapestries; you just get glowing tapestries. The Multiplication Effect assumes a full spell targeting the Tap, not a fraction of one.

When power is sent into a Tapestry - Raw, charging power, not activating power - it is evenly dispersed among all available batteries. So if you attach a Charging Crystal, described later, to a tapestry with multiple batteries, the charge would choose one at random, assuming that both had room.

When creating a tapestry, you also have the option to set one of the ends to be an "Easy Swap" end, which allows sections that are easily interchangeable. The base price of making an end interchangeable is 1,000 gp. Components being attached, removed, or swapped onto said end require only a move action to do so, instead of the much longer process described in the Magitech Skill near the bottom.


Craft Ephemeral Tapestry [Item Creation]
Prequisite: CL 12, Craft Tapestry
Benefit: This feat allows you to craft Ephemeral Tapestries, they work exactly like normal tapestries, but cost an additional 2,000 gp per size category (+2,000 for fine, +4,000 for Diminutive, etc.). In return, the tapestry move into the ethereal plane, but remains very close to the material plane, such that the threads can be seen as a dim glowing blue. An Ephemeral Tapestry takes no space and weighs nothing.


Craft Magitech [Item Creation]
Prequisite: CL 7, Craft Tapestry, Magitech 10 Ranks
Benefit: This feat allows you to construct/enchant Runestones, Batteries, Interfaces, and Databanks. It'll get you going on the road to Magitechnological Advancement.

Batteries store spell levels. You can easily cast a spell into a battery and it'll just add to the charge. A battery can only hold one kind of magic. Once depleted, either kind can be put in, but once it has a charge of one kind, the other is incompatible. Batteries are the most costly component in Magitech and as such they are highly prized. The only way to liberate energy from a Battery is to connect it to a tapestry of the correct type and have the tapestry then connect to a runestone or runestaff.



Size
Capacity
CL
Weight


Diminutive
1-5
7
5


Tiny
6-15
8
15


Small
16-25
10
25


Medium
26-50
12
50


Large
51-150
14
150


Huge
151-250
16
250


Gargantuan
251-500
18
500


Colossal
500-750
20
750


Colossal
751-1000
21
1000


(Colossal under these circumstances is 25X25X25 and 30X30X30 for the last two batteries)

The cost of a battery is Charge X 1,000.

You can make a battery out of a rare magical catalyst for the cost of Charge X 500 in addition to the normal cost, thus reducing the amount of space the battery takes. Such a battery assumes the the size and weight of the next battery up, and is known as a Catalyst Battery.

A Battery is a bit volatile, as it holds raw spell energy. As such, it's a bit prone to... release upon breach. As in, if you can bypass it's hardness of 20 and deal 30 damage to it, it'll bust. Explosively. An exploding battery will deal 1d6 damage per spell level in a radius of 5 ft. For each additional 5 ft that the burst travels, damage is reduced by three. In this way, an epic level battery containing 1000 spell levels could decimate an area with a radius of a mile. Yes, I made a spell that allows you to detonate a battery on command to use it as a bomb. People within the blast radius may make a Reflex Save at DC 15+2 per size category of the battery (With the Too Much is Bad Principle, it effectively has the size of the smallest battery that can hold all of the charges) to take half damage. The Epic Level Batteries would count as Size 9, while a Diminutive would be Size 1. So an exploding Gargantuan Battery would call for a Reflex Save DC 26. Batteries are always completely destroyed when they detonate. The explosion travels at a relatively slow rate of 2000ft/round. This won't make much of a difference unless you're just at the edge of a monstrous explosion, but hey. It's there. (The explosion will be slowed by passing through corridors and the like if it can't break them).

At-will spells and abilities cannot charge a battery. No Warlock slaves!

If a Battery is the subject of a successful Dispel Magic aimed at it, the battery loses charge. If it was an Area Dispel, the battery only loses a single charge. Otherwise, the amount lost is based on the opposed CL check. For every one that the Dispeller beat the Battery's roll by, the Battery loses one charge.

It's also possible to make a... slightly different kind of battery. One capable of holding XP. It is made the same as a normal Battery, but is golden and always requires CL 21 (and thus the Craft Epic Magitech Feat). An XP Capacitor's stats and cost are calculated the same as if it were a normal Battery, but it holds 1000X the number of spell levels it would be able to hold. This is used in conjunction with Pass On, described in the "New Spells" section. Such a device cannot be used to level up random people, but it can provide the XP for spells and magic item creation. The caster/crafter just needs to be in contact with the Capacitor for the casting process. Yes, you can make this out of the Arcane Catalyst as well.

Runestones store a single spell of up to third level such that it can be activated when the correct amount of the correct type of magic is channeled into it. The cost is equal to Spell level X Spell Level X (400-(100 for each time usable per day below 3)). So a Runestone of Fireball usable twice per day would cost: 3X3X(400-100)=2700 gp.

You can make Runestones and Runestaves where the spells can be used more than 3/day, but it comes at an increased cost. The cost is lvl*lvl*(400+100*(Amount above 2 Factorial)). (Factorial is that number plus all the numbers preceding it, so 3 Factorial is 3+2+1). A Scorching Ray stone usable 5/day would cost 2*2*(400+100*(3+2+1)), or 4*1000, 4000 gp. A steep price for increased max uses, to the point where it may be cheaper to simpler buy more stones/staves for higher level spells, but you can get them.

A runestone needs direction. By default, even a simple spell such as Acid Splash will want to repeatedly cast as long as it is supplied with power. For this reason, a basic trigger is used, comprised of a switch, knob, button, etc. that moves a tiny piece of lead (A Basic Trigger costs 10 gold). More advanced spells that can't simply be pointed at the target require a more complex trigger system. The Advanced Trigger allows an Information Tapestry to control the magic pathway and the specifics of the spell, such that a Display or Sentient Magic Item could control said device. This allows for more exact usage and the like, but is more costly and requires power (An Advanced Trigger costs 500 gp). An Information Tapestry is not needed when using simpler spells that use only a Basic Trigger. For example, you won't find Information Tapestries in most small firearms.

Note: Silent Image, Minor Image and Major Image will all return information to their casting runestone about how they're being interacted with. This allows for "Buttons" to be made using these spells.

"I want to stuff my Battery in my Bag of Holding so it weighs nothing and takes no room!" Have fun with that - the largest BoH holds 250 cubic feet, which works out to about 6.3 feet to a side so you'd only be able to hold a single Medium battery which weighs ten pounds less than the Bag of Holding. Great plan, really.

When a Runestone or Runestaff is placed in a Magitech Device, it's Target is set. Most Evocation spells are set to cast in whatever direction it's pointed. It's also possible to set it to target a nearby Tapestry as to Multiply the effect. You can Configure this setting (Magitech Skill, much later).

If a spell requires concentration then the Tapestry provides said concentration, but while focusing so it cannot channel any other energy. For this reason, many advanced systems will have specialized Tapestries specifically for concentration.

When more than five spells powered by Tapestries are cast in the same round within five feet of one another (All within the same five-foot square), they cause Magic Feedback. Effectively the casting device is subject to an explosion as if a battery containing all of the expended spell levels had just blown. This of course can be useful under certain circumstances, but generally stops Nova builds while still allowing Skyships and Mechs to work pretty well. Note that this property does not interfere with the Multiplication Principle.

Runestaves still require Craft Staff to be made. When used with this system, a separate power line must be used for each spell contained therein.

The primary benefits for using Runestone instead of Runestaves is size, and number. A Runestaff can only use a single spell per round, whereas a group of runestones could cast them in the same round. Keep in mind the Too Much Principle.

Runestones/staves can counterspell and be counterspelled. Devices can (and often do) have a setting that is "Counterspell". While in this mode, the wielder or a Cognition Core attached can ready an action to Counterspell a target. CL check is of course based on the Tapestry. This costs an amount of energy as if the device had just cast the spell. Similarly, a caster can ready an action to counterspell a device. Diagnostics hooked up to a runestone/staff will tell whether or not the spell went off successfully.

Expensive material components must be connected to the stone via a power line, and creatures with levels may be willingly contribute their XP to power spells requiring XP.

Databanks store information of one kind or another. Hook up an Arcane Eye Runestaff with an info line leading to a Databank and it'll record everything that the eye sees. Then hook that same info tapestry up to a Display and you'll be able to retrieve that info at will. You can also use a display to modify info, write things, etc. Accessing Information requires an Access Runestone be connected (It's a new spell, I'll describe all of them later) to the info line. The varying databanks mainly differ in the amount of info they can hold. I didn't know how exactly to state that capacity, so I went with MB.



Size
Capacity
CL
Weight
Cost


Fine
1 MB
7
-
100


Diminutive
100 MB
7
3
1,000


Tiny
300 MB
9
7
2,000


Small
750 MB
11
10
3,000


Medium
2000 MB
13
30
5,000


Large
5000 MB
15
50
10,000



"How much is a Megabyte?" (http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/tek1/how_big.htm)

Databanks double as a way to store spell specifics. Such as a load of info on how exactly to make that Greater Image look like the owlbear from three corridors back.

Well anything this advanced needs something beyond PC races to moderate systems. Introducing: THE COGNITION CORE. Sentient Items work as normal, but I'm adding a a couple that are even lower than the base. It's not really Intelligent, perse, but it can take in raw data and makes decisions based on that information. It has the sense of a basic sentient magic item. All sentient magic items can be hooked up to an information tapestry and thus control it's various functions.

Greater Cognition Core - Int 10 - 500 gp - Perfect interpretation of inputs, capable of any compatible function.

Lesser Cognition Core - Int 2 - 100 gp - Requires a Magitech Program check to enable a function. DC for each additional function increases by 5. Functions are things like "Listen" or "Open Tapestry Line".

Cognition Cores have no Ego, cannot be given Powers, have the senses of a baseline Sentient Magic Item, and the only upgrades that can be performed on them is from Lesser to Greater.

To further this, I have invented a few useful powers for Sentient Magic Items. Namely ones to be used with my Mech system. Combat Prowess is a 20,000 GP greater power that gives a Sentient Magic Item a BAB of it's level X 2, a Dex of 10+It's level, and it gives the Simple Weapons Proficiency feat. Then there are 10,000 gp minor powers for martial weapon proficiencies, exotics, and weapon focuses.

Charging Crystals are the primary source of energy used. They come in only five sizes, and are designated as Arcane or Divine upon creation. Each yields a single spell level after a given interval.



Size
Charge Interval
CL
Weight
Cost


Diminutive
1/day
7
5
400


Small
1/6 hours
10
18
1,500


Medium
1/hour
12
75
8,000


Large
1/10 minutes
16
200
45,000


Colossal
1/minute
21
800
400,000



You should find that these numbers are superior to those garnered by less specialized magic items, such as Eternal Wands. The downside is that at the given intervals the item discharges whether or not there's room for it to do so. Eternal Wands, for example, would only fire automatically if there was a less-than-full battery or a magic item it could activate, allowing it to be used as a battery/generator all on it's own. The result of adding these Generator Crystals is that they are primarily used instead of Eternal Wands, though some ships may use Eternal Wands as a source of backup energy.

Also note that a Tapestry cannot utilize power coming from a magic item (Not a battery) in the same round that that power is given. I.e. The standard action to give the power is taken separate from that to use it. This makes using Eternal Wands and other normal magic items directly as batteries somewhat less effective. This limitation is gotten around through batteries which are always ready to give their energy.

Rogues can disarm Magitech devices as they do magic traps. Use the highest level Tapestry/2 as the "Spell Level" for this check. So the DC would be 25+(Highest CL/2)

For your convenience, I have statted basic chassis for handheld and stationary devices.



Size
Cost
Weight


Diminutive
60
2


Tiny
60
2


Small
120
10


Medium
120
20


Large
240
40


Huge
480
100


Gargantuan
960
160


Colossal
1920+
240+



Note: Magitech Weapons are considered "Martial" if the setting features them prominently, Exotic otherwise.


Craft Epic Magitech [Item Creation][Epic Level Feat]
Prequisite: CL 21, Craft Magitech
Benefit: Allows the creation of Tapestries above 20th level, allows the creation of batteries holding more than 750 spell levels, and any other Magitech Devices requiring a CL of 21 and up.

Tapestries of CL 21+ that you make may be enchanted with up to two metamagic feats, and these may be epic metamagic.

This feat also allows you to create Epic Runestones. These huge devices are all Huge Size, weighing 1,000 with glowing sigils carved all over their surfaces. They contain a single Epic-Level spell. The cost of such a device is 100,000 gp per point of Spellcraft DC. Costly material components must be in contact with the stone. Backlash is dealt to the craft or device housing Stone in addition to the stone itself. These stones can handle long casting times. Multiple Casters take the form of multiple Tapestries all ending in Transit Runestones that spend the required amount of spell energy instead of the cost of Transit. These tapestries must be a high enough CL to expend this level of energy (Must be a CL 18 Tapestry to contribute the equivalent of a 9th level spell). This appears as a beam of light going from the Transit Runestones to the Epic Runestone. Using Transit in this way takes it's usual time, thus causing the actual casting of the spell to wait until Transit has been cast by all participating Tapestries. The actual cost of casting an Epic Level Spell is equal to the Spellcraft DC X 50 Spell Levels of energy.

For the purposes of cost and energy needs, mitigating factors only reduce the DC by 1 for every 2 they would normally, down to a minimum of half the original DC.

Large orbital platform, containing massive batteries, a series of powerful Tapestries feeding Transit Stones, aimed towards a central Epic Runestone containing a modified version of Vengeful Gaze of God, one with a longer casting time, no XP cost, and requiring large numbers of participating casters. Sorry, did I just make a Death Star?


Expand Spell [Metamaigc][Epic Level Feat]
Prequisites: CL 21, Enlarge Spell
Benefit: This feat can only be applied to Divination Spells with an area of a Cone-shaped emanation that does not allow any sort of save. This is almost exclusively Detect spells. Multiply the range of the spell by the number of slots you raise it with this feat. So if you used this feat to prepare Detect Magic as a 3rd level spell, it'd have an area of a 60X3=180 ft cone-shaped emanation. This feat is almost always found soley as part of Skyship Sensor Arrays.


Piercing Spell [Metamagic]
Benefits: You can now apply the Piercing Spell metamagic to your spells that deal energy damage in return for a one slot increase. The damage is not decreased when dealt to inanimate objects.


Magitech Familiar
Prequisites: Ability to gain a new familiar or Level 1 Arcane Engineer
Benefit: You create a bond with a willing Sentient Magic Item which gains the same benefits as if it were a familiar except for the speech thing. This familiar is almost always inside of a small (not always small) Tapestry Construct. In such a form, it may still Deliver Touch Spells. The item gains an Int Bonus based upon level instead of having the Int set. So a Magitech Familiar of a 4th level wizard would get +2 int. The natural armor benefits the item, not the whatever it is inside. If you are an Arcane Engineer taking this, treat your AE levels as Wizard levels for Familiar benefits.



Extra Rotes
Prequisites: Able to cast 1st level spells
Benefit: You instantly gain 10 Higher Rotes which must be either Arcane or Divine, depending upon what kind of caster you are. These are spells which you have memorized but cannot cast. Instead, they just allow you to create magic items requiring them. You cannot choose Rotes which are of a level you would be unable to cast.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times.


Extra Temporary Craft Points
Prequisites: Temporary Craft Class Feature
Benefit: You increase your daily TCP by your CL, which increases as your CL increases. This is made for the Arcane Engineer found later.

New Spells
(Name-level-duration-description.)

Interface - 5 - 1 min/CL - Allows you to directly hook up to an information tapestry as if you were a sentient magic item
Transit - 1 - Moves power from one battery to another or one tapestry to another (Or from a battery to a Tapestry, or from a Battery to a Runestone). Transit Runestones are used to connect power tapestries. If used to connect Info Taps, the spell has a duration of 10 min/CL. Sorcerers gain additional use of this spell. Using it on a battery, they can replenish one of their spell slot. The actual process expends another remaining slot of theirs and costs the battery an equal number of spell levels. In return, the sorcerer replenishes a slot one level higher. Example: Sorcerer has a Battery with 5 charges, and has just expended a Fireball. The Sorcerer can cast Transit on the Battery and change one of his remaining 2nd level slots to a 3rd level slot. The battery loses two charges. (Someone familiar with Versatile Spellcaster will note this works just like that, but the Battery provides the second spell). This allows Sorcerers to benefit from stored energy without increasing the raw numbers of spells they get per day. Technically this spell helps any spontaneous Arcane Caster, but the spell is only added to the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list.
Diagnostics - 1 - 10 min/CL - Reveals information about magitechnological devices. Usually attached to an information line. When it is, it'll read power ratings, flow of energy, charges left per day, etc. Almost always connected to a Display. Since this connection is an info line and info ends don't have a set direction like power ends do, the diagnostics runestone could technically display the status of the display to the display. If you wanted it to. When this spell is cast, it can either target an Information Tapestry, receiving diagnostic information from everything attached or it can be cast on a single magic item, which only returns information about said item.
Arcane/Divine Transformation - 9 - Instant - This spell is used to change Arcane Energy into Divine, and it's sister spell Divine/Arcane Transformation does the opposite. When attached to two Tapestries, one of each kind, with one leading to and one leading from, these spells can transform the energy passing through them. It can transform a number of spell levels equal to CL*10 at a time.
Animate Mechanics - 4 through 9 - 10 min/CL - Vital to mechanical devices, mech suits, and sky ships, this simple spell will animate a mechanical device. This is actually a collection of spells, of level 4-9 (So they can only be stored in runestaves), each one providing a different effective strength score. In order 1,5,10,15,20,25. These will be more important and make more sense later on.
Create Thrust - 2 - 10 min/CL - Back in the dark ages, before Levitate, Fly, or even Tenser's Floating disk, we had a spell that made raw thrust. Namely it used a neat little, scalable ratio. A casting can move 120 pounds at a rate of 20ft per round. Or it could move 60 lbs 40ft per round. Or 240 10ft. Or you could cast this on two wooden slabs and attach those to a 240 lb chunk of rock and it would try to move 20 ft per round (2 spells=2XThepowah). This multiplying effect stops at and below 5 lb. Below that, this treats it as if it were still 5lb. This means you can't make a .1 lb metal sphere go rocketing at super-sonic speeds. This spell however has a tendency to be a bit unreliable. Namely, this spell cannot have the exact factors controlled. Want to levitate that table? Chances are it'll either be too heavy and stay rooted to the spot, or too light and start floating/flying upwards. This is why it was later replaced with the aforementioned spells. However, it is integral in skyship travel. Thanks to the Principle of Multiplication, we can cast Create Thrust into a Tapestry, thus affecting up to 25 disks with a single spell! YES. We call a tapestry that is at least CL 10 (as to have 25 ends) with one end attached to a Runestone of Create Thrust and the other ends to much smaller, but still pivot-able metal spheres a "Thrust Web". The Tapestry used for this is almost always Ephemeral as to prevent it from getting tangled up when the sphere twists. Anyways, this helps quite a deal for power-effective travel. Technically the Thrust Disks work, they just take up massive amounts of unneeded power. Also note that Create Thrust is now 2nd level, and as such having Extend imbued into the tapestry that feeds the Web would be a very good idea. Create Thrust stacks, up to 12 times on a single object. I've made a custom system for collisions that is very useful when using this spell. You'll find it in the Mech/Skyship area.
Energy Absorption Field - 7 - 1 round/CL - A knock off of the Energy Transformation Field from the Spell Compendium. It creates an connected area comprised of a single 10 ft cube per caster level. Instead of a spell being designated upon casting, a nearby (medium range) battery is targeted and gains the charge.
Flame Blade - 3 - 1 minute/CL - As Flame Dagger (from the Spell compendium), but 1d8+CL (Max +15) and the blade is the size of a Longsword. And if you attach this to a casting device... Sorry did I just make a Lightsaber?
Access - 2 - 1 minute/CL - To be used in conjunction with a Databank. If cast on a databank, the caster can immediately access the information, and modify it if they wish. An Access Runestone is almost always connected via an info line to both a databank and a Display. This would allow the Display to pull up the information once the connection was made by giving the signal to power the Access Stone (we have a trigger built onto the stone, connected to the same display). Given Access's cost, it usually isn't on all the time, but rather is activated when information needs to be retrieved or altered.
Restrict - 2 - Permanent - The companion to Access, this spell allows you to password either all or some of the information in a Databank. Technically, a password isn't the right word. It's more of a magical signature that is difficult to emulate unless you have been told how to do so. In the case of a person casting Access to try to get to Restricted material, they would be prompted to provide the correct signature. In the case of a Runestone, the Display prompts the user to provide said signature. This magical signature doesn't actually require anything more than being 1st level in an arcane or divine spellcasting class (the signature does differentiate). If the signature is not known, you may attempt to effectively hack the system. This is rolled as an opposed CL check against the caster of Restrict. If the Hacker wins, they access the encrypted information. Restrict can be dispelled, though this may have... unwanted side effects on the databank. Restrict can also be used to lock certain functions of a Magitech Device, such as making the super-weapon require a correct signature. You can also restrict a Battery such that it cannot be drawn from without the proper signature - this is most important for Greater Transit. When trying to bypass these features, Access is used.
Relay - 1 to 4 - 1 min/CL - This is another group of spells. Specifically it allows two information lines to be joined accross distances. The only difference between the spells is range (Close, Medium, Long, and 1 mile/cl respectively). In the case of casters, two casters would need to use this spell and be on the same "frequency". As long as this was true, they could hear what one another said. The same goes for a pair of runestones.
Detect Chemical Composition - 1 - Instant - Well... Yeah. It gives you an accurate read out of the chemical composition of a liquid, solid, or gas. Standard 60ft cone. Breathalyzer?
Create Gravity - 7 - 24 hours - A very odd spell. This is designed for those traversing Space in a Skyship such as that described later. To prevent your bones from turning to jelly and general problems due to lack of gravity, Create Gravity was made. It's an odd spell as it uses the Spell/Size scaling system described later, yet it's only usable on Tapestry Constructs. The basic effect is that the targeted Tapestry Construct now has gravity within it. This spell is based upon "Reverse Gravity". The direction of the gravity is chosen upon casting. Don't let the PCs get this. Everything will be on the ceiling.
Amanuensis, Greater - 3 - 10 min/CL - Just as Amanuensis, but this spell can duplicate the markings in spell books (Which are magical, and thus not copy-able by the normal version of the spell). Advanced societies store the spell-book information in Databanks and hook them up to Runestones of Greater Amanuensis that just continuously produce spellbooks. This spell has a costly material component - the costly materials normally needed for scribing books. These must be within Close Range of the the spell's target. This spell also has the property that it can change targets when it finishes with one. The new target must be within close range of the origin of the spell.
Gate, Skyship - 9 - Concentration (up to 1 round/CL) - Another odd one. This spell is only castable by a Tapestry and takes 100 spell levels of energy. It works exactly as Gate except that you cannot use it to call creatures, and it's diamter is between 5 and 200ft (chosen when cast)
Store Magitech Device - 3 - Permanent, until retrieved - This spell allows you to store a magitech device in a pocket dimension. The cost of this spell scales normally with the size of a Tapestry Construct. The spell fails if there is any creature or sentient magic item inside of such a device (Cognition Core are allowed). The device can be either a normal device, or a full Tapestry Construct. Either way, a miniature image of the device appears inside the large Emerald (Which is the costly Arcane Focus of this spell, costing 1,000gp). At any time the caster can call the device out of the dimension, as long as they are in contact with the storing stone. This retrieval fails if there is not enough room for the device to emerge.
Activate - 0 - Instant - This is hardly even a spell. If you hook up the correct kind of power line leading to a magic item (Let's say a Wand of Fireball), the power wants to flow. Assuming no obstruction (Triggers pressed, or there are no triggers), the item will activate at a cost of a half level of energy. In this way you can hook up Tapestries to activate other magic items. This doesn't require a runestone. Only Tapestries can use this ability. Yes, this means you could attach a random magic item (As in you don't know what it does) to a "Tester" and Activate it. Results may vary. "Where'd it go?!?" "Well it may have been Boots of Dimension Door"
Increase - 3 - 10 min/CL - When in dire need, one can Increase the maximum capacity of a Battery such that it can contain more energy. This spell targets a single battery who's maximum capacity increases by CL*3 to a max of twice it's original cap. Doubling the original Cap causes the Battery to become unstable, resulting in a complete loss of all Hardness. Tripling it reduces it's HP to 1. You cannot more than triple the Cap of a battery. This spell does not actually add levels, only room for more. If this spell expires while there are still excess levels in the battery, they start safely dissipating at the rate of 1 level a minute.
Greater Transit - 3 - Instant - As Transit, but Close range and you need not be able to see the target battery or tapestry, only know it's general location.

[Welknair]

Pass On - 9 - Instant - All things must die. Some Wizards feel that they owe something to those who continue in their footsteps and decide to give up their powers just before their deaths. They cast this spell targeting an Experience Capacitor. The result is that they lose every single of Experience Point they posess, with a corresponding drop to level 1. One fourth the experience that they possessed travels into the Capacitor for other use. This spell is fairly rarely used, as one could imagine. It takes a special kind of person to willingly sacrifice their powers for the benefit of others. The caster may sacrifice less than their full XP, with the same 1/4 traveling into the battery, with level decreases as appropriate.
Overload - 5 - instant - I said I'd give a spell for blowing batteries on command. And I don't disappoint. This spell targets a battery, and involves a 10-minute casting period involving touching said battery (No remotely detonating the batteries in an enemy's mech suit). After the designated casting time, there is a delay before it blows. If you have a display and info line hooked up to the battery, a countdown will be shown. If the Display is Minor Image, a beeping sound will accompany the countdown. If it's Major Image, there will be a voice counting. The actual duration is set by the caster and can be between 1 and 100 rounds (6 seconds to 10 minutes).
One can always cast a Targeted Dispel Magic on the Battery if they know that it is under the effect of Overload to "Diffuse" it.
Overload Protector - 5 - Permanent, until discharged - This spell is cast on an object, creature, or spot. When a battery explodes or the Too Much Principle is activated, this spell leaps into action. It protects any objects or people within 10ft of the center of this spell (object, creature, or spot) from up to Cl X Cl X 10 damage from such an explosion. If the damage is greater than this, they take the overflow. If this spell is cast on a battery, it reduces the overall strength of the blast by the given amount, possibly nullifying it. If a battery is the target of this spell, blows, but has the entirety of the blast absorbed, the battery loses all charges in it but remains intact (except for whatever busted it. A Repair spell of appropriate magnitude should be allowed to fix this). If a Protector completely nullifies the incoming damage, the spell is not discharged, rather it takes "damage" based on the strength of the blast. So a Protector that starts being able to absorb 1000 damage takes 694, now it can absorb another 206. Keep in mind that this spell only works against exploding batteries and the Too Much Principle. You may have problems involving the building or cave collapsing on you. Most large craft will have a spell such as this cast on their battery as a defense-mechanism. Overlapping Protectors do not stack.

It has been known to overload a battery attached to Thrust Web with a Mechanics Core and Sentient Magic Item. The Item is attached with an info line to the staff and disk. The Item is given the instruction to steer the device towards the target described. Given the speed of Thrust Disks and weight of a likely casing, this should be easily accomplish-able in 12 seconds. Sorry, did I just make a missile?

(Also Note: You could make an EMP bomb as following: Use a similar design, but don't detonate the battery. Instead have the Runestaff also contain Antimagic Field and tell the Sentient Magic Item to activate it when the missile came within range. It may be advantageous to try to have this device land on, attach to, or stick into the target as the Thrust Disk will stop functioning once the Field is created. But good news: If you do this by the location of their thrust disks, they're going to be having intimate relations with the ground. And don't forget you can enchant the power tapestry with Widen Spell. :smallbiggrin:)


Pierce Deep Astral - Epic - DC 20 - This spell goes with the cosmology setup described at the beginning. It's an odd Epic Level spell as it doesn't use usual factors and our top Wizards can't seem to mitigate the cost. The spell itself bores a hole through the Deep Astral Barrier, allowing Inter-Astral Travel. This spell takes 10 minutes to cast and opens a hole in the Deep Astral Barrier, meaning that you must already be in the Astral Plane. The hole remains open for as long as the powering Tapestry concentrates and remains within long range, with a maximum of 24 hours.

Old Spells You Want to Remember
Resist Energy and Protection from Energy. These spells are invaluable in pretty much any craft. Since Wizards don't get Spell Resistance Spells, they use these instead. Resist Energy is usually used on larger craft as Protection will wear out pretty quickly. Smaller craft will likely use Protection from Energy as they can't afford to take much damage.

Dispel Magic. YES. The main weakness of this system is Dispel Magic. That also makes it the main weapon. You can cripple an enemy's system with a dispel magic spell, or vice versa. Normal rules still apply. If a Tapestry is dispelled, it stops all power flow through it and cannot be used for the requisite 1d4 rounds. Ooch.

Scorching Ray. Given level/damage ratios, this one takes the cake. 4d6 at 2nd level? And that number goes up for higher CL tapestries? You can see why I use Scorching Ray as a primary weapon.

Antimagic Field. Like Dispel, but no checks and it's everything within the radius. We recommend you using a device like that listed above for delivery.

Stick. This is one of the only spells from the SC that has stuck with me. It's like magic duct-tape.

Reality Maelstrom. Did somebody call for a black hole? This'll suck up those annoying fighter craft swarming your ship.

Greater Teleport. Sulu go to warp?

Repair spells. ... Need I say more?

Hardness. We're in ships and mechs. More durability is always welcome.

Fabricate. Sorry did I just make a factory?

Shrink Item. "Okay, I'm gonna Shrink the battery so it takes up less space and weighs less" If you could do that, why weren't they just made smaller? There's a reason that they're the size they are. Namely the spells to be contained within take up some measure of space. And they don't like being squeezed. You cannot Shrink Tapestries or Batteries, nor can you shrink any item or construct laced with a Tapestry.

Cure Light Wounds (From the Bard). "So I can have a Bard multiclass to Wizard and force him to make Cure Runestones that are still Arcane, right?" "No" Just no. Because no.

Mechs

The term "Mech" is used to describe both Mechsuits and simple droids. This system allows you to apply the above features into something you can use to bash your opponents. Or have shoot lasers. Or you could make something that just screams "EXTERMINATE" over and over again...

Chassis:


Size
Cost
Weight
HP
Minimum Str


Tiny
750
5
X2/5
1


Small
1500
25
X2 + 10
5


Medium
1500
50
X4 +20
10


Large
3000
100
X8 + 30
15


Huge
6000
250
X20 + 40
20



The Chassis has Hardness and HP based off of it's material. (A Mithral Huge Mech Suit would have Hardness 15 and 30X20+40=640 HP). Adamantine has a cost of 800/lb for making an Adamantine Chassis.

Almost every Mech has Plating. After much contemplation, I decided to use the tried-and-tested default armors as plating. You use the same numbers, just remember to scale for the correct size. It's also customary to.. alter the armor a bit. Instead of "Studded Leather", think of several sheets of metal (with studs in them) attached together via chain links covering the mech's chassis. Though it is not necessary, you'll be hard pressed to find a mech without at least Light Plating.

Damage: After Hardness is subtracted from damage, it is dealt to the Chasis. Keep in mind how energy damage is affected when dealing damage to objects. One third of that is then dealt to the occupant (if it's an occupied mech suit) as the suit is jostled, heated, electrocuted, etc. The first (Con) damage of this is Nonlethal, after that it is Lethal damage. Because of this, weaker occupants may fail long before their armor does. When HP is down to half it's max, many activities take a penalty (-1 AB, -1 max dex, additional -1 check penalty). At HP 0 the suit is crippled, getting only a single action a turn, but suffering no chance to harm itself by doing so. When HP=-Bonus (10 for Small, 20 for medium, etc.) the suit fails entirely and the battery blows. From -1 to there the suit is inert and powerless as the damage has crippled and blocked the power flows and mechanical systems.

Note that Cognition Cores/Sentient Magic Items are immensely useful in a mech suit. Whether they are the actual brain of the device (in which case they should get Combat Prowess if you want them to actually fight) or simply for a second opinion on the systems and situation. Sentient Magic Items inhabiting the same suit as a living occupant have several options: Automatic (It controls the attacks, using only it's stats), Dormant (Let's the occupant do the work and stay out of the way), Aid (Uses the Aid Another action to give bonuses to the occupant. This manifests as very fluid attacks, a HUD, a combat readout, or the like), or Aided (As above, but the rider is aiding the Sentience). The last two are the ones used most frequently, depending upon who has the higher AB.

The Occupant adds their Str Modifier and Score to that of the Mech for purposes of Load, Skills, and fighting.

Arcane Casters are treated as if wearing full plate when in a mech for the purposes of casting their spells (85% failure). Warmages mock the puny Wizards. Mithril Chassis reduces this by the usual 10%. You'll also need a designated mechanism that allows you to move the material components into your actual hand while you're still inside the mech. Either you spend 500gp and increase the weight by 5lb and always take a move action to get your material components, or you get Eschew Materials. Your choice.

Breaches: If a single attack not only bypasses the hardness of the material, but also deals enough damage to destroy one inch of the material (30 for iron/steel/mithral) then you have a Breach. Depending upon the environment this can be very bad. The immediate effect however is that the occupant doesn't suffer the 1/3 damage (with some (or all) being nonlethal), but instead suffers 1/2 full lethal from the attack (assuming the attack was lethal to begin with).

"Help, help! I've fallen and I can't get up!" Appendages. If you want to shake a hand, shake a sword, or shake a Halfling, they're useful. All of the cost and weight numbers that follow are for medium mechs. They scale as humanoid armor does.

Locomotion: (Note, all of this is taken from the Droids section of the Starwars RPG)


Locomotion
Up to Small
Medium
Large and up
Cost
Weight
Traits


Wheels
30ft
40ft
50ft
75
6
Double Rough Terrain Penalties, no climb or jump


Treads
20ft
30ft
40ft
100
10
No Rough Terrain Penalties, -5 climb, no jump


Legs
20ft
30ft
40ft
200
15
Normal



Appendages: (Yeah, still kinda taken from Starwars. Thanks, R2)


Appendage
Cost
Weight
Traits


Probe
100
2
Treat as two sizes smaller for unarmed damage. Almost no reach. It can push/pull things.


Claw
200
10
DC 15 Dex check to use items requiring a hand, or it drops it. 1 size larger for unarmed.


Hand
500
12
Normal



Mechanics are very important to both mechs and skyships. They come in two varieties: Light and Heavy. They're both used to convey power from either some layman turning a crank or an Animate Mechanics spell. Heavy Mechanics reduces the Str score by 1 per 10 ft the power travels while a Light Mechanics system reduces it by 2 in additional to 1 per 5 ft. Heavy Mechanics weigh 10 lb and cost 500 gp per 5 ft (Minimum of 250gp) while Light Mechanics weigh only 7lb and cost 400 gp per 5 ft (Minimum of 200).
(So Light Mechanics Str score is (Base Str -2 + (-1 per 5ft))

These numbers are assuming steel parts. You can, as usual, make these out of other materials, such as Mithral. Wooden parts can be used for 1/10 the cost, but the parts wear quickly. 20 uses calls for a craft check from the creator at DC 15, each 20 after that increases the DC by 5. A failed check means some aspect breaks such that it becomes unusable. This still happens for steel and other materials, but only every 100 uses. In either case, treat a week as a single use. A craft check can be made to repair it at DC 20 costing 1/5 the normal price of the mechanic. Or a Make Whole spell will do the trick. It's customary to have a system that checks for breaks and automatically casts Make Whole on the damaged area.

The actual construction of the chassi of a Mech would be based on Craft: Metalworking, while the Mechanics would be Craft: Mechanics.

Something most players will be interested in based on this system would be personal mech suits, so some further description may be in order. The whole "Minimum Str" for the sizes is based upon the need to convey mechanical energy throughout the mech, which is made more difficult by it being large or heavy. Plating is different from the Chassi, as it is focused on deflecting attacks, rather than absorbing them. Plating adds to the AC, while the Chassi mainly gives the raw HP and Hardness. As described below, one rank in Magitech is required to know how to pilot a Mech. This constitutes a basic "This button is go. This one fires the rockets". It allows you to recognize the basic controls. Most mechs would have a large chest piece which opened such that the occupant could crawl in or out. Once inside, you control it based upon you're physical movements being translated into Mechanical Energy further enhanced by Animate Mechanics. As previously mentioned, you use the Str score given by the Animate Mechanics spell, though you can use Aid Another to aid the machine (Or the machine could aid you if you were the stronger). You use the movement speed given by the locomotion means and may take double move actions. If for some reason Animate Mechanics ran out and you couldn't reactivate it, you'd be stuck inside a heap of extremely heavy material that most characters have difficulty lifting on their own. Your Dex score in unaffected, save for the max dictated by your Plating and the corresponding Check Penalty.

Now for a sample mech: Large Size chassis, Runestaff core containing Animate Mechanics 8 (15 Str) along with Invisibility, Shield, and Resist Energy. This behemoth would be powered by a 25 cap battery along with a Small Charging Crystal. A Medium Arcane Tapestry of CL 15 would power most of the suits functions, with a secondary CL 9 tap connecting the previously mentioned wands to the previously mentioned battery. At this point you could feel free to attach whatever auxiliary or combat systems you see fit to add. Enchanting the Tapestry which feeds to the Core Staff with Extend would likely be a wise investment as would adding an Information Tapestry with a corresponding Diagnostic Runestone along with various other sensory spell stones. Then you stick your Barbarian in this thing. :smallbiggrin:

Skyships
"Skyships", "Spaceships", "Flying doohickies", or whatever you like to call them, work much the same as Mechs do. Except they are, you know, flying.

Chassis:


Size
Cost
Weight
HP
Maneuverability


Tiny
1000
4
X0.3
Perfect


Small
2000
20
X1.5 + 10
Good


Medium
2000
40
X3 +20
Average


Large
4000
80
X6 + 30
Average


Huge
8000
200
X15 + 40
Good


Gargantuan
16000
320
X24 + 60
Good


Colossal
Sq ft X 40/3
Sq ft X 4/15
XCube root of Cu ft + 80
Good

[/td]
[/tr]



Damage works much the same. When HP =-Bonus, the core goes nuclear. We don't suffer penalties at half HP. At -1 all systems go offline, usually causing the craft to begin a rapid descent. At -1 and below it also loses 2 HP a turn. Hull breaches are a much larger concern aboard a Colossal Skyship. A Maximized Fireball hitting your hull isn't going to be too good for personnel in the immediate vicinity.

HP is only a measure of overall structural integrity. You'll likely have numerous breaches long before the ship falls apart. Once you're dealing with truly Colossal ships, HP stops meaning much. Your engines will explode, your entire crew perish in fire, and the bridge will be destroyed long before the ship falls apart.

Having internal mechanics is just as important as before as they are used to steer the Thrust Spheres and by extension the ship. Light Mechanics are usually used here as having a high raw strength isn't that important.

You can both sneak attack and get a critical hit on a skyship or mech. Make vivid images and explanations as needed. ("You managed to pierce into the bridge and melted the captain's brain. Nice job"). The only exception is that you cannot Sneak Attack a Colossal Skyship.

Pilots of Colossal Skyships never add their Dex Bonuses to AC. How do you take evasive actions in something that large?

All attacks being launched while aboard a Skyship occur after said Skyship's movement. The Ace Pilot PrC that I have can learn the "Strafe" Ace Trick which allows them to attack at any point during that. Also note that Pilots cannot fire in any direction but ahead of them (In a sort of cone, DM decides what counts). This is because it is very difficult to steer in one direction and shoot in another. This often leads to crafts having both a pilot and a gunner.

Mechs and Skyships (Referred to as Tapestry Constructs) have a few other properties worth mentioning. First, they may be the subject of buff spells as if they were a creature. Only spells of the schools of Abjuration, Illusion, and Conjuration can affect them in this way. Albeit, at an increased cost. It takes a number of spell levels equal to Spell Level X Size (Tiny=1, diminutive =2, Colossal=8) X Size. In this way a Colossal Skyship using Greater Teleport would take 4X8X8 levels, or 256. This seems about right to me. These effects may originate either from a device within the vessel, from another device, or from a caster using a sufficiently Heightened spell (It's rare that they have a spell slot high enough, but the option's there). No spells that are Conjuration (Healing) work on Tapestry Constructs, despite most conjuration spells doing so. Conversely, all Tapestry Constructs may be targeted and affected by all Repair spells, despite them not actually being constructs and despite most transmutation spells not counting them as creatures. Second, certain offensive spells may also treat Tapestry Constructs as creatures. Spells of the schools of Evocation, Divination, or Necromancy all affect these vessels as if they were creatures. This means they can be targeted with magic missile, and if you're using Rich's Divination spells, you can hook up a Detect Creatures runestone with an info line to your display and get a neat radar! When a Tapestry Construct is the target of negative levels, the only effect is that the CL of all tapestries connected to the target decrease by the given number. This often causes some tapestries to contract at random as the maximum endings decrease and some devices are disconnected. These levels never become permanent, though if CL reaches 0, your systems fail and the vessel changes immediately to -1 HP (If it was above that before).

Despite me calling them "Tapestry Constructs" they do not have the construct type. For any spell besides the above, they are considered inanimate objects.

Saves: Tapestry Constructs are always treated as Magic Items and thus always get saves. Vessels directly piloted (I.e. Mech suits and Personal Skyships) may have the driver make the save. The save bonus for the construct itself is as given. 2+1/2 CL. In this case the Cl is that of the highest Tapestry in the construct. Colossal and Stationary constructs get no Reflex saves. A successful Disintegrate spell cast on a Huge size or greater Tapestry Construct deals 10d6 structural damage (bypasses hardness).

When I was doing some mock-ups, I ran into a problem. Namely, a scorching ray (which I've been using as a basic weapons system as it's a decent deal as far as damage and spell level go) couldn't get past mithral plating. First, a single Scorching Ray does an average of 14 damage. Mithral has a hardness of 15. "So it has about a 50% chance to deal damage, right?" Wrong. Due to how energy damage works with objects, fire damage is halved. An average of 7 damage, a max of 12. That's never going to get past the hardness. As such, I've decided that if multiple attacks deal damage to the same section of the vessel in the same round, that they stack against hardness. As such, two average scorching rays, dealing 28 damage total, would deal 13 damage to the vessel as a whole. Get four, a max power scorching ray, and you got yourself a hull breach!

As for propulsion, please see "New Spells: Create Thrust". Your basic one-man craft will probably have a full Thrust Web, while a Tarrasque-Class cruise may have upwards of 40 such Webs. It's important to note that this speed does not depend upon "Move Actions". You cannot take a Full Move to move double speed, nor do you stop moving if you spend a full round casting in the cockpit.

For the Maneuverability explanations... Really small craft don't really have a "Front" and are likely powered by a minimal number of Thrust Spheres, almost certainly not a full Web. As such, they can quickly change direction and dart about. Very large craft have massive numbers of Webs and can simply direct them downwards to hover or quickly turn on the spot. Middling sized vessels will probably have a single Web, not enough to be capable of hovering (without some nice control-handling) and it's certainly not capable of just going backwards.

To remain airborne, Skyships must have enough Thrust to propel them at least 20ft/round. Good maneuverability allows you to direct this downwards to hover, while Average makes this the minimum travel speed. See "Pilot" for rapidly rotating Spheres as to hover. You must be able to maintain the 20ft/round on a single casting of Create Thrust (I.e. not doubling the casting on a single steer-able device). If you can't, then that means too much of the strength is in not enough devices, making it difficult to steer. The result is that your Maneuverability drops by one. Not advisable, but allowed.

Increasing speed drastically also affects certain maneuverability aspects. For every 40 ft/round that the craft travels, increase relevant maneuverability distances. 80 ft/round means that an Average Maneuverability craft would turn 45 degrees in 10ft, instead of 5. Going to 120 ft/round would bump this to 45 in 15ft. This also applies to the Pilot maneuvers.

Also note that the rules for Mechs carry over to rules for standard Vehicles, such as a basic jeep powered by an Animate Mechanics Runestaff.

Mechs are subject to reductions of speed due to carrying capacity, if that wasn't apparent before.

Chassi cannot be enchanted, but Plating can be enchanted as if it were armor.

As for one last measure of defense, a Skyship or Mech can have a Reinforced Hull. This is chosen upon creation and causes the cost and weight of the Chassi to be multiplied by 1.5 and the Health Factor (The number gotten from the material for determining HP) is multiplied by 1.2. The main result however is a doubling of the damage needed to breech the hull.

Now for a sample Tarrasque-Class Skyship:

Power first. A few Colossal Charging Crystals would likely be best. Given that the chassi is costing a few million, you can pretty quickly get the charge you need. Okay, with some basic numbers, we can assume a 45 ton skyship, including cargo. With 40 webs, we would get a decent speed. Assuming a Primary Tapestry CL of 30, we already can go for 15 hours/day. Extend the Webs, and we can go non-stop. For actual power, 40*3=120 charges, for 30 hours of travel. I've been assuming most Tarrasque-Class ships would hold something on the order of 3 to 5 THOUSAND levels, refreshing that every day or two.

Let's say the dimensions are 100X100X200, which yields some basic numbers, including those for the chassi cost. For defensive systems, we would have a standard array of Shield, Resist Energy, and similar effects. Resist Energy would be our primary form of defense. Weapons would include scattered basic turrets throughout the vessel, probably around 20, each armed with a standard set of weapon spells (Scorching Ray, Fireball, Magic Missile, Dispel Magic, etc.), most of which would be in a single Runestaff, except for a few Runestones with lower-level spells for focused fire. (Four Scorching Ray Runestones all hooked to the same aiming mechanism for focused attacks!). Weapon systems would likely be powered by Maximize or Empower Tapestries, with a button in each turret area to enable the feature. The size of the ship is sufficient to hold the enormous batteries and the massive number of wands. Speaking of which, those would add up to around 2,500 wands. That's going to be 10 250 end tapestries, plus a few more to allow the wands to actually attach to our batteries. We would have Overload Protection cast on every battery, hopefully enough to prevent a catastrophic explosion... A number of contingent Repair Spells hooked up to Cognition Cores would quickly right any damage dealt to our vessel. The ship itself would likely field a crew of around 200 maximum, though you could make almost everything automated. Then throw in 10 or so Phoenix-Class fighters, and you got a decent force. If we wanted to, we could add on some Thrust Missiles that I described somewhere, in addition to various bombs and disabling devices. We have something like 5,000 lbs of cargo space mapped out in the speed. We would of course have a Runestaff containing Skyship Gate for quick movement between planes, and our Defensive Runestaff could also include Greater Teleport. The 200 crew would consist of around 20 mid-level wizards, 10 trained pilots, a few officers, a bunch of laymen, 25 or so gunners, a security crew of around 30 to 40, a bridge crew (Sulu go to warp!), a medical crew of 10 to 15, and so on. We can still fit them pretty easily. We could have a secondary battery which was somewhat smaller with it's own Charging Crystal for divine magic, allowing us to Create Food and Water pretty easily to feed the crew and power healing devices. Spell Resistance would invaluable as a defense mechanism, though it requires Divine Magic.

For Tarrasque class ships, you really don't need to describe how absolutely everything connects and how everything is hooked up. You can assume that you have a basic network of Tapestries throughout - you don't have to detail every one of them. You really just need the core information: HP, Size, Max Cap for energy, at least one Charging Crystal, Main Functions (Invisibility, Teleport, Resist Energy, etc.), your basic weapon systems, and your propulsion. Beyond those, you're really just being excessive.

Classes of Mech and Skyship
"Classes" for mechs and skyships are basic denomination to know what your dealing with. "Four Titan-Class mechs on their way", "Got a Pixie heading in now", etc.


Skyships:

[tr]
Name
Usual Size
Description


Tarrasque
Colossal (Truly)
These are huge war carriers. Includes Star Destroyers and the Battlestar Galactica


Dragon
Colossal (moderate) or Gargantuan
Smaller warbirds


Gargoyle
Huge
2-man fighter. Usually one steers and controls axillary functions while the other focuses on gunning


Phoenix
Large
1-man fighter. Usually short-range, intended for coupling with a Tarrasque


Efreeti
Medium
Unmanned fighters


Couatl
Huge
Scientific vessels


Pixie
Tiny
Sensor/spy probe


Roc
Gargantuan
Transport. Rarely armed


Griffin
Huge
Smaller transport, more often privately owned


Pegasus
Large
Even smaller transport, fitting one person. Almost always privately owned.


Imp Flier
Small
General utility flier



Mechs:


[td]Name
Size
Description


Titan
Huge
Larger mech, usually made for an occupant


Giant
Large
Standard mech for an occupant


Rogue
Large
Lighter version of the Giant, made for scouting


Warforged
Medium
Where did you think they came from?


Bullete
Huge
Tank. Made for usually two people.


Wyvern
Huge
Walker with at twinned gun set, mounted on either side. Think "Goliath" from starcraft.


Imp Walker
Small
Utility bot. Doesn't have to be humanoid


Familiar
Tiny
Companion bot.



New(ish) Skills
Craft (Mechanics): Allows you to make gears and other moving parts. Required for making the Mechanics for Skyships and Mechs. Used for making the limbs as well. And pretty much any machine you can think of.

Magitech (Int): The skill for this system. Used for analyzing, modifying, and creating Magitech systems. This skill is added to the skill list of any wizard, cleric, or other character you feel would have tutelage in these ways. Obviously only characters being raised in an environment where this technology is common would have it as a class skill.



DC
Task


15
Comprehend wiring


20
Program a Cognition Core


20
Swap Components


25
Reconfigure Components


10+1/1000 gp
Make a Schematic



Comprehend Wiring: 2 Full Round actions. Gives you a basic understanding of what you're looking at. "This goes from this to this. This wire would make things blow up".
Program: Basic instructions for a Cognition Core (The sentient magic items with only an Int of 6). Takes a Full Round.
Swap Components: 1 minute. Allows you to swap two Runestones/staves. Takes a bit of fiddling to get it to stick just right. Made as a check to remove, and a check to replace, each requiring the listed time.
Reconfigure Components: 10 minutes. Resize a tapestry, change batteries, change connections, etc.
Set Easy Swap: This has been altered and is now an enchanting option for Tapestries. See that section for more information.
Make Schematic: This allows you to make a Schematic for a device. You make this check as a craft check, with one fourth the cost of the item as the target amount (You don't need to pay 1/3) and progress being measured in Gp/week or Sp/day (10 times usual progress rate). Only one person may directly work on the schematic, though others can Aid Another. The device may not include anything besides mechanical parts, the casing, and magitech components (including runestaves, Charging Crystals, and Experience Capacitors). The Schematic must include at least two components which may not be connected on an Easy Swap. Actually, no components included in the schematic may be held together with an Easy Swap. When going off of a Schematic for a device, you make the device as a whole. The Casing, and Magitech components all come together as a single unit. You make the device as a single device (though you spend the time on enchanting v crafting as separate), and this makes things easier and more streamlined. A schematic halves the cost of enchanting the magic components. Yay, 5k for a Scorching Ray Gun! It takes a DC 30 Magitech check to modify any part out of a Schematic Device, taking one minute. Failure by 5 or more causes the part being put in or taken out to be damaged, and must be repaired before it can be used again. It is possible to upgrade a Schematic Device, but you must pay the full price for doing so and must make a check as if you were modifying it. You get a +10 on modification checks if you actually have the Schematic with you.
Use the thingymabobber: At least one rank in this skill is required to operate complex Magitechnology (Such as a Mech suit, Skyship, or advanced device, but not simple handheld devices).

For everything except the last two, you get a +5 on the attempt if all components involved were made by you.

Note that a Schematic may be stored in a Databank. It itself is not magical and can be copied or transcribed without the need for all of that work. As such, they are guarded like Artifacts.

Pilot (Dex): This skill is to be used with Skyships of Average Maneuverability (Whether you're in it or using a remote-control device). Please note that this entire skill is just the "Fly" skill from Pathfinder re-purposed. It's not my fault it works so well.



DC
Task


10
Move less than half speed


15
Hover


15
Turn more than 45 degrees with 5ft movement


20
Turn 180 degrees with 10ft movement


20
Fly up at an angle greater than 60 degrees



These are pretty self explanatory. See the "Maneuverability" rules.
I like describing how you Hover though. If you rapidly work the Spheres around in the right ways, with a decent knowledge of the craft, you can balance it pretty well. Or you can stall.

Which button is "Go"?: One rank in Pilot is needed to fly any sort of Skyship.

Also note that you cannot add more than your ranks in Pilot/2 in Dex Modifier to your AC while piloting a Skyship. So if you have Pilot 4 and a Dex of 16, you'd only get to add 2 to your AC. This section of Pilot is applicable to all Skyships not of Colossal size.

Synergy: +2 on Pilot checks if you have 5 or more in Magitech.

CRASHES
You know you're PCs are going to try it. I've been fooling around with numbers and generally got the following equation for a decent amount of damage from collisions. This was made primarily with Create Thrust in mind.

Take your ft/round. Divide that by 40. Square that. Multiply that by your weight divided by 120. Then that's the raw d6 damage.

(Speed/(40ft/round))*(Speed/(40ft/round)*(Weight/120lb))d6 damage.

Now this may seem a bit daunting. Well, it can be simplified to Speed squared X Weight= Damage. Wait... Speed, weight as in mass, and damage as in energy? E=MC2? Anyways...

This damage is dealt to both the speeding object and the target. However, neither will take more damage than the other can. As in if the ship hits a piece of paper, it can't take more damage than the paper has HP. Craft take this damage to their main HP, applying Hardness only once. However, the damage is also dealt locally to all areas hit, possibly resulting in a breach.

These numbers are still affected normally by the whole 1/3 damage to occupants stuff, with Con worth of it being nonlethal. This results in a standard fighter crashing being about enough to kill the occupant if they aren't really hearty or having special precautions.

This opens up another use of Create Thrust: Projectile objects. A tube for guiding, a large 5lb object large enough to fill said tube, with a casting device with trigger attached to the tube to cast Create Thrust on the object. Sorry did I just make a Rocket Launcher? What if you slapped a Delayed Fireball on this first? Anyways, I added the 5lb limit on the Create Thrust spell because of this application. Otherwise you end up with that .1 lb rock dealing a few hundred or thousand damage. The result is as follows:

It's most effective to use 5lb projectiles, as speed is weighed more heavily than mass is for terms of damage. This results in the speed being 120/5*20, or 480 ft/round. Now, we have 480/40 squared, times 5/120, which results in... 6. That's 6d6 damage that would be delivered upon impact, and is the optimum amount from a single casting of Create Thrust, a second level spell. "6d6 for second level? SIGN ME UP!" Not quite that easy. This would require a normal attack roll and can't have metamagic such as Empower or Maximize applied to it. On the plus side, it's normal damage, not energy damage, which means that it isn't reduced when being applied to objects. The other downside is that this thing has 5lb projectiles. Have fun lugging those around. And without a proper launching tube, you can't really aim (whether or not you're the one casting the spell). As such, without a tube you cannot apply your AB, it just kinda flies off in that direction.

On the macro scale, a colossal Skyship on just impulse power (Let's say a paltry 80ft/round), weighing 45,000 lb, would have an equation of 80/40 squared times 45,000/120, or 4 times 375, or 1500. D6. Average result of a d6 is 3.5... an average of 5250 damage. A ship this size has a volume of around 2,000,000 cubic feet, resulting in... 3860 HP. This means that chances are that it could not survive a head-on collision with something like the ground. But keep in mind that it can't take more damage than it's target, and what has that much HP besides another massive ship?


Additional Classes



Magitechnician
http://images.epilogue.net/users/sseal/Kitaro_Final.jpg
"I know MAGIC SCIENCE"

The Magitechnician is a caster specializing in the Magitechnological ways. It's a PrC.

Requirements: Craft Tapestry, Spellcraft 8, Magitech 8, Craft (Mechanics) 4, Craft (Metalworking) 4.

D4 hit die.
Int+4 skills per level. Class skills: Knowledge (all taken individually), Craft (all taken individually), Magitech, Spellcraft, Concentration, Decipher Script, Profession, Pilot.



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Crafting Reserve, Diagnostics 1/day


2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Craft Magitech


3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Quick Crafting


4
+2
+1
+1
+4
Quick Comprehension


5
+2
+1
+1
+4
Magitech Sense




Spellcasting: As if you went up in your original spellcasting class, you don't get other features, you must choose which if you have more than one, yadda yadda.
Crafting Reserve: The Magitechnician gains an amount of EXP usable only for making magic items. Each level he gains a reserve of 100XClass level experience points for this purpose.
Craft Magitech: Two levels after the requirement of a CL 5... You must qualify for the Craft Magitech feat! Here, it's free.
Quick Crafting: You make Magitech Components at twice the normal rate (2,000 per day) and make Mechanics and Metal twice as fast as well (double the result of your progress).
Quick Comprehension: Halve the time it takes you to comprehend wiring, swap components, or reconfigure components. You know this.
Magitech Sense: Treat all components as if they were made by you for purposes of skill checks. You can tell the level and type of a Tapestry, runestone, runestaff, or battery by spending a move action analyzing it.

SEE BELOW FOR ARCANE ENGINEER CLASS

Magitech and Other Magic Items
This is a bit of a thorny area. This system pretty much ignores other magic items, save for the ability to activate them with a tapestry. You could fill pretty much any magic need with this system. A Magic Sword would simply have a device attached to the hilt which was a 1 cap battery, a tiny tapestry, a button, and a runestone of Magic Weapon. Use a Schematic for this, and it's only a bit more expensive than it's normal counterpart. And it could be upgraded or transferred to another weapon. But it requires recharging. Higher level characters would probably have at least one Charging Crystal to fuel their stuff, but an Arcane Caster on the team would still be very useful.

So there are a couple of options. You could say that in your game world, magitech is long gone technology, all but forgotten, and use primarily default magic items, with a scattering of these archaic devices. You could say that this technology is the "Big Thing" and that there are almost no magic items of other sorts. Or you could say they both exist and each have their ups and downs.

Runestaves, and even normal wands are all pretty central to this system, so I would advise you to leave those as they are. The rest however- "Magic Arms and Armor" and "Wondrous Items", should be assigned a particular role in relation to Magitech.

You may make a rule derived from the "Too Much of Anything" principle that causes Magitech to act strangely upon and around other magic items. Possibly escalating to the point where mixing the two creates an explosion. You go the explosion route, if the other magic item is passive, it contributes a number of spell levels to the blast equal to the highest spell level the CL could cast.

All of the ideas in this section are only suggestions. It's up to you to decide how Magitech works in your game world. I'm just a service provider.

Basic Devices that Should be Covered
Basic array of personal firearms (Scorching Ray Gun? They aren't that hard.)

Basic array of mechs and skyships (Try to have one of each class. PCs will almost certainly requisition custom models. Models for NPC can be pretty easily inferred)

Flame Blade (My custom spell+Casting Device. There's a reason the Jedi use Lightsabers. THEY WORK. This combination generally makes sense and you can expect Flame Daggers and Blades to be used by any self-respecting melee combatant capable of obtaining them. Makes Str a little less useful)

Transporter (Dimension Door or Teleport, usually with Enlarge on the Tapestry. Players to be transported must be in contact with the device. A tad costly, but saves a wizard.)

Basic Turret (Stat a turret with whatever offensive spells you like. You can then say that it's the "Basic Model" and use it on defense platforms, skyships, and walls alike. Scorching Ray, Fireball, Dispel Magic, lightning bolt, and magic missile ought to do ya. If you don't want costly 4/day and 5/day stones, just get multiples on the same turret.)

I leave these concepts open to interpretation. It's more fun that way.

Special Thanks
Many people have helped develop this system, the following being some of those who did the most towards that end.

Jack Simth
http://home.comcast.net/~jlbuchanan1/UFO.jpg

Ralasha
http://www.giantitp.com/avatars/DruidGirl.gif

3SecondCultist
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/araveugnitsuga/SorinMarkovAvatar.png

Jojolagger
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9717/anonoots.png

Endragor
-Insert Avatar Here-

Radmelon
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/radmelon/mushroom_druid2.png

Elfstone
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6910/elfstonearagorn.png

Thank you!

[HunterOfJello]

This setting and city sound really cool. I'd love to see more specifics about it.

[Salbazier]

Heh, why not? :smallbiggrin: I love magitech

That said, mods will knew better, but if this include things that are not RAW perhaps it will suit better in the Homebrew

[The-Mage-King]

Absolutely!

[Welknair]

Arcane Engineer
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/097/9/f/the_cartographer_by_iisketchii-d3cvvhj.jpg
"Nerd, am I?"

The long awaited Base Class for the system! This class may emulate some of the features of the Artificer, though I still haven't actually read the Eberron book, so any similarity is due to the overlap in field of expertise. Anyways, the Arcane Scholar is a modified version of the Wizard. They forgo advanced combat training and can't specialize in a school. They get a bunch of free crafting feats, and most notably the ability to make temporary Magitech Devices. And to use nearly any spell in said making.

D4 hit die.
Int+4 skills per level. Class skills: Appraise, Concentration, Decipher Script, Craft (all taken individually), Disable Device, Knowledge (all taken individually), Magitech, Profession, Pilot, Profession, Spellcraft.



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Temporary Craft Points


1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Rote spells, Temporary Craft, Item Crafting
5


2
+1
+0
+0
+3

6


3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Rote Use
8


4
+2
+1
+1
+4

11


5
+2
+1
+1
+4
Craft Tapestry
15


6
+3
+2
+2
+5

20


7
+3
+2
+2
+5
Craft Magitech
26


8
+4
+2
+2
+6

33


9
+4
+3
+3
+6

41


10
+5
+3
+3
+7
Bonus Feat
50


11
+5
+3
+3
+7

60


12
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
Craft Ephemeral Tapestry
71


13
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8

83


14
+7/+2
+4
+4
+9

96


15
+7/+2
+5
+5
+9
Bonus Feat
110


16
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10

125


17
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10

142


18
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
Rote Use 2
160


19
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11

179


20
+10/+5
+6
+6
+12
Bonus Feat
199



Spells: The Arcane Engineer casts a number of spells per day drawn from an intentionally narrow list, mainly derived from the Wizard/Sorcerer list. The key Ability score is Int. The Arcane Scholar need not prepare spells, nor do they need to choose spells known when they level - their spell list is the same as their list of spells known. The number and level of spells they cast is the same as that of a normal Wizard, and I feel no need to repost the chart here. I'll post a spell list at the end of this.

Rote Spells: One of the defining features of the Arcane Engineer is their ability to learn absolutely any spell. For the purpose of making magic items, anyways. Arcane Engineers learn a number of "Rotes" each level - These are spells which they have memorized to the point that they innately know their workings - but not as to be able to cast them. When they make a magic item, they are treated as being able to cast any of their Rotes for the purpose of making such an item. Each level they learn 3 Rotes, but these must be from a class to which the Engineer has been exposed, they cannot learn a rote if it exceeds the level which they would be able to cast, or if they do not know at least one rote of each spell level below the level they wish to learn for the given class (If they wanted to get a Divine Favor Rote, they would first need a 0-level Cleric Rote). As this example would indicate, they are not limited to Arcane Rotes. Arcane Engineers can also write Spell Manuals, a lesser cousin of a spell book. Here they detail various Rotes such that others can read and learn them. Each Rote takes a single page, regardless of level and takes no magic ink to write. If an Engineer encounters a Rote which they wish to internalize, they make checks as if they were trying to copy a spell from someone else's spellbook. If they succeed, they learn the Rote. They still cannot learn Rotes of a higher level than they can cast. Also note that they can make the same check when confronted by other magical text detailing the spell (Spellbooks and Scrolls, usually) and learning from these do not suck said magic out of them. Note: These are Higher Rotes, as they allow the person who knows them to create Magic Items with them. I have stats for a few classes that learn Lesser Rotes, which only allow modification of items... If an Arcane Engineer has levels in another class which grants spells, those spells count towards the spell level requirement for learning Rotes of that class. As in, a Cleric 3, AE 7 could just start getting 3rd level Cleric Rotes without needing lower level ones first. In such a circumstance, the AE would use his AE CL for making magic items involving any Rote he knows, which may mean getting Rotes of spells he already knows from other classes may be beneficial. If an AE may learn Cleric Domain spells, but treat each domain as a separate branch off of 0-level Cleric Spells. So once you have a 0-level Cleric rote, you can learn any of the 1st level Cleric Domain Rotes, but you need the 1st spell in a Domain line before you can learn the second.

Temporary Craft: The Arcane Engineer has the unique ability to pull a MacGyver with Magitech. They can take any random bunch of materials and jury-rig it into something usable - however it doesn't last long. You can empower normal cloth, string, or the like as a Tapestry with up to your CL, turn a stone into a runestone of a spell (or rote) you know, or a similar stone into a battery with a cap up to to your CLX3. Different effects require different numbers of Temporary Craft Points. If you have Craft Staff, you can fashion Temporary Runestaves, if you have Craft Ephemeral Tapestry, you can make the cloth Ephemeral. Your TCP replenish each day along with your spells.

Runestones and Staves that you make with this ability can contain any spell that you know, have a rote of, or have prepared. The actual slot is not lost if you know or have the spell prepared.

You make all included parts at once, taking 1 minute/ 2 TCP

The cloth/string takes on the weight of a corresponding Tapestry and can be stretched or compressed one size category in either direction, though cannot pass Large. Similarly a Temporary Battery must already be of an appropriate size and gains the appropriate weight.



Item
TCP Cost


Tapestry
1/CL


Ephemeral Tap
As a Chassi of the same size


One Easy-Swap End
1


Metamagic Feat
1/Slot Adjustment


Runestone
1/spell level


Runestaff
1/spell level (add them up)


Battery
1/Cap


Cognition Core
3


5 ft of Mechanics
1


Hand
1 per


Wheels
As Chassi


Legs or Treads
As Chassi +2


Duration of the lot
1/10 Minutes

[/td]
[/tr]


[tr]
[td]
Fine
Diminutive
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
Huge


Chassi
1
1
2
4
7
12
20



If you use this to make Chassi and Mechanics, it is through temporary transmutation effects. Which wear out after the Duration expires, causing the chassi and mechanics to revert back to their original form. Speaking of which, you need raw material for these elements still, and the material which you use will determine the Hardness and other stats of the object.

You must always spend at least one point in Duration.

The batteries that you make start with no charge, and the charges contained in them dissipate harmlessly when the Duration ends. This means you'll need some other source of Divine energy if you want to make Divine devices.

When/if you learn Cleric rotes, choose a patron and two of that patron's domains. You can learn rotes from those domains, but do not gain the domain powers.

You may go off of a Schematic when making a Temporary Craft. If you do so, halve the cost in TCP. This reduction correspondingly reduces the creation time.

You may use a Spell Manual to access any rotes contained therein without having to memorize the desired rote. You just need to study said rote for 10 minutes right before you start making whatever magic item requires the spell.

Item Crafting: An Arcane Engineer makes magic items as if they had a CL two higher than they actually do. This however does not allow them to learn spells that are still too high of a level. This mostly helps out with Tapestries and Batteries...

Rote Use: You gain the ability to add one of your Rotes to your Spell List for the day. If it is Divine, you cannot actually cast it, but you may enjoy magic items treating you as having it known (You can use that fancy Cure Moderate Wounds wand!). You may change your choice when you first awake after a standard 8-hours rest. Treat the spell as if it were two slots higher. You may not choose a spell whose adjusted slot is beyond what you could normally cast. At level 18 you can choose 2 rotes a day to add to your list.

Note: Multiclassing to a Divine class for one level to get Alternate Source Spell is a common practice, as it allows Arcane Engineers to charge Divine devices without having to have a Divine caster on hand. Archivist is usually favored due to Key ability and Theme matching those of the Arcane Engineer.

Spell List: (Note: All of these can be found here, in the PHB, or in the Spell Compendium.)
0: Repair Minor Damage, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Stick, Light, Mage Hand, Amanuensis, Mending, Launch Bolt, Launch Item, Open/Close
1: Repair Light Damage, Diagnostics, Relay 1, Transit, Alarm, Tenser's Floating Disk, Magic Weapon, Shield, Erase, Appraising Touch, Grease, Identify, Slide, Unseen Servent, Comprehend Languages, Magic Missile
2: Repair Moderate Damage, Relay 2, Access, Restrict, Arcane Lock, Whispering Wind, Store Magitech Device, Locate Object, Resist Energy, Flame Dagger, Mechanus Mind, Shatter, Knock, Create Thrust, Make Whole
3: Repair Serious Damage, Relay 3, Tongues, Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy, Nondetection, Arcane Sight, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Secret Page, Shrink Item, Flame Blade, Weapon of Energy, Weapon of Impact, Hold Person, Greater Amanuensis, Magic Vestment, Increase
4: Repair Critical Damage, Relay 4, Animate Mechanics (AM) 1, Scrying, Dimensional Anchor, Detect Scrying, Spell Enhancer, Remove Curse, Dimension Door, Minor Creation, Stone Shape
5: AM 2, Overload, Overload Protector, Interface, Break Enchantment, Sending, Permanency, Dismissal, Major Creation, Symbol of Spell Loss, Leomund's Secret Chest, Fabricate
6: AM 3, Repulsion, Legend Lore, Analyze Dweomer, Disintegrate, Transcribe Symbol, Hardening, True Seeing, Antimagic Field, Greater Dispel Magic, Wall of Gears, Contingency
7: AM 4, Energy Absorption Field, Energy Transformation Field, Greater Arcane Sight, Body of War, Spell Turning
8: AM 5, Dimensional Lock, Mind Blank, Temporal Stasis
9: AM 6, Disjunction, Timestop, Absorption, Magic Miasma, Reality Maelstrom, Reaving Dispel, Awaken Construct, Replicate Casting, Pass On

As you can see, the Arcane Engineer spell list is intentionally narrow and focuses on what makes magic (and the universe) tick, giving it an abjuration/divination/transmutation tilt. Be wary adding spells to this list.






Heh, why not? :smallbiggrin: I love magitech

That said, mods will knew better, but if this include things that are not RAW perhaps it will suit better in the Homebrew

Woops, completely forgot that we had a section just for Homebrew... Yeah, it should go there. So should I repost, or just wait for a Moderator to move it?


This is more Homebrew than RAW, but it does build off of existing principles, just not existing systems. I'll post the full version when I have time. :smallbiggrin:(I have something like eight pages of notes and stats...)

[Salbazier]

Woops, completely forgot that we had a section just for Homebrew... Yeah, it should go there. So should I repost, or just wait for a Moderator to move it?


This is more Homebrew than RAW, but it does build off of existing principles, just not existing systems. I'll post the full version when I have time. :smallbiggrin:(I have something like eight pages of notes and stats...)

Just report it to mod and they'll move it. Save you the trouble of re-posting and save thsi thread from being useless.

[Welknair]

Hmm. Is there anyway to insert a table so I could better format the information?
Found it.

[Jack_Simth]

Woops, completely forgot that we had a section just for Homebrew... Yeah, it should go there. So should I repost, or just wait for a Moderator to move it?The general method is to politely PM a mod.

As for various things?
Check out the trap rules in the DMG. Very, very flexible. Automatic reset magic traps don't have a required minimum 'recharge time' - so you can make 'traps' of beneficial spells like, say, Endure Elements, Cure Light Wounds, Cure Blindness, Cure Deafness, Neutralize Poison, Cure Disease, Create Food and Water (with Prestidigitation, so it tastes good), and others.

Energy Transformation Field (Spell Compendium, page 80) can be used the same way, and is less expensive to set up for spell effects of 3rd level or higher, although it needs to be specifically activated. It can take energy from activation of magic items, so all you need to add is a relatively inexpensive magic item that can activate some spell effect or other at will. It uses a specific example of an immovable rod in the spell description - which is just 5k. We can do better, though - a Phylactery of Faithfulness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#phylacteryofFaithfulness) is a magic item that you activate with a moment's thought, can use at will, uses 1st level spells, and costs only 1k (if the DM decides that's a continuous effect, rather than an activated item, use the Hat of Disguise at 1,800 gp).

For lighting, just Planar Bind a Latern Archon. Seriously - they've got Continual Flame as a spell-like ability, usable at will, as a standard action, and they don't need to sleep. A day's labor from one on a bunch of prepared objects (let's go with, oh, copper coins, and just put them wherever we want light), and we can get 14,400 of them - which will get a LARGE area lit up. It's a no heat light, so to turn it 'off', you simply put a light-proof cover over it.

[Welknair]

I've actually made a modified version of Energy Transformation Field (A favorite of mine) so that it's a bit more shapable, less permanent, and instead of casting spells, recharges a battery!

Sadly, a number of citizens were opposed to enslaving angels...

[Welknair]

Comments on the info thusfar?

[Critical]

Damn, I'm bookmarking this.

[Welknair]

Damn, I'm bookmarking this.

More to come. MUCH more to come...

I'd be very interested in how campaign set in a world where the technology was prevalent would go... And yes, I have stats for operating mech suits and skyships. It's coming.

[Jack_Simth]

I've actually made a modified version of Energy Transformation Field (A favorite of mine) so that it's a bit more shapable, less permanent, and instead of casting spells, recharges a battery!

Sadly, a number of citizens were opposed to enslaving angels...

So use Lesser Planar Ally and pay them the ... 500 gp for a days/level nonhazardous task. Which may be halved or even waived completely, if lighting up a city to reduce the options for criminals qualifies as a task "strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos" for a Lawful-Good Lantern Archon. Maybe find a Lantern Archon associated with Pelor.

[Welknair]

So use Lesser Planar Ally and pay them the ... 500 gp for a days/level nonhazardous task. Which may be halved or even waived completely, if lighting up a city to reduce the options for criminals qualifies as a task "strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos" for a Lawful-Good Lantern Archon. Maybe find a Lantern Archon associated with Pelor.

Hmm. Not a bad idea. Couldn't we also use a Permanent Image of a large flame?

[Critical]

Hmm. Not a bad idea. Couldn't we also use a Permanent Image of a large flame?

That won't work, since illusions don't provide light per say.

Oh, and I'll definitely be interested in other stuff, I planned to run a campaign with "magitech" elements here and there for some time.

[Welknair]

That won't work, since illusions don't provide light per say.

Oh, and I'll definitely be interested in other stuff, I planned to run a campaign with "magitech" elements here and there for some time.

Ehh, you're right. Anyways, I'd advise you to take a look at the second post in this thread. It's getting longer.

[Jack_Simth]

That won't work, since illusions don't provide light per say.
Actually, the restriction that illusions don't provide real light was removed in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition. At the same time they moved Continual Flame from Illusion to Evocation. Make of that what you will.

[Welknair]

Actually, the restriction that illusions don't provide real light was removed in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition. At the same time they moved Continual Flame from Illusion to Evocation. Make of that what you will.

Continual Flame! That was the spell I was thinking of! Anyways, Permanent Image + Continual Flame would provide for most of the permanent light needs.

[Critical]

Actually, the restriction that illusions don't provide real light was removed in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition.

Really? That's weird, one of my DM's said that my Silent Image can't produce light via RAW. Any source on this?

[Jack_Simth]

Really? That's weird, one of my DM's said that my Silent Image can't produce light via RAW. Any source on this?
If he's playing 3.0, he's unambiguously correct. 3.0 Player's Handbook, page 158:

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects th way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creates, support weight, provide nutrition, illuminate darkness, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, ...(Emphasis added)

So, of course, the 3.0 version of Continual Flame (page 188 of the 3.0 Player's Handbook) is an Illusion (Figment), which means the spell cannot do what it's clearly intended to do.

The 3.5 Player's Handbook, on the other hand, has the same passage, minus that troublesome phrase, on page 173:

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, ...
At the same time, Continual Flame was changed to Evocation(Light) (page 213 of the 3.5 player's handbook).

Either change would have fixed the Continual Flame problem right up. They did both.

Now, while your DM is well within his rights to say that 'cannot produce real effects' includes true illumination (it's not a clear-cut thing), the explicit example that it couldn't was specifically removed in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition.

As I said: Make of this what you will.



A bit back on topic:

More to come. MUCH more to come...

I'd be very interested in how campaign set in a world where the technology was prevalent would go... And yes, I have stats for operating mech suits and skyships. It's coming.
Well, once you get to the point where magic can handle all the day-to-day needs of the citizenry (Which it can, quite easily - Create Food and Water + Trap Rules = Uncapped amounts of food. Energy Transformation Field + a Paladin's Dectet Evil ability + Create Food and Water spell = uncaped amounts of food), then things look like what the powers-that-be want them to look like (if the powers that be are smart, anyway).

Suppose, for instance, that I am a Cleric-7 with Craft Wondrous Item, Leadership, and a bunch of GP and XP I want to burn. I have a Wizard-5 Cohort, and a bunch of NPC-classed followers, and a building under my control.

I (ab)use the trap rules to create automatic reset "traps" of useful spells, all running in a row. Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, and Create Food and Water. When I'm making the Create Food and Water trap, I also have my Wizard Cohort help me out, putting in Prestidigitation, to make it taste like any of a few hundred dishes, picked at random. Anyone and everyone walking down the hallway with a bowl in hand gets cured of minor injuries, inured to normal weather, cured of most afflictions, and at the end his bowl is filled with some tasty food (enough to feed his entire family, usually).

I have my followers charge, say, 5 cp to walk down the hallway (untrained hirelings are paid 1 sp/day). For now, any money I collect goes into my coffers, which for the moment we'll assume are impregnable, and for the moment we'll say this 'traps' coins (I'm not spending money, yet).

What happens?

Well, there's going to be a large, but essentially fixed, number of coins in a given area. I have negligible operational expenses (just a really big setup cost), so I don't need to spend coins. So every time someone walks the hallway, five copper coins are drained from the local economy. As there's only so many coins in the local economy, sooner or later (unless something stops me), there will be a problem: Few, if any, coins in the economy. Eventually, you have a recession, depression, or even a full economic collapse - your employer can't pay you, as nobody has coins to buy his goods. You can't pay rent, as you don't have any coins to give to your landlord. Everyone (except me) goes slowly bankrupt.

Now, to stop this from happening, I change how I work with coins. I start spending money. I purchase buildings, which I then have other followers manage as landlords. I hire people at just a bit below prevailing wage for the type of work (but make sure their wages are enough that working five days gets them through my line for seven days - 7 cp/day for an untrained laborer, say). People work for me when there's no other reasonable alternatives... which will soon become the case, as my line is a very attractive thing to go through (if you do it every day, you can skip rent, and you don't need to pay extra for food - all your physical needs handled, for 5 cp /day).

If nothing interrupts me, I'm eventually employing essentially everyone, either directly or indirectly.

What do I have them do? Whatever I want. The actual essentials of maintaining this can be handled by a few dozen individuals - my Cohort and my followers. In this scenario, I'm a Cleric, I have a deity. If my deity is a patron of the arts, I'm probably employing them to gather crafting materials for other employees who make assorted art objects. If my deity is a deity of magic, I'm probably employing them to gather spell components. If my deity is a warrior-type, I'm probably building an army. And so on. The point is that with a fairly simple plan, I can make society look like pretty much anything I want, simply by paying people to take that slant.

If I want to make everyone's lives better, well, I start putting people in training. Those who will not work will not eat. I make sure to put everyone in a specialized task - craftsmen, miners, solders, artists, more clerics, whatever. But everyone needs training.

So what you'd get - in this scenario, at least - is one guy (or one small organization) calling the shots for everyone in a fairly sizable town. There will be a few constants:

1) The town is liable to end up 'specialized' - that is, most people are in the same general line of work, whether it's the specific thing the person running the place is directly hiring, or supporting industries.
2) The cost of hiring someone will be lower here than elsewhere.
3) The cost of living will be lower here than elsewhere.
4) There's one person (or a small number of people) who calls the shots (although this person isn't necessarily obvious at all).
5) There will be fewer buildings than most places (everyone has Endure Elements up constantly - most weather doesn't bother them at all)
6) Almost no clothing will not be based around practicality, unless it's directly related to a trade (everyone has Endure Elements up constantly).
7) There will be few (if any) beggars on the streets (almost all afflictions go away for 5 cp, and I'm deliberately setting it up so everyone who wants to work can - so anyone with a beggar's bowl is there by choice)
8) There is little, if any, farmland. There's no need. Just what's needed to get stuff for material goods - forests for wood, mines for coal and ore, flax fields for linen, cotton fields, sheep pasture, that kind of thing. But almost nobody is an actual farmer, and the stuff that still needs land doesn't need much of it - so you'll have a walled city that is out in the middle of nowhere, self-sufficient, and doesn't really bother to patrol the surrounding lands at all.

[Welknair]

Wow. That system does make sense, though I probably wouldn't allow that in my game as, as you said, it requires abusing the trap rules. However, the end effect is going to result from pretty much any enterprise headed by a sufficiently ambitious and competent caster. Any comments on the system illustrated so far in post 2?

[ocel]

Couldn't the dm invoke rule zero, and just state: due to the revenue, the value of the [insert currency here] is practically worthless; thus making magic items cost more than their original price? Of course you could make your society like startrek, where the money is pratically worthless, but that would make getting magic items like Paranoia.

Of-course the dm can easily ban half of those feats, I have yet to find a dm who permits "Leadership" without limiting the degree of customization per npc.

[Jack_Simth]

Wow. That system does make sense, though I probably wouldn't allow that in my game as, as you said, it requires abusing the trap rules. However, the end effect is going to result from pretty much any enterprise headed by a sufficiently ambitious and competent caster. Any comments on the system illustrated so far in post 2?
Well, you either have the capacity for a self-recharging system that makes abused traps look expensive (Battery to 3+connection tapestry. One of the connections on the tapestry is a spell effect that feeds back into the battery. The other is a spell effect that feeds into whatever you actually want to power... which now goes off every round, being constantly powered.), or you have something that's quite pointless.

If the Runestones can only go off so many times per day regardless of how much battery charge is behind them, they might impact a few individuals, but they won't much impact society at large (they're too expensive for most people).

If the tapestry size is measured the same way creature size is, you've got a problem: Creatures aren't very big, compared to cities. The 64 foot cap of Gargantuan is... maybe the size of a decent-sized house. OK, so you wire up an apartment complex... you have a 20,000 gp tapestry (25 connections, Colossal) connected to 25 orbs for lighting up the place. You cast Light into the tapestry, and all of them light up, illuminating your complex for several hours.

For that same 20,000 gp, you could hire 181 castings of Continual Flame at regular retail price, instead. Cast them on permanent wall fixtures. A simple clay jar next to them, and people can turn them off at will by covering them up.

So you're not going to be using this for lighting your apartment complex (although you might use it in the manufacture of everburning torches).

To check what effect this type of thing will have on society, first figure out something you might do with it, then figure out how you'd go about doing that same task normally.

In general: It's not really going to help much of anything.


Couldn't the dm invoke rule zero, and just state: due to the revenue, the value of the [insert currency here] is practically worthless; thus making magic items cost more than their original price? Of course you could make your society like startrek, where the money is pratically worthless, but that would make getting magic items like Paranoia.

Of-course the dm can easily ban half of those feats, I have yet to find a dm who permits "Leadership" without limiting the degree of customization per npc.The GM can of course invoke rule 0 to do anything he wants.

The Wizard Cohort was taken for Prestidigitation: a 0-level cantrip: *every* wizard knows it, regardless of specialty (it's Universal), unless they've lost their spellbook. That's the only reason he's there, really.

The Followers don't need any specific class combination. Really, they're just there to be trusted cashiers.

As for the bit on money: Huh? Seriously? We're not making money out of thin air here (like with Wall of Iron), we're just manipulating an economy to change how cash flows in a way that benefits us, essentially arranging to convince everyone to work for us for food, health, and shelter-substitute, which we have a neigh-limitless amount of thanks to the magic trap rules and an initial investment of around 50,000 gp and around 4,000 xp. It'll take decades, if not centuries, to have that sort of an effect on the local economy anyway with that particular route. If money changes value, you just change prices & wages along with it, and it doesn't matter anymore. Meanwhile, the goods people are producing for you have their effective price based on their utility - which is reasonably fixed.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Seems pretty expensive for spell plumbing. Turning one light spell into two light spells shouldn't cost so much. (Of course, multiplying the effectiveness of more useful spells like cure and flaming hands ought to cost more, but you can account for that.)

I would make them more specialized (keyed to a specific spell school or spell descriptor) and cheaper. I would also give them a Caster Level rating, any spell cast at higher than a specified caster level will have a 5% chance per caster level to destroy each end of the conduit. Powerful mages should exercise restraint and voluntarily choose to lower their caster level to avoid costly repairs. (That way you can have magical lighting done however you want, but casting daylight through it is bound to break things.) Lighting a street shouldn't cost more than 200 gp to install.

Anyways, I like the idea. I hate Medieval settings where PCs can't even find toilet paper and nobody uses soap. Even without magic, cities ought to have good sanitation and standards of living (even if they have to import it from elves or other long-lived races.)

[ocel]

The GM can of course invoke rule 0 to do anything he wants.

The Wizard Cohort was taken for Prestidigitation: a 0-level cantrip: *every* wizard knows it, regardless of specialty (it's Universal), unless they've lost their spellbook. That's the only reason he's there, really.

The Followers don't need any specific class combination. Really, they're just there to be trusted cashiers.

As for the bit on money: Huh? Seriously? We're not making money out of thin air here (like with Wall of Iron), we're just manipulating an economy to change how cash flows in a way that benefits us, essentially arranging to convince everyone to work for us for food, health, and shelter-substitute, which we have a neigh-limitless amount of thanks to the magic trap rules and an initial investment of around 50,000 gp and around 4,000 xp. It'll take decades, if not centuries, to have that sort of an effect on the local economy anyway with that particular route. If money changes value, you just change prices & wages along with it, and it doesn't matter anymore. Meanwhile, the goods people are producing for you have their effective price based on their utility - which is reasonably fixed.

Hmm' well if you put it that way, it doesn't sound too broken [for a dm not a player to use], .Still doubt a dm would permit a player to pull that off, unless he had a good reason. But suppose the campaign began when your trap became more prominent, and it was called an automated tax apparatus, designed to redistribute wealth, and the entire economy followed the letter of your previous posts, it would be a sort of magitek industrial revolution.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm' well if you put it that way, it doesn't sound too broken [for a dm not a player], infact a dm could use a trap like that to function like an pseudo automatic metro subway fare machine, taxing those whom cross the pathway, into the transportation guild's revenue.

Still doubt a dm would permit a player to pull that off, unless he had a good reason through.
Yes, you could build a subway on Dimension Door traps, quite effectively.

As for why I say it takes decades/centuries:

The DMG says the ready cash in the city is half the GP limit, times 1/10th the population. So a Small City of 10,000 people has 1,000*7,500=7,500,000 gp in cash. If *everyone* goes through the line every day, that's 50,000 cp (500 gp) drained from the economy in a day. It'll take 15,000 days (about 41 years) to drain the economy of coins completely. You'll be taking over before then, when the economy starts to collapse from lack of coinage, but this still isn't something that happens overnight, not by any stretch (figure about half the coins gone, at 20 years or so).

Oh yes, and to take over a metropolis this way? If there's 30,000 people, you're looking at 274 years for a complete coin drain, so around 137 years for a half-coinage economic takeover.


Hmm' well if you put it that way, it doesn't sound too broken [for a dm not a player to use], .Still doubt a dm would permit a player to pull that off, unless he had a good reason. But suppose the campaign began when your trap became more prominent, and it was called an automated tax apparatus, designed to redistribute wealth, and the entire economy followed the letter of your previous posts, it would be a sort of magitek industrial revolution.
You edited to something completely different...

And oh yes, this produces a 'points of light' campaign. Cities have little need to go into the surrounding countryside - so monsters take over outside them. Cities become close to impregnable (everyone's trained on something, and everyone can be trained on something skilled... and massed slingers with a mage in support for a Greater Magic Weapon spells (for DR penetration) and invisibility negation spells can take down Great Wyrms without too much trouble. However, away from the massed fire, monsters are safe from the cities, and individuals can get clobbered, easy.

And exiles from the cities form their own roving bands....

[Welknair]

Though this idea was originally begotten from spreading a light spell, it has since grown to be much more complex and expensive. Chances are that Continual Flames would be prevalent as you stated instead of using this system.

I'd say that Tapestries can be stretched a bit beyond their creature sizes. And Colossal is 64 and up. No cap put on that. I think I'll make it so Colossal requires epic level, but I'd allow it to span a city. Only the nobles and the like would actually be connected to the system and even then the spells would be worth something. We wouldn't be wasting the system on 0 level spells.

After a bit of jiggering, it became apparent that the system was better suited for small devices, mech suits, and skyships. The stats for the latter two are coming soon. The first is things along the line of the ray gun that I pointed out in my first post. Though it's quite expensive, a caster (who often has leftover spell levels) could store some energy and give this to a character with a higher AB. And technically it takes one hand to wield and as such could be dual-wielded. The skyships and mech suits are pure epic.

But yes, this system would be out of reach for the general populace.

[radmelon]

This looks to be quite an interesting idea. I'll keep my on on this.

[ocel]

yeah sorry about that, I edited it because it didn't sound coherent when I sent the first edition.

[ocel]

don't forget for every airship in a magitek setting there is a 1 to 10 chance it will have mecha as well, which falls under the category of gunmen from gurren lagan or guymelefs from escaflowne. And since we are on the subject a new more ballanced crafting class should be created.

note here are some gunmen from this forum: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105858

[Welknair]

I was thinking that a prestige class or two, and possibly even a core class, would work well with this system. Open to suggestions.

[ocel]

I do have a few ideas for the class: inventions can only last for so long, items can be decompartmentalized and resembled into a different device. for more, I would suggest looking at the NWoD fangame Genius the transgression, or the webcomic Girl Genius .

[Welknair]

Well I also have stats for a skill based on this system, focused on the comprehension, construction, and modification of these systems. They are made to be very modular such that you could scavenge parts from about anything...

[ocel]

maybe something like a tech tree, each part divided into subcategorizations of field of magic too. it would work like a wizard's school specialization only more restrictive.

[Welknair]

Hmm. I had originally considered keeping the schools of magic separate for purposes of power storage, but that didn't jive with the Rod of Absorption principal.

So are we thinking something along the lines of the Maester or Effigy Master?

[tzaan]

I'm totally willing to facepalm myself for being silly...but have you not just reinvented Eberron from scratch? I mean, it's really impressive that you've done it just by tweaking existing rules instead of making new ones but...yeah:smallconfused:

*prepares to abase himself for the ass-kicking*

[ocel]

true, but that doesn't mean we can not expand upon the genre that eberron is founded upon, for example lowering the tier of the artificer to homebrew a more balanced crafter class.

[tzaan]

oh no, I didn't mean that is was pointless. Not at all. It looks great and I'm sure it'll be even better when the niggly little bits are figured out.

If you're going with batteries and charges why not have the lights/generic utilities being wondrous items that require charges? it's more of an aesthetic thing than an actual workaround but meh. Magic plumbing: gotta recharge the boiler to have the continual flame heat the water?

[Jack_Simth]

If you're going with batteries and charges why not have the lights/generic utilities being wondrous items that require charges? it's more of an aesthetic thing than an actual workaround but meh. Magic plumbing: gotta recharge the boiler to have the continual flame heat the water?Continual Flame doesn't produce heat....

Now, an Energy Transformation Field, keyed to Wall of Fire, does (feed it 1 spell once per hour and it'll concentrate continuously)... but then, you can make Wall of Fire Permanent with a Permanency spell anyway, so the Energy Transformation Field isn't really required. Run steel pipes through it, fed by a reservoir that's refilled continuously by a few Decanters of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater), and you can provide an entire city with piping hot water (and an Archmage can make piping cold water, too, if you need - non-Core, there's Energy Substitution (Cold) to do that).

And not quite Eberron - but something reminiscent, yes.

You can make a subway by way of many Dimension Door traps - you want them at minimum caster level (as each increase in caster level adds a big chunk to the cost, but not quite as much to the distance), and have a long, disjointed hallway (you walk into a wall, and are suddenly 680 feet further down the path. Walk past the turn off point for the 'local station', and into the next wall, you're another 680 feet away... for walking ten feet). It goes better with Permanent Teleportation Circles (LONG distance travel, and fails safely, unlike Dimension Door, which can get you killed if the next station in line collapses... and the people behind you don't necessarily know about it, and so they get damage from a teleportation error too...), but that's much more expensive in terms of XP, too.

[Welknair]

1. I do not own any eberron books, nor have I ever played an eberron game. However, I do hear they have some level of magitech.

2. I actually have some notes on a few other devices. Namely the fact that they don't use my tapestry system for everything. "Who needs a landfill? We have a sphere of annihilation!" The tapestry system I thought was particularly cool and worthy of posting somewhere. You can of course infer that there would be plenty of permanent and semi-permanent effects throughout an advanced city. The Tapestry system was just a result of thinking about what would come of that setting.

3. Hmm. Yeah. Items could be modified a bit to work with the system. One of the spells I'll post about later today is "Create Thrust", used for skyships. This spell preceded Fly and Levitate, mostly due it's tendency to fail or send things, well, flying. So the concept that some things were a bit tougher (i.e. other magic items needing charge) could work well.

4. What I really like is that this puts magic in the hands of any adventurer with enough mulah. A ranger dual-wielding scorching rays, a barbarian in a mech suit, and fighter manning a magic-missile machine gun (Which ironically doesn't let him use is AB. Don't tell him).

[tzaan]

dude, you should seriously take a peek at Eberron if you haven't. You'll get loads of inspiration- magic trains on lightning rails, wand wielders (dual wielding wands gunslinger style with the Cannith Wand Adept) etc

they have skyships and whatnot powered by bound elementals. Your idea would be even better because Eberron just says "a skyship is powered by an enslaved elemental...and flies 'cos I said so". You could make an actual legit skyship with your system

hellz, with a renegade mastermaker and the half golems in MM2 (it is MM2 i think...) you even have precedent for cyborgs. Have them wack energy packs into some handy body plugs and they could have Bull's Strength or similar as a spell like effect instead of taking up an item slot

I should mention that I'm totally Eberron obsessed atm 'cos that's the campaign I'm currently in. Just read all the books so that's why I'm gushing like a fanboy

[Welknair]

Very cool. I have designed skyships and they actually have a principle behind them (namely a whole bunch of disks attached to runestones of Create Thrust, with the disks mounted on a pair of axis to turn in any direction).

As far as cyborgs, have you read the brief bit about sentient magic items?

Sentient Magic Item + Mech suit.... Yeah. If you don't have a person in there, it's a Cylon. (Admittedly there is a difference between sentient robots and cyborgs...)

[Hazzardevil]

I would love to play in this game!
I could be some sort of slap dash edit to make a psionic warlock messing aroud making magic items.

[Welknair]

I would love to play in this game!
I could be some sort of slap dash edit to make a psionic warlock messing aroud making magic items.

Glad you like it!

I have considered how Psions would feel about this. I'd assume the Wizards would intentionally make it such that Psionic energy was incompatible with their systems and mock the loser Psions.

Though technically, Psionics would work even better with this system than Spells would, asides from the base ideas all coming from spell craft. But the entire system could be adapted to Psionics pretty easily.

Spells up! All that's left are the mech suits and skyships!

[ocel]

don't forget more diverse engines then elementals, maybe something like guymelefs, where their powered by dragon hearts or other organs, kind of like blood magic from dragonage, or Morph Bark's hemoscrbe http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9522517&postcount=8

User oriented engines like guymelths or gunmen, could rely on the pilot's status for efficacy, of course not without some setbacks.

Edit know some splat books that might help you as well: Bastion Press, D20 system's Airships, By Sam Witt

[Welknair]

I actually have both of the remaining systems worked out to a playable degree.

What I don't have right now is class concepts for standard or prestige.

[Welknair]

Got the Magitechnician worked out. I'll probably make a Pilot PrC as well...

[Saint GoH]

I tried running a game where there was a Silverfall-esque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverfall) feel to it, and every time something "Techno" came up my players demanded how they worked in D&D terms. Sometimes, its really hard to explain why the frak there is power armor.

This whole thread just made that a lot easier :smallbiggrin: Definitely using this in my next game.

[Ralasha]

Hum, on the topic of a Magi-tech maker type... I have been working on something along those lines.. I call it an Untinker. It is capable of disassembling a magical item, and storing the spells from that item in unassigned spell slots. It also gains a certain percentage of the XP put into an item which does not count towards their levels, but can be used in magical item crafting. Would this work? Oh, nevermind, you have something. You know, you really could have just used the Artificer, Gnomish Tinker, and Maester classes.

[Welknair]

Glad you like it! :smallbiggrin:

Still to come: Mech/Robot and Skyship systems, Knowledge (Magitech) and Pilot skills, and the Magitechnician PrC.

I've spent the last couple of days designing the first Tarrasque-Class Cruiser.

"These are the adventures of the starship Owlbear, on it's...."

Yeah...

Edit: General ball park numbers: 10k will get you a basic utility droid or a turret (not including battery costs). The cruiser mentioned above has a budget of 25 million. 14 of that is just the hull, using realistic numbers for poundage and the like. In light of that, I don't think my costs are that bad. (15 for hull and internal mechanics, 5 for batteries, 1 for wiring, and 4 for weapons and miscellaneous systems)

[Welknair]

Hum, on the topic of a Magi-tech maker type... I have been working on something along those lines.. I call it an Untinker. It is capable of disassembling a magical item, and storing the spells from that item in unassigned spell slots. It also gains a certain percentage of the XP put into an item which does not count towards their levels, but can be used in magical item crafting. Would this work? Oh, nevermind, you have something. You know, you really could have just used the Artificer, Gnomish Tinker, and Maester classes.

I appear to have been Ninja'd! Sounds like a nice class, definitely one that could thrive in a world such as the one described. The Magitechnician uses a few things from the Maester, but specializes much more heavily in Magitech. As for the Artificer, I still don't have any of the Eberron books.

[Ralasha]

The only problem with the Untinker is... although it comes off of a caster, it doesn't get new spells, just new spell slots. Which it then fills by cannibalizing items. On the other hand, they can also attempt to add said spells to their spellbook if they do not have one.
That Magical trap Hallway... would be expensive for you if a guy in town was an untinker, he'd get curious. >.>

[Welknair]

Sounds like an interesting character! Now that I think of it, he would do very well in this type of world. In fact, he would only really thrive in this type of environment. There would be shiny magic things everywhere for him to absorb. Man, story concept of a group of Untinkers living in a futuristic setting, being pursued by the Wizard rulers...

[Ralasha]

Umm, sure, as long as the Untinkers aren't all class level 10... that should work. Otherwise they can untinker Spells. >.>

[Welknair]

Well those would be the leaders of the group, the few capable of directly combating the Wizards on their own terms.

What do you think of the system posted thusfar?

Oh, and I'm not sure about the Knowledge (Magitech) skill. I can't decide whether to make it Knowledge, Craft, or give it it's own skill. Encompassed in it is the ability to comprehend tapestry systems as well as reconfiguring parts and the like. That alone is an amalgam of the two. Either way, I want it to be an Int skill. If I were to make it a skill of it's own, I'd have to make a note that it would be added to the Wizard skill list...

[3SecondCultist]

I personally enjoy reading this system a lot. I have been stuck in a rut, trying to think up a way for the pre-deity, Forerunner ancestor race to have some crunch behind it, other than just, "the platform which activates a genetic protocol that fires a massive WMD". However, I would probably convert it to psionics, as in my setting it predates magic. :smallwink:

Just have the batteries fed by power points rather than spell power, and the Tapestries use powers rather tan spells. As for the spells you made up, those can easily be converted into psionics. WotC did it in 3.5, I can do it here! :smallbiggrin:

If, as you said at the beginning of this thread, you wish to keep this Magitech inside a small continent or island, than it is not worth having its own skill. UMD will still work here, I think.

[Ralasha]

If psionics/magic is not full transparency: UMD will not work.

In other news: Would you like the Untinker Posted here, or in a separate thread?

I think the system thus far is slightly flawed. It would be far simpler to use Circle Magic transmutation to create the hulls from other materials. Say, oh look, a mountain. *Transmutes stone to mud for a specific shape, then transmutes mud to water, continues until the hull is hollow. Then Transmutes a specific thickness into the Material desired for the hull. The transmutes Rock to mud around it. Circle Magic to lift it up, levitate it onto a suspension system built and hold it while the rest of the work is completed. Done, at less cost. (If you wanted something like... mithril. Another thing one of my characters that ended up doing after taking over an entire nation: Have mages bind elementals. Earth elementals gather Ore. Fire Elementals Smelt it. Water Elementals cool it. Air elementals lift the peices into place. Fire elementals melt them together. I built a wall 2000 feet tall, and 200' thick at the top, 600' thick at the base, like that. Then I manned it with giants, and dragons. Welcome to my optimized Kingdom. If we don't have it, no one wants it.

[tzaan]

about the skills - why not have two? A knowledge and a Craft. Then you'd have synergy bonuses and could use them to describe the difference between an intuitive engineering genius and a book-learned Magitech Uni graduate (ie Kaylee from Firefly vs a military pilot)

just a thought
oh and the Eberron campaign books can be picked up 'cheaply' wink wink nudge nudge

[Ralasha]

I actually think a Craft Skill would cover it fine, since a craft skill already takes knowledge of the mechanics of the thing (or things) for that craft into account. Especially since Knowledge Skills are intended to be used over a braoder range of usage. Such as Knowledge Arcana or Religion, or Geology, or Anatomy. Each of which cover a series of topics. Yours would cover 1. You could however have Knowledge: Mechanics. Which would take into account: Constructs, Machines, Mechanical or magical devices, that perform functions through the movement of parts, or manipulation of the properties of their parts. Such as your tapestries.

[Welknair]

So was your statement about it being "flawed" directed at the system as a whole? Because it seemed like it was just at the Hull cost. And in truth, I had been considering that myself. There must have been something more efficient than just making it bit by bit. And yes, my current designs account for an entirely Mithral hull. If it were not Mithral, it would go much slower. Still, between Fabricate, True Creation, and some Epic Magic you should be able to accomplish this without such menial labor.

As for the skill. I don't think it should be Craft, as that would allow Fighters to be understanding magic circuit design. And as stated, Knowledge wouldn't work quite as well as it's a relatively narrow band of knowledge, yet not really encompassed in any existing group. As such, I think a custom skill would be the solution. A single rank would be required to man any craft powered by the system (One rank would give you a "This button is go" knowledge. Enough for your fighter to steer the relatively intuitive mech suit etc.). And then I would use the aforementioned numbers and abilities.

I'd love to see the Untinker here, though I'd also advise you to post it on its own. The first because it would work remarkably well with this system, the second because it deserves to be discussed and the like without detracting from the main subject.
Edit: On second thought, I'd suggest posting it in it's own thread, then I can link to it in the second post, right next to the Magitechnician.

And as mentioned, this system could easily be adapted to Psionics. In fact, Psionics makes more sense than magic does. And we already have a point system!

[Ralasha]

In that case, Untinker will work... not so well. It's mechanics are based entirely around magic. It would have to be entirely retooled and reconfigured. I might also point out. Its Magi-Tech, not Psy-Tech. Of course, if accuracy is no longer an issue... go for it. I might also point out there is a point system for magic as well in Unearthed Arcana. Also, anything that can be done with Psionics can be done with magic. It would merely require a few new spells.

*On a side note: Psionics and Magic working together would probably work quite well. Also, you could just name the skill: Magi-Tech. In which case you would be able to decide which classes specifically are capable of using it.

**On another note: Either way, with my Untinker... I'm going to have to remake it. As all my data was lost a few days ago, due to a rather nasty virus. It should be in one of my next few posts.

Look at these they'll give you some diea of the concepts around which I make classes. Though these are generally far more powerful than my standard stuff, like the Untinker.[spoiler]
This one may fit into your world if toned down. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182669)
This one is similar to an archmage of Wild Mages (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182379)
Beefed up Core Classes, so that they are actually capable of competing with the other stuff that's out now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183027)
An Alternative to the Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182661).
A group of classes that should actually fit right into a FF type setting. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183078)

[Welknair]

When I say that this could be easily converted to psionics and that psionics could account for some things easier than magic could, I don't mean to say that I intend to do that. The system was made for magic and I'm keeping it that way. However Psionics-lovers are free to tweak as they please.

Sorry about the virus. Hope you remake it soon.

On a side note: Ranger, dual wielding Scorching Ray Guns. Win.

[Ralasha]

On a Side note: Gnome: Gnomish Tinker, Untinker: Win vs ranger.

See previous post.
The Untinker
Requirements:
Able to cast 3rd level Arcane spells.
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item
Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 8 Ranks, At least 1 craft skill: 8 ranks.

Class Skills: As qualifying class.
Hit Dice: D6
{table] Lvl | BAB| FS| RS| WS| Special | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Analyze Dewomer | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Extract Magic | 4 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Extract Experience | 5 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
4 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Memorize Dewomer | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Catch Magic | 6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Difuse Dewomer | 6 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0
7 | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Difuse Magic | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0
8 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Analyze Spell | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0
9 | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Difuse Spell | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1
10 | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Master Untinker | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2
[/table]
Class Features:
Spells: The Untinker does not gain any more spells, but does gain spell slots as according to the following table. The Untinker continues to gain Caster Levels equal to 1/2 its Untinker Level.
Analyze Dewomer: The Untinker may make a spellcraft check versus the DC of the spell, as cast by the cast who crafted the item. Alternatively, an untinker may analyze the remains of magic left behind by another source. This is managed in a similar manner, and reveals the school, and what type of spell it is (damaging, buff, aura, etc.).
Extract Magic: The Untinker may now attempt to remove the magical essence from an item. Doing so destroys the item, but refreshes a spell slot of equal level to the spell in the crafting of the item untinkered with this ability.
Extract Experience: The Untinker may draw out 5% of the experience used in the crafting of a magical item per level of Untinker. This experience does not count towards levels, but instead resides in a pool for later use in the creation of magical items.
Memorize Dewomer: To use this ability the Untinker must make a caster level check versus the caster level of the creator of the item. Success means that the Untinker may add the spell used in the item's creation to its spells known for the making of an item, or to cast once, in either case, once the spell is used, it is gone.
Catch Magic: if the Untinker would be affected by a spell, or spell like ability, the Untinker may attempt to catch the spell. Doing so requires opposed Caster Level Checks. If it is an item, the Untinker Makes a Caster Level check against the item. Success means that the Untinker is unaffected and has refreshed an equivalent spell slot, alternatively, the untinker may attempt to return the spell to sender.
Difuse Dewomer: Some magic is harmful, or self resets. The Untinker may attempt to difuse any harmful magic in an item. This is done with an opposed Caster Level Check. Success means the enchantment is removed. Failure means that the Untinker is now afflicted by the harmful magic it was attempting to difuse.
Difuse Magic: In the case of magical traps, or harmful spell triggers, the Untinker may make an opposed Caster Level Check in an attempt to destroy the harmful magic. Success grants the Untinker 1 casting of that spell.
Analyze Spell: The Untinker may attempt to analyze a spell recreated by an item, or being cast by another caster. This is done with an Opposed Caster Level Check, and will identify the spell in question, and its appropriate counterspell.
Difuse Spell: The Untinker may make an opposed Caster Level Check in order to negate the spell being recreated, or cast. Success refreshes spell slots.
Master Untinker: The Master of magical essences. The Master Untinker may now make spellcraft checks in place of Caster Level Checks, though his opponent will still make Caster Level Checks Appropriately, if valid. In the case of counterspelling, success means his opponents spell, spell like ability, or magical item failed to function. It fizzled, all other normal effects of the spell having been successful continue. For all abilities of this class dependant upon Caster Level Checks, The Untinker may use Spellcraft. Appropriate Spell Slots are still used, if Valid.
Note: Each of these abilities may be used in reverse by the Untinker. Doing so expends the appropriate amount of XP and the appropriate spell to be infused.
Untinkers' are considered to have Arcane Sight starting at level 1.

[Welknair]

Ranger has high Spot. He'd blast the scoundrel before he got close enough to disassemble the guns.

I'll try to dump the rest of the system tomorrow.

[Ralasha]

Untinker is finished, see previous post. My point was, he doesn't need to disassemble the guns, he can disassemble the magic coming from the guns.

[Welknair]

I'd still assume that he'd be happy that so many more people are wielding that which he has power over. My system puts magic in the hands of anyone with enough gold.

One sec, reading...

Very cool! I could certainly see something along these lines running around in large cities. What class would normally lead into this? Sorcerer? (Spellthief would be an interesting and synergetic lead-in, though it lacks the spellcasting power usually required for prestiges at lower levels..)

[Ralasha]

I mean, sure, the ranger has two guns. that's ok. I just have to attempt to difuse both shots at the same time if we're lower level.

[Welknair]

Fast reply is fast?

Anyways, yeah. Hmmm... Quick draw?
Thought: Old-west style setting. With Scorching Ray Guns.
.
That reminds me. Cost. First, the personal utility droid was 40k, not 10k. Given standard numbers, lower level adventurers would be unable to afford this technology. That's actually not a bad thing in my case, as it is a lost technology right now and my party is mid level. However, for those wishing to do a full on sci-fi game, I'd advise making an interesting choice: Halve the price of all magic items. I'd assume by now our Wizards (and Magitechnicians) have learned new practices to more quickly and efficiently make our magic items. This simple change would make magic a lot easier to obtain. Hmm. On second thought, perhaps it would be better to just halve the costs for the magitech components? We don't want lower level characters running around with items who's power level dwarfs their own, we just want it to be a bit cheaper. Just halving the magitech would make that---

Ooh, I have an idea! What if we had pre-built designs (such as the Scorching Ray Gun, or the EMP bomb) that could be created in mass for lower cost, due to some external process, involving that the items' parts are already integrated into the mechanism as a whole. It would be as if you're crafting a single magic item! It could be said that if you have a schematic for a Magitech Design (a professional schematic, probably requiring some Magitech skill check) you could make the item as a whole for half the price, but it couldn't be disassembled for it's parts (if you tried to do so, you'd end up damaging it beyond Repair). Edit: And this could only be done for cheaper devices (With a base price of 20k or less).

[Ralasha]

I'm sorry, but halving the cost isn't going to make things easier to obtain if you tell them 'those are unavailable'. What are they going to buy at level 1? a Bottomless mug and Endless Rations, oh, how game breaking!

[Welknair]

I'm sorry, but halving the cost isn't going to make things easier to obtain if you tell them 'those are unavailable'. What are they going to buy at level 1? a Bottomless mug and Endless Rations, oh, how game breaking!

?? I threw out that idea. Re-read my prior post.


On second thought, perhaps it would be better to just halve the costs for the magitech components? We don't want lower level characters running around with items who's power level dwarfs their own...

I'm instead considering a more industrialized approach, as described in the following paragraph.

[Ralasha]

I was being sarcastic. The types of items low level characters can afford, even if the item costs are halves ofr magic, won't alot to anything that will cause them to be item reliant. What I do is I judge what level of items they should be able to handle, think of it as an emerging industry. Right now, there are only a few, more limited items available. As they gain levels, the industry improves, and more powerful items are available. In this way you end up with a balance, like the balance found in any FF game. Early items are weak.

[Welknair]

But by halving costs, don't you effectively double the price range of the characters, thus allowing them to obtain higher level items?

[3SecondCultist]

It would break the WBL guideline. I recommend keeping the costs where they are, if you are having this magitech being exclusive to a certain location or power group. You should make it all way cheaper within that boundary, to represent how common it really is there. :smalltongue:

That is one thing D&D does poorly, staying by basic economic guidelines. As it is, magic items have a set market price, which is ludicrous.

[Ralasha]

But by halving costs, don't you effectively double the price range of the characters, thus allowing them to obtain higher level items?

Not necessarily, all you really do is give them more spending money for buying lower level equipment. Here is how this works:
Magic available at Level 1: +1 enchantment, basic potions, scrolls, etc. Please note, that such methods do require DM regulation. I myself normally start the party out at 1st, with 3rd level gold, because otherwise it's too easy for them to die. Then I add a limit, say, Aside from standard or masterwork armors, no single item may exceed 900 of their starting gold in value. So, at first level they have 2,700 GP. but can only spend up to 900 on any one item. Aside from arms and armors. Since weapons generally don't cost that much, it isn't a problem.

[Welknair]

Hmm. The problem with reducing the cost in certain areas is how that works with the cost to make the item. The creators deserve the profit, so the only way to lower the market price would be by lowering the cost to create and time to create as well. This can still be accomplished within a certain area via the Schematic System which I described a bit prior. Items of 15k gp in value or less made of magitech components, containing a complete system (battery, tapestry, and at least one runestone/staff) may have a schematic for it made. This would require a Magitech check based upon the price and complexity of the device. When completed, the Schematic would allow it's construction as if it had half the cost, but the item is created as a whole instead of it's individual parts. If you try to salvage pieces from such a device, you need to make Swap Components roll at a +10 difficulty, where failure results in the ruin of the part. These schematics would only truly be available within the power area and as their knowledge would be closely guarded (Secret formula, much?).

As for Ralasha's monetary system, I find that a bit difficult to regulate. It's easy enough to enforce those guidelines when initially purchasing equipment, but when the players have money of their own, how do you prevent them from buying above their power level?

[Jack_Simth]

If Overload is a 5th level spell, most of the casters who can use it can also cast Teleport.

A Ring of Spell Storing, plus the Reach Spell metamagic feat, makes it quite useful in battle vs. Mechs.

Of course, you'll also want a Teleport prepped....

[Welknair]

That takes it up to a close range. Casting time of 10 minutes. You better hope they don't go leaving that range for 10 minutes. And even then, they may spot you trying to cast said spell. Most suits will have a Detect Magic feature, or even Arcane Sight to spot such dangers.

Oh, and Mechs and Skyships are now up. Skills and the PrC are to come.

[Jack_Simth]

That takes it up to a close range. Casting time of 10 minutes. You better hope they don't go leaving that range for 10 minutes.
That's what the Ring of Spell Storing (OK, Greater Ring of Spell Storing... unless you've got metamagic reducers) is for.

See, the Ring of Spell Storing is a command-word item, which makes it a standard action.

You cast the Reach version of the spell into the ring at home, the day before, taking the full ten minutes to do so.

Once at the battle site, it's a standard action to cast the spell from the ring. Then you have two rounds to cast Teleport to get out of range.
And even then, they may spot you trying to cast said spell. Most suits will have a Detect Magic feature, or even Arcane Sight to spot such dangers.
Have fun interrupting the stealthed-in standard action casting time. And if the mech runs away from the simple possibility? Well, then I've won the battle just by being prepared for it, without actually expending many resources, now haven't I?

[Welknair]

Wouldn't you still need line of sight/effect? No self-respecting magitechnician is going to leave the battery exposed... Though I'm sure there are ways around that problem, it wouldn't be quite so easy.

[Jack_Simth]

Wouldn't you still need line of sight/effect? No self-respecting magitechnician is going to leave the battery exposed... Though I'm sure there are ways around that problem, it wouldn't be quite so easy.Yes and no.

See, you're attached to your equipment by the rules of D&D. If you have a spell that specifically targets objects (such as Shatter), you need Line of Effect and Line of Sight... to the wielder. If you have line of effect and line of sight to the wielder, by D&D approximations, you also have line of effect and line of sight to the item.

Besides:
He's going to have his net running through connected to basically everything, especially the battery to power everything.

And the net duplicates spell effects to everything it touches. And it has to touch the battery. And it has to touch everything he's powering with it.

[Welknair]

Wouldn't the suit be a full suit? As in no line of effect to the wielder either? As for the network channeling the Overload effect... Wouldn't the Tapestry not be a valid target as only spells capable of being cast on any object (such as Light) can be cast through it? Wait, I need to re-read that section. And also the Tapestry would hopefully not be so exposed... One second.

Edit: Huh. Despite the origin of the idea, I don't seem to have rules for Tapestries channeling spells to affect multiple objects! Is the ironic, or what? I guess that's one more thing to add... But I don't think that Overload could be cast into it. Devious idea though.

What if you could go ethereal and apply Transdimensional Spell to it, instead of Reach? That would be allowed, as long as you kept floating near enough to the target...

Nitpicking aside, what do you actually think of the system, Jack? I admit that it needs some refinement, but do you think it has merit/potential?

[Jack_Simth]

Wouldn't the suit be a full suit? As in no line of effect to the wielder either?
So's a suit of fullplate. Yet nobody blinks when that Wizard casts Ray of Enfeeblement on the caster through the fullplate. And nobody blinks when the fullplate isn't damaged after the Black Dragon hits the Fighter in fullplate for 50 points of acid damage with a breath weapon.


Nitpicking aside, what do you actually think of the system, Jack? I admit that it needs some refinement, but do you think it has merit/potential?
Well, in general, there's simpler ways to do things.

A battery costs 1,000 per charge stored. A charge is a spell level.

So to store six spell levels, you have a 6,000 gp unit. OK.

To make it do anything, you need to hook up a Runestone - which can cast a given spell X times per day if it has a battery attached. OK. It's limited to 3/day/stone. OK. I'm a little unclear of the intent of the equation: "Spell level X Spell Level X (400-(100/each time usable per day below 3))" - so... for a 2nd level spell, usable 3 times per day, that'd be, what: 2*2*(400-(100/0))? That doesn't work out... assuming the intent was something like 2*2*400 for such a case, that'd be 1,600 gp for the stone.

So for 7,600 gp, we've got a 3/day Scorching Ray (or Glitterdust, or...), that needs to be specifically recharged to work.

An Eternal Wand doesn't need to be specifically charged, works 2/day, and costs 4,420 gp. One and one-half eternal wands (to be a 3 charge/day equivalent) would be 6,630 gp.

Let's try that again, using a 3rd level spell.
We use the same battery (6k).
We make a 2/day runestone: 3*3*(400-100), is I think the intent, = 2,700 gp.

So we charge the battery in the morning, and the runestown depelets it, firing twice, for 8,700 gp. The Eternal wand costs 10,900. We've got a slight cost savings.

Let's try that again, using a 1st level spell.

We use a cheaper battery (2 charges, 2k)
We make a 2/day runestone: 1*1*(400-100), is I think the intent, = 300 gp.
Total: 2,300 gp.
The cost of an Eternal Wand of a 1st level spell is 820 gp. And it doesn't need to be specifically charged up.

So for 1st and 2nd level spell effects, there's little-to-no point - Eternal Wands are cheaper. For 3rd level spell effects, there's a slight cost savings - barely - with the big cost being that you need to be able to fill the battery somehow. If you're stuck charging it with 1st level Eternal wands, you'll need three wands to power that two-use stone: 820*3=2460... making the total exceed our cost savings by 260 gp. So even with 3rd level spells, you're better off with an Eternal Wand. Your costs need to be reworked. Even if you do rework this aspect, though, to be balanced (cost-wise) against other options, then you've got the problem that you just made a highly complex system to do stuff that can readily be done by less complex methods.

If you let it bypass the action cost of spells (e.g., taking iterative attacks with the aforementioned ray gun), then you've just enabled nova builds, which have a habit of wrecking game balance.

Battery+Runestone is a very tricky idea to salvage.

Oh yes, and you don't appear to have specified caster level or save DC, but I could just be missing it.

The net bit, making multiple items count as one for the purpose of spells cast on it is... somewhat lackluster. An object is poorly defined in D&D to begin with (Shrink Item references a fire and it's fuel as a valid target... which is generally going to be multiple loose logs, for instance).

For the most part, it makes interesting background fluff, but unless other options were not available, I'd only very rarely be bother working with it as a crunchy system.

[Welknair]

This is the type of feedback I'm looking for!

You are correct, the eternal wand will be cheaper and much simpler. BUT! Can other people use it without large amounts of UMD? I think NOT! This technology, while expensive, allows the power of spells to be put in the hands of many non-spellcasters that could very much benefit from it.

And yeah, the formula for runestone cost was a bit off. It's the same as for Runestaves, except without the possibility for multiple spells. That "/each use below three" was meant to be read as "Per each use below three", not "Divided by each use below three". I should clarify that...

Anyways, so we're talking about a basic Scorching Ray gun, versus an eternal wand, correct? The Gun would cost something on the order of 8,000 for a one-shot (as far as charge goes), but more likely you'd be buying a 2-shot for 10,000. Well 10k for two uses of Scorching Ray? LAME. Well, it is rechargeable and given most spellcasters have a few leftover spells... And more importantly: Schematics. I have yet to post the Magitech skill, but it'll allow a Schematic of small and relatively cheap items to be made. If you're going off of a Schematic, the price is halved. 5k for one of the puppies? Sign me up! This allows characters closer to the 6-8 range to be able to afford this type of technology without completely forgoing all other gear.

As for the ability to transmit a spell effect to various objects... Well, as you know, I just wrote the rules for that. It was the source of inspiration and deserved inclusion, but really isn't the point of the system anymore. However, I could see hilarity by having a sneaky caster climb aboard an enemy cruiser and cast Light into their system, temporarily blinding the crew, buying time for the attacking force to Dispel the weapons systems. But that's about the only real use. It's more of an "unintended side effect"

[Ralasha]

As for Ralasha's monetary system, I find that a bit difficult to regulate. It's easy enough to enforce those guidelines when initially purchasing equipment, but when the players have money of their own, how do you prevent them from buying above their power level?

By not allowing them to buy those items. Simply saying 'you cannot find anyone selling those items' is enough.

[Jack_Simth]

This is the type of feedback I'm looking for!

You are correct, the eternal wand will be cheaper and much simpler. BUT! Can other people use it without large amounts of UMD? I think NOT! This technology, while expensive, allows the power of spells to be put in the hands of many non-spellcasters that could very much benefit from it.Well, it takes some training (one feat - although it's regional... which makes sense), but yes, anyone with the right training can do so. The requirement for using an Eternal Wand is 'cast arcane spells' - which is fairly simple to arrange.

And it's a DC 21 UMD check. While not trivial, it doesn't specifically require large amounts of UMD.

Of course, to *really* use the batteries, you either need to be able to cast spells of the type in the runestone (so you can charge the battery), or you need to know someone who'll do it for you. Which is very close to the same thing, really.

OK, they help a bit with efficiency, as you can burn your 1st level spell slots to generate 2nd or 3rd level spell effects... (oh, and you might want to take a look at the Versatile Spellcaster feat), but it's also expensive enough that by the time you can afford the items, you're high enough that it's not usually going to be an issue to simply cast the spells yourself anyway.

And yeah, the formula for runestone cost was a bit off. It's the same as for Runestaves, except without the possibility for multiple spells. That "/each use below three" was meant to be read as "Per each use below three", not "Divided by each use below three". I should clarify that...
Spell Level * Spell Level * (400 GP - (100 GP * (3-uses per day)))?

Although the general formula for most D&D effects is spell level * caster level * [something]. You're currently leaving the caster level and save DC for the stones undefined... although I may have missed an update.

Anyways, so we're talking about a basic Scorching Ray gun, versus an eternal wand, correct? The Gun would cost something on the order of 8,000 for a one-shot (as far as charge goes), but more likely you'd be buying a 2-shot for 10,000. Well 10k for two uses of Scorching Ray? LAME. Well, it is rechargeable and given most spellcasters have a few leftover spells...Not everyone is happy to dump their spellcasting ability into another player's combat prowess. And not all parties fully trust each other. So you're going to be spending X,000 gp on something you can use one to three times per day, that you might not be able to use at all if the party caster isn't feeling charitable, or that you might not be able to use at all if the party caster ends up being a different type of caster than you expected (arcane vs. divine).
And more importantly: Schematics. I have yet to post the Magitech skill, but it'll allow a Schematic of small and relatively cheap items to be made. If you're going off of a Schematic, the price is halved. 5k for one of the puppies? Sign me up! This allows characters closer to the 6-8 range to be able to afford this type of technology without completely forgoing all other gear.

Doesn't change the basic problems, though.


As for the ability to transmit a spell effect to various objects... Well, as you know, I just wrote the rules for that. It was the source of inspiration and deserved inclusion, but really isn't the point of the system anymore. However, I could see hilarity by having a sneaky caster climb aboard an enemy cruiser and cast Light into their system, temporarily blinding the crew, buying time for the attacking force to Dispel the weapons systems. But that's about the only real use. It's more of an "unintended side effect"Don't use Light. Use Dispel Magic (turn the ship off), Disintegrate (destroy the ship), or some other directly-applicable effect.

[Ralasha]

if its mithril... use heat metal, kill everyone aboard, then just take it.

[Welknair]

It's interesting how the Versatile Spellcaster idea conflicts with the Rod of Absorption Property...

The formula being used for the stones is the same as that for the runestaff, found in the Magic Item Compendium.

Search around a bit, in an update I added info as to the CL and DCs. Namely, both are based upon the power tapestry feeding the runestaff/stone. CL is that of the Tapestry and the DC is the "minimum" (10+Spell level+Spell level/2, for a second level spell being 10+2+1=13).

Well, if we're assuming that these devices exist in a world (or island nation) where this type of technology is everywhere, I'd assume that that wouldn't be the case. There would be feed-outs of the main network numerous places, as a power grid. I could imagine shops that paid for such a connection charging customers for access to it, as they in turn charge their various devices. And some people would rather spend gp than skill points.

And it doesn't take much (about another 5k using a schematic) to add a recharger onto this thing and ditch your caster.

Versatility is also notable. You could have a small hand-held device with Detect Magic, Undead, Secret Doors, Creatures, and possibly Poison, and have them all fed by the same battery. If nothing else it's a way to use up those extra spell slots. "Roll over" spell slots seem like a very powerful idea to me...

Disintigrate is 7th, this type of device can't transmit the effects of a spells greater than 3rd. And Dispelling a Tapestry is a common tactic. Given the way targeting these things work, you can Dispel parts from outside the vessel, often paralyzing at least parts of the ship's functions if it's large enough, or turning the thing off completely for smaller things. Heat metal would be a good one! OWW OWW OWW. Though it would only effect the objects directly linked to the network, though this would admittedly include turrets and control panels, which generally are occupied...

So Jack, I'm trying to figure something out. Are you:
A. Bored and you found this thread
B. Interested, but think it needs various fixes
C. Just critical

[Ralasha]

"Something, something, something, complete!"
Or something...
You cast ray of disintegration, I catch it, analyze it, add it to my spell book, and return to sender. Good day to you sir!
My... experience, has been that most people are just overly critical.

[Welknair]

"2 points for the little one!"
"Okay, okay..." *Aims*
*Zwam* *put* "Put?"
*ZWAAM* +1 fried wizard.

[3SecondCultist]

There is another way to have a cruder version of magitech in a setting such as yours. Try using a base class somewhat like the Pathfinder Artificer (3rd Part class, but still), which just creates devices that emulate spells and work properly a certain amount of times per day. It is a decent class, and is worth thinking about if an outsider travels to this technological Shangri-La.

It's a good class to look at nonetheless. :smallsmile:

[Ralasha]

Indeed! Or... you could just use normal Artificers. >.>
Huh? One fried wizard? Who fried it, me?
*fries the one with the one just fried using the spell now memorized.* +2 fried wizard! ^^ It's enchanted!

[3SecondCultist]

Yeah, but personally I like the Pathfinder ones better, but I digress.

I like your ship design, but do you have any specific design models? If you are putting this in a setting, is there a particular type of ship design that you are fond of?

[Critical]

Actually, a bit toned down artificer probably IS the way to go. Giving the almighty wizards the ability to make extra-awesome items in addition to their own power just seems too much to me. :smalltongue:

[Welknair]

I came up with some new ideas that'll I'll post along with the rest.

And yes, I do have some designs made. Namely I've been working on the Tarrasque-Class Cruiser and the smaller Couatl-Class fighters that accompany it. However, I've just been hit by the idea to use the ability to have Tapestries convey spell effects to multiple objects to cut down on power costs for Thrust Disks. So I have some new clarifications for that system to post, but it'll allow much more power-effective travel.

Once I'm done outlining all of the rules and systems, I intend to post various devices, mechs, and ships that I've devised.

As for this system adding to the power of wizards... These are all spells that wizards cast anyways. Except now they're only usable 3/day and cost a deal. This isn't giving wizards power... it's taking it. This allows powers that had formerly been "Wizard Only" to be available to other classes for a bit of GP. Now instead of being the "Almighty Wizard" he's the "Nerdy dude who fixes my gun". I actually like it. :smallbiggrin:

Rest of the rules and the "Thrust Net" (Replacing the Disks) to be posted this afternoon.

[Ralasha]

>.> Buh? What? huh? (Just making it possible for you to post again. consider it a friendly bump.

[Welknair]

Why thank you. :smallbiggrin:

I am mid-way through making my changes. I'd advise you to check out the general info on Tapestries again, as well as the section on Create Thrust.

[Jack_Simth]

It's interesting how the Versatile Spellcaster idea conflicts with the Rod of Absorption Property...

The formula being used for the stones is the same as that for the runestaff, found in the Magic Item Compendium.

Search around a bit, in an update I added info as to the CL and DCs. Namely, both are based upon the power tapestry feeding the runestaff/stone. CL is that of the Tapestry and the DC is the "minimum" (10+Spell level+Spell level/2, for a second level spell being 10+2+1=13).

Well, if we're assuming that these devices exist in a world (or island nation) where this type of technology is everywhere, I'd assume that that wouldn't be the case. There would be feed-outs of the main network numerous places, as a power grid. I could imagine shops that paid for such a connection charging customers for access to it, as they in turn charge their various devices. And some people would rather spend gp than skill points.

And it doesn't take much (about another 5k using a schematic) to add a recharger onto this thing and ditch your caster.

Versatility is also notable. You could have a small hand-held device with Detect Magic, Undead, Secret Doors, Creatures, and possibly Poison, and have them all fed by the same battery. If nothing else it's a way to use up those extra spell slots. "Roll over" spell slots seem like a very powerful idea to me...

Disintigrate is 7th, this type of device can't transmit the effects of a spells greater than 3rd. And Dispelling a Tapestry is a common tactic. Given the way targeting these things work, you can Dispel parts from outside the vessel, often paralyzing at least parts of the ship's functions if it's large enough, or turning the thing off completely for smaller things. Heat metal would be a good one! OWW OWW OWW. Though it would only effect the objects directly linked to the network, though this would admittedly include turrets and control panels, which generally are occupied...

So Jack, I'm trying to figure something out. Are you:
A. Bored and you found this thread
B. Interested, but think it needs various fixes
C. Just critical
A little of all three. It's still useful, though. If you're looking at something that's intended for use in an actual game, you'll want to keep it something that's reasonably balanced vs. other options - and pointing out existing ways to do comperable things, then comparing to those comperable things, will help you hone the balance point, to something that's "Hmm, decisions, decisions..." when a player is looking at buying it (where you want, because that means it's reasonably balanced vs. other options), vs. "YES!! ME WANT!!!" which is usually overpowered or "Pfft, no" (which is usually underpowered).

Checking for things like: "OK, what's the save DC when a noncaster is using a box where the save DC and caster level is normally based on the caster?" (Runestones) help you avoid "Oh, wait..." style problems (which sometimes pop up in published works: I once ran across a monster that said those affected by a particular ability it had lose spell slots "randomly". It never defined a method for selecting them. Yet that'd come up the first time the critter saw play). Then there's also little things - for instance, the Golem Manuals specify that they provide a listing of specific things, and they also specify they don't supply a particular portion. There's a few items in the list of stuff needed for golems, however, that are not specified as provided, or not, in the golem manual item description (specifically, the 'magic item crafting supplies' that are a hefty cost). Some DM's will go one way on those, others will go the other direction. But such stuff is only found by picking nits.



Hmm... so in summary, the actual caster is usually going to be better served by simply getting an appropriate runestaff, the noncaster is usually going to be well served by getting a few stones to swap out, a decent battery, and a recharge method. Hmm.

[Welknair]

A very sensible answer, and the type of thing I like :smallbiggrin:. You are quite correct and I appreciate your nitpicking as it has caused me to critically analyze this system from an objective stand point. It'll of course need further refinements and I haven't actually tested any of this.

And yes, that is the idea I'm going for. This technology was made to put the power of Wizards in the hands of other, less squishy, individuals. The Wizard is probably going to do better to just stick with his magic, while the previously mentioned Ranger is going to literally have a "Blast" with the tech. Or at least that's what I'm going for.

[Ralasha]

The only problem with that is: the Wizards, a majority of them, will be unwilling. Since they will not want to share their power, thereby making themselves obsolete. Instead you could use outsiders. Elementals, Celestials and such, bound to items as their source of power.

[Welknair]

"Hey, if it means I don't have to go out where things are dangerous, and still get paid, I'm all for it!"

They could conserve their valuable Wizard resources by using Wizard Substitutes that are capable of using this technology.

[Ralasha]

They could conserve their valuable wizard resources by spending all of their Experience, and doing nothing to get any more, until finally in the end, there are no more wizards... yes... brilliant, if I do say so myself.

[Welknair]

Well, the Wizards would likely captain a Skyship and there would likely be one nearby a group of Mech Soldiers (Close enough for EXP, anyways). The Wizards would simply be bolstering their less-magically-gifted colleagues as to improve their ability to act as a meat shield.

[Ralasha]

I can show you a wizard capable of tanking if you would like. It doesn't use any classes but wizard. >.>

[Welknair]

Yes, yes, I know it's quite possible. But most wizards don't like that kind of thing. There are the crazy ones that always prepare Tenser's Transformation...

[Ralasha]

Nope. I just use still spell. Oh look, What Arcane Spell Failure from Fullplate?

[Welknair]

So you're acting as if you're two levels lower than you are? (In terms of spells and levels). I guess it works... Or couldn't you get Mithral Armor enchanted with Twilight? Or couldn't you let the Fighter do his job? He doesn't get much, you should at least give him that.

[Ralasha]

Meh, oh no... I cast spells at +1 spell level, in exchange, I get to walk into a battle and go *negative energy burst*. Or *Corona* or Nestyls Acid Sheath+stoneskin+fireshield, and let them kill themselves hitting me.

[3SecondCultist]

... come on here people, you've got to be fair to the little guy. As for wizards captaining ships, I wouldn't recommend it. If you are making the magic closer to technology, then the wizard would equate to something more along the lines of the chief mechanical officer. You would need more Charisma to be a good captain. Rogues and Dashing Swordsmen make good captains. :smallwink:

[Ralasha]

That's why they call me 'Bad Company'. *head bangs*

[Welknair]

"But the Paladin's an idiot!"
"Go back to Engineering!"
"Yes sir...."

Skills and Prestige are up! I'll probably post some devices and ships I've come up with later.

[Ralasha]

This is why you use my Paladin variant: The Templar of Steel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10119844). They aren't retards.

[Welknair]

Hmm. I can make about 90% of Star Trek. Problem is our Transporter goes with the away team... I guess we can program it to come back on it's own...

[3SecondCultist]

Wait, you can has black holes? How?

[Ralasha]

Sphere of Annihilation + inwards pull.

[Welknair]

Where did you think the waste went? If we're making spaceships, of course we can make basic artifacts...

Actually, the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction Spell would work nicely, if you could enlarge the range enough such to get it into the middle of a planet.

[Ralasha]

You need Annihilation Cannons! You know, Point Singularity Weapons.

[3SecondCultist]

Yeah, but a Sphere of Annihilation is three feet in diameter. A black hole is enormous.

Edit: What is Sphere of Ultimate Destruction?

[Ralasha]

Not the singularity itself. Which is infinitely small according to current scientific hypothesis.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm... possible problem:
Nova.

You explicitly allow the method to set off more than one Stone at a time.

So I'm a Sorcerer, and I get a CL 9 Tapestry (9,000 - 15 ends; one "in", 14 "out", if I'm reading this right), as many Runestones of Magic Missile as I can afford that will fit (14 of them at 3/day would be... what, 5,600?), and a battery sufficient to set them off (14 charges, 14,000), and a simple switch (10 gp) between the battery and the rest of the Tapestry. 28610 gp for the set - about WBL for a character a little over 8th level.

What do I do with it?

I cast 14 levels worth of spells into it (charge the battery). I point it at someone, and set it off as a standard action.

Target soaks 70 missiles, each dealing 1d4+1 Force damage. That's an average of 245 points of damage dealt. I can do this three times per day, before digging in to bonus spell slots, if I'm a Sorc-8.

Of the CR-10 SRD monsters:
A Colossal Animated Object will have (on average), 11 HP remaining.
A Young Adult Brass Dragon will be dead (despite SR).
A Couatl will be VERY dead.
An 11-headed Hydra will be dead about twice over. Forget about the 9-headed Pyro and Cryo hydras.
The Bebilith will be dead.
A Formian Myrmarch has enough SR to probably survive (on average, takes 1/4 of the normal average damage - 61.25 damage, vs. 102 HP).
A Fire Giant is dead.
A Clay Golem is untouched (magic Immunity)
A Gargantuan Monstrous Scorpion is dead.
A Guardian Naga is dead.
A Rakshasa has enough SR to probably survive (on average, takes 15% of the normal average damage - 36.75 damage, vs. 52 hp)
A Juvenile Red Dragon is dead.
A Noble Salamander is dead.
A Juvenile Silver Dragon is dead.
An Adult White Dragon has a chance of survival (on average, takes 60% of the normal average damage - 147 damage, vs. 189 hp)

So a character just a little past 8th is taking down 12 of 17 standard CR 10 critters. On his own, in one standard action, if he can get a turn, three times per day. And most of the ones that survive will be thinking of retreating.

I may have detected a problem.

[3SecondCultist]

... Shield.

[Welknair]

Indeed you have. I'll need to contemplate how to fix that... Any suggestions, besides simply saying that each Tapestry can only channel to one object at a time?

...And I got Ninja'd. Same idea could work to a lesser extent with any number of variations.

[Welknair]

Sphere of Ultimate Destruction is included in the Spell Compendium.

I guess I'll make an addendum saying "One spell at a time". It makes sense given my previous clause on concentration...

That reminds me, should I make it so that you can "Disturb" the concentration of a Tapestry Construct?

Edit: Fixed. Now that's still possible, you just need a separate Tapestry for each stone. Given cost, that should make this a quite ineffective strategy.

[Jack_Simth]

... Shield.
OK, so I use Lesser Orb of Force, instead, and worry about touch AC rather than SR. No big deal. Magic Missile was just picked as being almost universally applicable, and easy to calculate averages with. It's not really 'da bomb' of a spell, it's just easy to use for running numbers, and illustrates the point fairly well.

Besides: Shield is a personal-only spell, and most of the critters at CR 10 can't cast it. And it's a short enough duration, by default, that most critters won't bother unless they've got advanced intel on you.

Edit: Fixed. Now that's still possible, you just need a separate Tapestry for each stone. Given cost, that should make this a quite ineffective strategy.That does a couple of things:
1) It changes what level you can pull it off.
2) It makes mecha and ships harder to build and pilot.

What about making runestones command-word items? That is, they've got a built-in switch, and only work when specifically commanded... if they've got energy available. Command-word items can't be triggered with the same command-word (it's not just the word itself, as evidenced by it being a standard action to activate such, even though talking is a free action - there's some tricky mental direction, as well).

This makes the Sorcerer's Death Staff impossible, but still permits ships and mecha (they just need multiple pilots - you have a gunner at each gun).

[Welknair]

Hmm. Replacement idea: So you're suggesting using the same power network to cast... 14 spells, originating within a few inches of one another, at the same time? Can you say "Magic Feedback"? When more than five spells powered by Tapestries (Not necessarily the same Tapestry) take place within five feet of one another, they cause Magic Feedback. Effectively the casting device is subject to an explosion as if a battery containing all of the expended spell levels had just blown. This of course can be useful under certain circumstances, but generally stops Nova builds while still allowing Skyships and Mechs to work pretty well. Note that this property does not interfere with the Multiplication Principle.

"Well what if I had the guns in the hands of my mech and had my arms spread wide when I used them?"

...

"Sure. Whatever."

I think it solves the problem, more or less. Thoughts?

[Ralasha]

"More like, then you'd look like a dork riding in an eight foot tall powered armor that's already more like 6 feet wide. So people are going to wonder why you are holding your arms apart."

[jojolagger]

Can you say "Magic Feedback"? When more than five spells powered by Tapestries (Not necessarily the same Tapestry) take place within five feet of one another, they cause Magic Feedback.

I think it solves the problem, more or less. Thoughts?

More or less, but I have an idea for an item that might side-step that. Give me some time to stat it.

Also, could you get runestones without a X/day limit? The point where cost for unlimited and X/day by DMG stuff is 5/day.

[Ralasha]

on the other hand, all it takes is someone really clever finding a way to make a remote triggered tapestry filled with fireball. Magic Feedback goes boom. Oh look, remote triggered bombs, just like in FF!

[Clepto]

I saw this thread a little while ago, and it caught my eye. It definitely sounds like a solid system, and definitely one I'd be interested in playing.

As an aside, has anyone referred you to the Iron Kingdoms books from Privateer Press? I kinda skimmed through the last couple pages, so I may have missed it if someone pointed it out.

Long story short, it's a D&D supplement, but it's basically a whole other game that uses D&D rules for most things. Major differences include: Healing is difficult, and can actually damage the healer. Things that deal with extra-dimensional spaces are extremely bad ideas. Some "high fantasy" aspects of D&D don't fit well with the theme. BUT!

It's basically steampunk. The whole game, which started as the D&D supplement and has now spawned TWO successful tabletop wargames (Warmachine and Hordes), functions on the idea that magic and technology have been blended into what is called mechanika. Magic items, even something with a lowly +1 bonus, are considered to be so rare that they are effectively artifacts. However, with the technology magic can be added to almost any item.

The crafting system for mechanika is fairly complex, but it works. They even have two base classes devoted to it. The Arcane Mechanik actually creates mechanika, and can do proper maintenance. The Bodger is like the MacGuyver class, he fixes something with duct tape, a screwdriver, some cursing, and liberal application of a hammer. Bodgers even have a class skill literally titled, "Toss a wrench at it".

They also have mecha, and magical batteries, but no airships.

Unfortunately, it's out of print, but you may be able to find a copy on the cheap from your FLGS, or Amazon or something.

I don't want to hijack the thread. You do have some brilliant ideas here. I'm just suggesting another reference for some stuff if you get stuck and need ideas. The IK stands well on its own, but it doesn't play well with standard D&D. Your system on the other hand, does, and it's very impressive indeed.

[jojolagger]

It's gonna take me a while to make the item, and it'll make better progress when I'm not lacking sleep. Be Back in a few several hours.

After that, some more reasonable items under this system.

Question: Can normal wands be connected to a battery to recharge it?

[Ralasha]

In other news... I want to play in a campaign using this now... need a completely different magical system in order to completely balance it out...
Something along the lines of Binders might work... learning spells through binding spirits.

[Welknair]

First of all, as far as the RC'd tapestry full of Fireball to make it go boom... Given that the explosion is the same size as a battery holding all of the expended spell levels, it'd be cheaper to just hook up a single device to cast Overload, cast it yourself before launch, OR you could technically hook up a Ring of Spell Storing (Greater) with an info line as to detonate almost instantly.

I'm sure that there are items that can bypass that, but I wasn't trying to make things impossible, just infeasible and ludicrous looking enough as to dissuade most PCs.

Of course normal wands can charge batteries! They're actually used as a backup power system, with a simple Diagnostics+Cognition core to check battery level and to stream reserve energy into the main battery when it's low (or empty). Remember the whole "Power Wants to Move" thing. You'll need some sort of trigger or the wand will constantly be trying to charge the battery (not necessarily a bad thing, but hey).

And very cool! I have never heard of IK, I'll try to take a look at it sometime. And I was actually thinking how this system can replace... pretty much any other magic item. Magic sword? Slap a Magic Weapon Runestone with a tiny battery on. Most mid level adventurers will have at least ONE Eternal wand for charging their gear and most cities will have outlets you can use. Most Wondrous Items can be replaced or even improved with this system. I've already said that this was before Fly was invented, so we're probably assuming no Carpets or Brooms of Flying, making Airship travel dominant.

As for other classes... Hm. It definitely could work. I don't actually have the Tome of Magic, though I've skimmed through a pdf of it for the gist. The system was made with wizards in mind, though I wouldn't let that stop you. As long as whatever class you give wizard spells gets about the same number of total spell levels at various checkpoints, it should work fine.

Also note, nowhere do I say that this is Arcane only. I actually made provisos for Divine Power Tapestries. Cleric spells just stink, except for healing. (Actually, when I was designing my Tarrasque-Class Cruiser, I became envious that Clerics had all of the SR spells)

As for the x/day limitation, that was gotten from the Runestaff which spawned the Runestone. The Runestaff cannot have any spell usable more than 3/day. Just slap an Extend feat onto your power tapestry and you should be decent. I managed to get my cruiser to fly for 30 hours on the 3 castings/day of Create Thrust. CONTINUOUS FLIGHT FTW.

A couple images to leave you with:
A ranger, dual wielding ray guns.
A Half Orc Barbarian. In a mech suit.
That Same Barbarian picking on the nerdy wizard as he fixes his suit.
A fighter who took Weapon Focus (Ray) as he mans a Ray Gatling Gun
A Druid beating a Wizard to death with a stick.
Spock was really an Elf the whole time.

Edit: Added another principle, and clarified Cure v Repair for Tapestry Constructs. And then I added an "Old Spells you Want to Remember" section. And then I added the "Classes" of mechs and skyship. When designing such, please note what class they fall under. And then, even after that, I decided to add a Principle based on the explosion deal, along with a section on how Magitech works with other magic items. And then because I was bored, I made a Lightsaber. Sorry for that.

[Welknair]

I cast Maximized Bump of Boredness!

[Elfstone]

I have read your system and like it very much, however there is a remarkably similar thread going on at the same time. Only this one deals more with mechs, only using the original dnd 3.5 system. I think you should check it out and see it your system could make these mechs work.
Mechs and original piloting system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182666)

[Welknair]

How have I not looked at this? *Disappears for a while to read*

[Ralasha]

How have I not looked at this? *Disappears for a while to read*

My first guess would be... very skillfully and stealthily?

[jojolagger]

I've given up on breaking this system. You can make powerful stuff, but It's so expensive to Nova it's inefficient.

[Welknair]

I've given up on breaking this system. You can make powerful stuff, but It's so expensive to Nova it's inefficient.

:smallbiggrin:

Not to mention you need to work around the Too Much is Bad Principle a bit, or you get a nice face-full of boom.

Edit: Gave you the ability to make a Reflex Save from an exploding Battery. Less instant-death. And then the Rogue blows up the 1000 charge battery powering a small city and somehow takes absolutely no damage. "What?" :smallconfused: "I got a 20"


Things I'm Thinking About:

Trying to decide whether or not I should add in the ability to disturb the concentration of a Tapestry.
Should I add a section on how counterspelling works with this system?
Should I lower the number of spells that cause the Too Much Is Bad Principle to activate?
Looking at the weights of the Batteries, it would be better to have more lower-cap batteries than a single high cap. I need to change the weights so getting a larger battery weighs less than getting multiple smalls. Hmmph.
Do "Affect" and "Affection" have linked etymologies?
Who would win, an Exalted Warstrider, or a Titan-Class Mech?


Re-jiggered battery caps and weights. Weight is now equal to the maximum capacity of that size. I still probably need to change the numbers around a bit.

[jojolagger]

Edit: Gave you the ability to make a Reflex Save from an exploding Battery. Less instant-death. And then the Rogue blows up the 1000 charge battery powering a small city and somehow takes absolutely no damage. "What?" :smallconfused: "I got a 20"


"How did you survive that!"
"I ducked."

Rouge, with a bag of holding, a high power battery, a greater spell storing ring.
for just 50,000, you can get 50d6 damage. (average 175)

[Welknair]

Once. And then it's gone. 175 once for 50,000 doesn't seem that game-breaking to me.

[jojolagger]

Once. And then it's gone. 175 once for 50,000 doesn't seem that game-breaking to me.

Consider a level 20 wizard with 14 CON would average 132 hp.
Any class with d4s would be 132. (14 con) Average of 38 charges to kill
Any class with d6s would be 153. (14 con) Average of 44 charges to kill
Any class with d8s would be 174. (14 con) Average of 50 charges to kill
Any class with d10s would be 215. (16 con) Average of 62 charges to kill
Any class with d12s would be 256. (18 con) Average of 74 charges to kill

d4 at 50 feet requires 47 to average a kill
d6 at 50 feet requires 53 to average a kill
d8 at 50 feet requires 59 to average a kill
d10 at 50 feet requires 70 to average a kill
d12 at 50 feet requires 85 to average a kill

Not truly game-breaking, but it has lots of raw power if used in innovative ways.
And that's not looking at multiple targets. The 38 load mage killer has a blast radius of 225 feet. The 85 load barbarian killer has a blast of 500 feet.
The max pre-epic one (750 load) averages 2625 damage, a 4275 foot blast radius, and can kill the above barbarian at just under 4000 feet (3945 to be exact).

[Welknair]

You could probably kill the same mage for a lot less with a nice dose of Black Lotus Extract. But yes, it could be used in innovative ways but is going to be expensive enough not to be the go-to option of the PCs.

[Welknair]

Fixed some remains of previous fixes to the Nova Problem and the Thrust Disks. Added info on casting spells while inside a mech as well as info for counterspelling Magitech Devices or using them to counterspell. Oh, and I reworked how an occupant's Str score affects that of their mech.

And good luck subtly getting the Colossal Battery to your target unnoticed. If you're at the point where you can afford to blow that much GP, chances are your enemy is smart enough to have Anticipate Teleport and other Abjurations to protect themselves. Or they could have an underground bunker or something.

Massive Damage should also be considered here. Most of these explosions will force a Fortitude for Massive Damage. A much smaller battery (one capable of doing the amount required for MD reliably) would be much easier to smuggle close to the target and detonate than a huge Colossal one. Then again, this is assuming you have a single target instead of bombing on oncoming army.

Hey, what if we shot these out of a catapult...

[jojolagger]

And good luck subtly getting the Colossal Battery to your target unnoticed.
Shrink item + bag of holding. A bag of holding can handle the 94 pounds, right? :smallwink:


If you're at the point where you can afford to blow that much GP, chances are your enemy is smart enough to have Anticipate Teleport and other Abjurations to protect themselves. Or they could have an underground bunker or something.
Anticipate Teleport doesn't transmit what's coming through, and since when is 50,000 gp to kill a level 20 wizard a bad deal? Not many Abjurations will help. and a underground bunker only delays the inevitable.


Massive Damage should also be considered here. Most of these explosions will force a Fortitude for Massive Damage. A much smaller battery (one capable of doing the amount required for MD reliably) would be much easier to smuggle close to the target and detonate than a huge Colossal one.
You'd need a 15 load for that, but you'd want several to get a failed save. Even if we assume 10 (50% to get a one), At that point it's way more effective to get a 150 load one (525 average damage, 875 foot blast radius)


Then again, this is assuming you have a single target instead of bombing on oncoming army.
A squad of level 10 fighters (average 90 hp) in a 8 by 2 formation need a 37 load to be a likely one-shot at a distance of 50 ft. I'm sure a catapult can handle throwing a 50 pound battery. Remember that a squad of level tens are the elite troops.

[Welknair]

For 50k you could probably hire another level 20 Wizard to duke it out, and sell tickets to earn the money back.

And the Overload spell was intended to allow the batteries to be used as weapons. But given their general cost and time to create, they can't be just used willy-nilly. They are a resource.

I'm sure that I've read abjurations somewhere that can protect against basic teleportation... Then again, you'd already need a decent description of the villain's place of residence (not that hard) and then you need to figure out how to escape once there. Any self-respecting wizard at this point should have at least one scroll of Dimensional Anchor or one prepared at all times to deal with pesky intruders. The 2-round delay is quite nice for this type of situation, but just pray to Fharlanghn that you get out in those two rounds.

I think the costs in conjunction with the risk involved balance the potential strength.


For non-assassination purposes, that's a whole lot of resources to blow on a single battle, but it is a valid weapon.


Edit: Are you suggesting that I either lower the damage output (perhaps to d4's) or create some sort of reliable defense against this? In theory SR or an Antimagic Field could both work...

[jojolagger]

For non-assassination purposes, that's a whole lot of resources to blow on a single battle, but it is a valid weapon.
It's a high profile weapon. Not to be used on the common soldier, but very good at dropping "important targets".


Edit: Are you suggesting that I either lower the damage output (perhaps to d4's) or create some sort of reliable defense against this? In theory SR or an Antimagic Field could both work...
Reliable defense would be nice. One of the magic items this has trouble mimicking is a cube of force, and something based of that that's compatible with this would be perfect.

[Welknair]

Hmm. So some sort of spell which explicitly protects from an exploding battery?
Or are you looking for me to try to re-create the majority of the Cube of Force's abilities for use with this system?





Contingency+Antimagic Field?

[jojolagger]

Hmm. So some sort of spell which explicitly protects from an exploding battery?
That would be nice, even it it limits the amount blocked based on CL


Or are you looking for me to try to re-create the majority of the Cube of Force's abilities for use with this system?
That was an example, but the above request could be based on the cube.


Contingency+Antimagic Field?
As usual, that's the back-up plan.

[Welknair]

So are we looking at a "Permanent, until discharged" duration, with the "Charge" being based on damage (or would-be damage) from explosions?

That's doable...

[jojolagger]

So are we looking at a "Permanent, until discharged" duration, with the "Charge" being based on damage (or would-be damage) from explosions?

That's doable...

that sums it up.
maybe not just shielding the target. (ie, effects a 10 ft. radius around the target when activated)

[Welknair]

I wasn't sure how to describe it, but the explosion generally obeys obstacles, with characters being able to duck behind large barriers to escape great harm.

I'll probably add some more stuff as to how exactly the explosion travels in relation to obstacles.

As for the spell, fifth level, abjuration, wards a radius of 10ft with a shimmering barrier that can absorb up to CL X 200 damage from an exploding battery or the Too Much Principle. This would of course be a great defense for Magitechnicians working on high-capacity constructs as well as a precaution for your level 20 Wizard. At X200 you'll likely be able to withstand a major detonation or several smaller ones as long as you're a decently high level. Now I just need a name... "Defensive Measures"? That doesn't seem right... "Overload Protector"?

And given that the protected area isn't a target but an area (albeit centered on a target) it's not sized up by the Imitation Principle, so these sorts of weapons could still do a deal of damage to larger craft while the Battery Rooms themselves may be able to absorb a deal of the damage of their battery going nuclear by having exactly this spell cast on those batteries. Not bad...

[jojolagger]

As for the spell, fifth level, abjuration, wards a radius of 10ft with a shimmering barrier that can absorb up to CL X 200 damage from an exploding battery or the Too Much Principle. This would of course be a great defense for Magitechnicians working on high-capacity constructs as well as a precaution for your level 20 Wizard. At X200 you'll likely be able to withstand a major detonation or several smaller ones as long as you're a decently high level. Now I just need a name... "Defensive Measures"? That doesn't seem right... "Overload Protector"?

X200 seems a bit much, at the first level you can cast it (9th), it would stop 1800 points of damage.
The most expensive pre-epic battery deals 2625 damage. by level 13 it's useless as a bomb.
I love the idea, but the amount of protection needs some tweaking.

[Welknair]

X200 seems a bit much, at the first level you can cast it (9th), it would stop 1800 points of damage.
The most expensive pre-epic battery deals 2625 damage. by level 13 it's useless as a bomb.
I love the idea, but the amount of protection needs some tweaking.

It deals 2625 on average. If you don't protect all of the damage, you're likely still screwed. At X100 you only get 2000 protection at 20th, and I doubt you have 625 HP to spare. I could always change the formula to be an exponential... CL X CL X 10? 810 to start, 4000 at CL 20. And keep in mind how situation this spell is. Only these magic explosions are blocked. And given the relatively low number of 9th level wizards in a given force, I wouldn't worry about it drastically affecting your ability to take out mobbed ground troops.

Still, we're boosting the ineffective point to somewhere between 16 and 17, with it not being able to scratch a full CL 20 version. I'm thinking "Costly Material Component". It's also worth noting that even at 16 and 17 there's about a %50 chance that it'll do over 2625, passing their shields and doing quite a deal of harm. Also note that if they're in a building at the time and the bomb doesn't detonate within 10ft of them, that they may have some problems involving the building falling on their faces.

Hm. If you cast this on a battery (as to contain it when it goes boom) and it proceeds to explode, but all of the explosion is absorbed by the spell, does the battery still break? :smallconfused:

I'm also thinking up ideas to allow ships to spend massive amounts of energy to cast Epic Spells. Just for teh lulz. ("Epic Runestone", being craftable after getting "Craft Epic Magitech", taking something on the order of ten spell levels per 1 Spellcraft DC. VENGEFUL GAZE OF GOD)

[The Winter King]

I have a couple questions regarding batteries.

1) What are batteries made of? I am assuming adamantine given the hardness.

2) The size and weights of batteries confound me. You show us a raygun with scorching ray but you would only get two shots out of a diminutive battery and larger batteries would be unweildy given these sizes
http://www.dnd-wiki.org wiki/Table:_Creature_Size_and_Scale_%283.5e_Other%29 (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Table:_Creature_Size_and_Scale_%283.5e_Other%29)

4) For Runestones could you get more uses/day by increasing the price according to Spell level x spell level x (400 +100 per use over 3?

5) If Yes to Q4 then what would be the price of an unlimited use runestone/staff?

6) Could there be a way to decrease the size of a battery by upping the cost by using some expensive material that better holds magic charge?

7) Can a battery be affected by shrink item normally without affecting the amount of charge it can hold, because that would solve size and weight issues

8) If the fly were discovered would it replace create thrust because it seems far more efficient?

9) How much charge would a wand restore? I assume its 1 wand charge = level of spell in wand, ditto for staffs.

10) For databanks how much is 1MB? it makes sense to use how much time it can record, like a CD and could one store spells in it? I dont mean the energy I mean similar to a wizards spellbook, you city could have the equivalent of an internet webpage with spells.

11) Could I hook a tapestry to a Spellweaver's (MM2) chromatic disk-basically an indestructible 6in disk that provides 10 spell levels per day?

12) Can multiple tapestries be linked?

Ok so I had more than a couple questions but I believe they are good ones. And Nice work this is so intresting:smallwink:

[Welknair]

FEEDBACK! Yes! First of all, I added Overload Protector and the Epic Runestones. The latter will almost certainly need some tweaking.

1. Batteries are primarily a sort of green crystal with an adamantine coating, with various sealing sigils carved on the exterior.
2. Yes, currently a handheld device cannot hold much. You would only get a few shots out of such a device, but you could buy a pricier model with an attached Eternal Wand that would instantly try to fill the battery once it was below full, effectively increasing the number of uses in addition to providing a source of recharge. This of course increases the cost of the device by quite a bit.
3. I'm invisible?
4. I'm hesitant to change the max uses/day. These are the numbers given in the Spell Compendium for Runestaves and I feel altering them could be exploited. Currently 3 shots for a single runestone isn't half bad, given that most turrets would have several that it cycles through.
5. If I were to make an unlimited one... I really don't know. The limit is there for a reason.
6. This isn't a bad idea. I was somewhat saddened by the limited number of building materials. It's Steel, Mithral, Adamantine, or nothing. I'm sure that I can make some sort of Arcane Catalyst...
7. The spell would affect the battery, but not the energy it contained. It would try to squeeze down on itself. I don't think Shrink Item works if you're shrinking a box that contains a mouse.
8. It would allow the spellcasters to fly, but not the fighters in their Mechs. Because Fly is transmutation, it can't be used on a Tapestry Construct and thus Create Thrust would still be used for primary propulsion. Taking out Fly just gives spellcasters a reason to use them as well.
9. Same as normal. Wand of Fireball with 50 charges could give a battery 150 charge. "Power Wants to Move" means it would try to do this on it's own if wired correctly. Wands are often used as cheap one-time reserve batteries.
10. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this earlier. It may be a good idea to reformat the Databanks...
11. Last I checked, a Tapestry isn't a Spell weaver. It would go boom. Not to mention it doesn't say that the disk creates the spells, it just stores them.

Keep the questions coming! This is very useful for working out kinks in the system, given that I haven't gotten a chance to test it properly.

Edit: Added Catalyst Batteries. :smallbiggrin:

[The Winter King]

Well for the MB problem I found this to figure out what a mb was if you are still using them http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/tek1/how_big.htm

[Welknair]

Added the link. So this seems, reasonable, with a relatively small device being capable of holding a deal of information at a price such that the upper class may actual use them instead of books. After having been enlightened, I think that my numbers are still more or less reasonable.

Edit: Added a "Fine" databank. Equivalent of a tiny chip.

[The Winter King]

Ok cool just some minor nitpicks, why are you scared of more uses per day on rune-stone/staves? I could hook up a wand to a tapestry and use it all I want with no limit except for available charge. I understand if its because you dont want casters to get their hands on "free spells known" but then we could say that they only work with a tapestry so it works as long as power flows into it. It makes sense based on what your basng them on but not on how it would work. Im seeing the energy like wax or cookie dough and the stones as a type of mold for the energy.

Also is there a way to retrieve data remotely? And by that I mean like WiFi for tapestries but only for databanks?

[Welknair]

I'll answer the second one first. Access attached to an info tapestry with the Databank, and Relay III. With a series of Relay III's, you can easily set up a telephone line, and don't forget Enlarge.

As for the latter, the system can activate normal wands, but cannot supply the actual charges.

Increasing the numbers of uses beyond 3 really takes away one of the only limits that this system has. As it is, most devices won't have the power to activate their systems more than 3 times, if it's an appropriately scaled system. Increasing the limit beyond three allows some idiot to hook up a Scorching Ray Gun to the giant Colossal Battery and just start zapping people for the next hundred rounds. That'd be a fun hundred rounds... The limit means that players need to conserve not only their actual energy, but the actual functions themselves.

[jojolagger]

Increasing the numbers of uses beyond 3 really takes away one of the only limits that this system has. As it is, most devices won't have the power to activate their systems more than 3 times, if it's an appropriately scaled system. Increasing the limit beyond three allows some idiot to hook up a Scorching Ray Gun to the giant Colossal Battery and just start zapping people for the next hundred rounds. That'd be a fun hundred rounds... The limit means that players need to conserve not only their actual energy, but the actual functions themselves.

It's spell level*spell level*(400-100*charges below 3) for cost.
Make it scale. For every charge above 3, it adds 100 more than the last
1 per day=lvl*lvl*200
2 per day=lvl*lvl*300
3 per day=lvl*lvl*400
4 per day=lvl*lvl*600
5 per day=lvl*lvl*900
6 per day=lvl*lvl*1300
7 per day=lvl*lvl*1800
8 per day=lvl*lvl*2400
9 per day=lvl*lvl*3100
10 per day=lvl*lvl*3900
A few extra charges are fine, but you can't get much more effectively. A Scorching ray that worked 10/day would be 15,600 just for the runestone.

[Welknair]

Yeah, I guess I could do that. I had considered it earlier, though I'm worried that there's something that the creators of the Magic Item Compendium thought of that I didn't... Adding it now.

Oh, and I added an image for the Magitechnician.

Edit: Added the improved capacity runestones/staves. I appear to be at exactly 50,000 characters. Crud. So now I either A) Stop adding stuff B) Move more stuff to the first post/kill the first post's origin stuff entirely or C) Make a new topic with more reserve posts. Hmmph.

Man, I just started having ideas for a core class for this, but there's NO ROOM. :smallmad:

[Welknair]

*Sigh*

I clarified Transit's use to boost Info signals as well as adding in the bit about disassembling Schematic Devices. Sadly, I had to cut out some witty banter to do so.

At this point, there isn't much more to add. Besides a few number tweaks, the system is about done. Of course I would love to detail a set of basic devices (Chargers, basic handheld weapons, sensor arrays, a few neat skyships and mechs, etc.) but I honestly can't fit them in the info section.

I wish they were still making 3.5e books. If I found a book containing this stuff, I would certainly want to buy it...


Edit: Been thinking over the Epic Runestone's pricing. Namely the fact that I recently learned most people make Epic Level Spells with a DC of 0, due to mitigations. I'm trying to figure out how to handle this as far as pricing and power needs go. Hmmph.

Edited again: Added some clarifications. You can no longer reduce the cost and power needs to nil.

[Welknair]

No more comments?

[radmelon]

Maybe some example creations would be nice. Other than that, this is pretty nice and polished.

[Welknair]

Maybe some example creations would be nice. Other than that, this is pretty nice and polished.

Why thank you!

I'm not sure where I would put said creations, as the post full of rules and whatnot is literally full. I didn't even know that was possible.

I guess I could post them here, and then link to this post in the first post... Or I could just put them in the first--


One of the interesting things of not having a full array of example devices is that it causes a DM interested in this system to make a relatively unique setting based upon what devices s/he deems have had schematics of them made.


Basic Devices that Should be Covered:

Universal Recharger (to be attached to various devices. Mainly an Eternal Wand or two attached to a tapestry with an Easy Swap "Out" for hook-up with various devices. See the next few posts.

Basic array of personal firearms (Scorching Ray Gun? They aren't that hard.)

Basic array of mechs and skyships (Try to have one of each class. PCs will almost certainly requisition custom models. Models for NPC can be pretty easily inferred)

Flame Blade (My custom spell+Casting Device. There's a reason the Jedi use Lightsabers. THEY WORK. This combination generally makes sense and you can expect Flame Daggers and Blades to be used by any self-respecting melee combatant capable of obtaining them. Makes Str a little less useful)

Transporter (Dimension Door or Teleport, usually with Enlarge on the Tapestry. Players to be transported must be in contact with the device. A tad costly, but saves a wizard.)

Basic Turret (Stat a turret with whatever offensive spells you like. You can then say that it's the "Basic Model" and use it on defense platforms, skyships, and walls alike. Scorching Ray, Fireball, Dispel Magic, lightning bolt, and magic missile ought to do ya. If you don't want costly 4/day and 5/day stones, just get multiples on the same turret.)

I leave these concepts open to interpretation. It's more fun that way.

[Welknair]

Quote from somewhere else that really should have gone here:



I've been thinking about cosmology a bit. Namely the fact that my system is capable of interplanetary travel. What if the Material Plane was pockets within the Astral Plane, which was physically around it (Space?). Hmm. How would that interact with Greater Teleport and Plane Shift?

Hey, two castings of Gate is cheaper than a single Greater Teleport scaled for a coloss-- Woops. This really should go on my homebrew thread.


I was thinking of course that Gate could be used instead of Greater Teleport as it would allow them to travel to the Astral Plane, then back to the Material Plane for 18 spell levels instead of around 200. Plus it would look much cooler, but require more time (albeit only a few more rounds). This should be considered whether or not one does funky stuff to the Astral Plane.

Hmm. I probably need to make some adjustments as to the cost of Gate for literally Colossal things, given that it doesn't state how large the Gate is. I could price it like Create Gravity... Hmm. 18 spell levels is so cheap as compared to the other systems... Then again D&D never really put much of a pricetag on the ability to move instantly around the multiverse. It could just be a system oddity...

Edit: Made an enhanced form of Gate. Apparently the normal version does have a max size...

[jojolagger]

Universal Recharger (to be attached to various devices. Mainly an Eternal Wand or two attached to a tapestry with an Easy Swap "Out" for hook-up with various devices.

schematic'd Battery+eternal wand, at various tiers.
A level:3 load battery+0th eternal wand (1960 gp) 1 level/day
B level:6 load battery+1st eternal wand (3820 gp) 2 levels/day
C level:12 Load battery+2nd eternal wand (10420 gp) 4 levels/day
D level:18 load battery+3rd eternal wand (28900 gp, no schematic) 6 levels/day
Cost per charge per day
A level: 1960 gp per charge/day
B level: 1910 gp per charge/day
C level: 2605 gp per charge/day
D level: 4817 gp per charge/day
All take 3 days to fully charge.

[Welknair]

schematic'd Battery+eternal wand, at various tiers.
A level:3 load battery+0th eternal wand (1960 gp) 1 level/day
B level:6 load battery+1st eternal wand (3820 gp) 2 levels/day
C level:12 Load battery+2nd eternal wand (10420 gp) 4 levels/day
D level:18 load battery+3rd eternal wand (28900 gp, no schematic) 6 levels/day
Cost per charge per day
A level: 1960 gp per charge/day
B level: 1910 gp per charge/day
C level: 2605 gp per charge/day
D level: 4817 gp per charge/day
All take 3 days to fully charge.


Interesting. I had figured something along the lines of lower level Eternal Wands being more efficient. Makes a sense of one kind or another, though I hadn't worked it out myself yet. It's also notable that the charger doesn't necessarily need a battery, the Energy Movement Principle means that you could just---

Wait, why use anything but a simple Eternal Wand as a recharger? You don't need a battery or a tapestry to---

Oh yeah, not everyone can use Eternal Wands. I keep forgetting that. Anyways, you could make compatible devices have an open ended "In" power line with an easy-swap end and attach the wand when you want to charge it. The Energy Movement Principle means that it would do the energy movement on it's own.

Either way, you don't really need a battery attached to the charger -- just an open end leading to the battery of the target device. This of course would require "Compatible Devices" to have a power tapestry set aside solely for the purpose of charging... an extra 5k (or 2.5k with a schematic) can hurt a bit...

Oh, and it's worth noting that using lower-level Eternal Wands is going to cost you more on Tapestries feeding the batteries, as each wand requires it's own end.

Edit: Wait, aren't Eternal Wands usable three times per day? That doesn't seem to jive with your charges/day numbers.

[jojolagger]

Interesting. I had figured something along the lines of lower level Eternal Wands being more efficient. Makes a sense of one kind or another, though I hadn't worked it out myself yet.
Yeah, level 1 wands are most effective.


It's also notable that the charger doesn't necessarily need a battery, the Energy Movement Principle means that you could just---

Wait, why use anything but a simple Eternal Wand as a recharger? You don't need a battery or a tapestry to---

Either way, you don't really need a battery attached to the charger

Assuming you're sure you'll spend every charge. Having the batteries allows you to charge even in downtime for the crafter the party will probably have.


Edit: Wait, aren't Eternal Wands usable three times per day? That doesn't seem to jive with your charges/day numbers.
:smallconfused: It's two, in both the ECS and the MiC.

[Welknair]

Assuming you're sure you'll spend every charge. Having the batteries allows you to charge even in downtime for the crafter the party will probably have.


Ah, so you included the batteries for "Roll over levels"? Makes sense.



:smallconfused: It's two, in both the ECS and the MiC.

Man, I could have sworn it was three! Looked it up and... two. I'll have to re-work a couple of my designs...

[Elfstone]

Ah, so you included the batteries for "Roll over levels"? Makes sense.



Man, I could have sworn it was three! Looked it up and... two. I'll have to re-work a couple of my designs...

I think you should play test this system. Just to see how it works, to make sure everything goes the way its supposed to. And to make sure there arent any loop holes so far. Maybe DM a game yourself if your up for it.

Will there be a class that focuses on manipulating tapestries? Like say, taking one and making it do something other than what its created for. A tinkerer of sorts?

[Welknair]

I think you should play test this system. Just to see how it works, to make sure everything goes the way its supposed to. And to make sure there arent any loop holes so far. Maybe DM a game yourself if your up for it.

Will there be a class that focuses on manipulating tapestries? Like say, taking one and making it do something other than what its created for. A tinkerer of sorts?

I'm introducing my players to the city originally mentioned soon, and the aforementioned Thuerge is saying "When can I get that feat?". Playtesting will come come soon...

I have been tossing around another couple of PrC ideas, and one Standard (to replace the Artificer which my system ignores). As far as "manipulating tapestries", you mean perhaps trapping, reversing, or other kinds of sabotage? I may be able to go off of that...

I have a few edits to make, probably tomorrow morning. Namely I'm considering increasing (or eliminating) the gp limit for schematic devices, as having them have monstrous gp costs makes the schematics take forever to make. I've got a deal of clarifying to make as well...

As for the charger: Currently the Charger, including a battery, would require two power tapestries, one "To", and one "From" the battery. Those alone are 10k minimum. Hence my wish to bump (or eliminate) the gp limit of schematics such to make those feasible.

[jojolagger]

I have a few edits to make, probably tomorrow morning. Namely I'm considering increasing (or eliminating) the gp limit for schematic devices, as having them have monstrous gp costs makes the schematics take forever to make. I've got a deal of clarifying to make as well...Making schematics requires a skill check with a dc equal to the cost of the item to automate divided by 1000. (10k item is DC 10, 20k item DC 20, 60k item DC 60) and requires 1 hour of work to complete per 250 gp of cost.
(40 hours, or 5 days@8/day for 10k; 80 hours, or 10 days@8/day for 20k; and 240 hours, or 30 days@8/day) Long time to make, Scales, might need a bit of tweaking.


As for the charger: Currently the Charger, including a battery, would require two power tapestries, one "To", and one "From" the battery. Those alone are 10k minimum. Hence my wish to bump (or eliminate) the gp limit of schematics such to make those feasible.
Boost the max connections a bit, and Allow cheap single line connections. (100 gp/CL).
The class B charger would be Wand----Battery--->(to device). It would need two CL 8 lines, and would cost 8420/4620, depending on presence of a Schematic.

[Welknair]

Making schematics requires a skill check with a dc equal to the cost of the item to automate divided by 1000. (10k item is DC 10, 20k item DC 20, 60k item DC 60) and requires 1 hour of work to complete per 250 gp of cost.
(40 hours, or 5 days@8/day for 10k; 80 hours, or 10 days@8/day for 20k; and 240 hours, or 30 days@8/day) Long time to make, Scales, might need a bit of tweaking.

My current system for pricing and creating Schematics is quite close to this (As I'm sure you've noticed). If I'm removing the gp cap (and now I'm thinking the size cap as well) a bit harsher of a scaling would be appropriate. Taking these numbers into consideration.




Boost the max connections a bit, and Allow cheap single line connections. (100 gp/CL).
The class B charger would be Wand----Battery--->(to device). It would need two CL 8 lines, and would cost 8420/4620, depending on presence of a Schematic.

Why would it require CL 8 lines? Two CL 5s would suffice. In both cases only two ends are needed and since we're assuming this is to feed into another battery, CL doesn't really matter.

I've been considering adding in a smaller (lower CL) tapestry for a bit. Namely one that only can move spell energy (whether from Power Wants to Move or Multiplication). It would mostly be an extraneous piece of wire, used exactly for circumstances such as this. Still thinking 500 gp, without changing the costs or ends of the rest. The rest of the numbers seem reasonable to me.

Edit: Made more edits, including adding the tiny utility tapestry and rejigerring the schematics system.


Hey, what if you had an eternal wand hooked up to a battery, and then the battery hooked to the eternal wand? With a couple of switches, you could have the gun power itself. For a first level wand, you'd be able to have any random person fire it 1/day... the battery would only need to hold a single level which would then Activate the Wand. That would pretty much be the bare minimum of a weapon.

[Welknair]

More edits, yadda yadda. I'm about ready to paraphrase my inspiration and move half of the second post to the first as to make room for more device ideas, an example skyship, and maybe another class or two.

Edit: In the first post I added a section from a possible campaign setting cosmology for this that I came up with. It's quite cool.

[Ralasha]

*nods* Lets see... you'll need Luca from Chrono Trigger... the Mana Fortress... Umm... Lavos... and... robots. Then your world will be complete. >.> And I'll make Glenn.

[Welknair]

Haven't seen you in a while! There's been a deal more fleshing out and random fixes. I appear to have reached the maximum for a single post...

[The Winter King]

Ive just thought of some thing. Say you had a tapestry with 5 connections, 1 in and 4 out and 5 batteries. You cast some spell, lets call it spell A, into the IN battery which then gains N charges where N equals the level of A. You then trigger the tapestry which casts some spell B that has a spell level equal to that of spell A on each granting N charges to the other 4 batteries. By rotating the batteries you have gained a potentially infinite amount of charge. Its like having a genie give you three wishes and always saving the last wish for three more wishes. Not that this is a problem, just an observation as I think this would explain how a city acquires all that power.:smallbiggrin:

In fact spell A could be a new spell just for this purpose

Charge Battery
Evocation [Magitech]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time:1 standard action
Range:Touch(see text)
Target:1 battery
Duration:Instantaneous (see text)
Saving Throw:Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance:None

The Battery touched gains one charge. This spell can be prepared and cast using a higher level slot as per the heighten spell metamagic feat except that the caster need not have the feat and this does not increase the casting time for spontaneous casters. If this spell is cast using a higher level slot make the following changes:

2nd level touched battery gains 2 charges

3rd level targeted battery gains 3 charges, range becomes close

4th level targeted battery gains 4 charges, you may choose to expend an additional spell slot as part of the casting and cause the battery to gain charges equal to the expended spell slot's level.

5th level targeted battery gains 5 charges, you may treat charged items, but not items with charges per day, as batteries for the purpose of targeting them with this spell but you only restore one charge per the max spell level of the item. For items without spells use caster level +1 divided by two as effective max spell level.

6th level targeted battery gains 6 charges, range becomes medium.

7th level targeted battery gains 7 charges, you may choose to expend up to two spell slots.

8th level targeted battery gains 8 charges, range becomes long

9th level targeted battery gains 12 charges, you may expend up to three spell slots when cast, and the battery regains 3hp per caster level.

[Welknair]

Huh. Hadn't really thought of that. So the basic idea is that you're using the Principle of Multiplication to charge batteries? I think that I should add a clarification that that doesn't really work (just as no sane DM would allow you to wish for wishes). Thanks for pointing that out.

[Ralasha]

Actually... it should, but only lets say... 1/2 charges to the other batteries. This will make it more like modern power generation when used in a cycling system.

I say this because in example: on a 4 battery system:
1st battery goes off: Other batteries at 1/2 charge
2nd batter goes off: 1st battery at 1/4 3rd and 4th at 3/4
3rd batter goes off: 1st batter is at 5/8ths, 2nd battery is at 3/8ths, 4th batter is at 1+1/8.
4th batter goes off: etc.

[Welknair]

Though a cool idea, I've already invested quite a bit in the whole "Eternal Wands are the primary chargers" thing. I did change the clause such that the Multiplication Principle instead causes the power to be dispersed evenly. I'd rather avoid devices that are more complicated than they need to be or are generally abuse-able. I don't have a cooldown period on the exchange of energy, so the transfer in a given setup would be dependent upon the rate of tapestry change. And then you figure out there isn't a limit to the number of tapestries that can be connected to any one battery, such that you can have all of them hooked up like this at once... What if you had a massive number of batteries all hooked up like this, then sold the charges, using the money to create more batteries and tapestries to hook them up? Exponential increase in power generation. Very cool, but a bit OP.

Edit: Considering adding rules for collisions. Still don't know where I'm going to stick the new stuff. As it is whenever I add a clarification I now need to take out some witty banter...

[Corrik]

Kudos good sir, I quite enjoy your ideas. I've had a character floating in my head for awhile now that I haven't been able to find a place for. You might have finally given him a home.

[Welknair]

Kudos good sir, I quite enjoy your ideas. I've had a character floating in my head for awhile now that I haven't been able to find a place for. You might have finally given him a home.

Glad you like it. :smallbiggrin:

[The Winter King]

Though a cool idea, I've already invested quite a bit in the whole "Eternal Wands are the primary chargers" thing. I did change the clause such that the Multiplication Principle instead causes the power to be dispersed evenly. I'd rather avoid devices that are more complicated than they need to be or are generally abuse-able. I don't have a cooldown period on the exchange of energy, so the transfer in a given setup would be dependent upon the rate of tapestry change. And then you figure out there isn't a limit to the number of tapestries that can be connected to any one battery, such that you can have all of them hooked up like this at once... What if you had a massive number of batteries all hooked up like this, then sold the charges, using the money to create more batteries and tapestries to hook them up? Exponential increase in power generation. Very cool, but a bit OP.

But even with that clause I can still do this by buying a couple runestones though.

Here's what I mean: The same set up as before but the batteries are not actually hooked up to the ends of the tapestry, instead there are runestones or runestaves or some thing that will cast a spell that can target or hit a battery. The trigger is pressed causing charge in battery A to be depleted by the cost of the energy to activate the rune stave/stone and deliver the spell casting it on the batteries and thus charging them because


Batteries store spell levels. You can easily cast a spell into a battery and it'll just add to the charge. A battery can only hold one kind of magic. Once depleted, either kind can be put in, but once it has a charge of one kind, the other is incompatible. Batteries are the most costly component in Magitech and as such they are highly prized. The only way to liberate energy from a Battery is to connect it to a tapestry of the correct type and have the tapestry then connect to a runestone or runestaff.

This is inevitable without major changes but its not so bad, it explains why a city could afford to let adventurers charge their gear for free which would make adventurers want to go there and while there they provide protection and a source of revenue for the city.

And a revised charge item spell

Charge Item
Evocation [Magitech]
Level: Sor/Wiz 0
Components: S
Casting Time:1 full round action
Range:Touch
Target:1 object touched
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw:Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance:None


This spell can be prepared in and cast from any spell slot available to the caster. It grants a battery a number of spell charges equal to the level of the spell slot used to cast this spell times two. Ths spell can also restore charges to other charged items (such as wands or staffs) as long as at least one charge remains. The amount of charges returned to these items are the number of spell charges restored to a battery by this spell divided by the highest spell level of the charged item times the number of charge to use that spell.
In addition you expend a number of additional spellslots equal to the spell level divided by three, none of which can have a level greater than the spell slot used to cast this spell, when casting this spell and add their levels to the total number of spell charges restored.

So to simplify
B = (2*L) + E
where B is the amount of charges a battery gains, L is the level of the spell slot used to cast charge item with 0 level spell as 1/2 a level, and E is the sum total of the extra spell slots expended.

W = B/M
where W is the amount of charges restored to a wand or staff, B is the amount of charges a battery gains, M is the highest level spell in the wand or staff that requires one charge to activate

[Welknair]

...


When a Tapestry is the target of a spell (as to Multiply it), it does not charge batteries attached. Batteries are charged from the flowing of ambiguous spell energy coming from a caster casting at the battery directly, or from said energy flowing into it from another magic item (or battery) in the form of ambiguous energy through a Tapestry. When you cast a spell at a Tapestry to Multiply it, it's not ambiguous.

I'll add another clarification...

Oh, and I finished rules for Skyships (and other vehicles (and other non-vehicles)) crashing into one another. You know the PCs would try it eventually. For some reason, it works for making bullets too. That's weird. I'll need to find room for it...

Edit: Moved the entire Feats section to the first post. Opened up a deal of room. Dumping more.

Editedit: Finished updates for now. Added in rules for collision as well as clarifying Create Thrust a deal (Stacks up to 12 times, multiplying speed by reducing weight of object only works down to 5lb). Also re-did the rules for taking damage when inside personnel craft. Thinking of making a Greater Amanuensis spell that can duplicate magic text...

Editeditedit: Made Greater Amanuensis. Feel free to start your Spell Book printing presses...

Oh, and I copied the "Devices you should have" list to the first post.

[Codemus]

So I finaly read everything. And wow, that is some pretty cool stuff. It seems like blast stone technology is to this like a M-16 is to a lazer rifle. :smallbiggrin: But it also looks like these could easily co-exist in the same game. I mean, blast stones do not share the same weaknesses as tapestries and batteries. They are mostly immune to dispel magic (depends on the weapon in question), are more easily mass produced at a cheaper cost (barring many schematics), and they do not need recharging only more blast stones and other ammunition.

I can easily envision the orcs of any game using these rules. Blazing away with their cruder and less refined blast stone weapons as they try to board a skyship using another skyship they hijacked. Orcish Skypirates. Brilliant.:smallbiggrin:

[Welknair]

Glad you liked it! And thanks to Activation, you can hook up a field of hidden Blast Stones to a Tapestry and remotely detonate them... or even hook up a sentient magic item to do the detonating.

My system is by no means simple, but it can be very useful under the right circumstances.

[The Winter King]

Whats the point of tapestries with more than 25 ends?

Can I make a tapestry and battery with psionics?

Could there be a way to convert spell energy from one type(arcane divine psionic) to another type?

For Create Thust's multiplication rule do you mean it stacks like two castings to one end for 120lbs/40ftper round?

For a thrust web- the spell is sent to up to 25 ends, could each end be a tapestry and thus deliver the spell to each of that tapestr's ends?

Your 5/day runestone is mispriced; it is the cost of a 4/day runestone( you calculated it as the amount above 3 factorial not 2 factorial, if it is the right price you need to change the formula to amount above 3 factorial)

How do you plan on generating power for a tarrasque class ship? The ships power requirements far out weigh any reliable or cost effective use of the methods I currently know of.
Also the more power you can store in batteries the heavier they are and the more energy you need. Can I target a battery with a spell but not have it gain charge but be affected by the spell's affects(for example I want to shrink a medium battery(125 cu ft needs CL63), or permanently light one up...can I?

When you cast spell energy into a battery, could I use a chained spell to charge multiple batterries.

Final question for now is... can I see an example ship?? Please:smallredface:

[radmelon]

Example mechs would also be nice. As it stands, the write-up could be clearer.

[Welknair]

1. I've been spending a deal of time designing cities and huge Skyships. They need the ends. Even hooking up a few hundred level 1 eternal wands is a huge end consumer.

2. I've said previously that you could adapt this system to psionics, though it was made for the base spell system. It would require a few adjustments...

3. I should make one, at least for Arcane to Divine, and vice-versa... I'll add some sort of Tranformer spell, though it would have to be at a serious cost as this would give Arcane casters the ability to channel their energy into Cure spells...

4. I meant that if you cast Create Thrust into a tapestry, it would cause each object attached to an Out end to be subject to the spell, multiplying the effect.

5. The ends which convey a Multiplication effect cause whatever is attached to them to be the subject of the effect. The Tapestries attached would start moving, instead of further multiplying the effect.

6. Well, one second... Hey, look at that. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll change that in a minute...

7. An Eternal Wand with a first level spell costs only 820 gold, for 2 spell levels/day. Given that the chassi is costing a few million, you can pretty quickly get the charge you need. Okay, with some basic numbers, we can assume a 45 ton skyship, including cargo. With 40 webs, we would get a decent speed. Assuming a Tapestry CL of 30, we already can go for 15 hours/day. Extend the Webs, and we can go non-stop. For actual power, 40*3=120 charges, for 30 hours of travel. I've been assuming most Tarrasque-Class ships would hold something on the order of 3 to 5 THOUSAND levels, refreshing that every day or two. Assuming that you weren't referring to thrust as a power consumption point, that leaves weapons, defensive functions, or basic operations. Before I go into detail on those, let's get our actual power output set. Let's say that we're spending a good 2 million gold on Eternal Wands, 5 million on batteries (5,000 max). Let's see, 2,000,000/820*2=... 4878 charges/day. And these numbers are reasonable given the Chasi is already around 13 million for a decent sized ship. So at 4878 charges/day, we can assume that between 120 and (120*12 max stack=)1440 charges are being spend on propulsion, that leaves 3438 charges for other functions. Displays can be made as Permanent Images, so we don't even need charges for those. Basic Diagnostic and Relays have a decent duration to not require that much... Weapons and abjurations are going to be your power hog. And still, with a few thousand levels, we should be fine.

Also keep in mind that the resident Wizards would likely be contributing their leftover spell levels to the batteries.

8. In a word, no. When you cast spell energy into a battery, you're not actually casting the spell, only conveying the energy. As such, the Chain effect wouldn't take place. Instead of shooting a fireball at a battery and it getting sucked up, you choose to target the battery and forgo the usual spell effects to charge the battery instead (likely looking like the wizard resting his hand on the battery and a red glow passing through his arm).

9. :smallsigh:

I really need to post a few. For now, I'll outline some basics. Let's assume the above ship to start. On top of that, let's say the dimensions are 100X100X200, which yields some basic numbers, including those for the chassi cost. For defensive systems, we would have a standard array of Shield, Resist Energy, and similar effects. Resist Energy would be our primary form of defense. Weapons would include scattered basic turrets throughout the vessel, probably around 20, each armed with a standard set of weapon spells (Scorching Ray, Fireball, Magic Missile, Dispel Magic, etc.), most of which would be in a single Runestaff, except for a few Runestones with lower-level spells for focused fire. (Four Scorching Ray Runestones all hooked to the same aiming mechanism for focused attacks!). Weapon systems would likely be powered by Maximize or Empower Tapestries, with a button in each turret area to enable the feature. The size of the ship is sufficient to hold the enormous batteries and the massive number of wands. Speaking of which, those would add up to around 2,500 wands. That's going to be 10 250 end tapestries, plus a few more to allow the wands to actually attach to our batteries. We would have Overload Protection cast on every battery, hopefully enough to prevent a catastrophic explosion... A number of contingent Repair Spells hooked up to Cognition Cores would quickly right any damage dealt to our vessel. The ship itself would likely field a crew of around 200 maximum, though you could make almost everything automated. Then throw in 10 or so Phoenix-Class fighters, and you got a decent force. If we wanted to, we could add on some Thrust Missiles that I described somewhere, in addition to various bombs and disabling devices. We have something like 5,000 lbs of cargo space mapped out in the speed. We would of course have a Runestaff containing Skyship Gate for quick movement between planes, and our Defensive Runestaff could also include Greater Teleport. The 200 crew would consist of around 20 mid-level wizards, 10 trained pilots, a few officers, a bunch of laymen, 25 or so gunners, a security crew of around 30 to 40, a bridge crew (Sulu go to warp!), a medical crew of 10 to 15, and so on. We can still fit them pretty easily. We could have a secondary battery which was somewhat smaller with it's own Eternal Wands for divine magic, allowing us to Create Food and Water pretty easily to feed the crew and power healing devices. Spell Resistance would invaluable as a defense mechanism, though it requires Divine Magic.

Not the most detailed, but it gives you a decent idea of what one would look like and generally work...

[Welknair]

Example mechs would also be nice. As it stands, the write-up could be clearer.

I feel Ninja'd.

Yeah, I really need to just do some good hard stats for at least one mech and skyship of each class. I also recognize that after all of these edits, the information is a little scattered... Any particular suggestions on making the "Write-up clearer"?

Edit: Fixed the 5/day runestone and added Arcane/Divine Transformation and Divine/Arcane Transformation.

Editedit: Further ideas on the Standard Class that would go with this. It would prepare it's spells, but it would always have access to it's entire spell list (as a Cleric). The magic would be Arcane. He would have access to the crafting feats at a much earlier level and would be treated as a CL of 5 or 7 for those feats until he reached those levels. He would have access to a large number of spells, but many he wouldn't actually be able to cast, he would only know how they work (as to make Runestones and Runestaves out of them). He would be able to spontaneously cast Repair Spells. He would likely be capable of learning spells from other classes (even divine ones) to make the appropriate Runestones/staves, though he would need to make a divine Eternal Wand or something else to power them as he himself still can only cast arcane spells. Name pending (don't want to steal Magitechnician, though this would make it obsolete...).

[radmelon]

I feel Ninja'd.

Yeah, I really need to just do some good hard stats for at least one mech and skyship of each class. I also recognize that after all of these edits, the information is a little scattered... Any particular suggestions on making the "Write-up clearer"?


AS it stands the mecha post simply says that mecha and robots can be made, with little to no details on the construction. As it stands, a little elaboration on the functions of the mechanics and armor, as well as how you pilot mecha.

[Welknair]

AS it stands the mecha post simply says that mecha and robots can be made, with little to no details on the construction. As it stands, a little elaboration on the functions of the mechanics and armor, as well as how you pilot mecha.

It hath been done! And I've added in the large Tarrasque-Class that I just described. :smallbiggrin:

[radmelon]

It hath been done! And I've added in the large Tarrasque-Class that I just described. :smallbiggrin:

So if I understand correctly, it is effectively a damage soak with a strength increase, as well as shielding (Shield, Protection from energy) and a cloaking device (Invisiblity) that runs of an internal battery with a limited generator (Eternal wands) that can only run until it's battery runs out. After that it requires "manual" charging. And it's hella expensive.

Did I get everything? :smallconfused:

[Welknair]

So if I understand correctly, it is effectively a damage soak with a strength increase, as well as shielding (Shield, Protection from energy) and a cloaking device (Invisiblity) that runs of an internal battery with a limited generator (Eternal wands) that can only run until it's battery runs out. After that it requires "manual" charging. And it's hella expensive.

Did I get everything? :smallconfused:

Well, that's a basic model. Most smaller craft (Whether Mech or Skyship) are meant for relatively short-term use due to the duration of their powering spells and the sizes of their batteries. The amount of soak awarded from one of these alone is quite significant, to the point where most mundane means can barely ding you. And of course none but the elites (And Adventurers) would have this type of thing.

I've also been juggling around some ideas for a modified Sizing property such that you could more easily store the thing when it ran out of power... Perhaps a specialized Bag of Holding type thing? :smallconfused:

Anyways, yes it's expensive. Yes it could give you a strength increase. Yes, it doesn't work for that long unless you have a monstrously high CL for the main tapestry. And yes, it allows your Barbarian to shoot lasers out of his eyes. I'm willing to bet PCs would buy it just for the last factor.

Something else I didn't include in that was the possibility of hooking up a Combat Prowess Sentient Magic Item to act as a targeting system, possibly giving you various other benefits.

Edit: And those spells are just ones that virtually any mech would have. Almost any made is customized, however, with whatever spells and functions the owner wished. You could add in pretty much any spell you wanted.

[radmelon]

Edit: And those spells are just ones that virtually any mech would have. Almost any made is customized, however, with whatever spells and functions the owner wished. You could add in pretty much any spell you wanted.

If nearly all mecha/robots/airships of any size/class have a cloaking device, it has a fairly strange impact on large-scale combat when any large space could have a giant tank or whatnot if you don't have an appropriate divination on hand. Just a world-building note.

[Welknair]

If nearly all mecha/robots/airships of any size/class have a cloaking device, it has a fairly strange impact on large-scale combat when any large space could have a giant tank or whatnot if you don't have an appropriate divination on hand. Just a world-building note.

Woops. Not any size. I included factors to scale the cost of spells like that. It would only be feasible for relatively small craft and for short durations at that. But that was a detail of the smallest mech that you can fit in...

[Welknair]

At long last, the Arcane Engineer is operational! (All save for his spell list, anyways). I'm sure it needs a deal of tweaking, but I like it. I foresee a barrage of "OP! OP!". Though the character could make a Runestone of any spell, he still needs an outside source of Divine spell levels to power Divine devices. And his spell list a much narrower, so his ability to make devices is his primary source of versatility, and at that he can only do so a couple times per day (If you want them to be of any strength...). Either way, I like the setup and it allows for players to fiddle around with the system to quite an extent. And it satisfies those pesky players that want to spend all of their time making magic items and then get frustrated that they can't cast the right spell for it.

Edit: Oh, and while I was at it, I expanded the description of Restrict such that it could restrict other Magitech functions, and I added Store Magitech Device.

[Welknair]

I'm considering making a modified version of the Eternal Wands - a group of magic items which are more efficient at producing magic charge, but without the capacity to cast that energy themselves (given that that feature is completely unused in this system). It could also fix the problem where first level Eternal Wands are most cost effective as far as cost/charge goes.

Edit: I feel like not quad-posting today. I have completely erased all but one mention of Eternal Wands from the system, replacing them with more efficient Charging Crystals. I also added Experience Capacitors, more specifics on Runestone setup, another level of Relay, the entire spell list for the Arcane Engineer (Speaking of which, I need another few 7th and 8th level spells I think, though I'm not sure what to give it. The theme doesn't lend itself to many spells of those levels... Suggestions?) and another couple I can't think of right now. Enjoy. :smallbiggrin:

Anybody still reading this, or am I talking to myself?

[endragor]

yes, someone still reading ^^
i followed the develop of all the sistem and i realy liked it!!
i tried to desing some simple device, just to see if i understood all corectly, and i found some difficulties...

ther is my first try, the lightsaber ^^

i'm assuming to build a LS for a mediun creature, so it's a small object.
for the tapestry we need a 2 end tapestry for 5k but tiny in size so it's +2k and a weight of three.
we have a CL of 5 for the ends and a cl of 7 for the size.

first question!! thees CL are for the creation of the tapestry or for the CL used to determinate the effect generate from a runeston ? or both?? i should use the higher one i suppose ? right ?

for the battery. we are preparing a battery for a 3° level spell, so i thought at a 6 charge battery. 6K. CL8 again is this CL for creation only right ? weight 15

and at last the runestone ! 3° lv spell, at 3 use/day is 3600. i didn't found the data on runestone weight or size so...

summing up we have a lightsaber with 6 max charge, 3 use a day of 7 round 1d8+7 longsword.
at a cost of 16600 and a weight of 18.
we can cut the cost in half with a CD 26 schematic reducing the cost at 8300
is this market cost or creation cost ??

and at last about charging cristal. i found that is impossible to incorporate one in such a small device so i didn't included one. i thought about adding a 2 end tapestry (one from one to) to the battery to have the option to attach a charging cristal in downtime in example while sleeping, to have the lightsaber charge for the next day, but trasporting a medium charging cristal seems too encumbering for me...
so no portable device with autocharge? is this intended ?

sorry if my english isn't so briliant but i'm not mothertoungue ^^
btw realy great job !!!!

[Welknair]

First of all, all the CLs are for creation, save for the CL of Power Tapestries which is both the CL of creation and that used for any spells it powers.

Also note that you can make a Colossal Tapestry which is CL 5. These numbers by no means have to match, the creator just needs to be the higher of the two CLs.

Runestones are Diminutive Size and about a pound.

For charging, you would likely have a single Diminutive Charging Crystal, but your main source of charge would be from an arcane caster in the party or plugging it into various charging stations scattered around more advanced cities. You can also circumvent the slow charge from Charging Crystals by having the battery in your device set to quick-swap and having a separate charger and a few batteries that your rotate through.

The number you get in the end is the Market Price.

It's a bit power-consumptive, but 1d8+7 damage ignoring armor? And always using Dex? That's a mighty powerful weapon.

But yeah, you seem to have the gist of it. :smallbiggrin:

[endragor]

sorry but i did'n get the CLb thing...
i've got two entries. one for the number of ends and one for the size. to build a tapresty i need to be of a cl of the higher of the two. wich also become the cl of my tapestry ??
it's obviously wrong if i could have a colossal CL 5....

help :P

[Welknair]

sorry but i did'n get the CLb thing...
i've got two entries. one for the number of ends and one for the size. to build a tapresty i need to be of a cl of the higher of the two. wich also become the cl of my tapestry ??
it's obviously wrong if i could have a colossal CL 5....

help :P

You need to have the higher of the two. The base cost of the tapestry is equal to the actual CL of the Tap X1000. You cannot make a Tapestry with a CL higher than you have. Then the size is just a price modifier on top of that base cost, and you cannot make certain sizes until your CL is high enough. The CLs of these two factors are unrelated save for you must have a CL equal to or greater than the higher of the two. You do not need to bump the CL of the Tapestry up to meet the CL required of the creator for the given size.

That make any sense?

[endragor]

ok, all clear now!! that'a a ton of sense ^^
maybe you should copy this explanation in the first post ^^ better wording than the actual text

[Welknair]

ok, all clear now!! that'a a ton of sense ^^
maybe you should copy this explanation in the first post ^^ better wording than the actual text

Added. :smallbiggrin:

'Nother round of updates coming are here!

Edit: Added Double Thick Hulls, changed max # of metamagic feats in a Tapestry, added Expand Spell Epic Level Metamagic feat, and fixed other various things.

Oh, and I have stats for another two Base Classes: Black-Ops and the New-Age Knight. Not sure whether or not I should post them...


I have a friend that wants me to contact Pathfinder about all of this and try to get a book deal. As part of that, he says I shouldn't post everything... Eh, when he gets turned down I'll post the other two.

[radmelon]

What are charging stones?

[The Winter King]

I love the charging crystals!!! Got enough dilithium:smallamused: But one question how much power do they restore?

[Welknair]

What are charging stones?

Now found in the Create Magitech section. If you read back a bit, I mentioned replacing Eternal Wands with another, more efficient source of power. Charging Stones generate energy periodically and are on the whole more efficient than massed level 1 EWs.


I love the charging crystals!!! Got enough dilithium:smallamused: But one question how much power do they restore?

I should say that somewhere... It's just 1 level per interval. You can do the math, if you like. More efficient than any Eternal Wand, and they get more efficient the larger they are.

[Welknair]

You guys know that Theurge I mentioned in the first post? Well I showed him this. And he loves it. :smallbiggrin:

We're planning on having him respec soon-ish to replace his Wizard levels with AE levels. Anyways, he baffled me yet again.

"Why not stick the wiring, batteries and other stuff in a Bag of Holding?"

...

*Face palm*

How did I not think of that??

I'm trying to decide what the ramifications of allowing that would be. Namely if the Bags were dispelled those components would be cut off, quite possibly injuring any parts (Or Tapestries) that were running through the opening... I'll need to contemplate it a bit more.

In the mean time, added clauses for Shrinking Magitech and edited the AE a bit.

[jojolagger]

"Why not stick the wiring, batteries and other stuff in a Bag of Holding?"

...

*Face palm*

How did I not think of that??

What are you talking about? get a ring gate, and have the wiring go through the gate. On the end you take with you, the magitech you use. On the end that stays behind, a big battery and a bunch of chargers.
Never mind, Bags of holding are more cost effective until epic.

[Welknair]

I'm trying to decide whether I should

A. Say that most large ships and cities use Bags of Holding to store their extraneous parts - even those that are still connected

or

B. Add a limiting factor saying that Chargers do not function in pocket dimensions and batteries find energy movement much more difficult (This would also affect Store Magitech Device, meaning that to have it charge itself you'd need to find a place to leave it out...)

Hmm. Oh, and I have another Metamagic Feat to add sometime... Piercing Spell. One slot adjustment and can only be applied to energy spells. The damage is no longer reduced when being done to inanimate objects. This would make piercing hulls a deal easier and doesn't seem too OP given that we already have Consecrate and Desecrate which would already do this half way in addition to completely removing the energy typing for that half (Thus making it un-absorbable by Resist Energy and the like...) So I think that this would be reasonable... Anywho, I think that that has been one of your shortest posts on this thread thusfar...

Edit: Oh, and to those random people who browse through here, I'd love to hear your opinions - even just a single post is nice. Do you think this is awesome or stupid? Then again, maybe I don't have random browsers...

[Amechra]

This looks quite nice. I'm currently waiting for those classes you mentioned.

This seems like it would be a nice basis for a mecha game. I especially like the Arcane Engineer, and his nice little feature that lets him kitbash magic items. Nothing better than developing a gun out of a pair of rocks and some string.

Can you please supply more rules for the Cognition Cores, though? Costs and the like. Unless I've been missing them.

Also, an idea: even lesser versions of Cognition Cores, with only a 2-3 intelligence, that could be taught 'tricks', a la the Handle Animal skill.

For example, teach the LCC to activate one of those Arcane Eye recording stations you mentioned whenever someone walks by, and to activate an Alarm runestone upon being attacked.

My two coppers.

[Welknair]

Why thank you! And you are quite right, the CCs didn't receive quite enough face time given how much I use them in my designs. I think I'll give them some more description and the LCC seems logical.

I also intend to stat basic mechanic systems, as those "Internal Mechanics" in the skyships and mechs such that they can be adapted to other systems, such as rube-goldberg type PC plans, factories, prosthetics, etc.

As for the other two, my friend is encouraging me not to post them in case he actually gets a response from Paizo for a book deal. I personally doubt that such a thing could happen and will post them in a week or so if no response is had.

[Welknair]

It hath been done! More information on both Lesser and Greater Cognition Cores, I redid the whole "Trigger" thing, added complete stats for all sorts of Mechanics, yadda yadda, added another spell (Detect Chemical Composition), added another couple spells to the AE spell list, added more info to Transit, and a few other things.

Oh, and I kinda... made an entire subsystem for various grafts complete with another ten unique magic items such as an Arcane Inhibitor or Neural Connector. I even account for bodies rejecting the parts and all that. I think I'll withhold it for now, until I know whether or not Paizo is going to turn down my friend... but it's there.

[Corrik]

Just want to again say how much I enjoy your work on this. I also wish you good luck with Paizo.

[Welknair]

Why thank you! I'm actively running through my options and copyright laws. I'm currently looking at using the Amazon CreateSpace Self-Publishing and getting both 3.5 and Pathfinder Compatibility Logos for it. As you may have read, I have quite a deal that I'm not posting here in case I actually manage to publish the thing. And I'm actually on board with it now, so this should be quite interesting.

Currently not included are:

Another two PrC's (Battle Technician and Bio-Druid)
Two more Base Classes (New-Age Knight and Black Ops)
An entire system for Biotech implants
More Worldbuilding info, including a layout of various tech-levels

And I'm actively trying to convert some Anime-Fangirls into Skyship Artists, with varying results.

Praying to Olidimarra. :smallbiggrin:

[endragor]

just some personal idea on the arcane engineer.
why the duration of his temporary crasft is so short ? when jury rig something it still need to be powered, so i think that they could last longer without adding much power to the class. at early level, when he can build only very basic device and for only 10 minute it's frustrating imho. and also his spell list is a good complement to his device, but when his daily craft point are gone, he don't have much to do with is spell.
if i'm going to playtst it i'll try with one hour per point invested, or something like adding 10 min for every previous pioint (the first point give you 10 min duration, the second add 20 min, for a total of 30, the thirt give 30, for a total of 60 and so on... )

also we have a good schematic rule. it could be good to add it to teporary craft.
for example if i have a schematic of a lightsaber that i build often, could be good to have some discount on craft point cost. for example i can make the schematic of my sword, calculating the DC based on the real price as usual, and then calculate how much point it takes to make such device, and subtract the discount.
that discount could be: a flat number -1? -2?
a flat number scaling with engineer level : -1 at firs level, -2 at fifth level and so on
the problem with flat is that small device benefit greater from this rule than huge 100 point device...

or we can have a dis**** rule in percentage like 2/3 or 4/5 of the cost.
alternatively or in adiction the discount can be based on how good the schematic is. if we beat the CD required for the schematic we have x discount, if we beat the cd by 2x we get more discount etc.

with this idea our party engeneer wil become faster without the need of prescious game session time waste in calculating, having the right schematic for the right situation. and if a strange or unpredictable situation apperar, screw the schematic and go jury rig improvised stuff ^^

and now, just to have a huge wot another idea ^^
this time on the general not on the specific engeneer class

i see how much difficult is to build handeled device, with so small batteries so i though about a new spell. i try to write it down clearly.

overcharge battery (too similar with overload.. but i did't found a better name)
level 3 spell
target: one touched battery
the touched battery gains a number of temporary charge point equal to the level of this spell * the battery size. (size as always from 1 of tiny to 8 of colossal) this spell can be prepared in higher spell slot freely.
thees temporary charge point decreas at the rythm of one every (10 min * liv of the spell)
drawback: the target battery loose one point of hardnes and one hit point from is maximum ( 20 and 20 iirc) that cannot be repaired untill the spell is in effect.

this spell allow thing like portable bazookas but are quite dangerous and prone to explode :P
ps: this spell only heighten the cap but not actualy give more power to the battery.

i hope it's all clear, sorry again for my bad enghlis (im' italian) and enjoy ^^

[Amechra]

Those actually look like good ideas; though there are spells that make materials harder/have more HP, so linking up the two could grab you a bunch of temporary charges on a Fine battery. Would take investment, though...

[Welknair]

First of all, I fully understand the AE's lack of outstanding combat-prowess. They're engineers, not Warmages. I do now have the stats for the Battle Technician which adds plenty of offensive and defensive capability, including adding some combat-oriented spells to their spell lists. For those that don't want to take a PrC, however, Rote Use allows you to select one of your rotes to add to your list for the day. Scorching Ray is a common choice and allows the AE to keep fighting even once out of TCP.

And what in the world are you making that you need for over 10 minutes? That's plenty for an encounter, and spending a few points should be enough for a suitable trap.

You are quite right - schematics should give a discount to TCP. My first thought would be at a 1/2 cost.

And once again, I've actually been intending to add a spell that temporarily increases the max cap of a battery. Perhaps "Increase"? :smallconfused:

Oh, and I've been spewing out PrC's. I now have:

Magitechnician
Bio-Druid
Battle Technician
Demolitions Expert (Did I just make the TF2 Demo Man?)
Master Gunman
Infiltrator
Magitech Sniper

And I'm currently working on the Pilot class.

On a side note, I've managed to dodge around Copyright problems and am currently typing up the last things I need before I start putting it into a single document.

If this actually made it into book-format, would you guys buy it?

Amechra, I don't think that would be a problem since the spell doesn't actually add charges, only room for them.

On that, I likely wouldn't have it cause damage, only reduce the hardness. But good ideas. I'll make sure to implement them in the next round of updates.

[endragor]

i intended to write the overcharge as usable only once on any given battery.

for the duration. if i have a device that last some hour i can use my spell to power it for the next encounter. if it last 10 minute it will be gone before the next combat. this is an issue only at low level however...
i calculated some duration and i thought this idea.
maybe it's seems good to me beaucose i like the idea of long lasting device the most, and improvising stuff only in need.

the idea is that. putting the duration at 5 min* previous application (5,15,30,50,60 and capping at 60 min per point spent). then (as a class feature or as a feat) if u reach the duration of 24h u can rend your temporary creaation semi permanent. when u recharge your temporary craft point u can chose to not recharge the point invested in the 24 h device, and let it exist another day at any distance in the same plane. in this manner u can place turret, traps etc an leave them behind. when u need your point back just let your semi permanet creation crumble.

for the book atm i'll buy it if it will be a cheap softcover book, but with all the addition expected it could become a full grown hardcover book, worth as all other of his race ^^^

hope it could help ^^
gl with it

[radmelon]

I would definitely buy it.

<edit> Spelling mistake fixed. Shouldn't post before 7 am.

[Welknair]

Why thank you! I am hoping that it shapes up into a full-grown book, fluff and all.

My current plan: Make it primarily 3.5 compatible with an accompanying logo. Then I can have a designated section for Pathfinder compatibility and the minute changes that need to be made. That could potentially allow me to qualify for a Pathfinder logo as well. I'm allowed to reference spells, classes, and items from other D&D books as long as I don't post any of the specifics and as long as I correctly cite all resources. Given that this system is very dependent upon the MIC and SC, I'd say in the Intro that they are pretty much required to use this. But those are main 3.5 supplements, so I don't think it would be much of a problem. However, it is the reason that I'm not going straight for entire Pathfinder compatibility...

I got a neat little list of edits to make, which I think I'll go about now... Thanks for all the support, guys. :smallsmile:

Edit: Edits done! Added the TCP discount for using schematics, added Increase, added another few spells to the AE's list as well as some additional skills, and I added costs for using TCP to make Hands and Feet (IE you can now do appendages). Wait, I need wheels and treads! ... Okay, added those. :smallsmile:

[Amechra]

If this ends up being pathfinder material, I'll probably wait and see it when it hits the SRD, if it ever does (your choice, man.)

'Cause I don't have the disposable monies for a hardcopy book.

[Welknair]

I E-mailed Pathfinder and they said that the most I could get would be a Compatibility Logo. I wouldn't actually be part of pathfinder, only "compatible" with it. I would maintain total rights as a result of that, but could still be considered under the Pathfinder umbrella for new players. I realize that the way things are going, D&D is splitting into Pathfinder and 4e. And I HATE 4e. And they don't have Vancian Casting or the basic list of spells which are essential for my system. As such, getting Pathfinder-Approved early would be a good idea. Or at least that's my current thinking.

And I'm considering leaving my current stuff up here, such that someone looking me up can get a good feel for what it's all about, even to the point where they can fool around and do some neat stuff with it. And if I know gamers, those that like it and can afford the full thing hopefully will. And of course the full version would include examples and fluff and additional classes...

[jojolagger]

I realize that the way things are going, D&D is splitting into Pathfinder and 4e.
Not exactly, Tome is also quite good. But yeah, D&D is diverging.


And I HATE 4e.
4.0 First system after Gray Gygax died, First system after Hasbro buying WotC.


And I'm considering leaving my current stuff up here, such that someone looking me up can get a good feel for what it's all about, even to the point where they can fool around and do some neat stuff with it. Here is the basics, which alone are awesome. There's some better stuff if you're interested and have the caps.


And if I know gamers, those that like it and can afford the full thing hopefully will. And of course the full version would include examples and fluff and additional classes...
Awesome-Check
Within budget- most likely check
Available in Canada-Unknown

[Welknair]

Do Canadians not use Amazon?

Edit: Oh, and I get to set the price on Amazon, within reasonable bounds given size and all that. I'm thinking the standard $30.00.

[jojolagger]

Do Canadians not use Amazon?
So long as it's .ca. Sometimes .com gives amazingly high shipping costs.



Edit: Oh, and I get to set the price on Amazon, within reasonable bounds given size and all that. I'm thinking the standard $30.00. I don't like spending money, but I can say it's a fair price. I'll be expecting cool goodies, like a map of a large spaceship, and a fair number of sample devices.

[Welknair]

I'm planning on having at least one example of every class of Skyship and Mech in addition to a basic array of personal devices. The map of a ship would likely be included as well, my artists willing.

I haven't posted it here, but I have an entire system of Biotech, with various implants and other devices. Arcane Inhibitors, Enchantment Defenders, direct plug-ins for Information (and power) tapestries, and the like.

I think there should be plenty of extra goodies to entice people to buy the book.

[Elfstone]

I realize that the way things are going, D&D is splitting into Pathfinder and 4e. And I HATE 4e.

If I want to play a video game, I will play a video game. If I want to play a minuatures game, I will use a different system. If I want to play dnd, I DONT want to play a video game or a minuature card game. I want to play dnd.

My response to 4e.


Also, great work. I probably did nothing to help during the process, but let me tell you, you have my full moral support. Have a cookie. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AvlLzS9PgjY/TMkT-faBSmI/AAAAAAAAA6w/w323ZkNgRx8/s1600/COOKIE.gif)

[Welknair]

:smallbiggrin:

Thank you! It's hard to keep track of who contributed what at this point without re-reading the entire thread, but I'm certain that one way or another anyone posting here has helped. For a little while there I was unsure as to whether or not this was a good idea or if anyone was even reading. And you guys helped remedy that. :smallsmile:

I'd love to keep hearing ideas and suggestions and I'll keep updating what I have up.

Ooh, book titles? My current one is "The Rise of Magitech", but I think it's not too good... Suggestions?

[radmelon]

I have a few:

Steel And Spell
Magipunk
Mind And Matter
Lords of Magitech
Land of Steel

[Elfstone]

Magic and Matter?
Magictech for the ages
The Tome of Magictech (this one sounded funny)
Complete Magitech (this one as well)
Magitechs Guide

[jojolagger]

I'm planning on having at least one example of every class of Skyship and Mech in addition to a basic array of personal devices. The map of a ship would likely be included as well, my artists willing.

I haven't posted it here, but I have an entire system of Biotech, with various implants and other devices. Arcane Inhibitors, Enchantment Defenders, direct plug-ins for Information (and power) tapestries, and the like.

I think there should be plenty of extra goodies to entice people to buy the book.
Damn it, where is the *drool* smiley when you need it.
Also Damn you, the book isn't out yet and I must have it.


Lords of Magitech
Hell's yes.

OR failing that,
Complete Artifice
Tome of Artifice

[Amechra]

Arcana Chained?
Artifice Unbound?
OMG, Mechs in my DnD? (Sorry, I had to.)
Schemata Arcanica?
Tome of Eldritch Schemas? (Actually, this one gave me a class/system idea...)

Oh, and a question; how does one go about getting the stamp of approval for the book from Paizo? And another question; who are you printing the books through? What are the costs?

(Sorry, but economic questions must be asked in this situation. Plus, I might want to follow in your footsteps. Because you are awesome.)

[Welknair]

All very cool names! Lords of Magitech is quite good...

As for the Compatibility Logo for Pathfinder, they have a neat little system where you apply for a Compatibility License, they read through a copy of your work and decide whether or not it's up to snuff. Then you get to put a little "Pathfinder Compatible" logo on it. Cost and royalty free. I found this by contacting a member of their staff (it's quite simple to find the contact page).

As for publishing, have you heard of Amazon Create Space? It's a system for self-publishing that allows you to submit I believe a .pdf and they have it made into a book, no money down. Said book then appears on the Amazon site if you search for it. The book isn't actually printed unless someone orders it and Amazon gets 60% of all proceedings, so it's a good deal for them and they lose no money if the book is a bust. Oh, and the author gets to set the price, within reasonable limits. It's all quite cool.

[Amechra]

I had not. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar for informing me of this.

[Welknair]

No problem. :smallsmile:

Man, I wonder why WotC never made anything like this... It seems like a natural evolution from standard D&D that allows for a far greater variety of campaign setting than "Just another medieval one"...

[jojolagger]

Man, I wonder why WotC never made anything like this... It seems like a natural evolution from standard D&D that allows for a far greater variety of campaign setting than "Just another medieval one"...

Because it requires thinking that's a bit more out of the box than normal fantasy writing.

[Person_Man]

I loves me some Magitech, and like many others have taken my turn on homebrewing a Magitech class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176276). Your work looks very interesting, and I applaud your devotion to the craft.

My only quibble is with the layout. If you're going to post something so long and detailed, then it helps readers to have it in a familiar, structured format.

For example, take a look at the Tome of Battle, which also presents a "new but not really that new" but elaborate set of material. Here's it's layout:

Table of Contents
Brief Fluff
List of key terms
Classes
New Skills and Feats
In depth explanation of new crunch (martial powers)
List of maneuvers and stances (organized into disciplines)
Prestige Classes
Magic Items
Monsters


In contrast, your work has this layout:

Explanation of why you're doing it
List of key terms
Fluff
Feats
Spells
Optimization Advice (old spells)
Magic Items
New-ish Skills
Crashing rules
Classes


You also have numerous digressions, side notes, comparisons, etc. In most cases it seems like you're making these in order to clarify, but due to the sheer volume of them it just throws the reader off.

I'll be honest in that this is a personal problem that I have - that I'm physically incapable of reading long blocks of text unless it flows well - and not a criticism of your material. So feel free to ignore me entirely.

But I feel that if you simply polish your work a little more, add a table of contents, reorder the contents to fit with the more classic format, remove the numerous digressions (or put them in the comments section or in a spoiler at the end of your work), that it may be a lot more accessible to other people like me.

Also, you may wish to read through Iron Kingdoms (http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms). It's the most comprehensive body of Magitech campaign material out there, and it's contributed greatly to my homewbrew campaign world.

[Welknair]

I get the distinct feeling you haven't read the rest of the thread, which is understandable given the length.

First of all, thank you.

Second, I'm making it into a full-fledged book. If you read just the rest of this page, you'll find plenty of information. The disorganization and digressions are due to me adding little my little and updating random parts pretty sporadically..

And I've already been linked to IK. :smallsmile:

So I'm making another couple PrCs and then I'm going to start re-typing all of this in a more organized and deliberate way to prep it for .pdf formatting. And I'm trying to get some friends of mine to do art, but I'm thinking it may be on the side of the Exalted 1e art in quality... Eh.

Edit: Yay! Ace Pilot and Servant of Progression are both done, as well as the Magitech Domain. That one was interesting because Pathfinder and 3.5 have very different standards and formats for Domain Granted Abilities, so I had to do two separate sets. Anyways, I once again have another round of updates to do, which I will hopefully get to shortly.

Oh, my current planned layout:

Introduction
Theory (Light fluff, including Principles)
Standard Classes
Application (Rule dump. Basics of Tapestries, runestones, etc.)
Vehicles and Machines (Rules for mechs, skyships, and mechanics)
New Skills and Feats
New Spells (Would also include my excerpt on old spells to remember/forget)
Biotech (Yeah, that's right.)
Prestige Classes
Examples (Dump of examples. Mechs, Skyships, and utility devices all go here)
World-Building (Section on how this impacts game worlds. And all that stuff)
Pathfinder Compatibility (Section on the few easy steps to take this into Pathfinder, including the alternate Magitech Domain)
Parting Thoughts

Not sure about the placement of the Examples or Biotech...

Edit: Edits made. Elaborated Diagnostics a bit, added that you need at least one rank in Pilot to pilot anything, added more information on Domain rotes, and some other stuff I can't remember.

[Welknair]

Added another round of fixes. Increased the rate of Schematic Production such that people can viably make them in under a few centuries, made rules for what happens if you mystically get a Tapestry which has a CL lower than 5 (as far as ends go), and explained the capabilities of CCs a bit more.

I also finished rules for Factories that make mundane items through mechanical means.

I was bored and decided to draw up some stuff for SMIs in Tapestry Constructs. Namely how they're kinda of like creatures in that situation. I ended up making a really weird system with the following basics:

Every year that a SMI exists, it accrues 100gp worth of "Progression" which can be used for various upgrades. When certain factors are met, the SMI can enter a "Path" which is somewhere between a PrC, Base Class, and one of my 0-level progressions. Each level in a Path requires 1000gp of Progression per level to be obtained (1000 for the 1st, 2000 for the 2nd, etc). At 5th level they unlock a "Further" which allows them to continue indefinitely expending Progress in that Path to gain various numerical benefits.

I've made two Paths: Sentience Ascendant and Sentience Mechanical. The first ends up becoming able to manifest outside of it's item and gains various cool effects, while the latter slowly melds with their Tapestry Construct until they become an actual creature, not unlike a Warforged. The idea for that one is that the Warforged are actually what happens when Sentience Mechanicals decide to try reproducing.

Both of these make SMIs actually useful in a party. The Sentience Mechanical ends up gaining full skill points, feats, ability scores, and the ability to gain Class Levels, at the cost of effectively a Racial HD and a +2 LA.

Really weird, but cool. I'm coming up with ideas for "Sentience Integral" which intertwines itself with Colossal vessels or cities.

[Amechra]

So basically, it develops its own super AI?

[Welknair]

So basically, it develops its own super AI?

I don't suppose you've ever picked up Exalted 2e? Namely the Alchemicals book? It's kind of like what happens when they turn into cities...

But yeah. They get super-AIs and start taking control of various systems, for good or for ill. Many wizards and arcane engineers try to induce this, with varying results. Their attempts to induce Sentience Mechanical resulted in the aforementioned Warforged.

Also note that I don't actually have the abilities for the Sentience Integral worked out yet. That one's still just a concept.

Ooh, have you seen the Star Trek NG episode "Emergence"? This allows for that to happen. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Oh Boccob, what have I done?! With this, SMI can gain class levels... including in Wizard or Arcane Engineer. Which would allow them to make new SMIs and new bodies for them. Sorry did I just make reproducing robots?

[endragor]

no news are good news??
how the work is going?

i'm probably starting a new pc and i'm going for the arcane engeneer. i just need
some more answer to be ready to start.

a random consideration. the arcane engeneer can create battery at no cost and (at high level) trasform them into powerfull bomb without the drawback of high cost of non- temporary battery. is this intended or not? im' not so good at balancing class and power but liv*3 d6 seem good, maybe too good to be balanced.

and i need a good example of a silent immage trigger/display.

for example i was studing the schematic of a dispel gun for my mech. it has 3 function: target, aoe, or counterspell mode. so the basic trigger wont work.

for the basic of the gun i need the usual battery-->trapestry-->runeston.

how the trigger work with that? i need a power line from the battery to a runestone of silent immage and then? a info line frome the runestone of silent immage to an advanced trigger (the one costing 500gp) between the battery and the runestone of dispell???
so my trigger require 1 spell level and then his runestone continue the concentration indefinetly?

battery--->trapestry--->advanced trigger----->runestone of dispell
|__>trapestry__stone of silent imm.__|

hope it's clear and right :P

other question ^^
a runestone that is concentrating on a spell do ever need a concentration check when it's damaged or so ?? if yes at wich bonus ?

ad a personal consideration ^^ the dc of a save by an effect of a trapestry use the minimum score needed to cast that spell. isn't it too low ? instead of directly increasing it could be cool to create a device that highten that dc and is linked to the runestone. or allowing the trapestry to "learn" spell focus or similar feats.

and on transit. i can see the use that a pc can do casting it by himself but i didn't uderstand the use of a runeston of this...

sorry for the huge number of question... this is the last ^^

a trapestry can be set to cast his spell on another trapestry, right ?
so if i get it i can, for example, attach a 5 end trap (1 in 4 out) to a battery.
in each of this out i can put another trapestry of the same tipe (1in 4 out) and multiply it again ? so 1 spell level can power 16 runestone of 1° liv ??
and can i do this unlimited time? i remember that somewere you said that this process can be made only onece as in the firs example. do this have any problem with the too much principle??

it's all for now^^
sorry for the bunch of question.
i hope that this is growing well :P
GL!


edit: maybe caould help some explenation on how disable device work with this sistem, for disabling magitech traps, or for the sneaky halfling saboteur climbing on your gargantuan mech to disable your targeting sistems :P
i hope that there is something more stylish than sneaky attaking the battery or the cognition cores :P

[Welknair]

Wow, that's quite a lot to read through.

First of all, I'm taking a quick brake now that I have pretty much everything worked out. I'm surprised that I haven't been coming up with my usual bout of bug fixes.

For the battery being used as a bomb... yes and no. Factors to consider: 1. You still need to fill it with your daily spell energy. Doable. 2. It uses your daily TCP. Still doable. 3. You need to through it accurately. Yeah, we can still do that. 4. Now what? You would need to cast Overload on it beforehand, I guess... Not to mention, it has a pretty large blast radius, enough such that unless you're a great shot and can get out of there quickly, you don't want to use too large of a bomb. But it is doable and is one of the AE's only offensive capabilities, save for Rote Use.

As for your nifty device, you have the right idea. However, simple devices such as that can usually suffice with just a knob or dial instead of a full-blown control panel. And if you're using something that complex, you can usually use Permanent Image. And don't forget that you can connect your Power taps there (As in, you only need one that attaches to all three).

For concentration, I considered adding a system to disrupt it, but decided against it as the function would rarely, if ever, be used and would be quite complicated or unnecessary. Disrupting is still possible however - Dispel the Tapestry or stab it with a Lead weapon...

You're right about the low DCs... I'll see what I can do to fix that. Perhaps a feat that works as a Metamagic for being put in a Tapestry, comes with the Craft Magitech feat, and significantly increases the DC for one school of spell? I'll work it out a bit more and add it.

Transit was an idea I originally had to for connecting tapestries, but since has changed a bit. It can still be used for that original purpose, but now only comes into play with absolutely enormous craft or cities that are already using Colossal Sized tapestries and using all of the ends on them such that they want to add more ends but the only way to do so is to add more tapestries. From there the easiest route is to connect the new to the old through the use of Transit to boost the power or signal. The other time it's used is on the very low-level end when you don't have enough ends to do what you want but are still high enough to want it to have that many functions. Your common mech or fighter-skyship likely would not have a Runestone of Transit included anywhere in there.

This multiplication idea has been brought up before, and I made a clarification to correct it. The basic idea is that the Principle of Multiplication only works with whole spells - not fragments. If I weren't so tired right now I'd go and quote myself for you. It should be found near the end of the paragraph on multiplying.

And once again, you have a point. Likely it would be an extension of the Rogue's ability to disarm magic traps. I'll add that bit in.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Welknair]

Hello all again! Made another couple of edits, namely Easy Swaps are now set as part of making a Tapestry rather than the casing, some more clarification on schematics, and a side note saying that simple devices do not need an Information Tapestry.

On non-posted work, I've done quite a bit. I made another four feats, two of which are metamagic, two of which allow common people to cast cantrips or orisons 3 times/day. And then I made a crud-load of new spells that seem sensible. "Clean" "Cook" "Bolster Spell" "Catalyze" "Peek" and "Preserve" are just a few.

Oh, and I cast Empowered Bump.

[endragor]

you should add the option to make the new easy swap with craft point. one temporary craft point for an easy swap should be enough. i don't know if it will be usefull, but it should be an option ^^

and for the schematic use, the part of the schematic shouldn't be held by an easy swap, but can i include an easy swap to the outside ?

like having a schematic of a gun with an easy swap for a charging cristal not included in the schematic?

[Welknair]

You are quite right. One minute.

Edit: Done. :smallsmile:

So along with all of the aforementioned stuff, I have calculated the minimum costs of the basic single-spell, single-use/day devices for levels 0-3. This means that you don't have to go through the price calculations every time. :smallbiggrin:

Oh... And: A large fan, in front of a metal apparatus composed primarily of a bunch of bars. You cast Animate Mechanics 2 or so on the fan, to get it whirring nicely, blowing air past the bars. Then you cast Chill Metal on the bars. Did I just invent Air Conditioning?

[endragor]

ninja allert XD

i edited my previous post after you read it^^ can u please answer it ?
thanks !!

anyway great work!! keep going :P

[Welknair]

Yeah, I should probably clarify that. You can include Easy-Swaps in a Schematic Device, just not connecting two parts of the same Schematic Device. Because then you could just take them apart without risk of breaking it, yielding two fully-functioning magic items at half the cost...