Alternate Spellcasting for 3.5

[wayfare]

A few months ago, I posted an idea for spellcasting that it think i am going to implement in my upcoming games. I turn to you, wise and mighty lords of the playground, to refine my ideas.

The hope is that these changes will bring mages and clerics down to tier 3.

Arcane Spellcasting

This is a fusion of two ideas from an earlier post.

1) Spells are capped by Spell Slots. In order to cast a spell, you must commit a number of Spell Slots equal to the spells level (a 5th level spell requires 5 slots).

1a) Full casters gain 2 spell slots each level. 2/3 casters receive 2 spell slots on odd levels and 1 spell slot on even levels. 1/2 casters receive 1 spell slot each level.

2) High attributes grant bonus spell slots as you level up.

Attribute Bonus
13: +1 slot at level 1
15: +1 slot at level 2
17: +1 slot at level 3
19: +1 slot at level 4
21: +1 slot at level 5
23: +1 slot at level 6

etc...

3) Level 0 Spells require no slots, and can be used at any time.

4) Spellcasting only goes up to level 8 for a full caster.

5) All wizards choose a school specialization at 1st level (abjuration, evocation, necromancy, etc). The wizard can learn up to 3rd level spells in any school, but may only progress up to 8th level spells in his chosen school.

Example: Jarek is a level 10 Diviner with 17 Intelligence. At the beginning of each day, Jarek has 23 available Spell Slots to fill (20 from his level and 3 from his high intelligence score.
Jarek is expecting to enter combat today, so he prepares 2 Fireball spells, a Scorching Ray, and 3 Magic Missiles. With 12 Slots remaining, Jarek decides to prepare Prying Eyes to scout for him, Locate Object, and 5 Identify spells to use on the loot his party is bound to recover.

Divine Spellcasters

1) Slot spellcasting, as above

2) The cleric class begins play with access to cure/inflict spells and 2 domains -- the cleric may only cast these spells (they effectively become the cleric spell list).
At level 6, 12, and 18 the Cleric gains access to an additional domain.

[Kamai]

This looks like a pretty good start, but remember that Conjuration and Transmutation are very heavy lifting schools, and even with a lot less slots, some mean stuff can be pulled off. At the same time, with so few spells, you'll find there for the casters to have less reason to buff the party, even if they're not the kind to break things, since there are so many less spells.

[IcarusWings]

Unfortunately it has some flaws. 9 1st-level spells do not equal 1 9th-level spell, the ratio of level:power is not 1:1. That's why psionics and the spell points variant both use levelx2-1

[wayfare]

The power ratio doesn't bother me as much, as i think this leads to a more flexible style of play. At 20th level, you can get off 5 level 8 spells a day from one school -- i'm sure its possible to break the game with that access, but its not easy.

As for conjuration, the orb spells have always confused me. Do they create actual elemental manifestations, and if so, are they subject to SR? In any event, would sticking to core for conjuration weaken it sufficiently?

[Kamai]

The thing that catches my attention is the SLAs of the outsiders on the higher SM lists. SMI is often used as a rogue replacement, and having large creatures that can fly or swim can replace those spells for short distances. Also, conjuration is already the goto for battlefield control. Conjuration is very good even without the orbs.

An amusing side-effect of this system is that you effectively ban even Limited Wish and Permanency (both being higher level universal spells, which you could only access by making Universal the primary school).

[wayfare]

The thing that catches my attention is the SLAs of the outsiders on the higher SM lists. SMI is often used as a rogue replacement, and having large creatures that can fly or swim can replace those spells for short distances. Also, conjuration is already the goto for battlefield control. Conjuration is very good even without the orbs.

An amusing side-effect of this system is that you effectively ban even Limited Wish and Permanency (both being higher level universal spells, which you could only access by making Universal the primary school).

Gotcha. Universal spells as part of every school.

Conjuration is good stuff, but i'm not certain how to reign it it without breaking it.

Would "you may only have 1 summoning, calling, and creation effect active at a time" help?

[wayfare]

A few other ideas:

1) All saves for spells would be (10 + 1/2 level + Attribute Modifier). This is to represent that the caster is getting better at casting spells as his career progresses.

2) Classes could use slots to power class features. For example, a paladin gets 1 slot each level, even though he doesn't get spellcasting until later in his career. He could use those slots to add uses of smite evil or lay on hands. This would be a function that is individualized for each class, not something that could be applied without thought.
For example, using the paladin above:

Smite Evil = 1 Slot adds 1 additional use per day

Lay On Hands = 1 Slot adds 1 effective level to determine lay on hands damage restored.

Turn Undead = 2 Slots adds 1 additional use (for clerics, one slot would add 1 additional use)

3) Any class that can cast spells has a caster level equal to the levels the character possesses in that class.

[Ziegander]

) All saves for spells would be (10 + 1/2 level + Attribute Modifier). This is to represent that the caster is getting better at casting spells as his career progresses.

This is very good, as when I read your idea I wanted to suggest that you give a way to boost saving throw DCs, but you beat me to it. I like this quite a lot.


2) Classes could use slots to power class features. For example, a paladin gets 1 slot each level, even though he doesn't get spellcasting until later in his career. He could use those slots to add uses of smite evil or lay on hands. This would be a function that is individualized for each class, not something that could be applied without thought.
For example, using the paladin above:

Smite Evil = 1 Slot adds 1 additional use per day

Lay On Hands = 1 Slot adds 1 effective level to determine lay on hands damage restored.

Turn Undead = 2 Slots adds 1 additional use (for clerics, one slot would add 1 additional use)

Seems pretty good, though why does the Cleric, who already Turns better than the Paladin and has more spell slots to burn get to traffic in Turn Undead for half price? Remember Divine Metamagic loves Turn Undead cheese and the Cleric can do that way better than the Paladin.


3) Any class that can cast spells has a caster level equal to the levels the character possesses in that class.

Also a good idea, though how do you determine how many spell slots a character gets per level? On a class by class basis? A Wizard or Cleric gets 2 per level, sure, and a Ranger or Paladin gets 1 per level, but what about a Bard? What about a Duskblade? Does a Factotum get spell slots per level?

Otherwise, this seems quite workable. The biggest problem with it was saving throw DCs of lower level spells being laughable, but with that change I could see this working quite well.

[wayfare]

Also a good idea, though how do you determine how many spell slots a character gets per level? On a class by class basis? A Wizard or Cleric gets 2 per level, sure, and a Ranger or Paladin gets 1 per level, but what about a Bard? What about a Duskblade? Does a Factotum get spell slots per level?

Otherwise, this seems quite workable. The biggest problem with it was saving throw DCs of lower level spells being laughable, but with that change I could see this working quite well.

Bards, Duskblades, and Factotums are a bit troublesome.

Bards would probably get 2 slots every odd level and 1 every even level. They might also have the option of slotting bardsong into spellslots.

Duskblades would also get the 2/1 progression -- the lack of 6th level spells makes up for the higher BaB.

Factotums...man, i just dont know. I'm willing to take suggestions, though.

So, does this take the full casters down to 2 or 3?

[Ziegander]

So, does this take the full casters down to 2 or 3?

Tier wise, I don't think anything changes. Technically. Theoretical optimization still says that the full casters can utterly unhinge the balance of the game. At the high end of practical optimization the full casters will still be able to perform their more dominant tricks (Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell, or Genesis Morphic Time for example).

But, in a more average game I think you'll find that this definitely neuters full casters at the levels they need neutered most and in a way that doesn't leave them without any options. It's quite elegant in that way. Mid to high level Wizards still have reality-altering power, but unless they are cheesing things out as hard as they can, they aren't able to use it willy-nilly without sacrificing utility for offenses and defenses. Of course, at the same time now they are able to use their lower level spells more often, and without worrying over enemies laughing off the saving throw of a Fireball or Tasha's Hideous Laughter.