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Oudthrinn
2011-01-11, 05:08 PM
Title says it all. If Leadership isn't the way to go, is there something else that allows me an Ooze "cohort"? No dips or PrCs.

Specifically, I'm looking to have a Living Spell for some form of healing spell.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-11, 05:10 PM
Title says it all. If Leadership isn't the way to go, is there something else that allows me an Ooze "cohort"? No dips or PrCs.

Specifically, I'm looking to have a Living Spell for some form of healing spell.

Sounds cheezy. I wouldn't allow it as a DM. If you can convince your DM to allow it, then you two should figure it out.

arguskos
2011-01-11, 05:11 PM
Title says it all. If Leadership isn't the way to go, is there something else that allows me an Ooze "cohort"? No dips or PrCs.

Specifically, I'm looking to have a Living Spell for some form of healing spell.
You want the Spell Sovereign, a PrC from Dragon Magazine #357 that gets Living Spells as familiars.

Oudthrinn
2011-01-11, 05:14 PM
You want the Spell Sovereign, a PrC from Dragon Magazine #357 that gets Living Spells as familiars.

Again, want to stay away from PrCs. Also, yes. I know it's cheezy. Never said it was for a campaign, just wanted to know if there was anything I didn't know of that could allow it by what's already been printed by WoTC (IE no dragon or dungeon magazine).

arguskos
2011-01-11, 05:16 PM
Again, want to stay away from PrCs. Also, yes. I know it's cheezy. Never said it was for a campaign, just wanted to know if there was anything I didn't know of that could allow it by what's already been printed by WoTC (IE no dragon or dungeon magazine).
There's no so-called "legitimate" way to do it, so I gave you the only working method.

The only other way I know of to get there is to use Ooze Puppet (SpC) to just hijack one and tool around with him, but it's non-permanent. If you can get Ooze Puppet at-will, that works.

Mark Hall
2011-01-11, 05:17 PM
As a DM, I'd probably say "You want an Ooze cohort? Really? Sure, spend a feat on it."

Oudthrinn
2011-01-11, 05:21 PM
There's no so-called "legitimate" way to do it, so I gave you the only working method.

The only other way I know of to get there is to use Ooze Puppet (SpC) to just hijack one and tool around with him, but it's non-permanent. If you can get Ooze Puppet at-will, that works.

I like the Ooze Puppet idea, will look further into that later. Is it possible to summon a living spell?

Trekkin
2011-01-11, 05:22 PM
My math on this is probably in error, but a wondrous item of 1/day ooze puppet should be 25,920 gp, no?

FelixG
2011-01-11, 05:26 PM
I would note that the section under leadership specifies that your cohort can be a monster of some kind with the GM permission and tells you how to make it work.

Oudthrinn
2011-01-11, 05:26 PM
My math on this is probably in error, but a wondrous item of 1/day ooze puppet should be 25,920 gp, no?

Actually, even better a wondrous item could permanently keep an ooze enslaved as long as it's "in use" for 66,000gp (132,000gp if not a slot item). One per day use would actually be 23,760gp, but unless you're not worried about Disjunction then it could be wasted money.

Oudthrinn
2011-01-11, 05:29 PM
I would note that the section under leadership specifies that your cohort can be a monster of some kind with the GM permission and tells you how to make it work.

I've heard mixed responses from this, one such response being that a creature can only be a cohort if it has a level adjustment (IE if it's level adjustment section only has a dash, it's not applicable). Nobody who's said that can give me any correlating evidence to their claim, meaning you would indeed be correct.

And all this is, again, aside from the fact that no sane GM should ever let this happen without good justification or a player that s/he feels comfortable in not abusing it.

Benly
2011-01-11, 05:29 PM
Slime domain gives you the ability to rebuke/command oozes, so it would let you take control of an ooze permanently if you had a good enough turning level.

Greenish
2011-01-11, 05:56 PM
Slime domain gives you the ability to rebuke/command oozes, so it would let you take control of an ooze permanently if you had a good enough turning level.You can grab the domain granted power with a feat too, but you'll have to work to boost that turning level.

mootoall
2011-01-11, 06:00 PM
I might be wrong, since I'm AFB, but doesn't the Rage Walker (ToB) give you something like this?

AslanCross
2011-01-11, 07:42 PM
I like the Ooze Puppet idea, will look further into that later. Is it possible to summon a living spell?

The only way I know to summon a Living Spell is to be a Mistling (Eberron: Forge of War), but that requires you to be Fey. The Living Spell ability of Mistlings basically turns the spell-like abilities (that the template also grants) into Living Spells.

It also turns you into an insane, gibbering mockery of your former fey glory.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105876.jpg

Thurbane
2011-01-11, 08:26 PM
As a DM, I'd probably say "You want an Ooze cohort? Really? Sure, spend a feat on it."
Yeah...maybe a modification of the Wild Cohort feat.

Callista
2011-01-11, 09:15 PM
Why do you want an ooze cohort? They have horrendous will saves and move really slowly... every time you travel overland you'll be limited by the ooze's speed. And they're mindless, so it's not like you could justify it as a pet and say, "Hey, it followed me home, can I keep it?"

(Maybe if you told us why you want an ooze as a cohort?...)

BobVosh
2011-01-11, 09:23 PM
Title says it all. If Leadership isn't the way to go, is there something else that allows me an Ooze "cohort"? No dips or PrCs.

Specifically, I'm looking to have a Living Spell for some form of healing spell.


Why do you want an ooze cohort? They have horrendous will saves and move really slowly... every time you travel overland you'll be limited by the ooze's speed. And they're mindless, so it's not like you could justify it as a pet and say, "Hey, it followed me home, can I keep it?"

(Maybe if you told us why you want an ooze as a cohort?...)

It is in the OP.

Is there an awaken spell for oozes? Maybe he can go for dominate on an awaken living spell.

Necroticplague
2011-01-11, 09:24 PM
Why do you want an ooze cohort? They have horrendous will saves and move really slowly... every time you travel overland you'll be limited by the ooze's speed. And they're mindless, so it's not like you could justify it as a pet and say, "Hey, it followed me home, can I keep it?"

(Maybe if you told us why you want an ooze as a cohort?...)

He already mentioned it, it's so he can have a living spell of a healing spell to help his group.

Turalisj
2011-01-11, 09:26 PM
As a DM, I'd probably say "You want an Ooze cohort? Really? Sure, spend a feat on it."

And then the ooze eats you in your sleep.

Jack_Simth
2011-01-11, 09:31 PM
Title says it all. If Leadership isn't the way to go, is there something else that allows me an Ooze "cohort"? No dips or PrCs.

Specifically, I'm looking to have a Living Spell for some form of healing spell.
Well, what resources do you have available? What's your Race/Class combo, how many feats do you have available to spend, how much available GP/XP do you have to burn on this, that sort of thing.

Callista
2011-01-11, 10:04 PM
Okay, that's it, I need to get some sleep... Think I just made myself look really silly.

(Why not just get a wand of cure light, though?)

mootoall
2011-01-11, 10:09 PM
You could find a ring of ooze riding ...

Akal Saris
2011-01-11, 10:09 PM
And then the ooze eats you in your sleep.

What a slimy DM!


Hrm, I feel like there should be more ways to get oozes as permanent pets. Thrall of Jubilex can summon a few, but not Living Spells.

What if you had a cohort (or...a pet mouse, or whatever), and then cast Polymorph Any Object on it and turned it into a Living Spell?

AtlanteanTroll
2011-01-11, 10:15 PM
If you cant get Ooze pets, why do I remember an Ooze Sadle from somewhere? :smallconfused:

Tael
2011-01-11, 10:15 PM
If your player ever asks for an ooze cohort, just make sure that he doesn't intend to use the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Callista
2011-01-11, 10:18 PM
If you cant get Ooze pets, why do I remember an Ooze Sadle from somewhere? :smallconfused:It's a ring... I think it's Arms and Equipment Guide, but I'm not sure. Basically a ring that lets you ride safely inside a gelatinous cube.

mootoall
2011-01-11, 10:18 PM
If your player ever asks for an ooze cohort, just make sure that he doesn't intend to use the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Only worthwhile part of that book ...

Turalisj
2011-01-11, 10:18 PM
If you cant get Ooze pets, why do I remember an Ooze Sadle from somewhere? :smallconfused:

I think that was in the 3.0 supplement Arms and Equipment Guidebook. It's the same one that had swords with mercury in the middle of them for extra impact power. :smallsigh:

mootoall
2011-01-11, 10:19 PM
You could find a ring of ooze riding ...

This was it.

AtlanteanTroll
2011-01-11, 10:22 PM
This was it.

OK then, but hwy does it exist if you cant have an Ooze pet?

Urpriest
2011-01-11, 10:27 PM
OK then, but hwy does it exist if you cant have an Ooze pet?

AFAIK it would work with the rules for purchasing monsters found in that book. Basically the ring lets you control and ooze that you've bought, but you've got no actual magical command over the thing beyond the power of the ring, and it really will eat you in your sleep if you leave it alone. And you need to find someone selling the ooze you want.

OracleofWuffing
2011-01-11, 10:36 PM
Unless there's an update to it, it's actually an amulet, not a ring.

The book says you don't control the ooze so much as bang on it internally and hope it moves in the right direction (no mechanics stated for this). And, as soon as you're "off the saddle" (read: outside of the ooze), the gelatinous cube will try to eat you.

Edit: Using the Gelatinous Cube and Amulet rules as a base, a CR 3 Living Spell as a mount with saddle as per A&E might eyeball for 30,000 to 35,000. This is heavily at the DM's discretion and not really RAW. Considering that a Living Glitterdust is CR 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ls/20061002a) and that its CR is based on the spell level and caster level, you're gonna want a pretty low level spell as a base. And yes, especially for creating a new thing, CR is even more dependent on DM.

Edit again: Uh... Come to think of it, being eaten by a Living [insert beneficial spell here] isn't really too big of a threat, is it? Then again, the amulet would likely prevent you from receiving beneficial spells from such a thing.

Oudthrinn
2011-01-12, 01:03 AM
Well, what resources do you have available? What's your Race/Class combo, how many feats do you have available to spend, how much available GP/XP do you have to burn on this, that sort of thing.

All resources published by WoTC (not Mongoose, not Paizo, etc), and again this isn't for a campaign. It's primarily for my own edification, though if it ends up being efficient enough to acquire I might use it in the campaign my Elf Crusader 1, Warblade 9, Eternal Blade 10 is in. He's a sword and board tank, taking advantage of his (lack of) diplomacy to "force" enemies to attack him. They hate him, so they want to kill him before the rest of the party. RP justification? "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!" Queue enemies attacking tank, now :)

Again, though... this was originally not meant for gameplay.

Darrin
2011-01-12, 01:45 PM
The primary stumbling block is the lack of an Int score. Mindless creatures generally can't become familiars/cohorts/animal companions (although there's a couple exceptions for vermin if you dig around a bit). Without an Int score, the Level Adjustment entry in the stat block becomes "-". Without an LA, you can't establish an ECL. If you can establish an LA, then you can calculate the ECL, and then you know when it can become a cohort.

There are a few ways to give an Int score to an ooze:

Awaken Ooze spell (Dragon #304). I can't recall exactly if this works the same way as the non-ooze Awaken, which increases HD and LA by +2.

Sentry Ooze template (Dungeonscape). Increases Int to 2 (animal intelligence) but does not mention or attempt to calculate a Level Adjustment.

Fiendish/Celestial/Pseudonatural template (MM/MM/Complete Arcane). Int becomes 3 (ooze now understands Common!). Used in this Elite Opponents article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a) to create a Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube. Fiendish/Celestial give an LA +2, which might not be a bad place to start. Pseudonatural doesn't give an LA, but doesn't give quite as many abilities, either.

Spell Sovereign (Dragon #357, mentioned previously) gains a living spell as a familiar. I'm not entirely sure how that works, though.

Some oozes are already intelligent: Summoning Ooze, Cesspit Ooze, Assassin Jelly. I think there's a Living Spell somewhere that has an Int score... Living Disintegrate, maybe? None of these have an LA listed, though.

Gelatinous template (Savage Species). Loses a bit too much to be practical, but can be added to any creature with an existing LA. You can add Intelligence back with Fiendish/Celestial/Pseudonatural, and then increase it a bit with other templates such as Spellwarped or Phrenic.

I used some similar template abuse to create a Spellwarped Dungeonbred Corrupted Sentry Ooze, which gave me a medium-sized Gelatinous Cube with 4HD, LA +3, and the ability scores:

Str 14, Dex 9, Con 34, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 9

I was considering treating it as an ECL 7, but I have no idea if that's balanced (I suspect not).

Once you have an ooze with an Int score, the DM would have to "eyeball" a Level Adjustment, maybe by comparing it to other creatures with a similar CR and abilities. If an ECL can be determined, then you can take it as a cohort.

Mark Hall
2011-01-12, 04:29 PM
Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube

Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

I honestly don't know how to respond to the existence of such a thing.

Turalisj
2011-01-12, 04:30 PM
How about-


Why.

Or

How.

Also- Half-Celestial Kobold warblade. :smallbiggrin:

Mark Hall
2011-01-12, 04:35 PM
How about-
Why.
Or
How.
Also- Half-Celestial Kobold warblade. :smallbiggrin:

I understand the "how"... all of the pieces make sense. And a half-celestial kobold warblade doesn't pose me nearly the problem as a ninja-kicking Jello Mold.

AtlanteanTroll
2011-01-12, 05:01 PM
Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

I honestly don't know how to respond to the existence of such a thing.

By reading the article?

Mark Hall
2011-01-12, 05:27 PM
By reading the article?

Nope. Still not gonna help. As soon as it enters my brain, an audio track singing "Everybody was kung-fu fightin'!" begins arguing with the people who insist that monks are a poor class choice.

Oudthrinn
2011-01-12, 05:38 PM
Nope. Still not gonna help. As soon as it enters my brain, an audio track singing "Everybody was kung-fu fightin'!" begins arguing with the people who insist that monks are a poor class choice.

Monks are a poor class choice. Wu Jen 13, Warblade 7 (or 14 and 6, doesn't matter which). Flurry of Blows (kinda, Dancing Mongoose ftw?) as a monk 4 levels lower than you (Supreme Unarmed Strike) as a colossal size creature (Giant's Size, which with Giant's Stance can net you colossal+ as per the epic level handbook). That will also still net you your choice of pretty much any race (goliath? Colossal++ for damage?), and at level 20 you've only expended 3 feats (so take improved natural weapon for colossal+++ for damage, now? :D)

Just to stay on topic, make him Gelatinus, as per the Savage Species :3

(poke holes in this if you'd like, I did it for the lawls. THE LAWLS I TELL YOU!!)

Edit: Oh, and I didn't spend a single gold piece doing any of that, either :P

OracleofWuffing
2011-01-12, 05:57 PM
Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

Fiendish Monk Gelatinous Cube.

I honestly don't know how to respond to the existence of such a thing.

We should try the Fiendish Unarmed Swordsage Gelatinous Cube.

Jack_Simth
2011-01-12, 06:34 PM
All resources published by WoTC (not Mongoose, not Paizo, etc), and again this isn't for a campaign. It's primarily for my own edification, though if it ends up being efficient enough to acquire I might use it in the campaign my Elf Crusader 1, Warblade 9, Eternal Blade 10 is in. He's a sword and board tank, taking advantage of his (lack of) diplomacy to "force" enemies to attack him. They hate him, so they want to kill him before the rest of the party. RP justification? "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!" Queue enemies attacking tank, now :)

Again, though... this was originally not meant for gameplay.
OK....

So ignoring the rest of the build...

The feat, Planar Touchstone (Cataloges of Enlightment(Ooze domain)) gets you the Ooze domain power. If you're using the specific Ooze domain you want, this lets you Rebuke/Command Oozes as an Evil cleric Rebukes/Commands undead.

Planar Touchstone is in page 41 of the Planar Handbook; Cataloges of Enlightenment, page 166. The Ooze domain you want is in Feindish Codex I, page 89.

You've got a spot of a problem, though:
1) Turning/Rebuking relies on your effective cleric level
2) Neither the Planar Touchstone feat description (Planar Handbook, page 41), nor the Planar Touchstone section header (Planar Handbook, page 153), nor the Catalogs of Enlightenment site description (Planar Handbook, page 166), specify what your effective level is for purposes of level-dependent benefits.
3) In D&D, 'Undefined' is not always the same thing as 0, so you may not be able to add to it!

So when running this by your DM, you've got three basic, likely cases for how your DM will rule it:
1) Effective Cleric Level = (Effective) Character Level, as you're not even remotely required to be a Cleric to pick it up. This is the best case scenario, as it means you now only need to find a suitable Living Spell of 1/2 your level or lower to Command (well, once you get your Planar Touchstone link item and spend the 10 xp, anyway). This is also a fairly likely scenario, based around extrapolating off of what the Catalogs of Enlightenment say on the Higher-Order ability for use of the domain spell.
2) Effective Cleric Level = 0, as you don't have any levels in Cleric. This is a barely-workable scenario, and will require a fairly hefty investment to make function. Essentially, you need to look up a turning guide, and use several tricks to get your effective cleric level for purposes of Rebuking Oozes up to twice the hit dice of your target ooze. Then you need to *find* your target ooze.
3) Effective Cleric Level = nonability. This one is kinda insurmountable, other than talking to your DM. It's also something of a jerk move, as it means there's a rather lot of options on the Catalogs of Enlightenment that are rather useless.